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mark265
30th Aug 2003, 03:43
I heared somewhere that DX2 will Be MUCH shorter than the original?? is this true and what exactly is the length they are aiming to (in hours) ?

Dragosani
30th Aug 2003, 05:15
As I understand it, the main plot will be shorter. So you can complete it in less time than the original. However, there's suppose to be more sub-missions and exploration possible than the original. So if you just go from A to B in the story, it will be shorter. If you want all the background behind A and B, it will be longer.
As for how long? I have no idea, I'm not even sure if I'm right about all that other BS I just said.

TheDerf
30th Aug 2003, 05:42
I read somewhere on this forum that it was 25 hours to complete everything you need to do. So that's 25 hours of going through primary missions, +exploring, +finding different routes, +restarts and whatnot, +side missions.

Picasso
30th Aug 2003, 06:35
You can read commentary (by DrLoomis, a designer on DX2) here (http://www.forumplanet.com/planetdeusex/topic.asp?fid=2757&tid=660681).

The gist of it is that since a good number of people never finished the original, and just found it to be too long, they're going to go for a shorter overall game with more nonlinearity. And of course you can choose which side you want to play on, so levels will play out differently (on different playthroughs) depending on who your allies are, and how you decide to go through the game.

Think about it like this. Take Deus Ex. Remove a few missions (Ocean Lab, Gas Station, whatever). Add a bunch of smaller, optional side-missions (like rescuing Ford Schick beneath Hell's Kitchen). Add more areas to explore (like the apartments in Paris). And add the ability to stay with UNATCO throughout the game. That's the kind of replayability we're looking at.

Random
30th Aug 2003, 07:43
As I understand it, there are four factions you can choose from in DX2 and four endings (one for each, I assume). Because of the branching nature of the plot and the different objectives for each faction, you will have to play through the game four times (seeing new stuff every time) in order to complete everything. So if the 25 hours thing for the main plot is accurate, doing everything in the game will take closer to 100 hours.

mark265
30th Aug 2003, 08:00
Originally posted by TheDerf
I read somewhere on this forum that it was 25 hours to complete everything you need to do. So that's 25 hours of going through primary missions, +exploring, +finding different routes, +restarts and whatnot, +side missions.

so its Not THAT much shorter after all ! i'v read people saying about DX2 will Be MUCH shorter (about half the time!) But beeing 25 hours WITH more replay value (submissions) thats sounds allright..in the saved game timer in the last time i finished DX1 it was reading about 29 hours or so...and that was not a rush-in play but included mostly all possible submissions......

so what is all that b!tching i hear around in different forums about ?:confused:

Picasso
30th Aug 2003, 08:29
People are afraid of change. Have you seen the hissyfits thrown over the skill system removal?

Lawnboy360
30th Aug 2003, 23:14
in the saved game timer in the last time i finished DX1 it was reading about 29 hours or so

Well, I don't know about everyone else, but because the timer doesn't take into account when you die and reload, or the time spent loading or quicksaving (I save often), etc, which is usually taken into account when thinking about the game length, I noticed that when I played for 3 hours the timer "went up" (?) by only 2:15 hours or so. When I finished DX, the timer was at 26 hours, so think I played for about 35 hours.

headbutt
31st Aug 2003, 00:34
there is suppoed to be a wider variety of options in DXIW, the game coulb divide into a variety of sub plots so if you re-start the game and do it in a different way it may seem like an entierly new plot and make the game longer

Machinax
31st Aug 2003, 15:09
Originally posted by Picasso
People are afraid of change. Have you seen the hissyfits thrown over the skill system removal?

Um, no, I haven't... I like the idea of biomods and combining the aug/skill system.

Xenon
31st Aug 2003, 17:00
When I played the game just after an upgrade in 2001 the timer showed 16 hr 38 min. It took me aboout 2 weeks to complete the game.

Picasso
31st Aug 2003, 18:20
Originally posted by Machinax
Um, no, I haven't... I like the idea of biomods and combining the aug/skill system.

See almost every post in this thread (http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=16548). There's quite a lot of the same over at Ion Storm's boards.

People hear that the skill system is being removed, and they immediately assume that DX2 will be a no-brain-required shooter, which is a fairly stupid conclusion, if you've read any previews/interviews about the game at all.

The Corinthian
5th Sep 2003, 01:36
Originally posted by TheDerf
I read somewhere on this forum that it was 25 hours to complete everything you need to do. So that's 25 hours of going through primary missions, +exploring, +finding different routes, +restarts and whatnot, +side missions.

