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InsaneScorpion331
29th Aug 2003, 18:46
not too long ago, i got my new PSM magazine, and its 2 months ahead right now, so right now i have octobor, and they review games as if they were already out, when in fact thier not gonna be till octobor, so sometime at the end of september i`ll get my new PSM, and if Defiance is really gonna come out in november like they said, it should have a full review and rating on it. So all we have to do is wait `till the end of september and I will get the new issue and we will finally see if Defiance is making its orginal release date. So untill then. Oh, and Defiance is now at number 3 on PSM`s top ten list, MGS3 and Final Fantacy X-2 is ahead of it.

Matt from Spam Buddies
29th Aug 2003, 19:13
Thanks for sharing, mate. :)

- Matthew

Secrets Of Nosgoth
29th Aug 2003, 19:23
:drools: November will be great for the vampire lovers like myself. Castlevania and Legacy of Kain... can life get any better? I submit that it cannot.

Stukedogg
29th Aug 2003, 19:36
Actually Castlevania is coming out October 29th now. And quite a few places have stated November 19th as the date that Defiance is going to come out.

I confidently expect a November release.

Matt from Spam Buddies
29th Aug 2003, 19:40
Not to mention that TM - Revolutions is coming out around then, too. :)

If all goes well - November, what a magical month!

- Matthew

blincoln
29th Aug 2003, 21:50
I am really doubting a November release, given that there are no ads for the game in the September issues of gaming magazines, but I guess we'll have to wait and see.

garbagefanuk
31st Aug 2003, 02:15
Well confirmed for yank land... Not to sure on the Europian release yet. Normally takes games a wee bit longer to get out over here because of all the languages it has to be released in and to alter the it from NTSC to PAL format... *sigh* :(

Time Streamer
31st Aug 2003, 13:40
At the Sony Experience, the sign next to the Defiance said that it would be released at December in Europe.

Jubei
31st Aug 2003, 14:22
December?????? i dont think i can contain myself until then hopefully it will be nearer the start otherwise i mat lose my sanity:confused: :eek:

Dark God Francisco
2nd Sep 2003, 00:59
November will be a great month indeed.

Stukedogg
2nd Sep 2003, 13:26
I on the other hand am confident of a November release. There is this little game called Castlevania that has had it's released actually pushed up to the 29th of October, it's review is coming out in next months EGM, and there has not yet been one ad in any of the magazines. Everyone is claiming a November release date for Defiance now, even Eidos. Have you not seen the ad on the eidos webpage? That's got to be a little reliable. I've heard November 19th from a lot of different people. It's hit the rule of four (the rule that says if you hear it from four different sources then chances are it's true) I've heard it from Gamespot.com, Amazon.com, My local toys R us, and Electronics Boutique. So here's to a November release :)

SkunkWerks
2nd Sep 2003, 14:28
...if it's not done yet, I'd prefer that it ~not~ see a November release. I can wait, I've waited this long already. Nothing worse than the bean-counters and the marketing men pushing a release date which doesn't allow enough time for development. And then you have the fans, us... Considering what's happened the last few times, I believe that we all need to be a bit more patient.

No, if this game is going to be all that the previous games were not, I think that the developers need to be given their fair share of time to do the work that needs to be done.

If it's done by November and it lives up to all that's been said so far, then so be it, a November release it is, but if they're cutting things from development, or not spending enough time in debugging to refine the finished product in order to rush a release, then please, Eidos, postpone the release and do us all a favor.

PeopleAreFood
2nd Sep 2003, 20:27
I am hopeing for a November release.
i want the game to be "finished" and not a bunch of stuff thrown onto a disc. i live for these games & i can't wait for Defiance.

~yours in blood~

fneh
2nd Sep 2003, 21:24
I'm confident about the release date as it's september and review copies should be getting sent out soon surely?

If it was going to be delayed they would have announced sooner right?

Plus PS Experience says december for europe (a month after the USA is what SR2 and BO2 were) so it's resonable to assume the US release of november will go ahead as originally planned.

I know I'll be importing the USA one too just to make sure I get it as soon as I can. I'll buy the UK version when it's released but might get the xbox version (import the PS2 one) if I decide to actually get an xbox around christmas

PeopleAreFood
3rd Sep 2003, 01:55
OK i was at the toys r' us website and they have it posted that Defiance will be out on the 21st of November!
Eidos needs to make up it mind....i have vacation time at work coming up and i want to take it the week of the games release. I just need to know so i can let my boss know. the only bright side to this is that it gives the team more time to make a game that rocks!

~yours in blood~

NoobSaibot
3rd Sep 2003, 02:42
we can only hope that it will be finished, out, and totally amazing in Novemeber.

