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Huntress
16th Sep 2003, 10:34
Oh my lawd...I just saw some wallpapers from the German site referenced at Planet Deus Ex. This is getting to be very disappointing...he looks like one of those punkers :( Why did they have to do that? And then the fem, although they put clothes on her, made it so that it doesn't look like she's got anything on either! Crap! I'm getting less enthused about this game...even Spector says they made the maps smaller due to the console version but denies they did anything different to the PC game because of the console...? Sounds a little contradictory to me. Says a larger map doesn't mean a better game...well yes at the base of that statement it would be true...but on the other hand a larger more complicated map that's interesting to investigate and find more interesting things to do along the way certainly makes a more interesting game to play IMHO.

That's one element I enjoyed about Deus EX...all the interesting diverse places to find and what was to be found in them. I don't think smaller maps as such is going to give that same gameplay feel...that this was made for the PC gamer and not just a conversion from the Xbox :( Sorry Warren but I think this is going to be much less than what I was hoping for! Probably my opinion doesn't mean diddely...but there it is anyway!

Ta and Good Hunting!

Le`Sauveur`De`Ces`Dames
16th Sep 2003, 11:22
but on the other hand a larger more complicated map that's interesting to investigate and find more interesting things to do along the way certainly makes a more interesting game to play IMHO.

you can make a bigger map by adding several smaller maps (like it was already done in DX1)

and smaller maps also means shorter loading time between maps.

he didn't say smaller areas

Huntress
16th Sep 2003, 11:48
As far as I could tell, that's exactly what he meant even if he didn't say it directly but certainly illuded to it. I wish I could give the quote where I read it from...but he basically did say that. The maps were made smaller and didn't feel they needed to be as large as could have been made via a PC but they were making it for both the PC and the Console at the same time and therefore, they made the maps smaller due to the console.

As far as load times, well that's all in the coding. I didn't find the load times to be extreme and I have it on a pretty basic machine. It's on a Preserio with a K6-2/380 that I changed the vid chip to a vid card (VD3/3000 PCI) and added another 64mgs of RAM for a total of 128 basically. As an example of load times, I have games that reload almost instantly while others take longer because of their engines/codes...not necessarily because of the size of the maps...so I cannot agree with that premise.

Anyway, probably Catman will end up moving this since it's more of a discussion about DX II rather than DX I :) I just happened to come back over to this board after seeing those wallpapers I mentioned and just went ahead and started posting my feelings about them, etc. So I'll let it go for now. Ta and Good Hunting!

Catman
16th Sep 2003, 12:43
She read my mind. :D

blackeye
16th Sep 2003, 23:45
and then i thought after seeing those wallpapers:

"yeah i'm sure which gender i want to play frist in DX:IW :D"

in my opinion she looks absolutely gorgeous and kind of mysterious ... i'd love to see her in all the 'talk and other 3th person' scenes !

Random
17th Sep 2003, 01:20
I don't think Alex looks quite as porcelain as he does on that wallpaper. It's not the in-game model after all, and I'm not even sure that's an official wallpaper. You can see both Alexes in the GameStar E3 video, and he looks fine to me.

Here's the quote on map sizes:


GameSpy: So you wouldn't say that any limitations of the Xbox hardware altered the PC version at all, except perhaps, for the size of maps?

Spector: You know, if we had gone out of our way to do PC only, maybe we would have built bigger maps. Maybe we would have gone with higher resolution textures. Maybe. Fundamentally, does that make the game any more fun to play? I don't think it does. There are a lot of people over the years who think big, open areas to explore are the secret to gameplay. I think it's kind of a waste of time. I mean, it's all the stuff people cut past in movies. For us, we made the maps the size they are to meet our gameplay goals, not to meet a piece of hardware's capabilities. So no, I don't think players are going to have any problems at all with size of maps or the way the game looks. I think both platforms are well served.

DX1's maps were pretty huge, so 'smaller' maps doesn't necessarily mean you'll only walk 10 metres before a transition. Besides, running around Liberty Island for half an hour to get anywhere wasn't fun for me. A level with more action compacted into a smaller space is more appealing.

