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View Full Version : [SPOILERS] Kain's Nobility? One against the Rapture!!!



Ravage
1st Nov 2003, 18:12
For those who have not played the video games, massive spoilers abound.


Although a vampire, Kain exhibits a sense of honor and nobility not expressed in the human denizens of Nosgoth. Many would argue against this, seeing as Kain kills human warriors and even peasants, but what Kain does is not out of some amoral disgust or hatred, it is survival of the fittest, a type of nature at its work. The weak humans are prey to manipulation by fanatical organizations, some religious, others not, and thus they themselves become zealot warriors, fully trapped in their insane ideology. These warriors then go about and prey on the very class they once came from. There are few if any true humans that are strong and display the same nobility and honor that Kain has. The only one that comes to mind is King Ottmar and he died in battle, his last words were: “The Nemesis and his Horde fall upon us, my friend. I fear I can defend Nosgoth no longer. The Nemesis must be destroyed. For my daughter, Kain... For the world...”. The fledging Kain did as the king requested, something of which no other in Nosgoth would have done, he killed the young King William the Just before he became the evil despot known as the Nemesis and stopped him from ravaging Nosgoth and killing countless human lives with his Legions. This had the effect of creating a new hatred for Kain and all vampires, the humans that worshipped King William the Just, became the pawns to Moebius the Time Streamer, like sheep to their master, listening to his every word, trusting him completely with their lives. Thus they did as their master commanded, killing off all vampires, until Kain stopped their madness and beheaded their cruel leader. Kain was through with humanity; he could never go back, he could never again tirade while trying to be like them. He wasn’t like them, he had never been like them, he was unique in that his nobility and honor were true, to that end he realized that he was better than they are. More than this his powers and strengths were of his own body, his own will, his mind his own faculty not that of any society, his actions would decide the fate of all. Kain choose to save the vampires because he had found within them a type of natural superiority to the humans. While the humans dawdled on with their pretty conflicts against one another, the vampires fought against the true evils that plagued Nosgoth. Time and time again, Kain saved humanity from those evils. Did he enslave humanity? Yes. Did he and his vampiric armies kill humans? Yes, but when Kain and his vampiric race had the choice to destroy humanity once and for all, they said a resounding, “No”! This is what separates Kain from the humans; humanity with their insane ideological hatred would have wiped out the vampires entirely, but for whatever reason Kain did not stoop to their level. This displays that Kain does not have the bigotry for humans that most humans have for vampires. Those humans that have helped Kain, he has treated with respect. Those humans, vampires, and others, that have stood in his way, attempting to destroy him, he has finished. Who, when faced with the threat of death, would not do the same. Betrayal against Kain was not acceptable, it was dishonor and the price was death. Is this a harsh punishment, yes, but it is also a part of Kain’s own code of honor. How is it any worse, than locking up criminals in a prison for their deeds, as had been done in the Eternal Prison, when Kain gave mercy to those that had suffered there for an eternity? Throughout all of this, Kain has always told the truth, but never did he need to justify his actions to humans. Compared to the powerful vampires, humanity is cattle. Since humans do not justify their actions by discussing it with cattle, nor poultry, nor any type of animals, and they themselves enslave such creatures to their own will. Why should Kain not do the same with humans, if he is more intelligent, stronger, and more powerful than they are. It is the inevitable course that plays out, the drama of history. In such regard there is no difference, the difference lies in how Kain treats those cattle that serve him, and even at times those that do not serve him.
Kain does not discriminate as humans do; all are food for his hunger, humans are cattle and nothing more, yet even cattle deserve a type of respect if they are worthy of it and this is where the difference lies.

Kain The Ancient
1st Nov 2003, 21:00
"Did he and his vampiric armies kill humans? Yes, but when Kain and his vampiric race had the choice to destroy humanity once and for all, they said a resounding, “No”! This is what separates Kain from the humans; humanity with their insane ideological hatred would have wiped out the vampires entirely, but for whatever reason Kain did not stoop to their level."

Vampires need to feed , thus they need humans to survive. They could never wipe out humanity and survive. Humans need vampires to be the pillar guardians and keep they hylden from invading their world , but these informations they have lost in the midst of time , so they only seem the vampires as an unholy plague , which is totally understandable when you consider every single vampire is forced to prey on humans , killing them just to feed. Imagine if every night , a few vampires would come to your town and devour members of your family or your friends , would you not hate these creatures and want their annhilation.