How ever, I believe that if it is in November that it will be on the 28 - 30 or some day at the end of the mounth.

Stukedogg
3rd Sep 2003, 13:39
You know the new website for www.legacyofkain.com is coming out today so I'm betting we will actually know the projected CD release date, maybe today. I'm excited to see the knew site btw.

Matt from Spam Buddies
3rd Sep 2003, 17:25
Yeah, me too, mate. :)

I'm so excited. :D

- Matthew

Secrets Of Nosgoth
5th Sep 2003, 19:02
Originally posted by Stukedogg
Actually Castlevania is coming out October 29th now. And quite a few places have stated November 19th as the date that Defiance is going to come out.

I confidently expect a November release.

Ah, good to know that CV is coming out earlier than I expected. But OMG, those are going to be two great games. Especially after having seen the new trailer for LoKD. I thought the previous trailer was the coolest, but OMG this one is even better (the one on the official website).

Sarxis
6th Sep 2003, 05:32
I hope it comes out in November, that way I can still hope for a 2003 PC port of it.

Time Streamer
6th Sep 2003, 18:43
According the latest release information, Finland would receive the Defiance in November as well.

PeopleAreFood
7th Sep 2003, 13:54
I went to my local EB store yesterday & reserved a copy of Defiance and i ask the store manager if the the release date was "for sure".
he told me that at this time it is and that they should be get promo material at the end of this month or the early part of Oct.
so i think we can all look forward to a November release. :D

~yours in blood~

Stephenls
7th Sep 2003, 17:17
Just as a sort of check for this sort of thing, but...

How early were the announcements for the delays on the other games in this series? Because if they were pushed back at the last minute, this one might be as well, where as if they were consistently open with whether the LoK games were on time, then we can probably expect November.

Anyone remember? Pattern recognition is useful stuff.

Dragonqueen
8th Sep 2003, 19:26
According to www.gameplay.com website, LOKD for the PC is due to be released in November around the 28th for £29.99. It gave me the option to pre-order it so I did as well as selecting "email me if date changes" option. :confused:

Chaotix
9th Sep 2003, 03:56
On the EB site, it says Defiance will ship on November 18 2003

Stephenls
9th Sep 2003, 04:00
Originally posted by Chaotix
On the EB site, it says Defiance will ship on November 18 2003

So I will repeat my question, because I honestly don't know the answer but I'd like to:

When Soul Reaver and Soul Reaver 2 were delayed (was Soul Reaver 2 delayed at all? I forget), was the delay announcement within two months of the release date?

PeopleAreFood
9th Sep 2003, 13:53
Well if it ships on the 18th it will be in stores on the 19th..i think thats how it works. i would feel better if Eidos posted a confirmed date on one of the sites. ohh yeah and they did delay SR2 like three months before it came out.

i just really want the game i am so hyped i am telling every one to go out and buy it, even if they have never played the games before...please don't push it back and give us a great game with everything in it this time. ;)


~yours in blood~

SkunkWerks
9th Sep 2003, 22:01
Originally posted by Stephenls
Just as a sort of check for this sort of thing, but...

How early were the announcements for the delays on the other games in this series? Because if they were pushed back at the last minute, this one might be as well, where as if they were consistently open with whether the LoK games were on time, then we can probably expect November.

Anyone remember? Pattern recognition is useful stuff.

Delays usually came at the last minute... and as for the number of delays, well, the ultimate release date for the original Soul Reaver was at least six months pushed back than its first announced release date. When you look at how much got cut from the game, you begin to see why. I can only imagine what the game would have looked like if it actually made its original release date... about half of the game's released content probably would have been missing.

Soul Reaver 2 suffered as much from Rush-Release syndrome as did its predecessor, much was promised, and very little was delivered ultimately. The story was wonderful, but the gameplay was shallow and lackluster.

Blood Omen 2 suffered more in the debug department than in terms of missing content, but still, significant enough.

Each time this happens, I find myself thinking, 'geez, you'd think that they'd begin to take more time and care with the design process in the next game, knowing how many times they screwed up what would otherwise have been a pretty darn good title,' and each time I think it, I'm dissapointed by the next release, which invariably suffers from the same error.

Everything I've seen and heard about Defiance seems pretty spectacular, but if, like so many times before, they don't allow enough time to deliver on all these promises, assurances and thus, expectations, then sadly I have to say I'm certain that this game will fall as flat at crunch time as all of its forebears.

It'd be a shame to see that happen, a real shame. Like I said, I'm perfectly willing to wait another year if it takes that long to get all the planned-for content into the game and working properly. I mean, sure, with any project, you never feel like you're really finished with it, but I think it's fair to expect a project to live up to what the developers are promising...

