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Dancimanci
4th Aug 2003, 23:18
What was the best thing in deusex???
The reality.The reality in places,story and of course weapons.
And now they put tools like a hairdryer imstead of a LAW.
Please Warren and Harvey don't do this to us!
Where did the simple imaginable weapons go?

Guys....you're making ****!

If anyone can contact the guys upstairs(the ones who were in heaven at the time of DX1)tell them this


Exept for my mistakes,i'm hungarian:(

Picasso
5th Aug 2003, 01:05
Are you referring to the rocket launcher? I think it looks much better than DX's GEP gun, personally. I like the sleek look.

Trollslayer
5th Aug 2003, 01:29
Someone translate it please, my eyes are burning!!! :eek:

j/k ;)

PDenton
5th Aug 2003, 08:41
I'm not sure about this but I someone mention that all of the weapons in IW will be using the same ammo. :( As I've said though I'm not sure. could somone please tell me if this is true? :confused:

I've also been looking at some of the screen shots from IW and I agree with Dancimanci

And now they put tools like a hairdryer imstead of a LAW
Some of these new weapons look so unrealistic. I know it's supposed to be 15 years into the futurew but I don't see quite why the weapon systems are supposed to look so futuristic. Just give me back my old pistol and sniper rifle.

Le`Sauveur`De`Ces`Dames
5th Aug 2003, 10:32
yes, I've heard that too.

at least, I've READ that too, but only here on this forum. does anyone have a link to a written interview where this has been said?

cball05
5th Aug 2003, 13:39
It's also completely possible that the weapons could be changed before the final release - if I was a dev (which I am not :D ) I would worry about the game first and fix the models later.

Random
5th Aug 2003, 15:41
Do you want to mention which specific weapons you think look bad? I think the flamethrower is the only one that needs redoing; the rest look fine.

Picasso
5th Aug 2003, 19:10
I'm not sure about this but I someone mention that all of the weapons in IW will be using the same ammo. As I've said though I'm not sure. could somone please tell me if this is true?

I keep hearing people say this, but have yet to hear it from a developer, or even a preview. I have no idea where it got started.

It certainly could be true, but I've never seen any evidence for it.

Dancimanci
5th Aug 2003, 19:58
Well you're wright....the flameth. is the worst,but the others are fancy too(pistol).

Yeah,just give me back the original pistol and sniper.Or at least somethin' like that.
(Not this futuristic,it's too much)

Random
6th Aug 2003, 02:44
Originally posted by Picasso
I keep hearing people say this, but have yet to hear it from a developer, or even a preview. I have no idea where it got started.

It certainly could be true, but I've never seen any evidence for it.

I think it started with a report from someone who played the game at E3. They could have misunderstood, I guess. In any case, no one knows exactly how this unified ammo will work if it is true.

Picasso
6th Aug 2003, 02:50
Actually, if you look closely at the E3 videos you can see that reloading was disabled for the demo. Whenever the player ran out of ammo it was magically refilled, without any reloading animation or anything.

I guess my point is that ammo might have been unified at E3, but since there was no reloading at E3 either, we can't very well take it as an indication of how the game will actually play.

Anyway, just two months (or so) until all is answered.

DarkForge
6th Aug 2003, 09:30
Surely all the weapons wouldn't use the same ammo? I mean, come on: how stupid would that be?

Think about it: you have all those different weapons using the same ammo stock, and different weapons would probably have different ammo consumption rates. It would mean that once you run out of ammo for one weapon, you run out of ammo for all of them.

If all your weapons had the same ammo supply, all your relative weapons would become effectively useless pretty quickly. I suppose it could add a sense of delicacy to a situation, as you'd have to constantly make choices about which weapon to use for a particular situation. But I personally wouldn't be able to accept this.

One of the best things about Deus Ex was its sense of realism (well, as realistic as you can get with genetically engineered NanoAugs :p ). Surely this ammo business would take away a lot of realism in IW.

The same ammo supply for a pistol and grenades? I think not...

Le`Sauveur`De`Ces`Dames
6th Aug 2003, 10:57
hmmm, maybe you should read all the posts above yours :


I think it started with a report from someone who played the game at E3. They could have misunderstood, I guess. In any case, no one knows exactly how this unified ammo will work if it is true.

no one knows

and by the way, I think everybody here agrees with you

(and I can't find where, but I think this has already been discussed somewhere)

PDenton
8th Aug 2003, 11:38
I've been looking at the screenshots and I'm not sure if its just a case of certain guns being turned off, but I can only see three different guns in the screenshots: :confused:

Pistol
Flamethrower
Some other gun

I know that there are various tools, grenades, etc in the game but surely there must be more than just these three weapons. :mad: Does anyone know of any other guns shown in screenshots?

However it looks like the flame thrower has a scope on it shown in another picture, so maybe it has multiple functions. If so then this gun could use one type of ammo for several different weapons, eg. machine gun, flame thrower and sniper rifle. This could explain why there are rumours of only one type of ammo. This is only speculation though, can anyone come up with any other reasons?

