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SK Denton
22nd Nov 2003, 04:26
Cast your vote!

Breadman
22nd Nov 2003, 05:16
It's worse than I was expecting, but better than most people are actually saying. So I just said that I liked it fine =P

Agent D
22nd Nov 2003, 05:18
Well, for lack of a better option, I voted "hated it". However, I don't hate the game really, I just hate what they did to it. It plays like a bad console port (the interface) and they removed everything about the combat that made the first game great. Dumbed down is the exact way to describe it unfortunately.

Sci
22nd Nov 2003, 05:25
Invisible War is a great game that shot itself in the foot with a lot of bad decisions.

dirigimaster
22nd Nov 2003, 05:30
Originally posted by Sci
Invisible War is a great game that shot itself in the foot with a lot of bad decisions.

Yeah, totally.. For a game that hasn't come out

ThorsHamburger
22nd Nov 2003, 06:04
I think alot of 15 year old console gamers will think it's 'sweet". :rolleyes:

El Padrino
22nd Nov 2003, 06:48
I like it. It has some major problems (no, not unified ammo), at least in the demo; but so did the first Deus Ex.

Dr. Lobotomy
22nd Nov 2003, 06:53
Originally posted by Sci
Invisible War is a great game that shot itself in the foot with a lot of bad decisions.

Seeing that there's no more localized damage, the foot is as critical as the brain.

Makes you think...

Viking
22nd Nov 2003, 07:29
Haha, that was funny.

Anyway, SK Denton, I guess you have the right to gloat, and say "I told you so" for the months that you have been reminding us again and again that the game is dumbed down. You were right. Once again, we are reminded that money is everything. ****ing tragedy, I say. I'm going back to play Deus Ex 1, this isn't worth my time.

PointlesS
22nd Nov 2003, 07:32
I really love the game actually...I can't wait till it's released...

Viking
22nd Nov 2003, 07:59
I hope they burn all copies of it. Sorry, just thinking outloud.

Darkhelm
22nd Nov 2003, 08:01
Originally posted by Viking
I hope they burn all copies of it. Sorry, just thinking outloud.

You obviously work for Valve. Dream on, punk. :rolleyes:

HOTLEAD
22nd Nov 2003, 09:04
From what ive seen in the demo i HATE it but im going to hold final judgement until i play the final version. If there wasnt the enthralling story element i wouldnt even consider buying it.

Viking
22nd Nov 2003, 09:32
You obviously work for Valve. Dream on, punk.
My final conclusion is: *drumroll* You're an idiot.

Anyway, I don't much care if the story elements are indeed very good, because if a game makes you want to kick your computer down the stairs every five minutes, it's still going to be bad. The "less important" elements, as the silly optimists call them, may not make the game stand out much, but they're there, with the player, constantly. If they suck, like they do in "DX:IW", the player gets frustrated, and makes an assasination attemp on Warren Spector. Good job, Ion Storm. Hope you die in fire.

ABRAXAAS
22nd Nov 2003, 09:41
Originally posted by Viking
My final conclusion is: *drumroll* You're an idiot.

Anyway, I don't much care if the story elements are indeed very good, because if a game makes you want to kick your computer down the stairs every five minutes, it's still going to be bad. The "less important" elements, as the silly optimists call them, may not make the game stand out much, but they're there, with the player, constantly. If they suck, like they do in "DX:IW", the player gets frustrated, and makes an assasination attemp on Warren Spector. Good job, Ion Storm. Hope you die in fire.


WOW there are truly some retarded people here, going as far as wishing death upon the creators. you sir are sickening.

Sir-William
22nd Nov 2003, 10:07
Good point Viking.
Are you trying to kill them in a pain full way if so just replace there drink with Acid and thay will die i much pain or fill there swiming pool but thats a bit sick.
i think that you shoud be able to judge a game by the demo so you can test it. For i think its a form of advertisement of the game so that peple that were not sure of buying the game can sort of have a test play and as i see for a lot of posts i'a right for a lot of peple have formed new opinion on the game.

sorry for the gramma.

ABRAXAAS
22nd Nov 2003, 10:09
so far it seems pretty split down the middle, but yet only the winers are posting :( somebody needs there blanky.

SK Denton
22nd Nov 2003, 10:31
Originally posted by ABRAXAAS
so far it seems pretty split down the middle, but yet only the winers are posting :( somebody needs there blanky.

And aren't you whining about the whiners?

Hypocrisy at it's best.

ABRAXAAS
22nd Nov 2003, 10:32
Originally posted by SK Denton
And aren't you whining about the whiners?

Hypocrisy at it's best.

yes i am the essence if hypocricy ;)

Prohass
22nd Nov 2003, 10:39
For all the horn-tooting going on about the problems of the demo being the fault of console devolpment, would I be at least somewhat correct in saying that the faults are actually just DX1's faults, aged and accentuated?

Bear with me on this, but to me the faults of the demo were basically the same kind of things that were wrong with the original, and that time has simply aged them horribly.

Merovingi
22nd Nov 2003, 10:42
It's "meh"..

I've gone through demo more than 20 times now and I'm really used to how it feels and generall plays. Deep down it really does feel like Deus Ex but it's hard to get around the flaws that are so obviously present.

It's quite obvious that the game was "held back" because of the Xbox version (control wise).

The interface is not very comfortable or efficient. That includes the inventory, skills system, biomod system, and even the menus. Having to reach over and hit enter is an example of bad design. It's just... out of place.

The font size is just plain pathetic for a PC game... the least they could have done was modify it for the PC version so it feels more comfortable. Seriously, the least they could have done was modify the ENTIRE interface/ui so that it feels right on the PC.

I don't mind the HUD.. in fact, I like the HUD (it makes the HUD feel a bit more "realistic" but that's just a personal preference. They could've easily kept the HUD the way it is now and still made the rest of the interfaces PC-like.

Performance wise I'm good to go. I never had any problems with low FPS or choppiness but I've been tweaking anyway (tweaking the .ini files). Now the game runs flawless at 1024x768 with all settings up.

The graphics are decent - especially the shadows/lighting. The textures seem a bit weak but I can deal with that. The models and animation are very DX like (clunky and unlife-like) but the skins look pretty good on those guard's armor.