...I still have old gaming mags laying around with developer interviews concerning previous LoK titles and what the gamer can expect to see in their forthcoming releases as they were early in development, and it's just really shocking to see how much of a deficit there was between what was promised, and what was delivered.

Now it's entirely possible that Defiance is near completion with a minimum of trimming done, and all efforts made to see that the final product is bug-free; and it's possible that a November release date is perfectly reasonable. If that's the case, then bring it on.

But it just seems like this game is supposed to be, according to developers, such a drastic improvement on previous titles, that the prospect of the first announce release date being reasonable seems a remote possibility to me at the best. I could be wrong, I hope I'm wrong, but based on past experience, I have a sinking feeling that I'm not.

Again, I think vigilance is called for on the part of the developers, and patience on the part of the fans, if this game is to be given the chance to be all that it's promised to be.

PeopleAreFood
10th Sep 2003, 03:49
Wow! Sknunk Werks thanks for bringing the negitive vibe to the table. :p I think SR2 was a very good game....just a little short.
i also liked BO2 i just hated the bugs...so cheer the hell up Sknunk
and hope for the November release date.

~yours in blood~

Stephenls
10th Sep 2003, 04:22
Originally posted by PeopleAreFood
Wow! Sknunk Werks thanks for bringing the negitive vibe to the table. :p I think SR2 was a very good game....just a little short.


Seriously, I think SkunkWerks speaks (well, types) truth there. I agree with you that Soul Reaver 2 was a "very good" game -- in fact I'd have to say it was one of my favorite games on the PS2, if not my very favorite -- but in terms of gameplay it was, shall we say, lacking. As well as short.

Still, I can understand why that happened (didn't they have to re-build the engine, like, twice?), and all in all they did an amazing job 1. And the extras, well, they were more entertaining to watch than most of the movies I own.

That said, I have higher hopes for Defiance. I hope they don't need a delay, but if they do need it, I hope they get it.

1. Guess the origin of this phrase and win a fabulous No-Prize!

SkunkWerks
10th Sep 2003, 14:26
Originally posted by PeopleAreFood
Wow! Sknunk Werks thanks for bringing the negitive vibe to the table. :p I think SR2 was a very good game....just a little short.
i also liked BO2 i just hated the bugs...so cheer the hell up Sknunk
and hope for the November release date.



I'm wondering where it was that I said that any of these were "bad" games- that being the exact opposite of "good". No, I quite like the LoK series, actually, and I feel that all the games have had a very strong plotline and very good writing.

That aspect of the series alone has kept me faithful for quite some time. And it's precisely for that fact that I find the way development has been handled on the last three releases to be so shameful. The plot gives any release in the series so much potential, but since the vehicle for delivering that plot- that being the game mechanics and content- are continually flawed, that potential can't be fully realized.

In short, the wonderful mythos of the LoK series alone can't sustain it for long if each new release finds itself incessantly repeating the same error over and over again: unreasonable expectations for development versus time allotted for development.

What I had suggested was that the last three releases could have been much better- particularly in light of the pre-release interviews- if they had been given a reasonable amount of time for development.

So, I'll reiterate: If it is, in fact, the case that Defiance is having corners cut left and right to rush it's release, then the best favor Eidos can do for its fans, the game developers, and for the game itself, is to postpone the release. Furthermore, I think we- as fans- should be particularly sympathetic to such a delay in light of past experience. Though, in saying that, I'm probably being overly-optimistic- people will probably be just as impatient as ever.

If the game is in fact, complete, and the November release date is not an unreasonably short amount of time to finish development, then my wariness might be unecessary in this case. However it's hardly an unwarranted concern given what's happened to three out of four games in the series due to this very same issue. Any "vibes" you may have felt are probably something you should see a doctor about, since I've got nothing to do with that. All I'm doing here is voicing a legitimate concern, and reasoning a better outcome than the last three releases have benefitted from.

And yes, I'll cheer up, provided it turns out that this release lives up to all that's been said, and reflects an amount of time and care that should be taken with such a project.

demonic_eye
11th Sep 2003, 19:01
Here's me crossing my fingers for November! But I have to admit that I would not be completely crushed if the relesase date was pushed back. It usually happens for a good reason, bugs and the like. I personally would prefer they pushed the release date back and I get a good game worthy of my money at the end of the wait than get a £49 game that has been rushed to comply with deadlines and is obviously poorly put together, full of bugs and hard to handle. Every game no matter how good it is overall has it's shortcomings in one area or another be it controls, story or something as seemingly trivial as camera angles.