I'll agree with you that Kain is not as malevolent as some might think , but he's definitively not a saint. He's an arrogant tyrant only caring about his own power , and the only reason he's bothering to save nosgoth is because he doesn't want to rule a wasteland for all eternity.

10th Guardian
1st Nov 2003, 23:54
The difference between humans and sheep is that humans can think and have a soul. Kain would have wiped them all out except then he would have nothing to feed on or to make other vampires with. I'll admit that Kain did some good things, but in the end of BO1, he made the choice to DAMN the entire world instead of giving it a chance to survive. To me, that is a big WEAKNESS in character

RA Fox
2nd Nov 2003, 09:55
If everybody would be self-righteous it wouldn't be so interesting, cuz they would act the same. I liked his decision, I would do the same. Why do I need to sacriface myself if I can try to find another path. Besides, if he would do it, then we wouldn't see BO2 and other, probably...
Kain is a very strong character in his spirit, he has suffered much, same as Raziel, nobody of them cries about it, they go on.

10th Guardian
2nd Nov 2003, 13:14
Originally posted by RA Fox
Why do I need to sacriface myself if I can try to find another path.

The only thing about that is that at the time he made the decision, he had no idea about the chronoplast chamber or that there was any way to change his destiny. He made the decision only with the knowledge that by not sacrificing himself, he was damning the world. Don't get me wrong, I think Kain is an incredible character, but I just do not see him as a righteous character. He has become very self serving over the centuries

RA Fox
2nd Nov 2003, 13:44
Yes! Yes! :) That's the point. He is self-serving and selfish tyrant , but agree he is not so said - EVIL. His path involves a lot of darkness. But he never lies, many times because of his arrogance. He is not trying to say that he is the bad or good one. He is what he is :) Not all deeds can be understood by everyone, yet I understand him somehow.
I'm not a crazy fan as it may look. I just like and respect the way he acts and his point of life/living... whatever.

Ravage
2nd Nov 2003, 16:28
I'd go so far to say that Kain is the ultimate gray character in Nosgoth, you never know what's going to happen with him, he is the ultimate wild card. The most balanced character in Nosgoth, ironic considering his destiny to become the Balance Guardian.

10th Guardian
2nd Nov 2003, 23:33
Originally posted by Ravage
I'd go so far to say that Kain is the ultimate gray character in Nosgoth, you never know what's going to happen with him, he is the ultimate wild card. The most balanced character in Nosgoth, ironic considering his destiny to become the Balance Guardian.

I'd agree with that, except I think he is less about balance and more about changes of opinion. I think in BO1, he still clung to his humanity for the most part and tried to do the right thing. Then in SR, it seemed that he became "evil," in that he seemed to be absolutely corrupted by absolute power. But now, in SR2 and I would assume in defiance, it seems that he is not only trying to redeem the world, but also himself. He is definitely deep in the gray, and I for one can't wait to see where he goes from here.

Divine Soul
3rd Nov 2003, 02:45
I'm not up to par as much as you folks are on this but we saw the future of Nosgoth or a possible future in SR2 with all these demons. I don't know much about them yet(still trying to catch up) are they related to the Hylden? If so could it be that they have had something to do with the original demise of the pillars? Perhaps along the way here Kain has found out that there is another Evil power or something along that line that is trying to gain control(for whatever reason) of Nosgoth and he is simply trying to stop it from happening. After all he is the balance guardian. I could be wrong and I'm sure I am :) As far as Kains behavior toward humanity, it seems justified considering he IS a vampire and that is how they survive. Plus humans did do him in. I'm not really sure just some thoughts...I'm still new to this forum

I love all this theory talk, makes the game more fun :D

Deathbunny
3rd Nov 2003, 02:56
Yeah, I think the demon were related to the Hilden. It's nothing real specific, except for the electric and gas ones are aesthetically similar to the Hilden in BO II. Plus the comment that Kain makes at the end of SR 2 about 'we fell for the hylden trap' pretty much seals the deal. If they're not hilden themselves, then they're agents. Also, keep in mind the connection between the glyphs in SR 1 and in other spots through the series and the glyph energy used by the hylden in BO II...