This demo didn't do much for me. The best part about Deus Ex is the Storyline, immersion in that storyline, and the character interaction. As far as I'm concerned the demo didn't even touch on that.

I'm still going to buy the game because the storyline and immersion looks promising.

My impressions of the preview demo: 6/10.
Compared to DX and whether or not it did well: 5/10 - need that Storyline.

Mr.Shroom
22nd Nov 2003, 13:49
Yaknow what REALLY made it feel iffy? The fact that we quite honestly had NO clue what was going on...and yet, were apparently acting on choices we had already made.

Story is a BIG part of the Deus Ex saga. I think once we sit down with the final game, and load up that first mission...it'll be Deus Ex for everyone. Who am I, who do I want to be? Who REALLY are these people? What should I do?

So don't jump the gun people. At least wait for the final version to come out and get a few magazine\website reviews. :) Heck, the 99% done version has been gone over by a few, and they seem blown away! We're honestly complaining about pretty much ONE LEVEL of a multilevel, all encompassing EPIC STORY.

Heck, if someone had just shown me one or two paragraphs from 'The Lord of the Rings' rather than a whole chapter, I'd probably think it sucks too. :)

tas42
22nd Nov 2003, 14:26
Originally posted by HOTLEAD
From what ive seen in the demo i HATE it but im going to hold final judgement until i play the final version. If there wasnt the enthralling story element i wouldnt even consider buying it.

try playing it a couple of times. it definitly takes some getting used to. not to sugarcoat anthing either, this demo had some problems. but, i'm sure many of them will now be addresses.

Amorpheus
22nd Nov 2003, 16:10
I think they should have released the demo after the full game, so people would get into it slowly and don't get slapped silly with all the changes to their holy grail at once.

bobk
22nd Nov 2003, 19:17
Originally posted by Prohass
For all the horn-tooting going on about the problems of the demo being the fault of console devolpment, would I be at least somewhat correct in saying that the faults are actually just DX1's faults, aged and accentuated?

Bear with me on this, but to me the faults of the demo were basically the same kind of things that were wrong with the original, and that time has simply aged them horribly.

One of my criticisms of the original was having to play at
low res and still have bad frame rates when the game first
came out. I probably had a 1Ghz P3 and a GeForce2 back then. Now I have a P4 2.4ghz with 512M DDR and a TI4200 and my main criticism again is having to play low res to get any descent
frame rates. I like the gameplay though.

HOTLEAD
22nd Nov 2003, 21:54
Originally posted by tas42
try playing it a couple of times. it definitly takes some getting used to. not to sugarcoat anthing either, this demo had some problems. but, i'm sure many of them will now be addresses.


I've played through many times and for many hours...

toksic
22nd Nov 2003, 22:26
The truth is. I am still going to buy it for PC, but this is a huge, huge disappointment. Yes, a build for xbox and PC could potentially double sales, but why do it with one of the greatest pc games ever.....Unless the final build can address all the problems we see in this demo, sales are gonna suck.....way to go you bunch of idiots....Didnt that pile of garbage Halo for PC tell you anything? CONSOLE PORTS DO NOT WORK>>>>
Man it sucks to be a gamer today.

F3nyx
22nd Nov 2003, 23:28
For all the horn-tooting going on about the problems of the demo being the fault of console devolpment, would I be at least somewhat correct in saying that the faults are actually just DX1's faults, aged and accentuated?Not for me. While Deus Ex didn't have a really exceptional combat system, it had a functional one, where a 10mm slug was capable of a lethal headshot, and huge jolts of electricity incapacitated people instead of making them boogie.

I think the flaws are of a pretty different nature from those of the original, but there might be some truth in what you're saying, at least in a few areas.

PellaeonSZ
23rd Nov 2003, 01:09
Disappointed.

dx1fan
23rd Nov 2003, 02:54
I was expecting a more complex and immersive game than dx1 was...and dx2 is not it.Seems more like a rushed fps with a story and some options primarily written for the console to me.On the plus side it will make an acceptable bargain bin title in a few months.

SK Denton
23rd Nov 2003, 04:34
Originally posted by toksic
The truth is. I am still going to buy it for PC, but this is a huge, huge disappointment. Yes, a build for xbox and PC could potentially double sales, but why do it with one of the greatest pc games ever.....Unless the final build can address all the problems we see in this demo, sales are gonna suck.....way to go you bunch of idiots....Didnt that pile of garbage Halo for PC tell you anything? CONSOLE PORTS DO NOT WORK>>>>
Man it sucks to be a gamer today.


No offence, but it is that kind of attitude that makes game developers make crappier and crappier games.

If you buy a game no matter how bad it is what kind of message are you sending to the developer? If they know you are going to buy it no matter what why should they put any more effort into it than they have to?

Companies only understand one language - MONEY. We can complain all we want on forums all across the net, but if we don't send them a message with our money then we haven't spoken at all.

Roquefort
23rd Nov 2003, 04:42
what concerns me is that if we compare the point of a demo to the point of a movie advert then we should expect to be seeing snippets of it's greatest points. It should be selling itself with its strengths. It should be flogging it's kill, sneak, bribe etc.

But the demo is seriously weak. I hope it's just a bad advert for a good film if you will.:confused:

Prohass
23rd Nov 2003, 08:30
Actually the gaming industry survives on the fact that people buy games no matter what. EA games anyone? Endless sims addons anyone? Those are the games that sell the most, yet they are in most respects, utter trash.

The gaming industry is kept afloat by the sheer mass of products it creates, which is why good games are so rare, some fall into the grey area, I think thats whats happened to DX2.

darklightning
23rd Nov 2003, 08:41
Quite honestly, the changes in the game aren't all that serious when you really look at it. Granted there are a few annoying issues, but the demo is barely enough to even get an idea of the full game. I have no doubt that the full game, playing from the beginning, will probably be a lot better than we think it will be. I guess we'll have to wait and see, but I think people are overraccting about nothing. what if people didn't know it was consolized, I have to wonder how much knowing it affected how they saw it. With a few patches to clear up some minor issues, and a few major ones like the inventory system and menus, I think that it will be an awesome game.

I guess we'll have to wait and see though.

