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NamelessOne
23rd Aug 2003, 07:02
I had some questions about DX:IW that I hadn't seen asked and I wondering if anyone knows.

1. Will we still be able to play black/albino/etc characters in DX:IW, or are we just stuck with male Alex/female Alex. I thought it was a very cool feature in Deus Ex that too few games implement. The reason I ask is that in all the art I've seen, Alex is white. :confused:

2. The plot. Spector said in an interview that the game will not shy away from recent events (referring to terrorist attacks). I hope this doesn't mean DX is going to continue the recent trend of trying to 'cash in' on peoples feelings by making the plot a generic "Kill the bad terrorists!! For your country!" type thing. Releasing it on a console might also contribute to the above... Anyone know more about the plot?

3. Multiple ways of doing stuff. Its been said that the game will have shorter levels :mad: and be more focused on the action. DX was great because it wasn't a generic shooter, is the game heading in that direction?

4. Skills/Augs. Since there are no skills anymore, how many Biomods will a player be able to install over the course of the game? I hope it will be many more than the original to make up for the lost skills.

Thanks.

DarK-VenoM
23rd Aug 2003, 08:39
1. I don't know :)

2. Well, it's said you can join up with any faction (am I right?). If this is possible, you can also join up with the *bad* terrorists :).

3. I think not. The game may have shorter levels, but you should also be able to play it the *sneaky* way to avoid much of the action (not?).

4. Dunno...

Picasso
23rd Aug 2003, 09:18
Will we still be able to play black/albino/etc characters in DX:IW, or are we just stuck with male Alex/female Alex.

We don't have any details, but I believe the developers have said there will still be a good selection of player appearances. Hair color, skin color, etc. (in addition to gender).


I hope this doesn't mean DX is going to continue the recent trend of trying to 'cash in' on peoples feelings by making the plot a generic "Kill the bad terrorists!! For your country!" type thing.

Seeing as how there are multiple factions you can join or work for in DX2, I'd imagine that exactly who the bad guys are would be kind of a gray area.


Its been said that the game will have shorter levels

Originally posted by DrLoomis here (http://www.forumplanet.com/planetdeusex/topic.asp?fid=2757&tid=660681):


maps are not smaller than in dx1, and even if they were it wouldnt be b/c of the xbox. anyone who saw our demo at e3 (which was running the EXACT same content on both the xbox and the pc) knows that we can put a LOT of stuff in a dx2 map.

Continuing...


and be more focused on the action. DX was great because it wasn't a generic shooter, is the game heading in that direction?

I don't know where people get the idea that DX2 is becoming a generic shoot-em-up. In almost every interview with the developers they mention how you can play through the game without ever touching a weapon, and so on.


Since there are no skills anymore, how many Biomods will a player be able to install over the course of the game? I hope it will be many more than the original to make up for the lost skills.

There are 19 active biomods (switch-em-on, switch-em-off, they take up power) just like there were 19 augs in DX.

There are an unknown number of passive biomods (on all the time, don't take up power) that affect things like hacking and swimming. They're basically skills, just a lot easier to manage (no math getting in the way).

If you search through old PDX forum threads, you can find DrLoomis (a designer on DX2) stating that there are "tons and tons" of noncombat biomods that they're keeping under wraps for the time being.

exo
23rd Aug 2003, 15:17
I'll say this. I'll be VERY disappointed in spector and the dev's if words like Sept. 11, iraq war code names, WOMD are used.

I mean the power goes out, reporters mention sept. 11. A bus full of children fall off a cliff. Sept. 11. Man. I live close to New York but for the love of god give it a rest.

Lawnboy360
23rd Aug 2003, 15:48
I highly doubt something so specific would be in the game.

DarK-VenoM
24th Aug 2003, 10:34
Originally posted by exo
I'll say this. I'll be VERY disappointed in spector and the dev's if words like Sept. 11, iraq war code names, WOMD are used.

I mean the power goes out, reporters mention sept. 11. A bus full of children fall off a cliff. Sept. 11. Man. I live close to New York but for the love of god give it a rest.

what does this have to do with topic?

