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Kain's Ancient Blade
11th Aug 2003, 01:42
Now I know Amy has said and it's been repeated by everyone and their mother that Raziel won't be rostored, so before i get ripped apart by someone read this post first.
What if once the game is completed you get to play as prefallen Raziel, like other games have alternate costumes this game could have prefallen Raziel. It would give the game great replay value, which is severely lacking in a lot of games today. I think it's a great idea. Who knows maybe you could also put Kain in one of his armor suits, or give him the BO 1&2 look. I would love to play through Defiance as Lt Raziel. I think it's a great idea and would be a great addition to the series.
I mean look at the Spiderman game. Once you beat it you can play through the whole game as the Green Goblin. And in Ps1 spiderman games the webhead has 10 alternate costumes. There's also Resident Evil 0,1,2,3,Veronica, Silent Hill, Onimusha, TombRaider, and god knows how many other games have them.
Its a way to play as Lt Raz without having to damage the Story.
I hope this was already incorporated into the game. I think it would be really awesome.
What do you all think?

LOK series. My anti-drug.

Umah Bloodomen
11th Aug 2003, 01:48
I don't think I would be opposed to it in this sense, however in the RE-scenario, you have other aspects of the story to learn about when playing as say, Ada, for example. As far as Lt. Raziel and his story is concerned, it's trivial at this point. Move forth.

If it remained as a code-based reward for completing the game (much like the extras were at the end of SR2) or a code that you implement prior to completing the game (like the iron-armor/soul reaver code of BO2), that would be alright too. A bit of a novelty thing, IMO. Nothing really wrong with that. :D

Kain's Ancient Blade
11th Aug 2003, 02:46
Actually story wise I don't want Raziel restored, well not restored to his former self. I just think Lt Raz has a badass look to him, and it gives me reason to play through the game more than once. Even though I'll definately play through the game more than once just to see all the cutscenes over and over again and to understand the story better. But it will give some variety to the replay value of the game.

vampire of balance
11th Aug 2003, 04:04
Originally posted by Kain's Ancient Blade
Now I know Amy has said and it's been repeated by everyone and their mother that Raziel won't be rostored, so before i get ripped apart by someone read this post first.
What if once the game is completed you get to play as prefallen Raziel, like other games have alternate costumes this game could have prefallen Raziel. It would give the game great replay value, which is severely lacking in a lot of games today. I think it's a great idea. Who knows maybe you could also put Kain in one of his armor suits, or give him the BO 1&2 look. I would love to play through Defiance as Lt Raziel. I think it's a great idea and would be a great addition to the series.
I mean look at the Spiderman game. Once you beat it you can play through the whole game as the Green Goblin. And in Ps1 spiderman games the webhead has 10 alternate costumes. There's also Resident Evil 0,1,2,3,Veronica, Silent Hill, Onimusha, TombRaider, and god knows how many other games have them.
Its a way to play as Lt Raz without having to damage the Story.
I hope this was already incorporated into the game. I think it would be really awesome.
What do you all think?

LOK series. My anti-drug.
Don't you see how ridiculous is that? Lt Raz with wraith blade... Lt Raziel goin to spectral realm... Lt Raziel possessing corpses... Ahhg that's stupid ..

L_Master562
11th Aug 2003, 04:36
Lt. Raziel would be the corporial form, it would be better though if the spectral version of him because unless it became twisted and warped, it wouldn't fit into the spectral realm. The Blade could become the Soul Reaver in the physical blade form for Lt. Raz and wraith in spectral. Easy solutions to solve the problem. I've been pro-extras all along. I was overjoyed when Bo2 had the Iron Armor.

I would just prefer a more flashy access interface for them though. Lke an armory or some location that would seem worthy of holding stuff like the Pillars/Sanctuary of the Clans/Kain's Base of ops/etc that would have Bo1 style ending/item/weapon cards but more interesting to use whatever you had unlocked or some other style of actual choice instead of codes to turn stuff on. If not a menu like in Metroid Prime would also work with the simple on/off switch menu.

Then again, an ingame option of accessing things before allowing a menu or something would work for initial access like in Re with the sidequests or special items to unlock things after meeting certain quotas. Any way I get the easter eggs though I would be happy as long as yellow ducks don't start chasing after me when getting the stuff.

jsnmcdrmd
11th Aug 2003, 06:20
Originally posted by Kain's Ancient Blade
Now I know Amy has said and it's been repeated by everyone and their mother that Raziel won't be restored, so before I get ripped apart by someone, read this post first.
What if once the game is completed you get to play as prefallen Raziel, Its a way to play as Lt Raz without having to damage the Story.
I hope this was already incorporated into the game. I think it would be really awesome.
What do you all think?

