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View Full Version : i hope things like this from the old deusex are not in this new one.



super...
22nd Oct 2003, 21:55
Do you guys remember that one point in the first DuesEx when you’re going back to Battery Park and the Günter is waiting for with a small army of solders, small bots, and huge bots? Well being the nut I am I killed ever last one of those dang men, bots, and disabled the huge bots, but you know who I could not kill (even though I had the ammo to) that dang Günter! I put so many rounds of ammo in that guy and he never even flinched! And I was not using any cheats ether! So even if they drop a bunch of the stuff I liked (buying skill levels, inventory/ammo management) I will be really happy if I can get away with using my hard core skills and actually get rewarded for it. Did any of you guys destroy everything at Battery Park as well? Or was I the only one who thought of trying to not get captured.

Cyzada
22nd Oct 2003, 22:01
I tried but it soon became blatantly obvious that Gunther was invincible. I dont see anything wrong with the script, maybe a special cutscene could have been added where some agent comes out of the shadows and blackjacks Denton if he starts to get the upper hand on Gunther rather then simply making Gunther invicible.

Quillan
22nd Oct 2003, 22:36
I think I agree with Cyzada there. I just surrendered at that point, figuring that it was designed that way, but I too would prefer you to be able to kill (or at least seriously wound Gunther) then have it go to a cutscene where you get taken out by drugged darts/blackjack/concussion grenades etc. instead of just facing an unkillable foe.

AlteredGlyph
23rd Oct 2003, 00:12
Yeah, I agree. There are NO unkillable characters in DX2, thank goodness, although there are some behind unbreakable glass, and some have like 10000 hitpoints, so even though you CAN kill them, it's just really hard.

super...
23rd Oct 2003, 00:20
I don’t want this next game to tell me that i failed at something (not checking for darts/blackjack/concussion) when there is no way of succeeding I want to go down fighting or do the impossible. Hopefully do the impossible.

Tbone
23rd Oct 2003, 00:30
Originally posted by super...
...when there is no way of succeeding I want to go down fighting or do the impossible. Hopefully do the impossible. Yeah, why just take a bullet in the chest like a pansy when you could light yourself on fire, swallow a LAM and then run around screaming like a banshee, setting men, women, and children, and terrorists alike on fire before throwing yourself onto a stack of TNT crates just as the timer runs out?.....

Uh, did I say that out loud?

super...
23rd Oct 2003, 00:46
lol
i like your humor

Random
23rd Oct 2003, 01:30
There are no forced failures in DX:IW. Ion are big on letting players author their own experiences, so they won't push you into one linear situation this time. You won't be forced to join the terrorists this time, for example.

super...
23rd Oct 2003, 02:33
but how about just simply NOT joining a faction? can a be a vigalanty JC? i would really like that. if not i'm ok with it as is

Lawnboy360
23rd Oct 2003, 12:51
That's possible AFAIK.

Random
23rd Oct 2003, 13:56
I'm pretty sure you'll have to side with a faction at all times, but you can choose which one. How else will you receive goals to accomplish?

Cyzada
23rd Oct 2003, 14:35
Well Alex could simply give himself objectives via scenes were he thinks about what to do next and such.

Or you could just make like Fallout and kill everything.

Random
23rd Oct 2003, 15:00
Originally posted by Cyzada
Well Alex could simply give himself objectives via scenes were he thinks about what to do next and such.


It's still not really freeform that way, though. You still have to accomplish goals the designers have set for you.

Cyzada
23rd Oct 2003, 15:18
Yeah thats what i meant. The designers could give Alex goals but do it in such a way that in the context of the game's story, Alex is simply deciding what to do next.