Bio Denton
24th Aug 2003, 14:25
Originally posted by exo
I'll say this. I'll be VERY disappointed in spector and the dev's if words like Sept. 11, iraq war code names, WOMD are used.

I mean the power goes out, reporters mention sept. 11. A bus full of children fall off a cliff. Sept. 11. Man. I live close to New York but for the love of god give it a rest.

Yeah, maybe they should stop making games and films about WW2, Desert Strike, Vietnam, etc aswell? The concentration camps alone in WW2 were a thousand times worse than the WTC.

All the good games, in my opinion, are at the very least, loosely based on reality. They aren't including major events in recent history to whine on about it. They are adding them so that the players can relate the game to things in reality, to make the game seem more realistic and give it more depth.

That is what I think anyway.

DarkPhoenix
7th Sep 2003, 01:56
I have no fear, personally, of too much 9/11 metaphor. I'm picturing something close to the Statue of Liberty in DX I. Maybe you'll visit the site, maybe not. And just because Warren Spector says he won't shy from something doesn't mean he'll rush headlong into it.

God From Machine
7th Sep 2003, 02:22
Well when i hear "will not shy away from an issue" what i think he meant was that he will not remove evil and terrorists from the game because of 9/11, iraq, etc. When it happened how many things on tv and movies had to be changed as to not traumatise the amarican public.

I think he meant that the game will be just as it would be otherwise, it will have terrorists who you can either kill or not at your own disretion, he will not forse it in either direction or leave it out because it would not be pollitically correct. He probabbly could have said "the game is what it is and too bad" and meant teh same thing

Picasso
7th Sep 2003, 02:58
FYI, DX2 had been in production for over a year when 9/11 happened. They had to have a good bit of the game's story decided by then, terrorist attack or no.

crimson_stallion
7th Sep 2003, 03:05
One thing i would love would be recreation of some deus es scenes in DE2. Maybe include a couple of orignial locations fom deus ex ias multiplayer maps (if there is multiplayer) or maybe when you finish the game it could unlock some 'classic mode' where you can run through some original deus ex levels with the updated interface, graphics, etc. I would absolutely LOVE to play the original deus ex game with updated physics, graphics, realistic lighting, etc.

I think it would be asking alot for ION storm to completely remake the game though. Maybe they could make a gold edition once the game has been out for 6 months or a year or whatever and in clude IW as well as a remake of the orignial. If not, then maybe some modders could get together and make a total conversion that turns Invisible war into deus ex.

Sorry, i know this is way off topic, but the idea jsut came to my mind. The original was such an increadible game, and the only things that werent great about it were probably technical aspects, such as graphics, sound, physics, lighting, animation, etc. If ion storm released a deus ex remake, id pay the new game price (about AU$90-$100) for that alone.

Anohter thing that crossed my mind... since deus ex 2 and theif 3 are being built pretty well simultaneously, it woudlnt surprise me if they use similar engines. Deus ex may easilly use a similar "stealth" engine to theif 3. If you think about it, it would be cost effective for them, and i think the system would be deus ex quite well. What do you think?

As for the sep 11 thing, i agree. I think its rediculous and simply dis-tasteful how much they seem to go on about these things. September 11 was all over the news, and this is fair enough as it was a big event. However, it was also a tragic event, and the fact is that people now are making movies, videos, etc about it, and unfortunately ithink the only reason why they are doing this is to 'cash in' on the whole thing. To attempt to cash in on such a tragedy is simply in very bad taste IMHO.

