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Pequachino
22nd Nov 2003, 04:40
ion storm works hard on a game trying to approach the level of greatness in its predecessor and does a decent job, and u stab them in the eyes with a rusty knife...

ive seen threats against the developers, ive seen whiney little nerds complaining, and ive seen people acting as if their entire world collapsed just becaused they disliked a demo

1. its a freakin game, get a reality grip
2. ur blowing everything out of proportion, alot of people liked the demo.
3. ur not even giving this game a chance to see if some of ur concerns are addressed in the final release, do u actually WANT this game to fail?!
4. i enjoyed this demo, and can't wait till this game comes out, ur complaints are minor and ur attitude toward the whole experience has probably ruined it for others...

Hybrid_Xeno
22nd Nov 2003, 04:55
In current society if you are to spend $50 on this title and you find out that the game isnt as advertised are you entitled to a refund?

Ha, pc software is 95% you buy and you eat it, cause theres a no return policy.

Therefore for you to tell hard working Americans that thier $50 they work for and most dont even make $10 and they have to sit in a job they hate for 5+ hours so they can get ripped off by a generic over rated pc title. Is asking way to much...

I myself am a loan officer so I make more than average, but I still dont feel $50 for a half baked title is comendable....The demo is supposed to be a representation oif the final build....The fact that they released an early build doesnt make me say "Oh thats ok ill take a chance with my $50 and get ripped"........RELEASE A CURRENT DEMO AND PROVE US NAY SAYERS WRONG OR STFU

Jesus, P.I.
22nd Nov 2003, 04:59
Originally posted by Pequachino
ion storm works hard on a game trying to approach the level of greatness in its predecessor and does a decent job, and u stab them in the eyes with a rusty knife...

No, we are merely pointing out what we percieve as significant flaws of the game. Our criticism is sharp mostly because we realize what a great game this could have been.


Originally posted by Pequachino
ive seen threats against the developers, ive seen whiney little nerds complaining, and ive seen people acting as if their entire world collapsed just becaused they disliked a demo

I do not condone threats against the developers, in fact in my poll thread I said this explicitly, mostly because it is hard to take someone seriously who makes empty threats. I have seen people complaining, but in my mind most of their complaints are more than justified. What I have not seen is people acting like their entire world has collapsed. Can you give me some posts to support your claim?


Originally posted by Pequachino
1. its a freakin game, get a reality grip

Come on, admit it. You're right down with us in the debate. Does your position in the said debate somehow make you more mature?


Originally posted by Pequachino
2. ur blowing everything out of proportion, alot of people liked the demo.

A lot of people liked the demo. A lot of people did not. Why should the people who did not be singled out and told not to express their opinions? I could use your logic and say that people who disagree with me should shut up, but I do not, because I am genuinely interested in their opinions.


Originally posted by Pequachino
3. ur not even giving this game a chance to see if some of ur concerns are addressed in the final release, do u actually WANT this game to fail?!

While I hold out hope that AI and combat issues will be addressed in the final release, I am unwilling to trust Ion Storm to do this on their own. I feel obligated to help push them toward polishing their game.


Originally posted by Pequachino
4. i enjoyed this demo, and can't wait till this game comes out, ur complaints are minor and ur attitude toward the whole experience has probably ruined it for others...

For some of us, actually playing the demo is the thing that influences our attitudes. And are our complains really minor? Superficially, the whole localized body damage issue may seem superficial, but it has disturbing implications for any possible stealth that can be employed. The ability to plan an approach and efficiently eliminate enemies quietly seems to have been dashed against the rocks.

Trust me, I wanted nothing more than to like this game, but I have played the demo and I think there are fundamental problems that collectively are enough to ruin the game. You need to accept the same fact that Ion Storm needs to accept: that many of the people who were waiting for this game expect more than what they are getting.

Pequachino
22nd Nov 2003, 05:00
ever notice the disclaimers on basically all demos, that this is not final and does NOT represent the final product? i dunno what demos uve been playing...

and america isn't the only country in the world u pompous ass****

Pequachino
22nd Nov 2003, 05:03
well jesus pi when u talk like that its acceptable but some of the other complaints ive been seeing are so immature, insulting and nitpicky and are why i made this post, i dont mind other peoples opinions, just those who express themselves like a drunken ass

Jesus, P.I.
22nd Nov 2003, 05:05
Originally posted by Pequachino
ever notice the disclaimers on basically all demos, that this is not final and does NOT represent the final product? i dunno what demos uve been playing...

and america isn't the only country in the world u pompous ass****

I agree with you that demos are not always representations of the final build. And I have no doubt that certain technical flaws in the game will be hammered out before release. I am a bit more skeptical about the developers repairing gameplay elements such as hacking and combat.

And you are right. America is indeed not the only country in the world; never has been. Thank you for pointing this out for all of us.

Jesus, P.I.
22nd Nov 2003, 05:06
Originally posted by Pequachino
well jesus pi when u talk like that its acceptable but some of the other complaints ive been seeing are so immature, insulting and nitpicky and are why i made this post, i dont mind other peoples opinions, just those who express themselves like a drunken ass

I hear ya, people on both sides are guilty of this, however. But here at Eidos forums it is an intellectual discussion compared to what is happening at Ion Storm forums. :D

The Glome
22nd Nov 2003, 05:07
I think Jesus P.I made perfect sense - if you can't find any truth in his argument, then you're in denial. I, for one, will stay optimistic till the end. The only problem with that is if in fact DX2 is a failure, then i'll feel ten times worse than the rest of you. :D

Pequachino
22nd Nov 2003, 05:08
thats prolly where most of my frustration stems from i was just @ those forums...is it just me or is it damn rude to say **** you ionstorm on their freakin website! i mean jesus (no pun intended) people its not like they worked hard for 3 years just to try and piss off the fanbase! u act like this was intentional.