Baloon
23rd Nov 2003, 11:48
100% hate it.

Baloon
23rd Nov 2003, 11:55
First off I must say that I am a huge DX fan. DXI is one of my favourite games really high.
But I hate the demo. Well not as much the demo as the gameplay.

-INVENTORY: The inventory has been... massacred. In DXI there was the strategic placement of weapons, here it's a simplified arcade inventory for consoles (Xbox....). This is a MAJOR turnoff. What is the matter with the old one? It was perfect to me.

-HACKING: Childishly easy. Not to mention made for consoles (only use directional keys + enter). Wheres the username and password from DXI? Also the ATMs? Wheres the hacking time left line? Damn, this is tottaly off.

-GRAPHICS+PHYSICS: SUPERB, but some texturs are really ugly.

-INTERFACE: Again, massacred. The one from DXI where you could access the inventory, augs, logs, pics sectiones from one place in GREAT. This one is crap.

-DYNAMIC CROSSHAIR: Ouch! Feels like Im playing some cheap arcade shooter. I can run around, jump and Ill still hit the guy. Ouch!

-BODY PARTS (WHEN DAMAGED): I dont know why you took that away it was nice. You lose a leg, you crawl. Headshot - you die.
Here - nothing. Oh and I once shot that woman in the HEAD from POINT BLANK range and she DIDNT die. OUCH!

-UNIVERSAL AMMO: WHAT??? Flamethrower and pistol? Shotgun and SMG? This is just funny. It was great when you could take different ammo types in DXI reload them. Here... nothing!

-MUSIC: I like the theme in the main menu.

-EXP. POINTS: Where are they? They were an essential part of the original game!!!

-AUGS: Not even a aug interface. No comment.

-MULTITOOLS FOR HACKING WOODEN DOORS: That made me laugh.

This demo reaaaaly dissapointed me. You cant deny that you massacred the gamesystem for Xbox and sales. It clearly visible that this game is made for Xbox and then emulated for PC not the other way around. I think its sad, selling out like this. The DeusEx series got all the hardcore fans cause of the features which are taken out of DXII and thats sad. I can see that this game will be nothing more that an arcade-console shooter with some tactics in it. I feel sad cause of that. I am a big DX fan but now I feel like I am betrayed. I spoke to many HC DeusEx fans and they are ALL dissapointed as well as many ppl on various forums. Thanks, but no thanks Warren Spector.


MY 2 CENTS FROM WHAT DO YOU THINK BOUT THE DEMO POLL.

Roquefort
23rd Nov 2003, 15:15
Baloon basically sums it all up really.
However, i just played through it again and I do feel something exciting in it - but i think it's just reminiscing with how good DX1 was. Essentially I think because of the intricate combination of gaming genres DX2 like it's predecessor will be good but there are ridiculous problems, as baloon highlighted, which are seemingly unecessary stumbling blocks. I mean, how can you NOT put in headshots for chrissakes? It's ion storm that are shooting themselves in the foot, not just us shooting saks.:(

Baloon
23rd Nov 2003, 16:57
Originally posted by Roquefort
Baloon basically sums it all up really.
However, i just played through it again and I do feel something exciting in it - but i think it's just reminiscing with how good DX1 was. Essentially I think because of the intricate combination of gaming genres DX2 like it's predecessor will be good but there are ridiculous problems, as baloon highlighted, which are seemingly unecessary stumbling blocks. I mean, how can you NOT put in headshots for chrissakes? It's ion storm that are shooting themselves in the foot, not just us shooting saks.:(

I agree. SOME DXI charm is still there. Too bad most of it is shot off.

SK Denton
23rd Nov 2003, 19:31
Originally posted by Prohass
Actually the gaming industry survives on the fact that people buy games no matter what. EA games anyone? Endless sims addons anyone? Those are the games that sell the most, yet they are in most respects, utter trash.

The gaming industry is kept afloat by the sheer mass of products it creates, which is why good games are so rare, some fall into the grey area, I think thats whats happened to DX2.

That is why we need to make a statement with our money and convince IS that they made a big mistake. Deus Ex is a masterpiece and we can't let them get away with this. :mad:

Baloon
23rd Nov 2003, 19:44
Originally posted by SK Denton
That is why we need to make a statement with our money and convince IS that they made a big mistake. Deus Ex is a masterpiece and we can't let them get away with this. :mad:

Here here!

SlicerAce
23rd Nov 2003, 20:42
Originally posted by Merovingi
It's "meh"..

I've gone through demo more than 20 times now and I'm really used to how it feels and generall plays. Deep down it really does feel like Deus Ex but it's hard to get around the flaws that are so obviously present.

It's quite obvious that the game was "held back" because of the Xbox version (control wise).

The interface is not very comfortable or efficient. That includes the inventory, skills system, biomod system, and even the menus. Having to reach over and hit enter is an example of bad design. It's just... out of place.

The font size is just plain pathetic for a PC game... the least they could have done was modify it for the PC version so it feels more comfortable. Seriously, the least they could have done was modify the ENTIRE interface/ui so that it feels right on the PC.

I don't mind the HUD.. in fact, I like the HUD (it makes the HUD feel a bit more "realistic" but that's just a personal preference. They could've easily kept the HUD the way it is now and still made the rest of the interfaces PC-like.

Performance wise I'm good to go. I never had any problems with low FPS or choppiness but I've been tweaking anyway (tweaking the .ini files). Now the game runs flawless at 1024x768 with all settings up.

The graphics are decent - especially the shadows/lighting. The textures seem a bit weak but I can deal with that. The models and animation are very DX like (clunky and unlife-like) but the skins look pretty good on those guard's armor.

This demo didn't do much for me. The best part about Deus Ex is the Storyline, immersion in that storyline, and the character interaction. As far as I'm concerned the demo didn't even touch on that.

I'm still going to buy the game because the storyline and immersion looks promising.

My impressions of the preview demo: 6/10.
Compared to DX and whether or not it did well: 5/10 - need that Storyline.

This about sums up my feelings toward the demo. The HUD is fine but the rest of the interface is very annoying... I just don't know if they even have time to work out all these issues -- basically isn't the game already written, finalized, and sent off to the mastering/packaging factories by this point?

