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Foot2132002
20th Aug 2003, 18:23
Catman closed my poll about multi-player!!! I wonder why? Maybe because he knows, as many of us do, that Deus Ex won't be the same without it. Sure, it came a little after the initial release to add it; but, it was MUCH more complete with it. Let me help clue EIDOS in on something. Everything is going online. This includes Consoles and PCs. Why would you make a game in 2003 and not have some sort of online, multi-player feature? Bad marketing.
I would have never picked this game up had it not been for multi-player; now they are taking that away!!! Sorry, if I ruffled your fur catman, but you need to calm down and declaw yourself so you can realize that a healthy chat about this might eventually allow EIDOS to realize their mistake.

Samhain
20th Aug 2003, 19:18
There have already been several discusions about multiplayer for DX:IW. From what I have gathereed so far it will probably not ship with Mp. If MP is the only way you will buy it then that is your loss. This will be a great game with or without it.

Picasso
20th Aug 2003, 19:25
Definitely not shipping with MP, and it's "unlikely" that they'll release it later.

If multiplayer is THAT important to you, why not go play games designed for it?

ISA is dedicated to releasing an excellent singleplayer experience. IMO, multiplayer (just another deathmatch game amongst the hordes) would be a waste of their time, and ours.

PDenton
20th Aug 2003, 19:45
Originally posted by Foot2132002
Catman closed my poll about multi-player!!! I wonder why? Maybe because he knows, as many of us do, that Deus Ex won't be the same without it. Sure, it came a little after the initial release to add it; but, it was MUCH more complete with it. Let me help clue EIDOS in on something. Everything is going online. This includes Consoles and PCs. Why would you make a game in 2003 and not have some sort of online, multi-player feature? Bad marketing.
I would have never picked this game up had it not been for multi-player; now they are taking that away!!! Sorry, if I ruffled your fur catman, but you need to calm down and declaw yourself so you can realize that a healthy chat about this might eventually allow EIDOS to realize their mistake.
Maybe you should just go get any old FPS if all you want is the multiplayer. I mean the weapons are nothing spectacular and the graphics are using the Unreal engine. The thing that made Deus Ex what it was, was the almost unique non-linear single player maps. Besides I'm sure that they will eventually come out with the upgrade for multiplayer as they did with Deus Ex. Personally I think that I'd prefer them to release a good single player game sometime soon rather than spend another few months making a multiplayer for it when it is released. :(

By the way Catman probably closed your poll for a good reason, normally he's fairly lenient and will let things go by or simply edit it unless its serious.:D


*EDIT*

I've looked at the thread and Catman didn't actually close your poll, I think that he just didn't want a flame war to erupt over something that we all know won't be changed, weather you like it or not - Just a word of advice, as this is just your second post, I find that ultimatums don't tend to get one very far.

Sense
20th Aug 2003, 21:26
Yea, I don't even plan getting the game-- I would have to spend a ton of money to upgrade to even play it decently and then in a year I would have a ****ty system again..

Maybe if it had multiplayer and wasn't shorter than dx 1.. They say you can replay it more but I'm calling bull**** and it won't be nearly as fun once you've already beat it once..oh well, I'm just one person.

Lawnboy360
20th Aug 2003, 21:33
I don't understand all those people saying "I don't play games unless they have multiplayer, even if they are some of the best games ever". Looking at my games, I see ton of no-mp games I enjoyed : Alice, Undying, Grim Fandango, GTA3, Vice City, Max Payne, Thief... not to mention that I couldn't care less that Deus Ex, Freedom Force, No One Lives Forever, etc, had multiplayer.

Anyone with me or I'm just strange?

Foot2132002
20th Aug 2003, 21:39
Please get some education. It's whether; not weather.

What is sunny or raining?

