PDA

View Full Version : I Need Some Advice



Agent Rutherford
29th Jul 2003, 03:04
What would be the best platform to play the new Deus Ex on... I can play Deus Ex : The Conspiracy fine... but should I upgrade my system for the new game?? I have only 128mb of ram and 951 MHz AMD Athlon with XP Pro (Gateway) ..... I believe that I have this as a graphics card... NVIDIA GeForce MX/MX 400... Please guys correct me if I am wrong... I would love to be able to get my system ready before this game comes out.... I CANT WAIT!!!!!! Thanks... Go Bucks!!!!!!

Ductonius
29th Jul 2003, 04:06
#1 question when you're upgrading: What is your budget?

Agent Rutherford
29th Jul 2003, 06:36
Ductonius: Thanks for your reply. My budget... well I would like to be able to play this new game and recieve the optimum quality of gameplay. I would like it to be graphically sound... receiving full potential of what is in a new game of this caliber... I am only a student as of now, but my PC is a couple of years old... so I would not hesitate to spend a couple hundred bucks if needed... Including.... ram upgrade and graphics card... or whatever... I dont know a ton about this stuff but any advice you could give would be helpful... was I right on what I thought was my game card... the MX thing... Thanks for your help man..

Random
29th Jul 2003, 09:23
You will need a RAM and video card upgrade, definately. The CPU will probably be at the minimum level, but it might be okay.

This is what I know about system requirements: Ion say they're aiming for 30 frames per second on a P3-800 and GF3. You will definately need a new video card, because the Geforce 4 MX won't even run it. Your CPU is getting a bit slow, but you might be okay if you get a fairly powerful video card, like a Geforce 4 (a real one, not the MX version) or better. The good news is those are pretty cheap now. 512MB RAM is really the bare minimum nowadays too, and I wouldn't want it play it with any less.

Most importantly though, hold off on an upgrade until DX2 nears release (unless you want to play another game in the meantime) because prices on a satisfactory system will fall, and the deatils I have above might turn out to be wrong anyway. Save as much money as possible until then.

Agent Rutherford
29th Jul 2003, 17:54
Random: Thanks for the reply. I thought my computer was a bit out-dated. I know I will have to buy more ram... and now I know that a new video card will be needed... cool... one other question.... soo is the ram and the video card all I will have to buy for an upgrade? I will wait a bit for the prices to fall,,, but where should I buy the video card when the time is right? So,, if I buy the regular GE Force card... would I be using the game to its full potential or would a more expensive one make a difference.... I dont want to throw money away... I just dont want to miss a beat on this upcoming game.... Thanks :)

Agent Rutherford
29th Jul 2003, 18:07
Click on this link please (http://www.pricegrabber.com/search_getprod.php/masterid=780438/search=geforce%204/ut=411988bbc1d468aa) Should I buy this graphics card when the time is right.... Will it use the game to its potential... or should I buy a better one... THANKS FELLAS

charkosh
29th Jul 2003, 20:28
Frst answer me this: Does your motherboard have an AGP (accelerated graphics port)? It's usually brown and is set more toward the middle of the board than a standard PCI slot. If so, be sure and get an AGP card not a PCI card. I'd recommend the ti4600, or the geforce fx 5200, you can get the 5900, but if you're student I doubt you have the extra 500 bucks lying around.

-Justin

P.S. the geforce mx is just a souped up geforce 2 chipset, which is why it's such a crappy card.

Agent Rutherford
29th Jul 2003, 21:56
Thanks for your reply Justin. I have talked to Gateway support and they said I do have a AGP and they said my motherboard can take a max of 1.5GB w/ 256 megabit technology. I looked on ebay for prices and I found that the FX 5200 was cheaper than the ti 4600 ( which seemed a little odd. Should I buy this card? Click Here (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2744162356&category=40161) Thanks again for all of your help.

~Brad

charkosh
29th Jul 2003, 22:48
The geforce fx 5200 should work, the reason why it's cheaper than the ti4600 is because it's not as good, however it should suit your purpose. Anyway, hope I was of some help.
-Justin

Picasso
30th Jul 2003, 00:51
Hell, a Ti4200 is better than a 5200, and cheaper too.

