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Xenon
29th Aug 2003, 16:06
Disposable lockpicks, multitools, armor and many other things. Have you ever imagined a disposable lockpick (they wear off but not at that rate) ? Do you think electronic devices will be so cheap that people will throw them away after a single use ? And just imagine JC carrying a couple of spare armor suits besides the one he's wearing, just in case...

I'm not against disposability of items in general but not in the specification and amount it was in DX. I think it was weird and, sometimes, annoying. It might have decreased immersion. Hope they'll offer something more realistic in DX2.

What do you think ?

TehFreak
29th Aug 2003, 16:21
the lockpicks/multitools thing wasn't too bad (though maybe a system where they take longer to wear out and you have to buy another one on the black market or something would work better)
but the armour just giving up after a few seconds was pants. whoever came up with that deserves a slap.

BMKane
29th Aug 2003, 17:53
Yea, I mean, what if you want to put the armour on when noone's around, just in case some surly guard decides to shoot at you? I can just see JC dodging bullets as he shrugs on a vest of ballistic armour, firing two bullets, then stopping to put another one on.

Disposable lockpicks was pretty odd, too. I would have personally preferred a Splinter Cell-like system, where a normal lockpick lasts forever, but takes longer, and a disposable one is rarer, but works instantly. Though having that splinter cell-style Giant Floating Lockpick of Doom in your face every time you open a door would suck.

exo
29th Aug 2003, 18:49
What's the point?

It's like, you can only use this once because the batteries will run out after one use.

If it's a tool for limiting gameplay, I guess I could overlook how irritating it is because I'll be that person who think it's really important to save all your tools and before I know it beat the game without having used one of them.

you'd think they would have made tools that work for more than one or two use in the future.

Outcast
29th Aug 2003, 19:16
An idea for multitools: Batteries! You always have a multitool, which doesn't even count towards your inventory, (like the nanokey) but requires disposable batteries. And certain larger batteries might be worth more uses!

As for disposable lockpicks, I think it was stupid. However, there should be a 50% chance that a lockpick will break once its done its business, and it will always be broken after at least five uses, and never on the first use. So, though there is the oddity that every lockpick in the game is a fragile piece of junk, at least you can get between two to five uses per lockpick.

And armor! Well, in my opinion, ballistic should have a random amount of health that is not displayed, but will have a certain range of health depending on type, and it is punctured and thus becomes useless once destroyed. Of course, yous till take a significantly smaller portion of damage while wearing armor. Other armor like thermoptic camo should have a timer, but a significantly larger one from the previous game.

pooch
29th Aug 2003, 20:21
Lockpicks:

What a pain in DX. Think about it, this is a future world, are you telling me they don't make a good lockpick? Even today, the CIA uses a solid lockpick kit that doesn't have to be replaced for years! I agree with the Splinter-Cell lockpick option - I thought that was well done in SC. If you prefer the silent approach to DX2, then the longer you would lockpick, the better chance you would have that a passer-by would see you and alert guards.

Multi-Tools:

I think the Multi-Tool idea should be like the Camera Jammer in Splinter Cell. Basically, an electronic jammer that helps Alex hack into terminals (because the jammer bypasses security settings), or temporarily "freezes" cameras or other electronic devices. It would be a neat feature to even use on bots to temporarily disable them or reprogram them. The tool would have a power-drain function whereas it is only good for a few seconds.

Armor:

Just stupid. Did anyone even waste an inventory space for this?? I used the thermo-camo before my invisible aug, but that was it. Stupid, just plain stupid.

Picasso
29th Aug 2003, 20:40
What a pain in DX. Think about it, this is a future world, are you telling me they don't make a good lockpick? Even today, the CIA uses a solid lockpick kit that doesn't have to be replaced for years!

It's not that the lockpicks are of poor quality and keep breaking, it's that they're designed to be disposable. If you read their inventory text you'll see that "appropriate needles are formed from fast-congealing polymers".

The game fiction supports them. If you don't like their implementation from a gameplay standpoint, then that's another argument.

[IS]XXX
29th Aug 2003, 21:05
It's not about "realism" or what is in place today. It's about balancing out gameplay. Do I like them? No. But I'm not going to parallel it with anything in place today, because it was made for gameplay balancing reasons. Failure to understand this will create problems.

