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dafydd
27th Jul 2003, 09:28
[Folks]

Gosh, these streets outside the castle are entertaining. I could wander for hours.

Oh, look: a bar with a drunk.

Hey, here's a locked cellar door; too bad I don't have a key.

Oh ho, a shop I can rope into. Full of nothing but a letter about a door I can't open. And deer legs; lots of deer legs.

Hey... look over there -- a bar with a drunk!

:confused:

Dafydd

Nightwalker
27th Jul 2003, 12:58
There's a Market building you can get into by rope arrowing up. You need to check out the office carefully and you'll find the key you need for the cellar door you noticed a bit farther down the street.

dafydd
27th Jul 2003, 18:40
[Nightwalker]

Boy, I must have just missed it. I was in the building and all over the inner office, specifically looking for the key to that cellar-door (I thought it might be there); but I didn't see anything.

I'll go back and look again, but... hm.

Dafydd

clayman
27th Jul 2003, 22:14
This is an old classic. Tame by today's standard of unnecessarily difficult FMS, but one of my early favorites. Play "The Vigil" after this; it is the followup to LEE, but not as good IMO. The endgame area is a good little Ghosting challenge. :)

dafydd
28th Jul 2003, 01:55
[Nightwalker, Clayman]

All right, I finally figured out the safe, got the key, and made it into the castle. But there are guards here who evidently have bicycle mirrors attached to their helmets! They can see directly behind themselves. :eek:

I'm still trying to figure out how to get upstairs; I get caught every time!

There's also a ladder, but it looks like it's guarded by about 200 soldiers, each staring directly at the bottom of the ladder, which is lit brighter than a thousand suns.

Dafydd

Vanguard
28th Jul 2003, 04:32
I think the ladder of which you speak is at the front door. That only leads up to the archer overview of the courtyard.

After getting in using the service door into the basement, douse the torches in the courtyard while you are on the 1st floor. Then head back to the dining room. Follow that patrolling guard into the next room with stairs. You follow behind that guard and scoot up the stairs, hopefully while the upstairs patrolling guard is a ways away so you can get atop the stairs, into the next room, douse the fireplace, and cower in a dark corner. You'll have trouble getting by the guard at the fireplace to get to the landing atop the stairs and then to the servant's room where you can use the window to get atop the roof to get around the courtyard, but it can be done.

I did manage to ghost Lord Edmund by:
circling around the table with the 2 corpses. Moss the floor between the hallway and the table. Tail him as he passes and jump atop the table. Creep around the table (but don't waddle) while tailing him. As you circle behind him on the table, grab the lady's key and snatch the loot on the table. Then slide off the table, slither behind him,
and back to the darkness of the hallway.

The only moss arrow in the mission is back in the jeweler's shop in the market, the one with the metal door. You could bash open the store window but that would bust the ghost. The key is in the mansion, so you'll have to find it and come back outside to get the moss arrow, and then head back into the mansion.

dafydd
28th Jul 2003, 09:52
[Vanguard]

I hate to say this, but it's pretty easy to ghost that particular room (with the babbling Lord Edmund), even without a moss arrow!

You just follow him as he passes the hallway, and you head into the nearest dark corner to the left. Crouch; he can't see you as he wanders by. Every time he passes, you can creep forward, snatch a glass, and creep backwards into the corner again. When you're ready to move left, for the key and bottle and such, just follow along behind him again to the next dark corner. Again, creep out and grab stuff, one at a time, including Lady Whatshername's key. Then, when you've got everything, follow him again, around and out into the hallway. So easy, even I can do it!

(I hope that worked -- that was my first try at giving a passage the "spoiler" formatting.)

Hit another snag. I've gotten two of the keys to the vault where the idol sits, but I'm missing "his" key, the Duke's. I've been up and around the courtyard roof, raised the gates (though I don't know why), into the chapel & the secret rooms behind it (including the secret room inside the secret room). I have about 1650 loot or so... but I'm still scratching my head where the last key could be, and where's the rest of the loot.

Definitely not a ghost (except for the Lord Edmund room); I've alerted several guards, cowering in a dark corner while they rummaged around for me.

Question for Clayman about the ghost rules: suppose the guard says something like "nobody better be taffin' around out there!" but doesn't change his patrol; then he says "musta just been the wind" (or rats or whatever), but again doesn't stop or start searching... does that bust a ghost?

