View Full Version : Defiance Janos, Vampiric curse, and SR2 Murals

Camus Audron
26th Oct 2003, 01:35
Hm....I wonder, Could Janos'es Golden glow (www.nosgoth2.net/Defiance/Screenshots/DefS11.jpg )(<-Link) have anything to do with This Ancient warrior's golden glow? (www.blueancients.com/screens/savior.jpg )(<-Link)

If you look closely at Janos'es screenshot, it seems like most of the wings are normal, and it's just the tip of the feathers that has got an orange/golden glow, as if they were being lit from the back...could it be that it has something to do with the Gold glowing ancient?

There's a lot of fishy stuff revolving around red/yellow(golden?) glow in those underground murals, this mural (www.blueancients.com/screens/blodlust.jpg ) (<-Link) for example shows the two ancients that are tumbling on the floor with Yellow glow in the center of the red glow, while the one with his hands in the air only has red glow.The reaver also switches from Red glow (www.blueancients.com/screens/bluefght.jpg ) (<-Link) to Yellow/Golden glow (www.blueancients.com/screens/savior.jpg ) (<-Link) between these 2 murals, all this confusion makes the color of a glow seem pretty significant.
I would say that the Red glow clearly signifies Bloodlust, but Golden glow is not so clear...we could say it is inmortality, as such thing IS a side effect of the vampiric curse, and is also a side effect of weilding the reaver, but it can always mean something more.

Analyzing the Forges' murals, I spotted some more interesting details. For example in this Air forge curse mural (http://www.blueancients.com/screens/afcurse.jpg)(<-Link) we see on one side triumphant hylden surrounded by blue flying skulls, probably souls because they reasemble SR2 souls so much.On the other side are the Ancients falling from the sky with a red glow. The triumphant Hylden at the top of the hill, and the falling red glowing Ancients obviously show that it is the vampiric curse, but these blue flying skulls, much like the monster SR2 souls...dont seem to fit in, what do those souls have to do with anything? does it have something to do with the Hylden's hability for possesion?is the vampiric curse some form of possesion? and what does the red stone imbed on the mural mean?

I have no idea about any of the answers of these questions, only hint I've found is these light forge murals: This pillar erection mural (http://www.blueancients.com/screens/lfmessiah.jpg)(<-Link) and thisHylden Banishment (http://www.blueancients.com/screens/lfhylden.jpg) (<-Link) both have the same "frame". (if that's the right term) Now, if you look at the botton of it, you see 9 vertical lines, clearly representing the pillars, and to the sides of it you see little creatures dancing, the way they move, and their overall shape remind me of the slaugh....so, based on this impression, I thought: what if, the center of the botton of the frame represents hylden banishment (pillars) and the sides of it represent the retaliation the hylden made against the Ancients? what if what this means, is that somehow the hylden trespassed the hunger of the slaugh to the Ancient, with a modified technique of possesion which spread the essence of the slaugh to the Ancient?

these are just some thoughts that came up when looking back at these murals, I felt like sharing them to see what you all thought.feel free to comment and agree/disagree with my perceptions

26th Oct 2003, 03:07
You may be on to something, but could I make a request?

Could you go back and edit out all instances of " newwindow" (that's "space-newwindow") from the URLs you provided? They don't make the links open in new windows, but they do break them -- I had to go copy all the URLs to a blank .txt file and manually edit them to make them work so I could see the pictures you were linking to.

Camus Audron
26th Oct 2003, 03:14
allright, I will. the reason they're like that is because I copied them from a post I did in a ezboard (Nosgothic), I will change them asap

26th Oct 2003, 03:34
Originally posted by Camus Audron
allright, I will. the reason it's like that is because I copied them from a post I did in a ezboard (Nosgothic), I will change them asap

Thank you. That makes following your post much easier.

26th Oct 2003, 06:39
i belive that Janos IS the ancient hero.

And do you find it odd that the ancients are useing the bloodreaver On the hylden in this pic? I mean the reaver was "saposedly" made before the blood curse, yet here we have the ancient usign the reaver befor the curse.

And since it was forged to be a blood stealing weapon we know that the ancients had to have had vampiric powers befor the blood curse. This is what make me distus tthe ancient i belive they were always vampires and that the hylden just cursed them to undeath.