Le`Sauveur`De`Ces`Dames
23rd Oct 2003, 16:19
hmm I think it would be too hard to do : I don't see how you could logically have Alex choose alone his/her goals : if you don't join a faction, it means nobody gives you your orders (ok, your advices). that means the player is free to do whatever he wants. that also means the programmer must find a way to make every move you make fit in the story. or Alex could suddenly think "OK, I could do this" which wouldn't be very realistic. or you can find mission by talking to NPCs. but in that case, you couldn't go really far : people in the street usually don't know a lot about wold conspiracies, or what is going on. to have a more complete view, (which is in my opinion necessary to choose your goals), you must have a link to an organisation which is important enough to have a part to play in the plot. or to several

for example, it is very unlikely that me, or any of you (ok there may be exceptions) have an active part in a world conspiracy or hidden event. Except if you use more than 2 critical words in one post (Echelon is still listening), it is unlikely any secret service will come and look into your private life (if you live in a democracy, that is. if not, you are still treated like any other civilian, so my point remains true).

so if you want the plot to progress, you need at least to have contacts with an organisation. and for them to trust you, you have to take your order and comply to their policy, at least for the beginning. nothing forces you to stay with them.

Coyote
23rd Oct 2003, 16:29
Super.. wrote: "Did any of you guys destroy everything at Battery Park as well? Or was I the only one who thought of trying to not get captured"

Yeah, I replayed the h@ll out of it. I'd go way back with saves to retain camo/armor/ammo/diff weapons etc. I finally got to where I killed everything there-except Gunther (la putin machine). Eventially, I figuried out no way to kill Gunther and avoid prison-so went along

Cyzada
23rd Oct 2003, 16:38
Lots of other games have stories in which the player does not belong to a particular faction, yet realistically procedes. Usually it involves some spark which allows the player to keep following "leads" (which he gets from material clues and non-aligned NPCs like a note on the body of a dead assassin or data on a computer and so on until he gets "to the bottom of it". I would think that the way it would be designed is that over the course of the game a few former non-aligned people become "involved" and these people along with Alex coelesce into what amounts to a 5th faction lead by Alex (in otherwords instead of Alex aligning himself with a faction, Alex in essence creates one)

Yeah thats true but Alex is a nano-agent; One of very few known to exist, a weapon of the very world conspiracies that you are referring to. That places him a few cuts above your average citizen. While its true that most people woudn't know anything about world conspiracy, it is entirely possible that there could be that one person in a bar somewhere to point Alex in the right direction initially and the rest as they say would be history.

oherror
23rd Oct 2003, 17:26
Originally posted by Cyzada
Lots of other games have stories in which the player does not belong to a particular faction.

i agree, but i came up with a way that alex could not be part of a faction and still do quest and such. He/She could be a merc that uses his/her augs to do quests for the highest bidder. ie diffrent factions. i liked how this was done in diffrent games

Le`Sauveur`De`Ces`Dames
24th Oct 2003, 08:11
Lots of other games have stories in which the player does not belong to a particular faction, yet realistically procedes. Usually it involves some spark which allows the player to keep following "leads" (which he gets from material clues and non-aligned NPCs like a note on the body of a dead assassin or data on a computer and so on until he gets "to the bottom of it". I would think that the way it would be designed is that over the course of the game a few former non-aligned people become "involved" and these people along with Alex coelesce into what amounts to a 5th faction lead by Alex (in otherwords instead of Alex aligning himself with a faction, Alex in essence creates one)

the problem is, you just can't get in a world conspiracy if you are not concerned by it :
why would you search the body of an assassin for clues unless he came to kill you? and in that case, WHY would have he been sent to kill you (after all, you did nothing wrong)
or he could have come after someone you know. in that case this someone is the lead to the conspiracy.
and if you want to go "to the bottom of things", against a world organisation, you better have some backup (meaning : another world organisation). the NPCs in the street DON'T know anything about what is going on in the conspiracies between world organisations, unless they are part of it, and at a high rank. (the regular soldier isn't usually told of the organisation's long term policy).

for oherror, being a merc is, I believe, one of the possibilities you have to play the game : after all, Warren Spector has said in aninterview you can change factions during the game. you can just go each time to the highest bidder. but each time you are still under the orders of a faction