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Catman
21st Nov 2003, 18:06
After you've had a chance to play the demo, post your opinions here. Please try to limit the spoilers -- but readers beware.

<span style="font-size : 36pt">There will be spoilers in this thread.</span>

Nettwerk
21st Nov 2003, 18:49
FPS is super laggy for me, can only play at 1280x768 with high settings :(

3.2ghz p4
1 gig ddr
ati 9800xt

Five.Pointe.O
21st Nov 2003, 18:53
POSTED BY Glyph on the IS board:
Well, I'll just say this, and then get back to the demo. The graphics really do not look good. While they look better than dx1, they aren't going to win any awards.

Ack :eek:

J.theYellow
21st Nov 2003, 18:55
My opinion is that they should not have made this a GameSpy exclusive, if they were truly interested in getting this demo out to the widest audience. It should have been sent to multiple download sites, period.

That said, I'm looking forward to later today, when I imagine most other mirror sites will have it available.

Psychotext
21st Nov 2003, 18:57
Originally posted by Nettwerk
FPS is super laggy for me, can only play at 1280x768 with high settings :( What a totally wierd resolution to play games at. Why dont you use something a little more standard like 1024 * 768 or 1280 * 1024?

AlteredGlyph
21st Nov 2003, 19:01
Why? Why are the graphics fuzzy? I don't know. And the controls are a little sensitive, and the hud is a small pain, but I'm getting used to it after 3 minutes of play. I'd say that says something for it's goodness.

Nettwerk
21st Nov 2003, 19:07
Originally posted by Psychotext
What a totally wierd resolution to play games at. Why dont you use something a little more standard like 1024 * 768 or 1280 * 1024?

I play everything at 1600x1200 but in this game it is horrid. And its nothing but deus ex 1 graphics with lighting and karma physics. Alot of people gonna be dissapointed with this demo.

bleh.

Meteor_of_War
21st Nov 2003, 19:08
graphics DO NOT make a game folks.:o

Five.Pointe.O
21st Nov 2003, 19:09
Deus Ex 1 with PHYSICS!? WE GOT A WINNER!!!!1111:cool: :cool:


graphics DO NOT make a game folks.

That's depends on who is playing the game.

Nettwerk
21st Nov 2003, 19:10
ya save all that crap till you play it.

Dark Of Thought
21st Nov 2003, 19:21
I have found cranking up the multisampling to x6 under video goes a LONG way in making the game run smoother for me. On 1x sampling the game is choppy as hell.

AlteredGlyph
21st Nov 2003, 19:22
Revised opinion: Graphics aren't tops, but I chucked a barrel off of a balcony, it hit the roof of a shed, and rolled down it. It was so cool. Also, the flamethrower OWNS!!!! And now I have to eat lunch, deliver flyers, so I won't be able to play again until evening. NOOOOOOO!!!! Oh well, at least the game rocks. Try and break into the greasel owners house, it's cool in there.

Biznaz
21st Nov 2003, 19:32
YESSSSSS YES YES YES YES YES YES YES

demo rocked! I cant wait until dec 5. Thats going to mark the day I.. call in sick and take 3 days to explore the dark world of DX2. Physics rocked. Throwing around barrels and tires, and whacking people with poolsticks ROCKS. toss something down stairs or off a balcony, and it bounces, rolls, falls over, slides, and does other stuff that generally ROCKS. toss something on top of that burning barrel and it ROCKS the walls with real looking shadows. i've played the demo a few times through, doing all the things i could possibly think of, and there's so many options. Its great.. the first time i went through, i was just exploring, and i came across this apartment with a girl and a.. uh.. one of those mutated chicken things. well i ROCKED them both with my FLAMETHROWER (which rocks as well). Then wehn i get in the bar, and go down to the pit and talk to some people, some guy offers to pay me to take out the competition for his mutated chicken. the one his chicken is going to fight. well, i already did that, and alex tells the guy i already did, SO I GOT SOME MONEY! and then i watched this guy's chicken ROCK the other chicken, and, well.. it rocked. then i went to the lauch pad and it was over :( but that was the only bad thing. my score: 6/5 ROCKS \,,/


edit
oh yeah, played fine at 800x600 on my ti 4200. had to adjust the mouse sensitivity a little when i started, but after that it was gold. which rocks. but is not a rock.


OHHHH and I dont know what all you people where huffing in puffing about Ez Pad or whatever. I downloaded with my FREE gamespy account, to an exe i could easily distribute, and installed it. It NEVER ASKED FOR MY GAMESPY LOGIN. EVER. ROCK ON!

Meteor_of_War
21st Nov 2003, 19:36
Glad to hear you think it "rocks" so much.

Since you sound like you played through the entire demo, how long would you say it is?
With exploring around and all.

Five.Pointe.O
21st Nov 2003, 19:39
Originally posted by Biznaz


i watched this guy's chicken ROCK the other chicken, and, well.. it rocked.

YOU WIN! ....

BTW you don't get to wield the pool stick as a weapon do you? You just throw it at people? Can you throw the balls from the pool table too?

Rooklin
21st Nov 2003, 19:41
Sweet. Finally a decent conseption of the game! Keep um comming!

Biznaz
21st Nov 2003, 19:44
demo took me maybe 10 mins the first time, shooting everybody and whatever. But I spent about an hour or something playing it all the different ways i could think of. Hacking and being sneaky, being friendly and paying off people, sneaking and bribing, sneaking, hacking, AND BRIBING. that one was fun. then this other time i just went through and rocked their F'ING socks off. that was fun too, but not as fun as hacking bribing sneaking and BRIBING.

the poolstick isn't a weapon that you can add to your inventory, but i did get this thug damn pissed by throwing it at him a ton. and i threw a tire at him a couple times. he was super pissed. but after all that he still told me about how he flew a plane and crashed and whatever. we shared a moment even tho i pissed him off. which was cool that he was so forgiving. if anyone tried some poolstick tire throwin shat on me i'd ROCK EM with my pistol with the increased rate of fire mod. they'd be sorry they even looked at a poolstick...

btw this is now my second post. i enjoyed the demo so much i signed up and registered with my real email just to share this with you guys. because this game is special. and it rocks. damn hard. i mean the demo does, i'm sure the game will be beyond what can be measured in the rock scale.

Kalean
21st Nov 2003, 19:47
I would love to tell everyone my experiences with the demo, but unfortunately after the 250 meg dl, I cannot play it, as my card does not support pixel shader. Disabling the game for those who don't have pixel shader was a bad idea back when 3d mark 03 did it, and it's a bad idea now. I'm sure the game itself is great, but for people who can't afford a 200 dollar video card, it's mildly frustrating. I'm sure you'll all tell me to get over it or buy a new card, but I think personally that cutting out so much of your audience before the game is even out is a very bad decision. I know my system for one has the ram to run anything (if I can run planetside on LOW with a decent framerate, I could run anything, and I can run it on MEDIUM with a decent framerate, so I know the game would be more than playable) I hope this changes by retail, because I'm not willing to pay 200 dollars to play one game. Even if it will probably be the best game ever made for a very long time.

buzzfunk
21st Nov 2003, 19:54
**** YOU Warren spector for ****in over your PC FAN BASE!

This demo ****in sucks ass. Why do i act and sound like a immature 12 year old? BECAUSE im ****in disappointed!!!

Deux Ex, just like System shock 2, was really one of my favorite games.

This demo proves that the game has been indeed

CONSOLE`D

The interface is ****in unbareable. The fonts, even at 1600x1200 looks like its been made for 8 years olds so they can read.
While in levels, the proportion isnt right. The door seems to big and the rooms are too small. Gameplay...huh..? wheres the gameplay? Oh great i can sneak, shoot or hack....and the hacking is me pressing the left MB. OH THATS INOVATIVE...

**** you Ion Storm for ****in this **** up.

That is my opinion. Please after waiting 3 years for this i have to godamn right to vent my disappointment.

Meteor_of_War
21st Nov 2003, 19:57
Kalean...because of the ever advancing tech of PC hardware and games, it's a must to upgrade every couple of years or so to keep up. Sorry you cant play the game on your system. What are you specs anyway?

And i am curious, could people who have tried the demo not only post what they think about it gameplay wise, but how it runs on your systems and please list your system's specs.

Thanks.

Biznaz
21st Nov 2003, 20:00
hey kalean, i feel your pain. I used to have a geforce1 for a long time, and it was pretty cool for the games that came out around the time i got it. but after a while all these games came out that it could barely play. and i was mad. but you know what? if game makers made games that looked good on old graphics cards, then they wouldn't take advantage of the new technology thats out. and they'd look like the games from the year before. which would NOT ROCK. check this out gforce4 4200 for 88 bucks (http://www.shentech.com/bfgasgeti12d.html) now you dont have to spend 200 bucks. This is what i have, and it plays games pretty decent. I dont know if it has pixel shaders or whatever, but it plays DX2. And right now and up until december 15th, thats all that matters.

sandman441
21st Nov 2003, 20:03
i got done playing it it runs good on my system the only problem is the mouse sensitivity is was to high it's on 50 percent and if you moved it a little bit it would move way too far. Other than that it was good i found a book that mentions jc and paul in one of the apartments.


amd athlon xp 2500+
1.84ghz
512mb of ram
geforce 4 ti4200

Iron_Weasel
21st Nov 2003, 20:07
Originally posted by buzzfunk
**** YOU Warren spector for ****in over your PC FAN BASE!

If you want to be pissed off, you should probably direct it at Harvey Smith, who was in charge of the project.


Gameplay...huh..? wheres the gameplay? Oh great i can sneak, shoot or hack....and the hacking is me pressing the left MB. OH THATS INOVATIVE...

Yeah! Whatever happened to the good old days of DX 1 hacking, where you right-clicked on a console and THEN left-clicked the little 'hack' button! :rolleyes:

Cheers!

Iron Weasel

Psychotext
21st Nov 2003, 20:08
Hahaha. YOU HAVE TO SEE THIS!!!

Killing her was one thing, but no - I had to screw up her arm too:

http://www.fusionstudios.co.uk/arm1.jpg
http://www.fusionstudios.co.uk/arm2.jpg
http://www.fusionstudios.co.uk/arm3.jpg

I have it saved at this point so I can get more shots later. For now it's back to playing the game. :D Oh, it's running like a dream too - 1280 * 1024, full detail, 4 x Multisample on:

2800+
1gb Ram
Radeon 9800

VodunLoas
21st Nov 2003, 20:16
LOL you screwed that arm up bad... havok engine is crazy...

btw, your specs are a dream to me. :D

Roquefort
21st Nov 2003, 20:16
any1 getting weak download speeds? i'm on a uni network in london where i can usually get up to 750kbps dl but i'm stuck on a measly 24k at the moment what's going on?

Sherv
21st Nov 2003, 20:17
Originally posted by Psychotext
Hahaha. YOU HAVE TO SEE THIS!!!

Killing her was one thing, but no - I had to screw up her arm too:


Oh man, that's a RIOT! Reminds me of a time when I shot a guy in Max Payne and he got stuck on a banister railing or something, all contorted.

PointlesS
21st Nov 2003, 20:23
this game is everything I wanted it to be...I played for like 2 hours just toying around with everything...shooting guys with the turret it awesome too...killed 3 guys with it...one of them I shot a barrel at them and knocked them over...I set it to attack allies...when I got to the turret there was a guy who was walking though the door way...I got his attention...he ran out and got shot by the turret...cool stuff...

now I'm going back to play it again trying to kill no one...

Psychotext
21st Nov 2003, 20:38
Originally posted by Sherv
Oh man, that's a RIOT! Reminds me of a time when I shot a guy in Max Payne and he got stuck on a banister railing or something, all contorted.

That aint the half of it, I wish I could show you, but she's actually bouncing up and down like a loony toon, head hitting the edge of the elevator and body deforming.

lol

Kalean
21st Nov 2003, 20:40
My system specs (which cannot run Deus Ex: thanks to my graphics card) are as follows..

Amd Athlon XP+ running at 1.6 ghz (NOT a 1600, 1.6 ghz)
512 megabytes of ram.
GeForce 4 MX (yeah yeah, runs JK2 at 200+ fps) 128 meg video card
Sound Blaster Live!
80 gig hard drive

That's all that matters, and it's not enough, and yet I can run planetside at medium detail (which = spiffy looking and high memory consumption) with 60-100 fps..

Jesus, P.I.
21st Nov 2003, 20:46
Anyone else a little disappointed that a headshot is no longer an instant kill? I dunno, that kind of takes away from the tactical feel of combat. Is there ANY way to quietly eliminate opposition with some precision rather than electrocuting them noisily over a period of 10 seconds or pumping several rounds into them? If not, I think its fair to say that the combat to a certain extent has been "dumbed down."

Ente
21st Nov 2003, 20:49
Quick Demo Review.....let me first say that Deus Ex is in my all-time top 3 for games (Played System Shock, Cybermage and System Shock 2 too).

PC:
Athlon XP 2,6+ @ asus nforce 2 motherboard
512 DDR Ram
GForce FX 5800
SB Live

(not state of the art, but not outdated either imho)

1.)Graphics/Physics etc.:

Kinda disappointing. Without the Lights&Shadows it almost looks like DX 1...just look at the Textures...low-res. This wouldnt be that much of a problem to me since fancy graphics arent everything, but here the weak performance comes in. FPS 20-40 @ 1024x768 and <30 mostly @ 1280x1024 isnt enough for this graphics. There are games which just look so stunning that im willing to accept low FPS (e.g. Splinter Cell, and even this had more FPS @1280x1024 than DX:IW), there are games where graphics are kinda standard or even below but then they at least perform good. DX:IW ....graphics are nothing more than ok or even less and it performs very weak. It seems as if they didnt care to optimize the game even a bit. "But look at the omfg cool real-time lighting" u say ? Splinter Cell had that too, looked way better overall and performed better. "Hey but it got this ultra-cool physics-engine!"....Ye...Max Payne 2 has it too and guess what....looks & performs better too. Talking bout MP2....this is an excellent example of what is possible....Excellent Graphics and great performance even on not-so-state-of-the-art-comps. Excellent Visuals and therefore lower FPS is acceptable, not-so-great graphics but good FPS is acceptable, not-so-great graphics AND low FPS isnt acceptable. Next-Generation Graphics ? Definitely not....more like hardware-hungry as next-gen-graphics but looking almost like dx1 expect for realtime-lightning and havoc engine.

2.)Gameplay/Interface/Controls/Menus etc.:
Gameplay seems to be simplified too much imho. Interface/Controls are a pain in the ass and dont take advantage of PC-Controls either ("Press Enter to...", "Press Tab to..." etc...hey i got a mouse :) ) Subtitles are way too big (probably adapted to xbox-gamers sitting 5 meters away from their TV :P), Menus look cheap and could be easier to use also. All in all the game seems to be VERY simplified and dumped down compared to DX 1. Besides that it doesnt seem to save any settings changes i do, even if no game files are read-only.

Note that i wrote more about graphics than about the game itself....doesnt mean i put graphics over gameplay but graphics were easier to describe for me. I usually hate this "dumped down for console" term, but it seems to fit in here. Best example are menus, interface, controls and the big subtitles. Looks pretty cheap and unfinished while some other games manage to look polished and perfect here (hope u know what i mean).
End of Story...this game achieved the opposite of its purpose...im not going to wait to next year till it comes out in Europe and buy it then...going to by Star Wars:KOTOR next Week instead.
Prolly many ppl will like the game and i dont say its a bad game, but for someone who loved DX 1 and wanted to play a PC-Game, this is kinda disappointing.

Hey didnt anybody actually read all this stuff ? :D

Zhanate
21st Nov 2003, 20:50
It's good. I didn't see enough to make a judgment on the full game, but you can talk to people and learn things and do things and I'm really happy with this.

The graphics are fine. It's not a very pretty area, it's an ugly dilapidated part of town. It's not what I would have chosen to promote the game, considering some of the screenshots I've seen, but then I'm not exactly in the target audience.

Deus Ex was all about the story and the characters for me. The part I played -- and I don't know what percentage of it I played -- showed every sign this game may be as great as the first.

Oh yes, for those sentimental about DX1, these moments:

The guy at the bar, behind a window, says--referring to something about weapons--'Rules is rules.' Also, look for a history book in an apartment.


Don't know if anyone else considers that a spoiler, but I got a kick out of them.

I found one bug in the demo, which I really want fixed in the game: Key remapping didn't hold from one area to another. I can never really get into a game until the contols are automatic, so I really like to remap certain ones to the ones I always use.

The skills, reloading and varied ammo didn't matter to me in the first game -- except when they were petty annoyances. So I'm not missing them here.

The game plays fine on my Athlon 1900+, 512 mg ram, GeForce 5200 FX Ultra. I bumped the resolution up a little to 1024 by whatever. Starts to slowdown if I go higher.

Of course, I don't care if a game's graphics are the ultimate greatest -- far from it. It mattered a few years back, but for me, I stopped caring if game graphics got any better somewhere around the first Unreal. All the "improvements" I've seen in games since then were just details, as far as I'm concerned. It's like whether your car's top speed is 110 mph or 120 mph. As long as 0-to-60 is good, the top speed doesn't matter much.

Gotta get back to work now. (Fortunately I'm the boss ... )

Plasma
21st Nov 2003, 20:50
Can't play the demo due to my "lowly" GeForce 4 MX without pixel shader support. I have

2.0 Ghz P4
768 MB Ram
SB Live Sound Card
GeForce 4 MX 420

Personally I was a bit ticked off. While I agree completely that game makers must continaully push the envelope of next gen graphics (requiring better graphics cards) this is nuts. While my card isnt all that powerful, it can run EVERY other game on the market quite well. I just finished up Call of Duty, running at 1024/768, high detail, 2X Anti-aliasing and it ran with a very respectable frame rate. Half-Life 2, also runs beautifully (the demos anyways ;)). I wouldn't be so upset if DX2 did push the envelope for graphics. But, according to many people, and the screens I've seen, the graphics are nowhere near this level. That is what pisses me off: The only game on the market I can't play because it uses a feature that my 1.5 year old card doesn't support... and IT DOESN'T EVEN LOOK ALL THAT GREAT! Personally, I love Ion Storm and they always produce some of the best games ever, but this is riduclous. I would love to buy a new card, but I don't have the money now, or anytime close in the future. If I heard DX2 had the most mind blowing graphics then I might be understanding, but I think that Ion Storm dropped the ball by forcing the shaders. You're going to lose a lot of the market with this one. I love Deus Ex and I love Ion Storm but this is seriously silly :)

bartkusa
21st Nov 2003, 20:55
Wow, am I disappointed.

Why is everything so dark?

How come I can't drop what I'm holding without going to the inventory menu, selecting the item, and hitting the drop key?

In fact, why is mouse support for the UI non-existant, except for making it impossible to browse through the item menu without swapping everythings' positions? JESUS CHRIST THIS UI IS BAD.

Also, I'm getting sound errors (I have integrated sound on my mobo, go figure).

I have an Athlon BARTON XP 2500, a gig of DDR RAM, and a GF4 Ti4200. This game is almost unplayable on 640x480.

Is there any way I can mess with character detail, texture detail, and shadow detail, as the readme suggests?

Psychotext
21st Nov 2003, 21:00
Ok, now for some impressions.


Graphics not bad (1280 * 1024)
Load screens are very, very ugly
Load times are good
Interface is a little bit strange, but I got used to it in the end.
Inventory is very small but it does encourage you to carry only what you need.
Junk in dumpster (Yay!)
Some pretty bad graphical tearing on character models (Haven't changed settings to try fixing yet)
People are weightless, no movement penalty for picking them up (Very annoying)
I WANT TO CREATE DARKNESS... Please let me smash the lightbulbs
Books and posters on wall seem to be flameproof (Grr)
Ladders are good (I'm yet to fall off a platform), BUT WHY CANT I SHOOT FROM THEM! I dont want to move and shoot, just let me free one hand and use the pistol or something!
I like spider bots ("Desist unacceptable behaviour!")
Physics system is cool
Throwing chairs at people is cool
Shooting somebody in the head 20 times with the SMG is really not good. If I shoot someone in the head, they should drop after a few shots max. Same goes for if I get shot in the head.

I DO NOT like the unified ammo system, it's very very annoying to run out of ammo with one gun and lose the use of all your others. That one is a real shame, possibly a game killer.

One other thing is that my mappings changed to the default after loading of moving between levels, which is annoying. All in all, good. Not as good as I would have liked (Why, why the unified ammo!) but I think I'll get a copy.

Edit - Can I remove the mods that I've added to a gun? Are they supposed to be permanent cos I couldn't work out how to get them back off.

PointlesS
21st Nov 2003, 21:03
it doesn't really seem very dark to me at all...I have everything at the default setting and it was fine to me...

my only complaint that I have so far is why aren't there lean buttons? in a game like this where sneaking is nearly required you need lean buttons in order to not expose yourself completely...the first game had them and I used it quite often...don't tell me that it was taken out to steamline the game either because that's just bs...

bartkusa
21st Nov 2003, 21:06
Originally posted by PointlesS
it doesn't really seem very dark to me at all...I have everything at the default setting and it was fine to me...

my only complaint that I have so far is why aren't there lean buttons? in a game like this where sneaking is nearly required you need lean buttons in order to not expose yourself completely...the first game had them and I used it quite often...don't tell me that it was taken out to steamline the game either because that's just bs...

I hadn't realized that. Wow, chalk up another PC failure to the Xbox version.

Jesus, P.I.
21st Nov 2003, 21:08
Well now that I have played the demo, I can safely say that my concerns about reloading have vanished. A good thing? Hardly. It is simply overshadowed by the removal of a principal element of FPS games that want to distance themselves from quake-style combat: the instantly fatal headshot.

Is anyone else slightly miffed that there is no more sneaking up on an enemy and putting a single slug in his head? I really, really wish that they had different amounts of damage for different body parts. Unified ammo? fine. Combined Lockpick/Multitool? fine. No reloading? Who really cares; these were all discussed and argued over incessently, but ultimately they are unimportant to me now that I have experienced the full lack of tactical possibilities in combat. :(

Am I just a lone voice in the wilderness, or do others agree?

*I did it! I completed this post without using the dreaded 'c' word that often reverberates around this forum.* :)

CaptainStag
21st Nov 2003, 21:10
All in all, I think this pretty much sums up a lot of people's feelings.


YOU GUYS REALLY ****ED UP.

[fixed attempt to bypass language filter -- note to all that bypassing the language filter is a bannable offense).

El Padrino
21st Nov 2003, 21:10
I have to get to class soon and I've only played the demo for a half hour or so, so I haven' t seen much. What I have seen is my controls getting screwed up every time I die and reload. I have to redo my custom settings whenever this happens. Does anyone know what's causing this?

I also saw several of my bullets enter someone's head, without instantly killing them. What the heck is that about? On any other body part, this would be fine. But the head? No.

Had more fun than I should have throwing a garbage bin I found in a bathroom at the lightbulb attached to the ceiling. That was oddly cool, or I'm just a weirdo.

The auto-switching to multitools whenever necessary was great, as was the auto use of the glass destabilizer. For a while I was like "how the hell do I activate the glass destabilizer! curse you interface for being unclear!" When I gave up and just shot a window, I saw that it just used it automatically. Turns out there's one less button to push. "Excellent..." I thought in a Mr. Burns voice.

I do wish there was a button for holstering whatever weapon is in your hand, though. The only way I've found to do this is to focus on the belt or whatever, then right click when you're on the weapon you've got equipped. Too many steps. Am I missing something? Or is this just one of those things that isn't streamlined?

Oh, and I didn't notice there was no reloading involved. The game seemed fine to me.

Haven't found a quicksave or quickload button to be mapped, though I'm sure an unchangable default button is mentioned somewhere in the readme (I hope).

I also wasn't quite sure what to do in the demo. I remember some guy mentioning something about a ladder, but I must've missed it. But I attribute this to the fact that I was up all night and had no sleep. And now I have class. Poor me.

Anyway, someone please give me a heads up on what's wrong with my control set up reseting everytime I load. It's really annoying.

Dabs
21st Nov 2003, 21:12
Played through the demo. I am crushingly, crushingly disappointed. Deus Ex was (is) the best PC game I have ever played, and I've *really* been hoping for the last 2 years that this would be the sequel it deserves. I feel like how I felt when I'd just seen Matrix Reloaded. But I won't comment on details, judge for yourself. :(

No-one talk to me now, I'm too down about this.



<disappointment turns to anger>

I mean, WHAT THE F**K HAPPENED, Ion Storm? GRRRRAHHHHHH! :mad:

El Padrino
21st Nov 2003, 21:16
Originally posted by Psychotext

I DO NOT like the unified ammo system, it's very very annoying to run out of ammo with one gun and lose the use of all your others. That one is a real shame, possibly a game killer.

Yeah, but without unified ammo, you'd just pick up the same amount of different kinds of ammo. All that means is that you'll run out of ammunition before switching weapons more often. Unified ammo is there so it only happens once.

Sherv
21st Nov 2003, 21:16
I Am With You, Jesus! Locational damage was such a nice aspect of the first one.

Sherv
21st Nov 2003, 21:20
Perhaps some of our gripes can be addressed with a patch! If IS is concerned enough with our happiness and the overall evaluation of their product, I'm sure they'll address the outstanding issues (perhaps not gfx quality, but things like locationalized damage, interface options, etc)

go1dfish
21st Nov 2003, 21:20
Or is this demo very worrisome and dissapointing?

First the control, it feels very odd, 'floaty' as some people here have described it, it feels like a console

Second, it takes 5+ shots in the head with a pistol to take people down, this makes absolutely no sense at all whatsoever from either a gameplay or realism standpoint.

The interface (espescially as it relates to inventory) is atrocious, utterly unacceptable and need to be put down like a sick dog.

----

Then there are the minor issues.

The texture resolution is really low (could be just because of it being a demo) this doesnt bother me so bad, but could be nicer.

Weird graphical artifacts on ati cards (me and 2 suitemates with radeon 9800 pros have noticed these.

You cant get drunk

the ammo system just feels really strange without having to reload, but still seeing 'clips' on your hud?

----


Im probably gonna get alot of flak from saying this... but PLEASE for the name of god dont release the game like this,

I have been anticipating and wanting the game 'NOW!!' just as much as anyone here, but I'd GLADLY wait another 2 months to get this game fixed for the pc, because right now it is broken, and it feels like nothing more than a console port.

Psychotext
21st Nov 2003, 21:40
Originally posted by El Padrino
Yeah, but without unified ammo, you'd just pick up the same amount of different kinds of ammo. All that means is that you'll run out of ammunition before switching weapons more often. Unified ammo is there so it only happens once.

I'm not sure that makes sense. If I spray smg all over the place I want to know that I can go back to being sensible if I run out rather than suddenly being left with no weapons at all. In the old game I could change my tactics and go for long range kills with the sniper rifle etc.

In this one I am screwed cos I'm not living long with a knife.

Kennebel
21st Nov 2003, 21:44
System Specs:
Athlon XP 2800+
1 gig ram
Radeon 9700 Pro (demo doesn't appear to support multi-monitors, bummer)
Ran perfectly smooth at 1280x1024, 1x sampling rate.

Graphics:
. Everyone (character models) looks "puffy". In DX1, they were all skinny as a rail. It seems that the collapse was good for their stomachs.
. Character models also, to me, looked very "cartoony" (probably partly due to the puffiness). :/ I could have almost believed DX1 character models stepping out in to real life, but these just look animated.
. All the textures/etc appeared very "soft" as well, as opposed to the "grittiness" that gave DX1 such a nice feel.
. Fire was much nicer looking than any other game i've seen so far.
. They could have done better with the "soda" cans. DX1 was recognizable, i just thought these were small spools of wire or something till i happened to breeze my crosshairs over one.
. Font size was _hideous_ given the resolution i was in. To read a book of 5 or so paragraphs, with the font the way it is, was 3 "pages" long. Hard to read because i had to move my eyes/head across huge portions of the screen for each line.
. The concussion and spiderbot grenades look _very_ similar. They could have at least picked a different light color or shape.
. While objects/etc didn't look real, the lighting effects were very nicely done.
. Subtitles were also in the hideously huge fonts. Also was difficult with some of the conversations, such as entering the bar was a trial in patience as the guy gives this huge speech about turning your weapons off, every time. (oh, and somehow with a transmittable code, he turns off your baton...)

