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View Full Version : Another interesting movie, how AoD was originally MEANT to be



RebeL_fARmeR
24th Oct 2003, 19:58
Same as last time, go to www.tombraider.com, select the MOVIES button under the GALLERY menu at the top of the page. Select the movie "THE MAKING OF TOMB RAIDER"

<<< Note: I am not putting the game down here. :)

Have a look through and you'll notice quite a few features that were never put into the full game. I can remember things like Boaz pulling off a new move, Lara's tone of voice affecting the whole course of the game, the thing with enemies spotting other dead enemies and taking appropriate action... I can't remember any more off the top of my head, it was over 8 hours ago and my memory doesn't last that long! :confused:

I have no idea what happened with AoD, somehow it seems that they managed to fall behind schedule immensely. I mean, the game was delayed several times, many features had to be cut out, they HAD the throw the game into the shops un-finished because they were so over schedule, what went wrong?

Suppose that AoD was released a year and a half later, with every bug fixed, every feature included, every glitch removed from a thoroughly play tested control system... Man, AoD would've been immense! Just think of AoD as it is but add those missing features / fixes etc... It's a pretty good thought, my guess is that it would've been a much bigger hit.

Personally I'd have prefered it if it was still in production NOW! If necessary, of course. It's like this model I've been building of the new Toyota Celica, this morning it looked like an un-finished Celica, therefore it won't be going on display yet... by tomorrow it should be finished, then it goes on display... Why? Because it's better to hold the thing back and then present it in a finished state than to present it early in a state that people will not appreciate.
Good metaphor for AoD, think obout it!!! :D

But like I said; I'm not trying to put the game down here, I'm just trying to point out that AoD would've been MUCH better than it already is had they had enough time. Pity :(

croftmania
25th Oct 2003, 08:58
That sounds right. I hope Crystal Dynamics take their time...

In the meanwhile, there are lots of awesome TRLE levels to keep us busy!

steelmartin
25th Oct 2003, 20:29
You're right RebeL_fARmeR,

but back in June the tone was different among the fans, they wanted the game to be out, and didn't want any more delays.

I think Core found themselves in an impossible situation, the fans thought the game was finished, Eidos wanted it released to please the shareholders, but Core knew that it wasn't the game they had more or less promised us it would be. I wonder how they felt about releasing the game, with so high ambitions from the start, and then just more or less stitch it together to pass for a working game (because it is a working game despite all its flaws)?

Maybe if there had been more of a dialogue between Core/Eidos and the fans they would have made us accept a delay? Maybe Eidos was in such a bad state financially that they didn't care, and their only interest was to deliver something, anything? Maybe Core promised Eidos that they would make it within a specified time frame within certain economical constraints, but ended up spending more money and time than they were allowed to do? Somewhere something obviously went very wrong, and yes, I've read that article by a Core ex-employee - I don't think it is all that simple.

The best way for Eidos and Core to have handled it would have been to have kept an ongoing dialogue with the fan community, how the development was going etc, at least once in a while, not really promise anything like release dates, but explain why and keep that dialogue open. That kind of dialogue was non-existent in this case. Still is, I might add... suppose no one wants to take the blame.

If that is company policy, I'm afraid I don't have high hopes for how the next installment of TR will be presented to us.

/ M

Seth
26th Oct 2003, 01:02
Core stated numerous times that the game simply wasn't ready. Fans didn't listen.

Eidos was in financial trouble, they wanted to please their shareholders.

Core wanted to release the game in November 2003. Eidos wanted it out Novemeber 2001.

The Developer/Publisher/Fan relations in most situations, not just this one, seems to me to be awful across the board.

Deckard
26th Oct 2003, 12:56
A very interesting topic!

Since I bought AoD I have been wondering how the finished thing would have looked. Surely, the consistency of the story would have been even better and the gameplay would have been surely longer. There probably would have been more "motivator thingies", like secrets, and (wild guess) the improvement of Lara's abilities would have been more logical. Stealth moves would have actually made sense. Don't get me started about the inexisting AI! But I really enjoyed the game. Great story! Great moves (of Lara)! Great graphics! Dialogues! And much more ...

I can't tell how CD is going to handle TR - I guess nobody can - but what really scares and angers me is that they declare to start from zero. No continuation of this story, which imo is one of AoD's strong points. Graphics engine taken from LoK - not exactly a new one, isn't it - and "adapted" to TR. Due to all that, the next TR won't be ready before 2005 :mad: . An unnecessary waste of time, since TR's graphics really are o.k.!