Everything must come with a price in games, to make it fun and challenging. Arguably, you could go in with a squad of UNATCO agents, tanks, helicoptors, and support personnell. But are you going to do that? NO! Theres no point in the game then (in a FPS style game. This is a perfectly appropriate scenario for an RTS). "Uh, yeah, we have a door here. Could we get the chopter to destroy it."

Everything must be limiting, thats the whole point of the game. Why do you think there were ammo restrictions?

To get back on topic, I totally agree with non-disposable lockpicks etc., but there has to be some kind of drawback. With skill level system in DX, it sorta made sense, each lock pick worth more, but it doesn't make sense to get more than advanced, considering that by advanced, you could open ANY lock with 2 picks.

I think a skill level drawback would be quite elegant for non-disposable lock picks. What I mean is, non-disposable lock picks at level 1 biomod (or whatever system they are using now) could open any door 20% and below, and do so slowly with a chance of failure. Biomod level 2 would open any door thats 50% and below, with low chance of failure for doors below 20%, and a moderate rate of failure for 20% - 50%, with slighly decreased time. And at Tier 3, you should be able to have a chance to open any door, etc., etc. By failing, I don't mean the lock pick goes away, just simply you need to re-pick the lock.

Gruf
30th Aug 2003, 09:15
multi tool functionality should have been part of the ice breaker hacker thing that lets you read e mails, and that should have been a mod rather than a skill, then, as long as you had bio electric energy, you could open doors. higher upgrades of the mod reduces the number of attempts required to open high security doors...

yoink

Skul-Gun
30th Aug 2003, 14:21
a good lockpick system is the one used in morrowind. There are several types of lockpicks of varying quality. apprentice/journyman/master/grandmaster/secret grandmaster.

the apprentice's lockpick had 25 or so uses and could unlock locks with up to about 30% lock strength. The grandmaster's lockpick (very rare item) had about 15 or so uses, but could open locks up to about 80%.

You also had a lockpicking/trap disarming skill which went up depending on the number of times you opened a lock/disarmed a trap.

The skill would reduce your chance of failure at a lockpicking attempt. each attempt would reduce the lockpick's usage number by 1. high skill levels also allowed lockpicks to pick locks of higher value than they were intended to do so. so at maximum level, one could pick a 100% lock with just an apprentice's pick. (with a certain chance of failure of course)

there was also a Skeleton key (you had to do a lot of work for it) which opens ALL locks in the world, first time....but only had 20 uses.

the problem with this system was tha the skill level went up too quickly so towards the end of the game i owned way more picks than i had any use for.

Xenon
30th Aug 2003, 17:02
To [IS]XXX: Well, I perfectly understand it was made for balancing gameplay. I didn't mean to give the player a universal lockpick that opened everything and didn't wear off. I mainly mentioned disposable lockpicks/multitools to illustrate general disposability in DX (which, I think, was excessive). But, as you can see, there are many other ways to make balanced and realistic lockpicks/multitools system (and you illustrated one yourself).

To Skul-Gun: did security skill increased too quickly ?! If it did than it's about the only skill in Morrowind to increase quickly. (except, maybe, for athletics).

Skul-Gun
30th Aug 2003, 17:11
not that it increased quickly, but at level 50 i could pick into 100% locks with journyman's picks. granted it failed a lot, but 1 in every 5 tries got it. and i had a lot of picks by that time so it didn't matter.

there are some balancing mods out there that make levelling slower, picks weaker, or simply less picks, but i can never be bothered to dl them.

another skill that went up quickly was the long blade skill.

BMKane
30th Aug 2003, 17:42
Skul-Gun: First, that's a kickin' name :). Second, Morrowind's lockpicking system WAS good, but I preferred its spellmaking system. Specifically, the "Dwarven Lockpick" spell I made which opens any door in one try :).

Maybe have a regular lockpick and probe wear out sorta like weapons in System Shock 2. When its fully worn out, it breaks and can't be used again. If you had a hich lockpicking skill, you could maybe try to repair worn out picks (though, if you fail, they break.)

About armour: I'd like the current system if they stacked. As it is, they take up wayyyyy too much inventory space.