ChangelingJane
23rd Nov 2003, 20:58
Were we playing the same demo? Am I the only one that loved it? I like the interface, after getting used to it. We've only been shown what having the highest-level hacking aug is like, so you can't really comment on that--of course hacking is extremely easy, with the highest-level aug. Physics and lighting are fantastic. Facial animations are a little lacking, but not terrible. Overall, I enjoyed the hell out of it. :confused:

GingerNinja
23rd Nov 2003, 21:40
One of my main concerns isnt considered by most as a major one but I think its appalling!



The way my 3.2ghz P4, 1gbDDR RAM, 9800 PRO wont run it on anything higher than 800 x 600 without unacceptable stuttering and major mouse lag.


I REALLY REALLY feel sorry for those with lower end systems if this is what I have to put up with.
Regardless of what people think of the gameplay. Its probably not even playable for most people. IS just lost half their customers. No wait a quarter because I am sure its fully optimised for the XBOX. :(

Sotos
23rd Nov 2003, 21:41
I do not liked these Demo so much...
but
I will wait for the final release and i will make my judgement then...

I have a P4 3.0GHZ with 2.0 GB RAM and a Oveclocked Radeon 9800pro also and the game was not going smooth in a high res :eek: :eek:

What the heck!!!!
Do i need a Nvidia FX 59xx card to play it smoothly???
because it is a Nvidia and the way is meant to be played game

Mabe a NASA supercomputer is needed to play these Demo with HIGH QUALITY OPTIONS and with a good frame per sec

Sense
23rd Nov 2003, 22:22
Originally posted by Viking
My final conclusion is: *drumroll* You're an idiot.

Anyway, I don't much care if the story elements are indeed very good, because if a game makes you want to kick your computer down the stairs every five minutes, it's still going to be bad. The "less important" elements, as the silly optimists call them, may not make the game stand out much, but they're there, with the player, constantly. If they suck, like they do in "DX:IW", the player gets frustrated, and makes an assasination attemp on Warren Spector. Good job, Ion Storm. Hope you die in fire.

lol, I agree. I knew DX2 would suck.

Pdizzle
24th Nov 2003, 00:13
I don't mind the interface, or the inventory, or the simplified hacking, but the combat kills it, I feel like I am playing unreal not deus ex. Why no headshots, why? Why does it take 5 pistol shots to kill? It completely destroys the stelth approach. Hopefully these things can be fixed with a patch, but I am not buying this game when it comes out unless it gets a great review by PC gamer.

Sense
24th Nov 2003, 00:18
Originally posted by Pdizzle
I don't mind the interface, or the inventory, or the simplified hacking, but the combat kills it, I feel like I am playing unreal not deus ex. Why no headshots, why? Why does it take 5 pistol shots to kill? It completely destroys the stelth approach. Hopefully these things can be fixed with a patch, but I am not buying this game when it comes out unless it gets a great review by PC gamer.

A patch won't be able to fix everything wrong with DX. If this much is wrong with a short demo, imagine (Or read all the interviews about the dumbing down of DX, the demo just proves it's true) how ****ed up the entire game is? (Probably the storyline too)

Coldfire
24th Nov 2003, 00:43
ChangelingJane, your not alone...I loved it to

StuffGuy
24th Nov 2003, 00:56
Originally posted by ThorsHamburger
I think alot of 15 year old console gamers will think it's 'sweet". :rolleyes:

I take offense to that.

First of all the idea that 15 year olds are to stupid to an intelligent game is BS. Heck, the first game I *remember* playing was CIV I.

Second..... console games arnt necessarily dumber, heck, they have alot of the good tactics rpgs.

Third, I take offense to the sarcastic use of the word "sweet", I almost NEVER hear anyone use that word to describe a game.

Fourth, its pretty stupid to insult someones stupidity while at the same time showing no intelligence whatsover in your estimation of a game which youve played an obvioulsy badly put together demo for.

Fith, if the game turns out to be great and starts winning GOTY awards, your going to probably feel pretty dumb.

Sixth, I apoligize for the semi-flame, Ive just been getting ticked off by all the stupid negativity going around. Im still waiting for the Devs response to the Players response to the Demo on monday. Which im hoping will include a sincere apology for putting out a screwed up demo. This has caused me to choose on a random stupid post to vent my anger on. So I didnt even bother reading the whole thread.

P.S. Yes everyone, there are headshots, they just dont happen to be 1 hit kill. The damage ratios are really screwed up right now. I excpect that the Devs will probably fix it, since I alrady did in about 2 minutes following instructions from the .ini tweaking thread.

SK Denton
25th Nov 2003, 00:23
ith, if the game turns out to be great and starts winning GOTY awards, your going to probably feel pretty dumb.

GOTY award doesn't mean that much since one of the most overhyped, overrated games one it last year - Splinter Cell. The only thing going for that game was the dynamic lighting and that is the only reason it won.

Secondly Deus Ex won 30 awards and not just 1 or 2 so even if DX:IW wins a few awards (which it probably will since so many sites are praising the demo even though the demo is rittled with bugs and can barely run on a high end pc), it will never match the greatness of the Deus Ex.

Viking2
25th Nov 2003, 00:58
Originally posted by SK Denton
GOTY award doesn't mean that much since one of the most overhyped, overrated games one it last year - Splinter Cell. The only thing going for that game was the dynamic lighting and that is the only reason it won.

Secondly Deus Ex won 30 awards and not just 1 or 2 so even if DX:IW wins a few awards (which it probably will since so many sites are praising the demo even though the demo is rittled with bugs and can barely run on a high end pc), it will never match the greatness of the Deus Ex.
I disagree with you on Splinter Cell. It has the best stealth gameplay to date in the gaming world, imo.

At any rate, GOTY edition certainly doesn't really mean anything, because reviewers compare it to other things out right now, looking at the game's strong points (which are indeed quite a few) and ignore its many weaknesses, which are listed all over the forum in rants. If gamers don't find the game to be good, partially because they can compare it to a great legend (the original), reviewers aren't really the people to trust, are they? I mean, they give out awards to all kinds of games, many of them undeserving, and overlook the many weaknesses of games like DX:IW because they are so amazed by its strengths. The gaming community, however, disagrees.

eyeronik
25th Nov 2003, 01:07
I wouldn't go as far as to call it a "game" as it doesn't work properly for 90% of people. I heard nasa can't even get it to run in 1024x768.

