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demise88
16th Sep 2003, 21:54
did they even change anything?

i played through the tutorail, but couldn't bare to play anymore thanks to the wonderful control scheme.

i'd just like to thank pyro for completely screwing up thier best franchise by making it point and click and removing hotkeys. please make hotkeys avaible and have them re-mapable like in C2.

i for one will NOT be buying this (or wasting anymore time with it) if the control scheme is not addressed. but i heard the game is already complete, so i guess we'll wait and see on the control.

[PAK]Krwawy Lew
16th Sep 2003, 22:58
Where can i get the new C3 demo?

<Edit> ohh....and if they didn't change the hotkey scheme or make it re-mapeble then i'll be buying this game when it goes down to 20 bucks which won't be so long considering this version seems A Lot worse then anything i've seen lately.
If they don't adress that problem they will not only lose customers but also faith in them from us.
<Edit>

demise88
16th Sep 2003, 23:03
http://www.3dgamers.com/dl/games/commandos3/commandos3_demo.exe.html

http://www.computergames.ro/download.php?optiune=show_download&did=2046

http://www.worthplaying.com/article.php?sid=13015

[PAK]Krwawy Lew
16th Sep 2003, 23:08
Thanks For THe lInks :)

I tried Gamershell but I guess I din't do a good enough search :(

kowboy
17th Sep 2003, 00:53
Doesnt seem like they changed much.

The controls seem more bumbling than before. I click on the german soldier and he runs up a ladder and gets shot. I held down left control so he would punch the solder after he gets off the ladder, but instead he runs up the opposing ladder.

Tergiver
17th Sep 2003, 01:29
I must be retarded cause I cant finish the tutorial mission (yes, the 'Final' Demo, never had the original demo).

I'm supposed to activate the Sapper by pressing '4' or right-clicking on him, but he will not activate.

I've tried restarting, reloading, everything. I cannot activate the sapper.

Curiously I can rope select and '8' select him and give him movement and such commands, but cannot single select him and finish the tutorial.

Mike_B
17th Sep 2003, 05:09
Well I don't know or you've read the preview from gamespy, check here:

http://www.gamespy.com/previews/september03/commandos3pc/

but I think there are hotkeys :D

demise88
17th Sep 2003, 06:11
well technically thier are "hotkeys" in the demo, but none of them are useful. why would i want a next weapon/previous weapon hotkeys when i could just push one key for the knife, or whatever weapon you want?

iakovos
17th Sep 2003, 07:29
Well, if there are some hotkeys for the demo of C3, that means that there will be hotkeys for the full game. Besides how idiotic can Pyro be? ALL previous games relied on hotkeys, making C3 an exception will be catastrophic.

Iakovos:)

[PAK]Krwawy Lew
17th Sep 2003, 08:51
Originally posted by Tergiver
I must be retarded cause I cant finish the tutorial mission (yes, the 'Final' Demo, never had the original demo).

I'm supposed to activate the Sapper by pressing '4' or right-clicking on him, but he will not activate.

I've tried restarting, reloading, everything. I cannot activate the sapper.

Curiously I can rope select and '8' select him and give him movement and such commands, but cannot single select him and finish the tutorial.

neither could I.

But wanna know something really stupid........try using the sniper on the tank. It blows up after like 6-9 shots or something :eek:

Talk about a powerfull sniper rifle

yeah........there are hotkeys, just that they are useless. I'm gonna wait and see til someone buys the full game and what they have to say about it (and no, i don't trust a review by gamespy).

[PAK]Krwawy Lew
17th Sep 2003, 09:05
However, Commandos 3 seems to be even easier to control using keyboard shortcuts. A quote from gayspy reviewer.

Well he/she thought the controls were easier which means they are changed and probably the old configuration is gone.
I can't beleave they took away the ability for us to re-map they keys.



The maps are no longer static puzzles waiting to be solved, they're now dynamically changing battlefields where conditions need to be responded to right away

What?!? Why!?!

this sounds more like a twitch game then a strategy game now. I'm only getting more and more dissapointed. I usually don't whine about games but since I really loved the 3 predacessors I can't help it but to complain about what they have done to The Commandos Genre.