Gameplay:
. The control felt, sluggish, to me. I tried all different levels of mouse sensitivity, but still felt like it was lagging a bit.
. Because of the sluggish controls, i had a hard time even shooting greasels with a pistol.
. Gravity apparently does not have the same effect on the player as other objects in the game. Jumping from a standstill was simply amazing in the height and the slow fall time, as compared to all the boxes i threw around.
. You can enter a menu with a keystroke ("v" for example to enter the inVentory), but you CANNOT exit the menu using the same key. Have to hit this little "back" button.
. NO QUICKSAVE! ('nuff said about that item)
. Saving in general was a joke. To save a game, one hits a little button. No say in what the save is called or anything, just an auto-name with a time in game timestamp. To delete a game, you hover your mouse over the one you want to get rid of, and hit "Tab". Tab? When was the last time anyone deleted anything with Tab? (and there are no mini screen shots like in DX1, so you may have to load several if you are going back for some reason, and forgot which timestamp was the one you wanted)
. The animations of the menus were cute, but overly time consuming. Some of the menus seemed silly or over done. For example, having that huge "Yes/No" pop-up menu (with attendent animation) when you've clicked to move on to a new sector.
. Beware the bar! Next to the bar/tender there is this couple that has a neat little conversation, then EVERY single time after they always started with the same conversation from the start. I started going another route just to avoid their script lines.
. For those that were complaining about being able to clear out a person's entire belongings while they watched, will be partly happy. I was only able to do this about 50% of the time. The other 50% simply said things like "Hey, stop that!" (never actually did anything about it, but maybe i didn't push hard enough).
. Good bar point, you can clean it out, they don't mind you taking their money out of their locker. You can take the object on Sak's desk and she yells, you turn off her light, she yells, whiny, but didn't seem to do anything else (though with the obvious shotgun on her hip, i didn't try to hack the security terminal in her office).
. AI seems odd. While trying a few things out, i accidently shot this one guard (down by the fence) with the pistol one time. "Hey, don't do that!" (or something similar), but stayed "friendly". During a different play through, i decided to see what hacking the ATM looked like, so i did that, and the same guard flips out and starts all sort of flamethrower nonsense. Hacking an ATM gets him more upset than my putting a bullet in to his midsection?
. Multitools laying all over the place. No apparent rhyme or reason. Money seemed a bit more reasonably placed.
. A pistol, shotgun, fire extingushier, baton, and binoculars all take up the same amount of inventory space. This is the "improved" inventory system.
. Ladders seem to be more difficult to deal with than DX1, though you do more realistically put your weapon away while climbing on one.
. ATM's no longer have any interface. You either ignore them, or you hack them. Oh, and you just get some amount, and it breaks down. None of the excitement of typing the amount in before the time ran out. :)
. Security consoles appear to be either "select a user/pass you found somewhere" or hack. When you do finally hack one, you are assaulted with a HUGE font list of options.
. The security cameras are pretty cool, almost a vision aug type view.

Demo Specifics:
. Was very disappointed that each time i reloaded or changed "levels", i had to reset my key mappings. The game didn't even try to remember them. :(
. My windows mouse cursor was actually on the screen quite a bit. Detracted from the immersion considerably.
. (possibly just demo related) In the very bottom of the elevator shaft, i had a problem getting out, as i'd jump on to the large pipes in a crouch, and suddenly appear on the other side of the small area there.
. Not sure how, but i somehow climbed up a ventillation shaft. It wasn't immediately obvious HOW this was being accomplished, or how it might be used in other situations, but once i realized i was half-way up, i didn't question it.
. To change resolutions, i had to go through EVERY SINGLE ONE until i arrived at the one i wanted. "Click the arrow button, wait for my screen to flicker several times, click the arrow, wait..." Ugh! :( Maybe Xbox'ers don't understand "drop down menus", but they could at least have provided some radio buttons.

Conclusion:
I was _EAGERLY_ awaiting this game. Even completely played DX1 through _yet again_ just so i'd be in the proper frame of mind. Now i'm fairly certain that unless i happen to trip over a bag of money in the street, i won't be buying this game (even then, i might just take a friend out to the movies with the money instead). Some time ago, there was a Jurassic Park game that was heralded as the "Ultimate Box Stacking" simulator (as a joke due to it's game play limitations). My biggest interest with this demo seems to have been throwing boxes, so maybe this will become the "Ultimate Box Throwing" simulator.

I'm sure there was more, but this should be a good start.

Oh, and if this is what is in store for Thief 3, i'll be down at the local bar raising one to a game that is already dead.

(and please note that this was a thought out post, please also be thoughtful if you decide to counter)

KeoC4
21st Nov 2003, 21:47
I'm currently waiting for the demo to download. It's using less then half my line speed and it has no reason not to use it all.

Anyway, if the demo is as bad as everyone is making out, it looks like I'll be cancelling that pre-order.

I'll try it for myself and if it's bad, it will be back to waiting for Duke Nukem Forever.

SK Denton
21st Nov 2003, 21:47
Originally posted by Jesus, P.I.
Well now that I have played the demo, I can safely say that my concerns about reloading have vanished. A good thing? Hardly. It is simply overshadowed by the removal of a principal element of FPS games that want to distance themselves from quake-style combat: the instantly fatal headshot.

Is anyone else slightly miffed that there is no more sneaking up on an enemy and putting a single slug in his head? I really, really wish that they had different amounts of damage for different body parts. Unified ammo? fine. Combined Lockpick/Multitool? fine. No reloading? Who really cares; these were all discussed and argued over incessently, but ultimately they are unimportant to me now that I have experienced the full lack of tactical possibilities in combat. :(

Am I just a lone voice in the wilderness, or do others agree?

*I did it! I completed this post without using the dreaded 'c' word that often reverberates around this forum.* :)

No, you are not alone in the wilderness.

And I strongly suggest that everyone that has been dissapointed go here:

http://www.ionstorm.com/forum/summary.asp?forum=AMB%5FAP619612110

and tell Ion Storm how they feel. Maybe by some miracle they will get the picture and make a patch or something.

Meteor_of_War
21st Nov 2003, 21:48
ack...from what i'm reading in these posts i'm getting a BAD feeling. Why are so many things from the first game taken out or changed (lean feature, localized damage, reloading, etc.). I dont understand, if things were fine with Deus Ex1 why change them in the sequel. I always thought a sequel should have everything the first game had and improved, PLUS more features. I'll be home in about 30 minutes then i'll be able to see for myself if all you guys that are complaining are right about what your saying or just nuts, hopefully NOT the later.:(

Ente
21st Nov 2003, 21:57
Kennebel and some other ppl just my feelings&thoughts about gameplay into words in a way i couldnt :) 2 Last notes:

1.Since when does the Escape-Key means "Save" ? Thats like clicking the "start" button to quit something :D

2. Yes, maybe the demo doesnt contain high-resolution textures....but then again i dont wanna see the games performance with high-res textures if it alrdy performs that bad with low-res textures

/me install System Shock 2 again so i can play a really good game :D

GingerNinja
21st Nov 2003, 21:58
OMG.



You people are seriously scaring me.


I have been looking forward to this for ages.





To the developers:

If I am not impressed with this demo I WILL NOT buy the game. And that isnt an empty threat. Next year there will be countless games to take my cash such as HL2, S.T.A.L.K.E.R oblivion lost, Farcry and Doom3 + more.

If I am not impressed. You WILL NOT get my cash.
And there are others like me.



This wasnt made to make you feel bad. But please please please, dont let down the PC audience with getting rid of localised dammage and leaning and all the other stuff that has been mentioned repeatedly


If this doesnt impress me, the only thing that could make me buy the game is a demo patch or new demo with big improvements.







Sorry to sound like a whinning 12 year old. But I think you need to hear it.


I hope for all our sakes I love it!!! :P j/k

Ente
21st Nov 2003, 22:16
Some stuff alrdy mentioned here could be changed with a patch, some cant. U can probably improve performance, remap keys, create a better UI etc with a patch but u cant change core gameplay with it. In DX 1 u were usually rewarded for taking the clever way through a certain situation (just looking around, talking to ppl, THINK what u could do etc). It was probably a bit more time-consuming to check all available options+ways but instead of wasting health packs and ammo like there is no tomorrow u got through a situation just with cleverness and using ur equipment without wasting much health packs and ammo.
Now in this DX2 Demo....takin the "clever way" is really stupid since the kill-everyone-with-tah-big-gun-approach is way easier. If the rest of the game can be solved like this....i rest my case :(

Attn...Spoiler....playin the demo the easy way:
Go the the SCS Guard, kill him with Pistol. Take his Flamethrower, hack the panel to the right, go up the ladder, kill evveryone up there with the flamethrower, go to the bar, talk to sid and thats it.

Been playin around with the demo a few times more....in hope i could at least get a decent feeling about it....but nope...im getting more and more disappointed about what could´ve been a great game :(
Conclusion: "You have been XBOX´ed!" (Not being offensive at console gamers but rather towards developers/publishers who seem to think the average console gamer has an IQ of 60 and theres nothing wrong with doing the same to pc gamers.....)

FuriousNoob >:-(
21st Nov 2003, 22:47
I can say this about the unified ammo/ no reloading - i sure didn't notice it as i was concentrating on all the other flaws. I thought the new interface was supposed to decrease key presses yet there's no quick way to holster or drop an weapon/item. If i'm holding a multiitool - if i want to empty my hands i have to either take out a weapon, then select the weapon in the menu, then hit use and i can holster it or go into my inventory. Please tell me i'm missing something. Also, do headshots not kill people or something? I'm also getting a ton of graphic distortion. I only got to play for about 20 minutes so i'll give it another chance, but i'm kind of don't want the game coming out in two weeks if it's like this.

Also, WHY IS THE FONT IN THE GAME THIS BIG . I'm playing on a high res monitor not a tv.

Systemshocked
21st Nov 2003, 22:52
Go to the installation directory of Deus Ex: IW and right click on the user.ini file.

Deselect 'Read-Only'.

Now run the game and save all the key maps and other settings you wish.

Systemshocked
21st Nov 2003, 22:58
If you go to the System subdirectory of the Deus Ex:IW Demo, and edit the Manifest.ini file, you will see listings of several other maps and locations that will probably be included in the final version of DX:IW.

I.E.
File=(Src=UTX\T3Playground.utx,Master=UTX\T3Playground.utx,Size=200819)
File=(Src=UTX\Airfield.utx,Master=UTX\Airfield.utx,Size=3802215)
File=(Src=UTX\area51textures.utx,Master=UTX\area51textures.utx,Size=3025133)
File=(Src=UTX\BatteryPark.utx,Master=UTX\BatteryPark.utx,Size=2980734)
File=(Src=UTX\BobPage.utx,Master=UTX\BobPage.utx,Size=10122)
File=(Src=UTX\Catacombs.utx,Master=UTX\Catacombs.utx,Size=1557535)
File=(Src=UTX\city.utx,Master=UTX\city.utx,Size=5839832)
File=(Src=UTX\Cmd_tunnels.utx,Master=UTX\Cmd_tunnels.utx,Size=389982)
File=(Src=UTX\Concrete.utx,Master=UTX\Concrete.utx,Size=771706)
File=(Src=UTX\Constructor.utx,Master=UTX\Constructor.utx,Size=201485)
File=(Src=UTX\Dockyard.utx,Master=UTX\Dockyard.utx,Size=1468754)
File=(Src=UTX\FreeClinic.utx,Master=UTX\FreeClinic.utx,Size=503442)
File=(Src=UTX\G_Station.utx,Master=UTX\G_Station.utx,Size=561195)
File=(Src=UTX\Hangar18.utx,Master=UTX\Hangar18.utx,Size=176631)
File=(Src=UTX\HK_BuildingExt.utx,Master=UTX\HK_BuildingExt.utx,Size=712401)
File=(Src=UTX\HK_Decorations.utx,Master=UTX\HK_Decorations.utx,Size=548193)
File=(Src=UTX\HK_Helibase.utx,Master=UTX\HK_Helibase.utx,Size=430181)
File=(Src=UTX\HK_Interior.utx,Master=UTX\HK_Interior.utx,Size=1029980)
File=(Src=UTX\HK_MJ12Lab.utx,Master=UTX\HK_MJ12Lab.utx,Size=579400)
File=(Src=UTX\HK_Signs.utx,Master=UTX\HK_Signs.utx,Size=557689)
File=(Src=UTX\HK_VersaLife.utx,Master=UTX\HK_VersaLife.utx,Size=424128)
File=(Src=UTX\InfoPortraits.utx,Master=UTX\InfoPortraits.utx,Size=110821)
File=(Src=UTX\IonStorm.utx,Master=UTX\IonStorm.utx,Size=974330)
File=(Src=UTX\Jim.utx,Master=UTX\Jim.utx,Size=355089)
File=(Src=UTX\Metal.utx,Master=UTX\Metal.utx,Size=925962)
File=(Src=UTX\MJ12_lab.utx,Master=UTX\MJ12_lab.utx,Size=560858)
File=(Src=UTX\Mobile_Camp.utx,Master=UTX\Mobile_Camp.utx,Size=437592)
File=(Src=UTX\MolePeople.utx,Master=UTX\MolePeople.utx,Size=4744445)
File=(Src=UTX\Moon.utx,Master=UTX\Moon.utx,Size=1342428)
File=(Src=UTX\Moon2.utx,Master=UTX\Moon2.utx,Size=1342428)
File=(Src=UTX\mylevel.utx,Master=UTX\mylevel.utx,Size=3802215)
File=(Src=UTX\NewYorkCity.utx,Master=UTX\NewYorkCity.utx,Size=6590004)
File=(Src=UTX\NYCBar.utx,Master=UTX\NYCBar.utx,Size=952219)
File=(Src=UTX\OceanLab.utx,Master=UTX\OceanLab.utx,Size=1083486)
File=(Src=UTX\Palettes.utx,Master=UTX\Palettes.utx,Size=421024)
File=(Src=UTX\Paris.utx,Master=UTX\Paris.utx,Size=2797050)
File=(Src=UTX\PS2Fonts.utx,Master=UTX\PS2Fonts.utx,Size=347558)
File=(Src=UTX\Render.utx,Master=UTX\Render.utx,Size=88914)
File=(Src=UTX\Rocket.utx,Master=UTX\Rocket.utx,Size=2443671)
File=(Src=UTX\Signs.utx,Master=UTX\Signs.utx,Size=154629)
File=(Src=UTX\SubBase.utx,Master=UTX\SubBase.utx,Size=644839)
File=(Src=UTX\subway.utx,Master=UTX\subway.utx,Size=218433)
File=(Src=UTX\Supertanker.utx,Master=UTX\Supertanker.utx,Size=2727799)
File=(Src=UTX\temp.utx,Master=UTX\temp.utx,Size=89030)
File=(Src=UTX\test.utx,Master=UTX\test.utx,Size=439870)
File=(Src=UTX\TITAN.utx,Master=UTX\TITAN.utx,Size=857750)
File=(Src=UTX\UNATCO.utx,Master=UTX\UNATCO.utx,Size=4406928)
File=(Src=UTX\V_Com_Center.utx,Master=UTX\V_Com_Center.utx,Size=1496835)
File=(Src=UTX\warfarestuff.utx,Master=UTX\warfarestuff.utx,Size=334549)
File=(Src=Maps\Entry.unr,Master=Maps\Entry.unr,Size=4723)
File=(Src=Maps\t3playground.unr,Master=Maps\t3playground.unr,Size=121688)
File=(Src=Maps\M1_Seattle_APCorp_Exterior.unr,Master=Maps\M1_Seattle_APCorp_Exterior.unr,Size=687951)
File=(Src=Maps\M1_Seattle_CorpCampus_Exterior.unr,Master=Maps\M1_Seattle_CorpCampus_Exterior.unr,Size=1285099)
File=(Src=Maps\M1_Seattle_CorpCampus_Int.unr,Master=Maps\M1_Seattle_CorpCampus_Int.unr,Size=1119413)
File=(Src=Maps\M1_Seattle_Mercenarybar.unr,Master=Maps\M1_Seattle_Mercenarybar.unr,Size=1001005)
File=(Src=Maps\M1_seattle_mercenarydistrict.unr,Master=Maps\M1_seattle_mercenarydistrict.unr,Size=3951703)
File=(Src=Maps\M1_Seattle_Refinery_Mercenary_Entry.unr,Master=Maps\M1_Seattle_Refinery_Mercenary_Entry.unr,Size=4284629)
File=(Src=Maps\M1_Seattle_Refinery_Order.unr,Master=Maps\M1_Seattle_Refinery_Order.unr,Size=2151448)
File=(Src=Maps\M1_Seattle_Refinery_Polluted.unr,Master=Maps\M1_Seattle_Refinery_Polluted.unr,Size=3340187)
File=(Src=Maps\M1_Seattle_Slums.unr,Master=Maps\M1_Seattle_Slums.unr,Size=2806975)
File=(Src=Maps\m1_seattlehub_sector1.unr,Master=Maps\m1_seattlehub_sector1.unr,Size=1576885)
File=(Src=Maps\m1_seattlehub_sector2.unr,Master=Maps\m1_seattlehub_sector2.unr,Size=2686900)
File=(Src=Maps\m1_seattlehub_securityoffice.unr,Master=Maps\m1_seattlehub_securityoffice.unr,Size=710196)
File=(Src=Maps\m1_seattlehub_WTOterminal.unr,Master=Maps\m1_seattlehub_WTOterminal.unr,Size=2049917)
File=(Src=Maps\Please_Dont_Cut_Our_Funding.unr,Master=Maps\Please_Dont_Cut_Our_Funding.unr,Size=2837620)
File=(Src=Maps\M1_Seattle_APCorp_LAB.unr


I'm not sure but some of this looks like leftovers from Deus Ex 1.

Systemshocked
21st Nov 2003, 23:00
If you go to the Content\DX2\Conversations\English subdirectory of the DX:IW installation, you will be able to read all (if not most) of the possible conversation threads in the ENTIRE GAME of DX:IW.
Just open the file ConText.eng in a text editor.
It amounts to more than 80 pages of material.
ConText.eng lists Goals, Triggers, possible Choices, Character names, and all of their conversation.

If you run a search, you'll even find all the conversation related to the demo (i.e. Ms. Sak and her Guards, Sid Black, etc.).

PointlesS
21st Nov 2003, 23:03
I hope so...I wouldn't want another ocean lab...

NuclearOctopus56
21st Nov 2003, 23:06
I'll tell you guys, i'm kinda depressed. Yes, i had too much invested in this game, thought it was going to be god and all. But shouldn't it at least be the equal of the first DX? I remember playing that demo and just being blown away, it had more depth in a signle level than most complete games are able to muster. And this IW thing? Ugh. It seems to me that the designers (cough cough HARVEY) entirely forgot or didn't see what made the first game great. Yes it was the open ended gameplay, yes it was the facinating story, that was the meat and potatoes. But the UI, the numerous nuances and subtleties are what gave the game its flavor and really made it a classic. All of the little touches (managing inventory space, skill sets, even the way weapon mods work) have been stripped away. But they didn't stop there, they then tore out ANYTHING that gave the game any sort of distinction beyond just being "open ended." Only one ammo type: needlessly simplified. No reloading: needlessly simplified. UI designed around being both obtuse and uniformative: needlessly simplified. Even the way in which you activate augs/biomods (have to scroll through them all rather then allowing them to be hotkeyed?) has been foolishly reduced.

The source of the problem is obvious: the console. The team saw the rather negative reaction to DX: The COnspiracy and decided they didn't want to be reviled like that again. So they started justifying to themselves "well, DX was really about all of it's nuance and subtle depth...it was really just about being able to have multiple solutions to problems." So they started whilting the game down, taking off chunks. "People don't really enjoy a deep combat system, they enjoy the ability to choose combat from a list of possible problem solutions." So they gutted the combat system to become: click at the red things until they stop moving. No strategy, no depth. You have certain number of "combat points" (ammo) that can be expended in different ammounts/speeds (weapons). Combat stops feeling realistic, it starts feeling lame and simplified. "People don't really enjoy hacking, they enjoy being able to choose hacking from a list." Instead of being exposed to a fairly convincing hacking UI, one built around various skill sets and equipment designed to make the player feel like a hacker we get this crap. Click on the computer--now you are a hacker!

Ugh, so i've rambled alot, i could go on more. But my point, as i've said a few times is this: the game has been overly simplified, to the point of loosing the nuance and depth that were essential to integrating the "open ended gameplay" into a satisfying experience. In DX, the depth and complexity in each of the different paths (stealth, hacking combat etc) each felt different, due simply to the fact that each had nuance (different ammo types, complex weapon mods, skill sets, well developed hacking UI, seperate picks and multitools). Now we just get "choose your play type from a list, then click click click." The different paths don't feel different anymore. It's like the designers started with David (DX) then proceed to chip away at it and whittle and remodle until they were left with the "core gameplay": a block of marble. Indeed, the heart of DX was open-ended gameplay which is ok, but you need intircacy and complexity to make it great.

I'm sorry Harvey, but I really hope Warren comes back as lead designed for DX3. You've managed to seriously miscalculate what made your own game valuable, and head down entirely the wrong path. Argh, i'm so upset. I just hope that a few last minute tweaks can get thrown in to at least smooth over the pc version to make it feel less like a fisher price game.

dave9191
21st Nov 2003, 23:10
Ok, been waiting for this game since DX 1 came out. Loved the first one and loved what Ive been hearing about the sequal. And the demo kinda left me with mixed feelings.

First of all the system, 1.1Ghz, 256 RAM, GF 4 Ti 4200 (8x AGP).

At 640x480 the game look crap, but runs good. At 800x600 runs good and looks good. Havent bothered going up any higher till Im back on my computer :)

The controls are over simplified. They are taken from a console and put onto a keyboard. I hate this, but its whats happening with many games today.

Its a little dark, but it could have been the cheap monitor I used.

The cut scene sub titles are too big for the PC. The interface doesnt leave that much for you to see unless you got a nice big screen.

Loading time wasnt too bad, but the problem is that its a small area that loads and I get a feeling there might be a lot of loading in the game :( If they had a map the size of Liberty island it would be several loads between the sections.

Something that annoyed me was the shadows. You dont cast one... ?

And no more headshots ;(

Now for the good things. It is Deus Ex, many ways of getting thigs done, lots of replayablity, great fun. There are some obsticles, like the ones above, but they might be fixed for the full game, and if not, you can learn to live with them. The physics is impressive and I spent about 15 min just throwing things around and seeing thing roll and tumble. I liked the fire and how the bodies fly of rooftops when you throw them off <blushes>. It feels like Deus Ex with a simple control system and much nicer graphics (but not spectacular ones).

I dont think that this is going to get the same awards as the first one, and I dont think that Im in as much of a hurry to get the game, but I am getting it when it comes out and I hope it will be one of the best games that I play.

Systemshocked
21st Nov 2003, 23:15
I killed a guard with a headshot, but it was a Double Barrelled Shotgun at Close Range.

Headshot kills are possible. Just more difficult.

Also, if you change the difficulty levels, you might find it harder or easier to kill people with headshots.

If you are running Windows XP, go to your My Documents folder, then look for a recently made folder named:
"Deus Ex - Invisible War Demo"

In that folder, you will find a USER.INI file. Right click on USER.INI and DESELECT the 'READ-ONLY' flag.

You'll be right as rain.

See this thread (http://www.ionstorm.com/forum/viewthread.asp?forum=AMB_AP619612110&id=34444) for more details.

However, I have just tried my own advice, and it works, initially, but when the Demo shuts down, it turns the file into one long character string, I.E. all of the newlines are deleted from the file.

I would recommend just editing the file directly and then making it READ-ONLY.

:D

HOTLEAD
21st Nov 2003, 23:18
After playing around with the demo for a few hours and my fears about the changes to deus ex were right on. The only thing is its worse then i thought it would be. Sorry if these complaints are repeats.

1. Universal Ammo. Simply doesnt work. I hate it. There is no number to see how much ammo, there is only a bar and each weapon uses a different percentage of the bar.

2. Main Interface. I think its MORE clumsy then the pervious version. MASSIVE FONTS. SIMPLE subinterfaces make it less immersive.

3. TINY level. wow. i cant believe it. The vast feeling of the orginal is gone. I feel confined and bound by the small levels they have created. This takes away from the freedom of choice

4. MASSIVE graphic requirments. I had to put settings to medium low and i was still getting <10fps (2100 (1.7ghz), ti 4400, 1.5gb ram) The textures on the models looked WORSE then in the orignal. This is party because i had to put the settings down but it is still inexcusable.

5. Long load times plus 1min for me and the lvls are so small i cant see why it takes so long.

6. As i said before subinterfaces, such as hacking are rediculous. They feel cartoonish and plain, which makes for a dull console like experience.

7. I ABSOLUTY HATE NO SKILLS. There is no gratification for being able to hack computers faster and having more options when they are hacked. Everything is universal making the gameplay even more plain and boring.

8. No head shots. Unrealistic and annoying.

9. No toggle for crouching. i hate games that do this there is no reason. This was implemented to make it easier for consoles. I for one have the skill to hold down teh crouch key and move about. UTILIZE THE ADVANTAGES OF THE PC, thats why we play on it. If we wanted to play to console standards I'd buy a freeking xbox but i choose PC because of the options.

10. There is some sort of bug, which resets my controls every time i load. hopefully fixed in the final version.

11. I hate no inventory. The system now is more clumsy and annoying it was easier to drag what items you wanted onto your belt and rearrange them there if i liked.

12. Other little interfaces like reading a book. I right clicked on a book and it brought up massive font in a blue screen. WTF im reading a book not a computer screen.


All of these things make for exactly the opposite of their intentions. Immersion. There simply isnt any. None of these changes make sense except for on the xbox and I dont give a **** about the xbox. After playing the demo i cant describe how dissappointed with it i am. I knew i wouldnt like some of the new features but damn this is pathetic. Ive lost a lot of faith in the entire DX team and if it wasnt for the story i wouldnt be buying DX IW.

Psychotext
21st Nov 2003, 23:21
Originally posted by GingerNinja
S.T.A.L.K.E.R oblivion lostI'm not an avid gamer anymore (I run my own business... no time :( ) but I have been keeping an eye on Stalker and it looks like it will be truly special. Anyway, back to mourning for Deus Ex and what it could have been .:eek:

aerelorn
21st Nov 2003, 23:46
It's kind of sad that even though S.T.A.L.K.E.R. 100% hype at this point and there's not one iota of proof that it'll be any good, after playing that demo I'm now looking forward to S.T.A.L.K.E.R. more than DXIW.

GingerNinja
21st Nov 2003, 23:46
I have now played the demo and frankly.


I am not gona buy it unless its vastly changed

My Pc basic specs are :

3.2ghz P4 with HT
1024mb DDR Ram
ATI 9800 radeon Pro 128mb Graphics card



Can someone/anyone PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE tell me why it runs slowly on 1280 x 1024 :O
That is just unacceptable considering the size of the level AND the fact that there are artifacts EVERYWHERE and the textures are POOR in places and ADEQUATE in others.


I DO NOT WANT TO PLAY A CONSOLE GAME ON THIS TANK OF A PC!




I expected so much more.



*me crosses DEIW off my christmass list :P
seriously though. This is stupid. I didn't even have the motivation to finish this small portion of the game.

It has lost all its appeal




I do hope you people have realised all this and the game is beter. Because everyone will know the truth once the game mags and sites get their reviews in.



And I bet the game has a great story as well, pity it plays like a arcade game and a poor one at that!





Sorry to make you feel bad but as someone else said, its unacceptable to treat your PC audience like this. :(

Franly Frank
22nd Nov 2003, 00:13
Hotlead,

I agree with everything you said. I dont give a **** about xbox either. But ION doesnt give a **** about the original fans. Its all about the $. I'm sure they worked it out and realized this would be the most lucrative way. We spend all this cash to get the same thing a console offers on a lot of the new games.

crimson_stallion
22nd Nov 2003, 00:31
Originally posted by sandman441
i got done playing it it runs good on my system the only problem is the mouse sensitivity is was to high it's on 50 percent and if you moved it a little bit it would move way too far. Other than that it was good i found a book that mentions jc and paul in one of the apartments.


amd athlon xp 2500+
1.84ghz
512mb of ram
geforce 4 ti4200

At what levels?

I need a new videocard to play deus ex2 (and other new games). I know by now what cards will run the game, etc, but I don't know HOW each card will run it.

Would it be possible for those who played the game to maybe list their system specs, resolution they played it in, detail levels they chose, and approximarly how fast it ran (i.e. <20FPS, ~25FPS, 30+FPS)?

This would be a huge help.

I practically NEED to play games at 1024x768. I can barely handle anything below 1024x768, so i'm trying to get an idea (now that people have played the demo) of what what type of video card i would need to run it at 30FPS 1024x768 at a good detail level. Anistropic filtering, FSAA and 32bit are not important, but id like other details to be fairly high.

Would a Ti4800 be a better bet for this, or a 9600XT?

KeoC4
22nd Nov 2003, 00:34
Well after downloading the demo... I was not happy.

It ran well, just I couldn't get into it no matter how much I tried. It was like it turned my PC into an X-Box, loaded Deus Ex, removed all the good features and then said 'enjoy!’

To me that demo had 'designed for idiots' written all over it! The reason I don't own an X-box is because I hate consoles (Well for this type of game at least). I like the control of a PC, I like my games complex and I like to play inventory tetris.

Safe to say I cancelled my pre-order and to be honest I'll probably wait until the price drops before I buy it. Hopefully on release things will be much better and everyone will tell me how the real game is nothing like the demo.

What can I say, graphics don't necessarily make a good game, game play does… Shame this demo doesn't do well in either department.

So now I have only two games to look forward to... Pirates of the burning sea and Duke nukem forever. At least I have a while to get some work done now.

Hopefully some of you console fans will like the game, but for me the magic has gone. The original was a masterpiece and the sequel is an insult.

/end rant :mad:

GingerNinja
22nd Nov 2003, 00:40
3.2ghz P4 HT Enabled
1024MB DDR Ram
ATI 9800 Pro 128MB Graphics
120GB 7200RPM Hard Disk
Good sound card and a 5.1 Speakers System


Now this is the *great* part:

It runs with major mouse lag if i go above 1024 x 768
There are very few detail settings really.
And there are artifacts and other errors all over the place along with it looking only slightly beter than deus ex the orriginal + nice lighting.