[SYN] Nexus
20th Aug 2003, 21:57
Im sure Catman had very good reasons to close your poll since he is doing an awesome job as a moderator here.And if you only buy MP games then dont but DX2.Btw Multiplayer mode is not good at all in DX1.Its the story and cool characters what made the game a classic

Random
21st Aug 2003, 00:44
I don't understand why people want everything to be multiplayer anyway. As Warren Spector himself said, there is still so much to be done with singleplayer games.

cball05
21st Aug 2003, 02:15
Originally posted by [SYN] Nexus
Im sure Catman had very good reasons to close your poll since he is doing an awesome job as a moderator here.And if you only buy MP games then dont but DX2.Btw Multiplayer mode is not good at all in DX1.Its the story and cool characters what made the game a classic

Yes, yes, and yes. Don't know what else to add...
*backs away sheepishly*

Nazo
21st Aug 2003, 04:46
Originally posted by Foot2132002
Catman closed my poll about multi-player!!! I wonder why? Maybe because he knows, as many of us do, that Deus Ex won't be the same without it. Sure, it came a little after the initial release to add it; but, it was MUCH more complete with it. Let me help clue EIDOS in on something. Everything is going online. This includes Consoles and PCs. Why would you make a game in 2003 and not have some sort of online, multi-player feature? Bad marketing.
I would have never picked this game up had it not been for multi-player; now they are taking that away!!! Sorry, if I ruffled your fur catman, but you need to calm down and declaw yourself so you can realize that a healthy chat about this might eventually allow EIDOS to realize their mistake.

Half Life.

EDIT: Let me clarify a bit. Half-Life had very sucky MP when you first got it. Just a few junky maps that you could run around in and shoot at each other in. They weren't particularly big or interesting maps, and if you wanted that kind of thing you were much better off with things like Unreal Tournament or Quake. Later they added some very nice modules (such as, do I have to say it, CS...) Anyway, HalfLife is very well known for it's single player experience.

Sense
21st Aug 2003, 12:23
Originally posted by Random
I don't understand why people want everything to be multiplayer anyway. As Warren Spector himself said, there is still so much to be done with singleplayer games.

It will be a good game, no doubt. It's just not worth the money to upgrade to play the game, then have the system you upgraded to not even run it that well and in another year that system can't run any new games and is basically ****. It's going to be shorter though and without multiplayer, very little replay value -- for me at least. Once I've beaten it, it's not nearly as fun to go back through it.

agent008
21st Aug 2003, 13:48
well i did not read what most of the above people said but this is what i have to say:

the first game had no mp and it was still a great game i dont care about mp anyway

when the first one came out with the goty edition it had mp so maybe the dx 2 will have a goty with mp aslo so thats the end of this discussion:rolleyes:

dirigimaster
21st Aug 2003, 22:35
Well, I thought DX MP sucked, and its good they are focusing on the single player

Dragosani
22nd Aug 2003, 19:32
Originally posted by Lawnboy360
I don't understand all those people saying "I don't play games unless they have multiplayer, even if they are some of the best games ever". Looking at my games, I see ton of no-mp games I enjoyed : Alice, Undying, Grim Fandango, GTA3, Vice City, Max Payne, Thief... not to mention that I couldn't care less that Deus Ex, Freedom Force, No One Lives Forever, etc, had multiplayer.

Anyone with me or I'm just strange?

I'm with you. I loved Undying, but it's lack of MP support caused it to fail (sales wise that is). Thus, there will be no sequel.

I really don't care if DX:IW has MP support. I never used it in the first game, see no reason to use it in the second. I'll stick to the games that were designed specifically for MP (BF1942/DC) when I want MP. DX is a SP game, and I have no problem only playing it as SP.

Just curious, what is the point of the poll?

Edicius Tsaf
22nd Aug 2003, 19:40
Well, normally i hate single player games, but DX doesnt need one.
Well, i played it one time, and it sucked that much, that i never touched it again:D
Its just a fps in MP, more like a HalfLife mod with appearance of DX.

Sense
22nd Aug 2003, 21:40
Originally posted by agent008
well i did not read what most of the above people said but this is what i have to say:

the first game had no mp and it was still a great game i dont care about mp anyway

when the first one came out with the goty edition it had mp so maybe the dx 2 will have a goty with mp aslo so thats the end of this discussion:rolleyes:

The first game actually did have MP, but it sucked ass -- they didn't spend much time on it (wasn't even finished) and it wasn't creative at all. It could've been a lot better.....Some independent coder fixed more bugs than the actual coders did.

DX was a great game, the best PC game I've ever played... but I didn't have to upgrade to buy it. If I didn't have to upgrade, I would definitely buy dx:iw.

Since I do have to upgrade, it's not worth it at all since it doesn't have MP and it's shorter. A CREATIVE AND FINISHED version of MP would've added much needed depth to the game, in my opinion.

Like I said before, it's going to be shorter. Replaying it just to see small differences isn't worth the time; it's going to be basically the same whatever way you do it. Not worth the money to upgrade...

