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SShadow
24th Jul 2003, 16:49
I think that DX IW should have a fiber wire weapon. For those of you who do not know what that is it is a wire designed specially to choke people. this would be an efficent, quiet, and deady way to take down any unsuspecting person. Please reply with your thoughts.

~Shadow

TheDerf
24th Jul 2003, 17:17
We were kind of spculating that on other threads. I say that there should be some form of a silent takedown that doesn't involve wasting ammo and/or a few slots in your inventory. (i.e.) snapping necks, choking with or without piano wire.

WSimons
24th Jul 2003, 18:12
Haha I think someone has been playing Hitman too much! But I do agree, a silent non-ammo-wasting takedown would be convenient.

PDenton
24th Jul 2003, 18:38
I agree as well. A fibre wire would be a good idea, but it would probably would take up a space in the inventory and I couldn't use it to smash crates.

Does anyone here agree that the crates are kind of stupid as who keeps something like a small box of pistol bullets in a massive wooden crate!?!

TheDerf
24th Jul 2003, 18:55
Yeah, I hope they ditch those crates. You like smack it twice, it cracks like a midget just jumped out of it, and there's nothing inside but a little tiny box of ammo.

SShadow
24th Jul 2003, 19:02
People may I remind you that this disscussion is on fiber wire not on how big ammo boxes are.


~Shadow

Foten
24th Jul 2003, 19:11
Originally posted by SShadow
I think that DX IW should have a fiber wire weapon. For those of you who do not know what that is it is a wire designed specially to choke people. this would be an efficent, quiet, and deady way to take down any unsuspecting person.

You mean like the electric prod?:rolleyes:

SShadow
24th Jul 2003, 19:28
Not exactly, the prod uses ammo and is not completly silent. the wire could be used as much as one pleases and would look 100X cooler.


~Shadow

Big Ragu
24th Jul 2003, 19:42
Yeah, but I always liked to see the victim start shaking when I zap em'. Plus, there never seemed to be a shortage of prod charges around.

But I agree, a different form of silent takedown would be nice, be it piano wire or chloroform.:)

Foten
24th Jul 2003, 19:43
Oops i read wrong i thought you wrote chock but you wrote choke. :D

SShadow
24th Jul 2003, 19:44
At least they could put in a choke hold option or somtin'


~Shadow

Big Ragu
24th Jul 2003, 19:48
Vulcan death grip?

Ductonius
24th Jul 2003, 20:59
Originally posted by SShadow
I think that DX IW should have a fiber wire weapon. For those of you who do not know what that is it is a wire designed specially to choke people. this would be an efficent, quiet, and deady way to take down any unsuspecting person. Please reply with your thoughts.

~Shadow

I think the weapon your thinking of is the garrotte, aka garotte wire, aka piano wire.

Where did you get the name "fiberwire" from?

TheDerf
24th Jul 2003, 21:29
In Hitman, they call it "Fibre Wire."

[SYN] Nexus
24th Jul 2003, 22:06
Yep fibre wire is same as piano wire.I loved it in both Hitmans and it would be very cool in DX2:IW

SShadow
25th Jul 2003, 02:36
O my bad I did not realize that it was spelled ''fibre'' but it would still be cool, and after watching "Tears of the Sun" I am convinced that the knife should definetly have fibre wire comming off the end like the Navy SeAL's knives do.


~Shadow

Le`Sauveur`De`Ces`Dames
25th Jul 2003, 08:04
I would prefer mono-wire, you know, a wire very thin and very strong, that cut through everything. so you can stick it in a doorway, and when people come after you, they get cut in half

MobileEMP
25th Jul 2003, 16:51
First of all the monowire idea is awesome, the fibre wire could also be used in that way and if you decide to retrive it you can or you could bust a piano and get some more or just pick some up kinda like they had the prods laying around

Trollslayer
25th Jul 2003, 16:55
I think it makes more sense to find prod charges laying around than piano strings...

And the garrote is a nice idea. Of course that doesn't stop the enemy from alerting buddies, or having about 50% chances of escaping it...

