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ed_ftp
19th Oct 2003, 02:57
I've heard the game continues 20 years after deus ex ended.

I've also heard that all three endings were combined, i.e.,

jc merged with helios, destroyed all communications, then teamed up with illuminati

this seems really far-fetched and unrealistic.

Can someone tell me exactly which ending dx2 continues from (if at all? or did the game developer not bother to link a particular ending's characteristics to the new game?)

Mythrander101
19th Oct 2003, 03:26
I don't know your answer, but I think it would have been cool if they gave you a choice at the beginning. For Example: When the game starts, you have to pick which ending you chose in the origional DE. Your new char/game would start out a little different, but all three choices would eventually merge with each other.

Mythrander101

gareis
19th Oct 2003, 04:07
If the Helios ending is chosen, what possibility is there for conflict? Only if the Morpheus AI, or some other AI project, manages to segment a portion of the Aquinas Protocol in order to give the conspirators some privacy. And that wouldn't make sense with the talk of Tarsus' enemies being ineffectual before.

If the game starts from the perspective of Tong's Dark Age, then Alex Denton, cloned at Area 51, would have died.

So the Illuminati ending is the only viable option. Helios still serves them, I suspect.

`gareis^\

Random
19th Oct 2003, 05:04
ed_ftp, you heard right: the endings were merged into one fictional ending. So that means JC merged with Helios, killed Bob Page, and destroyed the world's communications systems, which were routed through Area 51.

It seems like the most reasonable thing to do, since no one will be annoyed that their choice was ignored.

gareis
19th Oct 2003, 20:08
How is that possible? To a large extent, Helios *was* the Aquinas Hub. Also, the AI wouldn't want to plunge the world into a second Dark Age, which it would by destroying all communications of a significant range. Or is it that when Helios and JC merged, the AI was no longer dependent on hardware other than JC's mind? Still, a nasty thing to do, knocking out communications.

Then again, he need not have destroyed the Aquinas Hub immediately. After killing Page and merging with the AI, he could have rerouted the communications through other areas and eliminated the central control. Did he hide his AI counterpart from the rest of the Illuminati?
:confused: :cool:

cball05
19th Oct 2003, 20:56
I'm assuming that your questions will be the same ones Alex will grapple with in the game, and the reason that the devs have not revealed the complete storyline is that part of the DX2 story is discovering how the first one ended.

Machinax
19th Oct 2003, 21:13
What cball said. I'm looking forward to how the answers are better and fully explained in IW, and what effects they had on the world.

What would be ultra-cool was if IW could be tailored to fit each possible original ending; i.e., if you chose the Illuminati ending, the whole world of IW would be based on that, if you chose the Dark Age ending, the whole gameworld of IW would be based on that, and likewise for the Helios ending. Asking a bit too much, maybe, but I'm very interested to see how things play out in IW.

44 days.

Mythrander101
19th Oct 2003, 21:29
Machinax: I had the same thought...

That would be alot of work though, three different games to make, yikes!

Mythrander101

Le`Sauveur`De`Ces`Dames
20th Oct 2003, 09:26
that's funny, we had a big thread just about that a few months ago

"nihil novi sub sole"

(or for non latine speakers : "nothing new under the sun")

Dr Strangelove
20th Oct 2003, 19:49
I still don't see how the Helios ending can go in with anything else - Helios/JC effectively became a God being, didn't they? That should effectively stop any competition forever. The other two can kinda merge, though.

I think it will be quite interesting to see JC's organisation, as with all the people you talked to in the first game you could have quite a powerbase:

The triads
NSF
Silhouette
Remnants of the Illuminati
X-51

(did I forget anyone? probably)

ed_ftp
21st Oct 2003, 01:15
mj 12.

mole people.

gareis
21st Oct 2003, 01:28
Majestic 12, maybe. He did a lot of damage to the main hierarchy, but that might be for the best. The mole people? No. Not a chance. They're not unified, they're not powerful, and they're not dependent on nanotech (which is, I think, an important point). Helios Denton can manage quite well without disturbing them, and they would not add to his power. At least, no more than would my hometown, which is more of a hick town than Hicksville.

`gareis^\

auric
21st Oct 2003, 05:31
As for JC joining with Helios, I think I know why he can barely do much. Its because he destroyed the comunications, the main power of Helios is gone, the ability to control things via the internet.

:)

Dr Strangelove
21st Oct 2003, 15:47
That might be right... I wonder if Helios would try to stop him destroying the communications hub?

auric
21st Oct 2003, 15:57
I wonder if JC is somehow suffering in his head. or who is the controller of his body?

Helios or JC. These are things I doupt even bothered to be entered in the game, maybe or maybe not.

Its more likely theres no struggle but either 1 or both in control or something else, a new entity.

Esquire
21st Oct 2003, 16:16
Ok, i replayed da end videos of Deus Ex to find that if i choose to follow Tracer Tong's instructions, i get the ending with the Deus Ex theme tune. Whereas the other two endings have different music. This makes me think that this was the right choice to make. So i think that it will follow the "blowing up A51" ending.

Esquire
21st Oct 2003, 16:38
(dont b scared by how much i typed!) apparently "the events of the first deus ex game plunged the world into chaos". Ok, thinking of that only makes me think that DXIW will of followed the tracer tong choice.

i think this because if you joined Helios, there was order, i quote paul denton, "helios has ordered troops to drop their weapons, and traffic is flowing again. people arent resisting." something like that he said. and that was before you join with helios, on your way into section4 i think.

if u joined with the illuminati, there wouldnt of been too much of a change to the world because the illuminati rules with "an invisible hand", so i cant see that leading to an apocolypse or chaos.

but then again, there's no way they would make the game follow only one ending. that wouldn't be fair on us, the gamers. What would of been the point in creating 3 seperate endings in the original game and then make 1 start to the sequel? if they merge the endings somehow, it wont b as bad, but if DXIW follows on from only one of the endings i wont b happy.

but then again again, i'll bet that something else happened after you made your last decision in DX1, something that no matter what decision you made in DX1, had a chaotic effect in DX2

Catman
21st Oct 2003, 16:43
My pet theory (with no basis in reality): If you didn't choose the Tong ending, he sent in a Triad squad to do the job.

Dr Strangelove
21st Oct 2003, 16:46
Heh, probably

gareis
21st Oct 2003, 22:02
And if you didn't choose the Tong ending, you probably have the power (four UC's pumping out bots, greasels, karkians, and greys) to beat off any attack. The entire triad wouldn't be sufficient to get through that if you have only an hour to prepare.

Quillan
22nd Oct 2003, 01:17
They said they combined all three endings. So perhaps it went something like: JC felt merging with Helios was the best option, but in case things went wrong, he destroyed Area 51 (and the Aquinas hub with it) to limit the damage that would be caused if Helios gained full control. Bob Page would have died along with it, freeing the Illuminati to regain their former influence, but that would have been hampered as well with the loss of the communications hub. You're right about one thing; the JC/Helios combination would be about as close to a god as technology could get, but if the communications are broken, his influence is limited to a local area.

brnsnb02
22nd Oct 2003, 04:13
Originally posted by gareis


If the game starts from the perspective of Tong's Dark Age, then Alex Denton, cloned at Area 51, would have died.