Or do you have to actually shake the AIs out of their routines in order to be busted?

(Not that it matters much to me at this point; it's all I can do to restrain myself from slugging everyone in sight with my handy cosh!)

Dafydd

P.S. Actually, that's a good idea: I'll go back to the game and knock everyone out. Then I can search around and find the key, then reload back to before I got violent, now knowing where I'm supposed to go and what I'm supposed to do.

Is that cheating?

Vanguard
28th Jul 2003, 21:17
One key is on Lord Edmund wandering around the table. Another key is on Lady <whomever> that is a corpse next to that table. As I recall, you find an "unmarked" key in the mansion. You have to go back outside the mansion to use the "unmarked" key to get the last key for the vault.

dafydd
28th Jul 2003, 21:21
[Folks]

I think I'm close to solving this one, but two points still elude me.

I did go ahead and save my Lytha game, then go around and knock everyone out so I could explore. I figured out that the Duke's key must be in the locked room off the fireplace room -- but I just could not find the key to that room! That's the first thing I'm still searching for. None of the keys I have found opens this door, and it's impervious to lockpicking.

In this mode, I bashed it open with my sword... which would be impossible without alerting the guard there in the Lytha game. Inside, I found enough loot to bring me to 1875 -- still 25 short, which is the second thing I can't find: where's the rest of the loot? (The stats say there is 2008, so there is actually 133 loot missing.)

(Stats also say there are three pockets to pick. I count Lord Edmund as one; maybe they count the dead Lady as two, even though it's not possible to pick her key -- but who is the third? Is there someone wandering around who is wearing the Duke's bedroom key on his person?)

I keep feeling like there's a whole section of this game I'm missing... but I've been in the chapel, down the secret trap room, inside the secret inside the secret, down where Lord Edmund wanders, up into the bedroom area with the fireplace, into each bedroom, up to the courtyard roof, over to open the gates, the dining room with a few gold plates and such, and even into the inn with the drunk guard... I just can't find any more loot, and I can't find the key to the Duke's bedroom.

What am I missing?

Dafydd

Nightwalker
29th Jul 2003, 00:09
The bedroom door that's locked is just off a small sitting room. Outside that sitting room, there's a dark room that you walk through to get to the stairs. Check the fireplace in the dark room.

As for loot, the most I've found is 1983g. out of the 2008 available, though I'm not the best loot hunter around, so the rest may be there someplace. Did you rope arrow up into the orphanage window? Most of the rest that I found was pretty much out in the open, except maybe the plates in the kitchen sink.

clayman
29th Jul 2003, 02:19
Your question regarding ghosting....It centers on the first or second alert question. I've never liked those terms, but they appear to be standards now in the ghosting community. In your case, the 'musta been rats' is considered a first alert and does not violate the Ghost. Your 'shake the AIs out of their routine' is a generally correct way to describe alerts that break the Ghost. But as you will find in some of the newer missions, there are AI behaviors and other design issues that make a judgement call on whether the Ghost was busted or not very debatable. Good luck, always nice to find players who push the limit of 'normal' gameplay. :)

Rommel_1891
29th Jul 2003, 02:59
When I played this mission the first time, I had an interesting experience with the cellar door...

The key wouldn't open it! :eek:

After exploring more and doing a reload, the door finally opened, but I was getting rather frustrated as I'm sure you can imagine. ;)

dafydd
29th Jul 2003, 04:31
[Clayman, Nightwalker]

Finally finished it. I was hunting around the fireplace for a key, and I finallly (accidentally) looked into the fire itself....

Yep; 1983g for loot. I wonder where the final 25g is? Probably a ring or something hidden on a table.

I had thought about the orphanage earlier; but when I fired a broadhead into the casement, it looked like it went right through... and I didn't want to lose a rope arrow, so I forbore. I don't know why the broadhead didn't stick, but I got up there and found enough loot to finish.

As far as pushing the game limit....

For a while, I was working out methods of knocking out every last AI. This is useful because it allows you to spend lots of time exploring -- trying to get Garrett into places (or on top of things) he's not supposed to be able to do.

As far as ghosting, I think I can figure out how someone could ghost Lord Edmund Entertains: first of all, stay away from the central stairs! You don't need them; you can get up and down via the chapel stairs, then around the roof from one end of the building to the other; and up and down the stairs (or a rope arrow) leading to the room leading towards the sitting room.

Dafydd