Agent D
22nd Nov 2003, 05:14
Originally posted by Pequachino
so immature, insulting and nitpicky and are why i made this post, i dont mind other peoples opinions, just those who express themselves like a drunken ass

No offense, but that's kind of the impression I got from this thread. I do appreciate that Ion Storm spent lots of time and money on this game, but I'm certainly allowed to mention it if I think they brutally massacred almost everything I like about the original game. I have no problems with any of the bugs in the demo, like the part where I phased through the floor and fell off the level, those can be fixed. Unfortunately, I don't think the inventory, weapon damage, and combat systems are "bugs". In this area, the demo is representational of the final gameplay, seeing as it's scheduled for release in a couple weeks..

Pequachino
22nd Nov 2003, 05:16
again im not arguing that u dont have a right to voice ur opinion, or that the demo is without its problems, but i just dont see the need for some people, not namely you, that feel the need to express themselves in a manner similar to verbally pissing in ionstorm's face..

Stormwraith
22nd Nov 2003, 05:19
Originally posted by Jesus, P.I.
I agree with you that demos are not always representations of the final build. And I have no doubt that certain technical flaws in the game will be hammered out before release. I am a bit more skeptical about the developers repairing gameplay elements such as hacking and combat.

I'm sure that this weak headshot thing won't be part of the final game. I'm betting that if it wasn't fixed before, it's going to get fixed now.

-J-

dirigimaster
22nd Nov 2003, 05:23
Originally posted by Pequachino
ion storm works hard on a game trying to approach the level of greatness in its predecessor and does a decent job, and u stab them in the eyes with a rusty knife...

ive seen threats against the developers, ive seen whiney little nerds complaining, and ive seen people acting as if their entire world collapsed just becaused they disliked a demo

1. its a freakin game, get a reality grip
2. ur blowing everything out of proportion, alot of people liked the demo.
3. ur not even giving this game a chance to see if some of ur concerns are addressed in the final release, do u actually WANT this game to fail?!
4. i enjoyed this demo, and can't wait till this game comes out, ur complaints are minor and ur attitude toward the whole experience has probably ruined it for others...

I actually enjoyed the demo, even with some of its MINOR bugs. I think I've nearly exausted nearly every piece of dialogue as well.

Pequachino
22nd Nov 2003, 05:26
apparentally im not alone, BlumenKohl's post on ion's forums has a similar notion of mine and quite the following..
http://www.ionstorm.com/forum/viewthread.asp?forum=AMB_AP619612110&id=34680

Jesus, P.I.
22nd Nov 2003, 05:27
Originally posted by Stormwraith
I'm sure that this weak headshot thing won't be part of the final game. I'm betting that if it wasn't fixed before, it's going to get fixed now.

-J-

If indeed you are right, I may even be able to look past the game's otehr flaws and enjoy it greatly. Call me a moron if you like, but for me the whole headshot is the single biggest problem. If indeed they do institute the possibility for one-shot pistol kills, I will be a happy, but more importantly, stealthy man. :cool:

I can only hope :(

Zhanate
22nd Nov 2003, 13:46
Originally posted by Pequachino
i enjoyed this demo, and can't wait till this game comes out, ur complaints are minor and ur attitude toward the whole experience has probably ruined it for others...

It's ruined the forums for now; it's won't ruin the game unless you let it, though it does dampen the party atmosphere.

Thanks for the link to BlumenKohl's thread. He said a lot of what I was thinking. Particularly this, commenting on things such as 'No leaning, no locational damage, unified ammo, auto-everything,' which someone else brought up:

BlumenKohl wrote: "Those things didn't make Deus Ex. They never did, they never will. The story, immersion, and freedom of choice did"

I do understand the complaints that no one-shot kills really damages the stealth option (though I don't care about the locational damage from the health viewpoint.) But the rest of the things just don't have much significance to me.

Of course people have a right to their opinions. Apparently a lot of these fans are FPS hardcores who can only appreciate a game if it meets all the latest technical-graphics standards and gameplay tweaks. That's their thing, fine.

The things people are complaining about may be true, but to me, as BlumenKohl said, that's not what Deus Ex is about. Their extensive lists of facts that are supposed to show the new game is bad don't prove anything to me.

Or to put a new twist on an old saying, 'Never let the facts interfere with a good story.'

Mr.Shroom
22nd Nov 2003, 13:53
I'm with Zhanate on this one. While I may not be thrilled with some of what I've seen (weak stun prod, no conversational logs, notes, blah), I ALSO realize that I'm only seeing a VERY small part of a much larger whole. And I'm having quite a bit of fun with the little bit I do have, honest-to-gawd gripes aside.

Lets give it time. I mean, we only saw a tiny bit and alot of people are *****ing. Several respected and un-corperate owned game reviewers have gotten their paws on the 99% done version and LOVED IT.

So I'm a wee bit inclined to at LEAST wait for the game to ACTUALLY come OUT. :)

tas42
22nd Nov 2003, 14:12
thought the demo was great, but the minimal amount of damage done by weapons is a concern. however, i think we need to keep in mind that we haven't got to use the sniper riffle yet, or most of the mods.