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View Full Version : Mantling, ladders and upgrades...



Amazon Warrior
7th Oct 2003, 00:16
Ok, so kill me if this has been said before. I've seen no mention of it, but I haven't had time to read _all_ the threads, either.

One of the things that really annoyed me about DX was the way it handled ladders. In most of the FPS/RPG games I've played, you run into a ladder to stick to it, then look up and walk forward to climb up, or backwards to climb down. Trying to walk backwards while looking up in order to climb down a ladder in the DX world resulted in a fast-track to broken legs at the bottom of the ladder. Irritating, cos even if its a small drop, it often lands you in a nest of baddies, who then kill you. The solution appeared to be that you had to look down and then walk forward, which was somewhat less than intuitive (and slow, too. Coming out of the sewers in Paris involved much peeking out, then ducking back down the ladder. Done wrong, the fall was just large enough to cause your legs to lose all health if it happened too often). I really hope this gets ironed out in DX:IW.

Also, mantling. What has happened to this useful but underrated skill? Garret in Thief was capable of climbing onto largish crates, as was the guy in System Shock 2. But it seems to have been left out of more recent games that I've played. Are we really to believe that we can pilot these very fit, highly trained blokies round death-defying levels, but that they are completely incapable of climbing or jumping onto anything higher than their knees? Freeman in HL could sort of mantle if you pressed crouch and jump together, but it was an inexact science, and not the real deal.:rolleyes: JC can only jump onto the smallest crates without aug assistance, whereas Garret could have mantled onto the middle-sized crates with ease.

Part of rant the third: Augmentation upgrades. I felt that you should have been able to use the installation canisters to upgrade augmentations if you already had them. It was really annoying to pick up an exciting new canister, only to drop it again because you already had it installed. I reckon it would have worked, since you might not discover all the installation canisters at the earliest possible opportunities, and not all of the augs appeared more than once (eg combat/microfibrial strength) so you'd still need the upgrade canisters if you wanted tech 4 on some augs. Also, you'd still need a med-bot, thus introducing another limitation. I'm looking forward to seeing how the combi system works in IW.

I realise that this looks like quite a big whinge session, but it has to be said that I would consider mantling and upgrades to be nice-to-haves: they weren't there, you could manage perfectly well without them, but it would have been cool. I've played DX three times now, and I've learnt new things about the game (and myself) each time. I could (and probably will) happily play it many times more, because it is an incredible game, despite the way it deals with ladders! As they say, observe, adapt, overcome:).

Random
7th Oct 2003, 01:29
Mantling is in there.

AlteredGlyph
7th Oct 2003, 04:06
Also, the bimod canisters are used to upgrade your augs, so another one of your whiges has been fixed. I haven't heard about the ladders though, not that I found them frustrating at all, myself.

crimson_stallion
7th Oct 2003, 08:16
Ladders didnt bother me TOO much, but there were times that they annoyed me, especially when i was new to the game. I liked the way Raven Shield dealed with ladders, personally. Even though it rendered you unable to fire while climbing them, it felt very realistic. Also i like the way project IGI allowed you to press the use key to 'slide' down the ladder. Very useful when you didnt have the patience to slowly wonder down. In all though, it didnt bother me too much.

The crate climbing, at times, did get somewhat annoying. Some of the medium sized crates just looke very realisticly climbable, and when you jumped you were practically at the top of the crate, yet still couldnt get onto it. Led to me trying for hours thinkin g'maybe im not jumping with, ill try the half life crouch jump" which of course didnt help. In the end u usually have to either use the jumping aug, or find lots of little crates to stack up to use as steps. Again though, was more a slight complication then anything else. Didnt drive me nuts, just would have been nice to be able to jump, grab and pull yourself up. I recall a recentish FPS that allowed that, but cant remember which. Was a nice feature.