MobileEMP
25th Jul 2003, 16:56
I was the one who told shadow about the seals knives. I dont know if its true or not, but it would be nice to have the fibre wire on the back of the knife so it wouldnt take up another space and it would also be a guaranteed silent takedown.

Samhain
26th Jul 2003, 04:05
I like the fibre wire idea, but there would be alot of cynics out there saying the idea was "stolen" from Hitman.

How about another silent takedown idea?
Sneak up behind the guy, wrap your arm around his neck and
snap it.

crimson_stallion
26th Jul 2003, 09:29
Originally posted by MobileEMP
First of all the monowire idea is awesome, the fibre wire could also be used in that way and if you decide to retrive it you can or you could bust a piano and get some more or just pick some up kinda like they had the prods laying around

Yes indeed.. all that would take is a secondry fire key. Main function can use it as a fibre wire chocker, secondry fire canplace it on the wall, almost like a silent mine.

SShadow
27th Jul 2003, 02:37
Hitman could never say that the idea was stolen from them because the army special forces were using the fibre wire way before Hitman existed.


~Shaddow

Samhain
27th Jul 2003, 20:26
I know Hitman couldn't say it was stolen, but there are many Hitman fans who would say it was.

SShadow
28th Jul 2003, 20:31
they could just call it somthing other than fibre wire


~Shadow

yachimec
28th Jul 2003, 22:57
Why not make the garotte/monowire weapon a nano-ability?

nanofactories in the agents' palms manufacture a high-tensity plastic polymer that can be rapidly produced and accurately shot at unfriendlies. The polymer dries rapidly upon hitting oxygen, contracting and trapping targets.

Level 1 - Enemies up to 10m away are trapped for a limited time

Level 2 - The flow of blood to the brains of enemies up to 35m away is constricted, knocking them out quickly

Level 3 - Enemies up to 75m away are rapidly eviscerated

That would be cool

Le`Sauveur`De`Ces`Dames
29th Jul 2003, 11:15
an upgraded spider-man Aug? (I mean what is the point to glue ennemies when you can just cut them in little pieces)

Arkyle
29th Jul 2003, 12:02
Ok....

We´ve got wires and other ideas.

Deus Ex was one of the best games i ever played, just because there were always different ways to approach a situation and solve it.

But I found out that Silent takedowns, were merely reduced to kill ´em with silencers, OR use the prod.

What about the knife? someone said about it like the SEALS do.

Other ideas, like using bare hands. cmon! Denton is a highly trained agent, isn´t he? so... why he can´t use hands??

More, the wire is a great idea, there are others, like using gas to put em to sleep, knock em like we did with the baton, also could be used some other new invented things, like nanoaugmented habilities.

Other ideas, why we can´t change the patrol routes of the guards, like in the commandos game, trowing cigarrete boxes or other things to make em change their courses...

Well, Deus Ex team, let´s kick some imagination, because the reward of doing a mission by the silent way ( and the hard one) is always better than being a Rambo.

( But Rambo has so much fun, sniping down guards with a bazooka, har har har).

crimson_stallion
29th Jul 2003, 13:24
speaking of sniping, it would be nice to have to areas in teh game in there for potential snipers. Maybe some buildings (which are not important plot rooms) could have roof access via either stairs or an external ladder. This way a stealthy player could use his knife, fibre wire, or other such item to silently dispose of enemies around the are, and then head up toteh roof of a nearby building, usign his silenced sniper rifle to pick off key guards. This I think would really add to the "do it how u want" style of deus ex, and really add to immersion. It feels abit less realistic when you are runnign around with a sniper rifle on foot and sniping people around building corners and the like.

Maybe the power of sniper rifles could be reduced by using a sstem similar to taht in teh new rainbow 6. Standing they should be basically useless (unless your rifle skills are excellent), crouching it should be slightly (but not much) better, and when crawling (prone) the rifle can be placed on teh ground, with the tripods pulled out to stabalise it and give much imporoved accuracy. This way people couldn't just run around using the sniper rifle as a extra long pistol. I often did this as it was one of the only weapons that ALWAYS gave a one hit kill to the head.

These are jsut thoughts, if you don't agree then im not goinging to yell and scream (some people on here seem to like to flame anyone who comes up with new ides they dont agree with).

