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View Full Version : This mess has nothing to do with consoles



Psychotext
22nd Nov 2003, 12:07
Ok, a few people might disagree with me on this. Don't flame me (I much prefer reasoned and thought out arguments) but here's my feelings on the issue.

If you look at the aspects that people are complaining about you will notice that only really one thing can be attributed to building a console and PC game. The interface (This includes things like atm and security hacking). Yes, I agree 100%. This was obviously designed for a television and a controller rather than a keyboard. My point is this; there a hundreds of multiplatform games that manage to make the interface accessible on consoles and PCs (Take Max Payne, Rainbow Six 3). The simple point here is that corners were cut and Ion Storm simply threw the interface over to the PC version. Arguably more of a resources problem than a PC problem.

The other issues that I think have nothing to do with the game being put on a console:


Skills - I think they've probably just moved away from this because your agent should be pretty hot from day one
Locational based damage - Arguably this is still in, but it needs some serious tweaking. Again, can't blame the console for this as there are hundreds of console fps that rely on this technology
Floaty feeling - Think this is just poor configuration for the pc right now. We have found the settings and I'm sure we'll work out how to tune it all in.
Leaning - Give me a break, this is integral to a modern fps let alone a game like DX or thief where stealth is an advantage. Again, plenty of console games out there with this.
Unified ammo - You really can't blame this on consoles. People try to call consolers stupid but I really think they can work out different ammo types. This was just a gameplay decision (They probably didn't want to spend the time balancing the ammo types throughout the game)
Idiot NPCs - If I shoot someone in the face I want them to either die or come after me. I don’t care if I'm playing on a console or not.


I can't remember all the issues but if anybody can come up with one outside of the interface that can be attributed to a console design then I would love to discuss it.

(Oh and just for reference. I have been playing PC games since about 1988. I didn't get my first console until 2001 and now I have all three of the major players. I do believe that certain games work better on consoles, but I also believe you should design the interface to the platform. On a completely unrelated note - Look at Tiger Woods Golf on the PC vs. Xbox. Completely different games and I think with good reason.)

Psychotext
22nd Nov 2003, 12:13
I meant to list some games that didn't suffer dumbing down because of multiplatform. Off hand I can think of Splinter Cell, Rainbow Six and Ghost Recon. These are off the top of my head, there are many more.

Agent D
22nd Nov 2003, 12:18
Um, I believe Rainbow Six and Ghost Recon were originally PC games, with the console versions coming out afterwards. I do agree with most of what you're saying though, except two possibilities:

Lack of leaning could come from the console controller, and would probably be awkward to use on an XBox.

Now, this second one, *probably not* but it's possible that location damage isn't emphasized because of the 720x483 resolution for TVs. Most likely it was just a poor development decision, but it could have something to do with it.

Psychotext
22nd Nov 2003, 12:35
I dont know about that. Playing something like splinter cell or rainbow six I have no problem shooting someone in the head (On a TV) but apparently the devs have now said that locational damage is in, it's just not tuned very well.

Anyway, leaning certainly isn't that hard to manage on the xbox controller. For a start you could always click the left thumstick to put it into lean mode. There would be other ways too. I agree though, It might confuse some gamers (Though most Xbox owners tend to be hardcore gamers anyway).

I think what I was trying to get at regarding those games is that even though they had complicated interfaces and were deep games, they were still picked up in huge numbers by the console gamers. (Meaning surely console gamers can handle a little more complication)

nimbus
22nd Nov 2003, 22:15
Originally posted by Psychotext
I dont know about that. Playing something like splinter cell or rainbow six I have no problem shooting someone in the head (On a TV) but apparently the devs have now said that locational damage is in, it's just not tuned very well.

Anyway, leaning certainly isn't that hard to manage on the xbox controller. For a start you could always click the left thumstick to put it into lean mode. There would be other ways too. I agree though, It might confuse some gamers (Though most Xbox owners tend to be hardcore gamers anyway).

I think what I was trying to get at regarding those games is that even though they had complicated interfaces and were deep games, they were still picked up in huge numbers by the console gamers. (Meaning surely console gamers can handle a little more complication)


Aside for your semi-patronizing last remark about Xbox gamers, I completely agree (We're not retards, you know, some of us are just poor. I was once a hardcore computer gamer until life got in the way.)

But most of the people on this board must be very young or only have played games for about two years, not to know about Metal Gear, Halo, Dead to Rights, Max Payne, Perfect Dark, Goldeneye. I mean, C'MON FOLKS!!! Those last two games were from the friggin' N64! and there was certainly leaning, there was certainly locational damage, different weapons, different ammo types, and a decent user interface. This was in 1997, on a CONSOLE-ONLY game.

All I'm saying is STOP BLAMING THE XBOX. I am going to buy this game on Xbox, and let me tell you, this is not a PC game that has a lot of flaws because it was ported from the Xbox; this is a PC AND Xbox game that simply has a lot of flaws. Yes even on Xbox.

Don't think even for one second that because I'm an Xbox gamer, I don't give a **** about leaning, skills, interface, or any of the things that have been brought up lately. I deserve all those things too, you know, and we already know that it can easily be done on console.

/rant off

Psychotext
22nd Nov 2003, 22:51
My intention wasn't to be patronising, sorry it came off that way. Please bear in mind I also consider myself a console gamer and am im no way elitist.

Glad to see I'm not the only one with these views though.

Agent D
22nd Nov 2003, 23:03
For what it's worth, I only blame about 10% of the demo problems on the XBox. The abysmall inventory screen, and gigantic fonts.

The rest of the stuff is just poor design decisions in an attempt to "appeal to a wider audience". :rolleyes:

F3nyx
22nd Nov 2003, 23:44
I think the problem lies with the design team's attempt to make the interface as slick and intuitive as possible - something you can jump into without having played games much before. In all, an attempt to smooth out the learning curve. However, it isn't working. Unless the game utterly lacks depth, there'll be some learning to do.

Huntress
23rd Nov 2003, 02:30
http://www.ionstorm.com/forum/viewthread.asp?forum=AMB_AP619612110&id=34880

However, some guys over at IoS have been messing around in the files and found some changes that can be edited from the Xbox controls (that were left in our demo) to be more like the PC version for controls, HUD, etc. :) So check it out and if you want to play around a bit to see what you can do to make the demo better then give it a shot :) Ta and Good Hunting!