`gareis^\


If you play the game during the Bob Page "final" area in sector 4, do this: Look really close at the different holding tanks of the clones. If you do, you will realize that the Alex D. holding tank is a hologram! Try this: Approach any of the tanks besides that of Alex D. and try to strike them with your DTS. When you do, you will notice that these tanks behave as you would expect: the normal clanging/scratching noises made as you strike most other similar objects. Now approach Alex D.'s tank. Try to strike it as you did the others. Notice anything? Maybe that you are unable to strike it at all...maybe that no noises are made. Further, try to jump into the tank where Alex D. is floating. Notice anything? Maybe that you are able to jump through the tank area (blue area). If you try to jump through any of the other tanks, you are undoubtedly unable to do so. My point is this: I don't now if this is a programming bug or some glitch, but if it is not, then the most reliable answer I can come up with is that the Alex D. holding tank is a hologram and he has been located somewhere else all along! Pretty interesting...

Dr Strangelove
22nd Oct 2003, 06:40
JC felt merging with Helios was the best option, but in case things went wrong, he destroyed Area 51

I think if area 51 is destroyed, then Helios would be too. That's why I find it so hard to see the Helios ending combining with any others, really

auric
22nd Oct 2003, 07:52
Its more likely he joined first then destroyed area 51 as gently as he can. without the big boom way.

Machinax
22nd Oct 2003, 16:31
The question is, if JC merged with Helios, how did he enact the Tong ending and destroy Area 51? Did he, say, merge with Helios and then shut down all global communications, leaving Area 51 physically untouched? But then, if he did merge with Helios, why is he MIA when DX:IW starts? Theoretically, he should still be in the merging chamber in the Aquinas Hub in Area 51.

Unless, of course, he can carry Helios around like a PDA or something.

Bob Page: Helios....no....don't leave me...
JC/Helios: Goodbye, Mr. Page.
Bob Page: NOOOOOOOO! At least keep me company!
JC/Helios: As you command.
[JC/Helios unleash the spider-bots on Page]

Cyzada
22nd Oct 2003, 19:20
I would think that he destroyed Area 51 killing Bob Page (and along with it, global communications) Merged with Helios in order to prevent himself from being destroyed in the blast (think Lawnmower Man) and then over the course of years became an influential member (perhaps even the leader) of the new illuminati who needed his aid to build a new communications network. largely due to his aid this organization developed into a very influential force over the course of years. (of course not nearly as influential as Majestic 12 was)

Tbone
22nd Oct 2003, 20:28
Look out! Incoming long post! :p

I think Ion Storm got caught in a trap of their own making. When they wrote the ending for DX1, I don't think they had sequels in mind. I'ver heard developers from several of the Ion Storm teams comment that nobody knew that DX1 was going to be such a big hit. Not that they expected to fail, either, but I don't think they originally thought there would be so much demand for a sequel. Based on the comments I've seen in various interviews, I do feel fairly confident that they tried to create an amalgamated ending for DX1 to use as a starting point for DX2. That's not an easy thing to do, and it's probably going to require a little stretching and grasping, but that's OK. If they really want to do a sequel, they only have 3 options, really.

1) Pick one ending and run with it. It sounds like they've rejected this one because of the devotion to non-linearity. Still, that would be the easiest thing to do.

2) They can leave the ending of DX1 unresolved. The player never really finds out which choice was made because it just so turns out that any of the choices would have lead to the same consequences of a global dark age, etc. That's a subtle difference from creating a true amalgamation where all 3 choices were made, but if you think about it, it would be much easier to write. But, given that JC definitely has a role to play in DX2, the artifice would be pretty noticble as he could never have clearly defined motives and couldn't really speak about what happened at Area 51.

3) They can choose all three endings. This is definitely the hardest way to go, but that's not to say that it's impossible. I've been trying to figure out how they might do that in way that didn't seem too far-fetched. Of the three endings, both Tong's ending and the Helios ending seemed thematically appropriate to me. The Helios ending plays to the "god from a machine" theme, while Tong's ending adheres more closely to the theme of small, localized government, state's rights, etc. that were a major undercurrent throughout the game (at least in my mind). The Illuminati ending seems to be the odd-man-out, to me. Of course I did it once just to see all the endings, but it always seemed like betrayal of the rest of the game to me. I'm curious how they worked that one in to the other two.

Here would be my theory:
Let's assume for a moment that JC decides to merge with Helios. There could be many reasons for this. For one thing, Helios was almost human in the end. When Icarus and Daedalus merged, Helios was no longer a one-dimensional computer personality, but a complex entity with an Id and Superego, so to speak. He was like a mirror image of JC - a machine that was almost human vs. a human that was almost a machine. JC might have pitied him, perhaps even identified with him. And in rejecting the power-mongering Page as his human host, perhaps Helios earned just enough trust that JC didn't want to destroy him. And as the Helios ending implied, JC may have felt a compulsion to merge with Helios because that's what he was made to do.

At the same time, he couldn't exactly trust Helios, either. I really like Quillan's thinking here: In the event that he decides to merge with Helios, he's going to safeguard himself. He decides to also destroy the Aquinas hub so that if Helios isn't what he thinks, and he can't control it, the damage is minimized. For his part, Helios might not have objected too much, either. Towards the end of DX1, he seems driven by a need to really understand what it means to be human, which was his motive for rejecting Page. Page didn't have the balance of humanity that Helios required for a full understanding. If he merged with JC, Helios wouldn't need the Aquinas hub anymore, because he wouldn't really be an AI anymore. There's almost something messianic about it, isn't there? Like God giving up omniscience/omnipotence to become a man. At any rate, merging the Tong and Helios endings in a believable way doesn't seem to be an insurmountable task.

The tough part is the Illuminati ending. It doesn't really seem to mesh very nicely with the others. But after thinking about it for a good long while, I did think of at least one way that it could be done. Just as JC hedged the Helios bet with destroying the Aquinas hub, he may have hedged *that* bet with the Illuminati. If you recall, JC sounded pretty disturbed by the idea of destroying global communication and plunging the world into a new dark age. The Illuminati might be the only ones with the ability to steer the world out of darkness if it came to that. He can't rely on Tong, because Tong *wanted* the dark age, and he might not be willing to do what it would take to steer humanity in the "right" direction. On top of that, it could be the old adage - keep your friends close and your enemies closer. With the Aquinas hub out of commision, JC-lios can't be sure what the Illuminati are schemeing behind the veil of global chaos. Rather than just tossing caution to the wind and hoping that Everett gives up, he might want to stay close to the Illuminati and try to keep them in check. After all, having merging with Helios, he'd be way smarter than Everett. And the Illuminati would need JC more than he would need them, so that political advantage would be his. He might just be able to manipulate the manipulators, keeping them weakened so that they don't become another MJ-12. Finally, if JC were having trouble controlling Helios, Everett might be the only one who could help him. Everett designed Daedalus, and Icarus was really just a modification of that. Moreover, Everett was the one who caused the merger of the two in the first place. JC never did figure out why Everett wanted that to happen. Everett may have been banking that he would be able to control Helios and thus come out on top no matter who won.

That leaves the loose end of Alex. I don't think there's a lot of doubt that Alex is Alex Denton, the latest in the Denton series of nano-tolerating human hosts. But if Area 51 is destroyed, how does Alex survive? There's a lot of possibilities - maybe JC rescued him/her on the way out of Area 51. A bit unlikely, since we have footage in the original game of JC running out of Area 51, but a small continuity error isn't beyond possibility. I mean, Paul himself is a much bigger error since he might have been miraculously ressurected depending on how you played the game. A more likely option might be that Area 51 wasn't completely destroyed by the explosion. This is, after all, a highly advanced military base that was designed to contain twin fusion reactors. You'd think that they might have installed some damage control systems so that not everything would be destroyed in the event of a melt-down/explosion. Some recent screen shots appear to show the chamber area of Area 51 (looking all gloomy and abandoned), so that seems likely. Alex could then awaken on his/her own at some later time, or be rescued by someone who knew about the Denton project.