LOK series. My anti-drug.

I beleive you've hit it on the mark and yes it would be beyond awesome, it would be revolutionary, but a little too late maybe. Already such things as "shift at will" won't be added to the game, or that's what I've read early on, and why haven't we the option to play Lt. Raziel? Because maybe that may be in store for the next game. Who knows except for Amy and her crew. Well, maybe just Amy.
If there is another by popular demand, and they take ALL of our suggestions, make the game on 2 or 4 discs, rest assured we wouldn't see it for at least 2 - 3 years later.

:eek: Jsn. :eek:

Lady_D
11th Aug 2003, 13:10
Hey, I'll take anything that has Raz in it! Prefallen or SR,It doesn't matter to me! :D Am I an addict or not?!

Kain's Ancient Blade
11th Aug 2003, 15:27
Don't you see how ridiculous is that? Lt Raz with wraith blade... Lt Raziel goin to spectral realm... Lt Raziel possessing corpses... Ahhg that's stupid ..
I would appreciate if you didn't call my suggestion stupid. You could of just said "I just don't see that working".
And I said Lt Raz would be a bonus. And no, I don't see how ridiculous it is. Its just a way to play game again using the same character, but a different look. I think it would be way cool.

Thanks everyone else. I liked to here what everyone has to think about it.

I beleive you've hit it on the mark and yes it would be beyond awesome, it would be revolutionary, but a little too late maybe.
Who knows maybe it's been planned from he beginning and I've just uncovered a plot by CD. There so devious.

Lady D we're all addicts. It's all good though.

LOK series. My anti-drug.

Evelin The Winged
11th Aug 2003, 16:48
I like that idea. I sure hope that there'll be a cheat menu-probably not, but you never know!

vampire of balance
11th Aug 2003, 19:17
Originally posted by Kain's Ancient Blade
I would appreciate if you didn't call my suggestion stupid. You could of just said "I just don't see that working".

I didn't mean to insult you, SORRY !!! But how do you see Moebius model for Kain's role(Moeby is one of my favourite characters). Doesn't sound right to me. LOK games are not some freaky arcades and I don't wanna see some stupid situations like Moeby swings the BR in an air combo :D If CD are serious enough, they are not goin to allow this.

jsnmcdrmd
11th Aug 2003, 19:57
Originally posted by vampire of balance
(Moeby is one of my favourite characters). Doesn't sound right to me. LOK games are not some freaky arcades and I don't wanna see some stupid situations like Moeby swings the BR in an air combo :D If CD are serious enough, they are not goin to allow this.
It amazes me on how quick you are to judge another for expressing a good idea, not only are you insulting but opionated.
I don't know about you but Moeby is a subserviant. I wonder if the characters we like (to be) in the game reflect a part of our true selves. That would make me Kain and more than willing to shove this Blood Reaver through your chest. And have Lt. (Dead) Raziel inhale your soul. And guess what? It'll happen.

And hell, why not have Lt.Raziel in the physical realm with a whatever reaver (and full wings restored) and have him shift into the spectral as the Soul Reaver with the wrath blade. And/ or vice verse. And they should open with Raz inhaling Moeby's soul out through his nose. :eek: :D :rolleyes: :mad: :p

vampire of balance
11th Aug 2003, 20:40
Then go play Spidermen with Cinderella costume :)....

Playing with diferent costumes in LOK game will ruin all mysticism and magnificence on it and will turn it into mindless arcade like Spiderman.

Its allright to me if there is bonus levels with VampRaziel BUT diferent from the original ones(maybe showing some fights before the SR1 intro). It will be great!!!

PS: And yes I am a dirty little ***** just like Moeby :p

Moeby is one of my favourite characters
In fact every single LOK character is one of may favourites..

jsnmcdrmd
11th Aug 2003, 21:19
Originally posted by vampire of balance
[B]Then go play Spidermen with Cinderella costume :)....
Playing with diferent costumes in LOK game will ruin all MY mysticism and magnificence VIEWS on it and will turn ME into a mindless arcade GAME like, I'M STUPID MAN.
PS: And yes I am a dirty LOOSE little ***** just like Moeby :p

Well, Playing Spiderman as Cinderella, I'd definitely kick some step sisters' & mother's ass. Sin-derella web slinger.