[IS]XXX
30th Aug 2003, 18:09
Morrowind related: Uhhh, longblade depended. I use a redguard w/combat specialization AND longblade as a major skill. So uh, yeah, it went up pretty quickly :D

But ARMOR is the one that goes up quickly (that and block). Find mudcrab. Position yourself with armor and/or healing item. Let crabs attack. If you have healing, check back in half an hour. Heal. Restore armor. Repeat. If you don't have healing, just check every 15 minutes. Your armor will go through the roof in a couple hours.

Skul-Gun
30th Aug 2003, 18:29
i'm ashamed by it, but that's what i did with my armor too. i just enchanted a few regen rings, then rounded up as many low level creatures as i could, and went away for a snack while i worked up my armor skills.

about the lockpicks: i read somewhere here that the lockpicks and tools are getting merged into one. now in dx1 i could hold 20 picks and 20 tools. will i still be only allowed to hold 20 of these new things, thus essentially halving the amount i can carry?


ps, cheers bmkane

Bio Denton
30th Aug 2003, 20:58
Brute-force lockpicks, i.e very quick lock-picks for complex locks become useless after they are used once.

Skul-Gun
30th Aug 2003, 21:45
maybe that explains it! when jc is picking a lock, he isn't actually picking it at all. He's just jamming that thing into an arbitrary point to try and prise it open. That's why you never need to point at the lock, just the door/box/cupboard. And also why it doesn't look as though he's doing any logical 'picking' rather than simply wriggling it around for a bit.

headbutt
31st Aug 2003, 00:10
I didn't lke the lock picking system but if they did have suck low durability you should at least be able to re use any remaing strengh in the pick after your done.

Skul-Gun
31st Aug 2003, 00:15
yeah i really hated that! there'd be a 55% lock. my fiirst pick would take 50% away and i'd have to use a second pick just for a lousy 5%

Lawnboy360
31st Aug 2003, 01:24
yeah i really hated that! there'd be a 55% lock. my fiirst pick would take 50% away and i'd have to use a second pick just for a lousy 5%

Now that's the kind of things that can ruin my day ;) .

exo
31st Aug 2003, 07:36
Disposable is great IF you don't need the tool after you're done with it.

but honestly, if we know we're gonna be lock picking more than 10 doors you'd think they'd issue a tool that doesn't destroy itself while being used?

Or a multi-tool, oh hey this code requires 6 multi-tools to be cracked, oh gee, I'm one multi-tool short, sorry, please come again.

I mean, how stupid would you look to a person watching you from a camera?

"Hey man, check this out, this guy used 3 lock picks on the door out back"

"hahhaa what a tool"

It just doesn't make sense, why have DISPOSABLES of an item that you'll need to use LOTS???

"Oh look, that dude has the lock that doesn't decay after use"

"wow, technology sure is getting ahead these days"

<end message>

Trevion
3rd Sep 2003, 19:34
Originally posted by exo
Disposable is great IF you don't need the tool after you're done with it.

but honestly, if we know we're gonna be lock picking more than 10 doors you'd think they'd issue a tool that doesn't destroy itself while being used?

Or a multi-tool, oh hey this code requires 6 multi-tools to be cracked, oh gee, I'm one multi-tool short, sorry, please come again.

I mean, how stupid would you look to a person watching you from a camera?

"Hey man, check this out, this guy used 3 lock picks on the door out back"

"hahhaa what a tool"

It just doesn't make sense, why have DISPOSABLES of an item that you'll need to use LOTS???

"Oh look, that dude has the lock that doesn't decay after use"

"wow, technology sure is getting ahead these days"

<end message>

First, this is 100% a gameplay issue. Initially (from a WS interview), DX worked by saying that if your lockpicking ability was greater than the strength of the door, you could pick it. Otherwise, you couldn't. This led to a thorough lack of suspense involved, as anyone who's played Hitman 2 knows. Door? Okay, sneak behind guard to door. Locked? Pick lock. Done. I didn't come close to caring if doors were locked or not. DX made me care about locks and take them into account when planning my approach.

Second, it's not hard to come up with justifications for how DX did it. Suppose "nano lockpicks" work by injecting nanobots that disassemble the internals of the lock. You'd need your "lockpick" to be charged with nanobots. If a lock was more complicated or included nano-defenses, you'd need to send more nanobots at it.