That begs the question of who's behind Tarsus in the first place. Interestingly enough, Tarsus is an ancient city (I think it's called Tarsous or something like that now) that's mentioned in the Bible. It was one of the major centers of learning for the ancient world, not entirely unlike Alexandria. At first, that makes me think that either the Illuminati or some MJ-12 remnant is responsible for his awakening and for his enrollment in Tarsus. Remember all that stuff about Tyre and Sidon in the MJ-12 datapads at the Templar cathedral? Tyre and Sidon were also cities of Biblical mention. Everett also noted that MJ-12 used the names of angels for their security clearance, and hinted that they were secular, unlike the Illuminati (which is interesting in and of itself). A name like "Tarsus" could fit the M.O. of either organization.

But just to screw with your head even more, Tarsus was the home city of the apostle Paul. So perhaps Tarsus was the creation of Paul and Tong. Maybe JC went down the "dark side" and Paul and Tong conspired to awaken Alex and train him as the only weapon that might stand against JC. Who knows? I enjoy speculating about it as much as (if not more than) I'll enjoy finding out how they actually resolved it.

gareis
22nd Oct 2003, 21:11
Interesting theory. JC would have created a delay of several minutes, perhaps longer, between starting the reactors and having the place blow up; perhaps JClios rescued the three clones during the delay. After all, some more enhanced humans able to accept nanotech would be useful to him, and the human component wouldn't want to kill them.

Or with the Paul/Tong theory, perhaps Tong found another clone on the Denton line elsewhere and mistook him for Alex. Not the most exciting explanation, I know, but plausable.

Was anyone else reminded of Alexis, holy man of God, the saint? He was a man (or perhaps just a story) who lived in Rome sometime during the first three centuries AD. When he turned seventeen, he got engaged, but he skipped out on his wedding night to beg before a church in Syria. After seventeen years of this, a priest received a vision that Alexis was a saint and went to honor him, but Alexis ran away, back to Rome, and lived as the most wretched of beggars in his own parents' house. The servants despised him, beat him, spat in his food, and basically treated him like a three-legged cur. Seventeen years later, he died and was revered as a saint.

If this was used as a model for Alex Denton, I wonder if any victory will result in a happy ending.

darklightning
23rd Oct 2003, 00:40
How exactly the merge the endings into one, I cannot speculate, though I'm willing to bet that it will become clear later and it will make sense. I just thought I'd let you all know that DXIW is supposed to have anywhere from 4-6 endings... so... ;) You can imagine the arguments that will appear should a third game surface in a few years.

auric
23rd Oct 2003, 03:44
Originally posted by Tbone
Look out! Incoming long post! :p
That leaves the loose end of Alex. I don't think there's a lot of doubt that Alex is Alex Denton, the latest in the Denton series of nano-tolerating human hosts. But if Area 51 is destroyed, how does Alex survive? There's a lot of possibilities - maybe JC rescued him/her on the way out of Area 51. A bit unlikely, since we have footage in the original game of JC running out of Area 51,

Very interesting theory, I myself like to speculate & try to rationalise things, which I do on Star Trek on its many series & movies. Its quite a challenge to combine them all with other people critisicing it being not a continuity, "when it is".

Ok, about the Alex thing, yes we saw JC running of, but we do have to keep in mind, not everything shown is what we get. I do recall some shows showing something but in the end ignored that thing & created another thing. If u get what I mean ;)

So what I mean is, JC could have rescued Alex or Area 51 could not be destroyed entirely by the fusion reactors. The footage we see is just a glimpse of what's happening, or what JC want us to think ;)

If he did rescued Alex, he wouldn't want to tell the Illuminati or anyone else, he had to keep it a secret or something.
[Reason of rescue, may be because he's a Denton. Brothers have to fend for oneanother] :)

Or in the case of Area 51 not being destroyed totally, so Alex Denton's Cell could be unharmed or damaged just enough for him to wake up earlier then expected, so he chose a form [male/female] unconsciously & lived on by himself & searching for truth later.

What do u think?

San_Holo
23rd Oct 2003, 03:51
This is how I see it. We know that they chose all 3 endings, BUT the game is set 20 years in the future. This gives them time to change things, mold things, and burry things in the "past".

Had the game been set only 1 or 3 years after the events of the first game, then a definite story would have to be set, but setting the game 20 years ahead, you can make the events of the past (especially if there was a huge blackout) as mearly lost historic knowledge, even somewhat of a legend.

"The day the earth went dark, the shadows strengthened their grip and a god was born"

By fulfilling all 3 endings, all they really have to do if fulfill 3 things.
1) JC has merged with helios
2) 20 years in the past, the world was thrust into a huge blackout
3) The illuminati took control

As well as it was done in DX1, there will be little details everywhere that will mention the past, things that happened, but I doubt you will be given a clear linear account of how all 3 events would have occured.

Why would you have a linear explanation to expain the transition from one non linear game to another?

I'm sorry for those who want one, but I doubt you'll be getting a full explanation of what transpired between DX1 & DX2.

auric
23rd Oct 2003, 04:14
No one's asking for a linear story or a full explanation [well not me that's for sure], infact almost all of us like the non-linearness. We're just giving out thoughts of how things could be, not what we want it to be.

Like some said, we can't wait to see what event the makers have decide to do for DX2's past history.

:) yeah, 20 years is a long time, I once mentioned that in a older forum. Can't recall where.

:)

Random
23rd Oct 2003, 04:15
JC and Tong both return in DX:IW, so we'll have to find out what they've been doing for the last 20 years and what their goals are now.

Mythrander101
23rd Oct 2003, 04:45
These are all very interesing! Whatever the story will be, it'll be complex and (hopefully) make sense.

Mythrander101

Machinax
23rd Oct 2003, 04:58
Tbone, that was some brilliant analysis. I especially loved the comparison between JC and Helios - a "human almost like a machine" and a "machine almost like a human." Amazing.

oceanskie
23rd Oct 2003, 09:30
instead of saying JC blew the fusion reactor and everything attached it to pieces, it is possible that the designers forego the idea of destroying the fusion reactor and instead, JC shut down the global comm system and freezing all of its activities and thus limiting communication to regions only

Cyzada
23rd Oct 2003, 14:27
Maybe JC does blow the reactor but it doesn't blow the whole facility to pieces. Only parts of it. Remember Area 51 was a very large facility and the reactors were experimental. Tracer Tong couldn't have known for certain what would happen if they overloaded. Or the Aliens might have otherwise interfered with JCs plan to destroy the facility (it was there technology and we dont know that much about them, who knows what they are capable of)

Machinax
23rd Oct 2003, 14:51
Didn't you have to kill all the grays in the area to get to the reaction containment thingies?

Le`Sauveur`De`Ces`Dames
23rd Oct 2003, 15:05
no, you can just run fast and trust your healing aug.

or make them run after you until you are far enough, and then sneak back

Esquire
23rd Oct 2003, 16:46
I'm guessing that something has happened in the 20 years between DX1 and 2 that would have produced the same outcome no matter what ending you chose in DX1. It's the only storyline i can think of that will satisfy all of the DX1 endings. and it doesnt really let us down does it? I'd ofcourse like DX2 to continue with the effect from whichever ending you chose in DX1. but if it doesnt, as long as it's got a storyline that makes sense, i wont mind. i'll be just as happy. damnit, i cant wait til DX2!
i wonder if AlexD will have a killswitch like JC and Paul did.

