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View Full Version : Deus Ex Opinion.... Comment If You Disagree/Agree



sheraz_ali19
26th Sep 2003, 17:55
Ok first thing's first. Changing JC's voice or any other main character's voice would just be retarded. Like what are we suppose to believe that they suddenly hit puberty or something like that? I mean come on leave the voices as they are. And beside I like JC's voice epecially because it's so deep and when he talks it make you want to listen to very closly and he captivates you in his words through his tremendous vocal capabilities. I love it.

Ok secondly, this next comment is just my general opinion of what i think about Deus Ex. I think the producers of this game have done an excellent job of creating a virtual reality life. During my quest through this gam, I actually felt all sorts of feelings. For example when i found out Paul was working for the NSF, at first in reality i was heart broken then later on i understood why he did what he did. And i mean things like that make the game so much special. I have never played a game that has made me personalyl feel anything about whats going on in the game. So to the producers you guys and gyal have done a wonderful job of making this game very relistic as well as personal. Also i hope Eidos comes out with more and more of these types of games. First play shooter/action/role playing/espionage/secrets/lies/decete/killing/conspiracy .. and the list can go on forever. I think all of those and more attributes should be giving to more games developed in the future. It would be really sad to see that after Deus Ex II there will be no more games as good as DX. And i think everyone who is a fan of Deus Ex and gaming in general will be disappointed as well. Graphics for the second sequal look really good. Im still waiting for a DX2 trailer to come out i hope that's ready soon. And basically thats all i wanted to say. Thanks for your time.

Trollslayer
26th Sep 2003, 21:09
Originally posted by sheraz_ali19
Ok first thing's first. Changing JC's voice or any other main character's voice would just be retarded. Like what are we suppose to believe that they suddenly hit puberty or something like that? I mean come on leave the voices as they are. And beside I like JC's voice epecially because it's so deep and when he talks it make you want to listen to very closly and he captivates you in his words through his tremendous vocal capabilities. I love it.

Thats not "retarded". Since you played DX1, here's a question - did you call the designers retarded for having JC use a diferent voice when he merged with Helios? Really doubt that. Furthermore the sequel happens somewhere in the future. People eventually get old. The voice tone usually changes. Having an older person have the same voice they had when they were younger is actually the "retarded" decision. If they mature, more than likely the voices mature.

Oh, and, i disagree.

Trollslayer
26th Sep 2003, 21:12
By the way, is there supposed to be anything we could agree/disagree with in that second part? :confused:

Oh and Eidos is the publisher. Its Ion Storm who should be cranking out more games like this.

sheraz_ali19
26th Sep 2003, 21:17
Uhhhhhh.. I didnt know Augmented Agents get old... hmmm must be something new.... what do u think...

sheraz_ali19
26th Sep 2003, 21:19
And judging by the pics it doesnt seem like JC gets older or "matures" ... so therefore it would be 'retarded" if he had another voice....

sheraz_ali19
26th Sep 2003, 21:20
But thanx for your opinion

sheraz_ali19
26th Sep 2003, 21:21
And yes... you can disagree to the second part... If u dont feel that the game moved u in anay way... or if the makers didnt do a good job.. :) etc. etc.. to all the things i said ... theres always an agreement and disagreement in statements of opinion...

Trollslayer
26th Sep 2003, 21:26
Originally posted by sheraz_ali19
And judging by the pics it doesnt seem like JC gets older or "matures" ... so therefore it would be 'retarded" if he had another voice....

So i'll ask again. What did you thought of JC's altered voice when he accepted the AI's?

Picasso
26th Sep 2003, 22:09
First off, I don't know what makes you think that the voices will be different. It's been confirmed that Jay Franke is returning as Paul and JC Denton.


Im still waiting for a DX2 trailer to come out i hope that's ready soon.

Ion Storm released the game's intro movie, and that's probably the closest thing to a trailer that we'll get before the game's release.