This game is gonna flop I think, not only does it not work properly the game seems to of lost any coolness it had, the demo leaves a lot to be desired. There didn't seem to be any will to do anything, stupid animal fight in the pub was about as interesting as Tony Blair and I could see the usual twist mad conspiracy story starting. The game seems to of gone all bright and happy, like pop idol or something, bring back the darkness, bring back denton!

SK Denton
25th Nov 2003, 01:09
I disagree with you on Splinter Cell. It has the best stealth gameplay to date in the gaming world, imo.

Have you played the Thief series?

AlteredGlyph
25th Nov 2003, 03:43
Originally posted by Baloon
First off I must say that I am a huge DX fan. DXI is one of my favourite games really high.
But I hate the demo. Well not as much the demo as the gameplay.

-INVENTORY: The inventory has been... massacred. In DXI there was the strategic placement of weapons, here it's a simplified arcade inventory for consoles (Xbox....). This is a MAJOR turnoff. What is the matter with the old one? It was perfect to me.

-HACKING: Childishly easy. Not to mention made for consoles (only use directional keys + enter). Wheres the username and password from DXI? Also the ATMs? Wheres the hacking time left line? Damn, this is tottaly off.

-GRAPHICS+PHYSICS: SUPERB, but some texturs are really ugly.

-INTERFACE: Again, massacred. The one from DXI where you could access the inventory, augs, logs, pics sectiones from one place in GREAT. This one is crap.

-DYNAMIC CROSSHAIR: Ouch! Feels like Im playing some cheap arcade shooter. I can run around, jump and Ill still hit the guy. Ouch!

-BODY PARTS (WHEN DAMAGED): I dont know why you took that away it was nice. You lose a leg, you crawl. Headshot - you die.
Here - nothing. Oh and I once shot that woman in the HEAD from POINT BLANK range and she DIDNT die. OUCH!

-UNIVERSAL AMMO: WHAT??? Flamethrower and pistol? Shotgun and SMG? This is just funny. It was great when you could take different ammo types in DXI reload them. Here... nothing!

-MUSIC: I like the theme in the main menu.

-EXP. POINTS: Where are they? They were an essential part of the original game!!!

-AUGS: Not even a aug interface. No comment.

-MULTITOOLS FOR HACKING WOODEN DOORS: That made me laugh.



Well, class, today I'm going to explain why Baloons post had good points and bad points, so let's begin.

His point about the inventory honestly doesn't make sense. Strategic placement of weapons? You mean droping half your stuff, and the picking it back up, just so you can move a gun from point A to point B? In this game, you just click on both items and they switch places.

The reason the hacking was so easy is because you had your LEVEL 3 neural interface biomod. Hacking was childishly easy with master skillis in computers in DX. However, you do need to find passwords, and it autoenters them, which sucks.

The reason the textures are ugly is because they are using the low detail textures, and the high detail ones are not there.

The interface, IMO was incredibly smooth, but I would like a convo log in the datavault.

The crosshair was terrible. First good point.

The damage models are messed up, so the headshots don't work in the demo. They are fixed in the full game. This is from one of the devs. I would also like to see the legs getting blown off, etc. but it's definetely not an integral part of the game.

The universal ammo is only noticable if you try to notice it. I know I didn't notice it. Still, it would be nice to have a few different types, like Matter, Chemical, and Energy. I do think that they have multiple ammop types, due to the fact that they say that most alternate fire modes use a different ammo type.

The skill points were utterly unrealistic in DX. I mean, JC was a trained agent who should have been able to fire a pistol staright, at least.

Do you know that augs are now called biomods? And that they have a configuration screen accesible by pressing the "b" key?
I thougt you didn't.

Ummm... The multitools send a stream of nanites that form themselves into a key, that unlocks the lock. Don't you have a brain? I thought so.

That's all for today class, I hope I cleared up a few things for you.

Labrie
25th Nov 2003, 06:47
I came by this forum tonight to read what people were thinking about this quite anticipated game. I was very surprised to see that the majority of threads were blaming the new game for being so bad, how it was nothing at all like the first one. Everyone that was complaining was basically complaining about the same thing...either the HUD or interface or realistics physics of the game. All which have revelance to be argued about no doubt. The thing I couldn't get over was this...the majority of complaints were about how the new game didnt follow the first in whatever way but not once did I see someone say something about how they loved the first game because of its amazing storyline. The whole thing that made the first game a huge success was the storyline and how the way you played the game made such a difference in how the story went along. The story was based on conspiracies and completely surrounded you as a player. You actually felt like you were in the game making your own decisions and thats what sold the game. It wasn't the graphics or the way the HUD looked or how the AI reacted to gun shots. Although those features are quite important in todays gaming society, I think most people are forgetting the fact that Deus Ex has an amazing storyline. Sure when it comes down to the technical side of things, a storyline has no revelance but in no way can a storyline be forgotten. I mean if they made a new duck hunt that would beat half life 2 in graphics and physics and AI reponses, I sure as hell wouldn't buy it. It may be the best looking thing on the market but I'm not one to sit at a computer for 12 hours a day shooting ducks. It just gets to a point where graphics just dont cut it for me. A good game needs a good story to back it or its just pointless. Now as for some of the things your arguing about, I have no say because I havent played the demo yet. It just seems quite stupid to say that you won't buy a game because the HUD looks like crap. In this new game it's quite obvious that they are looking for a futuristic look. I mean in the last game they actually explained how the nanonites in the augmentations worked, it was very in depth. They didn't say "this aug makes you run faster because it just does" or "this aug makes you see through walls because its just cool". Even if you took time to read the books left open throughout the game, they offered some interesting information and you could read newspapers and when you hacked into someones computer everyones account was different and had emails. It made you feel like you were really in the Deus Ex world, to me it made it seem very real. As for the new game, is universal ammunition really that hard of a concept to grasp? And the new HUD looks fine to me. I mean last time I checked, my eyes were circular, not rectangular. Your not looking through your forehead. Obviously the game won't please everybody, that would be impossible, but I think if your going to rate a game, you can't pick and choose what to rate. You can say you don't like the technical aspects of the game so you won't buy it but you've forgotten a whole other side of the game. Now obviously we can't rate the story because we dont know how it ends because the games not out yet, but already people are shoving it aside and they havent even seen the whole picture. To be honest, the main reason I'm getting the game is because I wanna find out what happens. The story in this game is the best I've ever seen in a game and thats why I love it so much.