Xcom
17th Sep 2003, 13:22
Originally posted by [PAK]Krwawy Lew
I'm only getting more and more dissapointed. I usually don't whine about games but since I really loved the 3 predacessors I can't help it but to complain about what they have done to The Commandos Genre.

You are not alone. I've become more concerned as well. Not even sure I am going to buy it now. (maybe I am gonna wait til it becomes available for rental. Didn't take too long with the last Tomb Raider)

WeinerMan
17th Sep 2003, 19:11
i refused to play the windowed demo and i just downloaded the new demo and haven't played it yet, but it's beginning to sound like die hard commandos fans are finding C3 a little bitter to the taste. i nominate @m to spend his money on the game before we spend ours then come back here with a full report. anyone second that motion?

<edit>

"This demo is based on final code."

wanted to add that this is on the Avault download page so what you see in the demo may very well be what you get in the game.

" However, Commandos 3 seems to be even easier to control using keyboard shortcuts"
i'm holding out hope that the shortcuts are there but left out of the demo to keep the download size within reason...

Xcom
17th Sep 2003, 19:17
Originally posted by WeinerMan
i nominate @m to spend his money on the game before we spend ours then come back here with a full report. anyone second that motion?


I support this idea. :D

ragsy
18th Sep 2003, 01:42
Originally posted by Xcom
I support this idea. :D


Sounds good to me :D

Mike_B
18th Sep 2003, 05:21
Originally posted by WeinerMan
i nominate @m to spend his money on the game before we spend ours then come back here with a full report.

Fair enough :D

I'll probably have it on the 9th octobre. Game comes in one day before the release date by my shop :D

I'm still convinced that the full C3 game will be totaly different from the demo. It seems that the only thing they changed in the demo is bugfixing... They probably disabled some functions like hotkeys. I mean, if you read the gamespy review the previewer is talking about hotkeys. I'm waiting for the full game to make up my mind, and I'll be glad to share it with you :)

sean1007
18th Sep 2003, 07:42
Originally posted by @m
Well I don't know or you've read the preview from gamespy, check here:

http://www.gamespy.com/previews/september03/commandos3pc/

but I think there are hotkeys :D


Don't you remember posting the interview with perez???

He talked about hot keys...

"TAFN - Why did you choose to relocate the interface? What are the advantages? Are there any changes to it?
Ignacio - There is a number of changes to the interface. The one on screen is a very different one while all keys and functions have changed a lot. The idea was making an interface which was easier and faster to use. We have tried to reduce the number of keys the player has to use making the game more accessible at the same time. You will be able to judge the results by yourself but we are very happy with all the tests we have made with it.

The keys are GONE.... it seems. And since they are HAPPY with the results. well !!!
Sean

Dyre Straits
21st Sep 2003, 06:56
Originally posted by Tergiver
I must be retarded cause I cant finish the tutorial mission (yes, the 'Final' Demo, never had the original demo).

I'm supposed to activate the Sapper by pressing '4' or right-clicking on him, but he will not activate.

I've tried restarting, reloading, everything. I cannot activate the sapper.

Curiously I can rope select and '8' select him and give him movement and such commands, but cannot single select him and finish the tutorial.

This is my current problem exactly!! I've downloaded the 'final' demo and can't use the Sapper at all in the tutorial where he's supposed to use a remote bomb to blow up a tank.

[PAK]Krwawy Lew
21st Sep 2003, 09:54
I'm still holding my thumbs that teh demo was just a big mistake and that the full game will be as easily controlable as C2 and that it will not be a twitch game as they make it sound like.

Gah......I bet Pyro got tierd of C3 and just figured , "wtf........let's just re-map the keys and change the game concept and it will die out and we won't have to make another sequal" :eek:

ragsy
22nd Sep 2003, 03:23
Originally posted by [PAK]Krwawy Lew
Gah......I bet Pyro got tierd of C3 and just figured , "wtf........let's just re-map the keys and change the game concept and it will die out and we won't have to make another sequal" :eek:

very negative attitude but it made me laugh :D

Dyre Straits
22nd Sep 2003, 16:51
Is anyone going to address the problem with not being able to select the Sapper in the demo Tutorial?