* means sarcasm



Its trully CRAP

Quillan
22nd Nov 2003, 00:46
Well, I am going to disagree with what seems to be the majority of you. I liked the demo, and had few complaints.
Unified ammo system? No problem at all.

Headshots not killing? So what? I don't kill too many people anyway (playstyle mainly).

Graphics? Looked great to me. I could definitely tell this was a demo, they ripped pieces out of the main game, and as a result a few things will be missing or non-functional as a result. Wait for the full game and see.

Performance? I had no problems, no stutters, no choppiness whatsoever. My system specs are respectable, but not cutting edge: Athlon XP 2000+, 512 megs PC2100 DDR, Radeon 9800 Pro 128 meg Video card, Audigy 2 sound card. The video card IS good, but the memory and processor are midrange these days. I ran in 1024x768, all detail settings to max, multisampling at 4x, and it looked sweet.

Font size? Yeah, it's big. I expect in the full version we will get the option of changing it.

Control remapping? As has been mentioned, every time you change areas it reloads the default keymaps. I adjusted very quickly.

Gameplay? No real complaints here.

Size of the levels? You get two areas in the demo. Neither are huge. But, I want to remind you guys that DX 1 had small areas too. Smugglers hideout, the sewers in Hell's Kitchen, the NSF headquarters, all for example.

Maybe it's just me. Maybe I am looking for different things than most of you. But, from my point of view, I STILL intend to buy this game the day it hits the stores, and I am going to enjoy every single minute of gameplay I get from it.

crimson_stallion
22nd Nov 2003, 00:49
Originally posted by El Padrino
Yeah, but without unified ammo, you'd just pick up the same amount of different kinds of ammo. All that means is that you'll run out of ammunition before switching weapons more often. Unified ammo is there so it only happens once.

Yeah, but it's always good to be able to take tactical decisions, like saving the ammo for your most powerful weapons for later, and using up all your pistol ammo for normal situations, etc. When you run out, you just switch to your back up.

Now it seems like when you run out, you run out. Even for the prod (somewhere mentioned it also uses the ammo).

Thats abit of a turn off..

crimson_stallion
22nd Nov 2003, 00:52
Originally posted by Sherv
Perhaps some of our gripes can be addressed with a patch! If IS is concerned enough with our happiness and the overall evaluation of their product, I'm sure they'll address the outstanding issues (perhaps not gfx quality, but things like locationalized damage, interface options, etc)

I doubt it. Patches very rarely add whole features like this. I think something like locational damage would have to be included from the offset, I don't think its the type of last minute addition you can make with a patch.

Interface issues maybe, but still wouldnt be easy.

The original deus ex had serious performance issues on direct3d cards, and ran like an utter dog on my computer, which was a bit of a beast at the time. I'd say that a patch will probably be released to improve performance for this version as well, but who knows...?

Psychotext
22nd Nov 2003, 00:53
I dont know why but this seems apt right now:


But I, being poor, have only my dreams;
I have spread my dreams under your feet;
Tread softly because you tread on my dreams.Never before have I felt so let down by a computer game. If I had the money I would be putting together a team right now to make Deus Ex 2 what it should have been. It would not have been a Doom 3 or Half-Life 2 beater on graphical ability, but it would have been thoughtful and involving. I cannot remember who said it on which forum but Ion Storm have taken the statue of David, flawed but beautiful and created a lump of marble.

Avid gamers everywhere should feel horror at the loss of what could have been a benchmark game in terms of immersion and storyline.

buzzfunk
22nd Nov 2003, 01:01
Seems like finally people really understand how crappy this pile is. Its been hours since ive played the demo and im still in disbelief.


WARREN, WTF WHERE YOU THINKING???


Once a complete Deux Ex fan i cannot belive that i will actually NOT buy the sequel. Theres no ****in way you will get my ****in money for this ****. I wish somehow all the pc players could boycott the release and let the pc version bomb hard.

Nothing wrong with making a 'consoled' version but do you guys thing we are ****in retarded?

Maybe at LEAST the interface couldve been redesign. I MEAN ****ING AT LEAST. What would that cost 100K? No idea but i doubt it.

THANK YOU ION STORM FOR ****IN THIS UP.

PointlesS
22nd Nov 2003, 01:09
am I the only one who enjoyed the game? granted yes there's a few things that I wish was done differently but I generally really liked the game...

ThorsHamburger
22nd Nov 2003, 01:10
I am suprised they didnt think that someone would get on the roof, they didnt even finish or block off levels.
http://members.rogers.com/seanmo/dx1.jpg
http://members.rogers.com/seanmo/dx2.jpg
http://members.rogers.com/seanmo/dx3.jpg
http://members.rogers.com/seanmo/dx4.jpg

The whole thingseems kinda sloppy and thrown together. I hope that by the time the final game hits the shelves there will be improvements. Because it looks like it could be a great game.

Krynn72
22nd Nov 2003, 01:13
I actually enjoyed the demo. The only major complaint is the big unified ammo one. I ran out of ammo the first time through because i wanted to light stuff on fire, forgeting that somehow the flamethrower uses the same ammo as my pistol. Comeon thats just dumb. I really dont understand the reason behind this, most console games have different ammo types so its not like the console would have made it hard. In fact nothing would have made it hard to do since almost every shooter has different ammo types.

The shotgun's smoke grenade uses the same ammo as the bullets, the stun prod uses the same ammo as the flamethrower which uses the same ammo as the shotgun, which uses the same ammo as the pistol. wth is this?

But besides that i have no other major gripes. I had fun my first times through doing different things for 3 hours straight lolz. Actually now that i think about it i had more fun with the Havok engine than the game.

Yea, no major flaws besides the unified ammo. HOWEVER, the game just doesnt feel like deus ex anymore, more like every other FPS except a lot slower paced. I have now moved it off of my "get it the day it comes out" list and put it on the bottom of my Christmas list. With the better FPSs above it since DXIW is just a lesser version of them. :(


EDIT: I dont know how i forgot this, i guess i just was in denial that the devs were so stupid. But they removed body part specific damage, meaning a headshot will do as much damage as a fingernail shot. Just retarded. So i guess thats 2 major gripes along with the fact that it doesnt feel like DX anymore to me.

Frost Giant
22nd Nov 2003, 01:20
After reading the first few posts I was actually feeling quite good about this demo. Then as I went further and further into the thread I noticed that the dormant bile started to infest all over the place ever increasing in intensity. Well, I feel dissappointed in the demo by what I have read here. However, I am still not ready to condemn the game based on a simple demo which was abviously designed to show off the physics system; I am also aware that some people who have played the demo are simply suffering from a really huge piece of S**T wedged in thier anuses. Furthermore, I understand that in order to supply a demo that is small enough to be practical for download Ion Storm had to make some sacrifices. Such as the locational damage and the textures.

We really have to think about this. Would Ion Storm REALLY be STUPID enough to actually overlook something as important as locational damage? I think not, and if that is the case I would gladly give up the fancy physics for it. Also, if the game *IS* defined by the demo then I will not buy it for $50. That would be utterly UNACCEPTABLE!!!!!!!!! Instead I would wait for it to become very cheap and neglected in the corner of a Wal-Mart shelf covered in dust. Then I would by it for no more than $10 so that I can play it and compare it to the original and proclaim the original as the game that started and ended an era in gaming that will NEVER be matched again since it is almost certain that consoles will infest the minds of all game developers like a plaque. Thus destroying all hope of another good game again!!!

That said, I really hope the demo is just an extremely crappy representation of the game.

F3nyx
22nd Nov 2003, 01:32
Okay, I admit it. I was wrong. No reload, universal ammo, all that stuff - I don't even notice it in the game.

However, I wish I did. The reason I don't notice those things is because I'm constantly occupied just trying to attain any degree of immersion in the game. And I can't. What happened?

Okay, the very first thing I noticed. I move my mouse, and instead of a crisp response, the view lazily begins moving, gets up to full speed, and then slows back down. It's like watching an 18-wheeler in bumper-to-bumper traffic. I didn't know mouselook was so difficult to implement properly...

Now, I didn't believe until now that there was any such thing as a clearly "consolized" interface. Well, they've made one. The controls are completely counterintuitive for anyone who has ever played a first-person game of any kind. Why, for instance, is it so hard to put away a multitool? Why is there no leaning?

Alright, so I decide I want to kill a guard. In Deus Ex, this would be fairly straightforward - sneak up behind him, use knife/pistol/prod. Okay, I'm trying the knife. I knife the guard in the back of the neck. He turns around and yells something. I stab him in the face. He doesn't die, but instead shoots me with his shotgun. I die.

Now, slightly disgruntled, I try the pistol. I shoot him, in the head. He turns around and yells, as before. I shoot him two more times, right between the eyes. Again, shotgun at point-blank range. I die.

Fairly pissed off, I attempt usage of the prod. I hold down the fire key, as stated by the large, ugly instructions. A little lightning bolt connects with his skull and makes crackling noises. I grin, expecting him to crumple. Instead, he flails and yells and makes a fool of himself, and basically does everything except crumple. For like 10 seconds. Did I get a joke prod from Fisher-Price or something? Isn't there an equation that says you need so many volts to arc so many inches? What happened to the original conception of the prod...?!

Later on, I hacked the security panel and allied the turret. Then I strolled outside and watched it gun down enemies. Now, gun them down it did... however, I noticed that they generally took about 20 rounds through the stomach before dying. There's just something wrong with that. I know this isn't a pure combat/action game, but trying to kill people with a wicked arsenal of Airsoft guns is not a Deus Ex thing.

I'm also wondering where the normal mapping went. Perhaps I just haven't looked closely enough, but I remember seeing screenshots - like the one of the gray-haired businessman guy - where the normal mapping was nothing short of incredible. I don't see any of that now... close-ups of character models are almost painful, they all look lifeless.

The game doesn't play smoothly in general. Yes, the emergent gameplay and all that is amazing, but the gameplay has problems at the most basic level. Even jumping doesn't feel right - it's like gravity diminishes at the apex of the jump.

I don't know what happened. Yesterday, I felt like a kid on Christmas Eve. After playing the demo, though, I'm just wondering what happened to the fun.

There's a lot more that's bothering me about the demo that I can't quite put my finger on. Back to playing it for a while, maybe then I can figure out what it is.

[edit]

I also don't like how's there's seemingly some kind of "glow" effect on every weapon. Like, why does the boltcaster need a glowing green light at the end? It's a bloody railgun.

And I can't stand the effect of a bullet striking a surface - it looks like it's right out of Deus Ex 1, or an even older game. It's even worse to see that effect when you're hitting a cardboard box with a knife.

HOTLEAD
22nd Nov 2003, 01:37
Why would any sain developer want to put out a piss poor representation of their game?

Psychotext
22nd Nov 2003, 01:39
Originally posted by Frost Giant
Furthermore, I understand that in order to supply a demo that is small enough to be practical for download Ion Storm had to make some sacrifices. Such as the locational damage and the textures.I dont know how much you know about developing games, but I would be seriously impressed if Ion Storm had managed to remove a fundamental building block such as locational damage just to save some space. We are not talking about deformable limbs here or removable body parts, we are talking about simple damage modifiers based upon the location that the weapon hits on the model. It's really not likely to save space on a download (Please god make me look like an idiot Ion Storm, please). I agree on the textures, it's entirely possible that they removed the hi-rez textures to save on space.

Problem being, given how many people have complained about the speed of the game I doubt many would be able to use them even if they were implemented for the full game. I would love to be hopeful at this stage. I pray I'm wrong and that they just dropped the ball on the demo. I just can't see it though.

nacr0mancer
22nd Nov 2003, 02:05
Guys I think it's an early vertion of a demo that was realeased a long time ago but was given to file planet. So thats why i has many bugs, hopefully its not the lates build.

Frost Giant
22nd Nov 2003, 02:06
Actually Psychotext, it would take a little extra space to put locational damage, because Ion Storm would have to add extra text or coding to tell the game how to act when an NPC gets attacked in different places on the body. I also know the importazce of releasing an accessable demo because high speed internet is not available in my area. Not all people have the luxury of waiting mere minutes or seconds for the demo. Some of us have to wait for 20 hours or more to get it. Talk about excruciating!

HOTLEAD, perhaps that would be because they are trying to make the demo as small as possible. Otherwise, I don't know.....I just don't know.:(

Psychotext
22nd Nov 2003, 02:17
I certainly do appreciate that there is extra code involved, but I also know how much code you can fit into a few kb of executable. I really cannot imagine a company making that decision.

Especially given there is plenty in the demo folders that isn't actually used by the demo!

Edit 1 - By that I mean pretty much all the text from the entire damn game. Which is my opinion is A: Lazy, B: Stupid that it isn't held in at least HEX but better compressed / encrypted.

Edit 2 - Damnit I've just read too much of it and spoiled a huge chunk of the story. Grrr.

Jesus, P.I.
22nd Nov 2003, 02:17
Originally posted by nacr0mancer
Guys I think it's an early vertion of a demo that was realeased a long time ago but was given to file planet. So thats why i has many bugs, hopefully its not the lates build.

Lack of localized damage is not a bug. It is a design flaw that is quite possibly enough to ruin the whole game experience. Can somebody who thinks this is a good idea PLEASE explain this whole thing about getting rid of location damage, because I just don't get it.

C-Tzar
22nd Nov 2003, 02:27
Textures, yes. But regional damage implementation will NOT affect overall size by ANY discernable amount. The actual code makes up a TINY fraction of a game's size. The textures and sounds are the culprits. The problem is they made a console game and tried to lie to us about it. It is a dumbed down, barely functional POS. :mad:

Frost Giant
22nd Nov 2003, 02:27
Originally posted by Psychotext
Which is my opinion is A: Lazy, B: Stupid that it isn't held in at least HEX but better compressed / encrypted.

Edit 2 - Damnit I've just read too much of it and spoiled a huge chunk of the story. Grrr.

Are you reffering to hexodecimal? I thought that was only implemented in two places on a computer: Media Access Control (MAC) addresses and memory addresses. Interesting, I guess you got me............beat??

HOTLEAD
22nd Nov 2003, 02:28
I can't imagine the extra coding for localized damage would take up more then a few megabytes. That would be very minimal to the already substantial file of 200 and some odd MB. Plus the extra space would be well worth it. But just think about it localized damage isn’t something you just leave out, its part of the core gameplay. It would be like taking out jumping, it just doesn’t make any sense. I'm noticing a lot of denial around the forums, which is expected after that atrocious demo.

OrioTecc
22nd Nov 2003, 02:28
i was a quite disappointed atfirst, cos it was a bit unfamiliar and i thought it felt cramped. however the more i think of it and the more i play it, im starting to like it...just took some getting used to. ofcourse, its not as good as DX1, but all in all its a neat game.

Psychotext
22nd Nov 2003, 02:38
Originally posted by Frost Giant
Are you reffering to hexodecimal? I thought that was only implemented in two places on a computer: Media Access Control (MAC) addresses and memory addresses. Interesting, I guess you got me............beat?? No mate, binary files can be represented in hexadecimal on computers (Take a look at a exe in textpad or something.) Obviously the computer can still do the conversions but you are a lot less likely to open the file in a text editor and understand what it is going on about. You are right about MAC addresses and the like, as that's really the only place most people have anything to do with hex values.

FuriousNoob >:-(
22nd Nov 2003, 02:40
I don't understand these complaints:

Universal Ammo: To me this makes SO much more sense than the way it was in the original. C'mon guys - who wan't baffled in the original on why you couldn't get the crossbow bolts to fit into your 10mm pistol or the GEP rockets to power you prod. This new way is obviously a realistic improvement.

Controls constantly remapping themselves:
And this is PROBLEM. Give me a break. I personally find it immersive when I spend 10 minutes perfecting the ideal set of customized controls so they can be reset 30 seconds later - how else could we experience the supreme blessing that is the key bind page over and over again?

Repeated Headshots don't kill:
Waaaaaaaah!!! Cry me up a river. I hated in the original how i would plan the perfect approach and meticiously line up my shot and squeeze off a well placed round just to see the wuss fall from one measly headshot. Besides the year is ~2070; people drink more milk now so it takes more rounds. Gosh - i must "dumb" everything down to you people.

Excessivly Large Font:
My gosh - surely u must be joking. So you're trying to tell me that when u frob a book and you have to scroll down 60+ times to read 4 sentences the font is too big? What - just because the books more resemble a vertical banner there's a problem?

Controls/Interface
I personally thought it was silly in the orginal how i could simply holster my multitool without accessing any menus. The new setup of having to pull out a weapon, select the weapon in the menu, and holster the weapon just to put up the multitool was a stroke of genius. As is the toggle crouch key. Oh an no leaning. Good riddance. I personally can't stand this "strategy" or whatever you drunks call it. I'll have none of that in MY game.

Thank you devs for this work of perfection.

Sci
22nd Nov 2003, 02:41
Ion Storm really let me down on this demo. First things first: I got a lot of mouse lag which was driving me crazy, and that didn't help my opinion of the game. However, what bothered me most is...

This demo has "console game" written all over it!!!

It's obvious that this game is tailored more to the Xbox, and that really, REALLY pisses me off. I am seriously considereing cancelling my pre-order of the game.

Also, I constantly said that reloading should have stayed, and now that I have seen the demo, I know now more than ever that I was RIGHT!!

I'd go on about what I dislike about the game, but I'm getting too depressed to even think about it :( :( :(

I'm going to cry and get drunk.

El Padrino
22nd Nov 2003, 02:41
Well, from what I remember playing before going to class, I didn't think too much of it besides the nice little lighting effects. I've only played it for like ten minutes, but that should be enough time to lead someone in. I think the main reason I wasn't as happy as I wanted to be with the demo is that it sort of just throws you into the middle of the game without too much of an idea of who's who and what's going on. All you know is you've got to get some sort of aircraft. No real set up and orientation to the world like DX1's demo, which had you going up against terrorists on Liberty Island in a world plauged with the Gray Death. That's a lot more compelling than going to get something for some guy you don't know after some lady you've never really been introduced to just tells you to. No real motivation there. Yeah, you can approach it in various ways, but there really insn't too much of a reason given to make me interested in it story-wise.

Anyway, that's my theory. Disappointment due to lack of "grabbing" by the demo.

If we started at the beginning, where everything is getting good and a lot of people are being introduced to us, I think it would've been a lot better. Assuming the writers have gone with a well structured narrative.

The lack of headshots being more effective thing, though, is just wrong. Morally wrong. Are pistols destined to be nothing more than glorified glass destabilizing tools or something?



Originally posted by Psychotext
I'm not sure that makes sense. If I spray smg all over the place I want to know that I can go back to being sensible if I run out rather than suddenly being left with no weapons at all. In the old game I could change my tactics and go for long range kills with the sniper rifle etc.

In this one I am screwed cos I'm not living long with a knife.

Well, it might not make perfect sense what I said. I haven't had any sleep for over thirty hours or so, which isn't fun when you have a lot of work to do (it's not so bad when you're just sitting around). But basically, what I mean is that say the game has 5 clips total, two shotgun and 3 pistol. You run out of pistol bullets and then you switch to the shotgun, until you run out of that. With an equilivant amount of unified ammo, the only difference is that you'd be able to use one of those weapons more often than you would with two different sets, and you'd only run out once. I think I'm being redundant, but my eyes are for some reason burning right now, and have been since around 6AM Hawaii Time.

F3nyx
22nd Nov 2003, 02:49
Heh, I was about to flame FuriousNoob - what the hell are you thinking/smoking, and all that - but then I read a little more closely :p

Franly Frank
22nd Nov 2003, 02:49
Originally posted by nacr0mancer
Guys I think it's an early vertion of a demo that was realeased a long time ago but was given to file planet. So thats why i has many bugs, hopefully its not the lates build.


I hope your right. But I dont have much hope.

The game isnt bad but its nowher near the level of the original as far as gameplay is concerned.

Unified ammo? Meter bar for ammo? is this a joke? Maybe by the time your halfway through the game you can figure out how to accurately gauge exactly how much ammo you have left.

How could you get rid of leaning?

When the price drops to $30 and I buy the game I would like to be able to move the hud to the side or bottom of the screen.

Will Theif 3 be plagued by this same type of butchering?

Furious: lol, classic post!

Psychotext
22nd Nov 2003, 02:50
Actually I'm even more annoyed about the game script being unencrypted now. I dont know how much of the total game is in there, but if it is all of it then it really would not be too difficult to trace back through the file and provide a number of scripts that detail every single potential result in the game and the events that lead up to that result.

I pray that this isn't the case or we will see the full story and endings of DE2 on the web before the game is even released.

jonaswakefieid
22nd Nov 2003, 03:05
Doesnt anyone love this game :(
please tell me someone somewhere thought that some of these were good ideas that actualy IMPROVED the game not were tolerable mistakes
No locational damage
Universal Ammo
No reloading
Ne leaning
Interface
Is there anyway to kill an enemy in one hit at all?
Please tell me that something in the gameplay is good.
I dont want it to be tolerable because deus ex ruled I want it to be awesome. I wanna say "Holy Smokes Its SAVIORIFIC."Its like there testing us to see how many things that no one likes they can do before we stop likeing the game

Someone tell me its awesome i dont care if your lieing im becoming increasinglly depressed.
For a couple seconds I thought furiousnoob had something positive to say but alas :(

Psychotext
22nd Nov 2003, 03:05
Originally posted by El Padrino
Well, it might not make perfect sense what I said. I haven't had any sleep for over thirty hours or so, which isn't fun when you have a lot of work to do. (it's not so bad when you're just sitting around) I can appreciate that, I recently started running my own business so I certainly know the feeling! (In fact I had actually given myself a couple of days off to truly enjoy this game so that might be partially why I am so annoyed).


Originally posted by El Padrino
But basically, what I mean is that say the game has 5 clips total, two shotgun and 3 pistol. You run out of pistol bullets and then you switch to the shotgun, until you run out of that. With an equilivant amount of unified ammo, the only difference is that you'd be able to use one of those weapons more often than you would with two different sets, and you'd only run out once. I think I'm being redundant, but my eyes are for some reason burning right now, and have been since around 6AM Hawaii Time. I get where you are coming from. But essentially whichever way you look at it you are taking choice away from the player. I actually used to like knowing that certain ammo types were rare. It meant I only used them when I really had to. With this current system I can use my favourite weapon all the time, knowing that genericammo1 will be around somewhere for me to pick up. I suppose it wouldn't be such an issue if I didn't have to waste an entire pistol clip on a "headshot". I wouldn't even mind so much if I could get an estimation of how many shots I had left with a specific weapon. I just can't explain it, but I, like many others here gave the new system a chance - but feel it is a step backward compared to the old system.

Tassadar5000
22nd Nov 2003, 03:06
This is a sad sad day for gaming :(

Luckily, it means I don't have to upgrade much :D Maybe I'll just take a cheapo 1.5GHz computer so I can play morrowind better.

PointlesS
22nd Nov 2003, 03:09
is there a way to turn off the view bob? this is exactly like sof2 and jk2 where the view bob makes me sick to my stomach...

Luffy_Muffkins
22nd Nov 2003, 03:09
Just finished the demo..

Here's my opinion as an avid fan of the original deus ex, and big shooter and rpg nut.

The premise is good, the story i can see, is going to end up being quit solid. The atmosphere is also farily well done and i can feel like im "In" the game world (especially that bar). Kudos, i like the look of the game.

I have some gripes with the graphics however.. The textures are incredibly bad, and Alex D' s (WOW COOL NAME , NOT) face is jagged in places...considering that max payne 2 could come up with some convincing human beings, i dont see why a MORE hyped game which will be released months later, couldnt improve the quality of the people even a little.

When i get even remotely close to a wall my weapon becomes hidden , and or stuck in the wall. This is disgusting. Im glad they made a half assed atempt at collission detection for the weapons, but honestly i dont want to see it..I would like to KNOW where my gun is at all times, and what ends up happening when you are navigating enclosed spaces is that your gun bobs left and right and flickers on and off so much that you cant even keep track of it . JUST KEEP THE GODDAMN THING ON MY SCREEN, IS IT SO MUCH TO ASK?

We all know that the unfied ammo supply and hit detection are SUCH AWFUL design decisions that they dont even need discussion...wel well im out of nitrogen canisters for my flamethrower, ah well why dont i just cram a 10 mm clip in there...AH There we go FLAME ON!

No reload animations either...Nice job. Is this 1995 all over again or am i missing something?

Oh, and the gun models are pathetic..I've seen more detailed, convincing and well textured models out of fan made half life mods..And i am not kidding in the least. They remind me of Quake 2 models in every way. THe shotgun espeically is one ugly piece of **** if ive ever seen one.

Now dont get me wrong, the havoc physics rule, and as i've already stated, the ambience is kick ass in that bar...plus the voice acting is top notch, yadda yadda the multi route missions are fun, yadda yadda, but with all the other crap that is wrong with this game...i just dont care.


Now I am 2.4 Ghz P4 with 512 DDr ram and a Radeon 9800 Pro 128 mb

I have played the Doom 3 Alpha with better frame rates and stability at higher resolutions than i could with this DX2 demo...same with the shoddy half life 2 alpha...When i move the mouse, it feels like it "hangs" for a second before moving so i am constantly "under water." The original deus ex was crisp, resonsive and it made use of an effective, clean GUI that was designed specifically for PC users..

which brings me to my next point

This is not a PC game.

At all..

Have no illusions, this is the most clear console title i have ever played since the Bargain Bin residengt evil 2 "THE PC version, featuring ridiculously difficult keyboard only control schemes, and utter dissinterest by the designers in facilitation of the needs of a PC user.

We upgrade our systems constantly so that they can be taken advantage by newer, improved game technology, not outright INSULTED. The terrible frame rates, coupled with the underwater slow responsiveness, make me feel bad about my system..and i dont like to feel that way after investing so much money in it..

So its back to playing those three levels of doom 3 for me, and blowing the **** out of the same zombies over and over , becausse you know what? I enjoy every second of it, and thats more than can be said for this game, which urinates on the grave of the once beloved Deus ex 1. I spit on your eidos and ion storm and whoever else was responsible for this xbox garbage.

Sci
22nd Nov 2003, 03:11
I've tried the demo again.

I am cancelling my preorder.

F**k you, Ion Storm. You've crushed my hopes for a fantastic game.

Luffy_Muffkins
22nd Nov 2003, 03:24
Good man. Lets forget about this mess. Doom 3 and Half Life 2 loom on the horizon and we have already seen that they are the real money in the FPS industry..

Darko
22nd Nov 2003, 03:38
I'll divide my impressions into a pros/cons list

I'll start with cons

I thought it was interesting how when walking into the greasel pit, the guy gives a code to disable your guns, thats cool and all, and i think its really good. BUT, why the hell does that code also lock down your knife? i mean i understand how guns would be all hightech and would have some firmware on it for security measures, but how would you be able to lock down a knife? it doesnt make sense to me.

The graphics when up close are very pretty. But as soon as i take one step back it looks very blury and ugly, a few steps further back and its really hard to tell if i'm looking at a chick or a dude.

The demo was a little buggy, i couldnt change my settings, it would always revert back to defualt. *I fixed it now :)*

I shot the guard four times in the head before he died, i guess locational based damage

The demo was very short. the first deus ex demo was nice and long, gave you a good idea of the game. this one restricted you from places and it ended very shortly.

You are able to jump way too high. The gate outside i was able to jump right over! No need for the keycode or multi-tooling, i simply jumped right over the fence door! Infact i started to build a little stair case of boxes found outside outside the greasel pit, but the i accidently jumped over the whole freaken fence! Wow! so much for my creative little stair case, no need for that! that took away a lot of the excitement of multitooling the keypad or making my stack of boxes. :(


Pros:

The greasel pit was very cool, lots of little interactions, just like deus ex 1 :). I loved the idea of betting on greasels and making cash.

Just as Ion promised, there are many ways to complete this mission. I find myself playing this single level over and over again looking for different ways. If the amount of replayability on one level is this much, I wonder how many times i'll play the actual game!!


Overall, the demo has met my expectations, but has not exceeded them. I will be satistisfied when i play the whole game! :)

Frost Giant
22nd Nov 2003, 03:54
Originally posted by Tassadar5000
This is a sad sad day for gaming :(

Luckily, it means I don't have to upgrade much :D Maybe I'll just take a cheapo 1.5GHz computer so I can play morrowind better.
So you're not interested in other upcomming games such as Thief III, HL2, Knights of the Old Republic, and Vampire the masquerade: Bloodlines? They should all be great games so I certainly would keep them in mind when getting a new computer. I just don't want you to be desappointed, you know? Since I hate DISAPPOINTMENTS I just thought you might too. Although I could be wrong, I guess.

ThorsHamburger
22nd Nov 2003, 04:09
IT seems that the devs had given you the choice of combat approach, but whats the point of giving you that option if combat seems so difficult compared other FPS games. I played t through the first time and used the turret to kill everyone and made it to the end no problem. This time I went into the office , and faced the woman myself. I said she was small time and the cutscene ended and they started firing at me. I was dead in seconds. I know this game is supposed to be an RPG mainly, but combat should be more fun and a more viable option than this.

