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PDenton
25th Jul 2003, 06:16
I think that the crates from Deus Ex were a stupid Idea. Firstly who leaves small objects like a lockpick in a massive wooden crate that has to be smashed open with a crow bar?

Secondly when you do get it open they make too much noise and allert any gaurds nearby.

In Invisible war I think that they should either get rid of them and bring in some other standard packaging, or at least have a lit on them so you can be quiet when you open them. What are your opinions?:D

Random
25th Jul 2003, 07:33
I wouldn't describe them as big and noisy, but I do think games should find a better way of storing items, yes.

Le`Sauveur`De`Ces`Dames
25th Jul 2003, 07:44
yes, it's sure that the crates were a little unrealistic, but I htink the fact that it alerted the guards was fun. another decision to make: risk to be discoverd, but take the much-needed content of the crate, or try to do without, and stay hidden...

Mr.Tellurian
25th Jul 2003, 11:01
Where's your imagination? Half Life did a good job with the crates, as there was.... stuff inside besides the goodies and ammo. You coul'dnt pick it up but you did'nt get the feeling of "wow... such a big crate and so little inside..."
So just imagine the DX-Crates being filled up with similar stuff ;)
While it still would be nice if you could search crates without destroing them (ala Shock2 for example)

Trollslayer
25th Jul 2003, 11:21
One good way of fixing that nigh-empty box/crate problem would be to have the player break a crate, but as it fell apart, that it had generic models posing as content, and a real item for you to pick up.

This could be achieved with the current engine's physics - by breaking the crate you could have the items in it behave as if they were organized, but now drop into the floor, sliding along with the broken bits of wood of the crate. After a few seconds the items fade, leaving nothing but the main item in the center of the crate (along with the pieces of wood lying there for a few more moments, or leaving them there, period).

Unless of course the items remain static, and slide/fall outward just like the example above, but had a limit area to where they could slide off into (like only half a meter away from their initial position).

Example 1:

Alex in a factory/industrial complex. He breaks a crate, and as the wood parts fall off, textured models like a cylinder with a radioactive sign, some toilet paper, a cathode or some gears, but the main item could be an EMP grenade.

Example 2:

Alex in an underground passageway of terrorists. Alex breaks a crate, and as the wood parts fall off, small handguns, an occasional rifle or night-vision googles fall off, but the main item standing there would be ammo, or a set of grenades.

On an aside this idea, as far as i remeber, is not original, i believe it's already been used on some other FPSs (though i cant remember any for now).

And no, lets leave crates where they are.

crimson_stallion
26th Jul 2003, 13:03
yeah, i seem to remember something like that.. cant remember where though. Exactly as you desribe it. Only annoying thing would be if one of the things that you cant pick up is somethign you relly want hehe.

Maybe they could have some type of nanno crate/box things. They could generally be unlocked, but in some cases (if they hold weapons in particular) they could have a keypad on them which can be either hacked, or the code be found, or they can be blown with a granade and basically just ahve a hold blown into it so you can grab the item through the hole. You could have telescopic vision aug allowing you to see whats inside. Anyone remmber the glasses in 007 nightfire? the x-rayish ones?

Trollslayer
26th Jul 2003, 14:14
Yup i remember the X-ray glasses. It was a nice feature... wasn't DX2 to have something similar in the form of a Biomod? :confused:

Moving on... i believe the crate idea was either from Kingpin or Soldier of Fortune, can't quite remember now.

PDenton
26th Jul 2003, 14:20
Originally posted by crimson_stallion
Maybe they could have some type of nanno crate/box things. They could generally be unlocked, but in some cases (if they hold weapons in particular) they could have a keypad on them which can be either hacked, or the code be found, or they can be blown with a granade and basically just ahve a hold blown into it so you can grab the item through the hole.
Good idea. You mean sort of like the ones they had in System Shock? Some were open, others were locked and you had to hack them to get into them. With them it just told you what was inside the crate though.:D

The_Monopolizer
28th Jul 2003, 18:04
I like the cases w/ keypads for weapons idea.

I want there to be a sniper rifle thats in a nice shiny case.