WeinerMan
22nd Sep 2003, 23:43
doubt it...the tutorial ends right after the sapper blows up the tank so you're not missing much. as lew says, put 6 or so sniper bullets in it (you've got to be kidding [we ain't!]) and it blows and the tutorial ends.

[PAK]Krwawy Lew
23rd Sep 2003, 01:25
Originally posted by ragsy
very negative attitude but it made me laugh :D

Anything To Amuse :)

But yeah.... I was going for a laugh there.

David
23rd Sep 2003, 03:43
as for me, i dont give a *****e about the controls. you can get used to everything. what matters most is gameplay and all the fun you get from it. damn that is the most lame thing to say that he/she/it ;) wont buy game because of controls. damn newbs!!!!
:mad: :mad: :mad:

[PAK]Krwawy Lew
23rd Sep 2003, 12:52
Originally posted by David
as for me, i dont give a *****e about the controls. you can get used to everything. what matters most is gameplay and all the fun you get from it. damn that is the most lame thing to say that he/she/it ;) wont buy game because of controls. damn newbs!!!!
:mad: :mad: :mad:


Actually.....most of us who dislike the controls are veterans.

So technically you're the newb.........I also bet you're not older then 15 while most of the veterans are over 20 and going upward to 35+ .

The controls are very important, take fps as an example. The first FPS games were only played with a keyboard (Wolfenstein, Doom, Duke Nuke 'Em etc.) but got updated because it worked better with a mouse AND a keyboard. Try playing any FPS today with only a Keyboard adn we'll see how much you'll enjoy that extra feature the developers put in because THEY thought it would be much easier JUST to play with a keyboard.

So next time before you go around calling people , and I quote, "newbs!!!!1111!" take a look at when they first signed up and how long they have been fans to the Commandos Franchise.

Cut A Word And It Shall Bleed

Xcom
23rd Sep 2003, 16:24
Ah, come on. No need to be hostile. I mean we have a deal with veteran @m to check out the game and report on it. It's "no lose" situation for us here. :D

Souto
23rd Sep 2003, 17:40
Hi Krwawy,

I agree that controls are of paramount importance. I think however that your argument is flawed as you talk about the introduction of mouse to complement an FPS (which I agree is of course a great thing). You then go on to say that if a developer were to make a game that only used keys that the user would be greatly disappointed. That is not what has happened in Commandos. The controls haven’t taken a step backwards as the controls that now appear in C3 have never been used before.

The controls in Commandos are also meant to complement the game and are seen as advancement. I think what has happened here is that change amongst the die-hard fans of C3 hasn't been welcomed. I think you will find that the controls aren’t that bad and is just a case of "getting to know them" Also bear in mind that new Commandos players will find that the game is far easier to play as result. Would you begrudge them that?

I would therefore conclude that change is the issue and that anger at change also greeted the introduction of the mouse in FPS play. It took some time before the die-hard FPS community welcomed the mouse.

Cheers,

Souto

WeinerMan
23rd Sep 2003, 19:49
i always laugh at the folks who think their _ _ _ _ doesn't stink cuz they signed up on a forum before i did.... anyway, here are my thoughts.

i'm gonna buy the game because i'm a commandos veteran and i love the idea and i'll get used to the design changes. i don't think i'll like using the mouse as much as i hate "clickfest" games but, like i said, i'll play the game cuz it's my favorite.

now here's what i think is the downside. i think many here will agree that situations were so intense in the original commandos that you didn't have time to find the right places to click. in my mind, there was no way you'd beat the original game(s) without shortcuts. ah, what fun. now, and as Souto alluded to, the game has been made "easier" for all and it makes business sense for Pyro to do it. pisses off the "good old days" boys but that's progress...

David
23rd Sep 2003, 20:58
indeed, you talk (bloody lew) like there is no keyboard usage at all! there is keyboard! for some people it is simplified for some it will look more difficult. as a matter of fact you think everyone found mouse usage good at first? no,and i never played with mouse till Q³ championship in 2000. but when you learned it it opened new doors. i hope same will happen with c3 controls. though it is funny that pople dont talk about gameplay anymore but about controls. everything changes ;) even transition from cbel to cbcod was difficult, and cbcod to c2 was even more difficult. such is life ;) and u need to be more optimistic

xcom is right...you are beeing to hostile for a newb like me, who is fan since 1999. didnt knew about eidos forums much till 2001 though :) had other matters back at ctf ;) ( which i doubt you know what is, nor casablanka ;))

i wonder what makles you think i am 15. :D

Xcom
23rd Sep 2003, 21:35
Originally posted by David
i wonder what makles you think i am 20. :D


All that green color might have smth to do with it. :p

[PAK]Krwawy Lew
23rd Sep 2003, 22:19
There was no hostilety intended (insult perhaps, but no hostility :) ) in my post at all. I just got pissed of that you called people who got hung up on the controls scheme newbies (which most of them are far from it).