Sajentine
22nd Aug 2003, 22:14
Its been my experience that RPG MP games do not have any depth. SP does because it can actually have an inteligent story line that drives you to keep going. So far it seems that all RPG MP games are just one big shoot em up made for people to have a community to chat with while doing something fun.

I don't think DX is the type of game made to be MP. It simply isn't suited towards it. If you're into MP fine, buy a game thats made for MP, but its quite ridiculous that some people expect that every game that comes out have an MP "feature", and then proceed to whine and complain when it doesn't. Either enjoy the game for what it's going to be or don't buy it, don't post that you won't buy it and don't sit around complaning to a bunch of people who like it for what it is. Go to an MP game's boards and tell them whats wrong with there game.:mad:

as always.


Sajentine

Picasso
22nd Aug 2003, 22:35
Like I said before, it's going to be shorter. Replaying it just to see small differences isn't worth the time; it's going to be basically the same whatever way you do it.

I'm not going to cut-and-paste the longass quote again, but you can read it here (http://www.forumplanet.com/planetdeusex/topic.asp?fid=2757&tid=660681). And seeing as how this "shorter" game has approximately three times as much dialogue as the first, I don't see how replays mean "small differences".

By the way, if you're judging new games based on whether you have to upgrade to play them, you're going to run out of new games very quickly.

VodunLoas
23rd Aug 2003, 02:15
Actually, some coders got together and made an mp for dx for themselves. Then IS caught on and tried to fix it up a bit, then shipped it off with the GOTY. I will buy DX2 if it has an mp or not... but really wish it could have both. I love the mp also, but only the community had to kick in and fix all the bugs (thanks to smuggler).
Most you you probably don't like mp, because you got your ass kicked from the start. Yes, that will happen. Happend to me, but you learn to become great at it if you try. Going up against real players instead of dumb npcs, is a lot more fun and challenging.
Single player also kicks ass, why would I have bought the first version, before the GOTY edition! It got old so I had it away for about a year, then started to play it again. I found the mp patch online, so I downloaded it and played. Been playing mp ever since. I now know how to map and code for dx, so it's a lot of fun.

Lawnboy360
23rd Aug 2003, 12:40
Most you you probably don't like mp, because you got your ass kicked from the start.

It's not that I don't like MP; I played CS everyday for 2 years (and didn't get my ass kicked). But I wouldn't have paid for it.

PDenton
23rd Aug 2003, 17:10
I agree I don't not use the multiplayer because I get my ass kicked. I don't play the multiplayer because its' a load of rubish. I mean there's nothing you have to think about in it, like in the SP maps, just run around aimlesslt blowing people up with a GEP gun! :(

If they released some co-oprative missions that a group of people could play a game together, eg one specialises in hacking, ones a sniper, etc. That would be interesting. But like I said before on its own the DX multiplayer was just the same as Unreal with different weapons. :eek:

Le`Sauveur`De`Ces`Dames
25th Aug 2003, 08:29
I got my ass kicked, so I would certainly not pay for it.

crimson_stallion
28th Aug 2003, 11:10
Originally posted by Foot2132002
Please get some education. It's whether; not weather.

What is sunny or raining?

When typing casual messages on forums, many people tend to not concentrate all THAT much on grammar and spelling. Put simply, who cares? The important thing is that you know what he/she means.

Le`Sauveur`De`Ces`Dames
28th Aug 2003, 11:14
hmmm spelling may be important for people to understand what you mean. as I said (I don't remember in which thread), people whose mothertongue isn't english may have problems to understand if you don't spell correctly, especially if the word you miss-spelled is similar to an other existing word. (not everybody pronounces english without accent, and a lot read english a lot better than they speak it)

hmmm I'm not sure I was clear, here.

crimson_stallion
28th Aug 2003, 11:18
Originally posted by Sense
The first game actually did have MP, but it sucked ass -- they didn't spend much time on it (wasn't even finished) and it wasn't creative at all. It could've been a lot better.....Some independent coder fixed more bugs than the actual coders did.

DX was a great game, the best PC game I've ever played... but I didn't have to upgrade to buy it. If I didn't have to upgrade, I would definitely buy dx:iw.

Since I do have to upgrade, it's not worth it at all since it doesn't have MP and it's shorter. A CREATIVE AND FINISHED version of MP would've added much needed depth to the game, in my opinion.