Hannibal
31st Jul 2003, 12:54
I kinda like crates. They are like the chests in other RPG's. It's like a miniature Christmas every time that you break one open.

Trollslayer
31st Jul 2003, 16:10
Originally posted by Hannibal
I kinda like crates. They are like the chests in other RPG's. It's like a miniature Christmas every time that you break one open.

Yup, a Christmas enemies get to hear a lot :D

El Padrino
31st Jul 2003, 22:04
I hate crates. In Deus Ex, you always have to switch weapons to your crowbar or just shoot it with what you've got. Yeah, it's just three or four, maybe five seconds of interrupted exploration, action, or whatever, but it adds up. And you can't just ignore the crates, either, because they're crates, and you've just got to know what's inside.

Personally, I prefer my take-able stuff lying on tables or hanging on walls so I can skip all that smashing and just get on with it. Or, behind something I can see through (without a biomod) like glass, so I know if it's worth the trouble of whipping out a crowbar or hacking a keypad or doing whatever it is I need to do.

Le`Sauveur`De`Ces`Dames
7th Aug 2003, 07:58
no, you just have to fall from very high on top of them, twice...

and I thought it was PART of the exploration!

Lawnboy360
11th Aug 2003, 14:15
It's a pretty minor design thing, but I would definitely prefer some sort of futuristic storage container, at least in hi-tech labs, and the mole people would still have standard crates.

gareis
12th Aug 2003, 15:24
Originally posted by Lawnboy360
It's a pretty minor design thing, but I would definitely prefer some sort of futuristic storage container, at least in hi-tech labs, and the mole people would still have standard crates.

They existed in DX1, holding just about every aug and aug upgrade canister. In fact, I recall five distinct designs for them--the standard plasma-paned stands, the MJ12 unbreakable glass cylinders (opened usually by computer, sometimes by keypads), the ocean lab version of the same, the Area51 wall case with an aug upgrade canister, and the Dragon Tooth sword case. Can't help thinking there was another....

Anyway, you want something breakable that's like those, right? Perhaps moveable? And with glass or plasma sides, you can see whether or not you want the object inside.

~gareis

Lawnboy360
12th Aug 2003, 17:38
You're right, but if they only held things as augs and upgrades, they were quite rare. I'm talking about a pretty simple and common container for "average" items, simply more "modern" than regular crates. In KOTOR, the ship of the player as some containers(food storage I think) which are white cylinder, and the top is made of 4 parts which slide under each other when you open it. It doesn't really make sense as 1/4 of the opening is still obstructed but who cares :) .

Trollslayer
12th Aug 2003, 23:51
Perhaps standard wooden crates for crates near shipments or warehouses, and other types according to location.

ginger_grunger
13th Aug 2003, 11:35
i think that it'd be better to find items in realistic places instead of huge crates, as this would help to add ANOTHER layer of gameplay, searching everywhere for everything...and crates are pretty ugly...but to be frankly honest, who cares? if the storyline and gameplay are at least halfway as good as DX1's, il be happy

Le`Sauveur`De`Ces`Dames
13th Aug 2003, 12:42
"ask for the impossible to get the maximum" (Peter the great)

I hope it is at least twice as good as DX1

AlteredGlyph
23rd Aug 2003, 02:57
A container that has a lid that opens and you dont have to smash it. That would be the best thing, as you would still have to reveal yourself (unless the guards are on the non opening side), but it would be a bit more realistic.

TheDerf
24th Aug 2003, 14:14
I think the crates should be done away with. It'd be better to just put the items you would find in crates in places they would normally be found. (i.e.) Any box of ammo in a private storage room, a lockpick or multitool (they're combining those two for this game right?) in a police building or with an arms dealer, etc.

Le`Sauveur`De`Ces`Dames
25th Aug 2003, 08:21
no, just keep crates, ut you shouldn't have to smash them, you could hide in them, let the guards walk by you, and then come out and run.

or stay in it and be shipped to another country by cargo (OK, you may have to eat a few soy food on the way)

Daywalkermi
25th Aug 2003, 13:35
If I was holding my crowbar considering how to extract the contents of a crate, wooden or otherwise, which is nailed tight, I would not start hitting it until I destroyed it... I would rip the lip off with the above mentioned crowbar.

however, if I was holding a lightsabre (e.i. the dragon tooth) I would swing at it like a samurai on drugs!