And yes....perhaps I gave a bad example with the FPS thingie but I just wrote down something from the top of my mind. And for me Pyro did take a step backwards with their controll scheme. And basically called the customer stupid by changing it and then saying it's "impoved to make it easier".

Now let's talk about gameplay.......I just love the puzzles of The old Commandos games ( the easiest was C2 and the other 2 were the hardest IMHO) and just the general feel of it. This to me has been stripped away (just by playing the demo, I remember playing the demo for BTCOD and just loving it) and I was almost disgusted with what they had done. Now you might start thinking that i'm scared of new ideas and new gaming fronteers but i'm not, I'm just scared that this game will suck big time (couldn't find any better way to say it).

I might still Consider buying it but only after reading a couple of player reviews of it and then being able to make up my mind. And if this means i'm no longer considerd a Die-hard Commandos fan then so be it.

ragsy
24th Sep 2003, 00:34
Originally posted by WeinerMan
i always laugh at the folks who think their _ _ _ _ doesn't stink cuz they signed up on a forum before i did.... anyway, here are my thoughts.

mmm... its a cross between lavendar and roses, thanks for asking :D

WeinerMan
24th Sep 2003, 00:42
...and thanks for sharing

David
24th Sep 2003, 04:34
grrr xcom ;)
actualy when i was writing that paragraph i got pissed of too ;)
you think i like controls...no....but what can we do now. mod ze game :)

anyway of course no game now will be as good as c1 was. ahh, old good times solving greatest puzles of all times..it was like chess! c3 will be like checkers under pressure :) from latest actionvault preview it looks that this game will rock. doing quick actions when you are under forced to take steps very quickly. so you must plan ahead and hope everything will go ok :)
anyway lets wait 20 more days and then will see ;)

Mike_B
24th Sep 2003, 05:25
Hey Souto thanks for your input,

change is not bad at all. I for one am very happy with with the changes that I've seen/read about. The graphics are once again taken to a whole new level, the music is wonderfull, their are different kinds of objectives now, their is a more linair story, interactive maps and so on. Though I think that some things shouldn't be changed, you can call me a veteran or die hard for that :) but I think Pyro should have kept the shortcuts, it's imo the easiest and fastest way to play the game, it's not like it's so hard to learn them and it will alway be easier to press the respective hotkey if you're in trouble and need your gun, coz if I have to click by the time I have it's I'm dead. I haven't played the full game so I don't know how it will be then. Certainly the controls aren't going to stop me from buying C3. C3 is still a wonderfull game and I love to experience it, I'll just take some time to adapt to the new controls. While it seems that everyone is whining about the controls, it's very good to see the other major improvements in the game. The multiplayer has been totaly enchanged and I think that will increase the popularity of C3 even more. Though it's a pity that you still have to use a IP adress, or Gamespy and their isn't an internal server browser with would make it much easier to browse for games. And then you wouln't need to pay if you don't want to see ads.

Again my views are mostly from reading previews, interviews, watching trailers, screenshots, and playing the sp demo (which I'm sure is nothing compared to the full game) so I can't wait to get my hands on the full game and share my views here.

[PAK]Krwawy Lew
24th Sep 2003, 07:54
Originally posted by @m
Though it's a pity that you still have to use a IP adress, or Gamespy and their isn't an internal server browser with would make it much easier to browse for games. And then you wouln't need to pay if you don't want to see ads.



Yup.....I've been boycotting Gayspy for over 2 years now. I refuse to use a product that bombards me with useless (and quite disturbing, for a perioid they had adds for Playboy) adds all the time.

Again....the internal Game browser is only a minor problem that i'd be able to live with.