Umm, no. I think by "everything you need to do" it was meant to complete the core storyline. I should think that with every little side-quest it should last much longer than a mere 25 hours.

TheDerf
5th Sep 2003, 02:52
That's what I meant.

Prohass
7th Sep 2003, 08:53
I did find the original to be a bit legnthy. Sides, in the second one i'll prolly end up reading every little pamhplet and piece of paper, email etc I can find, so It'll take me ages to finish it anyway, hehe :)

exo
7th Sep 2003, 09:26
If there was a top 3 questions that developers hate to be asked.

This would definitely be one of them.

Anyways I can only imagine that it'll last as long depending on how much you put into it.

Don
7th Sep 2003, 17:17
The intro looks good, but the one big problem is that it highlights the point of those damn anti-nanotech groups, who want to stop research into nanotechnology because they're convinced nanites will turn the world into a 'grey goo'. At lease DX1 (best game ever) gave a more balanced view of the up coming technology.
Another thought, in DX1 the world was futuristic but still had a sense of familiarity, which helped get you immersed. It appears that in DX2 this is no longer a case. I doubt it will be a problem though.

SlipknotRaziel
8th Sep 2003, 22:29
I finished the game Deus Ex in about 18 hours! Dont know who said it was to long but games these days are WAY to short! That was also the 1st time i played the game i got all endings beat it in every posible way took as i said around 18-20 hours. Really dont see how it was to long i mean i would LOVE a game that takes me 100-200+ hours that would be the best it would be like a whole adventure.

AlteredGlyph
8th Sep 2003, 23:30
Play an RPG. I reccomend the Baldurs Gate series. They have a total of about 400 game hours. (note: This is NOT the baldurs gate: dark alliance series, this is the pc Baldurs Gate series)

Trollslayer
8th Sep 2003, 23:41
Originally posted by AlteredGlyph
Play an RPG. I reccomend the Baldurs Gate series. They have a total of about 400 game hours. (note: This is NOT the baldurs gate: dark alliance series, this is the pc Baldurs Gate series)

Actually try not to play any of the Baldurs Gate games before playing Arcanum, Fallout or Planescape :\ Many people consider the BG series to be the saviour of modern day CRPGs but its actually a big hack'n'slash game with flourished, endless dialogue lines that don't lead anywhere. The games i mentioned actually let you have different play styles, which are not only rewarding, but have multiple paths, ways of dealing with things and multiple endings are present. If you for example explore everything you can in Fallout or Arcanum, you'll probably get more bang for your buck, as they say - specially Arcanum, which is huge.

On an aside since when do BG games last 400 hours? :eek: :confused: I know wading trough senseless waves of enemies takes its time, but i don't remember it taking that much, even counting both games.

SlipknotRaziel
9th Sep 2003, 00:25
I dont like rpg there just not my type of game i need something with a story like Deus Ex or Half-life 2 a fps that is 400+ hours then it will be cool but rpgs really not my type. :(

Lawnboy360
9th Sep 2003, 00:43
a fps that is 400+ hours

That doesn't exist ;) . (single-player at least)

AlteredGlyph
9th Sep 2003, 01:27
On an aside since when do BG games last 400 hours? :eek: :confused: I know wading trough senseless waves of enemies takes its time, but i don't remember it taking that much, even counting both games.

Well, the play hours of BG II =200, according to the info i received. BG 1 is at least 50 hrs, i would say more like 75, and the explansion is about 25. The BgII expansion is approx. 100 hrs. At least i think thats the way it works out. It may be more like 350....

And also, The BG series has a VERY rewarding storyline, its not just stupid lines of dialogue, as you say, although i do admit it has a lot of hack&slash.

The Corinthian
9th Sep 2003, 01:27
Mmmmm. Fallout owns on us. But not nearly as much as Planescape: Torment. I still can't believe they killed that campaign setting...

Picasso
9th Sep 2003, 09:42
According to a new preview (http://pc.ign.com/articles/437/437267p1.html) at IGN, the QA lead for DX2 made it through the game in about 12 hours on a speed run (which I assume means plot-critical missions only and skipping through conversations and cutscenes). The average playthrough time is apparently 30-60 hours.

Prohass
9th Sep 2003, 09:57
Originally posted by Don
The intro looks good, but the one big problem is that it highlights the point of those damn anti-nanotech groups, who want to stop research into nanotechnology because they're convinced nanites will turn the world into a 'grey goo'. At lease DX1 (best game ever) gave a more balanced view of the up coming technology.