Agent D
22nd Nov 2003, 04:11
No preorder for me. I really wanted to be wrong about the whole "dumbing down of combat" but my fears have been confirmed. Ok, the graphics are great, the game world is great, the physics are great... but everything tactical about the first game is gone. Man, this could have been so good, but instead, we get something that feels like a crappy console port of an arcade shooter. :(

Guess I'll play through Deus Ex 1 again. At least there I can lean around corners and kill people with a pistol headshot. I can also reload my guns, and switch ammo types. I might pick up Invisible War when it's $30, but playing it is going to feel so much worse knowing what it could have been.

F3nyx
22nd Nov 2003, 04:35
Alright, I gave it another run-through and here's some more detailed impressions:

- Ragdolls are very well done. Physics system is good in general, though sounds are a bit wonky at times.

- During conversations, and when you're hearing an interview at the news station, there are delays of about 1sec between lines of dialogue. I.e., one character will speak, then the other will respond late.

- The thug girl in the Greasel Pit talks sometimes with one voice, sometimes with another. Easy bug to fix, I'm sure.

- The lighting in the pit is excellent, as well as the fire effects. The greasel fight was a bit boring, though...

- The textures on Alex Denton's face seem very blurry, especially compared to, say, the Order Seeker.

- Normal mapping. I think I can see the normal mapping on walls if a light source is moving enough, but it's subtle - too subtle. I can't see any normal mapping at all on the characters, which is disappointing.

- Combat needs overhaul. The SMG seems to be the only really effective gun - pistol sucks without headshots, and the shotgun lacks stopping power. Knife also needs to be more deadly. The models for the SMG and shotgun are blatantly uninspired - it would be nice if they looked a little more distinctive. And, having tried it for myself, I still think that having flash bombs and smoke bombs on the SMG and shotgun (respectively) is a terrible, inexplicable idea and an abuse of secondary fire (not every gun needs it).

- Mouse lag still sucks. I think I'm also seeing lag with the keyboard interface, at least in menus (I know I saw it in the inventory menu).

Oh, and I liked the music throughout, especially the main menu music. Did anyone notice they redid "The Illuminati" for the credits? :cool:

I'm not without hope for this game, but it's not ready for release IMO.

Stone(Dxediting)
22nd Nov 2003, 04:36
[04:30] Stone: automatically hacking atms?gaurds that need to be shot several times before they get angry?head shots that take 20 bullets?what exactly have ISA been doing the past few year?
[04:30] Hanh: playing Daikatana

Jesus, P.I.
22nd Nov 2003, 04:37
Originally posted by ThorsHamburger
I said she was small time and the cutscene ended and they started firing at me. I was dead in seconds. I know this game is supposed to be an RPG mainly, but combat should be more fun and a more viable option than this.

And does it raise no red flags that calling her smalltime will cause her to open up a can of whoopass, while giving her two slugs between the eyes merely elitics a warning?

Oh but I'm just being ungrateful, I should be falling over myself to shovel out fifty dollars for this product. Yeah. :rolleyes:

I hope the developers pay the price for their arrogance.

Mwhore
22nd Nov 2003, 04:38
The demo is bad :(

It's an X-Box game now :(

I wanted so much to like it, but Im going to pass on it. Not going to buy it at all.

The control is terrible (mouse sensitivity) the damage is worse. I shot 2 people point blank in the face 3 times before they went down.

I opened a flamethrower on the lady in Apt 22 several bursts while she shot me and did more damage through my flames.

Im so disapointed.

Breadman
22nd Nov 2003, 05:04
Okay, now that its finally working, here are my thoughts. First let me start off by saying I am still gonna be buying this game after the demo. So now lets begin...

Graphics: Good. I don't know what everyone is complaining about. My only graphical complaint are the models arms... very, well, unanimated. The people themselves with their normal mapping actually look okay. Lighting isn't "awe-inspiring" but still better than all the games out right now. Doom3'll beat it of course but yeah.

Sound: Good... diaglog is good too but I've noticed some odd jumpiness like somethin was recorded one day, then another day but the guy was closer to the mic... same voice but a little different overall sound. I can deal with it though.

Physics: Good clean fun stuff, haha. I just love physics in any game so hey, I'm happy no matter what.

Story: Still exists, which is why I'm gonna buy the game... I just can't get enough of the story. Very interactive world lots of choices etc, yeah, just cool.

Action: Deus Ex fails in this category. Fails miserably. Damage modeling of individual parts should 100% be manditory in this day and age. It's a crime it isn't there. There was absolutely no reason to take it out.

ConsoleyComments: Yes, it deffinetly feels more like a console then its predecessor... but I guess I don't hate it as much as some of you guys. I just recently beat HALO PC, always play GTA3 PC and GTAVC PC... I guess I'm just getting used to the console stuff. The whole text size thing doesn't bother me, the HUD doesn't bother me... I just don't see what all the complaints are about. When people read books in DX1 it didn't flip open a little book for you. It was in an electronic fashion as well =P

How it Runs: My system specs are as follows:
2.0Ghz Pentium4
GeForce4 Ti 4400
512mb DDR RAM
Windows XP Home
... and though I said the graphics were good, they are not near good enough to slow my game down as much as it gets slowed down. I'm getting less than 15fps most of the time. I should be getting closer to 30. This game honestly looks like Ion Storm didn't put a thought into optimizing for the XBox and the PC. Blah.

Overall Feelings: I'd rate this thing a 75% at the stage its in right now as a demo... and assuming the story is as good as the last, which is why I'm buying it, the full version should get around an 83% by me. Ion Storm really screwed up more things in this game than they fixed, but not as bad as many of you are saying. I just hope they hear me and everyone else and try to fix stuff in patches etc...

mgeorge
22nd Nov 2003, 05:28
Well, I just gotta say that I think a lot of people aren't giving this game a chance yet. I spent about 2 hours playing, and while it does have problems, I think there's a lot of potential there. And you have to remember that everyone is just getting a small taste of the whole enchilada right now. To be honest it looks like crap on my system, (1.3 gig Athlon, 384 sdram, geforce fx 5200) and I am a bit dissapointed in the games steep system requirements. A lot of people won't even be able to play the game. I also hate not being able to lean, or reload as well, but already I've seen multible ways to get things done, (like the original), lots of stuff to find, (like the original), and lots of places to explore for just a demo, (again, like the original). Those little spider bots are very funny (and useful!), and getting to throw stuff a people is a hoot as well. Some of the dialog with NPC's is just as hokey as the original (which I also like), and it seems to me that the story is what's going to drive this game more than the graphics or the way weapons look, (like the original.) I'm an old coot (51) and the reason I liked the first DX was because of its creativity, open ened play, and the fact that you actually had to use your brain to accomplish things, and I have a feeling that this game while different from its predecessor, (which isn't always a bad thing,) may turn out to be a lot better than it's getting credit for right now. And no, I don't work for Eidos or Ion Storm.

dirigimaster
22nd Nov 2003, 05:37
Originally posted by Meteor_of_War


And i am curious, could people who have tried the demo not only post what they think about it gameplay wise, but how it runs on your systems and please list your system's specs.

Thanks.

Athlon XP 1800+
AIW Radeon 9800 Pro 128MB
512DDR 2700
Win XP Pro


Settings. 1024x768, 1xmultisample, high high high. Runs fine, 1280x1024 I think is just generally screwed up for everyone.

sachfigura
22nd Nov 2003, 06:35
Summing up my particular gripes:

1) The font - it's way to big, and you have no way to adjust it anywhere.

2) The graphics choices - Hey, I actually think it looks rather nice, especially since I haven't upped my video card yet. However, can't we chose our resolution and then change it?

3) The keymapping - I felt (and still feel after playing through twice now) that we don't have control over enough things through individual keys. Who else would like to be able to holster a weapon through a single keystroke?

4) The physics - The engine in beautiful, but I did get the feeling that Alex was an olympic weightlifter. Jumping over a fence in a single bound? Throwing metal barrels and tires (those things are heavy) onto the roofs of buildings?

5) The inventory - jeez, this one hurt. I do really, really, really like using the MOUSE to do things. It would also be nice not to have the system tell me what buttons to push to do something every single bleeding time I return to the same window (or door, or a credit chit lying on the ground).

6) Weapons - Seeing someone dance on the end of the shock prod for 3 seconds is not cool. It's actually rather disgusting. I want to play without torturing people like that! The riot prod from DX1 was meant to incapacitate someone - not make them dance like they're on hot coals.

7) Light - The pistol flashlight is supposed to do what again? And the biomod that only helps within 5 feet of your eyes?

8) Distances - Did anyone else have fun flushing toilets from the doorway of the bar? I was standing well outside the stalls and still able to flush. Go telekinesis!

Oy...I still really want to see the full game, but this demo makes the whole in-game world feel so very, very CONSTRICTED because of the interface/level design.

El Padrino
22nd Nov 2003, 06:44
It's weird. I have a pretty slow computer compared to some of you. 900MHz Duron. 384MB RAM. Radeon 9600 Pro. Oddly enough, at 800x600, the game ran fine with high settings. Then I turned down the resolution to 640x480, which makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, and it, as expected runs fine. I haven't been able to notice the difference between the two resolutions, so it doesn't really bother me. I would try 1024x780, but I'm afraid It'll look so much better I'll get really spoiled and want to play through a choppy yet beautiful game. Of course, still no sleep for me, so I may not know what i'm talking about.

Anyway, finally finished the demo, and found it fun. I forgot we weren't allowed to reload anymore, and that there wasn't any numerical represenation for ammo (I personally don't really notice ammo until it's in short supply). BUT, that lack of numerical representation is, in my opinion, a huge mistake. When I switch between my pistol and shotgun, I want to know how much more nanites are being used up per round. What good is ANY ammo system if you don't know how many shots you've got left.

The demo was, for the most part, not engaging. Why they'd send us THAT level to demo instead of something far more interesting escapes me. It escapes me like the lack of reason to pull off a headshot excapes me.

Other than that, and my failure to get drunk, the overall gameplay was just groovy. That's my opinion after playing it without sound (my speakers stopped working).

And I'm ready for more talk bullet!

Tassadar5000
22nd Nov 2003, 07:06
Originally posted by Frost Giant
[B]So you're not interested in other upcomming games such as Thief III,

I keep hearing about this thief series...But I've never actually played it. Is it any good?


HL2,

LOL No :D


Knights of the Old Republic, and Vampire the masquerade: Bloodlines?

Never heard of them. At all.

Seoulstriker
22nd Nov 2003, 07:26
I HOPE ADAM SESSLER WAS RIGHT IN SAYING THAT DX:IW IS THE BEST GAME OF THE YEAR DEMOED AT E3

iloved2demo
22nd Nov 2003, 07:30
Lot of complaints here, so heres my POSITIVE 2 cents:

Walk up to the holographic dancers, you can change music, and surprisingly the music has a vocalist. While the music is odd, it has a futuristic feel to it.

Activate the Public Access Terminal before you enter the bar. It contains about 4 SPOKEN messages, including an advertisment, and a radio spot that sounds like it has come right out of Grand Theft Auto's talkshows. This is a big step up from Deus Ex, where I am sure that the messages were text only, but now they are read out to you. If you look away from the terminal while it is speaking, it will cut off - very nice.

Graphics are great. I think people who are not getting good graphics are probably not using a DX9 card. One cool thing that integrates the graphics and physic engines is the light tube above the pool table - jump into it to make it swing and observe the way it affects the light in the room, and the shadows of objects and people in the room. Also, if you go into the graphics options, click the downward arrow to get to the section dealing with texture quality's and set it to high (if your PC can handle it) - it's not lowres textures like some have been moaning about, it is just the way the demo has been setup for your specs.

Go down the elevator shaft and out the door. You can go down into the sewers where you will encounter a couple of sewer greasels and find 50 credits for your trouble.

In the assassinate the greasel mission, you can either use your multitool on the door, which will alert the occupant who will attack you, or you can go down the elevator, out the door, up the ladder to the balcony and shoot the greasel without having to enter the apartment. In theory if you have a couple of spider bombs on you you could chuck them through the windows!

You can payoff the woman to get access to the flightpad, or you can go in all guns blazing. If you choose the all guns blazing route you can choose to stun the guard outside and throw him into the dumpster, and in fact you can do that even if you dont go in all guns blazing.

And the interface is much improved from the first game. Some have complained that the text is too big, well for one thing you can turn it off, and bigger text is always easier to read. Where the previous game had a revolutionary inventory system, which meant you could carry something as long as it would FIT into the inventory, the new system has 10 slots. So on one hand you can carry 20 soda cans, on the other you can carry 10 heavy weapons instead of 2...

Explore , interact and experiment. This demo doesn't really touch on the story of the sequel, which was the driving force of the previous game.

iloved2demo
22nd Nov 2003, 07:38
I would like to add one more thing about this whole "it's been consolized" comments.

I own a PS2 as well as a PC. Console interfaces are not inherently better or worse than a PC interface. I don't recall any part of this demo where the interface was not pc friendly. The truth of the matter is I would prefer a console interface in combination with the mouse - but maybe that is because I grew up with arcade games and 80's computers when the games didn't use the mouse - it was joystick all the way.

AlteredGlyph
22nd Nov 2003, 07:40
Well, here's my final thoughts:
The spiderbombs were super cool, so was the turret you could take control of, the voiceacting was awesome, and that little book about the denton brothers was pretty cool. The prod sucked, it should have been short, and sweet. A lot of people have whined about trying to open the door, and then their multitool gets pulled out. Well, just read the extremely informatice interace, and it'll tell you. The boltcaster owned, although it's hard to find, it's totally cool. The last time I played, I killed off the guards one by one, and when I finally faced Ms. Sak, she put her hands up and begged me not to kill her, which was really cool. The flamethrower rocks, as do the greasels. My two biggest beefs are the interface and font size. The interface is half mouse, half keyboard, and that really sucks. The font size is just too big. Also, the jumping is a MAJOR problem. But still, the game rocks.

Baryonyx
22nd Nov 2003, 07:41
OK... here's my feedback on the demo. I'll provide my system specs up front:

Pentium IV, 3GHz
2 GB RAM
NVidia GeForce FX 5900 Ultra 256 MB (4.35.20.21, 10/23/2003)
Windows XP with all updates applied
Running at 1600x1200

1.) Had a bit of a wierd rainbow effect going on when I first loaded up. This was solved by adjusting brightness and contrast. Now, I thought adjusting brightness and contrast should affect the hues of colors I see on screen... not turn it into a super-saturated rainbow. While fixable, it may just be a driver issue to be looked at.

2.) The rag doll physics were rather... interesting. I killed Gob-zilla's trainer in my first playthrough, and her body crumpled to the ground resembling Plastic Man... her upper torso was twisted and stretched out over her lower half. Very strange physics indeed.

3.) There's something seriously wrong with the main character's facial textures. I mean, Alex D. looks OK in the ads and whatnot, but come game time, in the text scenes, he looks like that guy from American Idol... what is it... Clay? The geeky one... yeah. Anyway, the facial textures on the main character don't look that great. The female model looks even worse... quite a shame.

4.) I found it curious that I could shoot at guards and not have them aggro. I also found it curious how the Spider-bots had such atrocious aim and damage. I tossed one at the Greasels in the sewers, and I eventually gave up and went for them with my SMG after the Spiderbot screwed around zapping them for three minutes to no avail.

5.) I found it very annoying not being able to walk off ladders, instead having to jump off. This was a gameplay mechanic that worked fine in the first DX, and should have been left alone here.

6.) I'm OK with the single ammo type, if ammo was more prevalent and did a bit more damage. That, or something is wrong with the damn flamethower, because foes just refused to die (usually because some misshapen chair got in the way of my fire stream).

7.) Why am I experiencing any slowdowns? I have a still new (only 4 months old) half-decent rig, and yet I've got tons o' slowdown.

8.) The voices sounded awfully tinny and electronic. They definitely didn't have an organic feel like the original DX had. Further, FIX THAT FONT. It is absolutely awful. At the very least, make it changeable.

Other than that, I enjoyed the demo, and am still looking forward to DX:IW.

sandman441
22nd Nov 2003, 08:24
i played the demo about 3 times the first time i didn't like it, the second it was allright, and the third i didn't have any problems getting out guns or anything i hate not being able to reload but it is only a minor problem and i will probably get used to it. The guns need more power and headshots need to be in the game it's not that fun to shoot somebody in the head 2 or 3 times and he won't go down i also tried the electro prod that was terrible. It would be nice to see how much ammo you have number wise i mean i ran out of ammo a few times. Is it just me or did anybody else have fun throwing boxes and bodies all over the place?

IconoclastDX
22nd Nov 2003, 08:56
Ok, that was a joke. I didnt even finish playing it becasue it was such a boring pain.

But first, the good.

-It played fine on my machine (2000+, 512, GF4TI4200).

-I thought it looked good as well. Sure it wasnt flashy, but thats fine with me.

-For some I liked the voice acting.

-Im ok with the new invetory and HUD. And NO. Its not hard to holster your weapon. All you have to do is hit the hot key its bound to. No. biggie. Or if you totally against hotkeys (then id ask why you playin a PC) all you have to do is roll the mouse button a few clicks and L-click again. Hardly takes anymore time.

Nice musical score as well.

Lipsynching VERY much improved.


Now the Bad

-Handles sloppy. If you move the mouse quickly you can DEFINATELY detect a responce lag (~.3 sec). DEATH to a FPS of any flavor.

-I cant belive they didnt put grappling in this game! Noone makes a FPS anymore without grappling. Unless its totally a straight shooter.

-A steath game withough being able to sneak up on someone and club em in the head is like a shooter without ballistics. Dispatching enemys quitely DEFINES STEATH! Not having jit locations is a devolution of about 7 years and also spells DEATH to any FPS. ESPECIALLY one trying to pawn itself off as a tactical smart-mans game. What were you guys thinking?

-Taking out reloading takes out an important feel of the game. Beside, good reloading animations give a game major "cool" points. Important to gamers, believe it or not.

-Unified ammo...erg fine. Whatever. maybe it will save some cpu cycles or something useful.

-Combat. This is the main reason why I stopped playing the demo. I played it on the most difficult setting and still couldnt get killed by guards unless I really tried. Maybe this is a demo thing but combat was pathetic. I could easilty get 3-4 rounds in a guy before he'd even turn around. And then hed stand there for another couple before even aiming. Even in DX1 theyd run if shot.

Once, past the door to the air-pad, I STOOD and let 3 guys pummel me just to see how long I would last. Nearly 10 seconds, on impossible setting. Not right. Oh, and aint it great how that chick with a T-shirt can take 6 bullets to the chest. Ugh.

Jovena
22nd Nov 2003, 09:02
Now please correct me if I am wrong ( and I am sure you will )
Most people me included thought the graphic pics we have been seeing prior to the demo release look pretty dang good correct?
The demos graphics look good but perhaps not quite as good as the latest batch of pics? So could we conclude the demo is a early build and the actual game will blow it away?

I would like to think both the pc and the console version will rock...I am trying to be very optimistic. Oh btw anyone know how you access the 2nd level of your inventory without having to open it up everytime?
And also how do you move items to the front Inventory slot area?

UKchaos
22nd Nov 2003, 09:28
First of all, while certain aspects are rather dissapointing , i dont think its as bad as many people are making out.

The first thing i noticed was the chunky new interface. The traditional HUD is now replaced by an intrusive, made-for-console one. Yuk! The problem isnt really the design per se, but that fact that its so bloody big!. Luckily you can make the large inventory and biomod sections transparent (or completely invisible) to take the edge off it.

So not a good start, but once i was used to the new inventory system, i actually found myself really immersed in the game. Despite the reletivly small size of the demo level, there are lots of things to interact with and I spent a good hour just exploring and collecting information. I thought the greasel fighting in the bar was a nice touch as was the apartment with the caged greasel (those poor kitties!).

Combat and hacking (among other things) have been heavily simplifed for Xbox users and as a die-hard pc user i was put off by this. However if you disliked the complexity of the original, you may actually prefer it.

The A.I of NPCs seems reasonable, but sometimes defies logic. Killing, tresspassing and conversation choices naturally give the appropriate reactions, but you can mess around and only receive verbal responses. I repeatly turned off lights, threw chairs at guards, knocked over carefully stacked barrels and openly stole from strangers only for them to say "this is your last warning!". Its better than no reaction at all but id rather have real consequences instead of idle threats. The difficulty settings dont appear to change the A.I at all.

Visually, the game has a unique and atmospheric style. I like it. The textures and polycounts arent spectacular but are made up for by some really lovely real-time lighting effects. The environments are rather generic, but are nicely detailed throughout.

Performance wise, its reasonable on my mid-range system but the environments are small so im not convinced its a good indicator. By default the resolution was set to 640 and detail levels all to high. I decided to sacrifice shadow and charactor detail for a better framerate and higher resolution. Theres also an option to enable 'bloom', which gives everything a fuzzy, glowing effect.

So overall, a tidy little package, ill be interested to see how the full game pans out.

Malach
22nd Nov 2003, 10:03
I was going to buy a 200 dollar graphics card to play this game. I was willing to end up actually spending 250 dollars so that I'd be able to play this, of course other games would follow that would need the card, but it was this game that made me want to do it.
After reading these reactions, I think I'm glad that my Geforce4 MX can't run this game. The Deus Ex name won't be ruined. Furthermore, the fact that I can't run this game is stupid. Lot's of people have the MX cards. Neither the screen shots nor the trailers made the graphics look so impressive that my machine shouldn't be able to run the game. Though I'm not going to quote I believe people have mentioned that they can play the Alphas of Doom III and Halflife 2 on their MX cards, and I've seen their screenshots, they look like I should have to buy a new card, and yet apparently I don't?
It only seems to make sense that the game was so intended for Xbox that it doesn't matter if anyone can actually play it for PC. Well I think I'm just going to go ahead and buy an Xbox instead of a new graphics card. The video game market seems to be going downhill lately anyway. Nobody releases a PC game anymore that hasn't been pushed ahead far too quickly by company execs, has too many bugs, and is really a great game. If the PC is being abandoned by game makers, well I won't bother keeping up with the hardware, even though it's really ridiculous that I should be unable to run DX:IW. The thing I can say about consoles is that they stay consistent hardware wise.
Deus Ex was not a very good transition onto the consoles. It was a game whose complexity made it great, but that complexity could only be truly realized and taken advantage of on the PC. Deus Ex is a series that should have been ported to consoles, not built for them.
And finally. There is no excuse for the inability to kill people with a pistol bullet to the head. My gameplay style was a silent assassin. I would carry a sniper rifle, a stealth pistol, a combat knife, and a shotgun just in case with the occasional one time use rocket and a handful of different grenades. For a game that encourages multiple play styles...it apparently doesn't from what I've read. Of course I can't play the game. And I've heard it said that the game does in fact have the damage zones on enemies, but it still takes multiple bullet shots to the head to take them down. That and unifed ammo and no reload...both are just bizarre concepts on their own, just give the player a rocket launcher or flamethrower and be done with it, there's no use for other weapons if they have no tactical advantage. If pistols are weak because they're a starting weapon...this isn't Diablo! Why should pistols even exist if thats the case! Why aren't shotguns standard issue then! I liked using a pistol! It was a versatile and effective weapon that I used through the entire game, so now it's just a starting weapon to hold you over till you find a flamethrower?
Cancel DX3. Hell cancel this. If you're really making DX3 do everyone a favor, just make a remake, exact remake of the original game, with all the same aspects, nothing different, except with the new engine for better physics and graphics. Y'know, everyone thought Specter and his branch away from Romero and his bunch were the small group who got away from that disaster area and proved themselves better. They fooled us I guess. They turned out just as bad, they just happened to get lucky and create Deus Ex. Deus Ex was obviously just a gift from God, and Ion Storm had nothing to do with it.
The Score:
IS: 0
God: 1
PC Gamers: F****d

I'll get an Xbox and rent it. Maybe. Maybe I'll just get KOTOR for pc and rent it IW for my friends Xbox.

Five.Pointe.O
22nd Nov 2003, 10:18
Originally posted by Jovena
So could we conclude the demo is a early build and the actual game will blow it away?


I highly doubt that ANYONE involved in making games would put out a demo of an early build, just a few weeks before the final game gets released. I hope that it's just an early build, or that they had to remove lots of stuff (such as locational damage..) to keep the demo size down, but like others have said, they can't just remove such a huge feature.

Everything I've read so far really concerns me, but I'll get the demo in OXM sometime soon (hopefully), so I'll get to judge it first hand... Also, I'll be sure to post my opinions of the Xbox version ASAP, since the first (and many) of the reviews were for the box.

I -REALLY- don't understand why there's no locational damage, nor can I understand how anyone let something so major, simply "slip through the cracks".

DELAY DX:IW for as long as it takes to put in locational damage, and remove the stupid: "NPC-gets-shot-in-face-and-doesn't-go-aggressive". If I was Warren, and I heard about what they were trying to do to my BABY (DX1), like any good father, I would grab a giant log and begin thoroughly beating all persons involved. I can understand ALLOWING them to put in unified ammo, and even the giant text and HUD... I just can't understand the rationale behind removing one shot kills to the head.... my god....

IconoclastDX
22nd Nov 2003, 10:19
Hey looky!! They R going to have a "put away item" button. Whell thats one concern resolved. 3,655,451 to go!!

Q__d=
E__d=MoveForwardBackward 1.0

O__d=
I__d=

;will be put away item <--------------------------
R__d=

;currently toggle
X__d=

C__d=Crouch

Esquire
22nd Nov 2003, 10:26
OK, lets hope catman doesn't delete this post

i have played the demo yes i have, i'm not going to type my opinion of the demo because i haven't played the demo.

All i'm going to say is that the people who made this game better be keeping a close eye on this game so that they can fix all of these stupid problems for European release. Especially the graphical problems and the Locational Damage. Don't know if there's enough time for the NorthAmerican version :(

and this one last thing...

IONSTORM, YOU'VE GOT 4 WHOLE MONTHS TO MAKE THIS GAME THE WAY IT SHOULD BE FOR EUROPEAN RELEASE. :p

IconoclastDX
22nd Nov 2003, 10:36
Hey look whatelse i found. Instesting references to headshots.


; this is in degrees per second, it should never be larger than 90
HeadShotCloseRate=.1
; this is in degrees/second, it should be pretty low. it is used to determine when to reset any
; autoaim headshot drift based on the player not holding the controller stead enough or aiming to0 fast
HeadShotResetTolerenceAim=1
; same as above, except this is moving to fast (in feet per second)
HeadShotResetToleranceMove=1
; this determines at what angle in degrees we are close enough to the head to autoaim towards it
HeadShotAutoAimStartTolerenceAim=.153
; same as above, except this is how close target has to be to engage head autoaim (in feet)
HeadShotAutoAimStartTolerenceDist=30
; same as above, except this is how close target has to be to engage head autoaim (in feet) when zoomed
HeadShotAutoAimStartTolerenceDistZoomed=300

Esquire
22nd Nov 2003, 11:49
i keep expecting some Eidos/IS guy to jus' pop up and say, "don't worry folks, this was all a joke"

or in a few weeks time another demo to come out that is exceptionally good.

btw, was there a light-meter in the game?

oceanskie
22nd Nov 2003, 11:56
p4 2.8 gb
512 mb ram
radeon 9000 <= can some1 tell me the approx. equivilant of gforce plez?

i must say the lack of localised damage is extremely disappointing. im a cs player myself so i'd like fps adjusted similar to cs (controls etc) and headshot is one of the essence of cs which makes the game such an classic. so for me shooting the guy's toe or forehead makes no difference is unacceptable.

and the font is simply ridiculous when implemented in a serious game such as dx. it's more suitable choice for games like super mario bros or something like that (yeah, the console kinda ruined it)

perhaps we can all hope for a patch immidiately after the initial release that addresses these isses.

al_bundy
22nd Nov 2003, 12:10
ok folks here's my two cents.....

right, first things first, if you read the forums today you'd think the game is the worst ever. It's not!

First impressions: quite different look and feel to deus ex 1, the large hud on the screen is disorientating at first but very quickly you get used to it. The graphics, i feel, are pretty good. I have a AMD XP 2000+ with 256 DDR and a ti4400, and i have the settings on high at 800x600, and i think it looks really well. It is a slightly poor frame rate, and the mouse sensitivity isn't quite right, but again you get used to it very quickly.

The story seems to be pretty good, and i felt very immersed when the demo ended, leaving me gasping for more - surely this is a good sign?? Also, the credits at the end, showing some of the screen shots and more info about the game, got me very excited, reminiscent of deus ex 1, and remember this is AFTER playing the demo.

Then, of course, there is combat. As many of you have already said this is where the game is let down. It feels very much like one of those old-school FPS when you shoot someone five times in the head beofre they die, and this terrible looking red paint (blood) comes out of them, and i don't remember much ragdoll physics but i've only played thru it once. Much has been said about the one-shot kill absence, and this is a definite negative. I remember sneaking in the shadows with my cross bow in DE 1 killing the big commandos with one, silent shot and if this is going to be missing then i don't think the makers can shout much about the "sneak" aspect, unless they literally mean you sneak thru the whole game and kill no-one.

In conclusion i would give it 7/10. Remember guys it's only a demo and once you're involved in the full game you might feel a lot better about it (if you decide to buy it of course). After finishing it i still felt i wanted to buy it and am just hoping the developers make the necessary changes before release or release a patch soon after. Things like the large font and slight faults in speech don't bother me, and there is no doubt the combat element (esp the one shot kill absence) is it's big negative. But i wouldn't say it's terrible guys!