Huntress
27th Sep 2003, 00:59
well first thing I would like to say/suggest, is when you post please don't make a new post for each of your follow-up comments without a need for doing it that way :) In other words..a reply to a next response when it would be the proper way to enter a new post, otherwise use the edit button and put in your current post to add another line or whatever....takes up bandwidth and space on the board for other commentary, etc.

Now as far as your post goes...DX the end of that type of game genre? No I don't think so...there are others that follow that type of game play...i.e. Splinter Cell...Thief series...so try them out if you haven't and particularly Thief 3 as well when it's released. Immersive, sneaking, action, story, just as intriging but in a different timeline, etc. There will be others that will have those elements incorporated be sure of that :D Ta and Good Hunting!

Don
27th Sep 2003, 09:01
I agree that the voice of JC, as well as those of Paul and any other augmented people, should not have changed. As sheraz_ali said, augmented people wouldn't age because their tissues are constantly maintained by their nanites.

PDenton
27th Sep 2003, 11:06
Originally posted by Picasso
First off, I don't know what makes you think that the voices will be different. It's been confirmed that Jay Franke is returning as Paul and JC Denton.
This kind of makes the first point void as it doesn't matter if changing it would be retarded if it hasn't changed, but I do agree that they probably wouldn't change.

Secondly I didn't really feel moved by the game. Sure it had morales and pointed out isues that are problems in our societies (homelessness, drugs, war etc...) but really its just a game and thats how I think about it.

Trollslayer
27th Sep 2003, 18:58
Link to the tissue regeneartion thing, please (or in-game descriptions). I'm sick and don't have the manpower to look trough it. Thanks in advance.

James Warren
27th Sep 2003, 19:44
sheraz_ali19{
And judging by the pics it doesnt seem like JC gets older or "matures" . . .
}

I may have missed some screen shots somewhere. Please share the wealth. Where I can view pictures of how JC will appear in DX2. You don't mean the various proposed box covers showing Alex in that ugly "Punk," "Hip Hop," "Miami Vice" looking style do you?

Picasso
27th Sep 2003, 19:56
JC and Paul haven't been shown yet as they will appear in DX2. I don't know what sheraz thought was JC, but it wasn't.

I don't know where this whole "nanites keep you from growing older" thing came from, but I doubt it's from the game fiction.

Actually, we've seen pics of Tracer Tong, very old and slightly disfigured, and it's been mentioned that nanites are the only thing between him and death from old age, so it's probable that nanites can extend one's lifespan, but I doubt that they're a fountain of youth, as some seem to be claiming.

Trollslayer
27th Sep 2003, 22:54
Hey don't diss out Miami Vice. Phillip Michael Thomas owns you.

Random
28th Sep 2003, 02:51
Sheraz, in case you haven't heard this yet, the player character in DX2 is Alex D, not JC. JC is still in the game (voiced by the same person), but you do not control him.

Don
28th Sep 2003, 08:24
Originally posted by Picasso
JC and Paul haven't been shown yet as they will appear in DX2. I don't know what sheraz thought was JC, but it wasn't.

I don't know where this whole "nanites keep you from growing older" thing came from, but I doubt it's from the game fiction.

Actually, we've seen pics of Tracer Tong, very old and slightly disfigured, and it's been mentioned that nanites are the only thing between him and death from old age, so it's probable that nanites can extend one's lifespan, but I doubt that they're a fountain of youth, as some seem to be claiming.


As far as the nanites in the game fiction are concerned, it isn't specifically said that augmented agents are immortal; however it does follow from one main fact. Remember the regeneration augmentation? The one that allowed you to heal when it was activated. This means the nanites repair the cells at the molecular level. If they can do this, they can maintain cells in perfect condition indefinitely.
As for nanites being a fountain of youth, it is theoretically probable. Nanotechnology obeys all physical laws and we understand enough about biology to merge them. The trouble is building the nanites and this is where the advancements need to be made.