Then there's that quote from Dr Loomis which specifically says the maps are not smaller than in DX1 anyway, so ...

Also, like Le`Sauveur said, it doesn't mean there are smaller areas. Lower Seattle is apparently composed of 13 maps. I think there's an Upper Seattle too, so those 13 maps might only be for a single sub-location. Something tells me there will be plenty to explore.

But let's not let the fact that none of us have played it prevent us from complaining. ;)

Picasso
17th Sep 2003, 01:36
In one of the recent previews (at gamespy, I believe) a DX2 designer said that you could visit anywhere between all thirteen or only three of the lower Seattle maps, depending on what you want to do. That's a lot of completely optional sidequests and exploration, especially considering that there's an upper Seattle, and (I think 5) other cities you explore before finishing the game. And then there's the three times as much dialogue as there was in DX.

I really don't think that there's going to be a lack of stuff to do.

Like Random said, I don't think that smaller level sizes is a bad thing. In DX, for example, I think it would have been much cooler if the Paris city level were only half that size, but you could enter and explore every level of every building. Less time running around and more time playing around.

AlteredGlyph
17th Sep 2003, 04:29
And, actually on topic, there are 6 different Alexes, not 2. Prolly 3 female, 3 male, but it could be diffrent.

PDenton
17th Sep 2003, 07:12
Originally posted by Random
Also, like Le`Sauveur said, it doesn't mean there are smaller areas. Lower Seattle is apparently composed of 13 maps. I think there's an Upper Seattle too, so those 13 maps might only be for a single sub-location. Something tells me there will be plenty to explore.
Surely having 13 smaller maps to go around one area will mean that you have to constanltly change over maps. I mean my computer isn't the fastest so it will take me ages to get anywhere!:mad:

Le`Sauveur`De`Ces`Dames
17th Sep 2003, 07:37
if the maps are not bigger than in DX1, you can compare the loading time.

it should even be faster, since I guess they must have had the time to optimize the loading process.

Picasso
17th Sep 2003, 09:25
Surely having 13 smaller maps to go around one area will mean that you have to constanltly change over maps. I mean my computer isn't the fastest so it will take me ages to get anywhere!

Wow, way to jump to conclusions!

We don't know jack about level transitions yet. Maybe there will be long loading times, like there were in DX. Maybe there will be split-second transitions like Half-Life or Halo. We don't know.

So, until we actually know, there's no point in rambling about how crappily DX2 will run, is there?

Le`Sauveur`De`Ces`Dames
17th Sep 2003, 10:17
So, until we actually know, there's no point in rambling about how crappily DX2 will run, is there?

I'm SURE I have already read that

Godwin
17th Sep 2003, 13:34
Originally posted by Huntress
And then the fem, although they put clothes on her, made it so that it doesn't look like she's got anything on either!

you have a problem with skin-hugging tight fitting clothes? what exactly is your complaint?

Le`Sauveur`De`Ces`Dames
17th Sep 2003, 13:45
as a Woman, she might not be as interested as us men in women with tight clothes.

maybe if the male denton wore something tighter...

/me in macho-man mode

Picasso
17th Sep 2003, 19:31
I'm SURE I have already read that

Apparently he hadn't.

Jock
18th Sep 2003, 03:57
I cant wait to roam about in my hometown (now 2 hours away) in Deus Ex 2. :D

Huntress
18th Sep 2003, 23:11
Well I seemed to have struck up a little conversation here...soooo

Yes your absolutely right regarding the "wearing of ultra tight clothing" to get the "male" hormones running! Even the girl in Unreal II was pretty revealing...bust and all! Unfortunately since gaming is still a male dominated industry (action/shooters) they (devs) seem to feel they have to make the fems sexy to make the game more appealing to the male gender. :( Nuff said.

