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s-a-smith
16th Sep 2003, 17:06
I love DX1 but what I find most irritating is how dark it always seems to be. I know that's atmosphere and so on but what about 'Accessibility'?

I can just about see what's going on with 100% brightness. My dad, who would love to play, has no chance.

So what about a accessibility options or daylight missions?

Doesn't anyone else have a problem with this?

TehFreak
16th Sep 2003, 17:20
i didn't really have a problem with the lighting. at least it made it easier to hide....
anyway, the turning brightness both in game and on the monitor should make it bright enough for anyone..

Trevion
16th Sep 2003, 18:30
DX2 apparently has plenty of daylight missions planned.

I didn't find the lighting that obnoxious -- I wonder if your monitor has gotten a little dark? I had an old CRT that had gotten so dark that most games were unplayable by the time I replaced it...

Godwin
17th Sep 2003, 13:27
heh, DX made it seem as if the whole game happened in one night

and yea, there seems to be some daylight missions in IW, but the darkness in DX1 wasnt that dark anyway

does your father have vision problems? it sounds as if he does

El Padrino
17th Sep 2003, 20:54
If I had the power to change one thing about DX2, it wouldn't be including a skill system, or bigger levels, or anything else some people seem to be worrying over. No, I would make every level at night, just like the good old days. That's the one change I don't like. Oh well.

Random
18th Sep 2003, 00:20
Most levels probably still will be at night, and the daytime ones probably take place indoors. ;)

Le`Sauveur`De`Ces`Dames
18th Sep 2003, 09:34
there were plenty of daylight in DX1, it's just to bad you weren't outside (or conscious) to see it.

Merces Letifer
18th Sep 2003, 20:22
Deus Ex was a dark game, and dark environments only add to the mood.

soeren
18th Sep 2003, 22:20
Accessibility options
You mean like a day/night switch? I don't think it would be a cool idea to play a mission - which is thoroughly designed as a night mission - during in-game daytime.

Le`Sauveur`De`Ces`Dames
19th Sep 2003, 07:40
or maybe accessibility options means a way to adjust the Gamma Level of your monitor...

pooch
19th Sep 2003, 18:44
I would personally like to see a game utilize your computer's internal clock to determine the brightness of the game. Obviously, when you are in a windowless indoor environment the game will play by the internal lighting schematic. But if you are in a room with windows it would be cool to see the sunlight if you play in the daytime, and the moonlight if you play at night. I also think this brings up another point. The moon should cast light on the environment at night - it does in real life, and would be easy to write into the code. This would add some replay value since it would be cool to see the same environment in it's phases of dawn-to-dusk.

Merces Letifer
19th Sep 2003, 22:10
The clocks in Mafia were synchronized with your computer clock, so its possible.

link84
20th Sep 2003, 23:38
Originally posted by Merces Letifer
Deus Ex was a dark game, and dark environments only add to the mood.
yea i felt it was much more fun this way cause i mean comeon can you see going through hells kitchen seeing all of those ppl suffering on a cheerful spring morning

**** no thats why its better dark

eschewing_gum
21st Sep 2003, 15:57
Need Tacos.

soeren
22nd Sep 2003, 10:30
Originally posted by pooch
I would personally like to see a game utilize your computer's internal clock to determine the brightness of the game. Obviously, when you are in a windowless indoor environment the game will play by the internal lighting schematic. But if you are in a room with windows it would be cool to see the sunlight if you play in the daytime, and the moonlight if you play at night. I also think this brings up another point. The moon should cast light on the environment at night - it does in real life, and would be easy to write into the code. This would add some replay value since it would be cool to see the same environment in it's phases of dawn-to-dusk.
That's definately technically possible, it just depends on whether it fits to the game.
I made that suggestion for Stalker a while ago, but was flamed to death for it... but I still think it would be an interesting idea ;)

neostorm
22nd Sep 2003, 11:23
Having The Game In Sync With Real Time Clocks would be a good feature, and add LOTS of extra playability, but it would also add lots of extra coding, 4 the many new situations which could possibly arise.

For example, in many of the levels in DX1, the violence from gangs/triads/terrorists would not be present in a daytime situation, therefore, the creators would in effect need to create at least four different base layouts for each map, according to the timeframe-

Morning
Afternoon
Evening
Late Night

And knowing how DX is, it would be likely that there would be even more than that...