Keep in mind this is my opinion and wasn't meant to start a 3 page arguement over whos right and wrong.

StuffGuy
25th Nov 2003, 21:10
Originally posted by SK Denton
Secondly Deus Ex won 30 awards and not just 1 or 2 so even if DX:IW wins a few awards (which it probably will since so many sites are praising the demo even though the demo is rittled with bugs and can barely run on a high end pc), it will never match the greatness of the Deus Ex.

Actually, The previewers have a full preview version, not a demo.

naomha
26th Nov 2003, 05:41
Originally posted by Viking
My final conclusion is: *drumroll* You're an idiot.

Anyway, I don't much care if the story elements are indeed very good, because if a game makes you want to kick your computer down the stairs every five minutes, it's still going to be bad. The "less important" elements, as the silly optimists call them, may not make the game stand out much, but they're there, with the player, constantly. If they suck, like they do in "DX:IW", the player gets frustrated, and makes an assasination attemp on Warren Spector. Good job, Ion Storm. Hope you die in fire. :mad:

Amen brother. When the demo wont even work and you end up finding out they r not supporting ur vid card and u just downloaded 284 megs of crap......what do u think im thinking? ***K eidos and the whole boo-ya of punks who daddies went out and bought them $2000 dollar machines.........just makes me pissed. I work for a living, i buy my own stuff.....so support my *ss already!

Merovingi
26th Nov 2003, 05:56
"His point about the inventory honestly doesn't make sense. Strategic placement of weapons? You mean droping half your stuff, and the picking it back up, just so you can move a gun from point A to point B? In this game, you just click on both items and they switch places."

While the inventory in DX1 was clunky at best it was at least a bit more interesting than what we have in DX:IW. If you ask me, seeing as how this is all based on opinion anyway, the devs went to far with their "streamlining."


"The reason the hacking was so easy is because you had your LEVEL 3 neural interface biomod. Hacking was childishly easy with master skillis in computers in DX. However, you do need to find passwords, and it autoenters them, which sucks."

Even at LEVEL 3 it should've been a tad more.. immersive. I click on the ATM and all it does is say "HACKING" while giving me a bar till it's finished. Then I get the features... that's seriousyl lacking compared to the first game. There was absolutely nothing wrong with the hacking interface in the first game... why they decided to dumb id down and make it less interesting is beyond me.



"The reason the textures are ugly is because they are using the low detail textures, and the high detail ones are not there."

Yeah, I can't wait to see them at their best when I get the game.



"The interface, IMO was incredibly smooth, but I would like a convo log in the datavault."

Smooth? Yes. Intuitive and effcient? Hardly. Like I said before, it seems like the devs went to far with their streamlining and now the interface is absolutely dull and "consolish". I'm not putting down console games but they really could've and should've upped the interface for the PC version so that it's at least a bit more appropriate.



"The crosshair was terrible. First good point."

Hehe, ironically the crosshair was fine for me but I know what you guys are talking about. You're not talking about the look of the crosshair but instead the way that the game handles shooting and dynamic accuracy zones.. like in other games where if you have your aim steady while crouched the crosshairs will close in making for a more accurate shot. Didn't the first game handle this?



"The damage models are messed up, so the headshots don't work in the demo. They are fixed in the full game. This is from one of the devs. I would also like to see the legs getting blown off, etc. but it's definetely not an integral part of the game."

I hope you're right because as the demo stands it's nothing more than a first person shooter with a little Deus Ex storyline/style injected deep within. The first one was (comfortably) a little lighter on the FPS side due to the RPG elements that it featured.




"The universal ammo is only noticable if you try to notice it. I know I didn't notice it. Still, it would be nice to have a few different types, like Matter, Chemical, and Energy. I do think that they have multiple ammop types, due to the fact that they say that most alternate fire modes use a different ammo type."

I agree with you here. I got over the unified ammo.. I played it off as a nanotechnology scheme which could potentially be realistic.



"The skill points were utterly unrealistic in DX. I mean, JC was a trained agent who should have been able to fire a pistol staright, at least."

This is where I really disagree. While Denton was a highly trained agent, like all agents he wasn't necessarily good at EVERYTHING and that is realistic... if only a little. This brought in a great RPG aspect that really put the gameplay into place. Skillpoints will be missed by me :P



"Do you know that augs are now called biomods? And that they have a configuration screen accesible by pressing the "b" key?
I thougt you didn't."

While I think it's okay that you point that out to him, the whole "I thought you didn't" was rather rude and unnecessary.


"Ummm... The multitools send a stream of nanites that form themselves into a key, that unlocks the lock. Don't you have a brain? I thought so."

Same deal here -- no body likes a conceded prick so back off the whole "I'm smarter than you deal." We really don't need that on these forums.. if I can speak for many of us.

You make an interesting point about the multitools, however, and I think it makes a realistic explanation as to why they are used that way in the game. In fact, I didn't even think about that :)

"That's all for today class, I hope I cleared up a few things for you. "

You must be one of those teachers that teaches the class while making them feel like morons because they didn't go through college like you did :)

I can't stand those teachers, hehe.

Merovingi
26th Nov 2003, 06:02
Originally posted by naomha
:mad:

Amen brother. When the demo wont even work and you end up finding out they r not supporting ur vid card and u just downloaded 284 megs of crap......what do u think im thinking? ***K eidos and the whole boo-ya of punks who daddies went out and bought them $2000 dollar machines.........just makes me pissed. I work for a living, i buy my own stuff.....so support my *ss already!

No offense, but I'm broke and in college and I was able to afford a decent rig that can run this game fine... hardly even a $1000 dollars after building it my self. If you are so dependent and making a living then why don't you buy the necessary hardware so you can play the game. The required specs are reasonable for this game (besides the fact that it's currently in need of some major tuning).