Ductonius
30th Jul 2003, 01:36
Here's what I am planning to buy before the end of the summer:

Prices are in Canadain $.

Motherboard: A7N8x-X = ~$117
Processor: XP2500+ = ~$130
Ram: 2 sticks of DDR400 = 1024MB = ~$236
Vid Card: 9800pro 128mb = ~$450


~$933 Can

~ $700 USD

edit: just checked out new prices and availabilities.

Random
30th Jul 2003, 04:59
Originally posted by Agent Rutherford one other question.... soo is the ram and the video card all I will have to buy for an upgrade?

Based on what I've read about system requirements, the game should run well enough with a RAM and video card upgrade, yes. But since the game is still at least a couple of months off release, I really can't say how well it will run. I'm only basing my points on Ion's goal for system requirements, and no one knows if they'll reach that goal in the end. Like I said, it'd be best to hold off on any upgrade until we hear something official from Ion.


So,, if I buy the regular GE Force card... would I be using the game to its full potential or would a more expensive one make a difference.... I dont want to throw money away... I just dont want to miss a beat on this upcoming game.... Thanks :)

Just based on what I've read, a regular Geforce 4 (Ti4200 or up) should run it pretty well. I haven't been following the video card scene very closely for a while, so I don't know which is best value. Certainly the Ti4200s are pretty cheap now. Just be wary of Nvidia's new FX line of cards. Some are good, some are terrible. Just keep an eye on tech websites up until DX2 is released and make your choice then.

The other thing you need to consider is your power supply. Most new cards need a PSU higher than 300W, so make sure you find out how powerful yours is. A GF4 should be okay on a 300W PSU, but newer cards might need more power.

I'm don't really know much about tech, and these are just things I've read on various websites and forums. Hopefully it'll help you, but others will know more. Like I said, read tech websites.

I can't stress enough though: if you're only upgrading for DX2, wait until it's released before doing so. Prices can drop pretty sharply in a couple of months, so you'll save a lot of money!

Random
30th Jul 2003, 05:04
Of course, the other option is you buy an Xbox. It's guaranteed to run on that and both versions will be exactly the same, so you won't miss out on anything. Most good PC games released in the future will also be released on Xbox, so I personally think it's a very good option. I would buy one myself if I could afford it. ;)

Agent Rutherford
30th Jul 2003, 05:16
Hey guys, thanx a lot for the advice and reccomendations... I think my motherboard will only take SD ram... I heard that the DD or whatever is better... so I might change it to where I can get that 1110mb of DD ram; but I think I might just save some bucks and get to 500mb of ram or so... If that will be good enough... I will wait until the game is released until I make decisions but if you guys can remember let me know what would be the best route to go when the game is released. Or if you find some good deals on the video cards. What are some good tech web sites? Thanks again ~Brad

charkosh
1st Aug 2003, 19:32
it honestly just depends on your budget, I bought a
XP2500+
512 meg ram
ti4800 128meg
a7n8x delux
nice case/ 400WATT powersupply
(basically a system minus the hard drive)
for ~$800

BUT, I'm poor
you can buy an AWESOME system for 1.5k - 2k (e.g. top of the line if you build it yourself).
so it just depends on how much you wanna unload, I would recommend upgrading your motherboard, but that usually involves upgrading your case, powersupply, and processor.

P.S. DDR only has about a 1% increase in performance of sdram
P.P.S. and the ti4200 is not better than the 5200, maybe more reliable (for the time being) but not better :)

Lawnboy360
1st Aug 2003, 20:51
P.P.S. and the ti4200 is not better than the 5200, maybe more reliable (for the time being) but not better

The GeForce 4 Ti4200 IS better than the GeForce FX 5200 most of the time, and cheaper as well. Here's a benchmark :

http://www.hardocp.com/images/articles/1047311589S4MzihRI0V_6_1.gif

It gets better (vs the GeForce 4 ti4200) at very high resolutions and using anti-aliasing and anisotropic filtering, but you probably won't be able to use those settings and get decent framerates anyway) :

http://www.hardocp.com/images/articles/1047311589S4MzihRI0V_6_5.gif

As you can notice, at 1280*1024 with 4x FSAA and 8x Aniso, the 5200 is faster than the ti4200, but the game would not be playable at 12 FPS!