I Agree, it would be a good idea to incorporate, but it would become a very tedious task to create, and would possibly push the game into a Mid-Late 2004 Release...

Le`Sauveur`De`Ces`Dames
23rd Sep 2003, 08:52
even without synchronizing the game clock with your computer's, does anyone know if there will be timed missions in DX:IW? after all, most of your missions in DX1 should have been timed (getting out of the MJ12 base in HK, stopping the missile, etc).

God damn Terrorists
23rd Sep 2003, 20:23
My opinion,if it matters.
The darkness is what made the game feel right,I meen what kind
of stealth missions would you have if you were unable to slip through the shadows to remain unseen,If you want lighting go play Quake3-Besides,it isent DeusEx if your runnin around and its highnoon,now is it?

Le`Sauveur`De`Ces`Dames
24th Sep 2003, 10:56
daylight could be a challenge. after all, trying to infiltrate in broad daylight is a lot more difficult than sneaking at night (especially if you have a black coat

Deus (Seraph)
24th Sep 2003, 17:08
For me, I would like daylight missions. not again this "fleeing from daylight" DX had. I've just had enough of this "a dark athmosphere needs 24 hours night" - I think it must be possible to bring this athmosphere into the daylight.
It's the same thing often made with music: there is athmospheric situation music, instead of environmental music. For example if gang attacks a bar, in which they are playing nice, friendly music - as soon as they start shooting everyone in most films and games the music would change to a dark theme. But why? There should still be that nice, friendly music - unliving things don't care about the happenings around.
The same way the sun doesn'T care whats happening down on earth. Just think about the feeling it would have if it's light around you, the sun shines bright - and you are still having this feeling - something could be around the corner. Fear in the darkness is "normal"! Fear in the daylight - makes you desperate!

coldblue
24th Sep 2003, 21:47
The idea that environment reflects the mood of a story actually has a technical name - "pathetic fallacy." As you can tell by the name, its discouraged by elite literate types. But the truth is, appropriate music goes a long way towards involving a viewer or a player. So does an appropriate setting. Its not always rational, but it works really well. Or why do you think Max Payne was such an enjoyable game? OK, besides the bullet time.

TehFreak
24th Sep 2003, 21:54
and the jackhammer?

Xcom
24th Sep 2003, 23:49
Originally posted by neostorm
Having The Game In Sync With Real Time Clocks would be a good feature, and add LOTS of extra playability,

And LOTS of frustration too.

cball05
25th Sep 2003, 00:39
Having the game sync with the clock causes a lot of problems. For example:
1) You save the game at 3:00 and then start playing again at 9:00. Does the sun suddenly dive towards the horizon?
2) You want to play the game in the afternoon, but you also want to be stealthy. You'd probably just end up screwing with your computer clock to simulate the environment you want.
3) If there are untimed missions, as in DX1, the passing of time could create problems - i.e. with the killswitch thing in DX1 if the sun rose and set a few times then it would be hard to believe that 24 hours had not passed.

Not that it wouldn't be cool, but it would create a lot of bugs.

Fest1984
25th Sep 2003, 05:36
Yes sounds like an GFX card setting not ingame problem.. have u tried going to GFX options in the game and raisiong brightness etc..

if that doesnt work go to ure desktop and alter the gamma
+ tiny bit of brightness and try that.

U will find its where ure monitor is bit old and dark, i had same problem till i got nice new 1

jaeger
28th Sep 2003, 09:37
The constant darkness was one of the most appealing things about the first game...and the little hint of sunrise at the end.

illicituprising
28th Sep 2003, 09:41
Surely the amount of light depends on the type of mission you are on. If it was a sneak in and get some info mission it would be better at night and vice versa. Or maybe realistic time should come into it ie. The longer you take the more lighter/darker it would become.

cball05
28th Sep 2003, 16:49
Along the lines of the time-sync question, I just saw an article about an upcoming Game Boy Advance game (can't remember the title) in which you powered up your in-game weapon through a solar sensor on the game cartridge, so that you get an advantage by playing outside. Interesting...does show that doing some kind of real/game time sync can work.

Trollslayer
28th Sep 2003, 17:02
Originally posted by cball05
Along the lines of the time-sync question, I just saw an article about an upcoming Game Boy Advance game (can't remember the title) in which you powered up your in-game weapon through a solar sensor on the game cartridge, so that you get an advantage by playing outside. Interesting...does show that doing some kind of real/game time sync can work.