It wouldn't take much to look at the requirements of the game, let alone the demo, before downloading.

Again, I mean no offense but you really shoudln't be upset for something that you could have easily done. However, there really should have been a warning or notice about the demo before downloading that it requires a card that utilizes Pixel Shading 1.1.

Anyway, when you can pick up a nice Radeon 9600 Pro, which is what I'm using. It's only $150 I believe.. check out Newegg (http://www.newegg.com) for some prices on a compatible card. If you want to play any of the newer games then it's really worth it to buy the card anyway :) Good luck.

naomha
26th Nov 2003, 20:24
Originally posted by Merovingi
No offense, but I'm broke and in college and I was able to afford a decent rig that can run this game fine... hardly even a $1000 dollars after building it my self. If you are so dependent and making a living then why don't you buy the necessary hardware so you can play the game. The required specs are reasonable for this game (besides the fact that it's currently in need of some major tuning).

It wouldn't take much to look at the requirements of the game, let alone the demo, before downloading.

Again, I mean no offense but you really shoudln't be upset for something that you could have easily done. However, there really should have been a warning or notice about the demo before downloading that it requires a card that utilizes Pixel Shading 1.1.

Anyway, when you can pick up a nice Radeon 9600 Pro, which is what I'm using. It's only $150 I believe.. check out Newegg (http://www.newegg.com) for some prices on a compatible card. If you want to play any of the newer games then it's really worth it to buy the card anyway :) Good luck.

I was a little pissed after they didnt post specs before downloading, but unfortunately my mobo is on its last leg and wont support agp cards. And yeah, buying a new system sounds pretty reasonable until u have a child (which i just did), so $1000 bucks doesnt go very far when u have one. Someday soon i will pick up a new system, but until then, im just going to have to put up with what i have....oh well.

tmp whore
27th Nov 2003, 23:51
Well I definatly agree there are some things a little off with the demo I don't think it's "grokster fodder" yet.

As far as the look of the game goes and the choppyness you can tweak the .ini files to make it very smooth and good looking, I think they used the lowest common denominator for those that are dumb enough to buy a Dell or some other namebrand with on board Geforce2mx video or whatever and it would be able to play it.

Increasing the Cachesize from 1(why?) to about 20 or 30 depending on your video ram makes a huge diference in the smothability.

Dumbing down the game was probably the worst thing you could do in this sort of game because if you make something LESS immersive than before your just going to give every fan of the last game blue balls which will spill over in bad "hype" to the console players you are supposedly serving. In the end your not tailoring the game to either party. Dumb down a run and gun, not an RPG type game. If this game kept the original Skill points system, with skills, and different types of ammo, that would placate %90 of the punters forking over 60 bucks. If you have to take those features away from the console players, so be it, I don't think PC users should be punished by the bad descisions of those people too lazy or unwilling to get a proper computer.

Considering the PC has a keyboard, let us use it dammit! A cool thing in the last game was the ability to log on to terminals and hack with a keyboard, a console game could have a keyboard interface come up where you move that *****ty joystick thingy on the controller over the letters you need to push to type the login's and passwords. TO make it simpler for console players change the logins and password to 4 characters. Ie User: mako pass: 5465. I hope this is a game worthy of buying instead of downloading from grokster, I think Developers dont realize that if they make an awsome game, people will be willing to fork over 60 bucks for it. It seems like the boardroom has had their fingers in the development too much. I would like to see someone have a final build of this game and interface and give it a proper review, if it stands how it is, grokster here I come!

I'm willing to give it another chance as I have been fooling around with the game and if you look hard enough you can see the underlying Dues ex shining through. We must realize that this is a DEMO not the real thing. So you run around look at stuff shoot a couple of rounds through some guns and get a fell for the game. THe full version may make this demo look like a bad version of PAC MAN for all I know so I am willing to give it another shot as I bought the first game and loved it. In fact last year, I found it again and loaded it up and played it and loved it just as much as I did when I first played it 3 years ago. So the expectations are high, but lets give it another chance before we totally write it off.


As a side note I think the console was the worst thing that ever happened to gaming. Please!!! Get a real computer, you are screwing up the rest of us.

pmaura
28th Nov 2003, 02:18
well the thing that really gets me know besides the unified ammo is the 15 hours of gameplay. Thats short. 25-30 is the minimum for me to buy a game and then it better have a lot of replay.

naomha
28th Nov 2003, 03:36
[QUOTE]Originally posted by tmp whore
I don't think PC users should be punished by the bad descisions of those people too lazy or unwilling to get a proper computer.

Some peeps have some REALLY LARGE BALLS saying stuff like that. How about for the people that dont have the loot to go buy a new comp?.....ie, bills, mortgage, credit card bills, kids, etc...Come off ur high horse there buddy and look at the real picture and maybe, just maybe, u will see the light.

SpECuLaToR
28th Nov 2003, 05:05
Wow, i cant wait for its release. Looks great!

Some people care too much.

Im sure we can all find something in a game that we could have designed better ourselves....need I say more?

As for the opinion that 'money is everything'...what other reason would anyone invest thousands of dollars into an amount of time and work taken to design a game? Charity? Forum opinions?

Bring me my full game!

tmp whore
28th Nov 2003, 06:24
Whether I have large balls or not is irrelevant, I'm a computer tech and my computer is probably the cheapest thing here, In fact all I have is a ti4200 overclocked and this game runs 1024X768 on my crappy barton 2500+ overclocked to 3000+ no problem. A TI4200 can be picked up for as low as 80 bucks, so save your allowance or whatever. and install coolbit.reg to overclock it and your fine. If you want to play new games you have to be at least semi-current, in fact my card is hardly "current" it's about 2 generations behind. My comments were more directed at console buyers who cannot upgrade and are obsolete the day they walk out of the store. For the 299 or whatever the XBOX costs you could get a motherboard, CPU, fan and 512mb ram, borrow your mom's hard drive and your in business. FOr the price of 2 games you have a half decent video card. It boggles the mind. I guess since Microsoft created it they can pump a sh_itload of money at advertising and support for companies to make games for it, regardless if it hurts the PC gamers or not. Trying to "compromise" to get a hit on the console to the detriment of the PC gaming community just shoots yourself in the foot. Your pleasing nether the PC or XBOX community.