Cyzada
23rd Oct 2003, 16:54
Maybe JC merged with Helios and then joined the Illuminati but little did JC know, Tracer Tong didn't trust JC in this matter and had another operative (Paul Denton?) secretly tail him and insure that the Aquinis Hub was destroyed. Paul being the bleeding heart liberal that he is, saved Alex Denton when he discovered that he had a third "brother".

Esquire
23rd Oct 2003, 17:17
nah, paul told JC that he was ok wid watever decision JC made. (if paul lived to the end). damn i jus luv that game. especially the convo wid da AI in Everette's house. bak 2 da subect. i dont think it's likely they joined any of the endings. (or is it official word that they did?). I think if they did join any of the endings it would be poor... give us 3 different endings that are all the same!

Tbone
23rd Oct 2003, 17:32
Originally posted by San_Holo
Had the game been set only 1 or 3 years after the events of the first game, then a definite story would have to be set, but setting the game 20 years ahead, you can make the events of the past (especially if there was a huge blackout) as mearly lost historic knowledge, even somewhat of a legend.
...
I doubt you will be given a clear linear account of how all 3 events would have occured.

Originally posted by Esquire
I'm guessing that something has happened in the 20 years between DX1 and 2 that would have produced the same outcome no matter what ending you chose in DX1.See, that's probably what I would have done if I were them, but it sounds like they've taken the road less traveled. Supposedly, JC can be either a mentor or an adversary in DX2. If that's the case, he must have some kind of motives/agenda for you to agree with or oppose. They have a real problem with some either/or scenarios here. Either JC joined with Helios or he didn't, and it's going to be pretty obvious which it was when you speak with him for the first time. Likewise, he's either working with the Illuminati, or he isn't. Now, I'll grant that if he's working with them, it would be appropriate for him to manipulate and deceive so that his motives weren't entirely clear, but sooner or later the truth would have to come out if he were to try to persuade Alex to help him take over the world, or something.

They must be pretty confident about their ability to merge the story lines, though, since they apparently plan on having multiple endings for DX2, as well. Or maybe they just never learn =P


Originally posted by Machinax
Tbone, that was some brilliant analysis. I especially loved the comparison between JC and Helios - a "human almost like a machine" and a "machine almost like a human." Amazing.Wow, thank you. http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/embarassed.gif

Machinax
23rd Oct 2003, 18:00
Originally posted by Tbone
See, that's probably what I would have done if I were them, but it sounds like they've taken the road less traveled. Supposedly, JC can be either a mentor or an adversary in DX2. If that's the case, he must have some kind of motives/agenda for you to agree with or oppose. They have a real problem with some either/or scenarios here. Either JC joined with Helios or he didn't, and it's going to be pretty obvious which it was when you speak with him for the first time. Likewise, he's either working with the Illuminati, or he isn't.


Not only that, but the either/or as to whether or not Paul survived.

GayleSaver
23rd Oct 2003, 19:33
I think that any apparent shallowness in the publicity arises from the need to advertise; its absence killed Looking Glass in its time, and Warren Spector listened. If he is anything the man who made the first Deus Ex, I am confident he will not permit one cliché to enter the second game.

Random
23rd Oct 2003, 23:43
Originally posted by Esquire
i dont think it's likely they joined any of the endings. (or is it official word that they did?).

It's been confirmed for a while that they've come up with their own fictional ending by combining all three endings from DX. JC merged with Helios, joined the Illuminati and shut down world communications -- though whether that means he destroyed Area 51 or not is unknown, as there's a screenshot of A51 in DX:IW now. The Helios god thing shouldn't be too much of a problem because, as others have said, with world communications shut down JC/Helios won't have much power.

It's all speculation at the moment, though.

gareis
24th Oct 2003, 00:12
Originally posted by Cyzada
Or the Aliens might have otherwise interfered with JCs plan to destroy the facility (it was there technology and we dont know that much about them, who knows what they are capable of)

Aliens? You mean the Greys? Didn't you hear what that technician said? Those were made with a UC. Invented by MJ12, simple security before they came out with something as complex as the MIB. They aren't aliens at all, and that is MJ12 technology rather than alien technology. Anyway, even if they were aliens (which I greatly doubt), they weren't taught how to deal with that technology.

auric
25th Oct 2003, 07:06
Those Greys DNA are from real aliens, but these Grays are newly clones they ain't got memories of their past. Too bad.

Do any of u think we might meet the real aliens in DX:2?

or maybe part 3

in part 2 I see some different grays. but most likely clones or otherwise too.

Esquire
25th Oct 2003, 09:22
i think i read this on the website, the Greasels, Grays and Karkians have escaped cos Versalife blew up. the Greasels stayed in the city, the Karkians went into the sewers and the grays are rarely seen cos they live in the outskirts or suttin.

gareis
25th Oct 2003, 13:41
Originally posted by auric
Those Greys DNA are from real aliens, but these Grays are newly clones they ain't got memories of their past. Too bad.

The game offered no proof of that. Strictly speaking, it offered no evidence for it, either. It's just a look, a couple of special abilities, Illuminati/MJ12 tech, and some speculation. And with a UC, none of the rest would be extraordinary.

So it's possible that there are aliens, but I personally doubt it.

Esquire
25th Oct 2003, 13:51
the grays are transgenics. just like the Karkians and Greasels. The last janitor u c in DX1 near the reactors says that the grays are just monkeys. He also says that the reactors are alien technology. So it's likely they mixed monkeys with the original aliens to make the grays. dont kno why they would do this. maybe the original aliens couldnt live on earth.

Random
25th Oct 2003, 13:54
I was under the impression that the greys are mutated monkeys. They're called transgenics in most of the fiction, which implies that people have been messing with the DNA of various animal species. That's why the greasels are chicken-like, I guess: they are.

Dr Strangelove
25th Oct 2003, 14:01
The technician who said that the grays were mutated monkeys actually said he reckoned that the antimatter reactors probably weren't alien technology, but he didn't really know. I don't think the game ever tells you for absolutely certain whether or not there really were any aliens, but I suspect that there weren't.

gareis
25th Oct 2003, 16:20
Something just occurred to me regarding Alex Denton and the clone in Area51.

The clone appeared to be between seventeen and twenty-five years of age, full-grown but not aged. Furthermore, it isn't active; it's in a vegetative state at best. Yet twenty years later, we have Alex Denton, who is about twenty years old--no older than the clone. S/he was raised to adulthood by Tarsus Academy, correct? Therefore, Alex Denton must be a different clone, conceived in a more normal fashion, or maybe the child of one of the Dentons (perhaps JC's by Sandra Renton?)

And Alex Jacobson was just so helpful and supportive during the pregnancy that they decided to name the baby after him :D

God From Machine
25th Oct 2003, 16:35
I didn't ever really think that the greys were real aliens, just a rummor started by the techs cause mj12 tells them nothing about the technology that they use. But what i found interesting is that on the site it says the greys prefer to stay away from human contact and live outside of the cities, could this mean they are pretty intelligent and have their own culture or society. Now that would be cool, visiting an entire village of greys, although one grey in DX1 sneaking up behind me scared the s**t out of me so a whole town may not go over to well.:(

svashtar
25th Oct 2003, 17:23
Originally posted by gareis
Something just occurred to me regarding Alex Denton and the clone in Area51.