God From Machine
3rd Sep 2003, 20:05
I'm not too concerned about the disposable items. As long as the game is fun too play, a sci-fi game will not be accurate to life anyway. The makers would be more enclined to write a short "this is why it is" sentance than change whatever system they have set up.

Besides JC only had the one key to open any lock in the game so they are probabbly not regular locks anyway. I would imagine they use nanites or something. So without a schematic of the lock and lockpick we can't say why it should or should not work.


If i were to guess i would say that the key injects some programewd nanites to open the door and the lockpick would just be a cartridge to shoot in nanites to "pick" at the lock and your skill is how well to cover the inner workings of the lock with your spray of nanites.

BMKane
4th Sep 2003, 00:55
Or, it could be the way I figured Medkits would work. A medkit would have nanites that are preprogrammed to do basic things like repairing tissue and such, but if you had better medical knowledge, you could reprogram them to target specific parts of the body in a certain way. Like, instead of just sealing a wound, it cleans it as well. The lockpicks could work similarly. It tries to randomly assemble itself into a pick that matches the lock, but if your skill is high, you can influence it slightly so it's faster at doing it.

exo
4th Sep 2003, 07:01
Originally posted by Trevion
First, this is 100% a gameplay issue. Initially (from a WS interview), DX worked by saying that if your lockpicking ability was greater than the strength of the door, you could pick it. Otherwise, you couldn't. This led to a thorough lack of suspense involved, as anyone who's played Hitman 2 knows. Door? Okay, sneak behind guard to door. Locked? Pick lock. Done. I didn't come close to caring if doors were locked or not. DX made me care about locks and take them into account when planning my approach.

Second, it's not hard to come up with justifications for how DX did it. Suppose "nano lockpicks" work by injecting nanobots that disassemble the internals of the lock. You'd need your "lockpick" to be charged with nanobots. If a lock was more complicated or included nano-defenses, you'd need to send more nanobots at it.

Um, in hitman 2 you could pick locks because that's part of a silent assassins job. If he couldn't pick a lock he'd be pretty damn useless when a locked door presented itself.

As for your second justification. How is that a perfect justification? Here we have a state of the art piece of equipment. Thinks faster. Moves faster. Jumps higher. See's through walls. Yet we can't even issue them a proper lock pick, only disposable ones.

crimson_stallion
9th Sep 2003, 13:36
Yeah, I agree with exo. The lockpics getting used up is abit agrivating. I also had times where i would have a lock that needed four picks, and id happen to have only 3. It's annoying when you are in the game and you reallly want to get through that door.

With items like lams then disposability was definately plausible i think because explosives are generally one use things. Some of the ohter things annoyed me a little however. I'm thinking it was probably implemented to ballance gameplay.

I think a good way for the armour would be to basically have a secong damage bar for the armour. Once it took a certain amount of damage, then it would just basically be useless so you would lose it. This way you could at least have it when you need it, rather then ahving to select it halfway through a fight. I found I never carried armour or thermoptic camo because it took up important inventory space and was lmited in its usability. The camo isnt too bad because its nano-ish so you could say it has a nano-battery of some kinda, and after a certain amount of use it runs out. Possibly you could still hold onto it, and instead of gettign a new one you could basically recharge the one you have. something like the health charge machines in half like or the blaster pack chargers in star wars perhaps.

It didnt REALLY bother me, but it was annoying at times and resulted it me never using the items. I just carried medkits instead, or used my health aug to counter damage taken. After all, medkits and bio cells were not hard to come by.

exo
9th Sep 2003, 15:05
What I don't get is why armour has an energy limit and "runs out". I mean don't they have kevlar or something even back then?...

Also... Explosives are one use things yes.. but are in NO way an option when you're in the more populated levels when you want to be stealthy.

Trollslayer
9th Sep 2003, 15:10
I never had many problems with lockpick and nanotool shortage, but then again, i countered that in two ways. One was the obvious raising of the skills ;) The other was to carry quite a number of LAMs or Assault Rifles to blow up doors, thus saving on the tools. Though i perfectly understand how some people might have problems with them.

And on the armour... good point. I'm against recharging it, but i can see myself using some sort of padded vest with Kevlar and Nomex-similar materials (for fire-proof hazards), and having it degrade over time, thus needing a new one. That or a "typical" law enforcement Level II and Level IIIA bodyarmour (which, for the curious, protects again multiple types of ammo).