If you don't want to spend much money, get an extra 256mb stick, bringing you up to 320mb total, and an affordable video card, GeForce 4 Ti 4200 and up, GeForce FX 5600 and up, Radeon 9500 and up (9500 is actually better than 9600, Ati changed that because 9500 performance was too close to that of the much more expensive 9700). And don't spend extra $$$ for 256 mb versions of the GeForce 5600 or the Radeon 9500/9600, because those cards aren't fast enough to take advantage of all that extra memory, it's just marketing.

From_God
1st Aug 2003, 21:26
The doubled memory would certainly be much better for games in the future, no?

Lawnboy360
1st Aug 2003, 21:32
The doubled memory would certainly be much better for games in the future, no?

Some future games, like Doom3, could use more than 128mb on the video card, but the graphic processor would be too slow to process so much data... the speed of the GPU will limit performance before more than 128mb of memory are used...In other words, it's like upgrading from a GeForce 3 to a top-of-the-line GeForce FX 5900 ultra 256mb when you've got a 300mhz CPU; the performance would be limited by the slow CPU anyway.

========================================
If you want a really cheap card (slightly less than 100$) ,read this "budget showdown" with the Ati Radeon 9200 and the GeForce FX 5200. Just don't expect too much from such cheap cards. http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NDkw
The conclusion :
" Without question, the GeForce FX 5200 is the undisputed budget performance champion. Even with that said, newer games such as Splinter Cell and UT2K3 are going to almost require you go to 800x600 resolution with no AA or AF in order to get playable frame rates."

sneelock
1st Aug 2003, 22:14
you guys have given lots on good suggestions but would add that the geforce 4 ti4800 is probaly the best video card to go with it will out preform both the fx 5200 and the fx5600
as for motherboard the a7n8x that everybody has mentioned is an exellent motherboard. for the ram i wold suggest 2x256mb pc3200 memory running in dual ddr mode and for a prossessor the athlon 2600+. I think that you would find the system to handle any game on the market for while. the dual ddr makes it so your computer hardly even thinks anymore. i have build quite a few computers with dual ddr at work and you wouldn,t belive the difference it makes

Lawnboy360
1st Aug 2003, 22:36
Pretty good suggestions, but...

so I would not hesitate to spend a couple hundred bucks if needed...

Agent Rutherford
3rd Aug 2003, 05:50
Hey guys, I have to say thanks for your continued input. All of you guys gave great suggestions but I still have a couple questions. Firsst of all, I am very interested in the Ti 4200 and the Ti 4800. Which one is better? Lawnboy... your graphs were very helpful ( I am an econ major so graphs and my brain work well together) However, I am confused why the Ti 4800 was not evaluated. I think I will end up buying one of those, but... I was on ebay and noticed that those Ti's run on DDram and my motherboard does not use that; I am only able to have SDram on my motherboad. I think that I will upgrade my sd ram to 500+ and buy the video card... if my motherbpard will run (4200 or 4800) especially since DDram is not that much better thank SD. Some of you guys have more money to spend than I do... That Radeon 9800 sounds friggin awesome.... I think I will end up spending $300 or so with installation... but thats hardly keeping up w/ u ..........Thanks again and watch those Buckeyes this fall... REPEAT...

Agent Rutherford
3rd Aug 2003, 06:15
Hey guys... RANDOM said to make sure I had a power supply of at least 300... I only have 250!! ... just finished talking to gateway tech... what would u guys suggest I do? Thanks... Brad

Trollslayer
4th Aug 2003, 07:46
Originally posted by Lawnboy360
Some future games, like Doom3, could use more than 128mb on the video card, but the graphic processor would be too slow to process so much data... the speed of the GPU will limit performance before more than 128mb of memory are used...

As it would appear, 256 meg cards, while powerhouses, already show slight problems. I don't know how it'll be with Doom 3, but Valve showed that the new ATI and nVidia 256 cards display fragments when their AA is used on HL2's testing, but "older" cards (128 megs) are fine. This leads me to wonder if ATI and nVidia aren't going too fast on the "my new card will come out 5 seconds after yours with 2% more of the power" debacle.