The pictures that I refered to were from the official Deus Ex site: www.deusex.com. There are probably more up to date pictures elsewhere though as I think EIDOS has forgotten about it.:rolleyes:

Trollslayer
8th Aug 2003, 13:25
Originally posted by DarkForge
Surely all the weapons wouldn't use the same ammo? I mean, come on: how stupid would that be?

Think about it: you have all those different weapons using the same ammo stock, and different weapons would probably have different ammo consumption rates. It would mean that once you run out of ammo for one weapon, you run out of ammo for all of them.

If all your weapons had the same ammo supply, all your relative weapons would become effectively useless pretty quickly. I suppose it could add a sense of delicacy to a situation, as you'd have to constantly make choices about which weapon to use for a particular situation. But I personally wouldn't be able to accept this.

One of the best things about Deus Ex was its sense of realism (well, as realistic as you can get with genetically engineered NanoAugs :p ). Surely this ammo business would take away a lot of realism in IW.

The same ammo supply for a pistol and grenades? I think not...

Actually, it wouldn't be "stupid" at all.

Its quite feasible to have all weapons (which use ammo, of course, melee and throwable weapons are out of the picture) to use the same ammo. Lets assume they all use, for example, laser (or plasma)-based technology as ammo. Hey, DX is a sci-fi shooter, so...

Small weapons (from the pistol to the automatic pistol) could use nano-generators to use plasma and fire it in segmented spaces, simulating recoil and manual/automated firing mechanics of standard pistols to simulate standard one-shot (or triple-shot) pistols (nanotechnology and cloning were already somewhat widely used in DX1, so plasma-based weaponry is possible). Other weapons, and their sub-groups, such as the sub-machineguns and machine guns, could operate on slightly bigger nanogenerators using a particle-accelertor to fire plasma at higher speeds (and also heating up the weapon possibly destroying it, an interesting gimmick for energy weapons that many games forget to exploit).

Other weapons, like a possible sniper rifle, are also possible. Given a mounted zooming, using infrared and/or heatvision for sniping, coupled with the same plasma based technology (but with increased propelling speed) is also possible.

Now the real problem as far as is concerned to me, would be rocket launchers, LAWs and heat-seeking portable missiles (and their launchers). I very much doubt these could be succesfully converted into the same plasma-based tech, because given their size, they'd have very, very large chances of blowing up. However, given nanotechnology is existant in DX1 (and obviusly in DX:IW), a rocket launcher could house a micro-generator for the plasma, coupled with a micronized refrigeration unit. How would this work? By generating the plasma at high speeds, but by maintaining it cool, it could be possible to amass a considerable amount of energy, propelling it outward and having it regain the heat on blast (as it exits, the refrigeration is shut down, allowing for the plasma to overheat again). Coupled with propellant speed, it could be done.

Grenades could also hold a considerable amount of plasma waiting to go off. Actually plasma-based grenades are probably the least complicated item to come up with.

Though i admit i have no idea for a heat-seeking type of missile running on plasma-based tech. Perhaps a standard rocket shell, holding plasma inside, but with a conductor that'd overheat the plasma as the head of the small missile touched something, making the plasma overheat to a point where it had to burst out of the standard rocket shell.

And lets not forget the game is after the first DX. Technology didn't exactly stood still. When technology advances, and presents more effective means of reaching past goals, there is no reason as to keep investing in old technology - in this case, we can (for now, at least) assume that technology has reached a point where improved weapons are existant, and "old" standard ammo has been replaced by more cost-effective, widely used and more productive technology.

Given IoSt are a good company, anything they can come up with in terms of ideas for ammo are good ideas. Not "stupid".

Random
8th Aug 2003, 14:14
Originally posted by PDenton
I've been looking at the screenshots and I'm not sure if its just a case of certain guns being turned off, but I can only see three different guns in the screenshots: :confused:

Pistol
Flamethrower
Some other gun

I know that there are various tools, grenades, etc in the game but surely there must be more than just these three weapons. :mad: Does anyone know of any other guns shown in screenshots?


This (http://www.deusex.com/screens/pc/fullsize/DXIW05.jpg) looks like a shotgun.

There's also a rocket launcher (http://www.deusex.com/screens/pc/fullsize/DXIW01.jpg).

And a sniper rifle (http://www.deusex.com/screens/pc/fullsize/DXIW03.jpg), also seen in the GameStar E3 video (http://www.gamershell.com/news_BDeusEx2Btrailers.shtml).

There are various weapons on the wall behind this guy (http://www.gamershell.com/imagefolio/gallery/Action/Deus_Ex_2/DeusEx2InvisibleWar18.jpg).

There may well be more in the game, but there's no reason why they'd show all of them in screenshots.

PDenton
8th Aug 2003, 14:36
I didn't know what the shot gun was, I refered to it as some other gun because It doesn't look particularly like any guns I would recognise. If you look at the icons down the side of the HUD then what you called the rocket launcher (http://www.deusex.com/screens/pc/fullsize/DXIW01.jpg) (second from the top) is the same as what I called the flamethrower (http://www.deusex.com/screens/pc/fullsize/DXIW06.jpg) (bottom). I did miss the sniper rifle. My computer wouldn't load that picture, but I can see it now.