Trollslayer
9th Sep 2003, 15:29
Originally posted by exo
What I don't get is why armour has an energy limit and "runs out". I mean don't they have kevlar or something even back then?...

Also... Explosives are one use things yes.. but are in NO way an option when you're in the more populated levels when you want to be stealthy.

Well Kevlar is good. Its 5 times stronger than steel on an equal weight basis, yet light an flexible (IIRC it was also about 18 to 20 times stronger than steel while underwater, though im not sure). The problem is that Kevlar is not suited to handle rifle assault fire(due to propelling speed and caliber). Another problem is that while Kevlar stops a bullet, you still feel the impact of it (in fact bulletproof vests are made to absorb kinetic energy, but dang, it still hurts :p ). Not forgetting that increased weight means increased protection, but less maneuverability. A Level IV bodyarmour weighs in usually at 6 pounds - of course, its supposed to stop AP rounds with an 100% certainty, but id personally prefer to use something less bulky.

Le`Sauveur`De`Ces`Dames
9th Sep 2003, 15:41
hmmm just a question : WHAT is IIRC?

Trollslayer
9th Sep 2003, 15:51
IIRC stands for If I Recall Correctly ;) :)

God From Machine
9th Sep 2003, 18:25
Well i don't know if anyone else thought of this but, What if the balistic vests were nano augmented vests. I mean your aug for balistic protection used power and ran out so why not a vest that turns on and off. Besides to me, by the look of JC and the other augmented agents they could already be wearing conventional kevlar armour and the vest is just an extra.

Just makes sence to me that if the internal nanos you have need to use power which will run out to keep you protected from bullets then why not the powerful vests. I must admit that i never used the vests and as such never bothered to read the description on them.

Azure
9th Sep 2003, 22:01
Just went and checked the descriptions in game; the lockpick itself gives very little, but your keyring says enough. The locks of JC's time use keys with two dimensional molecular patterns instead of our unweildy lumps of metal. This shows the need for fast congealing polymers, and I'd be suprised if each lockpick had an infinite resivour of fluid polymer in it, or that something that size could pick the lock other than through trial and error. I liked the lockpick and multitool systems though, don't really want them to change it - it made you consider whether opening that door is worth a lockpick, and if it is, do you value a rocket/LAM/bullet more or less?

As for the multitools, they're easier - something that size carn't have a large battery, and according to the description its detecting electromagnetic resonance then processing it and using frequency modulation to alter the flow of current inside the device. Don't know much but that doesn't sound energy conservative.

The armour though... I *think* its explained in its description, but I carn't be bothered to play through and find it. Might have something to do with structures that stiffen when an electric current is passed through... not sure though.

Trollslayer
9th Sep 2003, 22:08
The Ballistic Armour's description is as follows:


"The Ballistic Armour is manufactured from electrically sensitive polymer sheets that intrinsically react to the violent impact of a bullet or an explosion by "stiffening" in response and absorbing the majority of the damage. These polymer sheets must be charged before use; after the charge has dissipated they lose their reflexive properties and should be discarded."

exo
10th Sep 2003, 23:56
Where's the rechargeable version?

Thing lasts like less than a minute.

crimson_stallion
11th Sep 2003, 08:14
Originally posted by God From Machine
Well i don't know if anyone else thought of this but, What if the balistic vests were nano augmented vests. I mean your aug for balistic protection used power and ran out so why not a vest that turns on and off. Besides to me, by the look of JC and the other augmented agents they could already be wearing conventional kevlar armour and the vest is just an extra.

Just makes sence to me that if the internal nanos you have need to use power which will run out to keep you protected from bullets then why not the powerful vests. I must admit that i never used the vests and as such never bothered to read the description on them.

I think the important thing here is "that turns on and off". You can turn the vest on in deus ex, but you cant turn it off again. This means that ifyou want to use it for 5 seconds, you have to use up the entire vest, which is annoying. I dont mind if they make up some nano-excuse for it, as long as it can be used as needed. I tend to think its abit silly that a vest should have a time limit, and be able to be turned on, but not off.