Secrets Of Nosgoth
26th Oct 2003, 07:00
I don't think that the first picture is of Janos. Maybe I'll be proven wrong when the game comes out, but I don't see that as being him. No reason why it can't just be any other Ancient. But there is a good chance the glyph picture is actually Janos because he seemed to be around when the Soul Reaver was forged because he told Raziel, and I quote the outtakes, "alone it was forged for you, and for you alone." That has very little to do with why Janos was alive during the time of the forging but I just wanted to quote the outtakes. :)

And there is no question that the ancient vampires had vampiric powers before the curse. Otherwise that'd mean the Hylden cursed them, but also gave them immense power.

26th Oct 2003, 21:32
I think the curse is actually the fact that they NEED blood to survive instead of their vampiric abbilities, so this means that without the curse they still would have vampiric abbilities (like immortality, special powers etc.), but they could also survive without blood. It might also gave them all their vampiric weaknesses like water, sunlight weaknesses etc. What do you guys think about this?

and I think we could all agree that Janos does resemble quiet a lot of the ancient beings...

Kain The Ancient
27th Oct 2003, 02:35
I'm gonna try giving my interpretation of the hylden/ancient conflict.

In the beginning there were two races , the Hylden and the Ancients. The ancients were god-like beings with wings and blue skin , and they tried to protect the land from they hylden. It is unknown if they were immortal , or exactly what powers they had.

The ancient fought in a great war , using their holy weapon , the Reaver. In this pic , we see someone akin to Raziel fighting the hylden with the Blood Reaver. It it unknown when in the conflict this particular scene happenned , but it shows the ancient before their curse.
The War (http://www.blueancients.com/screens/bluefght.jpg)

The ancients then decided to seal their enemies in another dimension , so they errected the pillars of nosgoth for that purpose.
Erection of the Pillars (http://www.blueancients.com/screens/lfmessiah.jpg)
Hylden Being Banished (http://www.blueancients.com/screens/lfhylden.jpg)

In an act of vengence the hylden then used their dark powers and cursed the ancient with the blood curse. The ancients litterally felt from the sky , as if they were not able to fly anymore , and infected with a curse so deep it would cause their demise.Notice the visual representation of the curse , that of a skull with vampire teeths. Maybe the hylden decided to curse the ancients with blood curse as a way of saying "You have drained us for years with the almight blood reaver , now you will have to drink blood to survive".
The Blood Curse (http://www.blueancients.com/screens/afcurse.jpg)

Thus , the ancients became undead , unable to reproduce and forced to drain the blood of others to survive. They devoured animals to survive , and appeared to burn , maybe because of sunlight's touch.
The dark curse (http://www.blueancients.com/screens/blodlust.jpg)

The ancient started to die somehow (maybe they could not bring themselves to drink blood , or maybe because of something else). Eventually , only one remained unnafected.

The reaver bearer was apparently sustained by his ownership of the blade. His wings , proudly displayed and not burned by dark forces , his strength and divinity apparently still standing. The reaver bearer has an aura , just like the circle members in the saraphan stronghold. His hair type and body stature looks just like Janos Audron , last of the ancients and owner of the blade.

Thus I believe by being the guardian of the Blood Devouring blade , Janos was spared from the horrible fate of his brothers.

I also believe he was the one that spawned the vampires of nosgoth , transmittting his powers to humans in order to perpetuate his race , or rather , not to let the hylden win

27th Oct 2003, 03:07
it seems to me that the reaver sustains this antient (sp), in the same fashion it will later sustain raziel in soul reaver1, that once at full strength, if he's not attacked, the bloodlust will not overcome him.

by the way, can someone explain to me what the blood reaver and soul reaver actually are, are they spells, forms of the sword, or completely different weapons? because in SR1, kain apparently weilds a SOUL reaver, not blood or whatever.

27th Oct 2003, 03:39
or perhaps

Janos rises from the dead in whichever fashion you want ( revenant - puts his heart back in - comes back from the demon deminsion), takes the blood reaver from Raziel and goes back in time and curses the other ancients. Not sure exactly how that'd work, but it would fit the mural. Janos type figure holding the sword over the other ancients. Just food for thought.

Kain The Ancient
27th Oct 2003, 03:54
The Blood Reaver is the original sword created by the Ancients. It was designed to drain the blood of I'ts victims. The blade was possessed by Janos Audron , stolen By Saraphan Raziel and recovered By Wraith Raziel . It is that blade Kain will use in Defiance.

The Soul Reaver is the Blood Reaver , but with Raziel's soul sucked in it , giving the blade the ability to devour souls. It was originally created after Raziel had killed Saraphan Raziel , at that point in time the blade was destined to turn on Raziel and to suck his soul. But Kain stopped that particular destiny , so the creation of the soul reaver is postponed for now (it will still happen , but not at that moment).Kain possession of the Soul Reaver happenned in Blood Omen , when he found the blade in Avernus cathedral. He kept the blade all these years , and had it in Soul Reaver 1.