Le`Sauveur`De`Ces`Dames
29th Jul 2003, 13:49
why not a flash bomb: just to blind them for a few minutes, so you can safely get past them?

and for crimson_stallion, you could do that in DX1 at least in 2 places: when going after the generator in NSF headquarter at the begining, and at vandenberg, if I remmeber correctly

Hannibal
29th Jul 2003, 15:05
I don't think that you could pull off fibre wire with a first-person view. Most action games don't do melee weapons very well to begin with.

Arkyle
29th Jul 2003, 15:32
Well, in my Opinion...

Deus Ex is not exactly just an "action" game. its more about strategy and tactical game.

That´s why the effort wich means programming melee weapons to take down silently and, maybe, take down without killing ( a new idea?, youre a cop after all... why killing always??) comes to be the 1st element.

But i say again that being a Rambo-man could be very fun. ( hahaha, gunning the windows and launching grenades inside just to know if there was or not someone inside) har har

Hannibal
29th Jul 2003, 16:25
Originally posted by Arkyle
Well, in my Opinion...

Deus Ex is not exactly just an "action" game. its more about strategy and tactical game.

That´s why the effort wich means programming melee weapons to take down silently and, maybe, take down without killing ( a new idea?, youre a cop after all... why killing always??) comes to be the 1st element.

But i say again that being a Rambo-man could be very fun. ( hahaha, gunning the windows and launching grenades inside just to know if there was or not someone inside) har har

It's an interesting idea, although it would have some implementation issues:

If it worked like in "Hitman 2", it would be overpowered. The baton and crowbar also were good for melee takedowns, the baton for silent ones. However, they were risky to use, and you had to have uber melee power to knock someone out with one blow.

SShadow
29th Jul 2003, 19:23
Originally posted by Hannibal
I don't think that you could pull off fibre wire with a first-person view. Most action games don't do melee weapons very well to begin with.

Ever played Hitman 2?


~Shadow

Hannibal
29th Jul 2003, 20:05
Originally posted by SShadow
Ever played Hitman 2?


~Shadow

Yes. It's quite a different beast though. In Hitman, you have either a 100% or 0% chance of succeeding, depending upon whether you sneak up on the person. It's much harder in Hitman 2, because hardly anyone ever stands still, and even if they do, there are others around them in broad daylight. In Deus Ex, it is much easier to sneak up on someone, so fiber wire would probably end up being overpowered.

crimson_stallion
30th Jul 2003, 13:02
Originally posted by Le`Sauveur`De`Ces`Dames
why not a flash bomb: just to blind them for a few minutes, so you can safely get past them?

and for crimson_stallion, you could do that in DX1 at least in 2 places: when going after the generator in NSF headquarter at the begining, and at vandenberg, if I remmeber correctly

Yep, but in both cases it was the path u took to get to your objective. It kinda made you feel like you were supposed to snipe at those times. I mean basically on very level (where it is possibly) to have soem little areas that may not be that easy to get to or find, that provide access toa great sniping area. Out of a window probably or on a roof. But true, it did have cases where you coudl snipe.

crimson_stallion
30th Jul 2003, 13:19
Originally posted by Hannibal
It's an interesting idea, although it would have some implementation issues:

If it worked like in "Hitman 2", it would be overpowered. The baton and crowbar also were good for melee takedowns, the baton for silent ones. However, they were risky to use, and you had to have uber melee power to knock someone out with one blow.

Exactly. Thisis one of th ebiggest reasons why i'd like to see soem changed to the melee combat system. I always played the game stealthilly, and I found the there were only 2 melee weapons that were of any use to me:
1) prod
2) dragon tooth

Why? Because any other weapon would take 2 or 3 hits to knock out/kill an opponent, even if they were unaware of your presence and you had full melee skills. Only way this changed was if you also had the melee aug installed on full level.

This means that youd sneak up on a guy and :

1) your first hit would miss him so hed run and sound an alarm while you frantically try to run behind him smackign him with that baton/knife/crowbar hoping hell fall before he gets to the alarm. In turn you run past another guard who starts shooting at you (or sounds the alarm himself) and alerts mroe gaurds.

2) your first hit does little damage so guard turn and shoots, allerting more guards and /or killing you (if you have low health).