:eek:

That's right, it can work. Of course, a better question would be, will it be any good? I mean, Barcode Battler, the Power Glove, 4-way split screens for multi-player games and DDR also worked, if you know what i mean...

crimson_stallion
29th Sep 2003, 04:11
Originally posted by soeren
You mean like a day/night switch? I don't think it would be a cool idea to play a mission - which is thoroughly designed as a night mission - during in-game daytime.

Maybe they could do what Swat3 did. Include a cheat that turns night into day :S lol that had some weird visual effects at times tho.

crimson_stallion
29th Sep 2003, 04:24
Originally posted by Le`Sauveur`De`Ces`Dames
even without synchronizing the game clock with your computer's, does anyone know if there will be timed missions in DX:IW? after all, most of your missions in DX1 should have been timed (getting out of the MJ12 base in HK, stopping the missile, etc).

I sooooo hate time limits on games. With a passion. I like being able to do thigns at my own pace and relax. When I play a game with time limits on levels, it makes me feel rushed, like i dont ahve time to sit around, talk to people, play with taps and flush toilet, throw basketballs at guards, etc. I guess in some cases it would make the game feel more realistic, and possible add adrenaline, but they would have to be VERY careful with implementing it. Most games with time limits just end up getting me Peed off and i end up saying "stuff this". I prefer being able to play with my mind, and you cant really do that when you have to rush rush rush to meet a tim elimit. It would also probably reduce the ability to play stealthily, because a stealthy approach often involved watching enemy patrol patterns, sneaking slowly, waiting for the right moment to attack, etc. I'd prefer no time limits.

I think the whole idea of the game synced to the pc clock, and related changes in lighting, would be a really amazing addition though. It's probalby jsut a matter of time before someone does it. I remember the first time i played a game that did change from day to night etc while playing i was in awe. Cant remember the game but i was jsut like OMG :| . Even if it was a scaled clock, that would be fine. In neverwinter nights there are dynamic time efects, and when you look at the sundials the time actually changes, plus you have dynamic weather etc. IT isnt synchronised to the pc clock, but still works very well. I'd LOVE that in deus ex. In NVN also the events didnt change based on time, only the graphics. This could probably be done this way in Deus ex as well. I cant think of many events that would have bene particularly different in day or night.

When it comes to choosing day or ngiht, anyone played Fallout Tactics? When you choose on your map where you want to go, while travelling the icon thing switches in analogue, from a sun to a moon. In effect, you could modify your path to decide whether to be there in day or night.

I think it would be alot of extra work to put in dynamic time and weather for invisible war though. Maybe the next game, or an expansion/mod?

Trollslayer
29th Sep 2003, 08:49
I think pretty much the same as you, crimson_stallion. Though time limits can be fun, if well implemented.

Le`Sauveur`De`Ces`Dames
29th Sep 2003, 10:07
yes, I didn't mean time ALL missions, but a few of them can be interesting:

as I said, the nuclear missile in DX1 should have been timed (in my opinion) : if you know that whatever you do, you can wait and it won't be launched until you go there, it does not give the same feeling I would give if you know that if you do not stop it, it will go in 10 minutes

(for example, you might be less careful, or don't take the time to hide and heal yourself, etc)

even if I usually don't like time limit either, in certain situations, it would reinforce the reality feeling. after all in real life, when an helicopter is stuck in the middle of an ennemy base, the guards don't wait for you to open the gates and allow it to fly away : they launch the military bots, and come with rocket launchers

crimson_stallion
30th Sep 2003, 07:02
Originally posted by Le`Sauveur`De`Ces`Dames
yes, I didn't mean time ALL missions, but a few of them can be interesting:

as I said, the nuclear missile in DX1 should have been timed (in my opinion) : if you know that whatever you do, you can wait and it won't be launched until you go there, it does not give the same feeling I would give if you know that if you do not stop it, it will go in 10 minutes

(for example, you might be less careful, or don't take the time to hide and heal yourself, etc)

even if I usually don't like time limit either, in certain situations, it would reinforce the reality feeling. after all in real life, when an helicopter is stuck in the middle of an ennemy base, the guards don't wait for you to open the gates and allow it to fly away : they launch the military bots, and come with rocket launchers

Yeah, I agree it would in some cases add to atmosphere. It woudlnt bother me as long as they put it in carefully without making it aggrivating.

auric
8th Oct 2003, 12:16
Syncronising with real time for day & night is a bad idea.