GingerNinja
22nd Nov 2003, 12:22
I convinced myself to play it again.


And its not as bad as i first made out!



But its still very very bad in my opinion.




I can live with the interface and allmost everything else.


But there are a few things I can't put up with.

1. Combat:
Its a joke. Simple as that. Right from haveing to shoot them in the head many times to the rag doll being the worst I have ever seen. Let me explain that one:
When being shot, the enemies do not react much at all. Yet as soon as they die they catapult into the air from my pistol shots as if being hit by a masive wrecking ball!
Its just unacceptable

2. The unified ammo system!
I thought I could get used to it. But I can't. Why:
Because it completely gets rid of half the weapons.
Why keep the pistol when I can have the other huge weapons that take the same ammo!!

3. The player physics and small physics problems:
I mentioned rag doll before. But thats not all.
I hate the way when you throw something it only drops in front of you. I hate the way the player can jump so high and falls so strange. I hate some other small things that i can live with

4. No leaning!
Simple Leaning was a great feature. Why has it gone?!

5. Gfx needs optimising or sumthin!?
Wont run smooth on my 3.2ghz, 1025mb DDR ram 9800 PRO mean machine :O

6. Imposible to use stealth!
I loved stealth in the first game. Its gone. Well, this on its own is enough to make me leave the game on the shelf.
I mean come on. Just make the knife sillent and kill faster so they cant shoot you if you catch them from behind.
And whats the point in that tazzer thing. Its useless. If I wana kill them I will shoot em!






I think thats about all the problems I have with it. + the font size.


I have to go now. But basically. This still could be a great game if they just implemented some of the stuff I stated above. :)

OldGrandad
22nd Nov 2003, 12:28
Don't get me wrong, I like the basics of it but the UI is so console orientated that it is to damn fiddly to achieve what DX1 did in a nanosecond. AI is bad, the local damage is bad, the UI awful, now for a [i]little positive insight. The graphics, only marginally better (considering the age gap), the storyline is hard to guage on this little tasting, but I DO hope it gets a lot better, ragdoll, interaction, well that is about it. It certainly does not deserve 7/10 for the PC at the moment, maybe for the X-Box.

5/10 MAX unless they really pull the stops out.

OG

MDent
22nd Nov 2003, 12:41
http://mark24.theforumisdown.com/images/baldy.jpg

He looks a bit rough...

http://mark24.theforumisdown.com/images/alex.jpg

GingerNinja
22nd Nov 2003, 12:50
LOL,



scank but true.


The demo had alot of problems!

Psychotext
22nd Nov 2003, 13:08
That's actually pretty funny. :)

DarkForge
22nd Nov 2003, 13:59
So... am I the only one who has no problem with the font at all? :eek: :eek:

KeoC4
22nd Nov 2003, 14:29
Well, this morning I got up again to play the demo. And for once I started to get into it. I customised all my controls. (I was annoyed that I can't use my 4th and 5th mouse buttons though) and then started from scratch.

From the demo I didn’t have much scope to hide in shadows so I went with the all guns blazing approach.

Firstly, I found that storming the greazel room could become interesting to storm, throw in the concussion grenade, throw in your spider bot, run in and shotgun the grezel and voila. Okay not as good as the possibilities in the first game but it works.

Still the unified ammo system does annoy me a bit, but the ammo indicator is so bad its stupid. I still can't gauge just how many shots I have left. What's wrong with using a number instead of a bar?

When running around and not being critical, the graphics don't annoy me too much, I'm presuming the full game will look better.

As for mouse control, with a bit of tweaking it worked fine with me.

If they can only change that large font and make the close combat weapons viable, then I may be able to get into the full game. If the storyline is there and the full version has bigger levels with loads of areas to explore, then it may just be okay.

Still, I cannot see the sequel being better than the original, but so much negative stuff has been posted (even by me) and I thought I'd try to be an optimist for once.

Ion Storm, please read all the comments and make adjustments to the game based upon what we are saying… At least make the changes optional.

Quillan
22nd Nov 2003, 15:09
Ok, I have a comment and a question for those who are complaining about the lack of damage localization on the NPCs. The question is, have you tried this with multiple weapons and get the same results? I have seen the pistol, a shotgun, a SMG and a flamethrower, as well as the knife, prod and baton in the demo. Is the shotgun doing the same thing? I saw someone in an earlier post say they got a 1 shot kill with the shotgun.

The comment is that I think you are all looking back at the past through rose colored glasses. In DX1, weapons had different damage ratings. That rating determined how much damage was done when it hit. The most popular weapons in DX seemed to be the sniper rifle (MASSIVE DMG), the crossbow (MASSIVE DMG), and the 10mm pistol (LARGE DMG). You could not always get headshot kills with the stealth pistol, since it had a damage rating of 8 instead of the 14 the regular 10mm sported. The base damage on the sniper rifle and the regular darts for the mini crossbow was 25. By the end of the game, if you had maxxed the skill for the weapon, this was increased by 50%. I suspect two things with regard to this demo. One is that the damage localization was not included. Perhaps it had to be left out for space reasons, or perhaps it was causing the technical issues that delayed the demo release and was removed from it for that reason. Wait until the full game gets released and see. The second thing is that I also suspect the SMG and pistol have low damage ratings in this game. They dont give you the hard numbers, so we don't know. But, think back to DX1 and answer this if you can: How many headshots did it take to kill someone with an assault rifle (base dmg of 4)?

On a side note, did anyone besides me notice there is no surround sound switch in the demo? I think that's something else that got yanked out for the demo release. You can control sound volume, voice volume, and effects volume, but no settings for EAX or surround sound.

Also, I burned the demo onto a CD and dragged it over to a friends house last night. He has a computer that is below minimum spec for the game: Athlon 900 mhz, 256 megs PC100, Radeon 9100 vid card, and he was able to run the demo in 800x600 with detail settings at medium. There was a little bit of choppiness, but it was playable.

dave9191
22nd Nov 2003, 15:10
After having several goes at the demo, its ok. Im still getting the game, but I am dissapointed with what I see. Its a console game on the PC. And its Deus Ex without the heart and soul. But once the story line is out, I guess it will be much easier to get into it.

The graphics and so forth should be better in the final product when bandwidth isnt an issue.

AND the univiersal ammo idea sux !!!

Esquire
22nd Nov 2003, 15:13
Damn, alex looked bad in that shot

has anyone gone back to look at the "The Demo Has Been Released" thread...? it provides some very amusing posts....

"i'm downloading! i'm downloading! OMG i can't wait for this demo!"

"this demo's gonna be great! IonStorm has done it again!" etc.

nah i'm only kidding, but still, looking back on them now makes me laugh. I still believe that when the game comes out in Europe, March, it will be excellent. but even if it is not, i will still acquire it. won't pay full price though.

Parsifal
22nd Nov 2003, 15:19
Woefully sad. In respectful mourning for the original I can say but few words.

Amorpheus
22nd Nov 2003, 16:04
Originally posted by KeoC4
Firstly, I found that storming the greazel room could become interesting to storm, throw in the concussion grenade, throw in your spider bot, run in and shotgun the grezel and voila. Okay not as good as the possibilities in the first game but it works.What better possibilities are there in the first game?

DarkForge
22nd Nov 2003, 16:05
The only four problems I really have from the short time I played the demo so far are:

1) Auto resetting controls: I assume this is just a problem overlooked in the demo, but it still got very annoying. Even manually editing the user.ini file did nothing to rectify the problem.

2) Stun prod: While the whole 'electric beam' effect is pretty cool, it took way too long to knock out somebody with it. In addition, the enemy could still be firing at me while I was filling his body with electricity. Even if I circled round him while still firing, he could easily turn and shoot me again. Surely you couldn't shoot someone so easily if you're being electrocuted?

3) Unified ammo: I'm not the only one who has an issue with this, and although it may sound like a superficial problem to some, I'm afraid that I just don't buy it. It also ties into the last point about how long the stun prod takes to knock someone out. I must have wasted about half my ammo just using the stun prod on one person. I swap to a pistol for someone else - and I'm more or less empty!

4) Absence of convo. log: Where was a Conversations tab to keep a record of what had been said? It just wasn't there, which was admittedly a big disappointment for me. In the first game, there could sometimes be useful info given in conversations that were not added to the notes page. I'm quite upset that a conversation log was absent.

***

Other than these points, the demo seemed fine to me. There were quite a few things I enjoyed. The Health Leech biomod was pretty cool, and the Vision Enhancement biomod was actually useful (unlike the first game's version, IMO). Graphics and effects were pretty sweet - I loved the look of the flamethrower's destruction! ;) Also, unlike many other people have claimed, I have no issues with the screen font whatsoever. It looks just fine to me.

And I must have spent at least 15 minutes just standing around listening to the NG Resonance jukebox! :D (A pity you couldn't actually talk to her though).

Overall, I'm satisfied with the demo. It's just those 4 issues mentioned above that are really spoiling it for me. In the full game, perhaps I could even overlook the unified ammo once a cheat is known for an unlimited supply. (What? Desperate times call for desperate measures! :p )

I guess the most major issue is the control reset. This really needs to be sorted. Other than that, I can cope. I still look forward to the full game, although perhaps not quite as much as I once did.

It does indeed seem to be a bleak future, but there is still hope for a brighter day.

bobk
22nd Nov 2003, 16:23
Originally posted by jonaswakefieid
Doesnt anyone love this game :(
please tell me someone somewhere thought that some of these were good ideas that actualy IMPROVED the game not were tolerable mistakes
No locational damage
Universal Ammo
No reloading
Ne leaning
Interface
Is there anyway to kill an enemy in one hit at all?
Please tell me that something in the gameplay is good.
I dont want it to be tolerable because deus ex ruled I want it to be awesome. I wanna say "Holy Smokes Its SAVIORIFIC."Its like there testing us to see how many things that no one likes they can do before we stop likeing the game

Someone tell me its awesome i dont care if your lieing im becoming increasinglly depressed.
For a couple seconds I thought furiousnoob had something positive to say but alas :(

I believe the developers are trying to "encourage" alternate
playing styles by limiting the fun of using guns. I don't think
they want you walking through their game taking people out
with headshots and not experiment with all the other work
they put into the hacking turrets etc...

OrioTecc
22nd Nov 2003, 16:30
Dark Forge: right-click on user.ini --> properties --> uncheck read only.

that fixes the keymapping problem :D

Baryonyx
22nd Nov 2003, 16:32
Originally posted by Esquire
Damn, alex looked bad in that shot
That's he looked in every shot when I played through. Like I said, he looks like that guy from American Idol... Clay Aiken, I think? Not the large guy, the other one. Then again, if you go over the GameSpy and see what they've done to JC... he looks like a damn vampire.

indx
22nd Nov 2003, 16:52
I guess that I am the only person who loves this demo.

I think it's amazing. And yes, I am a fan of the original, but if everything was the same I think this would be too un-original.

The thing I like the best about it so far is how atmospheric it is with the sound effects and the sort-of music. I'm definitely gonna buy this game I thought the demo would be dissapointing.

Maybe there's a pattern? I download the demo not expecting all that much, and then find it's great. And the rest of you download the demo expecting it to be complete utter amazing and then you find it dissapointing.

The only thing I don't like so far is the requirements. I have to run it in 800 x 600 for it to run smoothly. But saying that, I don't have an amazing PC so its all good.

PointlesS
22nd Nov 2003, 17:07
I Love the demo as well but I don't see why everyone says it has bad ai? in the greasel's apartment thing I smashed open the window on the left and the girl came running by to it to check it out...I noticed through my vision biomod that she became more alert then...I also broke though the bathroom window (which she didn't hear...which is fine because I doubt you could hear it in real life) and opened up the door...she ran and checked out why the door opened and found me...the greasel also shot though the door even though I couldn't see it...but the splash damage did a little...imo that's a huge improvement over the previous game...

Viz
22nd Nov 2003, 17:19
The AI is awful and its worse than the originals.. and considering the AI in No One Lives Forever 2 released a few months back, there is no excuse for this.

*SPOILERS ON DEMO*


Okay, .. check this. You have a camera looking down a corridor which has a guard patrolling it. It leads around to a small closed room where the baddie is standing with another guard next to her and a camera on the corner.

Now, heres the deal - I walk to the corridor camera and when the guard is walking away, whip out my tool and disable it (just in case anything gets nasty, which is my intention). Then I walk past him into her office and chat to her.. she informs me that she will only release the chopper (which she has confiscated) if she gets the amount of money she is owed ( a sum I don't have then). I tell her Ill work on the money (when I actually intend to kill everyone and just take the chopper).

I walk outside and CLOSE the door. Therefore the camera inside the room can no longer see me and the camera outside has been disabled. I then walk behind the guard outside and stun gun him. The noise and commotion cause the other two from inside to come out, while I have already left the scene. I walk back in after a short while and they both look at me suspiciously (i.e weapons drawn) but they don't fire at me (they can suspect but they don't KNOW its me).

But as soon as I get near the office door, the camera inside sees me, flashes red and indicates that I was the perpertrator and they open fire.

Now last time I looked, I didn't know that cameras analysed 'noise' through closed doors and made a face print from that data of who must have commited that noise to identify them when they see them again! That was a clear glitch that made no sense whatsoever. And in a demo this size with so little going on, I can only imagine how many other issues would be in a game that is much bigger.

These sorts of complicated issues were present int he first too but for some reason rverything worked perfectly (people complained the AI was poor but I beg to differ). In this way, it almost as if in dumbing everything down, theyve dumbed down the AI for everything and ended up confusing it all, glitches abound.

Heres another classic one - first time around I decide to go the old 'hacking route' In that corridor I described above, there is also a panel in the size that allows you to hack. In that play through, I walked down the corridor, and when the soldier turned the corner, I proceeded to stun gun him right outside the office. THAT time, no one inside came out as if they didnt hear it (its almost as if they only react once the player has entered but not if no one has.. another glitch). I then went back and hacked the panel, shutting off all cameras and turning the outside sentry gun to shoot the baddies.

I then proceeded to open the office door. She sees me and starts firing (she doesn't even know who I am.. she somehow now has connected the outside stungun noise that she did not respond to to me, and NOW has decided to take action!). They chase me outside to the landing pad where they are gun downed by the sntry.

Best part? The sentry gun shoots them and instead of running away, they run towards the gun without shooting and get mowed down! And then one after the other, the others come and die the same way. You could tell me this sort of things could have happened in an AI in the old DX but what advancment have they made in this new game??

There is one last guard down below the landing pad standing outside facing away. He for some reason ignores all this commotion upstairs so I proceed down this vertical stair and pausing half way start shooting him in the head. He proceeds to run in circles, gets caught in the wall, gets caught in the door and then runs around madly underneath me while I shoot him in the head. And then he dies. Wonderful.

Sob, I am listening to the music fromt he game andw ondering whether I should just play the original while listening to it and pretend I am playing the sequel.

EngineerSean
22nd Nov 2003, 17:41
bobk, don't you think that sort of decision should be left up to the players of the game itself, instead of the developers deciding that we shouldn't use guns?

vurt
22nd Nov 2003, 17:44
Has Ion Storm really made any offical statements that this is the final build, and that this is exctaly what the final product will be? If not, then i dont see any point in much of the complaints here. From what i've understand this is just a demo level and it wont even be in the final game, true?

A bit OT, but how MOD-friendly will this game be? Anyone got any info about that?

Quillan
22nd Nov 2003, 17:48
In response to Viz's post **SPOILER ALERT**:

Ok, let's forget the game and talk realism. You are Miss Sak, crime lord. You are in your secure office, which has hired security guards, monitored cameras, and alarm systems, in order to protect yourself. Someone you do not know comes in and talks to you. Immediately after leaving, a guard outside is stunned. You and your guard run to investigate, find the guard unconscious, but no attacker. You look around and go back into your office. A short time later the same visitor returns. The (not in game) guard monitoring the office camera recognizes the visitor as someone who was in the building just before the attack and sounds the alarm, just in case. You are jumpy, the alarm sounds, you open fire. Sounds realistic to me.

Second case, again you are Miss Sak, crime lord. The turret on the helipad opens up, and the radio reports that YOUR hired guards are under fire from the turret on the pad. This indicates either a serious malfunction, or a security system breach. You and your guard are armed and jumpy. An unknown walks into your office (someone who is NOT supposed to be here), so you open fire. Again, sounds realistic to me.

The parts about getting stuck in walls, and running the wrong way, those are legitimate problems. But, I have no problems with their reactions to the first two scenarios.

GingerNinja
22nd Nov 2003, 17:48
Vis:


This is one of the primary reasons I won't buy the game unless there are improvments. I love playing Deus Ex one with just the stun prod and stealth equipment.


If stealth has been made void in the full game with this sort of bul**** then its not worth buying for me. Becuase I simply dont enjoy playing "Just another FFS"

Meteor_of_War
22nd Nov 2003, 17:58
Anyone know how to take a screenshot in the demo?

Driver
22nd Nov 2003, 17:59
I think the AI is wonky. Pathfinding is horrible. Whats the point of making a game with multiple solutions to a problem if all the NPCs are just plain retarted???

I'll say it again, for the 1000000000000000th time? Why was LOCATIONAL damage removed? It does not make sense. I think a sequel should evolve not devolve.

The Half-Life Marines had some fantastic AI. Do you guys remember? Man, I was blown away. Half-Life was released waaaaaay back.

I guess we just have to wait for some game reviews. If magazines end up giving this game a 8,9 or above, there is something very wrong with the current standard of gaming magazines.

:(

volswagn
22nd Nov 2003, 18:18
I have been waiting for this game as long as everyone else. I'm of the opinion that first-person games are best played on the PC, so that's the version I intend to get... Well, intended...

Here's my specs: 1800+ AMD, 512GB, defragged partition just for games, GeForce4 4200Ti...

Mouse lag like I have never seen before in 1024x768. The interface is the most confusing I have EVER seen in a game. Why couldn't they just stick to what they had before? Or something similar. In making this more "accessible" to the console users, they have made it impossible for the PC users.

Plus, I know it's just a demo, but why should I have to reset my preferred control keys everytime I reload or go from one area to another?

This game was supposed to be fun to play. Right now, it's an exercise in frustration. I love that you can throw bodies, boxes, etc... The physics are way cool, but I would never buy this game in the current condition... I really really hope they fix it...

cball05
22nd Nov 2003, 18:45
Here's my two cents:

Good things that they kept from DX1
1) Storyline - although obviously this is a very limited taste, it seems like there will be a lot of choices to make throughout the game. I like how Alex says "I'll think about it", implying that YOU need to think about it.
2) Atmosphere - the dark DX atmosphere was kept pretty well intact, and now transgenics seem to be almost a part of life. I'm interested to see how else society has evolved...

Things they improved from DX1
1) Environments: Much more interaction, especially physics-wise. Fire extinguishers actually put out fires, etc.
2) AI - while still not perfect, AI has improved greatly from DX1 - for example, when I was fighting the guard he kicked a barrel at me and then found a hiding spot.
3) Simplicity - while some simplifications went way too far (see below), I liked some of them - automatic multitooling, etc.

Things that were worse from DX1
1) Unified ammo - possibly my biggest complaint. I fired about 5 shotgun rounds and then realized that I had no ammo. For anything.
2) Body damage - though not a major problem, taking out localized body damage seemed foolish to me.
3) Inventory - seems a little too small, its its awkward to switch items from belt to belt.

Overall: Not too shabby, but perhaps a little too simple. Will attract a much larger fanbase than DX1, but perhaps not one that is as dedicated.

bobk
22nd Nov 2003, 18:46
Originally posted by EngineerSean
bobk, don't you think that sort of decision should be left up to the players of the game itself, instead of the developers deciding that we shouldn't use guns?

The decision to use guns should absolutely be left up to the players. The original DX1 had head shots and sold well I believe. I went through most of DX1 shooting heads. I don't know
why they saw the need to mess with the formula do the degree
that they have. On a positive side though, I do wonder if
they are sitting back and waiting for some of the interesting
game play stories to start rolling in, like stacking all the bodies
and crates in a pile, and lighting them all up with the flame
thrower. Thats good for a few minutes of fun, and I don't
think I have been able to do that in another game.

9of9
22nd Nov 2003, 18:52
Hmm... there seems to be an awful lot of flaming going on here, the internet equivalent of a violent mob of angry gamers storming the IS offices with a battering ram.

I'll start with the good:
The graphics, are excellent - I'm trying to understand people who claim the contrary but, so far, the models are about as detailed as I'd expected and the lighting looks downright stunning. The textures are a bit blurry, but I suspect that is because high-res textures would have increased the demo size twice, if not three times.

Physics, damn nice as well - I just wish I had the strength biomod so I could handle heavier objects, that should be fun :)

The interface has recieved a lot of flame. I, being stuck with the fact that the mouse refuses to move when in the menus, find it very well designed and easy to use. Fonts, while on the biggish side, seem quite reasonable, particularly with a big monitor I always struggled to read the tiny writing on the books in DX1. But it looks very well on small monitor too. The only point I'll agree with is that it really should be possible to drag items in your inventory.

Ammo system has its goods and bads, haven't gotten involved in too much fighting, but it seems to hold out ok - no reload actually seems to work out fine. Prod does take up ridiculous amounts of energy though.

The demo is a pretty small part of the game, so it is hard to judge in terms of gameplay, but it looks very good on the diplomatic front - good dialogue and I liked the parts in the Greasel Pit. It seems that, storywise, this is most likely the Deus Ex we know and love. Considering you can complete the demo without taking out a gun, it looks promising.

AI, I loved - from the guard who regularly tries to tell me to get out (especially when I'm going through others' belongings), to people getting pissed of when you nick their stuff and - I really like this - shouting at you when you bump into them. Again, haven't done much fighting - so can't tell how well they behave in combat.

But, as has been pointed out, there are a good deal of bad points:
The bugs. For a game that comes out in little over a week, the demo is weedy to say the least

Sneaking. Disappointing - no leaning... I just can't figure this one out, you could have even had it on XBox. Still, it is the lesser evil. Then, I disinctly remember reading that there will be a light-meter akin to Thief. May have been the previewer's (or interviewee's) fault, but it would have made a nice addition nevetheless - absence of light-based sneaking was tedious in the original and I was hoping it would be here in DX2. It is after all what first attacted me to it.

Headshots, we all know. I also find it kinda weird that each gun shoots a different grenade on alt-fire. Why can't the SMG fire a smoke grenade or a shotgun a flashbomb? Plus the flashlight *needs* to be separated - you need to get out the pistol if you want to see anything (what was wrong with glowing eyes? I'd trade ambient glow for flashlights any time). Prod takes far too long to knock out.

Keypads, ATMs and computers. I want to be able to use a proper keypad - the way it is just takes away every bit of immersion and satisfaction you get when you punch up the correct code. ATMs are just wrong - they're just one-time hacking devices. Ok, so it explains why can only get money from one account per ATM, but this means there isn't even any way to find someone's account and get their money (slightly more) legally! And I will sorely miss the timer when hacking computers, particularly strange when guards walk past and don't mind you distrupting their security. Besides, it is absolutely no fun without a login and password box (which, again, I presume means it is impossible to find logins lying around, so you don't need to hack). In fact, I don't see any challenge whatsoever in hacking (although I do hope that is only because I've got a level 3 Neurolink biomod).

Finally, there needs to be a way to switch between crouch toggle and crouch hold - I prefer to hold down the crouch button, but the game only allows you to toggle. Ditto for the run/walk - you need to be able to switch it so that you walk normally and run only when holding shift.

In all, good game, but severly rushed. I thought they said they've now got the time to do everything wthout constraints? Take your time, add everything in, take a deep breath and think about what you could do. In any case, I think the current forum response has been overwhelming enough to either shun the devs into working on it for another year or so, or to make them lose any faith in the game whatsoever and leave the project be (hopefully releasing it for free at the same time :) )

Driver
22nd Nov 2003, 18:55
Can someone tell me what the game difficulty slider does? I played on the realistic setting. Does it make the NPC's healthier? Smarter? I dont see any changes.

Did anyone else notice that on FilePlanet, it says "Deus-Ex Invisible War Demo PREVIEW?" So is this a preview of the official demo? :confused:

Klown
22nd Nov 2003, 19:10
deus ex 2 is quite possibly one of the biggest dissapointments in gameing history (stolen from from daikatana? BURN!). it was obviously created for the express purpose of the casual/sub intellegence console gamer. everything has been over simplified to the point that its nearly boring. hacking has no danger factor anymore, lockpicking and keypad hacking have been condensed into "come to a door, press your right mouse key and then press and hold the left key till the door/pad opens. hacking is automatic on all computers and has no timelimit anymore. there are no lean keys, there is no holster key, they have removed reloading completely. they have also combined the amunition, so every single weapon in the demo (pistol, smg, shot gun, stun prod, flamethrower) runs on the same type. and once your out of ammo, all your guns are out of ammo(that means forget the smg or the flamethrower because they eat ammo). skills have been removed. the new hero (alex) is generic and has no defineing features at all(jc denton was a badass with a trencoat, blue eyes behind sunglasses and had a monotone gravel voice which was awsome). there is no locational damage, therefore it takes 5-6 shots with a pistol in the head to kill someone (oddly enough the enemies took 4 shotgun blasts to the face at point blank..)

the interface is horrible and intrusive, more specifically the hud is wrapped around the near center of the screen, and messages from your data link fill up the entire screen with their massive font. the inventory has been scaled back to 6 slots for any item. did i mention the font? its huge for everything. it comes in 2 flavors: rediculously huge and pretty damn huge. most interactions with the interface are not done witha mouse, but with the arrow keys, esc and enter keys (obviously intended for a gamepad).

the graphics are nice for the mostpart, but require unproportionate system specs for somthing that is based on the ut2003 engine. the ragdoll animation is spastic. example: shoot a corpse with the mounted turret. it will try pull its self apart, streching and contorting, but will snap back like an elastic.

theres more, but i think that gets the point accross.

note: the music on the opening is hauntingly beautiful.. very heartfelt and sad. i would call it "death of deus ex" as it seems so appropriate.

Strijder
22nd Nov 2003, 20:32
The first time I played through the level, the most prominent thought in my mind was, "nice technology demo". After playing a couple more times, it grew on me a bit. The game definitely has potential, but I fear it may need more tweaking and polishing before it can achieve the hopes and dreams of fans and newcomers.

However, I realize that Eidos must be facing considerable pressure to get this out by the holidays. If the game absolutely cannot be delayed, there are a few tweaks that may help:

(Hopefully) Quick tweaks
1) Add small numbers along the weapons on the interface, and F1-F6 along the biomods. Nothing big or intrusive, but enough that you can select something without hunting or manually counting down the list.
2) Enable drop and drag in the inventory / weapon mod / biomod screens instead of the odd click to swap or wierd key shortcuts mess.
3) Change the font size in conversations / cut scenes, reduce area of dialog text... the focus should be on the scene / characters, not the 1 inch letters. Perhaps eliminate the background for the dialog if practical?
4) Add weight to bodies and Alex... the weight proportions seem right, but tossing a body is like tossing a rag or shoebox, and jumping feels "airy", for lack of a better description. You don't get a solid thunk either for the body shotput... maybe adjust the bass on the impact sound heavier as well?
5) Reduce time on stunner, possible range as well... stunners should quietly drop someone in their tracks if you get close enough, not make them go through a long drawn out play muttering "oh, this isn't good", "hey, stop that", etc etc until they finally decide they're ready for a nap. Reminds me of a death scene in a bad play rather than a realistic scenario (will he shut up and just die already?).

Additional tweaks (critical, but I don't know if they can be done quickly):
1) Ingame GUI... having icons in the middle of my screen prevents immersion. Is there any way an alternative interface can be added with the more traditional edges of screen layout? This really, really bugged me.
2) Menu overhaul - as I've heard mentioned elsewhere, everything is toggle or arrow based. Could dropdown menus be added where appropriate? (resolution, etc) Savegames are also hard to sort through w/o pictures, real dates/times, etc. Also, more intuitive keys than tab, esc, etc... best means might be just to allow complete control via mouse.
3) Inventory / biomod screens - cluttered, small icons since jammed in middle of ingame GUI screenspace. Could it be enlarged, more focus on items and less on text?
4) Ladders - include tutorial on them if I'm missing something, but I have yet to climb down a ladder instead of falling.
5) GUI animations - yes, it's a nice animation for loading hacking, security console menus popping up, etc... but if immersion is the focus, having a pause for menus and eye-catching animations seriously detracts from my concentration. Just get the content drawn as unobtrusivly and quickly as possible please.
6) Some rare sort of issue with drops to desktop w/o error, generally when loading jukebox music or conversations. I'll try to post the specifics in the technical help thread.

Conclusion:
The game itself seems fairly solid and playable; however, the interface seems to be holding it back the most. If this can be changed now, or in an immediate patch, I think the game can come close to the original. If not, I may pick it up for the story sometime after it hits the bargain basement section.




Favorite scene so far: Throwing a crate down the length of the bar, shattering glasses and bottles. Bartender must have been on nyquil, cause he barely reacted.

buzzfunk
22nd Nov 2003, 20:47
You really wanna know how bad this demo is?