Unfortunately it seem sto be human nature though. If you think about it, every time a trend is started, people suck the life out of it until it dies. Some examples:
1) aliens - a couple of movies here and there, none that were really great. The 'Alien' films come out, fair enough. Then independance day makes a fortune. Suddenly poeple think "wow people want to see aliens", so we then see a million alien films released, which goes on to entirely make us all so sick of the whole topic we never want to see it again.
2) vampires - dracula comes, buffy, blade, etc. These are acceptable. Again "hmm people like vampire things". Now, how many vampire movies /shows have been made in trhe last 2 or 3 years? Yet again, makes us so sick of it we never want to see another vampire in our lives.
3) WW2 - flight sims are popular. Microsoft releases combat flight sim, based on old WW2 planes. Few other WW2 flight sims here and there, then Day of defeat, but in moderation. Its still fun. Then people see chance for profit, and now in the last 3 years there have been a million games based on either WW2 dogfighting or WW2 ground warfare (or both).
4) Matrix - first we get matrix, then we get max payne, and now EVERYONE wants to be matrix. Every action movie has 'bullet time', every sci fi movie has guys with glasses and long black trench coats.
5) Fast and the furious comes out, fast cars, fights, crook cops and chicks. What then? People start makign games adn movies emulating fast and the furious. The though of the film 'biker boys' just makes me shudder in disgrace.

The point? As soon as someone comes out with an idea, and its successful, others see this as a chance to make rip-offs. These rip-offs may be good, but they suck every bit of life out of the topic until you just never want to see it again. Why cant people try to think of new ideas? Deus ex was a realatively original idea. So was system shock. So were DOD and Medal of honour. So was CS. The (relative) originality contributed alot to making these games great. Same can be said about Matrix, neverwinter nights, etc. These games had relatively new ideas / storylines /concepts at their times, and thus they were interesting. Fast and the Furious seemed somewhat low budget(by holywood film standards) and this is part of what made it good. It was different, and it didnt seem to be TRYING to be anything. The sequel came out, and it was a lamo,
over-holywood-ised cash in.

Unfortunatly this cycle never stops, and the same is true with tragic events like september 11. When sep11 happened, and when princess di (sorry if i spelled that wrong) passed away, these events were all i heard about here for about 4 or 5 months. This is despite the fact that I live in australia, which is acountry not conected to either of these events. Why did they talk about these things? To inform people? no. After 1 or 2 months everyone had all the info they needed. They go on about it because it sells papers, it gets ratings, etc. Many game developers follow the same path.

Random
7th Sep 2003, 03:51
DX2 and Thief 3 are using the same technology (graphics engine, physics, the same guy is doing the AI for both games, etc.). Obviously it will be used slightly different in both games, but it's the same stuff.

crapo
7th Sep 2003, 07:24
1. Sigh! U guys are unbelievable! Me no wanna play the game cos Alex is white. Get a life man! 99% of gamers are white so get used to it. But hey! I've got an idea: put very dark sunglasses on while playing and then everybody looks black! :cool:

MR X
7th Sep 2003, 19:43
2. The plot. Spector said in an interview that the game will not shy away from recent events (referring to terrorist attacks). I hope this doesn't mean DX is going to continue the recent trend of trying to 'cash in' on peoples feelings by making the plot a generic "Kill the bad terrorists!! For your country!" type thing. Releasing it on a console might also contribute to the above... Anyone know more about the plot?

All Spector meant was that hes not going to avoid terrorist content or the use of terrorists in his stories because its a touchy subject. For instance, hes not going to take away the option to join the terrorists simply because someone might be offended.

Just a personal opinion to be thrown in, but people would only be offended by the "terrorist" content because the word "terrorist" has been used so much in the media lately...I'm sure any "terrorists" in deus ex2 will have different agendas than those responcible for sept 11.

MR X
7th Sep 2003, 19:46
Sigh! U guys are unbelievable! Me no wanna play the game cos Alex is white. Get a life man! 99% of gamers are white so get used to it. But hey! I've got an idea: put very dark sunglasses on while playing and then everybody looks black!

He wasn't complaining, he was commenting that it was a cool feature, and he hopes it will be available again. I agree with him. I don't think its even necessary to explain how retarted your comment was crapo. How about actually understanding someones post before making a very ignorant comment in an attempt to insult them, when there isn't even any reason too!

Le`Sauveur`De`Ces`Dames
8th Sep 2003, 08:08
that's kind of fun. 3 month ago, this foorum was very quiet and polite, with people discussing without feeling a need to exchange bad words.

Now the release date is closing (cross fingers), there seem to be a lot more people a lot less polite on this forum.

that's sad, I wouldn't want this forum to llook like the Diablo forum.