Dragosani
8th Aug 2003, 04:12
Originally posted by Agent Rutherford
Hey guys... RANDOM said to make sure I had a power supply of at least 300... I only have 250!! ... just finished talking to gateway tech... what would u guys suggest I do? Thanks... Brad

You should really upgrade. You could just get a new PS or a new case entirely. I ran a TI4200 on a 250W, and with graphically intensive games (Morrowind mainly) it was a constant brownout.
I went with a new case with a 300W, and it hasn't been a problem since.

Agent Rutherford
8th Aug 2003, 05:46
Dragossani - Thanks... I am going to upgrade my computer, before I make any changes... Does the power supply have to do with my processor... AMD Atholon?

Lawnboy360
8th Aug 2003, 19:15
I was on ebay and noticed that those Ti's run on DDram and my motherboard does not use that; I am only able to have SDram on my motherboad.

That's the memory ON the video card board, and it's doesn't have anything to do with your "main" system memory (on the motherboard). As long as you have an AGP slot, any video card should run (some expensive cards require a power connector for extra power though).

For your information, the original line-up for GeForce 4 Ti cards was Ti4200, Ti4400 and Ti4600, the higher the number, the higher the performance. Then versions supporting AGP8X appeared with various (and confusing names). A Ti4800 is the AGP8X version of a Ti4400, and a Ti4680 the AGP8X version of the Ti4200... The performance increase vs. the original version(AGP4X) is very small (in some games), if there is any.


Valve showed that the new ATI and nVidia 256 cards display fragments when their AA is used on HL2's testing, but "older" cards (128 megs) are fine.

I couldn't say for sure, but I understand that the problem was only with DX9 (GeForce FX) nVidia cards, 128 mb versions included. Anyway, it seems the problem is solved. http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/27762/

Trollslayer
8th Aug 2003, 19:18
Well, good news then :)

MonkeyPoo69
8th Aug 2003, 19:35
I think I'll suggest the ASUS V9560 FX 5600. I know there are some cards that you can get for around the same price and will be just a little better than this but to play deus ex 2 and the rest of the new games that are comign out, you'll need a card compatible with driectX 9. The FX 5600 is, so get that.

sneelock
8th Aug 2003, 19:59
Monkey if thats true then why would they even try to make the game run on a ti200. it Has no dx9 support. if they made you have a dx9 card, they would effectively render most peoples machines incompatible. the ti4800 preforms just as well as the fx 5600 if not better. the only place it lacks is in aa and anistropic filtering. and while iw will use these features as an option they are not nessessary. if the fx5600 was right around the same price or lower it wouldn't be a bad idea if you are spending to much more i wouldn't bother.

Lawnboy360
9th Aug 2003, 01:21
to play deus ex 2 and the rest of the new games that are comign out, you'll need a card compatible with driectX 9.

To play DX:IW you need a card compatible with DirectX8, and pretty much all the cards mentioned in this thread are.

Picasso
9th Aug 2003, 01:55
It should be noted that (at one point, at least) Ion Storm's in-office machines had Ti4200s.

MJK
18th Aug 2003, 19:12
when choosing graphics cards you have to consider 2 things cost and what it does, if you actually work out a card to have obviously you have your big end cards which are basically big loud (loudness is a factor for me no point having a beauty of a pc that sounds like a tractor) bricks in your computer corner best card fx5900 which actually performs only slightly faster than the ati 9800pro but costs a lot more also the 256mb thng wont matter untill a few months - yr soooo we have a 9800 and 9800 256 (pro) which does nothing noticable unless your going to be rendering with it also both cards are fully dx9 compatible , what i would advise if you dont mind your pc being loud and you have cash to burn buy a geforce fx 5900 if your like me and you like to show your pc off buy a 9800 pro 128 hercules model (the one with a silent coolant and blue lcd lights on the fan not essential just looks cooler for 20 bucks more) it will cost you a couple of hundred bucks less and performs just as good unless your running hifgher res but then you'll need a higher res monitor !