Like I said before, it's going to be shorter. Replaying it just to see small differences isn't worth the time; it's going to be basically the same whatever way you do it. Not worth the money to upgrade...

I think Deus Ex could have really had some great multiplayer potential. When you look at things like the ability to have augs, allocate skill points, the need to shuffle with inventory (cant carry every weapon at once) andthe ablities to manipulate security cameras, turrets, etc, i think it really could have been excellent if implemented well.

BUT

If they tried too hard to get the MP good, without any more time to work on it (they no doubt had a strict schedule to meet a set release date) then the single player would have probably died as a result. I rarely play MP games. I fou ask me, the best way to do it is to focus on one thing for a game. either make it MP oriented (i.e unreal torney/Quake 3) or make it single player oriented (i.e. NOLF, Deus Ex). Work on that one aspect, and make it top. If deus ex had an above average MP ability, many people woudl have stayed with Q3, UT and CS anyway. Multiplayer is very hard to be particularly different in. Most MP games are the typical walk, shoot, deathmatch style. They may have other modes (assault in UT, capture the flag, etc) but generally it is hard to make a MP-oriented game unique. For single player however, anything that can be physically done on a computer is doable. You dont have to worry about things like dropping graphics levels or reducing physics and models for better badwidth etc.

The way i see it specialise in one area. Deus Ex did just just, oriented on SP, and i think that is what made it so great.

Xcom
28th Aug 2003, 12:14
Originally posted by Foot2132002
Catman closed my poll about multi-player!!! I wonder why?

That's 'cause you have no respect for bunnies and teddys. http://home.planet.nl/~xcom/forum/sm/rpt.gif



Originally posted by Lawnboy360
I don't understand all those people saying "I don't play games unless they have multiplayer, even if they are some of the best games ever". Looking at my games, I see ton of no-mp games I enjoyed : Alice, Undying, Grim Fandango, GTA3, Vice City, Max Payne, Thief... not to mention that I couldn't care less that Deus Ex, Freedom Force, No One Lives Forever, etc, had multiplayer.

Anyone with me or I'm just strange?

You forgot Morrowind. Other than that, you're pretty normal. :D

Lawnboy360
29th Aug 2003, 22:17
You forgot Morrowind.

That's because I can't play it on my current PC (but I'd certainly like to).

Trollslayer
8th Sep 2003, 20:59
Originally posted by Foot2132002
Catman closed my poll about multi-player!!! I wonder why? Maybe because he knows, as many of us do, that Deus Ex won't be the same without it. Sure, it came a little after the initial release to add it; but, it was MUCH more complete with it.

Actually it wasn't. It didn't helped the game in the least. The game was a hit without the multiplayer. The later-released MP component added nothing to the game experience, neither did it increase sales, neither did it made gamers flock over to it.


Let me help clue EIDOS in on something. Everything is going online.

Not everything, son. And regardless, the fact that there's an increased interest in online doesn't make it that everyone has to follow it - people aren't going to break down the entire gaming market and rebuilt it to suit the needs of people who go online; as much people go online, there's an almost equal number of people who don't. Also i believe Eidos can make up their own mind, and don't need clues like those.


This includes Consoles and PCs. Why would you make a game in 2003 and not have some sort of online, multi-player feature?

So it won't be yet ANOTHER shooter with an MP component? *rimshot*


Bad marketing.

Actually its good marketing. By standing out from the competition in presenting a quality title, with a good and large SP component, and presenting a gameplay that was not derived from all other no-brainer shooters in the market (in fact, rewarding you for not playing it like traditional FPSs), while not making an MP component because it would not - and did not - do the game justice, was what made the game excell. Furthermore by not making an MP version, and totally lose its potential MP player base with other existing titles such as Diablo 2 Unreal Tournament or Half-Life (not counting other titles played around much more), resource allocation made the game shine in SP, and not be watered-down to accomodate both SP and MP. Even more, standing itself apart from shooters with a different gameplay than the rest, than presenting it to an online community who is better known for using dislexic grammar and having more skill in outright fragging than stealth, *that* would be the bad marketing.

Of course, whining people asked for an MP component which was not only very buggy when compared to other games at the time, it made the game feel mundane by ripping it apart from context and making it like any other shooter, with modified maps as a means to same-old, same-old fragging "fun". I thank you and your species for begging for an MP mode, destroying a game's aspect while considering yourselves to be right :mad:


I would have never picked this game up had it not been for multi-player; now they are taking that away!!! Sorry, if I ruffled your fur catman, but you need to calm down and declaw yourself so you can realize that a healthy chat about this might eventually allow EIDOS to realize their mistake.