HUH? By that logic, people who are anti-atomic bombs dont have an argument because atomic bombs were used in WW2. How is someone using nanotechnology in a bad way unbalance the represention of pro-nano and anti-nano groups?

And DXIW is set 15 years after the original, and after there has been what was essentially an apocalypse, a lot of culture would change, consider how different today would look if 30 years ago some sort of an apocalypse occured.

Random
9th Sep 2003, 10:08
Originally posted by Picasso
According to a new preview (http://pc.ign.com/articles/437/437267p1.html) at IGN, the QA lead for DX2 made it through the game in about 12 hours on a speed run (which I assume means plot-critical missions only and skipping through conversations and cutscenes). The average playthrough time is apparently 30-60 hours.

I once finished DX1 in 8 hours, so DX2 must be longer after all. ;)

Corporal Hicks
9th Sep 2003, 11:46
30-60 hours of gameplay... TOO LONG!

Gameplay is not about lenght (I believe), gameplay is about consistensy, quality and forgetting all about that you are sitting in front of a computerscreen in a black room and everybody else is sleeping or working... ;)

I rather have 12-14 hours of kickass, thrill, steath, interactive, optimized gameplay then 30-60 hours of save/sleep/play lack of total emmerce... (Dont mind my french im from denmark)

And... then after 12-14 hours... be able to play the same game again in 32 different ways by changing choice/skill/characterdev. etc.

12-14 hours is what I can play streight anyway maybe more give or take.. no sweat... but longer than that and my eyes begin to turn square! ;)

DX1 is perfect... Take the choice you feel is the right one first time and play the game again and try everything in new ways...

Ok... If while playing through DX1 your read all the stuff pack in there and go to find all the bonus locations the first time through is takes a lot of time to complete it... Thats fine by me!

---
**** with the bull you get the horns

Trollslayer
9th Sep 2003, 12:58
Originally posted by AlteredGlyph
Well, the play hours of BG II =200, according to the info i received. BG 1 is at least 50 hrs, i would say more like 75, and the explansion is about 25. The BgII expansion is approx. 100 hrs. At least i think thats the way it works out. It may be more like 350....

And also, The BG series has a VERY rewarding storyline, its not just stupid lines of dialogue, as you say, although i do admit it has a lot of hack&slash.

I didn't said dialogue lines are stupid, i said they just don't lead anywhere. One basic rule of game design Bioware forgets is that, if you're considering to include varied dialogue lines, never exagerate on including options that don't lead anywhere, and stick to the matter as best you can. At one time i found myself talking to people and having 6 to 7 dialogue lines when only 3 or 4 mattered. For flavour? Sure, but when the next person also sports the same dialogue structure, it becomes endless and, again, useless. This is especially true with the expansion Throne of Bhaal, where the Solar gives you glimpses of yourself and asks you what do you think - you get close to 10 possible answers at times. The results? They don't exist. Sure Bioware claims that giving good answers might make you become more good (in the sense of achieving your destiny), but then no matter what you said you get to choose what you want to become, so technically those 10 lines are nothing more than filler. Meaning, you have to juggle an answer between 10, but it won't matter, neither at present, neither when you choose your destiny. To that, i say "meh".

On an aside i agree its story is relatively interesting. I personally prefer BG1's storyflow, but hey, its personal preference.

And i think those numbers might be a bit off, friend. I admit i haven't played the games for a while now, but, i can finish both BG1 and 2 straight in one week, plus expansions, with all quests (at least those expected of my class; i won't finish Mage Stronghold quests when i'm a Paladin, obviously :rolleyes: ) This, in a 7-day week, Monday to Sunday. And considering i don't play the entire day, i play about 12 hours... that's about 12x7=84. At weekends i might play longer, so it would round to... lets be forgiving, 90 hours - hell, lets be very forgiving, lets round it to 100. 400-100=300, meaning someone is taking a mite too long finishing the games. :confused: :eek:

Random
9th Sep 2003, 13:34
I can't figure out if Corporal Hicks is joking ...


Originally posted by Corporal Hicks
12-14 hours is what I can play streight anyway maybe more give or take.. no sweat... but longer than that and my eyes begin to turn square! ;)


Ever thought about playing the game over more than one session?