Again, imo: if there is something Eidos should learn from this experience, it is that they should dramatically improve their communication with customers. As many others I would have been glad to wait until November/December for AoD. I seriously doubt that AoD has been released early in order to meet customer's expectations. In other forums I visit, representatives of the developer and/or publisher are present, clearly identified as such (e.g. BloodRayne forum :) ), and dialog with the people who play their games! Too late now ... or ... well, hopefully not!

steelmartin
27th Oct 2003, 00:25
While I'm at it,

small things that make me wonder: at www.tombraider.com there is no support link, no link to patches under downloads, no pc-specs for the game. And at the support pages, you get somewhat different information depending on which country you visit (none at all right now at the US site). And this 'support' amazed me:'Q: Does my graphics card support T&L? A: We don't know. Depends on your graphics card' - coming from the support for a company whose business mainly is 3d-games... - they could have general basic information like that stored in a database, easily linkable to for all games. Sometimes I feel that Eidos lacks, or can't benefit from, the professional experience they should have coming from years and years of releasing games.:(

There is no doubt that TR:AOD would have been a much better game had it been released next month, to add to your lists, Deckard and RebeL_fARmeR: Kurtis might have been able to use his weapon, the maps might have been used, not just items in the inventory, the controls had surely been better tuned, the look-function could have been made invertable for those who wanted it configured like that (=me), and maybe overall a more fundamentally darker, sinister tone to the game, which I got the impression (after watching 'The Making of Tombraider') Core wanted it to have. I would have liked that! :)

/ M

Kanji
27th Oct 2003, 01:08
www.tombraider.com is the official site, right? Yet there are screen shots from the game... that aren't in the game??? I know they cut a lot out, but they might at least have the decency to remove these images from the official site. And the whole "making of" bit, yes, it would have been nice to have the completed game, but since we didn't, I think the official site should remove these parts so as not to confuse potential purchasers.

I did like the game though... but it could have been great. :(

Cleber
27th Oct 2003, 02:18
I am sorry about me being late to know about this... but... What did you say? That Crystal Dynamics is going to redo all the game from the bottom?

Why?

So this game wouldn't ever have an end???
If yes, I CAN'T BELIEVE IT!
This story is far too good to be thrown away.

Thanx.

steelmartin
27th Oct 2003, 10:46
Hi Kanji!

I can't resist asking you if you've read George Orwells' 1984... ;)

/ M

RebeL_fARmeR
27th Oct 2003, 22:12
Hmm, starting the TR story all over again? That could be one of many different possibilities. I want dinosours! :D
It's been a long time since AoD was relased, in that time we've been offered just one patch, which apparently doesn't do THAT much. I think that if we all sit here waiting for a massive patch to fix graphics, controls, AI, collision detection and all the other necessities then we're going to be waiting a LONG time. Why would they make that patch? We bought the game already! To create a patch of THAT size it'd take a long time indeed and seeing as such a patch would be free to download to people who had already purchased the game, they'd just be wasting their time. Lots of precious hours will be consumed, the end result carries no profits... Ain't gonna happen, I'm afraid. :( Believe me, Eidos would just like to bury AoD now and pretend it didn't happen, they know how much negative criticism it gained and it's too late to fix it now.

Stupid schedules! I HATE 'EM!!! Look what they did! :(:(:(

My toes are cold, I finished that model, it looks great. I'm going to bed... and maybe watch the X-Files which I didn't see on Sunday!

Cheerio

Deckard
27th Oct 2003, 23:42
Re-reading my post I noticed I that I wrote about CD "declaring" ... obviously my wording is ill chosen :o - sorry. In full conformity to the past, nobody "declared" nothing, and even less has been explained :rolleyes: .

As usual, the only thing we get are rumours, e.g. about Eidos considering to license AoD's Level Editor. This imo indicates that AoD's graphic engine won't be used for TR7. Which is logical - CD should really prefer to use something they are familiar with.

And it would really be a burden to CD to stay in AoD's track - to nurse somebody else's offspring ... I don't think it is impossible, but I think starting something "new" which is "yours" is easier. Hmmm - the more I think about it, the more I see that CD's position is not that easy ...

You are right RF, AoD will remain "unfinished" - nobody will patch it or complete the missing levels and functions, there simply is no money in that and nobody works for glory alone :( . The only way to fix it, is to use our imagination - think about the number of different versions that can be created that way :D . A shame we can't upload them for others to evaluate .

Cleber
28th Oct 2003, 01:05
How did you manage to go to a Graphics Design school?
How did you pay for it?

I am curious for I am a computer scientist and I am willing to go for Graphics Design.

IF ANYONE KNOWS ABOUT THIS... CAN ANYBODY HELP ME???

I really appreciate it.

steelmartin
28th Oct 2003, 02:22
You're right Deckard,

there's no use in hoping for a white Christmas! :) (= snow in Prague on the pc - Core doesn't exist anymore, it's just a shell, who would do it?)

But RF, one patch? There are three patches, or maybe two with a twist, combined in pairs like this:

v42+v49 (recording of demos possible)
v42+v52 (no recording of demos possible)

Go here: v42, v49, v52 and TR:AOD CU (http://www.tombraiderchronicles.com/tng/updates.html)

/ M

RebeL_fARmeR
30th Oct 2003, 19:12
Hmm, so there isn't just one patch!
TRC.com won't load. I tried clicking your link and going to the site's home page, nothing happens. I'll try again tomorrow.

Hopefully they're actually worthwhile patches...

Boaz_kurtis
27th Dec 2003, 11:49
perhaps if they might fix AOD up they way it was supposed to be and released it with a much anticipated TR7... would it be reasonalbe and fair? or out of the question....?

*wonders