That still only makes four guns.:(

Trollslayer
8th Aug 2003, 15:12
Originally posted by Random
There are various weapons on the wall behind this guy (http://www.gamershell.com/imagefolio/gallery/Action/Deus_Ex_2/DeusEx2InvisibleWar18.jpg).

The weapons behind him seem like a Shotgun (right behind him, notice the bulge on the lower part of the weapon, possibly pump-action), an Assault Rifle (upper right corner - notice the upper handle to allow easy transportation, plus a handle and an ammo clip right below; can't tell if its a normal or a bullpup design), and a Sniper Rifle (below the AR - notice what seems the scope above it, and the shoulder mount - plus no clips near the trigger).

PDenton
8th Aug 2003, 15:31
Originally posted by Trollslayer
The weapons behind him seem like a Shotgun (right behind him, notice the bulge on the lower part of the weapon, possibly pump-action), an Assault Rifle (upper right corner - notice the upper handle to allow easy transportation, plus a handle and an ammo clip right below; can't tell if its a normal or a bullpup design), and a Sniper Rifle (below the AR - notice what seems the scope above it, and the shoulder mount - plus no clips near the trigger).

I agree that there are weapons there but is is it possible to actually use these ones because they don't have the same new-age apperance as the other weapons I've seen in the screenshots. Mabee they're just for show, or possible they're old fassioned black market weapons. It would suit the character who's standing infront of them

Trollslayer
8th Aug 2003, 15:42
Actually the Shotgun, while not futuristic, doesn't seem to have a regular design as well. Seems to be a bit like a block, with a pump-action system. Reminds me of a H&K G11, only less of a blocky beast.

Lawnboy360
8th Aug 2003, 19:20
I don't know exactly how those "unified-ammo" worked, but Chris Carollo, lead programmer, posted in a thread on that topic on Ion Storm's boards that they had negative comments on this at E3 and they were thinking about changing "it".

Trollslayer
8th Aug 2003, 19:32
Yeah, they got mixed views, and they tended mostly to be negative. Guess its another one of those we have to sit out and wait.

Random
9th Aug 2003, 02:41
Originally posted by PDenton
That still only makes four guns.:(

What makes you think they'd include all the guns in screenshots, especially when the game is a couple of months away from release? They haven't shown all the biomods either, but we know there'll be more than the half dozen we've seen so far.

Random
9th Aug 2003, 04:04
There's another weapon shown in a scanned image linked to in this thread (http://www.ionstorm.com/forum/viewthread.asp?forum=AMB_AP619612110&id=20247). Looks plasma-rifle-ish.

Trollslayer
9th Aug 2003, 12:19
Originally posted by Random
There's another weapon shown in a scanned image linked to in this thread (http://www.ionstorm.com/forum/viewthread.asp?forum=AMB_AP619612110&id=20247). Looks plasma-rifle-ish.

Looks so indeed, very plasma rifle-like. Or it could be a Flamethrower. Or Grenade Launcher. Though i'm more inclined to think its a Plasma Rifle.

DarkPhoenix
2nd Sep 2003, 16:35
Personally, I think DX had too many guns. There were only a few I used at all, mostly because of how small the inventory was. I'd love to see a plasma rifle that was worth carrying. For such a futuristic weapon, it seemed to be less effective than most of the others. I would also like to see more grenade types than just the LAM, EMP, gas, and scramble. For example, flashbangs, incendiary grenades, maybe a remotely detonated grenade. And speaking of gas grenades, doesn't make sense to have a gas mask? The gas seemed to spread too far and too fast, and by the time the gas died down, the enemies recovered. Another thing that bothered me was if you shot someone in a gas cloud, and they fired back, they could easily hit you. This guy has gas burning at his eyes, yet has no problem hitting you in the chest (or wherever he likes)? So to summarize, I'd like a better plasma rifle, more types of grenades, better gas grenades and/or a gas mask.

MR X
2nd Sep 2003, 17:40
Is it just me, or didn't the development team cleary state that all the gun models used in e3 are

PLACEHOLDERS

and that they were going to be COMPLETLEY remodeled soon?
Meaning you are all wasting your time in this debate over "placeholder" weapons =p

PDenton
2nd Sep 2003, 18:54
I think that it wouldn't be too hard for them to change the weapon models. If they have loads of programmers then they could simply create new ones. As for the ammo, if what Trollslayer said about negative comments is true then they might indeed want to change it. Again thiss can't be too hard. All it is idd adding a load of cuboids to the lvels instead of whatever they already have.:D

Gruf
2nd Sep 2003, 21:11
I read in a preview in the international edition of PC Gamer about the unified ammo, how there would be one type for ballistic weapons and one for energy, so....
anyone here played Oni?
the guns in that were secondary to the martial arts, but it used the same system of unified ammo, and you could only carry 5 clips of each. as soon as you put a clip into say, a SMG, it was formed into 30 rounds of not too powerful SMG ammo, whereas if you put into the uber powerful mercury bow sinper rifle it became only 2 shots but they could kill almost anything...
in the end, it worked, and that is one of my favourite games...
so perhaps give it a chance