99% of gamers are white

oh, I'm pretty sure it is more like 99.999999999% or 125%

crimson_stallion
8th Sep 2003, 10:42
Originally posted by crapo
1. Sigh! U guys are unbelievable! Me no wanna play the game cos Alex is white. Get a life man! 99% of gamers are white so get used to it. But hey! I've got an idea: put very dark sunglasses on while playing and then everybody looks black! :cool:

If that was a serious comment, then its as stupid one. Saying 99% of gamers are white is like saying that 99% of the vehicles on the road are white.

The original had the option of changine skin colour, and I would also like the ablity to make this choice for Invisible War. If a game is so stongly based on its immersion factor and non-linearity then the option should be given.

The Corinthian
9th Sep 2003, 01:38
Originally posted by crimson_stallion

4) Matrix - first we get matrix, then we get max payne, and now EVERYONE wants to be matrix. Every action movie has 'bullet time', every sci fi movie has guys with glasses and long black trench coats.


Errr, just look at the main character in DX1 man...

Anyhow, if we all look back to the early news about this game, we can see in the August 2001 issue of PC Gamer, that different racial characteristics will be allowed in character creation. I haven't heard anything to the contrary, so you should be able to be black/Asian/etc.

Picasso
9th Sep 2003, 09:33
From this recent Gamespy preview (http://www.gamespy.com/previews/september03/dxinvisiblewarmulti/index2.shtml):


Once things finally loaded up, I had a few choices to make about my character. You've got six different Alex Dentons to choose from, covering different combinations of sex and race. I went with the African-American male.

crimson_stallion
9th Sep 2003, 13:25
Originally posted by The Corinthian
Errr, just look at the main character in DX1 man...

Anyhow, if we all look back to the early news about this game, we can see in the August 2001 issue of PC Gamer, that different racial characteristics will be allowed in character creation. I haven't heard anything to the contrary, so you should be able to be black/Asian/etc.

Yeah I know. I read an interview with Warren where he said he made that look before matrix was released though. Apparently when matrix came out he was like "ohh nooooooo" but didnt have enough time to change the look lol.

The Corinthian
9th Sep 2003, 18:41
Picasso: Thanks for that little update, I really haven't been keeping up to date with things...

Crimson_Stallion: Well, JC is so much cooler than Neo could ever hope to be since his "powers" work in reality, and we don't have to see his pasty white bum in a movie.

NamelessOne
12th Sep 2003, 03:43
Originally posted by crapo
1. Sigh! U guys are unbelievable! Me no wanna play the game cos Alex is white. Get a life man! 99% of gamers are white so get used to it. But hey! I've got an idea: put very dark sunglasses on while playing and then everybody looks black! :cool:

Wow. I'm guessing after you were born your parents realised why inbreeding is bad?

And though you obviously thorougly researched your facts, I doubt 99% of gamers are white. Have you ever heard of Asia? Huge gaming market there.

God From Machine
12th Sep 2003, 03:50
Nameless i think you just spoke for everyone with a mind of their own in that last comment. Great to hear some intelligent comments once and a while.


At least we avoided the diret racism here but perhaps some of us (*hint hint 99% of gamers are white*) should be a little careful about which stereotypical comments we make. Just a thought as i'm sure even in this forum there are several ethnical groups reading and posting.

Le`Sauveur`De`Ces`Dames
12th Sep 2003, 14:07
hmmm maybe we should just forget and go on with the real topic, since this seems to have left topic. (and this is looking a lot like the beginning of something baaad)

bye the way, does anyone else know which are the 2 other ethnic types of Alex you can choose? 6 Alex means I think 3 male 3 female. at least one is afican-american, one must be white, but what about the third? Or may the 3 female and 3 male come from 6 ethnic groups?

El Padrino
12th Sep 2003, 15:07
Originally posted by NamelessOne
3. Multiple ways of doing stuff. Its been said that the game will have shorter levels :mad: and be more focused on the action. DX was great because it wasn't a generic shooter, is the game heading in that direction?

This is a concearn I've seen brought up time after time here, but really, what would be so wrong with shorter levels? Are levels that are shorter than the levels in Deus Ex somehow inherently, inescapably worse than levels that would be just as long or longer? Do bigger levels automatically mean better levels?