As far as the maps...the quote referenced from GameSpy's interview...shows very well in Spector's first few sentences...they adapted for the Console capabilities not the PC. I do not jump to conclusions but try to keep an open mind and read various articles about the games I'm interested in. I didn't say I was giving up yet or not want to buy...what I said, was that I was becoming less enthused...only time will tell and hopefully a demo to allow me to completely make my own mind up. I'm not trying to influence anyone else...just offering my own opinion of what I've seen and read so far :) Ta and Good Hunting!

blackeye
19th Sep 2003, 00:53
*looks: in my opinion the man looks pretty cool too, and about the lady: i don't want her to be naked or even 'revealing', but i like it when she looks good and i hope she has a nice voice also (same goes for the male and in fact for every aspect of the game), to say that it will turn me (us) on would going to far and that is certainly not a reason why we want to play this game ...

since we will probably have to choose the character early (or even beginning) in the game, we can only base us on how they look (unless they have some bio or special features along with every type), so generally we will choose something we think looks nice, you wouldn’t wanna be looking at something ‘not nice’ the entire game …
sadly this way we skipped the ‘personality part’ in the process of choosing which character we would like to play (in case of alex it’s the same for all of them)
so if you would like us to choose between a nice male who looks like a male and has a nice voice, or a female who looks like the male version of my mother-in-law (just kidding) with a voice of ‘ludgard simons’, nobody would choose the female methinks
(it’s like choosing 16bit colors when you can play 32bit, or stereo when you have 5.1)


*maps: some interesting things about this in a new gamespy interview with harvey smith

"The maps are also split up into smaller chunks for the Xbox, which kind of works out. Like you're walking down the street, you go into the bar, there's a mini map load, and then you're in the bar."
and
"If on the PC I can walk down the street and go into the bar without ever loading the map, but on the Xbox I have to walk down the street, load a map transition to get into the bar"


lol 'ludgard simons' was a female radio host when i was a child and she had a horrible voice ... didn't notice the name 'simons' till i wrote it :D

Le`Sauveur`De`Ces`Dames
19th Sep 2003, 07:38
The maps are also split up into smaller chunks for the Xbox, which kind of works out. Like you're walking down the street, you go into the bar, there's a mini map load, and then you're in the bar. It's a console standard.

(that wone was for Huntress. it comes from the last interview, posted bye Grey Mouser. I think you have read it)

so the maps have NOT been decreased in size BECAUSE OF the Console, since the map is already divided for it


Unfortunately since gaming is still a male dominated industry (action/shooters) they (devs) seem to feel they have to make the fems sexy to make the game more appealing to the male gender

yes, like this (http://www.gamespy.com/comics/dorktower/archive.asp?nextform=viewcomic&id=780)

Lawnboy360
19th Sep 2003, 13:07
Unfortunately since gaming is still a male dominated industry (action/shooters) they (devs) seem to feel they have to make the fems sexy to make the game more appealing to the male gender

Maybe in some case it's the publisher who wants to have a sexy female to put on the box.

Merces Letifer
19th Sep 2003, 22:12
The new cyberpunk look to the game certainly does worry me...

Huntress
22nd Sep 2003, 02:02
Well I'm certainly not opposed to a "nice" looking guy or gal, just don't have to have them pushing the idea of who they are either way. I also would hope they would have very good actor voices as that is more important to me. Yes the gameplay is the most important aspect of it naturally...but I don't care to be looking at an overexposed (dressed or less dressed) character. If the Publishers want to sell more games and get more fems into it...then they need to respect that audience as well seems to me. Actually there are a lot of fems that play these games too, not as many as guys of course...but they are present!

It's only been a token element here and there to make a game with a good fem lead in it. Draken was the really first one I can recall...and I own it and really liked it a lot! I also feel she was represented in a good way to look good but not offensive in the least :) Now as far as Lara in TR...that's offensive in my eyes. No need to have made her breasts so overlarge except to get the guys (who go for that sort of thing) all googley over it! That's the sort of thing I meant!

"If on the PC I can walk down the street and go into the bar without ever loading the map" is the other part of this comment...but actually that part of modifing is not really what I'm concerned about regarding the game or its map sizes...I think it goes further than that but that is the part I need to see what they did. Again, a demo would be very useful in this regard or maybe if they're concerned about releasing one, it could possibly turn off some players???? Hmmmmm?

OK...there it is and I'll still keep an open mind until I can get a better feel for how this game is going to turn out one way or another. Ta and Good Hunting!

mark265
22nd Sep 2003, 04:17
what the hell is wrong with alex? i think both the male and female look really good.