Mind you, so you seem to be out numbered on this idea of having options to try new ways of game play. You must be the type of person when he/she rents/borrows a new game he/she doesn't beleive, in the Gameshark or Codebreaker, that once your finished the game (ie Devil May Cry 2) it is wrong to play it out in a different outfit or be able to play it out as a different character altogether? Am I getting close here?

Let's just pretend for a moment the somehow this Lt. Raziel thing was actually going to happen in this release, would you:
1) "I'm not taking this *****, I'm not playering it" And not play it.
2)"I'm not appologising for my actions" Though we could be right.
3)Play it and complain about something else that the game didn't stand up to your expectations
4) What do you think 4 should be? :rolleyes:

vampire of balance
11th Aug 2003, 21:45
Originally posted by jsnmcdrmd
You must be the type of person when he/she rents/borrows a new game he/she doesn't beleive, in the Gameshark or Codebreaker, that once your finished the game (ie Devil May Cry 2) it is wrong to play it out in a different outfit or be able to play it out as a different character altogether? Am I getting close here?

YEAAAA :D Thats the case. I have only replayed Blade of Darkness(cause of combat) Drakan(dozen times :) ) Half-Life and every LOK game(to understend the story bether), maybe Defiance will put some replay value with its challenging combat system.

Anyway our little controversy is pointless cause Im sure "funny costumes" are not goin to be part of the game.
Im off here!!! :cool:

jsnmcdrmd
11th Aug 2003, 23:34
I'm sure "funny costumes" are not goin to be part of the game. I'm off here!!! :cool:

Your probably right with the different costumes, we wuzz all just dreaming, oh, and if your looking for other vampire or good combat games, check out Devil May Cry 1 & 2, I like the different ablilties of combat each character has and the sets.

Cheers,
Jsn. :p

Rhodon
13th Aug 2003, 15:15
It would be REALLY cool to play as Lt. Raz, but like before his damnation. The game would star like whew years before he got his wings (I think the gameplay would be really different from the common LoK-games we know) and offcourse, end when he, well, goes and takes a very unhealthy bath...

I would just drool over the TV-set when that kind of LoK- game would be released...:eek: :rolleyes: :D Raz is just so great! ;)

Kain's Ancient Blade
13th Aug 2003, 18:27
Originally posted by Rhodon
It would be REALLY cool to play as Lt. Raz, but like before his damnation. The game would star like whew years before he got his wings (I think the gameplay would be really different from the common LoK-games we know) and offcourse, end when he, well, goes and takes a very unhealthy bath...

I would just drool over the TV-set when that kind of LoK- game would be released...:eek: :rolleyes: :D Raz is just so great! ;)


As much as I would like to replay through Defiance as Lt Raz as and alternate costume, I don't think I would like to play through a game with gameplay taking place before the events of SR1, like playing as Raz before he got his wings. I prefer the series move foward and not go backwards. Even though technically it does go backwards with all the time travel, but you know what I mean. But I do hope in Defiance they show a flashback of Kain raising his Lt's. thats probably the only thing i would like to see when refering to Post BO2 and Pre SR1.

LOK series. My anti-drug.

Apocrypha Roxy
14th Aug 2003, 15:56
Well, as much as I like the alternate-costume idea (I've played Lucia's disc 2x with the Diesel costume, and unlocking the third, and am replaying Dante's disc with the Diesel costume on Hard to get Trish's costume), I don't think it would really fit with Legacy of Kain: Defiance.

Think about it. DMC2 (oooh, cussword!) has a simple story and ending. So you can do the whole costume bit and all. Defiance (as well as all LoK) has a deep complex story that doesn't allow for any changes (however radical/non-radical they may be) without altering the story altogether.

Thus playing as Lt. Raziel would kind of goof things up, although it would make a great laugh.
However, I thought it would be cool if at the end, there's a bonus 'level' or some such thing so you can play as the Ancient Raziel. Wings and all! Now, I don't mean Quiddich flying or stuff, but haven't you ever wanted to play Raz with functioning wings?

I dunno... it would be funny, but it would screw around with the story. Maybe just as an arcade whatchamacallit...