I read somewhere that this game was coming out 'only when it is finished and everyone is happy with the quality of the game'. Did I dream this? Or was that actually said by someone?

jasonxxx
14th Sep 2003, 17:52
i actually cheaked the release date and for the ps2 and right now it is comming out on november 20th. however i also heard that there is a good chance that it could get pushed back to the new year because of some of the things going on with cd. so there is a chance we will have to wait a little longer because they are gonna try to get all the glitches out so that things dont happen like in bo2 like at the end with the lips is it just me or did any one else notice that to.

jasonxxx
14th Sep 2003, 17:55
plus dont forget that they also pushed soul reaver 2 back several times i know because i was waiting for quite a while for it to come out it would be kind of cool if the game did come out in november though because correct me if im wrong but didt soul reaver 2 come out in november 2 years ago.

Dethbunny
14th Sep 2003, 19:09
I worked at EB when SR2 was coming out and official delays could come in even a week before release. I seem to remember that within a month of the release date that SR2 was pushed back a couple of times...I think the sentiment on these boards is that we can wait as long as it's good! and Finished! Properly.
There are a few good games coming out in November so I can manage to hold off a little bit for LOK:Defiance but not too long...

There is nothing worse in the world than desperate LOK fans...

Riovanes
14th Sep 2003, 22:32
Originally posted by Dethbunny
There is nothing worse in the world than desperate LOK fans...

Is there really any other kind?

In terms of patience, I'd say we're about the worst bunch of fans ANYWHERE. We whinge on and on about how much we hate the problems these games have had due to poor release schedules - and we write irate posts decrying Eidos for bullying CD into an early release. We get ourselves all wound up with the righteousness of protecting our favorite third party developer from its big, bad, conglomerate publisher - and then as soon as we hear about a snag, we get all pissed off, and start *****ing about wanting the game NOW, DAMMIT!!!

Personally, I've had enough of this kind of attitude. Either be on one side of the fence or another, as this fair-weather friend crap just won't do. You're either in this for the long haul, or you're willing to be satisfied with garbage.

The choice is yours.

Make it - and stick with it.

BAH!!!

SkunkWerks
15th Sep 2003, 13:52
Originally posted by Riovanes
Personally, I've had enough of this kind of attitude. Either be on one side of the fence or another, as this fair-weather friend crap just won't do. You're either in this for the long haul, or you're willing to be satisfied with garbage.

Well put.

This coming from a person who was once on the other side of that fence- *****ing about the original Soul Reaver's incessantly pushed back release date, then, later on, realizing just how much was missing from the game when it was finally released.

No... I'm through being impatient. Soul Reaver 2 and Blood Omen 2 were both released practically without my knowing about it, because I simply took the attitude that it would release when it was ready. I also didn't bother to come back to these boards to bother moaning and groaning about the problems- I already knew what had happened, because I watched it happen before- and I learned.

Sadly, if perhaps more fans had expressed the same attitude with the developers on the last two releases, they might have been convinced to allow more time for development, and thus we would have wound up with a better product. But hey, who am I to tell people what they shoudl or should not do...

...like they'd listen to me if I did anyway.

Heh, anyway, I'm hoping to see it released, I'm just not obsessed with how soon that may ort may not be. I'm perfectly comfy with giving them some time. And heck, it's one less purchase I have to make in November. ;)

Stephenls
15th Sep 2003, 15:29
Y'know, it might be useful to consider an honest letter-writing campaign to Eidos regarding allowing them to delay as long as needed. Emails are usually worth the paper they're written on when it comes to how much companies pay attention to them, but I hear Upper Management types sometimes actually listen to stuff written down with actual pens.

Then again, apathy.

Stukedogg
15th Sep 2003, 17:44
uuuh guys... I have no problem with a November release. And I haven't heard anything from the high in charge types about a delay. If it's done let them release it.

LoK#1
15th Sep 2003, 21:19
Well said all,everyone loooks at life differently, but i think we all agree on this


Crystal Dynamics RELEASE IT WHEN ITS READY

ok we have heard its November thats fine cos then at least we know its not gonna be another 3 years(which is how long we have to wait for The Hobbit film)but it aint been cast in stone and if it is delayed i doubt cd will go quiet on us and we will still be updated with newer vids/demos etc

So i say chill out it will be here when it is

PeopleAreFood
20th Sep 2003, 15:45
I am starting to think that we will not see a November release:(
the reason i say this is becuase they seem willing to give us all these pics and a new site but none of it really new! always the same places. the keep, the underwolrd, voradors crib, and a few shot of the forests. they are from different angles.