Boot up or reinstall Deus Ex and see for yourself. I just did that myself.

There's nothing wrong with changing stuff. Heck, even streamling isnt that big of a deal.

But as soon as i started playing DE again, i realized why i love it so much. I love all the choices. The menu was perfect imo.

On the positive side you can see how much of a leap the graphics are in the sequel.

But my final conslusion is that DE2 really IS a console port.

If the demo doesnt give us a real impression of th full game then why release it? Why release something that might turn the original fanbase off? Those are the people who will run out on the release date and buy it. I just dont understand.

Too bad.

Frost Giant
22nd Nov 2003, 21:09
Did anyone else take a good look at the second official trailer of the game? It seems to me that there IS localised damage in the actual game because unless I am hollucinating I notice that the player has killed quite a few NPC's with a single shot to the head. Take another look at it for yourselves and draw whatever conclusions you see fit.

Strijder
22nd Nov 2003, 21:10
One additional gripe: The cameras and turrets had extremely grey, murky views... I really couldn't see anything through them except a vague outline of a person in the office.

KeoC4
22nd Nov 2003, 21:57
Originally posted by Amorpheus
What better possibilities are there in the first game?

Lets see.. You could walk in the room and shoot the perosn in the head with a pistol once, and they would die.

Or you could run in with a knife or stun prod and take them out, without having to stand there for 20 seconds attacking them whilst having a grezel paints your behind in acid...

and so on.

Uvorn Knejt
22nd Nov 2003, 22:18
I'm not in particular of the opinion that graphics make the game, (DX1 wasn't much of a looker to begin with) but come on! this is rediculous! Shoddy performance on any resolution and textures of such poor quality that I began to suspect the game was running on software rendering!!

Consoles are to blaim I tell ya'. They should all be packed up and shot into the sun by means of a very large cannon.

Hovewer after much deliberation I have finally concluded that this cannot be the final version and all will be well in the end. If not I will spend my money elsewhere.

Esquire
22nd Nov 2003, 23:30
oh the menu music is great! if only i had the brains to upload it to the internet somehow. if only.....

F3nyx
22nd Nov 2003, 23:34
Originally posted by 9of9
Fonts, while on the biggish side, seem quite reasonable, particularly with a big monitor I always struggled to read the tiny writing on the books in DX1.And you get your books from the Large Print section, right?


Ladders - include tutorial on them if I'm missing something, but I have yet to climb down a ladder instead of falling.It took me quite a few tries, but I actually figured it out after a while. The trick is to look upwards while you walk backwards towards the ladder - if you're looking down, you'll "climb up" the ladder as soon as you've set foot on it. Extremely unintuitive, but it works.


Enable drop and drag in the inventory / weapon mod / biomod screens instead of the odd click to swap or wierd key shortcuts mess.YES! That pissed me off to no end.

coldblue
23rd Nov 2003, 01:03
Here's my two cents on the demo - hopefully this hasn't all been said before a hundred times, this is a long thread and I just skimmed it.

First, I like it. The gameplay is great. I love turning on the vision biomod, checking where the guard is, dropping spider bots and watching them go to town, taking over a gun turret and dropping all the guards and shooting a gas tank so that it spurts flame. The health leach drone is five kinds of cool. Sid Black seems very cool, and all the characters seemed interesting. The dynamic shadows are great and run way smoother than I anticipated. The shot gun and the SMG rock the hizzouse. Flamethrower's fun too. Has anyone tried "log rolling" on the barrles? Very cool! And you can already, just through casual references, pick up on the complicated relationships between people and organizations that make the game world believable.

Second, 75% of the things people are complaining about can be fixed! They did a lousy job with the default settings for this demo, but they can all be fixed. In my version, I have optimized the graphics (the game looks and runs great), moved the HUD to the edge of the screen, changed mouse movement so its tighter and more PC-like, shrunk the font size, and done a ton of other little tweaks.

Most of these tweaks have been posted over at the Ion Storm forums (too lazy to link), and they dramatically improve the demo experience. Should it be the case that the demo needs to be tweaked before its good? No, but at least it can be done, which makes me think that they'll get it right for the real game release (which, incidentally, I'm still looking forward too).

buzzfunk
23rd Nov 2003, 01:07
what tweak lets you shrink the font size?

Link please.

coldblue
23rd Nov 2003, 01:17
What do you want a link for? Just do this:

Open default.ini in the /System/ directory.

Locate the section that says "FontMappings".

Overwrite everything down to the "debug" comment with this:

SmallFont10__d=DX2_Font,0.6,0.80
MediumFont16__d=DX2_Font,0.6,0.80
HudFont12__d=DX2_Font,0.6,0.80
HudFont14__d=DX2_Font,0.6,0.80
HudFont16__d=DX2_Font,0.6,0.80
HUD_HelpText__d=DX2_Font,0.6,0.80
HUD_SmallText__d=DX2_Font,0.6,0.80
HUD_CornerHelpText__d=DX2_Font,0.6,0.80
HUD_DataLink__d=DX2_Font,0.6,0.80
HUD_Inventory__d=DX2_Font,0.6,0.80
HUD_Convo__d=DX2_Font,0.6,0.80

Save, and enjoy the DX1 size fonts. :cool:

buzzfunk
23rd Nov 2003, 01:19
Even tho i already vent my anger and with some tweaks the game is much better today then when i first played it , im still disappointed.

Best example. Take Knights of the old Republic. Now THAT is an R P G. Judging from the demo, DE2 is not. Heck, its not even a hybrid. Its an Action/thriller with 'rpg elements' build in.

And KOTOR proved that console players are NOT idiots. It has a complex skill system, TONS of items, a real inventory and to round it all up, Bioware redesigned the interface for the PC.

KOTOR sold a LOT of units. In fact, everyone i know loves it.

with all the story potential, why couldve DE2 not been that deep? Why make it an action/thriller only?

Any argument from Ion storm that deep rpg cant be done on a console is just an excuse for a lazy design.

And at least, yeah i have to admit after playing the demo 5-7 times, it grows on me but it couldve been so much more.

buzzfunk
23rd Nov 2003, 01:21
Thanks coldblue. Apprechiate a lot.

darklightning
23rd Nov 2003, 01:29
Granted I did notice a great deal of the problems that people mentioned, I was overall happy with the demo. Though there we some definite turn-offs.

(Sorry this post is so long, but I was just noting impressions as I played the game and here they are)

For instance, I, for one, like the standard complex menu sustem with tons of options (as long as it isn't confusing). I'm not sure I really care for the loading screens as well. The game definitely seems 'consolized' and I didn't like that. I didn't find the unified ammo a problem in the demo, but in the real game, I could see it becoming a problem. I'm not sure I like the multitool combo thing. I seems less realistic, maybe if there was a different animation for it or something, but frying the door with an energy beam doesn't seem right.

I like how you can control the turrents manually, but something odd I noticed is that on the security system, once you change the turrent to shoot enemies, you can't change it back.

The inventory system was a bit awkward and confusing and not the easiest to use considering the frequency with which I had to use it. I thought that, while making it smaller was perhaps more realistic, it was a bit too small and I really miss the drag and drop. It was annoying having to drop all my grenades and soda so I could carry other stuff.

Trying to use the biomods was a little annoying.

It's hard to tell which number to hit to choose an item.

I really miss having different damage to different body parts.

I thought graphics were good though I had to bump up my lighting so I could see.

Remapping is buggy (not a serious issue as it will be fixed I'm sure)

I don't really care for the default mapping either... I mean... what is up with the 'f' key being alternate fire!?!? the second mouse button should be alternate and the use key shoud NOT be enter, 'e' is so much easier to use. I know this is all changeable, but the standard FPS game has them automatically set in better configurations.

Subtitles were a joke and I had to turn them off.

I was impressed with the physics for the most part though I didn't care for how the people flew so easily after they were dead. (ie. shoot them and they go flying.) Though I was impressed how the clipping was. In most games, if you throw someone in the dumpster or agaisnt the wall, they will lay flat and their appendages will stick through, but in DXIW, they slump agaisnt the wall and don't stick through.

The mouse movement was sluggish as people have said, and I think it may have even been intentional to make the game more realistic? I don't know, though I'm partial to the unrealistic super speed that matches your mouse movements.

I'm really upset how they catered so much to the console, it shows lazimess on their parts.

Going with that, I didn't care for the way the fonts were on several parts of the game.

Oh yeah, I HATED, er, that wasn't quite the emphasis I wanted. I REALLY REALLY REALLY LOATHED (there, that's better) the way the new hacking system is. In the beginning of the demo, I accidently right clicked while facing the ATM and the next thing I know the guard is attacking me!

They should try to cater more to the gaming community and ask them what it is they want. Localized body damage clearly has a majority of votres as well as other topics that have been discussed.

I didn't care a lot for the ammo system once I thought it over, I'll have to give it another go, but I think it needs to be changed.

No sneaking, leaning, holstering, and no light/dark bar?

Seems to run worse than it should.

Some jerky animation.

I thought the hud was pretty sweet overall.

Crouching should be as you hold the key, should shouldn't have to hit the key again to stand.

On the same topic of being confusing to use weapons, shouldn't they at least give us 9 or 10 slots so that

Demo was a little confusing at first. I hated the little popup messages, they got annoying... the most confusing thing, at first, was that first message from that anonymous lady. She thorws to or three names at you that you won't recognize, then gives you two or three options on what to do when you really have no idea what's going on and you don't know what to do.

Levels seem small, but demo is hard to tell.

I miss the skill system, but I'm not sure how DXIW compensates for this yet, so...

The leech mod was cool.

I know all this may not be accurate and there are arguments, bla bla bla, but this are my first impressions.

OVERALL IMPRESSION:
The demo is junk that was finished two months ago and just now being released. A patch or some tweaking, assuming they havn't already been fixed could help this game tremendously. The game seems pretty solid overall and I will probably still purchase it, though I will have to give it some more consideration first.

Dav1000
23rd Nov 2003, 03:20
The IS forum thread on how to improve the demo by editing the ini files is http://www.ionstorm.com/forum/viewthread.asp?forum=AMB_AP619612110&id=34880 for those who don't know yet.

FuriousNoob >:-(
23rd Nov 2003, 03:26
well i've given the demo another run through and although it's not as bad as i originally thought, it's still far from good.

Unified ammo is not winning me over:
I originally thought they meant that guns that used bullets/shells would use one type of ammo (matter clips) and electrical weapons would use another (energy clips). I was cool with that, but the flamethrower using the same ammo as the pistol and prod is not "immersive" at all. The reasoning for the unified ammo was so we weren't pigeon-holed into a one weapon strategy. However, with the orginal setup of different guns different ammo, you could have as your favorite weapon be something that ate ammo like popcorn and it didn't matter because once it ran out, you could switch to your second favorite weapon. Under this setup, if you favorite gun eats ammo, you're screwed if u use it because all you'll have left to use is your knife.

The Prod:
Are you kidding me. Blackcats do more damage. (blackcats are the wimpiest firecrackers u can buy here). Although the prod wasn't my favorite from the original, i know a lot of people really liked it, and I'm guessing that those are some pissed off people right now. They should remodel it to look like a key chain flashlight because that is what it really is.

Small levels:
Everything seemed so cramped. I realize that this was just a demo, so i have no way of knowing what the rest of the game will be like - i just hope there are some big levels where sniping is practical. I don't like to snipe in games but i like to have levels that are of that size and freedom.

FOV:
This is not a big deal but how do i change the FOV. It seems to be a lot narrower and that bugs me. Just a personal preference.

Graphics:
Not bad - i reinstalled and it fixed my pixelated problem. The complaints about low res textures are a little unfair because most demos do this to keep file size down. Textures and sound files usually make up the bulk of game size so that's more than understandable.

Hit location:
Sucks but they said they are looking into tweaking it so i'll hold off til i see how that turns out.

Bad gameplay:
This is personal preference. Either you're sucked it or you're not - and I'm not.

Weapons:
A little weak but they are supposed to be really strong with the weapon mods so i guess we'll have to see.

HUD:
Doesn't really bother me because i make almost invisible. The health and energy meters look odd because you can see the little squares that fill it in, and it looks like a little kid was trying to color them in and couldn't stay between the lines.

Conclusion:
I'm would guess that with this much negative feedback, another demo will be released (i think it will be a while though). I'll see how it goes from there. As it stands right now, I have for fun playing the original so I'm going to stick with that instead. After all, games are all about fun and since i'm having more fun with the original, i can't justify purchasing this yet.

ZeroCorpse
23rd Nov 2003, 06:24
Well... I was originally pretty angry that I couldn't play the demo at all- despite my 128 MB GeForce 4 (MX), despite my 768MB RAM, despite my 1.5 Gig Athlon, despite my 240 GB of hard drive space... Despite being able to run ANY OTHER GAME very well... I was a little peeved that I was excluded from playing because my particular flavor of GeForce 4 card doesn't fully support pixel shading (or whatever).

BUT... having read so many negative reviews, I don't feel so bad. Removing area damage? Screwing up headshot kills? No leaning? Unified ammo? Nasty console interface? GAG! That's it- I'm not buying this game, and that's depressing because Deus Ex (1) was the best game ever, and I am a total fanatic for it- But this sequel sounds like they took every GOOD thing out of it, and instead tried to make something that was a graphical powerhouse. I don't want a good LOOKING game. I want a good story, and good gameplay. Don't change the formula you idiots! Improve the look a little. Update the engine a bit. Don't throw out the baby with the bathwater! It sounds like the designers decided they really didn't want to make a Deus Ex game, and instead made an interactive, slightly stealth-based DOOM or Quake. THIS thing isn't going to be worth my hard-earned cash. I hope it bombs.

Screw you, Eidos. I'm going home.

Esquire
23rd Nov 2003, 09:32
About not being able to lean… well, I, at first, agreed with the frustration of others about this, but then I remembered about the sound-physics in the game. If you’re on a corner of a wall, and you want to know what’s around the corner, in reality, you couldn’t really poke your head around the corner (well of course you could but you’d risk getting your head blown off), but what you could do is use the sound-physics to hear for footsteps or talking. And as the person around the corner gets louder you will know they are getting closer.

But still, this doesn’t make the removal of leaning ok. For a game that’s supposed to be offering the player decisions, they seemed to have missed quite a simple one. Besides, what if a security camera was around the corner, or even worse a turret! You’re sat there listening for footsteps, hear none, stand up and do your cool AlexD walk around the corner just to be gunned down.

I haven’t played the demo… whether that’s a good or bad thing, I don’t know. Oh and where’s this second trailer Viking’s talking about?

El Padrino
23rd Nov 2003, 10:10
Originally posted by GingerNinja

2. The unified ammo system!
I thought I could get used to it. But I can't. Why:
Because it completely gets rid of half the weapons.
Why keep the pistol when I can have the other huge weapons that take the same ammo!!


Because the huge weapons will go through the unified ammo at a higher rate than the pistol. (Oh, and that nifty flashlight.)



Originally posted by DarkForge

1) Auto resetting controls: [...] Even manually editing the user.ini file did nothing to rectify the problem.


Try manipulating the default.ini in the system folder. Editing the user.ini didn't work for me either, even with "read only" unchecked. I'm not sure if editing the default.ini file will work, since after editing it I came here, and will shortly be working on my class presentation, but I guess it's worth a shot for someone else.


Originally posted by bobk
I believe the developers are trying to "encourage" alternate
playing styles by limiting the fun of using guns.



Then they can throw in some NPCs that get on your case when you start killing everbody, like Paul and Carter in DX1. Weakening weapons is a way to deal with some issues, but not this one, or any they may have for making headshots 4 hit kill instead of 1.



Originally posted by Driver

I'll say it again, for the 1000000000000000th time? Why was LOCATIONAL damage removed? It does not make sense.


You're right, it doesn't make sense. I agree, and so do the Ion Storm developers. Locational damage is in, but the settings are intentionally messed up. There's a post at the Ion Storm boards where a developer explains why. I think a link to that thread is on this board. Basically the explination was that they didn't want the weaker weapons to be too powerful or something like that, and/or that they can be modded later and they wanted that to mean a bit more. Bad reasoning if you ask me, but that's the gist of what I got out of what he said. He did mention they're looking into changing the settings, though, so there's still hope.



Originally posted by buzzfunk

And KOTOR proved that console players are NOT idiots. It has a complex skill system, TONS of items, a real inventory and to round it all up, Bioware redesigned the interface for the PC.


I disagree: It proves that console inventories can be complex, not that console players aren't idiots. Not that I think console gamers are necessarily idiots.

dimple
23rd Nov 2003, 10:19
No, it's impossible... You can't possibly screw up Deus Ex:IW this badly. And if they really do screw up this game, I hope people get fired. I can't possibly see locational damage, reloading, leaning, and different ammo types being removed. That's just not right. The whole demo is not right. Hell, I'm still in denial about how horrible the demo was. How can you release a game where the barrels was more fun to play with than the real game itself? They must be releasing a crap demo just to lower our expectations. :( I have to say that I am depressed now.

buzzfunk
23rd Nov 2003, 10:33
I disagree: It proves that console inventories can be complex, not that console players aren't idiots. Not that I think console gamers are necessarily idiots.

Nah, it proves that a complex inventory system, a real rpg, can be done that is also accessible to everyone.

Its one thing to 'streamline gameplay' or just get rid of stuff that make the game an rpg. Just by looking at the interface i can tell that Ion must think people cant handle a godamn inventory.
And its not like 12 years olds played the first game.

re: localized damage

One shot to the head equals dead. Period. End.

Lets say i sneak my way into a level, spend like hours so i wont be detected. Iknow i need to make one shot. Drop a guard for example. If i miss, the head shot will be harder cause he would move...and if, lets say your aiming skills isnt up for it (your scope would just move too much) then i would have either to run or bring out the real guns.

Anyway you put it, the skill system makes an rpg. DE2 isnt one. Its an action/thriller with borrowed rpg elements. Thats all.

One ammo is mindboggling to me. Seriously. think about it. Yaa sure LESS TO WORRY ABOUT. But then an 'rpg' isnt for you. Go play quake. (oh wait..that has diff ammos..haha).

Example: I got the shotgun, small gun, machinegun and a flamethrower.

So im using the pistol only a lot, lets say for 2 hours game time. Then im suddenly confronted with 4-5 enemys. ****. No pistol ammo. Switch to the flamethrower...

oh wait....NO AMMO, cause my i used my pistol for the last hour. I mean god. Is that so hard to see why its FUN and a must to have diff ammo types?

ok for a deathmatch game, sure why not. All what people care is to get the gun asap and shoot asap.

An RPG is about choices. its about making decisions before you sometimes you know if you made the right one. THAT IS the fun part about it. if your totally happy with the demo, then your not looking for an rpg experience. Period.

Im getting so mad playing it and seeing how all the good elements of the first one are here an afterthought. Sure the story will rock. The music rocks. The game looks great. Ohhh greaaaatt physics.

Sure, you can choose to sneak, fight or hack your way through the game. But at the essence, the gamplay itself is so simplified that it isnt all that it couldve been.

That is of course my own opinion. Why am i STILL venting? Im still disappointed. Even with all the tweaks it wont chance the game at its core.

buzzfunk
23rd Nov 2003, 10:39
I can't possibly see locational damage, reloading, leaning, and different ammo types being removed.

Thats what i thought. Heres the reason: C O N S O L E

Baloon
23rd Nov 2003, 10:53
First off I must say that I am a huge DX fan. DXI is one of my favourite games really high.
But I hate the demo. Well not as much the demo as the gameplay.

-INVENTORY: The inventory has been... massacred. In DXI there was the strategic placement of weapons, here it's a simplified arcade inventory for consoles (Xbox....). This is a MAJOR turnoff. What is the matter with the old one? It was perfect to me.

-HACKING: Childishly easy. Not to mention made for consoles (only use directional keys + enter). Wheres the username and password from DXI? Also the ATMs? Wheres the hacking time left line? Damn, this is tottaly off.

-GRAPHICS+PHYSICS: SUPERB, but some texturs are really ugly.

-INTERFACE: Again, massacred. The one from DXI where you could access the inventory, augs, logs, pics sectiones from one place in GREAT. This one is crap.

-DYNAMIC CROSSHAIR: Ouch! Feels like Im playing some cheap arcade shooter. I can run around, jump and Ill still hit the guy. Ouch!

-BODY PARTS (WHEN DAMAGED): I dont know why you took that away it was nice. You lose a leg, you crawl. Headshot - you die.
Here - nothing. Oh and I once shot that woman in the HEAD from POINT BLANK range and she DIDNT die. OUCH!

-UNIVERSAL AMMO: WHAT??? Flamethrower and pistol? Shotgun and SMG? This is just funny. It was great when you could take different ammo types in DXI reload them. Here... nothing!

-MUSIC: I like the theme in the main menu.

-EXP. POINTS: Where are they? They were an essential part of the original game!!!

-AUGS: Not even a aug interface. No comment.

-MULTITOOLS FOR HACKING WOODEN DOORS: That made me laugh.

This demo reaaaaly dissapointed me. You cant deny that you massacred the gamesystem for Xbox and sales. It clearly visible that this game is made for Xbox and then emulated for PC not the other way around. I think its sad, selling out like this. The DeusEx series got all the hardcore fans cause of the features which are taken out of DXII and thats sad. I can see that this game will be nothing more that an arcade-console shooter with some tactics in it. I feel sad cause of that. I am a big DX fan but now I feel like I am betrayed. I spoke to many HC DeusEx fans and they are ALL dissapointed as well as many ppl on various forums. Thanks, but no thanks Warren Spector.

DarkForge
23rd Nov 2003, 12:18
Originally posted by OrioTecc
Dark Forge: right-click on user.ini --> properties --> uncheck read only.

that fixes the keymapping problem

I did m8. I unchecked read-only, then edited the file. But it didn't help. Didn't even change the defaults to begin with, let alone keep the control changes between game loads. Should I perhaps check read-only again after editing the file?

ishcuda
23rd Nov 2003, 13:03
Well. I have been reading this thread and have never posted before. I am probably one of the older folks as gamers go but I build my own stuff and enjoy FPS and Intrigue in the same package.

The original Deus Ex was hands down the number one game I have ever played. My system is quite adequate and is approved by IS to play their demo. It doesn't. I am glad. If it had I would have had to *experience* the disappointment rather than read of it.

I enjoyed and still enjoy, though I know every possible scenario, DX1. This new issue is a pale reflection of the original that has been thoroughly discussed, (and cussed) in this forum until I am convinced. Even running physically perfectly this game has lost it's soul.

My friends, we have been sold out in the marketplace of corporate greed. This thing will sell but not to most of us who waited for more. Who hoped for more. Who expected more.

I have cancelled my pre-order with an e-store and will wait for Half Life II. It can not disappoint me as this game has because I will never anticipate a game as long or as hopefully as I did the Deus Ex sequel.

I guess I will go sign the thread petitioning Ion Storm to delay release. But I don't expect much improvement. And I'm not
holding my breath. As we say around here, this dawg ain't
gonna hunt.

Face it true Deuce Ex Fans...

Deus Ex was an anomaly,

A work which can not be improved on,

Like Elvis,

Sincerely,

Old Fart

Sigh....

FuriousNoob >:-(
23rd Nov 2003, 13:22
Originally posted by DarkForge
I did m8. I unchecked read-only, then edited the file. But it didn't help. Didn't even change the defaults to begin with, let alone keep the control changes between game loads. Should I perhaps check read-only again after editing the file?

Don't edit the user.ini file in the game folder that u installed the game in (that would be c:\program files\deus ex... because we weren't given a choice). It doesn't read that file so look in your My Documents folder and you'll see it in a Deus Ex.... folder. I did the same thing at first by editing the files where the game is actually supposed to be installed. Gee why didn't i think to look in My Documents - it's so obvious. Of course I want my video games to be in the same folder as all of my files for school and work. :rolleyes:

TheGibberingFool
23rd Nov 2003, 13:52
Originally posted by FuriousNoob >:-(
that would be c:\program files\deus ex... because we weren't given a choice)

We were .. it was a bit misleading though. I've installed mine in I:\DXIW for example. Instead of 'Play DX:IW' you had to pick 'Install DX:IW', essentially installing it twice - moving it around a lot. It was a bit dumass if you ask me, even though no-one did.

BTQ
23rd Nov 2003, 14:55
Originally posted by ishcuda
Even running physically perfectly this game has lost it's soul.
Face it true Deuce Ex Fans...
Deus Ex was an anomaly,
A work which can not be improved on...

How can one know with such certainty that the game will not be good from this rather tiny portion of it is beyond me.
I've played the original game through four times. It is a brilliant game and ranks in my top five favorites of all time. But this gnashing of teeth from what is, at best, a beta level glimpse into the sequel, is just a tad premature.
Personally, I think the interface is vastly easier to manage than the original game's version. I also don't think that having only one type of ammo is a deal killer, either. If you're aware of some history of firearms you'll recall that back in the West cowboys and settlers carried rifles and pistols designed to shoot the same caliber bullet. Kept things easier to manage. (I'll grant you that if there is a sniper rifle in the game that uses a 9mm round designed for pistol use that I'll have a problem with that...) I also trust in the passion that Spector and his crew at Ion Storm Austin has for game design. We don't know what new, cooler things they have in mind for this game that will surpass the original.
Just take a deep breath. You can't really believe that you know everything about this game from this one, tiny portion of it, can you?

GulliveR
23rd Nov 2003, 15:42
I was gonna write someting clever here but it looks like Baloon have allready said it. Ths was a dissapointment biggest of the year :mad:

What should have been done was to make a "classical" interfase in addision to the new.
ant why the #### are everything allways resetting. I don't want to play with deflaut controls and 640*480 in resolution.
I hope this is going to be changed in the final game. But the way it's now DXIW would be placed nextto "enter the Matrix". Because
it just ain't playable. The localized body damage is nessesary in a stelth game.

DarkForge
23rd Nov 2003, 15:58
Originally posted by FuriousNoob >:-(
Don't edit the user.ini file in the game folder that u installed the game in (that would be c:\program files\deus ex... because we weren't given a choice). It doesn't read that file so look in your My Documents folder and you'll see it in a Deus Ex.... folder. I did the same thing at first by editing the files where the game is actually supposed to be installed.

:eek: BAH!!! Where did that folder come from? Wow, I didn't even know it was there. I see the .ini file though, so I'll give that one a try. Thanks FuriousNoob! :)

Yeeyoh
23rd Nov 2003, 16:09
I was going to write a long complicated reply with all the reasons I hated this sequil (at least the demo).

But alot of people have done that for me. I'll just say i loved the first game and this game... (complex word here) sucked.

It seems obvious that this was writen for xbox or PS2 or what ever and ported over to PC. Everything has been simplified.
ahh etc. etc.
I expected as much. Game sequils are going the same way as movie sequils. Most are going to be awful.
I expect the same from half-life two.

If your a big fan of half-life or Deus-ex. remember they were new games. Inovative. Why not look for new games that offer the same things instead of clinging to the name of a great as more numbers are added to the end of it..
Disapointed, yes disapointed in this game. Disapointed, no, there are plenty of fun games out there. Some old some new.

Jitan
23rd Nov 2003, 16:19
There is only one thing that I am really, really, REALLY pissed about....you can't get drunk, WTFBBQ? WTF?

sMull
23rd Nov 2003, 16:20
The demo is absolutely awful! Ion Storm were obviously afraid that some xBox retard's 2 brain cells might explode if they didn't oversimplify everything. I would have bought the game right away if it wasn't for the demo. Disgusting job Ion, i really really hope you don't mess up Thief 3. You didn't have to sell out to M$ you know, wasn't necessary. There were countless Deus Ex fans and if money you were bothered with, you would've made enough by simply making a great PC game and then of course port it to the consoles if you wanted to. Shame.

Subliminal Celsius
23rd Nov 2003, 16:22
Before I rant, I just have one thing to say:

1. Someone ****ed up.

2. Games with a lot of hype surrounding them usually have harsh expectations and even harsher criticism, but that relates towards the demos more so. Which is why the demos should be everything we expected.

I was very exicted to download the DE2: IW demo, and after playing it, I can proudly say it was neither a waste of my time nor bandwith.

However...

It did somewhat disspoint me, as I was expecting a lot. I was wondering how much it would be simplified for the Xbox, but didn't quite know how much. Having never played the original Deus Ex that much (I should go rent the PS2 version for the full effect..), I don't know the "pleasures" some of you mentioned about DE's original interface, the hacking, etc... Having played, say, KOTOR, which I loved, the interface felt very Xbox-ish. This is fine for me, laying down and playing my Xbox casually, but for PC, not quite so. Actually, the main reason I hate it is because of the limited slots you carry. We are not going for realism here, but fun! You should be able to carry a lot more.

The graphics are pretty good, but there were some VERY ugly textures. Ever try looking at one of the cats up close? UGH. But they really added emotion to the level. As though you were really in the slums, some chaotic lower-level part of a futuristic city.

The sound was flawless. People carrying on conversations with believable emotion in their voices, what little music it had, sounds from weapons...

Technically, I loved it. My PC (P4 1.6, Ti 4200 128MB AGP8X, 512MB DDR RAM), played it pretty much flawless under a 1280x1024 reso. I loved the engine, and all that you could do with the objects and bodies. Location based damage... well, I just wish they had it in there. And I absolutely HATE universal ammo. That should be forbideen.