Trollslayer
28th Sep 2003, 11:47
Nanites can repair damage in the same way your body repairs damage, only faster. Human cells die very quickly - there isn't anything that can change that. Putting nanites into the equation and shoving it on a setting like DX, however, may make it so the nanites not only repair cells faster, but may increase their longevity, but i doubt its by much. In fact the example of the Regen aug is the same - they heal, they don't extend duration (and if they do i don't remember anything about it).

Don
28th Sep 2003, 14:09
Originally posted by Trollslayer
Nanites can repair damage in the same way your body repairs damage, only faster. Human cells die very quickly - there isn't anything that can change that. Putting nanites into the equation and shoving it on a setting like DX, however, may make it so the nanites not only repair cells faster, but may increase their longevity, but i doubt its by much. In fact the example of the Regen aug is the same - they heal, they don't extend duration (and if they do i don't remember anything about it).



Nanites would not repair damage in the same way as our bodies do. Biological systems cannot determine or target exact location of a problem and fix it. If that were the case, cancer wouldn't exist and viruses wouldn't be able to replicate in our cells.
Also, although cells die, they are immediately replaced by new ones. The problem is that the number of times cells can replicate is limited by the DNA replication process. At the end of the chromosomes are strings of DNA that don't actually code for anything, but small parts of these strings are lost each time genetic material is replicated. Once these strings are depleted, vital genes are lost and that's where the problems occur. It's like a biological fuse and limits our lifespan. Nanites would be able to reassemble these strings in each cell, removing this problem as a limiting factor.

Trollslayer
28th Sep 2003, 15:15
Originally posted by Don
Nanites would not repair damage in the same way as our bodies do. Biological systems cannot determine or target exact location of a problem and fix it. If that were the case, cancer wouldn't exist and viruses wouldn't be able to replicate in our cells.

I think you misunderstood here. Whenever a person is injured, in situations like DX - bullet wounds, knife stabs (so obviously there won't be viruses or cancer), the regenerating nanites speed up healing. No, nanites do not behave like a body, but they behave like white blood cells, only faster, in this example. When you have that kind of injury, the white blood cells help fight infections and aid in the immunization process - the regeneration augmentation does the same. The primary function of white cells is to heal wounds, and they carry proteins - lymphocytes, monocytes, neutrophils, eosinophils, and leukocytes. The nanites contained in the Regen augmentation are, quote from the game, "Programmable polymerase automatically directs construction of proteins in injured cells". Hence they do the same as white blood cells when it comes to blood clotting and wound healing, only faster.

Don
29th Sep 2003, 15:42
I simply stated cancer and virus replication to make a point. White blood cells do not heal damaged tissue, this is done by replacing dead or damaged cells by replicating surrounding cells. The necessary proteins are present in the blood anyway. Nanites could facilitate this in many ways.
The primary functions of white bloods cells are to detect and destroy pathogens, in any shape or form. Platelettes and certain proteins are responsible for clotting, it has nothing to do with white blood cells. In fact, in many cases, white blood cells hinder healing (heared of emphisema?).
Anyway, it would be easier to prevent these wounds from occuring in the first place by reinforcing tissues, but that's another topic.

TehFreak
29th Sep 2003, 16:18
btw; lymphocytes are a type of white blood cell (not proteins), the other being phagocytes
also, healing flesh takes a little more than just some proteins

Trollslayer
29th Sep 2003, 16:28
Originally posted by TehFreak
btw; lymphocytes are a type of white blood cell (not proteins), the other being phagocytes
also, healing flesh takes a little more than just some proteins

Tell that to Warren Spector ;)

TehFreak
29th Sep 2003, 16:30
hell no, i lived for the regen! (or maybe because of the regen ;)

lucabrasi
29th Sep 2003, 23:21
uuhh... you guys do know this is a computer game.....right?