3) guard turns or hears you jsut beforeyou hit and starts shooting. Your melee weapon is now al but usless once he is aware of yoru presence, and by the time you switch you aonther weapon you are dead or have 5 more guards around.


Another non-lethal was mini crossbow. Problems here:

1) low low range (which i see as a good thing as it balances the weapon and makes for more realism) but can be a pain.

2) never takes a person down in 1 hit. This means that you can ire and then hide, adn wait fot the guy to fall down, but it also has the possilbility of him again getting far enough to trip an alarm or brign more guards. If you miss he will turn and start shooting, drawing more guards. If you get him and then he finds you, then you again must change weapons as the trank darts are useless at close range (slow fire rate and small clip).

However useful items were:

1) prod:
a) sneak behind the guy (while crawling) and zap him in the arse. 9 times out of 10 he will fall instantly, while gettign him in the back usually will only stun him. Silent, doesnt attract otehr guards. you can now stash the body.

b) get him once, stun him, pull out a crowbar, and finish the job. or a pistol. or a shotgun. or a silenced sniper rifle - your choice. Or even run and hide.

2) dragon tooth:
a) walk up to a huge gun-toting soldier, click once, watch him fall. Silent but deadly. Also privides a (slight) light source indard areas. If you want to get rid of the body, jsut hit it a few more times an it will splatter and dissapear. :)

These two melee weapons/items were both extremely useful. The trank darts were also great, but were limited to use on a single target, or risk being breaking your stealth.

Sorry if my english is abit off, its late and im half asleep. Lat3r!

Catman
30th Jul 2003, 13:23
Even on untrained, the baton is a single blow takedown weapon. The trick: Aim between the shoulder blades, not at the head — otherwise, all you do is annoy the target (and like as not get your head blown off).

From_God
31st Jul 2003, 19:05
all you need to make a silent deadly take down is a dragon tooth sword and a roll of duct tape

operative x
31st Jul 2003, 21:39
noooooooo guys! They should have the laser type of wire like in johny mnemonic. You know where that asian guy had on his finger nail and he pulls it off and a laser type of wire came out that cuts through anything. That would be sooo cool to be able to dice bad guys in half!!!

Hannibal
1st Aug 2003, 11:57
Deus Ex had a really good assortment of silent takedown weapons. The prod was certainly the most effective, but you didn't get enough ammo to use it every time. The tranquilizer darts were good too, but you had to be careful using them. But with one gas grenade and 4 tranquilizer darts, you could take out 4 bad guys without one sounding an alarm. To do the whole game with non-lethal takedowns, you had to have the Silent Run and Melee Strength augmentation upgrades, so that you could use the baton.

Tiper
1st Aug 2003, 12:43
why not da prod charge????:confused:

goody
6th Aug 2003, 19:31
i agree, there should be a standard fibre wire that like the keyring takes up no inventory space. Alos, does anyone else find that the LAW is useless, as it is one shot throwaway, but takes up 8 spaces that u can hav a gep gun or plasma rifle in?

Le`Sauveur`De`Ces`Dames
7th Aug 2003, 08:14
I think it's only 4 spaces, but I agree, it's pretty useless. if you are careful enough with your GEP-Gun, (and if you upgraded slightly your Heavy Weapons skills), you have enough rockets through the game to avoid using LAW

PDenton
7th Aug 2003, 15:09
Originally posted by goody
does anyone else find that the LAW is useless, as it is one shot throwaway, but takes up 8 spaces that u can hav a gep gun or plasma rifle in?
I agree that LAWs may take up a lot of unecessary space in your inventory, but it was much more efective than the GEP gun, unless you had full Heavy Weapons training. I personally only used it if there was a bot close by because I don't like taking on robots with explosives, I prefer using the radar invisibility.

Back to monwires, I think that having a monowire as a default starting weapon that didn't take up any space would be really good. It would be silent and not waste ammo or inventory space. :cool:

Hannibal
8th Aug 2003, 11:30
The only difference in effectiveness between the LAW and the GEP gun was that the LAW could destroy a big military bot with only one blow. Other than that, the GEP gun was infinitely more useful.