Anyways, I understood they didn't want to spoil much of the story, but they really should have included some story. People should play demos like this at their own risk!

I was looking through the ini. file and noticed a lot of "Xbox" related things. WTF? I seriously think someone ****ed up... unless it's supposed to be like that? Then what gives? Surely this game, the PC version at least, was neglected for the Xbox version. I think Xbox owners can and should wait, because Deus Ex is a hit because of PC gamers.

If DE2 has been modified this way for consoles, just think of some other big games that might be as well: Half Life 2, Doom 3

I think DE2 should have gotten far special attention. These flaws that I mentioned and many I didn't can be fixed by a patch or several patches, but will we see one? Devs are getting very lazy, I think. Look at all the complaints for Halo for PC. I was one of the lucky few to have the game working flawless, but many others to this day do still not. There have only been two patches released, and not only do they give little information on each, but they improve next to nothing! I doubt they have been working on some huge patch the last month.

Games like UT2K3 and BF1942 are commendable, though.

I think it's important a demo be perfected before released, as this one feels somewhat rushed. A pity, and I know Ion Storm can do better. I'm glad to have played it this early, but the level was probably one of the least likeable in the game. I'd have loved taking on some harder assasination mission for an organization in Antartica... This game will sell well, but I know that it could have been better, perhaps the hype chipped some off? In any case, I hope I'm wrong in being slightly disappointed and that the final game will "wow" me. I'm still going to try and reserve it this coming Wednesda, and will look foward to playing it next, next week. (For either Xbox or PC, I wanted the PC version before, but now I am uncertain.)

And, thus ends a rant from another 15 year old.

ishcuda
23rd Nov 2003, 16:25
Originally posted by BTQ


How can one know with such certainty that the game will not be good from this rather tiny portion of it is beyond me...
You can't really believe that you know everything about this game from this one, tiny portion of it, can you?...

No, and I am sure many people will derive a lot of pleasure playing DXIW. What I *do* know is that I do not want the game as it is on my PC. I read the entire thread up to my post. If you haven't I suggest you do. As Gen. Custer once said, 20,000 Indians can't be wrong.

However my real conviction comes from studying all the disappointment expressed by what I believe is the hard core Deus Ex community. I hear my own feelings expressed through their anger and downright amazement at what happened to our beloved Deus Ex.

We share a common view that will only be appreciated by others of a like mind. That is what I meant by: "This new issue is a pale reflection of the original..." and "...this game has lost it's soul."

Those who saw so much more than the great *game* Deus Ex was and still is, peeling more of the layer off the onion with each replay, can not be satisfied with what is evident from the vast majority of these (195 to now) posts. This may well be a good game for many folks. For those of us who have 'taken the red pill' it just isn't Deus Ex anymore.

"I didn't promise it would be easy. I promised it would be the truth." ...Morpheus

molain
23rd Nov 2003, 18:01
Originally posted by buzzfunk
**** YOU Warren spector for ****in over your PC FAN BASE!

This demo ****in sucks ass. Why do i act and sound like a immature 12 year old? BECAUSE im ****in disappointed!!!

Deux Ex, just like System shock 2, was really one of my favorite games.

This demo proves that the game has been indeed

CONSOLE`D

The interface is ****in unbareable. The fonts, even at 1600x1200 looks like its been made for 8 years olds so they can read.
While in levels, the proportion isnt right. The door seems to big and the rooms are too small. Gameplay...huh..? wheres the gameplay? Oh great i can sneak, shoot or hack....and the hacking is me pressing the left MB. OH THATS INOVATIVE...

**** you Ion Storm for ****in this **** up.

That is my opinion. Please after waiting 3 years for this i have to godamn right to vent my disappointment.

I agree wholeheartedly. So many things are lacking from this game, things that made the original great - such as the use of typing & notes (I miss finding passwords & typing them in, or trying to guess key codes), or the localized health, or the old inventory system. The new UI is clunky, to say the least, clearly designed for console gamers who have very few buttons. The HUD (which is far too much in my way - I liked the old style many many many times better) clearly expects to be used on a console, as it looks horribly pixelated until you crank your resolution up to 1600x1200, at which point my computer gets about 2fps. And what ever happened to reloading my gun, or finding 30.06mm ammo? Again, this seems like just a simplification to accomodate the stupid XBox.
That said, I DO love the physics and lighting, but the simplification removes too much from the game and really ruins it for me.
I still hope the story will be good in the final version, but my level of disappointment is quite high. Should there be a Deus 3, I will have to think twice before buying it, and I CERTAINLY won't pre-order it the way I did this one.

Sorry, Eidos, you blew it.

Amorpheus
23rd Nov 2003, 18:04
I am one of those onion-layer peelers, and I think DX:IW will be a better game than DX. Of course, that's only if story and other aspects we can't judge yet are as good and the smaller issues with the demo are fixed.

What do people mean when they say it's lost its soul? Doing stuff your way is there. The atmosphere is there. The music is there. Superflous interaction is there.

People should at least try playing it and adapt to the new style, not dismissing it because it doesn't have feature X or Y. Previews have only been very positive so far, so I'm not really concerned that many people go that way. An open mind should be listed under the requirements, I've seen quite a few people now that turned around after condemning it at first.
:rolleyes:

buzzfunk
23rd Nov 2003, 18:58
People should at least try playing it and adapt to the new style, not dismissing it because it doesn't have feature X or Y.


Sorry but thats BS.

You mean i should try being in denial? You think that DE2 is better then DE1? huh..sure your opinion. But like someone said, 20.000 indians cant be wrong. Im not trying to shove my opinion down anyones throat, but the majority of fans are disappointed. Period.

None said that its missing the music, dark atmosphere, choices of excecution the missions, feel etc.

It comes down to the the core gameplay, which has been receeded to a level that the flamethrower and pistol share the same godamn ammo. I mean, please. PLEASE.

I ****in hope Ion Storm has some balls and will response to all the negative comments.

nightspore
23rd Nov 2003, 19:09
Unlike most of the people in this thread I really liked the demo. In fact, I immediately went to EB games & pre-ordered. It definitely has that 'Deus Ex feel' to it.

A lot of you seem to be complaining that it's not Deus Ex; reminds me a lot of all the people that complained that UT 2k3 wasn't UT. Give the game a chance. Quite a few of the complaints that I've read can be fixed with a bit of editing/tweaking the ini files.

Think the font is too big? edit the ini and make it smaller; don't like the HUD, set the transparency to 0 and you won't see it unless you use it; the read-only user.ini is only a demo bug, the full version will let you save any/all settings. Think the graphics aren't good enough, turn on trilinear filtering, volumetric lighting & detail textures (altho trilinear/volumetric lighting will lower your framerate - I had to drop to 1024x768 max quality 6xAA from 1280x1024) and turn on aniso filtering in your desktop control panel. Think the weapons aren't doing enough damage, then up the damage multiplier and accuaracy in default.ini. It can all be tweaked.

and btw - the ATI bug with the white pixels in certain character models can be fixed by turning off bloom. And the added benefit is that the textures seem to be a lot crisper with bloom off.

Anyway, those of you who just absolutely refuse to get the game because of a few cosmetic changes will be missing out on what I think will be one of the best games ever. Your loss.

TheGibberingFool
23rd Nov 2003, 19:24
I agree, though these features that you can "tweak" should have been in the User Interface from the start. A lot of things should have been in the interface: notebook, convo logs, all the original stuff. The damage isn't a problem - just like the old Deus Ex. Shame they kept the annoying bits and got rid of some of the good bits. I think they should redesign the UI, and I don't care how "streamlined" it's supposed to be. It's new, and I don't like it because it's lacking the things that should be in it.

A few gameplay niggles that can't be hacked in the ini files are leaning, and stealth, and no-reloading, and unified ammo. They're not too much of a problem really, but the immersion of the game is reduced. A lot. It just feels like an arcade game now, sometimes. If only they'd put those back in.

Otherwise, I'm happy with it really.

buzzfunk
23rd Nov 2003, 19:28
Anyway, those of you who just absolutely refuse to get the game because of a few cosmetic changes will be missing out on what I think will be one of the best games ever. Your loss.

Dude are you just ignorant or just not reading any of the messages??

Everyone knows that the game can be tweaked to the better. It Is the Core Gameplay that most people ***** about. Im not going through all of them again. Read some of the 9000 posts on this board.

TheGibberingFool
23rd Nov 2003, 19:34
I agree. The cosmetic can be changed. As I said above, they just labotomised Deus Ex, either to make it easier for an Xbox controller (not slagging the Xbox before I get flamed) in terms of the interface usage (not appearance), stealth and headshots etc etc, or they just couldn't be arsed.

Esquire
23rd Nov 2003, 20:36
It's shambolic that Eidos would release a demo that requires the gamers to edit it themselves, in order to improve the quality of it. IMO, that is disgusting.

i bought DX1 because of the quality of the demo. infact i was playing the demo repeatedly until i got the second demo, and then i decided to buy the full game.

rapa-nui
23rd Nov 2003, 20:51
Not too long ago I was playing a little game that was rather hard to get to run on Windows XP. That little game is called System Shock. It runs on DOS. The graphics are what you might expect for a game of its time. The interface is clunky, but complete. I can lean, I can crouch, I controll EXACTLY how much I want to crouch, for that matter.

A little before that, I was playing that game's sequel. It simplified the interface but ADDED functionality instead of removing it. The better graphics worked to enhance the experience. There was a skill point system that allowed me to customize my character too! This was how a sequel SHOULD be done.

Deus Ex could be called (in any other aspect except story) System Shock 3. The interface was rehauled once again and made simpler but with more functionality. The character development and tacttics you could use to complete the game were expanded, and NPC interactions were present and important. Pure gaming bliss.

And now, we have this demo of Deus Ex 2.

Some of the choices I flat out don't get. The interface has LOST functionality and been COMPLEXIFIED to hell. On a PC you have this thing called a KEYBOARD. It has a lot more buttons than an X-Box controller, letting you do more things.

No leaning? What if i want to play a stealthy character who's paranoid of cameras and I don't want to invest in that nifty little "see through walls" biomod? Why FORCE every single stealthy character to purchase the same biomod just so they can see cameras safely?

In Deus Ex a stealthy character could be created from a wide array of biomods... he never had to take one to be able to win with his style of play.

Character development: you took out the skill system but promised a more in-depth biomod system. Is that what we got? No. The new biomod system actually seems dumbed down. If I'm not mistaken we can only use 5 biomods at once (the light doesn't count). Whoopty-freaking-do.

No localized damage. Hello? I guess this means that DX: Invisible War won't have a sniper rifle? Because if I shoot someone in the leg I don't wan't them to react the same way they should when they get hit in the face.

BUT WAIT! I forgot... the levels are smaller and more compressed, so there really WON'T be a need for a long range sniper rifle.

Also, it's the future... I can suspend the disbelief of many things. But please explain how nanites (or whatever the hell the blue goop you put into your guns is) generate both bullets, electrical spark AND flamethrower fuel all from the same container. Please, explain. Maybe Feynman will rise from the grave and say "Gee, I should have thought of that."

Everything about this demo screamed out the same thing at me:

"We made a game that will be an amazing new experience for console players, but have decided to give our loyal PC fanbase (the ones that supported the first game in the first place) The Royal Shaft. You scum bags are lucky we are putting it out for the PC at all. Now, go edit your INI files so tha the mouse doesn't lag. HAHAHAHAHAH!"

Thanks guys.

I really hope that I'm wrong. I do. I hope that when the game arrives, I'll open it, pop it in the drive and be immersed into an intriguing new world with multiple exploration options. The way you choose factions actually DOES sound very cool. If it's cool enough I mght be able to forget all the little slights and insults and just enjoy the product as is.

But maybe, just maybe, you need to go back to your DOS roots people.

molain
23rd Nov 2003, 20:56
Sorry if someone already suggested this...

My machine was running Deus quite horribly - 1.05GHz Athlon/256MB PC133/GeForce 3 Ti200 (64MB) - like 640x480 & still occasionally choppy. Sooo...I started tweaking with the Default.ini file.

Under [WindowManager], I set the FOV__d=30 (instead of 61), and

AssumedUIScreenWidth__d=800
AssumedUIScreenHeight__d=600


The effect is that my HUD is tiny (I actually prefer it that way - it takes up less of my screen, and it's less pixeley, BUT the game is now playable at 1024x768 (with shadows & lighting on full, bloom), giving me about the same frame rate as it did at 640x480 before. This small HUD is difficult to read at lower resolutions, and you'll need to change the font size as someone else described earlier, but it definitely made a huge difference for me.

Just doing my part to help reduce the suckage!

-Ben

bobk
23rd Nov 2003, 21:00
Originally posted by molain
I agree wholeheartedly. So many things are lacking from this game, things that made the original great - such as the use of typing & notes (I miss finding passwords & typing them in, or trying to guess key codes), or the localized health, or the old inventory system. The new UI is clunky, to say the least, clearly designed for console gamers who have very few buttons. The HUD (which is far too much in my way - I liked the old style many many many times better) clearly expects to be used on a console, as it looks horribly pixelated until you crank your resolution up to 1600x1200, at which point my computer gets about 2fps. And what ever happened to reloading my gun, or finding 30.06mm ammo? Again, this seems like just a simplification to accomodate the stupid XBox.
That said, I DO love the physics and lighting, but the simplification removes too much from the game and really ruins it for me.
I still hope the story will be good in the final version, but my level of disappointment is quite high. Should there be a Deus 3, I will have to think twice before buying it, and I CERTAINLY won't pre-order it the way I did this one.


Sorry, Eidos, you blew it.

The type of player that would choose to play DX1 or System Shock and actually finish the game and look forward to the next iteration of game would tend to be a hardcore game player. I am sure Ion Storm realizes this and also realizes that these hardcores are going to lash out at the removal of features that hardcore players enjoyed in DX1 and SS2. But design decisions have to be made. Should the NPC be able to see a leaning player? A leaning player by default is suspicious and should be shot at. If you were walking down the street and saw someone leaning around the edge of your neighbors house looking at you, what would you think? How fragmented should the ammo really be? Different ammo for handgun, shotgun, rifle, machine gun,flamethrower? Different ammo for 45 autoloader and 38 revolver?
How do you criple a novice players use of a handgun,
and still have it be fun? Make the aim warble back and forth like it would in real life, or make the hit points weaker? I didn't always appreciate picking up broken shotguns in System Shock 2, or running around beating Hybrids to collect credits, but I am sure people missed those features when DX1 came along. I guess it may boil down to what features greater than 50% of the players who buy your game will actually use, and concentrate
on them.
I wish I could lean though... I like that feature. But if I lean, I want to be shot at by default.

buzzfunk
23rd Nov 2003, 21:11
No localized damage. Hello? I guess this means that DX: Invisible War won't have a sniper rifle? Because if I shoot someone in the leg I don't wan't them to react the same way they should when they get hit in the face.


Rumor has it that localized damage is in the game, they just made the pistol weak and some of the settings will be addressed. Thats what i read on the Ion Storm boards.




Some of the choices I flat out don't get. The interface has LOST functionality and been COMPLEXIFIED to hell. On a PC you have this thing called a KEYBOARD. It has a lot more buttons than an X-Box controller, letting you do more things.

Couldnt agree more. Its simply lazy not to AT LEAST redesign the interface for the pc. Or give us a choice.

- like interface ala Deus Ex
- or for people who want more of a 'streamlined' interface (lol)


Its so funny. In my 23 years being into computers and game, ive never was so emotionally shocked about a game. I mean if you read some of my first posts, i maybe was a little off and just angry. More calmer now but still doesnt change the fact that the original fanbase got the shaft.

I have a feeling that a lot of folks who like the demo are either (please no offense...i dont mean all that in a BAD way):

a)in denial (like me after seeing Episode I...lol)
b)never played the first game
c)dont know what an rpg is

I remember playing DE2 at this years E3 and already smelling back then the 'console' oder. Back then at least the interface was almost like DE1. I remember asking one of the designers "wheres the skill system?" "ahh there isnt one". "wheres the cool biomod screen with the augs?" "ahhh thats it right there..." "ohh..wait, those couple of slots?" "huh...yeah".

It was pretty funny. Its good to know that Warren spector opposes the unified ammo. Too bad he wasnt who has the say.

I hope the xbox version will sell ****.

nightspore
23rd Nov 2003, 21:15
Originally posted by buzzfunk
Dude are you just ignorant or just not reading any of the messages??

Everyone knows that the game can be tweaked to the better. It Is the Core Gameplay that most people ***** about. Im not going through all of them again. Read some of the 9000 posts on this board.


I have read quite a few of the '9000' posts including all of the ones in this thread, and I guess I am ignorant just because I don't agree with your rather limited viewpoint.

I guess your definition of core gameplay differs from mine. I don't really consider reloading/unified ammo, leaning, etc. (all of which I do find to be very minor annoyances) part of the core gameplay. For me the core gameplay includes the story, the fact that I can use any one of a number of ways to go about completing any objective, and generally open-ended gameplay that allows me to explore things rather than putting me on a rail to find key A to get to point B.

True, from the small part of the game included in the demo it's hard to judge anything about the story, but the multiple pathways are still very much in evidence. I've played through the demo about 5 times, each time using different methods (including stealth).

buzzfunk
23rd Nov 2003, 21:17
I wish I could lean though... I like that feature. But if I lean, I want to be shot at by default.


Say what dude?? wtf?

Can u imagine playing Deus Ex 1 without leaning? I mean how many times did have to hide behind whatever. How do you see without getting cought or seen? Why would u wanna get shot?

Leaning is essential for sneaking. I wanna know whats around the corner without being heard and seen. So if the enemy is with his back to me, tell me, how would he see me if i lean quick?

buzzfunk
23rd Nov 2003, 21:24
I guess your definition of core gameplay differs from mine. I don't really consider reloading/unified ammo, leaning, etc. (all of which I do find to be very minor annoyances) part of the core gameplay. For me the core gameplay includes the story, the fact that I can use any one of a number of ways to go about completing any objective, and generally open-ended gameplay that allows me to explore things rather than putting me on a rail to find key A to get to point B.

You bet that mine differs from yours. Esp since i have such a 'limited viewpoint'.

Of course the story is core. Its a given. DE1 already gave you the choices to approach each mission however you wanted. However what made DE1 so much fun wasnt just the story, feel, stealth, it was also the rpg elements. Im not saying that some of the goods things arent here, but in terms of rpg elements, interface and other things, we got the shaft.

If you happy with the way it is, DUDE, enjoy. I envy you. Seriously.

Just as your voicing your liking with the game, i will voice my dislikes with it.

DarkForge
23rd Nov 2003, 21:25
I have never used the "lean" feature even once! :D

rysmith1215
23rd Nov 2003, 21:30
Too many people are overreacting to the demo. It's a demo. I, for one, found the game extremely entertaining. The controls were smooth, and the gameplay is just like the first game. Their are multiple ways to solve the same problem. I like how you can enter the apartment complex multiple different ways. Also their is much more to do than the standard storyline mission objectives. You can crawl in sewers, take part in cockfight betting, find cool gadgets by exploring, asassinate a Gob-Zilla(you'll see). The gameplay is there, but the demo level was kinda limited in terms of size. I only hope some of the levels are much larger like in the original.

The graphics are excellent, maybe not as good I hoped for, but still one of the better games available today in terms of graphics. The lighting is top notch, think Splinter Cell lighting and shadowing. The polygons on some objects are pretty weak, as some things in the enviroment and in the background are rather blah. Funny thing is other objects(barrells, people besides their faces, aliens, and robots) look very detailed. The backdrops are good but nothing revolutionary. The inconsistency of detailed objects are the only thing that bothers me. Overall, the graphics are quite excellent.

All in all, I was impressed and happy to see a potentially very good game with an excellent physics system(try playing with barrells, cones, and dead bodies). The game reminds me of the first one but still doesn't feel as open ended up to this point. I'll restrain my final review until I've beaten the retail version.

nightspore
23rd Nov 2003, 21:46
Originally posted by buzzfunk
You bet that mine differs from yours. Esp since i have such a 'limited viewpoint'.

...

If you happy with the way it is, DUDE, enjoy. I envy you. Seriously.

Just as your voicing your liking with the game, i will voice my dislikes with it.

LOL, I knew the minute I put in that 'limited viewpoint' comment it would be misunderstood. All I meant was that your viewpoint is that of a hardcore RPG gamer, not exactly the biggest market segment in the world (and believe it or not, I include myself in this very same category).

And no, I'm not completely happy with it as is, but I really do consider most of the points brought up to be relatively minor issues or quite easily fixable.

I hate to keep bringing up comparisons, but when Morrowind was released a lot of the hardcore Daggerfall fans had the same types of issues with that game, but in the end it really didn't matter because MW (in my opinion) is the best game ever released (I know, blasphemy on a DE board, lol). You just can't please everyone all the time.

And you do have every right to voice your displeasure with the demo. I don't remember if you were one of the people that stated you wouldn't buy it or cancelled your pre-order; at least wait until the full game comes out to make any sort of decision as to whether it stays true to the Deus Ex legacy or not.

bobk
23rd Nov 2003, 21:49
Originally posted by buzzfunk
Say what dude?? wtf?

Can u imagine playing Deus Ex 1 without leaning? I mean how many times did have to hide behind whatever. How do you see without getting cought or seen? Why would u wanna get shot?

Leaning is essential for sneaking. I wanna know whats around the corner without being heard and seen. So if the enemy is with his back to me, tell me, how would he see me if i lean quick?

Ok, if his back is to you, or if its dark, and you lean quick,
he should not shoot at you. I agree. Most of DX1 was in
the dark, so leaning works there. I hope they put leaning
back in, leaning in the dark. I think there should be a
danger in leaning. Like if light reflects off your helmet,
that should call attention to you. The programming behind
that feature may be complicated though.

buzzfunk
23rd Nov 2003, 21:57
LOL, I knew the minute I put in that 'limited viewpoint' comment it would be misunderstood

lol. ;)

p-i
23rd Nov 2003, 21:58
Originally posted by rysmith1215
The graphics are excellent, maybe not as good I hoped for, but still one of the better games available today in terms of graphics. The lighting is top notch, think Splinter Cell lighting and shadowing.

did you try shooting the lights? how about the walls?

buzzfunk
23rd Nov 2003, 22:03
Like if light reflects off your helmet,


Dude,lol, your reading too much into it. Just like moving forward and backwards, its not a hard thing to put in there. And even if some people dont use, its better to have it then not. I like it for the emersion factor. Nothing better then sneaking into a base, hide behind crates and lean to see wtf is going on...i love that.

Its been taken out for no reason. Streamlining gameplay? Please. Its just lazyness of the developer cause they saw no way to put that in with the xbox controller.

Question is, since the pc scene made the first one so successfull (read warrens interviews, he says himself that it sold very well), why not at least add features to the pc version?

This demo is a 100% port from the xbox ver. That explains why the mouse control was so off. And all what it took was fixed one lousy number. It just shows that they DO NOT care. They dont.

nobbystyles
23rd Nov 2003, 22:20
Hi there.

been playig the demo all day. found it lotsa fun. of course i do have gripes.

With only 12 slots and 1 of which will be a multitool why couldnt they give us the use of the F keys for inventory, everything at your fingertips I think better icons for weapons is needed. those greyed out blobs arent sufficient to quickly see which key to hit.

The baton can damage wooden crates but wont damage TVs or Cardboard.

The physics of individual items is good, BUT grab a body and throw it into the stack of barrels. may not work all the time but eventually you willl get a pinball effect where the body and Barrel will be catapulted at super high velocity across the area. i saw the unconscous body of sophia go orbital just because she was layig on a barrel and a few more landed on her head.

when you climb a ladder you put your gun away, yet if yo press the key for a weapon you cna contnue to climb with the gun out.

The guards will stand and figh the turret with a pistol rather than running away. but i suppose that shouldnt be too hard to change the AI behavour in patches.

they should have just given us the tutorials to play through like the ones in DX1. so we didnt have that superpowerful hacking biomod installed and then there wouldnt be so many people complaining about how hacking is so easy.and we could have seen ho to install mods and so on

The level was small but there are 2 doors you cant get through. the door int he room with the repair bot and the door into the hangar so there is still a bit left to explore.

The betting was pretty cool (even though you were told who was gonna win)

I dont mind the ammo system. i suppose with the whole increase in nanot tech usage all weapons now convert some sort of blue goo in those cartridges into the required ammo. in DX1 i dunno how many time i had too much of 1 type of ammo and not enogh of another. this way its all sorted. no being able to tell how much ammot you got is a worry but mayb stick in white lines to deignate what level the power will drop to when fired. I can only imagine what power will be used when using a rocket launcher.

the flamethrower rocked. just a few lciks of flame and they catchfire and start running around shouting for water. i havent tried to see what happens if you set them on fire them put them out and see if they are grateful

I like the general look of the game and it has the feel of Deus Ex 1 in my opinion.

Its easier to see cons than pros but a lot of this could be improved

I would buy this game still even though it made me a little uncertain to begin with

bobk
23rd Nov 2003, 22:27
Originally posted by buzzfunk
Dude,lol, your reading too much into it. Just like moving forward and backwards, its not a hard thing to put in there. And even if some people dont use, its better to have it then not. I like it for the emersion factor. Nothing better then sneaking into a base, hide behind crates and lean to see wtf is going on...i love that.

Its been taken out for no reason. Streamlining gameplay? Please. Its just lazyness of the developer cause they saw no way to put that in with the xbox controller.

Question is, since the pc scene made the first one so successfull (read warrens interviews, he says himself that it sold very well), why not at least add features to the pc version?

This demo is a 100% port from the xbox ver. That explains why the mouse control was so off. And all what it took was fixed one lousy number. It just shows that they DO NOT care. They dont.

Yeah, leaning does add to immersion.
Have you tried the F2 key? I think its their replacement
for leaning, but it is not as immersive.
I don't know what they were thinking with the
laggy mouse configuration. Did they want DX2 to
feel like the Xbox version so PC gamers could
experience what its like to own an Xbox?
MouseLagThreshold=70. Not an Xbox variable.
Nothing to do with Xbox controls. Makes PC FPS
gamers angry to play with mouse lag. Maybe they
are just playing with our heads. They should have
had a DX1 PC game player dial in the ini files before
they sent out the demo. Or, maybe they wanted to give
gamers something to complain about that they knew
they could fix easily.
I have been enjoying this demo. I throw barrels at
gaurds and they get mildly annoyed. I am imagining
with the strength mods, I will be able to throw heavy
objects at them, and slam them into the wall. I used
to enjoy stacking crates in stairwells then tripping alarms
and watching the gaurds trying to get by the crates,
then lobbing a grenade in their direction.
With the Havok physics, all new oportunities for that
kind of fun will open up I imagine.

MaxxQ
23rd Nov 2003, 23:11
Originally posted by nobbystyles
they should have just given us the tutorials to play through like the ones in DX1. so we didnt have that superpowerful hacking biomod installed and then there wouldnt be so many people complaining about how hacking is so easy.and we could have seen ho to install mods and so on

The entire first level of the game is the tutorial, and Krypt (IS designer) said there were too many story spoilers in it.


The betting was pretty cool (even though you were told who was gonna win)

Actually, on one of my playthroughs, I lost everything (about 500 credits) betting on Green Dragon. This was before the Gob-Zilla fight. I'm wondering if the betting is somewhat randomized...I might experiment with that later.

Psychotext
23rd Nov 2003, 23:11
In fairness I could live without decals. They are nothing more than a gimmick that affects gameplay in no way whatsoever. I'm peeved about not being able to blow up lightbulbs though!

Chris Carollo from Ion Storm says it's intentional unfortunately.

Oh, and bobk, you can kill people by throwing things at them (with the strength biomod on three).

bobk
23rd Nov 2003, 23:33
Originally posted by buzzfunk
Dude,lol, your reading too much into it. Just like moving forward and backwards, its not a hard thing to put in there. And even if some people dont use, its better to have it then not. I like it for the emersion factor. Nothing better then sneaking into a base, hide behind crates and lean to see wtf is going on...i love that.

Its been taken out for no reason. Streamlining gameplay? Please. Its just lazyness of the developer cause they saw no way to put that in with the xbox controller.

Question is, since the pc scene made the first one so successfull (read warrens interviews, he says himself that it sold very well), why not at least add features to the pc version?

This demo is a 100% port from the xbox ver. That explains why the mouse control was so off. And all what it took was fixed one lousy number. It just shows that they DO NOT care. They dont.

Jump in a dumpster and hit the F2 key. What do you think
of that? More or less potential than a lean key?
I like it. Jump into a dumpster when no one is looking.
Watch the direction they walk, jump out when they are not
looking.

BrianSiano2
23rd Nov 2003, 23:45
I've played through the demo at least twice now, after trying some of the tweaks to make it look nicer. I can't comment on the technical issues, like the speed, mouse lag, or the graphics.

First of all: Although this is just a demo, it's been released within three weeks of the game's actual release, so I think we can presume that there won't be many changes in the final product.

Second: I'm also going to hope that the demo's tweaking capability is substantially _less_ than that of the final game. The demo's just a taste, and perhaps Ion Storm decided to streamline those aspects. The final game will probably have lots of options for the user to tweak graphics and sound settings-- or, they might realize that they _ought_ to have that tweakability, and revise the menus for that purpose.