The clone appeared to be between seventeen and twenty-five years of age, full-grown but not aged. Furthermore, it isn't active; it's in a vegetative state at best. Yet twenty years later, we have Alex Denton, who is about twenty years old--no older than the clone. S/he was raised to adulthood by Tarsus Academy, correct? Therefore, Alex Denton must be a different clone, conceived in a more normal fashion, or maybe the child of one of the Dentons (perhaps JC's by Sandra Renton?)


either that, or Tarsus isn't being entirely truthful with young Alex about his/her origins.

AlteredGlyph
25th Oct 2003, 18:38
Originally posted by Esquire
i think i read this on the website, the Greasels, Grays and Karkians have escaped cos Versalife blew up. the Greasels stayed in the city, the Karkians went into the sewers and the grays are rarely seen cos they live in the outskirts or suttin.
Versalife didn't blow up, just the UC. And also, versalife is still around, so it still has control of the transgenics, although some of them probably escaped.

Zhanate
25th Oct 2003, 20:07
Originally posted by gareis
Something just occurred to me regarding Alex Denton and the clone in Area51.

The clone appeared to be between seventeen and twenty-five years of age, full-grown but not aged. ... Yet twenty years later, we have Alex Denton, who is about twenty years old--no older than the clone. S/he was raised to adulthood by Tarsus Academy, correct?

I wondered about tht too. But I think I read that Alex wakes up or is awakened or something like that at the start, or not long before the start, of IW. I interpreted that to mean Alex has been in suspended animation the whole time.

The other thing I wonder about: The clone at Area 51 looks very much like a young man to me.

So maybe it's not the same Alex.

Esquire
25th Oct 2003, 23:12
this is da storyline thread so am jus gonna ask wat u peoples think about this...
"....an academic distinction if her really does hav a Nanite Detonator..." - does that mean that the person who blew up Chicago trained at Tarsus Academies?
neways, as for Alex, i think dat the Alex D we saw in Area51 is the same Alex as the one in DX2. that's just cos i want it to be. but if it is the same alex. then wat about the other 2 clones in Area51. Simons' and Page's? if alex got out they mite of been too

gareis
26th Oct 2003, 01:21
Originally posted by Esquire
"....an academic distinction if her really does hav a Nanite Detonator..." - does that mean that the person who blew up Chicago trained at Tarsus Academies?
neways, as for Alex, i think dat the Alex D we saw in Area51 is the same Alex as the one in DX2. that's just cos i want it to be. but if it is the same alex. then wat about the other 2 clones in Area51. Simons' and Page's? if alex got out they mite of been too

First, the academic distinction: it's a distinction in part for Tarsus, since they must be doing what they do very well in order to gain such enemies. It's also a distinction for the enemy, since it was able to create a nanite detonator. That's not the sort of thing you just have lying around; it's a heavily simplified, rugged version of a UC: it turns everything into more nanites that do the same, producing brittle, stiff, crumbling material as a waste product.

Second, it might be the same Alex. I have a feeling that you'll have the option of learning this in the game, and further speculation is in vain.

God From Machine
26th Oct 2003, 02:21
"....an academic distinction if her really does hav a Nanite Detonator..."

I assumed that, since it was a reply to a question "are we the target"(or something allong those lines), the meaning was why would it matter if tarsus was the target as a nanite detonator would destroy the entire city anyway, including tarsus and anyone else within x kilometers. Its an acidemic destiction that if the enemy the blast was after was not tarsus it does not matter as tarsus will be destroyed just as sure as if they were the target to begin with.

Along the lines of if i blew up a city block to level, say mcdonald's, the other stores would not particularly care that i was not after them because i blew them up to. not that i have anything against mcdonald's or that i would blow one up, purely hypothetical you understand.;)

darklightning
26th Oct 2003, 04:39
Originally posted by Esquire
this is da storyline thread so am jus gonna ask wat u peoples think about this...
"....an academic distinction if her really does hav a Nanite Detonator..." - does that mean that the person who blew up Chicago trained at Tarsus Academies?

Ok, just to clear this up for everyone, the word academic in this instance has NO corrolation with the Tarsus Academy. In this case, the word "academic" means that it is theoretical or speculative. They are in doubt that the terrorist really has a nanite detonator since such a weapon is obviously not something that's easy to get.

Picasso
26th Oct 2003, 05:01
Him: He's in the city. No id yet. Unclear whether we're the target.

Her: An academic distinction if he really has a nanite detonator.

When she says "an academic distinction" she's referring to whether they are the terrorist's target, not whether the terrorist has a nanite detonator. She's saying that if he has the detonator (like they think he might), then it doesn't matter who the target is, because the whole city will be destroyed anyhow.

But you're right, it's definitely not referring to the Tarsus Academy.

Edit: Now that I see his post, God From Machine has the right idea.

Machinax
26th Oct 2003, 05:05
Originally posted by AlteredGlyph
Versalife didn't blow up, just the UC. And also, versalife is still around, so it still has control of the transgenics, although some of them probably escaped.

If you read one of the news bulletins/e-mails after the Versalife mission, you discover that MJ12 destroyed the Versalife building.

Besides, were the grays really developed at Versalife? I only recall seeing one gray carcass. Most of the other grays were at Area 51, so I always assumed they were created there.

gareis
26th Oct 2003, 05:27
Not just the greys--all the transgenics, the basic research, was probably done at Area51, though some further research took place at VersaLife facilities. Area51 technicians developed that cow variant alluded to in emails. It makes sense that they did much of the rest, as well.

darklightning
26th Oct 2003, 06:58
Originally posted by Picasso
When she says "an academic distinction" she's referring to whether they are the terrorist's target, not whether the terrorist has a nanite detonator. She's saying that if he has the detonator (like they think he might), then it doesn't matter who the target is, because the whole city will be destroyed anyhow.

But you're right, it's definitely not referring to the Tarsus Academy.

Edit: Now that I see his post, God From Machine has the right idea.

Yeah, your right. I didn't think of the full context in which she was speaking. In that case, the definition of academic would be more along the lines of "having no practical or useful significance". The reason I misinterpreted it is becasue I was just thinking it it in context of "An academic distincion if he really has a nanite detonator", and I didn't think back to the preceding coversation.

Only 39 more days until IW's "release" date. =D

Esquire
26th Oct 2003, 09:05
ok, ok. i cudn't hear what the waltonsimons soundalike was sayin.
Since yous were talkin about AlexD earlier, me's gots to wondering... in DX1 if u changed the appearance of JC u also changed the appearance of Paul. but now there's a 3rd Denton.
I wonder if they remembered about this in DX2, if Alex has a dark skin tone, JC and Paul will too. cos they supposed to be clones.
JC better not turn out to be a sneaky Illuminati member. that would destroy everything i worked for in DX1 and as a result i'd have to join his opposing faction in DX2.

Dr Strangelove
27th Oct 2003, 18:41
Originally posted by AlteredGlyph
Versalife didn't blow up, just the UC. And also, versalife is still around, so it still has control of the transgenics, although some of them probably escaped.

I think Versalife collapsed after it came out that they had been making the gray death virus

darklightning
27th Oct 2003, 22:35
Yeah, I was gonna reply to this earlier and I forgot, but I believe that Dr. Stranglove is correct. According to the website, if I remember correctly, after it was revealed that VersaLife was behind the Grey Death, they collapsed and all the transgenics escaped into the city on their own, although the greys prefer to avoid the cities and have sought caves and other safehavens.

Just a curiosity, we won't have to worry about the greys being radioactive or anything in IW, will we? :-p Cuz that was kind of annoying.

Machinax
28th Oct 2003, 05:55
I don't see why they wouldn't be. Either way, the greasels will still have their toxic saliva. Man, I hated those things in the first game, and now I'm gonna hate 'em even more.