Can you imagine playing at night then continue later tomorrow morning & wow the sun is up & you've been exposed when the area u were in was dark suddenly turns bright.

& who would think a mission would last day, night, day, night so fast. It just brings the oddness.

In DX 1, yeah I can believe that the 1st few missions before Honkong is just 1 night, cause in reality, you won't be messing around finding secrets & stuffs right, He'd just head to the prime target & let Gunther handle the assault.

Then when going to Hong kong its getting day in NewYork, so when reach to Hong Kong its night again. & so on & so on, & if I'm not mistaken, at Vendenburg, it was evening right? dark but can see some red in the sky.

oh well, hope you guys still come to this post to read this. :)

illicituprising
8th Oct 2003, 17:56
I can see where you are coming from realistic time in that sense would be weird. However if the mission was set at a certain time then maybe the amount of time that was spent doing the mission could affect how light it was instead of it reacting to the time on your pc. This could maybe be displayed on completion of the game and could be an incentive to hurry up or slow down dependent on what you require later on.

Just a suggestion.

Trollslayer
8th Oct 2003, 18:40
Originally posted by auric
[B]Syncronising with real time for day & night is a bad idea.

Can you imagine playing at night then continue later tomorrow morning & wow the sun is up & you've been exposed when the area u were in was dark suddenly turns bright.

& who would think a mission would last day, night, day, night so fast. It just brings the oddness.

Having a day/night cycle dependant of your computer clock can be a good idea. Im sure its quite possible with the technology there is today to have the game halt the time cycle if the times change, meaning it can allow to keep on playing in night time, until you finish it; but the next level can be adjusted to daytime because its the first time you're starting it. Not that its a particular difficult piece of coding to add, mind you; its just that there's pretty much a workaround for this kind of thing nowadays.

The question is, is a night/day cycle good fro DX? I personally think it can work, but don't consider it necessarily a good idea. DX worked quite well, and one of the factors was the nightime the majority of times, as it added to the feeling of oppressive dread in the world.

Le`Sauveur`De`Ces`Dames
9th Oct 2003, 10:28
The question is, is a night/day cycle good fro DX? I personally think it can work, but don't consider it necessarily a good idea. DX worked quite well, and one of the factors was the nightime the majority of times, as it added to the feeling of oppressive dread in the world.

yes, like in the movie Blade Runner.
in the future, it is always dark, and it's raining


and after all, how do you know there were no daytime missions in DX1? there WERE (the weather was just VERY cloudy, and with the pollution, light can't go through)

Trollslayer
9th Oct 2003, 10:58
Originally posted by Le`Sauveur`De`Ces`Dames
yes, like in the movie Blade Runner.
in the future, it is always dark, and it's raining


and after all, how do you know there were no daytime missions in DX1? there WERE (the weather was just VERY cloudy, and with the pollution, light can't go through)

I don't know. Then again i didn't said it.

*points to his post*


Originally posted by Trollslayer
DX worked quite well, and one of the factors was the nightime the ->majority of times<-, as it added to the feeling of oppressive dread in the world.[/b]

Moving on :cool:

Im reminded of Gibson's Neuromancer, where some citites had a sort of dome around them, and people only watched recorded footage of the sky being played on the dome' screens. Ocasionally the domes would get some static, a break in the transmission, before playing the footage again.

Seems interesting to apply in DX:IW. After all, if the global communications were shut down, we could theorize that nuclear superpowers went haywire and decided to go for preemptive strikes, making some part of the planet unbearable, thus a need for domes for protection against background radiation, and the use of air filtering.

auric
9th Oct 2003, 11:44
In this case I agree with you, it may be fun, sort of but not nesseccary.

Even in the Matrix world is all darkened by humans handiwork. Not that it do much of a good. The bots just use humans as food as a replacement for sunlight.

I wonder, if the bots do win over humanity, would they go on outside to the stars?

Amazon Warrior
9th Oct 2003, 20:31
Then when going to Hong kong its getting day in NewYork, so when reach to Hong Kong its night again. & so on & so on, & if I'm not mistaken, at Vendenburg, it was evening right? dark but can see some red in the sky.