Deus Ex 2 will have far more replaybility than DX1. In the original you could see almost the whole game in one attempt, except for some dialogue choices. In DX2, you won't even see some entire maps depending on which organisation you choose to side with. It will take a long time to see everything in DX2.

Corporal Hicks
9th Sep 2003, 14:16
Originally posted by Random
I can't figure out if Corporal Hicks is joking ...
Here is a joke for you... Ever head the one with the... (Sorry, not funny!!) :)

Ever thought about playing the game over more than one session?
Duh! :) Most games have to be spilt in X nr. of sessions... but, my possible a bit diffuse statement was aimed at the perfect FPS / RPG / Stealth / Whatever... Having a good 12-14 hours of rock solid gameplay and a superb replay value!

In my book is not as much about lenght as it is about content, balance and quality... and most importent of all, replayability!.

Like any good movie... If the story/characters etc. are timeless and well constructed.. its a joy to watch it over and over again....

All I mean is this:
Some games are just to damn long! (FPS games) And the content are all the same (Some of IDs games as this property)... Not to name any names along with alot of other FPS games out there...

Luckelly... Warren and he's wizards at ION Storm has found the key and are using it like a glove...

Deus Ex 2 will have far more replaybility than DX1. In the original you could see almost the whole game in one attempt, except for some dialogue choices. In DX2, you won't even see some entire maps depending on which organisation you choose to side with. It will take a long time to see everything in DX2.
One word... Give it here!!!... Damn thats 3!

DX2, I hope (KNOW) will have a well balanced game length, one that with the many different ways of handling any given situation will bring a game to the marked with even more replay value than DX1... And thats one HELL of an achivement! ;)

----
"Year.. Year... That right!"

Trollslayer
9th Sep 2003, 14:30
Originally posted by Corporal Hicks
30-60 hours of gameplay... TOO LONG!

Gameplay is not about lenght (I believe), gameplay is about consistensy, quality and forgetting all about that you are sitting in front of a computerscreen in a black room and everybody else is sleeping or working... ;)

I rather have 12-14 hours of kickass, thrill, steath, interactive, optimized gameplay then 30-60 hours of save/sleep/play lack of total emmerce... (Dont mind my french im from denmark)

And... then after 12-14 hours... be able to play the same game again in 32 different ways by changing choice/skill/characterdev. etc.

12-14 hours is what I can play streight anyway maybe more give or take.. no sweat... but longer than that and my eyes begin to turn square! ;)

Hmm, not to be picky, but suppose this. If DX:IW lets you choose to join between 4 organisations, and is only a 12 to 14-hour gameplay experience, that means you'd finish it, give and take, in about 4 days (that is if you're anything like me, as i play games during the half of a day). DX:IW, only with a 4-day length to squeeze all its replayability? :eek:

Im not criticizing your gaming habits or what you'd like the game to be (ive seen worse cases of strange preferences myself), but 12 to 14 hours, for a game like DX:IW, is a bit too reductive. I have no problems with you prefering a 12-hour thrilling gameplay... but surely you realize this would make the game too small? Even for your expectations?

Corporal Hicks
9th Sep 2003, 17:20
Originally posted by Trollslayer
Hmm, not to be picky, but suppose this. If DX:IW lets you choose to join between 4 organisations, and is only a 12 to 14-hour gameplay experience, that means you'd finish it, give and take, in about 4 days (that is if you're anything like me, as i play games during the half of a day). DX:IW, only with a 4-day length to squeeze all its replayability? :eek:

Im not criticizing your gaming habits or what you'd like the game to be (ive seen worse cases of strange preferences myself), but 12 to 14 hours, for a game like DX:IW, is a bit too reductive. I have no problems with you prefering a 12-hour thrilling gameplay... but surely you realize this would make the game too small? Even for your expectations?

See your point... As I see it with DX being the game it is and with DX2 going even deeper into freedom of choice...

DX2 must follow the rules of game creation... were the variables/factors are how many choices should the player be able to take/have many different ways can the player react/talk/affect any given situation in the game, how many different voiceactors/good graphics/characters/environment/storyline etc...

Limitations of time/crew size/budget has to relate to some kind of overall game priority... A priority DX2 will hopefully has nailed right into the bone... ... Resulting in a game that lets the player experience the game in many different ways.. Basically bringing REAL replay value into the FPS genre.

Standard FPS also take all these varibles into consirduration and mix it together into a for the most part liniar storyline... Delivering more hours of gameplay, but almost never delivers real replay value!