Trollslayer
30th Sep 2003, 00:00
Damn i thought this was a real-life simulation with added head to head virtual reality 3d in your face wireless polka functionality! That could also make toast with hyperlinks!!!

...






Sarcasm. Probably not the best, but an explanation for the slow-witted is always a good thing.

Le`Sauveur`De`Ces`Dames
30th Sep 2003, 07:24
/* gives his signature to Trollslayer */

(just for one use, I might have use for it later)

/* Edit : spelling */

Trollslayer
30th Sep 2003, 07:31
LOL :D

angrysquirrel
30th Sep 2003, 11:26
Originally posted by Trollslayer
Thats not "retarded". Since you played DX1, here's a question - did you call the designers retarded for having JC use a diferent voice when he merged with Helios? Really doubt that. Furthermore the sequel happens somewhere in the future. People eventually get old. The voice tone usually changes. Having an older person have the same voice they had when they were younger is actually the "retarded" decision. If they mature, more than likely the voices mature.

Oh, and, i disagree.

I totally agree with sheraz_ali19. First, it wasn't as if 20 years had gone by since the actor did his voiceovers for dx1. His voice is not going to change that much. Second, JC's voice changing when he merged with the computer is IRRELEVANT. The posters point is that the same actors should be used in dx 1 to keep the immersion level going from the prior series. I don't want some guy who's voice sounds like a "freak on a leash" playing JC denton. The other actor's voice sounded good. Keep the voices consistant.

With that being said, I'm sure DX2 will be "dumbed down" like most other games being presently released, and I will be dissapointed. I'll be very suprised if they keep the same features that the first one had, and add additional features.

You'll likely see a game with more eye candy, but a simpler interface with less features.

Le`Sauveur`De`Ces`Dames
30th Sep 2003, 12:00
With that being said, I'm sure DX2 will be "dumbed down" like most other games being presently released, and I will be dissapointed. I'll be very suprised if they keep the same features that the first one had, and add additional features.

You'll likely see a game with more eye candy, but a simpler interface with less features.


mouarf ouarf ouarf ( I should ask for one dollar each time I read this, I could buy the game 10 times)

Trollslayer
30th Sep 2003, 12:23
Originally posted by angrysquirrel
I totally agree with sheraz_ali19. First, it wasn't as if 20 years had gone by since the actor did his voiceovers for dx1. His voice is not going to change that much. Second, JC's voice changing when he merged with the computer is IRRELEVANT. The posters point is that the same actors should be used in dx 1 to keep the immersion level going from the prior series. I don't want some guy who's voice sounds like a "freak on a leash" playing JC denton. The other actor's voice sounded good. Keep the voices consistant.

Irrelevant? I see. So we should be consistant with the voice acting, but now with how the voices sound.

*jots down information*


With that being said, I'm sure DX2 will be "dumbed down" like most other games being presently released, and I will be dissapointed. I'll be very suprised if they keep the same features that the first one had, and add additional features.

You'll likely see a game with more eye candy, but a simpler interface with less features.

Well then that means there's one less game for you to worry about, aye?

I wish i had the same precognitive powers as everyone who says they know that DX:IW will be dumbed down. But im not one of the lucky legion. Oh well i'm happy enough with my own version of precognition, which is knowing when something is dumb before the thing itself knows.

AlteredGlyph
30th Sep 2003, 15:27
Originally posted by Le`Sauveur`De`Ces`Dames
mouarf ouarf ouarf ( I should ask for one dollar each time I read this, I could buy the game 10 times)

You know, I think you are absolutely correct. And now a note to Angrysquirrel:
Have you read ANY interviews with Warren Spector? or any DX2 previews? They almost ALL say that they are NOt dumbing it down they are making it more ACCESIBLE, so you don't have to navigate through three layers of menus to do anything. The only indication I have seen that it will be even slightly dumbed down is that there will be only one ammo type. Other than that though ,there is no evidence that it will be dumbed down. Wait for the actual game to come out before you make predictions. Once again, this game is not being dumbed down, if any of the previews are to be believed, that is.