I remember lining that up with my compass to try and work out if it was morning or evening, but given that the sun is rising (or setting) in the north (as I recall), it's quite hard to tell! Possibly in the near future, the earth's orbit and angle of tilt relative to the sun is altered somehow... :cool:

Thing is, in DX, like Thief before it, there's probably a good reason for most of the missions being night-based. I mean, who's going to knock over some baron's mansion in broad daylight? Too much activity, alert guards, high probability of being seen due to lack of dark shadows to hide in... No invisibilty gem to tell you how visible you are, either.

However, maybe in DX:IW, the daylight levels will be ones involving more 'walking and talking' than all-out sneaking, attack-and-run tactics. Like fr'instance in Hong Kong, a lot of what you did there was just 'go here, talk to X, go there, look at Y', most of which could have occurred during the day. I was also under the impression, when I first played the game, that I was under the threat of my kill switch running out of time and killing me, so I did try to do everthig quite quickly to begin with. Then I realised that the 'switch' was effectively an idea, not a reality, and I was actually vaguely disappointed, since it would have felt more appropriate to be under a time constraint when locating Tracer.

auric
10th Oct 2003, 01:58
Maybe they should add a new difficulty, easy - Realistic stays the same.

But add a suicide difficulty, where all your missions are day time.

At least theres a reason for a :cool: sunglasses, too bad Alex don't wear 1.

So bassically, in suicide difficulty theres barely any place to hide.

:)

Le`Sauveur`De`Ces`Dames
10th Oct 2003, 13:44
and thinking of it, not only is it harder to sneak by day, since hiding is harer, but guards are more aware, and there are a LOT more persons on the street and in the buildings

(remember Versalife in HK? on developper at a desk, asking you to kill the supervisor. do you really think you could have done it in a crowded place?)

therefore, I don't think the daytime episode in Cairo (if there is one, I haven't found the reference yet), will be about sneaking (I hope so, at least). maybe just detective work, talking with people, etc

/* EDIT : grammar, spelling, etc */

/* EDIT 2 : wow, I just repeated what amazon warrior said before. */

Catman
10th Oct 2003, 13:48
Originally posted by Amazon Warrior
I remember lining that up with my compass to try and work out if it was morning or evening, but given that the sun is rising (or setting) in the north (as I recall), it's quite hard to tell! Possibly in the near future, the earth's orbit and angle of tilt relative to the sun is altered somehow... :cool:In the old ISBB, one person attributed the red sky in the north to folks in Canada burning their copies of Daikatana ... ;)

Le`Sauveur`De`Ces`Dames
10th Oct 2003, 14:16
maybe the daylight in DX:IW comes from people burnig their hacked version of HL2. or the hackers...

cball05
10th Oct 2003, 19:50
Originally posted by Le`Sauveur`De`Ces`Dames
(remember Versalife in HK? on developper at a desk, asking you to kill the supervisor. do you really think you could have done it in a crowded place?)

So we'd have to kill all 200 employees?
(Chuckles evilly)

Trollslayer
10th Oct 2003, 19:54
2 words: tear gas. While the 200 civilians went blind you killed the target.

Amazon Warrior
10th Oct 2003, 23:17
/* EDIT 2 : wow, I just repeated what amazon warrior said before. */
:p Great minds think alike.

cball05
11th Oct 2003, 02:49
Originally posted by Trollslayer
2 words: tear gas. While the 200 civilians went blind you killed the target.

Sounds like a great Deus Ex mission, cause you could use:
1) Stealth- Not kill the guy and find another way around
2) Shooter- Kill all of the civilians
3) Hacker- Hack into the computer and release tear gas through the ventilation system, blinding the workers and giving you time to eliminate the target

auric
11th Oct 2003, 10:50
More possibilities,

1. Hide in the vent where he walks to & snipe him from there, infront of other people for those who dislikes him can be greatful. :D & scared at the same time, then just wait till things cleared, then make your move as innocent as possible.

2. If I recall correctly he sometimes walk to areas most definately no one around, kill him there then hide him.

3. If its day time, surely the developers would add an extra talk to him to ask him to go somewhere quiet. Or something like that. Like he's office if he has one. Or convince him to go to the lab with u, kill him in the elavator.