~yours in blood~

xarax
20th Sep 2003, 16:33
As stated elsewhere, most LoK players would be willing to wait a little longer if it meant a more stable, playable, enjoyable game. Previous LoK games were sent out to meet deadlines, and had big holes in story and features. SR1 and SR2 had huge pieces cut out to meet deadlines. I don't want to see that in LoKDefiance. I want large, non-linear, complete world with plenty of places to explore, interesting/compelling storyline, bonus areas, secrets, cheats, etc. I'll wait for as long as it takes for them to get it right.

I also hope it comes with a useful map and compass.

Chaotix
20th Sep 2003, 17:41
Originally posted by PeopleAreFood
I am starting to think that we will not see a November release:(
the reason i say this is becuase they seem willing to give us all these pics and a new site but none of it really new! always the same places. the keep, the underwolrd, voradors crib, and a few shot of the forests. they are from different angles.


Maybe. But consider this: the fans of LoK already know of these areas in the game correct? So releasing new footage of them wouldn't add anything new. If they put in shots of a bunch of new levels, then all of a sudden they could give a chunk of the story away. Personally I'm surprised they even showed the Janos picture.

Dark_Child
20th Sep 2003, 21:41
November for the US release is strange, because the european releaase is also in November ( and both releases so close together? Mhm...:rolleyes: )


Maybe it helps the european gamers if I tell you that "EIDOS - Germany" does the german voice recording at the moment. (It's official - a mod told that)
And because (I'm sure) the game will be realesed in all europ. countrys at the same time, I hope it maybe helps to estimate the time until the realese.

Matt from Spam Buddies
21st Sep 2003, 09:38
Rio's back... ;)

- Matthew

PeopleAreFood
24th Sep 2003, 15:53
Hey everyone i just went to the EBworld web site and they have
a Prima's offical strategy guide for Defiance due out on the 3rd of November! this would have to mean the game is done! they can't make a guide if the game is not done. right?
i am so very hyped.
just thought i would share.


~yours in blood~

LoK#1
24th Sep 2003, 16:00
all i want to know is ,does C.D think they are on top of everything,no major problems or anything so far?
Basically without giving too much info away are they running on schedule?
*crosses fingers*



Alas poor Nuprator , i knew him well!........well not really!

InsaneScorpion331
24th Sep 2003, 19:08
i`m getting that guide when it comes out, regardless of the spoilers (all my games get spoiled for me anyway, including EVERY LOK game thier was). Thanks for telling us that PeopleAreFood.:p

Stukedogg
25th Sep 2003, 01:11
hahahahahaha The newest EGM and PSM both have ads out saying that the game will be here in November.


And Stukes said let there be Defiance, and there was... in November.:D

Fox
25th Sep 2003, 01:43
I know I dont post much even thought I have been a member for ages in this forum ( even before this screen name ) but I just wanted to say that when blood omen 2 came out so did a horrible part of me. I was so enraged that they had tainted the story by not being able to deliver properly that I vowed that I would never play a legacy of kain title ( I also destroyed the disk in a thousand pieces ) . Here I am still which proves the power of such a story and I agree with what everyone has been saying about waiting as much as we have too but if the november release is like blood omen 2, this forum will turn into a crusade like it did with blood omen 2, I know, I was there and if lara's last game is any indication of what is going to happen here then god help us all.

Here is hoping for the best and expecting the worst.

SkunkWerks
25th Sep 2003, 17:09
...in fact, Tomb Raider's not one of my big favorite series. Still, I get the gist.

I've not given up hope on the series yet myself, and I'm not sure if I could draw a line in the sand for anyone predicting what it would take to make me give up on LoK.

I think that the series is one of the most artful video game franchises I've ever seen. I just get frustrated- figuring that this fact alone should trigger some reverence from the bean-counters and other marketing men. The developers deserve a realistic amount of time to complete a release, it's that simple. The series has gotten the attention it's gotten precisely because of it's plot and the believability of it's characters. Maybe I'm just being stuck-up here but I believe that you can't treat that kind of creative work with a rush-job philosophy.

Still, it is a game as well as a story, with each element complementing the other, and- while none of the releases I've seen has been tragically short of good writing- if either of these aspects is left wanting when the release is finalized, it takes away from the work as a whole.

Here's to what will hopefully be a good title, though, whenever it needs to come out to make that possible.

warpsavant
25th Sep 2003, 17:33
I think some of you people need to have some faith.

SkunkWerks
29th Sep 2003, 22:28
...then again, three out of the current four releases suffered from these problems.

I suppose the old eastern proverb about throwing a stone into a poind might apply. Still, you can hardly blame people for being skeptical.