The wraith blade is a spiritual representation of the soul trapped inside the blade : Raziel. When Kain struck Raziel with the Soul Reaver in Soul Reaver 1 , the blade could not devour itself , thus it was destroyed. Raziel then fused with his soul , trapped into the blade for milleniums and corrupted and it become i'ts symbiotic weapon.

27th Oct 2003, 16:33
i belive that Janos IS the ancient hero

Never know, could be Raziel who is destined to be the savior of Nosgoth.

Camus Audron
27th Oct 2003, 23:48
You ARE right nelo, there are a LOT of inconsitances surrounding the curse, pillars and the forging of the reaver.....seems to me like each side just wants to justify itself by saying the other one was the one to attack first.

I bringed up this golden glow thing, because Janos doesnt look even similar to the revenants, his eyes dont even glow at all...while the revenants have the green glow all over their face.

I think you guys hit it with the golden ancient hero, the halo seems to indicate guardianship of the pillars in the stronghold murals, so the halo on the hero must mean he's the guardian of the reaver....Janos.It's weird that he doesnt seem to suffer bloodhunger in the mural though, because he does seem to suffer from it, as he preys on the people of uscthenim...or could that bit of preying on ustchenim be pure BS by the sarafan? maybe he once abducted Vorador in order to turn him into his succesor....and they started a might because of it...who knows?

I am still puzzled by the golden glow on the pictures, could it be that it's just significance of inmortality?

28th Oct 2003, 04:04
the helmet on the ancient holding up the reaver looks kinda lame:p

28th Oct 2003, 08:58
Nelo, what's the ancient at the bottom right doing in the pic you posted? It looks like he's already cursed to me. But the one on the left is still fine as is the one on the top. (Maybe he's just fed of that hylden?)

30th Oct 2003, 05:53
My two, old cents:


What happened to people griping about nobody using the search function?

Umah Bloodomen
30th Oct 2003, 05:56
Originally posted by darien_specter
What happened to people griping about nobody using the search function?

The fact that overbearing members were intimidating new people by doing so.

The Amazing Rando
30th Oct 2003, 17:38
Originally posted by darien_specter

What happened to people griping about nobody using the search function?

nobody ever listened anyway, so I stop wating my time. Tho I've thought about it alot, I hold my toungue so that new people don't get scared by my pointing out board features there to help in such situations. :rolleyes: Right now I'd be happy if people could at least look at the first page of threads before making the same one again.

30th Oct 2003, 18:11
Originally posted by darien_specter
My two, old cents:


What happened to people griping about nobody using the search function?

Almost everything that could possibly be discussed about this game has, at this point, been discussed to death already. (Except shiny new screenshots, but there's not much to say about those except "Wow, those new screenshots sure are shiny!") If we prohibited discussion on stuff that's been talked about before, there'd be no discussion at all.

30th Oct 2003, 19:07
Originally posted by Stephenls
Almost everything that could possibly be discussed about this game has, at this point, been discussed to death already. (Except shiny new screenshots, but there's not much to say about those except "Wow, those new screenshots sure are shiny!") If we prohibited discussion on stuff that's been talked about before, there'd be no discussion at all.

Yeah, what he said.

The Amazing Rando
30th Oct 2003, 23:25
But how much discussion actually goes on in those duplicate threads that have been brought up 1000 times before? Instead of telling them to use the search feature, the nonnew members now have to do the work for them, use the search, find the related threads, and provide the links for them. Then, if there's any response, it's usually thanks for the links with them not contributing to the already existing thread, or there will be no response at all. Hardly seems worth the trouble when you think of it like that, does it? Now if they'd just take the initiative, do the search, see the other thread, and post their comments in the already existing thread, it would save other people time (without them looking lazy-as is something that gets me angry, when they say they don't have the time/bother to do a search, or did the search but couldn't just check out a few threads for relavence if there were multiple threads found. All that implies is that you're lazy and think your time is worth more than everyone else's.), and they could contribute to an on-going discussion.

Edit: Now didn't that get a little OT from mural discussions? :p :D Back to the subject. I really think the dude in the murals is just some random ancient that died out (well, maybe a hero of the war, but no one we've heard about). I also don't think we can really count on the murals, as I'm sure they're biased by those whe drew/painted them.