AlteredGlyph
28th Oct 2003, 17:02
Heh. During my first time through the game, I only had the three heavys, and I toasted the greasels so nicely with my beeeeutiful flamethrower. It was also fun sniping guards with my plasma rifle:D

Esquire
28th Oct 2003, 17:13
wow! daint kno u cud add a lens to the plasmagun. And u're damn rite about them greasels,, TOAST EM ALL! never did like any of them alien creatures, anything that weren't humanoid creeped me out!

AlteredGlyph
28th Oct 2003, 18:56
You can add a scope to any pistol or heavy except for the flamethrower.

Esquire
28th Oct 2003, 20:43
cool.
i wonder wat's happened to our old friend Alex Jacobson (hey he's called Alex too!). last we saw of him was at Tracer Tong's lab in HongKong.

Machinax
29th Oct 2003, 04:19
No, the last we see of him is in Morgan Everett's house somewhere in France. Tong sent Alex to keep an eye on Everett, since Tong was not sure of the latter's motives. And with good reason, too.

Esquire
29th Oct 2003, 15:22
oh yeah, i forgot bowt that.

auric
29th Oct 2003, 15:48
Originally posted by AlteredGlyph
You can add a scope to any pistol or heavy except for the flamethrower.

I don't think either shotguns can add a scope too. all those that don't require aiming can't have a scope, i think.

But a LAW should have its own scope, some weapons with a scope picture on it, can't zoom. :)

Tbone
29th Oct 2003, 17:09
Hmm. I wonder if Alex Jacobson will be returning. That would get kind of confusing.

"Alex, this is Alex! I need you to break into..."



"Hey, Alex!"
"Yeah?"
"No, not you. The other Alex!"

Machinax
29th Oct 2003, 17:14
"Hey Alex, I'm Alex, I was your dad's --"
"Alex? You must be a clone sent by one of the rival factions. Let me bust a cap in yo ass."
Blam.

AlteredGlyph
29th Oct 2003, 17:16
Seeing Alex Jacobson again would be great. He was my second favorite character, just under Tracer Tong.

jonaswakefieid
30th Oct 2003, 01:47
In response to the original question of how they were dealing with the three endings I think that based on everything they have told us, They went with the dance floor ending. clearly. The other endings are kind of like irrelevant subplots compared to the mind blower of the true ending.

Alex.D
30th Oct 2003, 06:41
Look helios ending did make sence because maybe just maybe helios is like a super aug so j.c can turn on and off is powers.that may sound gay but here's my thery the illuminati belive in power being knoledge so J.C would be the leader of the illuminati so the leader i cant rem his name would get pissed off and try take his place back so maybe J.c left and made his own gang. i recon he should join the templars i like their crew cuts!:cool:

Alex.D
30th Oct 2003, 06:42
or maybe this was just a dream and j.c was actually stoned hmmmmmmmm what an intresting predicament!

Esquire
30th Oct 2003, 10:50
ok, yous reckon they'll bring Smuggler into DX2. He can be our weapons and occasional biomod dealer. DX2,,, So many possibilities. i heard that there's gonna b different levels to Seattle (like posher and richer) and you can visit all of them. ne1 else heard that or did i jus imagine it?

Zhanate
30th Oct 2003, 14:46
It all comes down to the infolink: By the time JC gets to the Aquinas Sector, he's had it up to here with people arguing in his head.

So he joins with Helios, who controls all communications, and gets it to regulate the infolink traffic and convey messages back to the people on the other end of the infolink. He tells Tong and Everett that if they ever, ever start talking to each other through his infolink again, he'll tranq them each for a month -- at least.

Then, with peace and quiet in his head, (Helios is holding calls) he decides the stuff at Area 51 is just too wrong to go on, even if Page is dead -- plus, since he merged with Helios, the setup for the world communications hub is safe. He destroys Area 51, gets out (with Alex safely tucked into his magic coat) and uses Everett's connections to get the right hardware and put global communications back in place -- without the spying/controlling aspects.

Then he finally lets himself sleep, knowing no one is spying on his dreams.

Machinax
30th Oct 2003, 15:26
What say we all just SHUT UP with these theories and wait for the game to come out?

Lawnboy360
30th Oct 2003, 15:51
If we don't speculate, argue, and complain, then what's the point of this forum?

Machinax
30th Oct 2003, 16:01
Well, I flew off the handle a bit. But it seems that everybody has their own well-worked and insightful theory on what organization does what and how it relates to who and who's covering for who. I've pretty much given up on speculating on theories for fear of a), actually being right somehow and spoiling the surprise, and b) because I don't know what the game developers were thinking when they plotted the game out, and c) we're so close to the game being released, and yet it seems so far away, that any speculation will make me go insane. So. Yes.

Le`Sauveur`De`Ces`Dames
30th Oct 2003, 16:26
there is a d) some people may come to this forum and mistake these theroies for known fact and start complaining...

but still, most of some of these theories made me laugh a lot...

jonaswakefieid
31st Oct 2003, 02:11
I like Alex D's theory. The irony of Deus Ex ending with a Deus Ex Machina is too much for me to resist.

Esquire
31st Oct 2003, 14:26
"...sadly, the most widely applied weapon in the war for humanity's future is terrorism." - from DX2 website.

I'm wondering about what kind of tasks the factions will be asking Alex to do. In DX1, JC worked in UNATCO who fight terrorists. So JC's tasks were simple enough. and then, once JC left, he was trying to bring down the conspiracy, so his tasks then were simple enough.
But now, in DX2, people are trying to create a new world order. So how will these factions be using Alex to create this new order? They (the DX2 website) say that terrorism is the most widely applied weapon in the invisible war, so i'm starting to imagine AlexD running around buildings setting explosives and sneaking into rival factions' computer rooms and installing viruses etc.

Anyone else got ideas on the missions in DX2?

Machinax
2nd Nov 2003, 06:27
Good points you raised. I guess we'll have to play the game through all four times to really gleam all the moral aspects of what Ion Storm have in mind for it.

Lawnboy360
2nd Nov 2003, 17:22
I guess we'll have to play the game through all four times to really gleam all the moral aspects of what Ion Storm have in mind for it.

I'm really looking forward to that!

Amazon Warrior
2nd Nov 2003, 17:50
In response to the original question of how they were dealing with the three endings I think that based on everything they have told us, They went with the dance floor ending. clearly. The other endings are kind of like irrelevant subplots compared to the mind blower of the true ending.
Que? Did I miss something? Is this an Easter egg, and how do you find it?

gareis
2nd Nov 2003, 20:08
Originally posted by Machinax
Good points you raised. I guess we'll have to play the game through all four times to really gleam all the moral aspects of what Ion Storm have in mind for it.

ISA gives you choices and doesn't try to tell you what's right. I thought that was the point of DX:IW. So to glean all the moral aspects that Ion Storm had in mind, you'd have to play a different game.

Machinax
2nd Nov 2003, 20:30
True, I was thinking more on the lines of the original, in that how you were forced to fight against UNATCO (the moral "choice" being truth over ... something). DX:IW should, hopefully, be a lot more open-ended.

Esquire
3rd Nov 2003, 22:33
Originally posted by Amazon Warrior
Que? Did I miss something? Is this an Easter egg, and how do you find it?

yeah i use a cheat to get to that endgame. You know the "legend" cheat, i used that.