With that attitude it won't. Solitary, anonimous people over the net don't make multi-million companies see the errors of their ways with informal, holier-than-thou, gramatically chalenged posts.

And just because you wouldn't picked up the game if it wasn't for MP, doesn't mean everyone else would do the same. Companies should never insist on releasing an MP component of a game if it won't please the online crowd. And, no, just because 100 people played it doesn't mean it was well-accepted.

Kthnxbye, have a nice life.

slicer
9th Sep 2003, 21:36
Originally posted by Xcom
That's 'cause you have no respect for bunnies and teddys. http://home.planet.nl/~xcom/forum/sm/rpt.gif
:D

Catman may be evil but he is definitely a gentlemen who makes logical decisions and act upon them accordingly through the years I have known him through the DX community so I am somewhat disappointed to see someone start such a poll against Catman :) DXMP has been a touchy subject since it was introduced and from my experience through the old and new ISBB (Ion Storm Forums), discussions regarding DXMP has often resulted in a foul exchange of words.

The ISA team have already gone through severals interviews and such with Warren expressing his reasons why there are no plans for MP...


Quoting myself from Ion Storm forums (http://www.ionstorm.com/forum/viewthread.asp?forum=AMB_AP619612110&id=13976)
I'd probably be one of the first to object against MP ideas on DX2 (those that know me should know what I'm gonna say :p).
DXMP was an add-on patch for DX under community request if I remember correctly and I've pretty much been on the highs and "pathetically" lows on the DXMP community to realise that such add-ons without the correct resources or support will lead it to a dead end. I recall someone from ISA (Chris or Warren) mentioning that the patch was released
1) as Beta
2) to give them a taste of what MP is like and whether it will prove to be a success.
Unfortunately, it was overrun by bugs (hence it was forever classified as beta, never a final release), which took DXMP to an end after the announcement of no further patches would be released after 1.112fm. The DXMP community was pretty much in shambles when the potential servers keeping the MP game alive started to disappear (GameSpy, NGUK, etc…). Server hosting companies aren’t willing to host servers for DXMP, not because it wasn’t popular, but the way the game was coded needed further work into it, since the resource handling in DXMP (and the out-of-date Unreal engine) killed server resources and there was a tendency of server crashes.

Before anyone attempts to point their finger ISA and blame them for not tidying up DXMP, read above again before continuing. DXMP was coded on top of DX, a SP game that most likely had no underlying code to support MP at all. You will probably gather that it would be difficult to do pick out the thousands of line of coding to support MP, considering that ISA was producing DXMP at their own dedicated time and that DX2 had to be worked on sometime soon. MP games are also not simple to produce.
Apart from producing the MP aspect of the game, those producing the MP needs to ensure that the code is tightly packed and perfected to prevent bugs and exploits from leaking out. If you look at other MP games including Counter Strike, RtCW, BF1942, etc… why are there a constant release of patches? Why are there anti-cheat systems introduced? If you haven’t figured by now, there are always a small batch of players who are keen on exploiting and cheating. Go and ask those working on patches and anti-cheat systems and see how much time they spend on getting it made… they are constantly working on it. ISA may have the dedication but I doubt time will be on their side.

If you look at DX2, it will most likely be coded as a SP game with no MP support (ignore the engine support, I am referring to the game code itself ;)). With DX2 being more sophisticated and DXMP not working out as planned by ISA, releasing MP is risky because:
1) the need to modify / create new code will create bugs (assuming no one is perfect). Where there are bugs, there are possible exploits including cheating, or annoyances including server crashes. It requires a lot of time and devotion to eradicate these whereas time can be spent, imho, on something more useful like the point below.
2) if DX3 is approaching somewhere on the horizon (based on the assumption that deusex3.com has been bought already :eek: ) there will be little time.
With MP already proving to take up a lot of resources and that DX is based on the success of SP (it was originally targeted for SP anyway), let SP stay in the trend for DX, I’d rather see a great SP game rather than see another attempt at MP where there are possible negative outcomes like DXMP.
My 2 cents.