I agree that you can fit a whole lot more in a large level than in a small one, but does more in a particular level necessarily make that level better? If a level is big enough and has enough for what was intended, why argue for more for the sake of simply having more?

I don't know about you, but if I have to get from a diner in Seattle to the post office or whatever in the game, I'd rather just walk across the street than 3 blocks away unless that 3 block journey can somehow be made significantly more interesting and meaningful. Otherwise, the level designer is just wasting my time.

Le`Sauveur`De`Ces`Dames
12th Sep 2003, 15:34
and by the way, what does shorter level have to do with the game being more action-oriented (which it won't be, as it has already been said a LOT)

coldblue
12th Sep 2003, 15:43
I think "action" is a poor choice of wording. They're talking about how there will be more things for the player to DO, more choices for them to make, not more opportunities to shoot things.

PDenton
12th Sep 2003, 15:48
Once things finally loaded up, I had a few choices to make about my character. You've got six different Alex Dentons to choose from, covering different combinations of sex and race. I went with the African-American male.
I would have thought that there owuld be more than just three different races that you could play as. I mean DX had five. Perhaps it mean that there are six different races and then you have the male and female.:D

Originally posted by coldblue
I think "action" is a poor choice of wording. They're talking about how there will be more things for the player to DO, more choices for them to make, not more opportunities to shoot things.
No I think that the word used by Namelessone was action. Besides there is still the option of going in guns blazing for those people who just want a standard FPS. That doesn't deplete it for us, because it has already been said that there will be loads of side missions for you do do to boost the playing time.:p

God From Machine
12th Sep 2003, 15:52
Well since we're on the topic there is something i was wondering. Are the levels themselves limmited in size or just the ready loaded sections limited in size. For example, in dx1, there were several places in the same level where you had to load the rest and you could not interact with two sections at once, ie shoot a window in the other section and when you go to it it willnot be broken because it is loaded from the hard drive, put into memory, and is separate from what you shot although it is designed to look the same. For the xbox anyway there would certainly be a constraint on the memory so you could only load so much at one time, same for mid rage pcs.

So are these smaller levels meaning that there will be smaller exploration or that when you leave a section it will have to load in the other section separately so it fits into ram.

sneelock
12th Sep 2003, 18:02
i think in one of the game reviews(check out lawnboys thread "recent previews"), it mentions that you can aproach an area from different angles. so i guess that the game would constantly load what you were aprroching. also in the game spy review the said that when they hit the street agian that the frames dipped, suggesting that it reloads all the time.

coldblue
12th Sep 2003, 18:56
Originally posted by PDenton
I would have thought that there owuld be more than just three different races that you could play as. I mean DX had five. Perhaps it mean that there are six different races and then you have the male and female.:D

No I think that the word used by Namelessone was action. Besides there is still the option of going in guns blazing for those people who just want a standard FPS. That doesn't deplete it for us, because it has already been said that there will be loads of side missions for you do do to boost the playing time.:p

Not sure what you're talking about. I believe that NamelessOne was referring to a Warren Spector interview where he said something to the effect of "the game is more focused on action". I think that quote has been taken out of contest and made people think its just gonna be a shooter. I'm saying WS was referring to something else.

Picasso
12th Sep 2003, 19:02
I think Warren was referring to player actions driving the plot. I.E. you dictate the plot by your choices and actions, rather than in DX, where a significant portion of the (linear) plot was just told to you, like you were reading a book.

If anyone still thinks that DX2 is going to be a no-brainer straight action generic shoot-em-up game, then let me ask them:

1. Why is the team making sure that you can play through without ever touching a weapon?
2. Why is there three times the dialogue that there was in the first?

El Padrino
12th Sep 2003, 20:46
Originally posted by coldblue
I think "action" is a poor choice of wording. They're talking about how there will be more things for the player to DO, more choices for them to make, not more opportunities to shoot things.

Now that I think about it, I don't think more opportunities to shoot things would necessarily be a bad thing, since at the same time, you'd still and also be presented with more opportunities not to shoot things.