Hope this shows my general point of view...
Games have limitations... Limitations that one way or the other always end being how much gametime can we give the player an at what cost/time/crew etc...

----
"That can't be! Thats inside the room"

Trollslayer
9th Sep 2003, 17:35
:cool:

Don
9th Sep 2003, 17:41
Originally posted by Prohass
HUH? By that logic, people who are anti-atomic bombs dont have an argument because atomic bombs were used in WW2. How is someone using nanotechnology in a bad way unbalance the represention of pro-nano and anti-nano groups?

And DXIW is set 15 years after the original, and after there has been what was essentially an apocalypse, a lot of culture would change, consider how different today would look if 30 years ago some sort of an apocalypse occured.

YES! That's my exact point. The problem is that when narrow minded people get hold of ideas like this they do all they can to stop advancement in that area. Most people won't bother to look into it and that's where the effects become unbalanced.
But as far as game length is concerned, if DX2 has the replay value of DX1, it will be long enough.

AlteredGlyph
9th Sep 2003, 18:59
The IGN preview says 30-60 hrs. of gameplay, although you can do it in 12 with a speed run. That means it will take about 1 week per playthrough, maybe more, maybe less.

TehFreak
9th Sep 2003, 20:38
someone obviously didn't really understand anything they did in bg2:tob.
[warning: spoiler ahead]
those things you said to the solar did matter. you get to choose between mortality and god-ship, but did you get the choice between good and evil at the end? no. that was determined by the path you followed through the game, a key point of that being what you said to the solar.

Corporal Hicks
9th Sep 2003, 20:53
Originally posted by TehFreak
someone obviously didn't really understand anything they did in bg2:tob.
[warning: spoiler ahead]
those things you said to the solar did matter. you get to choose between mortality and god-ship, but did you get the choice between good and evil at the end? no. that was determined by the path you followed through the game, a key point of that being what you said to the solar.
OK, You scare me, Son! ;)

Have you talked to a doctor! ... :)

-----
"Don't touch that honey.. it's dangerous"

Trollslayer
9th Sep 2003, 21:51
Originally posted by TehFreak
someone obviously didn't really understand anything they did in bg2:tob.
[warning: spoiler ahead]
those things you said to the solar did matter. you get to choose between mortality and god-ship, but did you get the choice between good and evil at the end? no. that was determined by the path you followed through the game, a key point of that being what you said to the solar.

Actually given i've finished the game many times, i think i'm entitled to speak of it.

The "path" you mention that supposedly is followed trough the game is inconsequential. Those questions, and the way you answer them, don't matter. My Paladin gave off all the evil/bloodthirsty/arrogant answers. No alignment change. No reputation drop. No good suddenly turned to evil. Still an option to become an evil god at the end. Only the comment made by the Solar changes. Incidentally i made my paladin reach Fallen status, then gave good answers. Nothing. Nada. Zip. Was it supposed to make characters become good or evil? Sorry but there isnt a change. The path you follow trough the game doesn't have relevance to the Solar's questions. Whatever you do, be you good or evil, won't affect anything. I can become evil by killing peasants and still become a good God, or be a paladin and become an evil God. I get to "choose", as you say it, between good and evil everytime a quest has a good or evil outcome. In fact, what i do in such quests (like, say, saving the noblewoman in the docks or holding her for ransom) has more of an outcome than the solar's questions - which, lets face it, only open ways (where you forcefully have to battle) in the Pocket Plane, and give you experience points. I also seem to recall one of the answers *probably* (and i use the term loosely) affected Sarevok's view of you. There are slight aesthetical changes in the PP according to what you say to it, IIRC. Regardless, outside experience and aesthetic, non-character related things, it doesn't matter how you reply to the Solar in terms of good or evil regarding the character, period. It supposedly affected what kind of God you become, but i never saw this. Neither with my version of the game, neither in other peoples' versions. The option to:

-Become a Good God
-Become an Evil God
-Become a human and let go of the essence

was always there no matter what i did in the past, and that includes Class alignment-restrictions, multiple alignments and Solar's answers to its questions.

On an aside, David Gaider's unnoficial mod (Ascension) has reported enhanced versions on this aspect. If you're running his mod, im sorry, but i don't count unsupported and unnoficial mods (even if he was BG2's senior designer).

So i guess the punchline is, either you obviously didn't understand anything you did in BG2:ToB, or you misunderstood everything i said. Which is it, i don't know, i leave that to your discretion.