I always thought it would be cool if we had some sort of Tekken-Tag thing with LoK, Lt. Raz against Sarafan Raz (or Wraith Raz, but we all knows what happens when you pair him with his human counterpart) :rolleyes:.

Silly ramblings of mine... heh...

FLY RAZ, FLYYYYY!!! :D

vampire of balance
14th Aug 2003, 17:07
Originally posted by Apocrypha Roxy
Well, as much as I like the alternate-costume idea (I've played Lucia's disc 2x with the Diesel costume, and unlocking the third, and am replaying Dante's disc with the Diesel costume on Hard to get Trish's costume), I don't think it would really fit with Legacy of Kain: Defiance.

Think about it. DMC2 (oooh, cussword!) has a simple story and ending. So you can do the whole costume bit and all. Defiance (as well as all LoK) has a deep complex story that doesn't allow for any changes (however radical/non-radical they may be) without altering the story altogether.

Thus playing as Lt. Raziel would kind of goof things up, although it would make a great laugh.
However, I thought it would be cool if at the end, there's a bonus 'level' or some such thing so you can play as the Ancient Raziel. Wings and all! Now, I don't mean Quiddich flying or stuff, but haven't you ever wanted to play Raz with functioning wings?

I dunno... it would be funny, but it would screw around with the story. Maybe just as an arcade whatchamacallit...

I always thought it would be cool if we had some sort of Tekken-Tag thing with LoK, Lt. Raz against Sarafan Raz (or Wraith Raz, but we all knows what happens when you pair him with his human counterpart) :rolleyes:.

Silly ramblings of mine... heh...

FLY RAZ, FLYYYYY!!! :D
WOW!!! Compleatly agree with this!!!:D Actualy I was trying to say exactly the same thing, but I'm studing English since 2 months ago and CAN NOT express myself very well.
Well put Roxy!!! Thank you :)

Osyris
14th Aug 2003, 18:10
i think roxy has come up with a really cool idea with the LoK beat'em up thing. i dont expect it'll ever happen but its still a cool idea.

as for the whole extra costume idea from KAB i think thats pretty cool too. i dont think that it'll mess up the story any as an optional extra.

Kain's Ancient Blade
15th Aug 2003, 15:31
Originally posted by Osyris
i think roxy has come up with a really cool idea with the LoK beat'em up thing. i dont expect it'll ever happen but its still a cool idea.

as for the whole extra costume idea from KAB i think thats pretty cool too. i dont think that it'll mess up the story any as an optional extra.

Exactly. Well said. Besides how can it mess up the story if it's an optional thing after you beat the game. I just see it as a way to play through the exact same game with a different look, but the same character. Just like playing through BO2 with the Iron Armor and the Soul Reaver, which in the game Kain was trying to reclaim.


Think about it. DMC2 (oooh, cussword!) has a simple story and ending
I'm so going to have to report you now. LOL
But look at the first game Roxy. You get to replay the game as the Legendary Dark Knight Sparda. Nothing about the story or dialogue has changed. It just gives you another way to play through the game.

LOK series. My anti-drug.

Umah Bloodomen
15th Aug 2003, 15:40
Better watch those cusswords in this forum...I'm watching you. :p

tomb_raiding
16th Aug 2003, 22:45
Yeah! Umah is in Command now :p

illicious
17th Aug 2003, 06:48
Will we ever see Raz with his Glyph powers back?

BTW, vampiric winged Raz game would be cool in the time where Kain was just real evil.

vampire of balance
17th Aug 2003, 07:40
Originally posted by illicious
Will we ever see Raz with his Glyph powers back?

Yes!! In Defiance Glyphs will be back, but they are no longer called Glyph, they will be Reaver abilities(just watch the last trailer :) it shows light and fire reaver blasts that resemble SR1 glyphs)

Apocrypha Roxy
18th Aug 2003, 19:42
I didn't know so many people would agree with me! Just thought it was some silly rambling of mine that you'd all pooh-pooh...

So, do you think maybe they'd do a tekken-tag kind of thing? I'd love to see that... Kain kicking Kain's ass... masochism at it's finest LOL!

I never replayed DMC1, but now that you told me, I'm going to have to replay it to rock with Sparda! You know, when you're at low health and you use DT in DMC2, you're Sparda - he's got this kick-ass attack I LOVE it!

Breaking my own Cardinal rule again, lol...


Man, LOK: D is going to rock our worlds... can't wait...


*walks away, giggling about Kain kicking Kain's ass*