There have been several discussions over at Ion Storm forums (http://www.ionstorm.com/forum) with the ISA team browsing through the forums often. Check out the latest MP Thread (http://www.ionstorm.com/forum/viewthread.asp?page=3&pagesize=20&forum=AMB_AP619612110&id=13976), I'm sure many people have the same views as you but the reasons for why MP will not be released should be logical.

[SYN] Nexus
13th Sep 2003, 15:15
Pointless poll I hope this topic will be closed and deleted as well.

Sylvester Ink
13th Sep 2003, 16:18
I know that all this arguing about mp support has gotten really old by now, but I might as well put in my own two-cents while I'm here.

DXMP definitely did have it's flaws, but I did enjoy it quite a bit. (Although nowhere near as much as sp.) The thing that made it fun for me was that I played with only two other people on a LAN. There was no lag, and since there were three of us sneaking around big huge maps, it preserved the tension and cunning of sp. With only three of us, there was more strategy involved than there was running around and firing at everything that moved. As an ordinary deathmatch game, DXMP was horrible. But as a "sneakmatch" it really wasn't too bad.

In any case, DXIW is meant to be a single-player game, and that's fine with me. Whether the developers add mp support or not is also fine with me. But I would prefer that if they did add it, they would do it in a future patch or update. That way they could focus on the sp experience as they should. (And as they are, no doubt, doing.)

Oh, and Catman, you're doing an excellent job as moderator, no matter what the others say. (Daily Suck-Up ;-) )

pcgamez
13th Sep 2003, 17:15
O well, i agree it will still be a gr8 game without, but it will be even better with multiplayer! i think that it would encourage more sales from the public too, becuase nowadays people like multiplayer games!
PCGamez (http://www.pcgamerz.tk)

Trollslayer
13th Sep 2003, 17:31
Originally posted by pcgamez
O well, i agree it will still be a gr8 game without, but it will be even better with multiplayer! i think that it would encourage more sales from the public too, becuase nowadays people like multiplayer games!
PCGamez (http://www.pcgamerz.tk)

Nowadays people like reality shows, tasteless jokes, naked women, they begin to tolerate women kissing, they also like drugs, violence, drinking and gambling. Should we put them on DX:IW? No.

And people have got to stop this ridiculous idea that MP is the saviour of PC gaming. We need better gameplay, not people shooting each other on yet another game online. Thats overdone. Move on.

Lawnboy360
13th Sep 2003, 22:42
Nowadays people like reality shows, tasteless jokes, naked women, they begin to tolerate women kissing, they also like drugs, violence, drinking and gambling. Should we put them on DX:IW? No.

And people have got to stop this ridiculous idea that MP is the saviour of PC gaming. We need better gameplay, not people shooting each other on yet another game online. Thats overdone. Move on.

Hell yeah :)

Sylvester Ink
14th Sep 2003, 03:01
Originally posted by Trollslayer
And people have got to stop this ridiculous idea that MP is the saviour of PC gaming. We need better gameplay, not people shooting each other on yet another game online. Thats overdone. Move on.

Agreed. And somehow people always start being repetetive when playing multiplayer, which makes it boring, so they find the need to be jerks by cheating in some form or other for their entertainment. It seems that the thing that makes mp games so fun (the other players), is the thing that also makes them so annoying.

As Trollslayer mentioned, multiplayer games aren't the be-all-end-all of gameing. Gameplay is.

Sadokitty
14th Sep 2003, 14:01
Multiplayer in Deus Ex 2 would be pointless... DE2 isn't the kind of game that would work well in multiplayer, if it's going to be similar to the original Deus Ex, so any multiplayer mode would end up just being a fairly useless thing, and not really comparable to all the bigger and better games designed mainly or at least partially for multiplayer.

If anyone's played the original DE in multiplayer with the patch, I think they'll probably what I mean - it's not very good at all, whereas the single-player game is excellent. :) I'd prefer an excellent single player game with no multiplayer to a single-player game with multiplayer that is just average. ;)

Xcom
14th Sep 2003, 15:17
Originally posted by Trollslayer
Nowadays people like reality shows, tasteless jokes, naked women, they begin to tolerate women kissing, they also like drugs, violence, drinking and gambling. Should we put them on DX:IW? No.

What's so wrong with (naked) women kissing?

Trollslayer
14th Sep 2003, 15:46
Nothing, really. But just because people like something, that doesn't mean it should be included in a game.

Specially not when it's already hard not to take any heat because of hypocrits always looking for reasons to attack games, due to them having mature themes.