TehFreak
30th Sep 2003, 16:28
they're hardly going to admit to making the game ****, are they?
me, i'll just wait until i get a review

Trollslayer
30th Sep 2003, 16:38
Originally posted by TehFreak
they're hardly going to admit to making the game ****, are they?
me, i'll just wait until i get a review

This is Warren Spector we're talking about. I've yet to see him not be honest and self-critical when it comes to his games.

AlteredGlyph
30th Sep 2003, 18:20
And you can't forget the hands-on previews. They all said the game was great. Not one complaint about it being dumbed down.

TehFreak
30th Sep 2003, 20:02
how many of you actually read gaming magazines and look at the previews? they tend to focus on the good points and their hopes for the game, not the less glamorous side of things. hell, even daikatana got good previews. now that is one scary thought...

Trollslayer
30th Sep 2003, 21:39
Originally posted by TehFreak
how many of you actually read gaming magazines and look at the previews? they tend to focus on the good points and their hopes for the game, not the less glamorous side of things. hell, even daikatana got good previews. now that is one scary thought...

[Disclaimer: Aimed at no one in particular]

Ah i see. And what exactly are the less glamorous points? Most people's view of bad points amount to childish complains of how the sequel isn't like the original, or "they took X feature which i liked! bwaaaa!". The only bad aspect of the game so far was the goddamn lagginess of the Xbox version and one or two AI related things :eek: "OMG instant crap!"... :rolleyes: The game is being worked on, things are getting fixed, and as many problems as this AI will get, it'll certainly be hundreds of times better the DX1 AI which had moments of pure blindness and superhearing!

So i say again to the whole goddamn world, present valid bad points based on factual knowledge as to why the game will be bad, or else be silent and go die far!!!!! GAAAWD!!!

*ulcer explodes*

*collapses*

sneelock
30th Sep 2003, 23:05
Why Do People Say That Jc's Voice Has Changed?

the new characters name is alex and he/she has a different voice than JC.

Jc's voice is done by the same person as dx1.

jc's voice is not changed so the point is irrelevant.

IMHO i think that most of the people on this forum, do not read the previous posts in the threads.

Random
1st Oct 2003, 00:48
Originally posted by sneelock
Why Do People Say That Jc's Voice Has Changed?

the new characters name is alex and he/she has a different voice than JC.

Jc's voice is done by the same person as dx1.

jc's voice is not changed so the point is irrelevant.

IMHO i think that most of the people on this forum, do not read the previous posts in the threads.

Everyone read this post before flaming JC's voice. He is voiced by THE SAME PERSON.


With that being said, I'm sure DX2 will be "dumbed down" like most other games being presently released, and I will be dissapointed. I'll be very suprised if they keep the same features that the first one had, and add additional features.

You'll likely see a game with more eye candy, but a simpler interface with less features.

You haven't read anything about the game, have you? Instead of just assuming the worst, it might be best to read at least one interview/preview.

What features are you talking about that you think will be left out? Biomods (augs), weapon mods, character customising, non-linear approaches to mission goals? They are all in there, and all features are improved. Among the new features is plot-branching, which offers players an insane amount of choice -- so much choice that one previewer said he was overwhelmed by the possibilities. How can something that overwhelmed an experienced gamer possibly be called dumbed down?

Like Trollslayer said, base your criticisms on more than pessimistic assumptions.

angrysquirrel
1st Oct 2003, 03:15
People who think this game won't be dumbed down are on crack. Don't believe the hype. Expect the worst and hope for something average. Read my other posts in other forums. They don't care about your suggestions. The publishers and developers only care about one thing - making a quick buck. If you don't believe this, then you are really naive. You think the fact that someone from the development team said there will be more features? You're insaine. What will you do when you find out his statement is false, sue him? Good luck.