The lockpicks didnt bother me badly, they just got annoying at time, thats all. The vest IMHO was practically useless though. I think they would have been better off not having one and just include ballistic protection as a standard aug (that starts at level 1) and uses energy instead. Maybe they will include it as a biomod in this form in IWAR?

AlteredGlyph
11th Sep 2003, 15:13
I just got an AWESOME idea. Each armor takes one space. It lasts for about a 1-3 minutes. After its used, you dont discard it, you recarge it with Bioelectric cells. That way, you can carry only a few of these armor pieces, and still be protected.

Trollslayer
11th Sep 2003, 15:24
Disposable armor has its uses when taken into context, which i think was the case in DX1. The BA and the Thermoptic Camo were better suited for critical situations, not prolonged use. You'll notice that sometimes you could save health and ammo by using a Camo or BA in large, enemy-ridden areas (NSF generator warehouse, for instance, you could enter by the rooftops and descend into the main computer room with a Camo; in the secret MJ12 lab with Ford Schick, you could also do most of it with a Camo on; and for instance, using a BA for only running from NSF Commandos fire, etc.).

I personally think lesser armors strewn about, but with a on/off sort of toggle work better. Bullet-protecting and invisible-inducing augs existed, so transposing that augmentation technology into vests or armor strikes me as possible.

sackme
29th Sep 2003, 16:45
The fact that the lockpics are fast congealing pollimers means that they mould to a specific lock and wont work on another for that very reason:D

If you ask me if you want a door open and you know a guard is on the other side shoot it and the guard will open it for you.

Also you can stand at the side of the door and shoot them as they leave:D


SMILES EVERYONE SMILES, this is like some great fantasy!:rolleyes:

Xenon
26th Oct 2003, 09:42
Some complex tasks will require several multitools.

Well, that concludes the lockpicks/multitools part. Still hope for more traditional armor.

forgotten
26th Oct 2003, 11:31
Originally posted by AlteredGlyph
I just got an AWESOME idea. Each armor takes one space. It lasts for about a 1-3 minutes. After its used, you dont discard it, you recarge it with Bioelectric cells. That way, you can carry only a few of these armor pieces, and still be protected.

Good idea, though can i add that the armor should use a small amout of enery when on, but when you get hit a large chunk of energy drains, but you can still recharge it with your bio-cells...

Dr Strangelove
28th Oct 2003, 18:13
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by AlteredGlyph
I just got an AWESOME idea. Each armor takes one space. It lasts for about a 1-3 minutes. After its used, you dont discard it, you recarge it with Bioelectric cells. That way, you can carry only a few of these armor pieces, and still be protected.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That becomes almost the same as the ballistic protection aug though - ballistic protection from bioelectric cells.

AlteredGlyph
28th Oct 2003, 18:58
True, but you can wear one piece of armor at all times, and it only loses energy when it gets hit.

Dr Strangelove
28th Oct 2003, 20:50
That makes the aug pretty much outclassed, then - even if they did something to balance the two out they would still be doing very much the same thing. I suppose they do already, to a degree, but even more so if they both take bioenergy.

AlteredGlyph
28th Oct 2003, 23:43
It does make the aug pretty much outclassed, except that now ballistic protection is probably going to be passive, so it might not be as good as the aug. Also, it offers less protection.

Polaris
1st Nov 2003, 02:26
I agree that armor shouldn't be disposible in the same way that it is in DX1, I find it unlikely that "active" armor which could decay would totally outdate "passive" armor which basically just relies on the the molecular structure of the material. It should decay in some way, but not on a timer.

Comment:
"Do you think electronic devices will be so cheap that people will throw them away after a single use?"

Um... yes. That's not science fiction, that's the way the world is already going. You can buy a microprocessor for under a dollar now and power it short term for the same price. Some toys in happy meals and that type of thing are in this class of disposible electronics (the ones that talk). Also cards that play music. And as we have all observed electronics continue to get cheaper and cheaper. Just do a web search on disposible electronics. It's a field that's only growing.

I liked the DX1 system for multitools and lockpicks. Very simple, and very effective from a gameplay standpoint.

crimson_stallion
1st Nov 2003, 13:00
I think they best way for this would be if there was a form of
bio-electric source. Something like biocells, but biobatteries or something. These things could operate all things, from electronic lockpicks, to multitools, to bio-powered body armours, etc.