I've been looking through some new screenshots of DXIW, when i noticed something that i can no longer remember. Anyway, i have remembered the words that i whispered to myself,
"Could Nicolette DuClare be the the Leader of the Order?!"
as i've said i cant remember why these words have come into my head. But they're here since this is the storyline poll.
Take a shot and hope a bullet hits

AlteredGlyph
4th Nov 2003, 04:28
As I've said before, NG Resonance is the leader of the order. Once again, there is no evidence, but it's a powerful feeling in my gut.

Hwarang
4th Nov 2003, 08:45
Just thought I'd point out Alex.D that I don't think JC would join the Templars as it says on the site that the Templars are against any type of human modifications.

Hwarang.

Le`Sauveur`De`Ces`Dames
4th Nov 2003, 08:57
Originally posted by Esquire
"Could Nicolette DuClare be the the Leader of the Order?!"



Originally posted by Esquire
As I've said before, NG Resonance is the leader of the order

therefore, Nicolette IS NG (notice the N. where did the G come from?)

(my mathematical abilities are impressive, sometimes)

Tassadar5000
4th Nov 2003, 10:44
What I first thought they were going to do was have it default on the Dark Age ending, but have it so that if you played through DX1, you could import your save file and that would be the ending. It would also determine if Paul was there or whatnot.
Paul isn't too difficult to explain. Maybe some hacker decided to put a failsafe in paul resurrecting him if he died, or whatnot.

Le`Sauveur`De`Ces`Dames
4th Nov 2003, 10:49
it seems your Paul hasn't been shut down properly what do you want to do:

-run normal Paul
-run step-by-step Paul
-run Paul in Safe mode?

AlteredGlyph
4th Nov 2003, 15:30
You know what? I think you're actually right!
We solved the mystery!!!! YAY!!!!
The G is unexplained, but still, Nicolette having a hand in NG Resonance feels correct, the gut instinct tells me its true. But it's probably not.

Le`Sauveur`De`Ces`Dames
4th Nov 2003, 16:06
ok, let's push it further :

NG is obviously too you to be the original nicolettte. she must be a clone. or maybe a daughter of the same name she had with JC.

OR she could be just an AI created by JC's to control the Order:
in that case, she is just an hologram facade, a CGI created from the memories he had of Nicolette

(look, we found where the G came from : it's "generated")

I am definitely the master of deduction

cball05
4th Nov 2003, 19:23
Originally posted by Hwarang
Just thought I'd point out Alex.D that I don't think JC would join the Templars as it says on the site that the Templars are against any type of human modifications.

Yeah I was thinking the same thing: how can the Templars be a possible faction if you're augmented? Would you have to remove all your biomods in order to be accepted?

Lawnboy360
4th Nov 2003, 20:00
NG could be ''new generation''


Would you have to remove all your biomods in order to be accepted?

It's such an important part of the game, I doubt it.

Amazon Warrior
4th Nov 2003, 20:59
Yeah I was thinking the same thing: how can the Templars be a possible faction if you're augmented? Would you have to remove all your biomods in order to be accepted?
I've been thinking about this a bit. How about this? The Templars are rigidly against the use of technology in human bodies. However, if they cleave to this principle tightly, they rapidly get left behind by other, less scrupulous factions prepared to use any new technology going. So possibly what they do is contact 'shady' types, and give them the vaguest of orders, like for example:

Templars: "Person X has become an embarrasment to us, however we want to avoid upsetting Faction Y."

Shady type: "Indeed. Y can be very touchy where X is concerned."

Templars: "We would like you to send someone to discuss matters with X, putting across our very reasonable points of view, and not annoying Y."

Shady type: "How strongly would you like your points of view made?"

Templars: "As strongly as possible. Make sure they get the message."

Shady type: "Consider it done."

The Templars could then achieve their goal of eliminating X, but deny all knowledge to faction Y, while keeping their 'purist' hands free of filthy nanotech, because they didn't specify that the delegate sent to 'discuss matters' was not a nanoaug'ed human, they left that to the discretion of their shady agent.

So as Alex D you might find yourself being given assassination ops without knowing who you were ultimately working for, and only later find out it was the Templars. However, maybe once the Templars gained enough control, they'd turn against their unacknowledged nano-aug allies and deal out merciless death and destruction to them. They'd have to feel pretty secure in order to do this, tho, and maybe there would be a way to reveal their double-crossing ways too early and further weaken their position by acting as a double agent. But you'd have to find out where your orders originated from to do this.

Viking
9th Nov 2003, 17:52
It actually says in some article about the developer's journal somewhere: Ironically, the Templars' best weapon to eliminate biomodification may be biomodification itself in the form of Alex. Meaning, to eliminate all other biomodification, the Templars will have to use Alex, or they will lose. Realizing this, they have probably made a compromise to let Alex work them, even though he may be biomodified. At the end, perhaps, when they win over their enemies and the game is over, they offer to shut down Alex's biomods, if that is possible. If not, they might just turn around and kill Alex, though I doubt it. They'd probably just find a way to neutralize his/her biomods forever.

Hwarang
10th Nov 2003, 01:51
Actually to quote it precicely, and just incase some people have chosen not to read it yet I'll do this as a spoiler
Ironically, the biomodification technology the runs through the player's veins may be the key to developing the ultimate weapon they need to eradicate biomodification once and for all.
And if so then.
Wouldn't that probably mean that the Templars would be AFTER Alex? Alex's nano-augmentations are probably far more advanced than anyone else's as he was specifically engineered to be that way. So the Templars probably USE Alex, and then reverse-engineer him at the end of the game in order to be able to destroy bio-modifications altogether.

Hwarang.

auric
10th Nov 2003, 02:00
Isn't Alex, uhh "old tech."?

he is after all made 20 years in the past. He's Augmentations should not be as advance as the current once, unless Time has no effect on Augmentations.

in other words, Augs can be adepted to function like the new once.

:)

Hwarang
10th Nov 2003, 02:09
He would be the most advanced 20 year old (or however old he is) augmented human. If you remember correctly from the first one the Dentons were genetically engineered. And so maybe its not the Nano-Tech that Alex carries, but his DNA.

Hwarang.

auric
10th Nov 2003, 02:37
UH, who's DNA are refering that Alex is carrying?

JC, Paul & Alex are all created seperatedly. :confused:

Lawnboy360
10th Nov 2003, 02:48
Same DNA.

Edit:

From DX design doc:


Although Paul's other believed that the surgery would let her become pregnant again, in reality the Majestic 12 operatives implanted her with a cloned embryo of Paul.

Nine months later, J.C. Denton was born.

Adding Alex as another clone in the cloning chamber at the end of DX was probably a late idea when they started thinking about a possible sequel, which would explain why he's not mentioned in the design docs.

Hwarang
10th Nov 2003, 02:57
Yes, they were all created seperately, but they all have the same DNA (albeit sleightly altered otherwise they would all look the same). Also, maybe JC has slight upgrades over Paul, whilst Alex would have slight upgrades over JC.

In DX, there were different stages of the Augmented Human design. Paul, and JC were the latest "models", with the most significant (aesthetic) difference being that they were not albino humans. (unless of course you chose them from the start, however this was a contradiction in the game that I suspect wasn't supposed to be there). Also in the older designs the fact that they were an augmented human was more easily noticable in the "blue veins" as seen in Walton Simons (I believe he was the model before JC and Paul).

Now, seeing as Alex was designed in the same place as Paul and JC (Area 51) and that it was destroyed at the end of DX, that would mean that Alex would be the most advanced Augmented Human (from that particular project anyway).

Hwarang.

Lawnboy360
10th Nov 2003, 03:03
In DX, there were different stages of the Augmented Human design. Paul, and JC were the latest "models", with the most significant (aesthetic) difference being that they were not albino humans.