I'll wait until the SHEEP buy the games and ***** about the bugs. Then I'll wait another month or two and see if they address the issues. You'll see a "gratuitous" patch and then...bye bye gamers....we're off to make another quick buck.

It would be interesting to have the time and do a survey on the number and user ID's of people who talk the game up in a forum and then see their responses after the game is released.

Hey, want a good example of the SHEEP following the flock. Check out C&C generals. How many patches did they release. Did they fix anything to do with basic commands like speeding or slowing the game up in single player? Nope. They focussed on "tweaks. More damage or less damage to a unit." Putting in useful commands would require additonal programming. They won't do it.

With that being said, I was very impressed with DX1. I was also impressed when ION STORM made a multiplayer patch for the game. I doubt you'll see the extra effort in this game. (if it is ever released. Another thing the "marketeers" do to get people motivated to buy the game. Just keep dangling that carrot for the end users. Build up momentum...

It's like a movie...and the sheep are in the matrix..... :) (I will not lose the sheep analogy....)

Good luck sheep. I hope the game is released before the game has the sophistication of pong.

AlteredGlyph
1st Oct 2003, 03:36
Well, as the squirrel refuses to be a sheep, I will say the spexial words: Do Not Feed The Trolls. I did, but I think I will stop now, as it doesn't seem to have an effect on their opinions.
That is all.

Trollslayer
1st Oct 2003, 09:44
I prefer dealing with dumbed down games than having to deal with dumbed down people. Which, contrary to an American study which stated people have a tendency to become more intelligent, are more and more prevalent.

Catman
1st Oct 2003, 13:13
Explanation of the phenomena Trollslayer mentions: The amount of available intelligence is a fixed quantity, and the population continues to grow.

http://www1.iastate.edu/~wsthune/cps/ted/tedidea.gif

Le`Sauveur`De`Ces`Dames
1st Oct 2003, 13:38
Originally posted by Catman
Explanation of the phenomena Trollslayer mentions: The amount of available intelligence is a fixed quantity, and the population continues to grow.


I thought Descartes said "intelligence is the best partaged thing on earth (since everyone think he has enough)"

Catman
1st Oct 2003, 14:24
Okay, I'm being damned pretentious here, but: Usually, his opening statement in Discourse on the Method of Rightly Conducting the Reason and Seeking for Truth in the Sciences is translated into English along these lines:
Of all things, good sense is the most fairly distributed: everyone thinks he is so well supplied with it that even those who are the hardest to satisfy in every other respect never desire more of it than they already have.
or

Common sense is the most fairly distributed thing in the world, for each one thinks he is so well-endowed with it that even those who are hardest to satisfy in all other matters are not in the habit of desiring more of it than they already have.
or

Good sense is of all things in the world the most equally distributed, for everybody thinks himself so abundantly provided with it, that even those most difficult to please in all other matters do not commonly desire more of it than they already possess.

I particularly like what follows:

It is unlikely that this is an error on their part; it seems rather to be evidence in support of the view that the power of forming a good judgment and of distinguishing the true from the false, which is properly speaking what is called Good sense or Reason, is by nature equal in all men. Hence too it will show that the diversity of our opinions does not proceed from some men being more rational than others, but solely from the fact that our thoughts pass through diverse channels and the same objects are not considered by all. For to be possessed of good mental powers is not sufficient; the principal matter is to apply them well. The greatest minds are capable of the greatest vices as well as of the greatest virtues and those who proceed very slowly may, provided they always follow the straight road, really advance much faster than those who, though they run, forsake it.

Seems apropos to the current discussion. I just knew those graduate courses in the history of rhetoric would come in handy one day. ;)

Trollslayer
1st Oct 2003, 15:22
:eek:

I am now a proud member of the church of Catman. :cool:

AlteredGlyph
1st Oct 2003, 16:15
Hail Catman!!! Hail Catman!!!:D
*does a little dance in honor of Catman*