Now, the way it could work, is that different items use up different amounts of bio-power. This way, because the power is a universally used thing, every type of such items relies on it. This means that rather then jsut wondering if you should waste a lockpick, or save it for later, you have to think about whether to use the bio energry to pick a lock, or to disable a camera, or to use the body armour for a while.

Perhaps this way, Alex could start the game with a multitool, a lockpick, body armour, etc, but jsut start with limited battery power. Possibly there could be a passive mod (i.e. skill) 'energy preservation'. The higher your level, the less energy these things use, hence the more locks u can pick, more cameras you can disable, longer you can wear armour, etc. Even the half-life/star wars style energy recharge machines could probably work here.

Xenon
1st Nov 2003, 13:44
If you want to see a fancy opinion about armor read statement 3 in my post in the "Difficulty levels" thread.
And penetration could be used to make more difference between ballistic protection and armor: armor could have penetration threshold(s) whereas ballistic protection biomod could provide with additional damage resistance. Not too realistic but I believe a proper explanation could be found.
A generic power idea is not too bad, but I this has some disadvantages: it decreases the diversity of items in the game and prohibits the type of items that use rare type of ammunition/power in small amounts (like crossbow darts with some rare and expensive poison that instantly brings a person unconcious).

BinarY
2nd Apr 2004, 04:07
I think we simply needn't bother with disposeable armor.

The simplest (and most realistic w/o giong into Rainbow6 territory) is simply to remove the health bar and replace it with an armor bar. Why? because once your armor gives out (in a theoretical scenario where your armor protects you 100% as long as the batteries last), once the batteries died you're pretty screwed, because nanobots or no nanobots, that bullet leaving a 3" hole in your brain won't leave you with 93% health...

This wouldn't complicate the game, but it would add a sorely-lacking element to the health/armor part of DX2 - selection... selection as in you don't have that health bar to fall back on once your bio-energy kicks out. And that means you have to select between becoming a 1-shot kill and using Bot Domination and getting that menacing-looking turret out of your way. Scary stuff.

On a side note, I really don't know whether I miss or am glad at the fact that you no longer enter keys by hand... On one side this is a feature to keep countless lamers from finding the codes on Google, as well as a memory-saver for the player (i know, needed for XBOX). ON the other hand tho I miss taking out my English notebook with randomly scrawled numbers and locations and spending 15 minutes browsing through it in order to find a door code I picked up in a random DataCube. Plus there are fond memories of sitting in front of a closet lock for 3 hours trying to guess the code, and joyfully walking away with my prize - a medkit and 2 boxes of pistol ammo... (I seriously did that BTW).

About Universal Ammo, I both like it and hate it... I hate it because once you run out you fall back on the sword, but love it because certain ammo types are rare, so universal ammo opens up @$$loads of tactical opportunities. What I want in DX3 is semi-universal ammo, i.e. standatdized ammo types arranged like this:
Rockets/Grenades (ammo not standalone)
Large-Caliber Bullets (Machine gun + shotgun + sniper with sniper consuming ~ 10 bullets per shot and shotgun ~7)
Small-Caliber bullets (SMG + pistol)
Selectable darts (a single dart carries charges of explosive, non-lethal toxin and flammable, with the player choosing between the 2) [Note: Possibility of hacking a weapon to use 2 or 3 types at once]
Powered melee weapons ammo (batteries?)(melee weapons with EMP/Stun charges like stun prod or an electrified sword) [note: additional profit from Duracell endorsements =P ]

HappySmurf
5th Apr 2004, 15:33
This seems like the right place to put this, and I didn't want to go back through all the posts to see if someone else had put this, but I figured out who was hanging in the Templar ending!

It was an Illuminati Elite Trooper. If you notice, in the game they all wear dark gray/charcoal, but in the Illuminati ending they are wearing white.

RaboonTheBaboon
17th Apr 2004, 14:16
Thing is, as previously stated, it is all about gameplay, it means u have to manage your items efficiently, and means that you can usually only chose one path if there are various paths... for example a multitooled or a lockpicked route both leading eventually to the same goal, but each giving different goodies on the way. also if your one who likes to go all out, why didn't you haul the GEP along for a ride and blow them damn doors down, that way you've got more choice.. unless ofcourse you use quicksave before exploring either route... cheekiness.
:) first pooost.:)