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xarax
30th Aug 2003, 15:02
There were several complaints about "too many" block puzzles in Soul Reaver1. Hence, Soul Reaver2 had very few block puzzles.

My main complaint about the SR1 block puzzles were the repetitive nature of the too many block puzzles in the Silenced Cathedral. In general, block puzzles are fun. Variety is the key for block puzzles. Another interesting subtext is that block puzzles imply enormous strength. Other kinds of puzzles requiring super strength are also fun, and imply that the ancients designed obstacles so that only the saviour (Raziel) could solve them.

I think LoK Defiance should have block puzzles (it's also fun to drop a block on an enemy -- SQUISH!). However, I think all of the puzzles are already defined and implemented, due to the anticipated November release date.

Sarah
30th Aug 2003, 16:12
Block puzzles are acceptable, in 2 formats:
1: A timed block puzzle, preferably in the nature of "find and return the missing pieces to one location, then arrange all the pieces into a cohesive mosiac". If mosaic is not completed in certain amount of time, the blocks all dissolve to new locations, and the hunt begins again.
2: (Can be extension of #1) By arranging the blocks into a certain order, the scene that has just been created with blocks becomes a warp gate, capable of player passing through it and arriving at the scene shown in the mural.
So basically-if it's difficult and sadistic, or magic and practical, I am all for them.
I do think all the plot/game essentials for Defiance have already been nearly written in stone, even if there isn't a November release. It seems like the team started Defiance with a clear vision of what they wanted, and what they would be capable of doing in the given time.

blincoln
30th Aug 2003, 17:53
I doubt we'll see any block puzzles in Defiance. There were several official quotes along the lines of "it doesn't make much sense for this super-powerful character to be pushing blocks around."

I think it would be funny if there was one near the end, though, just for old time's sake.

Matt from Spam Buddies
30th Aug 2003, 18:35
Block puzzles were fun, yes, but they're now a thing in the past. :)

Let it go, man. It's about time Raziel's claws got some rest.
No more block-moving, more booty-kicking. :D

- Matthew

Jubei
30th Aug 2003, 19:01
no they must at least keep a few block puzzles ,even for the nostalga of it!:D

Vampmaster
31st Aug 2003, 15:31
Two of them at the most.

blincoln
31st Aug 2003, 17:11
I would like to see the one that was supposed to be in SR1, and then supposed to be in SR2, where Raziel would pull a block out of the wall and then quickly shift to spectral to freeze it in the air and then use it as a stepping stone. It would almost have to be done as a cinematic though, to get the timing right.

fneh
31st Aug 2003, 19:21
I think there should be a block puzzle at the end and raziel could say something along the lines of "and I thought I left all of these damn things in the future! BAH!"

Sarxis
31st Aug 2003, 20:45
They came up with some magnificent puzzles in SR2. I think the combination of wanting variety, and bigger, badder graphics engines, have allowed the devs to spread their wings more with the puzzles.

But I'm not against a new generation of uber-block puzzles.

Vampmaster
1st Sep 2003, 23:00
I think there should be time based puzzles. Make use of the whole time stands still in spectral thing. And if the elemental Reavers have been replaced with an elemental pulse (phrase copyrighted to me j/k :p) then there should still be use of the elements in puzzles such as attacking a block of ice with a fire combo etc (maybe modify the one in the demo).

Dark God Francisco
2nd Sep 2003, 00:54
Block puzzles are good since they give a element of intelligence not just hack and slash.

Lady Minerva
2nd Sep 2003, 03:04
Originally posted by xarax
I think LoK Defiance should have block puzzles (it's also fun
to drop a block on an enemy -- SQUISH!). However, I think
all of the puzzles are already defined and implemented, due to
the anticipated November release date.

Heh. I tried that once, in the Melchihim area. That poor SOB never knew
what hit him! :p

Omega
2nd Sep 2003, 11:06
Originally posted by blincoln
I would like to see the one that was supposed to be in SR1, and then supposed to be in SR2, where Raziel would pull a block out of the wall and then quickly shift to spectral to freeze it in the air and then use it as a stepping stone. It would almost have to be done as a cinematic though, to get the timing right.

I think one way that this could be done is with a shadow path... such as in the Air Forge, Raziel activates a shadow bridge, runs over and pulls a block out before it dissappears..

That would be cool ;)

I must admit, I loathed the block puzzles in SR1, but only in The Silienced Catherdral - there were just so damned many!

I mean, you just thought you were clear of the last, but there was another ten round the corner to surprise you!

After that though, I didn't mind the ones for the Stone Glyph, the few in the Human Citadel etc etc, or even that one before the Chronoplast Chamber.

xarax
4th Sep 2003, 15:54
Just a nit. In SR1, objects stayed exactly where they were when Raziel shifted to spectral. In SR2, objects in midair *always* fell to the ground before Raziel completed shifting to the spectral. SR2 had no way to freeze objects in midair. I expect that this will be the same in LokDefiance.

xarax
4th Sep 2003, 22:28
The laws of gravity are based on time. Time doesn't pass in the spectral realm.

The "real" explanation is that allowing falling objects to reach the ground before completing the spectral transition solves many issues ("cheats" or "shortcuts") for the puzzles.

The "story" explanation is that Raziel's transition to spectral takes a second or two, and that is enough time for objects to finish falling before Raziel arrives in the spectral.

Omega
5th Sep 2003, 14:11
Thats a good question...

On the way to the human Citadel, we have to shift realms to get to it. How come the water doesn't stop as well?

Vampmaster
5th Sep 2003, 17:36
Because the programmers forgot. :p Maybe it isn't really moving it's just how Raz perceives it. My theory is that there is no matter in the spectral realm. Like how Raz only looks that way because he thinks he should and he only falls because he thinks he should and water only moves because he thinks it should. Although he wouldn't be able to move things in material just by imagining it in spectral because it will just be back to normal when he shifts back.

Vampmaster
6th Sep 2003, 00:05
So it's not a good theory, but it's the best I've got.

Stephenls
6th Sep 2003, 00:19
Originally posted by gehntheberserker
It doens't make much sense that objects float and Raziel doesn't, does it?

Sure it does.

When Raziel is in the spectral and looking at a "floating" object, the object isn't floating. It's on the other side of the wall between the two worlds, and it's falling. However, from the spectral, Raziel can only see the exact moment of the material when he crossed over. Objects appear floating and frozen because of Raziel's perspective -- he's viewing a snapshot of material time, and objects can no more move in that snapshot than they can move in real-life photographs.

Raziel, however, isn't a snapshot. For him, in the spectral, time is passing normally.

The water is a graphics error. Think of it this way -- the video game is a window into Nosgoth, but it's viewed through the filter of human and technological limitations. The water appears to move because the human filter forgot it shouldn't, but it isn't really moving. Similarly, Raziel isn't really a hollow construct of flat triangles with images on them. That's just the one of the limitations of the window through which we observe Nosgoth.