Onto the augs, yeh it was a bit frustrating when picking up an aug you already had. The excitement would build up like" woo hoo another aug" and you drop soemthing to pick it up, go in the inventory, and suddenly realise you already have it. Unhappilly sigh, drop the aug, pick the thing you dropped back up, and move on. Yet again, it was quite a small thing, and mroe of an irritant then anything else (is irritant a word?). i guess that sometimes 'little things mean alot' though, and alot of little things can join together to create quite an annoyance. Luckilly, that didnt seem to happen in deus ex, and the overall experience gave a feeling of near perfections, despite faults:)
Lets hope I war continues the trend !

Le`Sauveur`De`Ces`Dames
7th Oct 2003, 09:20
(is irritant a word?).

as the twins would say in Matrix Reloaded "aggravating"

the ladders didn't bother me too much (except when trying to run away from the guard, and trying to climb down a ladder to the sewers (Paris, for example, or the airport), and I kept running past the ladder beacause I couldn't "stick" on it.

about the augs, i preferred it that way, since if we could use the Aug canister like un upgrade canister, we could easily go to level 4 for every aug, which means you don't have to make choices anymore. an I prefer to be able to find them even at the end, because sometimes I didn't find them before (Ok, it's not that often, I usually explore every part of the map, but still)

goody
7th Oct 2003, 16:13
Id love to be able to do what you can do on Splinter Cell, with rappeling/shooting and zip wiring. Wouldnt that give an extra dimension to IW?

TehFreak
7th Oct 2003, 19:35
that kind of thing probably wouldn't work too well in 1st person

Amazon Warrior
7th Oct 2003, 21:56
Yeah, I guess that I sounded a tad extreme, looking back. Fact is that I tended to try and investigate everything that looked even remotely accesible, and was frustrated when I couldn't just scramble up onto a pile of crates to get somewhere. However, this didn't stop me from feeling that I'd had the greatest gaming experience of my life to date when I completed it for the first time! Deus ex ruled my life for the four days that this took, which was worrying since I bought it four days before I had to hand in a fairly important piece of coursework:p . I have no self-control where this game is concerned. I'm properly looking forwards to IW, but I'll have to make sure that I've got nothing urgent on for about a week! :D

Incidentally, I know the skills and augs systems have been combined in IW, but does anyone know if there will be a similar system to DX, in that when you discovered a new route or secret room you sometimes got points for exploration? This was one of the things I genuinely loved about the game, since it put a premium on getting to know the environments and characters within them, aside from any goodies that might have been lying around.

For instance, there were at least five different ways onto the PRCS Wallcloud that I can think of just now (two ladders, a crane, the ramp and another crane), and I went and did all of them in turn since you got something like 20 points for each successful boarding, never mind the number of different routes to get to the ship in the first place.

I had endless fun just wandering around and talking to general passers-by, because you never knew what random or useful stuff they would come out with. Good for comedy moments both intentional and otherwise! I admit, I don't need any incentive at all to go exploring, but it was nice to be rewarded for it. It was like 'at last, a game that truly understands what it means to be nosy!' Tho it probably wouldn't be skills points, so I wonder what they'd use instead?

Random
8th Oct 2003, 01:12
It won't be skills, but I'm guessing they'll just place a variety of items around the maps, like ammo, medkits, biocells, biomod upgrades, etc. They did the same in DX1 (along with the skill points), and that was what made me explore.

Le`Sauveur`De`Ces`Dames
8th Oct 2003, 07:28
Incidentally, I know the skills and augs systems have been combined in IW, but does anyone know if there will be a similar system to DX, in that when you discovered a new route or secret room you sometimes got points for exploration? This was one of the things I genuinely loved about the game, since it put a premium on getting to know the environments and characters within them, aside from any goodies that might have been lying around.

maybe you'll get upgrade canister, or informations, or weapons upgrades, who knows

crimson_stallion
8th Oct 2003, 13:59
Originally posted by TehFreak
that kind of thing probably wouldn't work too well in 1st person

I remember that theif had it. the rope arrow, you could shoot it at a wooden roof and then basically rapell up it i think... if it was in theif, and deus ex is using a smililar engine then... hmm...

Random
8th Oct 2003, 14:12
I think the speed aug with super jumping could serve the same purpose.