The most significant aesthetic difference is that previous augmentations were mechanical (Gunther, Anna); you and Paul are the firsts to use nano-augs, so you look like a normal human, which makes Gunther and Anna jealous.

Hwarang
10th Nov 2003, 03:07
Sorry, that should have been "Nano-Augmented Human". Paul and JC weren't the first to use nano-augs, they were the first UNATCO agents to use nano-augs. As I said, I believe Walton Simons was a nano-augmented human from the model before JC and Paul.

There is a holo-notepad thing, or a diary or something in one of the labs that describes what I was saying about the albino differences.

Lawnboy360
10th Nov 2003, 03:22
Possible, I'll try to find more info on Walton.


2018: Paul Denton born
2023: Paul, age 5, selected as test subject, cloned
2028: Tests on clones show limited success; Paul's mother impregnated with J.C.
2029: J.C. Denton born; scientists perfect embryonic incubator; additional clones grown over the next 15-20 years
2034: Experiments begin on second generation of clones (~age 5)
2035: Paul and J.C.'s parents killed by Majestic 12; J.C. sent to Swiss school
2036: Paul goes to four-year university
2040: Paul, age 22, joins UNATCO
2044: Common emotional centers in brain discovered (+/- 2 years)
2046: Work on Ambrosia project begins (?)
2047: J.C. graduates from Swiss school
2049: Last kinks are worked out of nano-augmentation
2050: Paul is offered nano-augmentation; procedure is successful; work stops on
clones; most clones destroyed
2051: J.C., age 22, joins UNATCO, trains, is offered nano-augmentation
2052: Nano-augmentation procedure is successful.

Edit:

On Bob Page; probably applies to Walton as well.


He has an Infolink, has had himself nano-augmented (in ways that increase his intellect and connectedness to the world rather than his strength, speed or combat capabilities).

Hwarang
10th Nov 2003, 03:28
Where do you find that stuff Lawnboy?

Lawnboy360
10th Nov 2003, 03:30
http://www.gamespy.com/articles/april02/dxbible/dx1/
DX1 continuity bible (design documents)

12 page long (at first only 8 pages are available at the bottom, when you press "next" on the 8th page you get the others.)

Very interesting, a must read for serious DX fans ;) .

Hwarang
10th Nov 2003, 03:36
Checkin it out now, thanks.:)

Hwarang
10th Nov 2003, 04:08
The stuff in that article seems a little old Lawnboy, before DX was released? Some of the things that I've read in there contradict some of the stuff that I read in the actual game. Like as I said about the albino nano-augmented humans.

There is another site on the net (can't remember where though) that has EVERY piece of text from the DX game copied into a few html pages. I think it would be a better source of info than that site, but I have to find where it is again.

Hwarang.

Varamyr
10th Nov 2003, 04:22
A lot of things were changed after the DX continuity bible was first written, and a lot of the information is no longer correct. Still, it's a good look at how things might have been.

Hwarang
10th Nov 2003, 05:46
Agreed it was an interesting read. Though it doesn't help us out very much seems we are talking about what actually DID happen in the game. Anyone with a link to the entire Deus Ex script, including all data-pad/book/and diary text?

Otherwise I'm gonna have to go and play through it again...which I don't have time for at the moment.

Hwarang

MaxxQ
10th Nov 2003, 07:45
Originally posted by Hwarang
There is another site on the net (can't remember where though) that has EVERY piece of text from the DX game copied into a few html pages. I think it would be a better source of info than that site, but I have to find where it is again.

Hwarang.

Here ya go:

http://stl.caltech.edu/dx.shtml

Edit: It's not the entire script, just the text found on datacubes, in newspapers, etc.

Dr Strangelove
10th Nov 2003, 08:03
There is a holo-notepad thing, or a diary or something in one of the labs that describes what I was saying about the albino differences.
If you're talking about the MiB and WiB email/datacube thing, I think that's a third type of augmentation altogether, not as good as either mechanical or nano-augmentations, but far far cheaper. It's called some weird long word I think they made up in the text, but I think it has something to do with giving the drugs

Hwarang
10th Nov 2003, 08:08
Thanks MaxxQ, thats the exact site I was talking about.

If you search for "albino" on the page that MaxxQ posted, you'll find what I was talking about, which to me suggests that JC and Paul were engineered, also this from the guy that analyzed all the stuff...

In the end, I have to conclude that the first scenario is more strongly supported by the evidence. J.C. is actually a couple of years old, and has been growth-accelerated. However, the acceleration did not happen all at once. It occurred in at least two bursts, and in the interim, a teenage J.C. went to school in Switzerland and was raised by false "parents". This makes the most sense, considering all of the evidence in DX.

Hwarang.

MaxxQ
10th Nov 2003, 08:18
Originally posted by Hwarang
Thanks MaxxQ, thats the exact site I was talking about.


No problem.

Lawnboy360
10th Nov 2003, 16:08
Originally posted by MaxxQ
Here ya go:

http://stl.caltech.edu/dx.shtml

Edit: It's not the entire script, just the text found on datacubes, in newspapers, etc.

Well, there's the original intro script with Maggie Show walking past Page and Simons. I've already seen this page, but before playing all the way through DX. Interesting stuff.


JC Denton is one of two nano-technologically augmented persons in the world. [Note: This is what the player knows at the beginning of the game. Later, it is revealed that both Walton Simons and Bob Page are nanoaugmented.]

The quotes are nice:

[/B]
By using a cheat code, a "Legend" menu can be brought up; aside from options to modify the internal game state, a list of quotations from the developers can be displayed. Many aren't relevant to the design of Deus Ex, but some are; here's an abridged list of them.

Warren: Poof! I am God.

Steve: The only problem with an online community is that there are people in it.

Harvey: Hey Monte, do you read much?
Monte: What? Books?

Chris: Dead guys don't float but they will, eventually.

Warren: If we get a bunch of rats and pigeons in the appropriate
places, people will *****.

Harvey: The Statue of Liberty does not look like the Statue of Liberty without that giant ******** green statue on top.

Dan: Women are very high poly count.

Tim to Albert: You've found an interesting way to break the
script compiler.

Warren: Wait a minute - this is a dialogue rather than a flame. Cool.

Monte: Movers suck.

Warren: Well, this is a paradigmatic problem!
Everyone else in the room laughs hard.
Warren: What? That's a word! It is!

Harvey: Killing people... not a problem.

Warren: We don't want to educate people unnecessarily.

Bob: Death definitely improves one's frame rate.

Chris: Math is so cool. Hooray for math!

Warren: (writing up a bug) Bots that aren't actively engaged
in some kind of activity look pretty lifeless.

Scott: You can gib a child with one stroke of the nanosword!
Chris: That's because children have fewer hit points. They
are inferior and weak.

Steve: Setting the AI reactions for a giant spiderbot is pretty
easy... hate, hate, hate, hate.

Steve: I got my leg blown off yesterday and I really didn't notice anything different.

Austin to Chris Todd: You're really putting the grimness into
this game.

Andy: Hey Warren, I would actually buy this game now...

Andy: The karkians look like big potatos with legs, potato dogs!

"Paranoia means having all the facts" - William S. Burroughs


We worked out a bunch of missions - more than 25 of them, taking the player from New York to London to Paris to San Antonio, to Austin to Siberia to Washington, D.C., to NORAD to Sunken L.A. (post-earthquake) to the Moon. We had wars in Texas, raids on concentration camps to free 2,000 prisoners from UN troops under FEMA control. Those of you who think the Deus Ex story line includes everything plus the kitchen sink now should have seen what we started with!