Blackjack
28th Nov 2003, 16:22
Originally posted by StuffGuy
... if the game turns out to be great and starts winning GOTY awards, your going to probably feel pretty dumb.
True, but not if it turns out like the demo and wins the wooden spoon, we won't.

Oh, and here's the TTLG poll (http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=76292). Pretty similar.

@tmp whore

What you say is largely valid, but I have almost the same rig as you, with a GF3Ti200. That's a minimum spec card for DX2, it's true. However, it poops on every other game I've thrown at it, but slows to a snail's pace with DX:IW. This game is VERY demanding on the graphics card itself, though not especially on the rest of the PC. Reviewers are also complaining at its performance. I suspect even your framerate is being hit some if you do an honest measured comparison. ISA have taken a big risk with this performance level, and supposedly they've cut great gashes in the game to bring it up to even this speed. I'm not sure the trade-off will be worth it.

tmp whore
28th Nov 2003, 17:59
A little tip: click off Vsync. Don't write off the whole game yet, hopefully the full version will meet our expectations, this is really a tech demo of the basic engine.

Godwin
29th Nov 2003, 11:21
Originally posted by eyeronik
I wouldn't go as far as to call it a "game" as it doesn't work properly for 90% of people. I heard nasa can't even get it to run in 1024x768.

dont be a smartypants *******....

i got it to work on 1024x768 with a stable frame rate on a 2.4ghz; 512mb; gf4 ti4200 machine

Brekfist
29th Nov 2003, 19:03
It completely sucks and most everyone damn well knows it. Factor out the "sympathy" vote that a lot of these fanboy idiots felt compelled to go with in IS's "defense" in spite of their own misgivings, plus the console kiddies (who actually should love it), and you have a truly miserable mass opinion of DX2. I so hate Ion Storm right now it isn't funny.

Jong
30th Nov 2003, 10:44
*bump*

Let's see if we have things have changed since the first review?

Bonk
30th Nov 2003, 18:51
What worries me the most is the rumors of the game's shortness, being possibly only 10-20 hours long :eek:

Exodus
30th Nov 2003, 22:34
Well, after being a 1337 Vet of DX for since when it was made, I g2g this game, even though it sucks. I feel that ION storm could've have done a better job, but they've already, hopefully, did the best they could've done.

SpECuLaToR
30th Nov 2003, 22:41
Originally posted by Exodus
Well, after being a 1337 Vet of DX for since when it was made, I g2g this game, even though it sucks. I feel that ION storm could've have done a better job, but they've already, hopefully, did the best they could've done.

Roger that.

crazyhorse
2nd Dec 2003, 03:21
A few people have been saying that they think DX:IW will fail on PC but will be a hit on X-Box. While I understand the sentiment, I don't really expect it to do well on X-Box either.

Most people who have X-Box aren't going to dish out money for a game that uncomfortably straddles the line between RPG and FPS. If we're assuming that the casual X-Box fan is just looking for violence etc then they'd be dissapointed with DX:IW because it is not on par with other straight-up FPS games, just as those of us who are looking for a mostly RPG based FPS are likely going to be dissapointed because the RPG elements have been watered down.

Just look at the ads: They showcase guns guns guns and more guns, showing Alex D. taking out more and more enemies, over and over again, while ironically flashing bunk about choosing how to play. Ionstorm STILL can't make up their mind over how to market the game, and their greed in trying to appeal to ALL audiences during development will be their undoing.

CCT
2nd Dec 2003, 03:34
gamespot have just post a review for IW. It looks like you can finish the game in 10-15 hours...... THAT is just too SHORT!!!!!!
They only give it a 8 out of 10.. guess it won't be wining a lot of awards.....



btw here is the link
http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/deusexinvisiblewar/review.html

corvus
2nd Dec 2003, 05:27
Blarg.

The developers haven't let us down so far. They deserve our trust. I can't believe all these people who are ripping into the game on the basis of one half-hour demo and a few screenshots. I, for one, am going to believe in the skills of Mr. Spector and his team until and unless I'm proven wrong.

Every indication is that Invisible War will be excellent. Not perfect, of course, but what everyone seems to forget is that the first game was hardly perfect, either. It is still the all-time best game in history. Why? Because it had a fantastic, immersive story and a detailed universe. Everything I've read--previews, reviews, and the like--says that Invisible War will continue the tradition and make it even more open-ended.

Yes, it looks different. Yes, the interface is oversimplified. Yes, I miss the multiple ammo types and skill levels. But Deus Ex has never been about those things, it's been about creating a all-encompassing world that a player can lose himself in.

Blasting Invisible War because of the streamlining is like blasting the Lord of the Rings movies because they were simplified for the silver screen.

Stop kvetching, open your eyes, and open your minds. If, even after playing the full game, you still hate Invisible War, then I respect your opinion. Until then, really, what's the point?

Blarg. Peace out.

SpECuLaToR
2nd Dec 2003, 05:34
Originally posted by corvus
Blarg.

If, even after playing the full game, you still hate Invisible War, then I respect your opinion. Until then, really, what's the point?



Much like having expectations before going into a cinema. Mine were quite large, and have to be to purchase a game these days. Unforntunetely, after all my research and 'critic' reading, I have decided that this game wont enjoy my money. I havent been let down, infact I have probably been saved some $$$.

UT2003's demo was great, so I bought it ASAP! DX IW demo, sucked a fat one, therefore I wont buy it ASAP.

Actually, Im sick of reading about it, so Im going to unsubscribe from this Forum.

Coyote
2nd Dec 2003, 21:44
What are these so=called faults with the original you are referring too?

I played the first DX on a lappy with a PIII 650 and a 8mb on-board gfx. I never had a prob with framerates or anything else?

I did have the G.O.T.Y edition though. Was there a previous issue of DX which was buggy ?

corvus
2nd Dec 2003, 23:18
The faults I was talking about weren't technical, they were more gameplay-related... things like a clunky interface, choke-points in the story (like being forced to side with the NSF), and some minor inconsistencies. Don't get me wrong; I hardly think its a bad game--I loved it and I expect to love the sequel.

Blarg.