Third: I can't exactly see _why_ the demo was released. The actual adventure isn't exactly complex or involving: in fact, I was able to kill the guards and secure the jet _before_ going into the bar and getting the pilot. One could play the demo without all of the gambling foofaraw. If I were marketing the game, and I wanted first-timers to really want to buy the game, I'd want the demo to be, well, a little more self-contained and extensive, with something truly spectactular to attract players. (Like the opening movie, actually.) This was just a snippet that mainly served to give people a sense of the gameplay. So the demo felt a little strange. Exactly who was this for, anyway?

Fourth: Okay, I'm disappointed, and here's why.

Many of the things I really liked about DX were the really complicated things. I liked having to find the passwords for the terminals-- and the risk one took when hacking the system. Now, a terminal is about as secure as a lunchbox. Same goes for doors and boxes which required multiple lockpicks or multitools: that feature forced the player to strategize. Now, opening such things feels as though we have to watch a brief animation before the thing opens.

I'm going to miss the logging of conversations, too. For one thing, I'd forgotten which Greasel I was supposed to bet on. Would've been nice to be able to reread the chat.

And the interface has serious problems, too. Yes, it looks nice and techno-cool... but the old interface was lovely in its own way. And since a computer could handle the resolution to have _all_ of the inventory, biomods, and stuff at the periphery of the screen, plus tiny numbers which signify which key actuates the item, why not? This is something that Ion Storm _could_ fix within a few weeks, and I hope they do it.

The AI really isn't much to write home about. At one point, the woman in her office spotted me on the landing pad. She and a guard scrambled down the hall to run out... but they stopped in the hall somewhere, and gave up after a moment.

Still couldn't see much room for stealth, either. The prod didn't send anyone to sleep, there's no anesthetic ammo that I could see, and it didn't seem possible to simply knock people out with a head blow.

The physics were very nice, and a great enhancement to the game.

Okay, how about the increased interactivity? Nearly every object could be picked up and used, somehow-- like the bones in the greasel sewer area. That's nice, BUT, with such a _small_ inventory space, this interactivity just isn't worth the coding that went into it. If I have six or seven spots in which to store things, they'll fill up very quickly with grenades and spider-bots and medikits. I won't have room for brooms, bones, crates, or whatever.

I'll buy the game when it comes out, probably. But I'd really like to hear from Ion Storm about any changes they'll make before the final release. But for now, I just wish they'd stuck with most of the original game's interface, enhanced the engine a little, and worked more on the AI.

El Padrino
24th Nov 2003, 01:03
Originally posted by buzzfunk

Nah, it proves that a complex inventory system, a real rpg, can be done that is also accessible to everyone.


I was joking around. I don't like using smilies.



Originally posted by buzzfunk

Anyway you put it, the skill system makes an rpg. DE2 isnt one. Its an action/thriller with borrowed rpg elements. Thats all.


Originally posted by buzzfunk

An RPG is about choices. its about making decisions before you sometimes you know if you made the right one. THAT IS the fun part about it. if your totally happy with the demo, then your not looking for an rpg experience. Period.


Skill systems (or the skill system you're talking about from DX1) don't make an RPG; it's, as you've said, about choices (a level of which was absent from the demo due to your character coming prepackaged with biomods). Role playing doesn't necessarily mean having the ability to put points into shooting skills instead of healing skills. That's a choice, but not much of a role playing choice compared to the kind Invisible War is full of, where you have to decide who you side with and how far you go with making use of matter clips; along with the already adequate customization options biomods give you.

Alex D is a highly trained agent. If he or she can't shoot straight without first finding some hidden room or killing off some transgenic (for experience points), that wouldn't fit. It didn't fit in the first Deus Ex with JC, and I don't see how it would fit now. And a game can still be an RPG with the choice to be the kind of person that goes around fixing gresel fights or sneaking/talking your way through things, and without a skill system that makes you shoot better with pistols than a shotgun. The same can't be said the other way around.

And like I've said, you've got biomods, each of which has a significant impact on the gameplay. How exactly would adding skills on top of that bring another level of complexity that aids in the roleplay experience while still making sense.



Originally posted by buzzfunk

One ammo is mindboggling to me. Seriously. think about it. Yaa sure LESS TO WORRY ABOUT. But then an 'rpg' isnt for you. Go play quake. (oh wait..that has diff ammos..haha).


RPGs aren't for people that want more to worry about. And as many people have brought up, unified ammo brings different, not less things to worry about, like getting too friendly with that flamethrower at the expense of other weapons. (The flamethower is a tempting mistress.)

And I don't see how different types of ammo lying around, making it necessary to almost never use a weapon does anything but lessen player choice, since essensially you've got to use the weapons only as often as the developers think you should be able to use them. I've seen people on this forum complain that the developers should let players play any way they want when someone tried to justify the reasoning behind how (horrendeously) the locational damage in the game was being handled. Same thing. If I like running around with an SMG all the time, why should my playstyle be hampered by how often the developers think I should be using it?

If you'd rather not use the flamethrower all the time, nothing is stopping you from dedicating just one matter clip to it. There's something for you to worry about.

Try thinking of it like this:

Say a pistol clip gives you 10 rounds and a shotgun clip gives you 5. A total of 3 clips are scattered in a given level, 2 pistol and 1 shotgun. That gives you 20 pistol rounds and 5 shotgun shells.

With unified ammo, say one matter clip gives you 10 pistol rounds and 5 shotgun shells, just like with separate ammo. The same amount of matter clips (3) are scattered in a given level. That can still give you 20 pistol rounds and 5 shotgun shells.

But it also means you can instead have 30 pistol rounds and 0 shotgun shells, 10 pistol rounds and 10 shotgun shells, or 0 pistol rounds and 15 shotgun shells if you so desire.

Fans of more player choice get exactly that with unified ammunition, instead of being bogged down by what designers think you should be using more often. Not everyone is a fan of stealth or going in guns blazing.



Originally posted by buzzfunk

Thats what i thought. Heres the reason: C O N S O L E


I've played console FPSs with locatonal damage, reloading, leaning, and different ammo types. None of the features added any level of complexity that made their implementation inappropriate for consoles. They can hardly be the reason.

So something can be "blamed," just not the X-Box.



Originally posted by Baloon

-AUGS: Not even a aug interface. No comment.


You're right, no aug interface. But there is a biomod interface that got the job done. You can even map a button to it. Neat, eh?



Originally posted by rapa-nui

Some of the choices I flat out don't get. The interface has LOST functionality and been COMPLEXIFIED to hell. On a PC you have this thing called a KEYBOARD. It has a lot more buttons than an X-Box controller, letting you do more things.


So what is it exactly that's missing from the interface that you thought should be in there but wasn't simply because the devs must've thought the X-Box controller couldn't accomodate it?



Originally posted by buzzfunk

Can u imagine playing Deus Ex 1 without leaning? I mean how many times did have to hide behind whatever. How do you see without getting cought or seen? Why would u wanna get shot?


I never got why you shouldn't be seen while leaning. If I lean out from a wall, and you're on the other side, you're going to see me.

Anyway, yeah, I can imagine playing Deus Ex without leaning. I was just fine sneaking around without it. In other games I used it a few times, but not for any stealthy purposes. I just wanted to have a means to quicky get behind cover after firing off a few rounds.

But I sympathize with all the people that want it. It doesn't really seem too hard to have implemented; and it won't change too much or make the game singificantly less streamlined or unwieldy.



Originally posted by nightspore

MW (in my opinion) is the best game ever released (I know, blasphemy on a DE board, lol).


Somebody go fetch some rope and matches for the heretic.

jonaswakefieid
24th Nov 2003, 01:08
Did Anyone else notice that theres a "Rumble" feature in the options ....
*cough* X-Box demo *cough*

Just something I thought people should consider.
If the demo seems like its alot easier to complete one way then another way maybe it should. I could be wrong but is the character you start with in the demo already customized? If he is then maybe some other aspects would have been more viable with a different build of character that youd be welcome to make in the full game.

buzzfunk
24th Nov 2003, 01:35
Skill systems (or the skill system you're talking about from DX1) don't make an RPG; it's, as you've said, about choices (a level of which was absent from the demo due to your character coming prepackaged with biomods). Role playing doesn't necessarily mean having the ability to put points into shooting skills instead of healing skills.


Ok i can see the prepackaged deal because its the demo. Some valid points there.

Taken.

But still. Of course some folks love the simplicity, some dont care about the ammo but for the most part, the depth that made the first one great isn't IMPROVED on here. While you can still choose how to approach each situation, designing for the xbox has 100% influence on how this game turned out.

If you check out KOTOR then you know what i mean when i say DE2 isnt a RPG. PLease show me one game that does not have skill points of some sort. Its def a part of an RPG. Heck, even table games have skill levels. Its makes things more interesting.

If you want to play a simple 'RPG' play quake, UT, Sof, CoD, IIX or any of the other mill fps's.

Im not saying its all bad and stuff. And yeah sometimes change is a good thing but its just so painfully obvious that this game was designed for a console, and not like the first one, for the pc.

Trek234
24th Nov 2003, 01:44
Originally posted by Iron_Weasel
If you want to be pissed off, you should probably direct it at Harvey Smith, who was in charge of the project.

[b]

Yeah! Whatever happened to the good old days of DX 1 hacking, where you right-clicked on a console and THEN left-clicked the little 'hack' button! :rolleyes:

Cheers!

Iron Weasel

Wow. Obviously you have NEVER played Deus Ex 1. If you think hacking was just clicking you are SORELY mistaken.

El Padrino
24th Nov 2003, 02:04
Originally posted by buzzfunk
If you check out KOTOR then you know what i mean when i say DE2 isnt a RPG. PLease show me one game that does not have skill points of some sort. Its def a part of an RPG.

I take it you won't be happy if I say "Invisible War."

Biomods already let you customize your character and let you play a certain way better than others. It's essentially a skill system with a different name. The difference between skills and biomods in their functions is purely cosmetic.

The argument I was making was that another system with an interface labeled "skills" added on top of the biomod system wouldn't add anything significant or vital to the role playing experience. What universal aspects of skill systems don't biomods cover?



Originally posted by buzzfunk
If you want to play a simple 'RPG' play quake, UT, Sof, CoD, IIX or any of the other mill fps's.

Hmm, I suppose in a way, one could stretch the definition of RPG to accomodate those games. But what Invisible War has that they don't is a choice on how to approach the game. You can only shoot your way through levels, and side with whoever it is you're assigned to for Quake, UT, etc. Not much role playing for games on rails. And throwing in a skill system that makes you more proficient with grenade launchers than rail guns isn't going to alleviate that, and make it into an RPG akin to Deus Ex.

Role playing in Deus Ex didn't amount to putting points in rifles instead of swimming so you could blast your way to the top of the Statue of Liberty. What made it role playing was being able to decide between blasting your way to the top, or sneaking around and taking a more non-lethal approach, and role play as a gun-totting cowboy or stealthy, methodical, uh, "guy that knocks people out."

And according to reviews from critics who have played through it, or at least a lot more of it than the demo we got, Invisible War expands on this. I don't know about you, but deep down inside, I'm doing a happy dance.

buzzfunk
24th Nov 2003, 02:08
Ok, one of the DE2 designers called "Krypt" over at the Ion Storm forums had this to say:



Ok... well, I've found that I don't have enough time in the day to dedicate to attempting to satisfy everyone's concerns, so I'm just going to summarize now. Deus Ex:Invisible War is a brand new game. It isn't Deus Ex 1 over again, and we didn't create it to conform to any previous paradigms. I know many of you had certain expectations for it, being a sequel, but maybe it isn't going to be exactly what you expected. If you are disappointed, then we apologize. At the same time, we thank those who appreciate the new direction we have taken, and we welcome the fans, new and veteran alike, who will enjoy the game on its own merits.

and now I come back to what I was saying in my first post on this thread (though hopefully in a less inflammatory fashion this time around). The game is what it is. It is different, and is presented in new ways, which maybe many of you will never like, but the narrative, emergent gameplay, and multiple solutions are still there. I remain confidant that overall, the vast majority of players will enjoy DX:IW and have a memorable experience playing it. Yes, the response on the forums has been mostly negative, but the forums only represent a small percentage of the overall player-base.

So, I'm done posting here for now. Thanks for the civil discussion, I was expecting much more mindless flaming than I actually got. You guys are awesome. I look forward to seeing your reactions to the whole game when it comes out on Dec 3rd.


LOL. Nice way of saying "well so we see the comments are mostly negative but **** it, your just nobody and we still sell ****loads.

Your not getting my ****in money.

El Padrino
24th Nov 2003, 02:18
Well, while we're quoting Krypt:

"Were 20 different types of ammo, reloading, a jigsaw puzzle inventory, and leaning what made DX1 a great game? No. It was the emergent gameplay, multiple solutions to problems, character customization, and an involving storyline. DX:IW still has all of these, and more so for some of them. Yes, a lot of things have changed. No, not everyone will like how they've changed (as is very evident reading these forums). This is how we made the game, and we stand by it. If you don't like it, you don't have to buy it."

"A lot of people can't seem to get past the interface, the ammo system, the lack of leaning, etc. and just play the actual game. The elements that made DX1 great are retained in the sequel, and are improved in many cases. I think people who enjoyed the game for the immersive elements, the story, and the gameplay will like DX:IW as much or more than DX1.

All I'm saying is that DX:IW is not DX1. It is a new game, and if you were expecting it to be exactly like DX1 with better graphics then sorry to disappoint you."

"I think that when people play the full game from the start they will like it much more than the demo. It is hard to see the entirety of what makes DX:IW great in the small microcosm you have played. In the demo you have no investment in the story, you have no fictional context for why you're in this place or what you're doing there, you didn't get to customize your biomods or weapons or inventory to your liking, etc. The real strengths of the game can't really be shown in a demo. If everyone still hates the game after playing through the full version, for reasons besides "it has big text" or "i don't like how the HUD looks" then that will mean we failed. So far I have yet to hear anything but overwhelmingly positive reactions from people who played the full game (both DX1 fans and people who knew nothing about the game)."

Alexandra D.
24th Nov 2003, 02:21
The demo was disappointing, to say the least. I can only hope that the PC version hasn't gone gold yet (I have yet to hear if it has and I am also beginning to wonder if the Dec. 3rd date is for the Xbox version only) and that Eidos will wait to release it if they haven't already fixed the bugs, unified ammo and console-ish feel. Don't get me wrong, I'm a console gamer too, but I know what feels right on a console and what feels right on a PC. If this had been a beta, the problems would have been acceptable. But a demo is what you expect the game to be like, and if the game is anything like the demo BEFORE the code fixes, then, sadly, I think I'll be cancelling my pre-order.

Psychotext
24th Nov 2003, 02:25
Krypt's post is a little disappointing. The sad thing is he is right. It's like saying, well... marketing reckon that if we get the game out quick enough now then people will buy it no matter what it is like. We can guarantee 10,000 gamers who buy pretty much every game, 20,000 gamers from the name alone, 15 Deus Ex fans and 50,000 mothers looking for a xmas present.

Obviously the numbers are rubbish, but my point is the same. The real shame is that yes, the game will be ok and the story will probably be fine. BUT THE GAME COULD HAVE BEEN SPECTACULAR! It's all just a missed opportunity for greatness.

It's like a ford focus versus a Rolls Royce silver shadow. Sure, the focus is a solid car, nice in its own way and people will by it in droves. But it isn't the sort of car other car makers aspire to create, it's really nothing that special and you're a hell of a lot less likely to have any sort of passionate fanbase to it (Which we are more than likely to lose for Deus Ex unless the game is much much better than the demo.).

I'm so depressed about it all that I'm not even sure what point I was trying to make. I still wait in hope that the demo was the worst mistake Ion ever made and that the game brings back all the fun I had with the original Deus Ex. I'll even ignore the lazy use of unified ammo if that turns out to be the case.

buzzfunk
24th Nov 2003, 02:37
I can only hope that the PC version hasn't gone gold yet (I have yet to hear if it has and I am also beginning to wonder if the Dec. 3rd date is for the Xbox version only)

Nah the game is done dude. The dec 3rd is confirmed for both versions meaning that they already being in production in order to make that date.

Krypt also said he has no idea if a patch is even planned.

Alexandra D.
24th Nov 2003, 02:43
Well, that's special. Makes me wonder if they give a flip about anything anyone here has said. Maybe they get a kick out of depressing those of us who have waited 3 years for this game to come out. It's possible that Eidos just thinks we'll get sick of complaining about this debacle soon enough.

Oh, by the way, I'm a dudette. One of the few here, I think.

buzzfunk
24th Nov 2003, 02:50
Cool. ;)

Shinnosuke
24th Nov 2003, 02:54
Originally posted by Psychotext
Krypt's post is a little disappointing. The sad thing is he is right. It's like saying, well... marketing reckon that if we get the game out quick enough now then people will buy it no matter what it is like. We can guarantee 10,000 gamers who buy pretty much every game, 20,000 gamers from the name alone, 15 Deus Ex fans and 50,000 mothers looking for a xmas present.

Obviously the numbers are rubbish, but my point is the same. The real shame is that yes, the game will be ok and the story will probably be fine. BUT THE GAME COULD HAVE BEEN SPECTACULAR! It's all just a missed opportunity for greatness.

It's like a ford focus versus a Rolls Royce silver shadow. Sure, the focus is a solid car, nice in its own way and people will by it in droves. But it isn't the sort of car other car makers aspire to create, it's really nothing that special and you're a hell of a lot less likely to have any sort of passionate fanbase to it (Which we are more than likely to lose for Deus Ex unless the game is much much better than the demo.).

I'm so depressed about it all that I'm not even sure what point I was trying to make. I still wait in hope that the demo was the worst mistake Ion ever made and that the game brings back all the fun I had with the original Deus Ex. I'll even ignore the lazy use of unified ammo if that turns out to be the case.

Hahahaha, I like your analogy there. I think it is slightly lacking though.

The case is more that ferrari released the testarossa. everyone loved it, it' became one of the most favourite cars in the world. A few years later they say they have a followup to that testarossa, a testarossa 2 if you will. And its design turns out to be reasonably good looking, but nothing special, like a fiat sportswagon. But under the hood it turns out to be a massmarket engine used by ford/toyota. it is also focused on the mass market.

Instead of admitting this is a car for the Masses designer/engineer 'Krypt' tells us that people need to get over the crappy feel and bad parts. It's the same quality, just 'different'

Now, if the new car had been a lambourghini people wouldn't have complained. Sure the car is different, but it also looks good and also drives like a charm, after getting used to it's new feel.

This is however not the case. If this demo is representative of the final game, and I think it would be irrational to deny it is, then the game is just a mediocre affair, hardly if at all rising above it's competitors. A new Quake 2 or Unreal 2 if you will.

No Krypt says, the format is slightly different but the aspects everyone liked are still in the game: free choice how to handle your mission and the narrative immersion.

Lies I tell you. The first game may have had hammy acting but not this piss-poor attempt.
The first game didn't give you the options you had on a silver platter at the beginning of a mission, like this game does in all missions (don't believe me, look up some video reviews from sites).

People don't especially mind different (besides a very small hardcore group). People mind it when companies try to pass poor games unto them pretending they are brilliant, and insulting our intelligence while they do it.

I said it before in a thread: Especially XBOX players hsould not buy this game. If they do they are basically admitting they want dumbed down pc games that aren't even shadows of their great originals. That the simple massmarket approach is what they prefer over quality.

I think that makes about as much sense as a dung beetle in a urinal.

And XBOX gamers have shown this in their positive reception of games like Morrowind and KOTOR. By supporting those games you showed the world you want quality. Now have the strength not to purchase this game and show that it works both ways.

nightspore
24th Nov 2003, 03:07
Originally posted by MaxxQ
Actually, on one of my playthroughs, I lost everything (about 500 credits) betting on Green Dragon. This was before the Gob-Zilla fight. I'm wondering if the betting is somewhat randomized...I might experiment with that later.

The fights are slightly randomized. In my last playthrough Claw won the final fight; lost me 500 credits too.

Atlas
24th Nov 2003, 03:09
First off... I've never played DX1. A friend of my has played it for a year and knew that DX:IW was coming out and had me download the demo tonight and try it.

What can I say. Overall... It sucked big time. Here's the things I didn't like:

1- (This is the big disappointment for me) The demo was too damned small especially for 250MB (roughly).

2- The mouse delay of almost 1 second. What the hell is that??? I move my mouse to the right and it takes a second damn near for the game to respond.

3- No real objectives. The only thing that seemed to be an objective (which really wasn't an objective at all and the developers, publishers and players who played this game know it) was to talk to the guy that had the plane. Lame....

4- Com system is blocks your view of whatever it is your doing. Shoulda had that open in a different console if anything or make it smaller AND NOT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE SCREEN!

5- What the hell good is unified ammo?? Unified ammo sucks major ass. I run out of ammo using a pistol and I can't switch to the shotgun or flamethrower?? What were you thinking??? No matter how futuristic things become in this world and the virtual world, ammo will NEVER BE UNIFIED!!!! That is the stupidist thing I have ever heard or seen.

That would be like you eating a bowl of cereal and when your done, you don't have any more food in the house because it was "unified".

6- Headshots. 6+ headshots to kill someone? I'm not even going to touch that one. And I shot off about 150 with the turret to kill the 3 people (that I could barely make out were even there).

7- FPS sucks so bad it's off the charts! I get better FPS is 3Dmark2003 for cryin' out loud! And that's a damned bench test!

8- NO ABILITY TO CUSTOMIZE KEYBOARD CONTROLS.

9- NO ABILITY TO CUSTOMIZE VIDEO SETTINGS. This includes graphics settings. Also, the game ALWAYS starts in 640 x 480 mode.

10- The amount of inventory you can hold is too small.

11- You have to go to your weapons console to swap out weapons instead of having them all available on a weapon cycle.

12- The way you can climb a ladder. There are a few things with this one.

12a- When on the ladder, say in the middle, you can turn completely around and still be on the ladder being able to climb up or down.

12b- You holster the weapon to climb up/down a ladder. This will screw players big time when an enemy is above or below the ladder and can shoot you.

12c- You can't "jump" off a ladder. At least I couldn't. Not even with the jump button.

13- Flame thrower distance is too short.

14- The physics are messed up to. Catching someone on fire, they stand, run around screaming for like 4 minutes. You can shoot a dead body with the pistol and it will jump 5 feet in a forward direction.

15- Poison takes too long to react with the character. It should be like a 30 second thing. Not 3+ minutes or make it a tranquilizer instead to work right away.

16- You can rob the ATM but not people?

17- Last (for now) is the AI characters are just plain stupid. I ran into the office with the 2 women and was running around for like 4 seconds before anything started to happen. That also goes for the girl in the apartment room. She saw me when she came into the room and I was in the window. I stood there and she walked right up to me before she started to shoot me. AI needs to be a hell of a lot faster and better.

If any of these things are the same in the retail version, then this game will be the death of Deus Ex period. What I don't get is how does a developer and publisher go from making a game that recieves 30 awards to this beta? Because that's exactly what this demo is - a beta. For a demo, it was made very shady. Hell the Half Life 2 beta that was leaked had better graphics than this game.

Oh. The things I liked about the demo:

1- nothing.

I am certainly not going to buy this game any time soon. I think I'll wait until they have done a few patches first. Plain and simple, this is the worst demo I have ever played. I bet that if I download the "Call of Duty" demo, that would be a hell of a lot better than this one. And it doesn't have anything to do with being a first person shooter game. It has to do with the quality of the product, which from what I've seen, DX:IW just doesn't have any.

Buka Rox
24th Nov 2003, 03:13
hahaha, like meals on wheels.


One last hope for people is that the full game will offer an excellent story and this immersion will allow us to overlook some of the gameplay shortcomings (even if this is very much against Warren's philosophy - in fact, I think he'd have preferred to reduce the scale of the game, and just make perfect what there is - to give people joy from replaying the great gameplay in different ways).

I hope the story does begin to rescue it, but I can't see it.

For example, I click NEW GAME and choose REALISM as the difficulty. I am playing the game 20 seconds when I turn left and run into a guard. The dialogue goes, in bastardised form, something vaguely like this:

- "I work for Ms. Sak, you can't come in. How do I know you aren't working for Mr. Black?"

- "I want to settle the account"

- "You better not be feeding me a line"

- "You wouldn't fall for something like that".

And he lets me go. Then I PULL A GUN AND SHOOT HIM ONCE IN THE HEAD. "Hey, stop that!". And he let's me go.

This is on "Realism". Sigh. After all the bullish talk from Warren (who I still think is a brilliant designer - this mess isn't his fault, except for the fact he believed originality is more important than a cohesive experience, and thus gave Harvey the job), after all the talk of immersive worlds and an even greater suspension of disbelief, the first man I meet is indifferent to being shot in the head. On REALISM. Nothing more than a slight breach of social etiquette.

So aside from all the other problems, I don't hold out much hope for the full game's story/immersive aspect.

Alexandra D.
24th Nov 2003, 03:17
I bet on Green Dragon the first time I played and lost it all. The second time I bet on Shuttlebug and won. That match didn't seem randomized, but I'll play again and bet on Shuttlebug to see if I lose.

My second go-around, I came out of the final fight with something like $2000, thanks to "incapacitating" Gob-zilla.

Shinnosuke
24th Nov 2003, 03:29
Originally posted by Alexandra D.
I bet on Green Dragon the first time I played and lost it all. The second time I bet on Shuttlebug and won. That match didn't seem randomized, but I'll play again and bet on Shuttlebug to see if I lose.

My second go-around, I came out of the final fight with something like $2000, thanks to "incapacitating" Gob-zilla.

The problem isn't so much wether the fights are random. They should be random. One beast should be better/stronger but that fights should not be decided beforehand but rather in a true contest of skill between the 2 a.i. creatures.

Problem is that the AI of the creatures is horrible. Watching a pokemon match is more exciting. And the inherent illogical fundamental of the fact that Gob-zilla is in this woman's home, but the replacement isn't. Where is this mystery oldtimer? Why can't we kill him too? Where does the other contestant live, why can't we kill his creature?

With all the talk about multiple choices and the supposedly Hegelian duality that drives the adventure; the concept of contrast is sorely lacking. It ends up just being a gimmick used to work through the surface conflicts to achieve some greater transcendental unity. And fails, miserably.

Sense
24th Nov 2003, 03:43
Originally posted by buzzfunk
Ok, one of the DE2 designers called "Krypt" over at the Ion Storm forums had this to say:





LOL. Nice way of saying "well so we see the comments are mostly negative but **** it, your just nobody and we still sell ****loads.

Your not getting my ****in money.

Not getting my money either.

Buka Rox
24th Nov 2003, 03:44
Originally posted by Alexandra D.
I bet on Green Dragon the first time I played and lost it all. The second time I bet on Shuttlebug and won. That match didn't seem randomized, but I'll play again and bet on Shuttlebug to see if I lose.

My second go-around, I came out of the final fight with something like $2000, thanks to "incapacitating" Gob-zilla.

haha, that's cool. Of course, Havery Smith insists that Invisible War is all about choices. Which forces me to look at what choices he's made. Is it really cool to have two small frogs like that fighting for money? Sure, people race snails, but there's probably a pithy thrill to that, a momument to absurdity. This is neither funny nor awesome. Deep in the heart of nowhere, locked in the decay and flickering flames and long shadows of an underground bar in a world of postmodern grime and posthuman politics, the last thing I want is this pathetic fight which makes me cringe for the game's designers. Deus Ex 1's creatures looked better.

This is in addition to all of Shinnosuke's good points about the stunted nature of even this "set piece" scenario (which invites us to fiddle with it).

It's all about choices, and at the end of the day, Harvey still hasn't worked out why a sexy dudette like yourself will get lasting pleasure from spending her nights watching two green dwarfs spit at each other.

As you say in your post, you're playing to see the extent of the randomisation. So far from achieving their goal of making the mechanics invisible to the sense of the immersion, it's actually so poorly implemented that we constantly have to test the limits of reality, to see how low the ceiling is.

Shinnosuke
24th Nov 2003, 03:53
Originally posted by Buka Rox
[B]haha, that's cool. Of course, Havery Smith insists that Invisible War is all about choices. Which forces me to look at what choices he's made. Is it really cool to have two small frogs like that fighting for money? Sure, people race snails, but there's probably a pithy thrill to that, a momument to absurdity. This is neither funny nor awesome. Deep in the heart of nowhere, locked in the decay and flickering flames and long shadows of an underground bar in a world of postmodern grime and posthuman politics, the last thing I want is this pathetic fight which makes me cringe for the game's designers. Deus Ex 1's creatures looked better.

In fact you are absolutely right. Every aspect so far of this demo suggests to me that developers should take note from the way that Valve designed Halflife 1. By working in a Cabal structure the synthesis of several expertises together with the strong leadership of management made sure that any bad note in the harmonic whole was noticed.
The absence of integration between opposing musical poles results in a series of structural ruptures. This pisspoor fight is a clear example of such a rupture.
In a game like Deus ex linearity and nonlinearity should work simultaneously. Their opposition does not need to be resolved through dialectical integration.
If the freedom of choice and possibilities had been the same as in Deus Ex 1 the intrinsic narrative of the story and choices would have been the narrative of the subject, therefore reaching a fulfilling conclusion.