No matter how unrealistic a setting a game presents, shouldn't it be realistic in it's own universe??

PDenton
25th Aug 2003, 18:18
So you mean you wouln't want to get rid of the crates, just have different weapons interact with them differently. I also sometimes wondered why a pistol could make a wooden crate smash. Shurely it would simply stick bullet holes through it.

Personally I think that a box with a lit on it sounds better. What about different boxes for different weapons. I mean the GEP gun was actually bigger than the crate it was in!:rolleyes:

operative x
26th Aug 2003, 02:44
I wish they got ride of just "plane" crates. They need to be more realistic and creative about placing items. They need to put things according to there enviroment. Like for one, your not going to find any crates in a high tech building or on the street some where. They need to place items in drawers, cabnets, fileing cabnites, and safes. And if they hold special items they can put a lock on the thing. But if your in some ship yard or industrial place or even in some basement of a building than creates would be ok. And addition to that your not going to find ammo in certain places like a hospital. So I think that ammo should be an inventory item of its own like in resident evil, where you not only had to have a place for the gun but also a place for its ammo.

Mr.Kill
26th Aug 2003, 02:59
crates can also be used to solve puzzles as well. like in half life, the crates were used annoyingly well to solve puzzles !

it would be cool to use a weapon like the crowbar, not as a weapon, but more as a tool to open the crates. crates are supposed to have lids !

crimson_stallion
27th Aug 2003, 07:25
How about this?

Type 1 - Crate with lid.
-Stores general items, such as medkits, food, drinks, etc (and
possibly lockpicks/multitools.
-Walk up to crate, press 'use' key on crate to pick it up, or
press 'use' key on the lid to open it. When opened, the
lid 'slides' slightly to the side so that you can see/take what is
inside. If you press use on lida gain, it slodes back in place. Similar to the 'sewer' lids in the original deus ex.

Type 2 - Crate with lock. As before but with a simple lock on it.
- stores sensitive equipment such as weapons, ammo,
wepon mods, etc.
- to open:
1) picklock with lockpick OR
2) break lock with a few hard crowbar hits OR
3) put a single bullet in lock

Type 3 - Special secure crate
- stores any items which are special or plot-based, that should
only be avaliaible after you have particular skills, have particular
information, or have been allowed access.
- metal crate with attatched security terminal.
- to open:
1) get code / password
2) pick with multitool (importance etermines lock strength)

Mr.Kill
28th Aug 2003, 01:42
the crate with lock seems like a good idea, but people would bother wasting lock picks.

i would just stand there and give it a good bash with the crowbar to open it, i dont care how long it takes, i must get me ammo !

Le`Sauveur`De`Ces`Dames
28th Aug 2003, 07:03
-my code doesn't work
-let me try mine (blows the door with a 40mm launched grenade)

(reminds you of something?)

crimson_stallion
28th Aug 2003, 10:46
Originally posted by Le`Sauveur`De`Ces`Dames
-my code doesn't work
-let me try mine (blows the door with a 40mm launched grenade)

(reminds you of something?)

LOL yep. I was thinking this way you could ahve people forced to make achoice - look for the info or waste a valauable grenade. Otherwise they could use the "lock strength / door strength" system from Deus Ex. That seemed to work relatively well IMO. I.e. if the itemstrength is 100% then you can only open the crate with the correct code/key.

The only timei would want this to be used is for important plot items that shouldnt be easy to aquire or should only be gainable after talkign to a certain person, or reaching a certain area, etc.

Igoe
25th Sep 2003, 06:39
I think I recall hearing the crates in DX2 have windows on the sides so you can look in and see the goody before you bust out the multitool or crowbar....I also recall something about lids that come open more easily and more silently but require a multitool....

sackme
3rd Oct 2003, 10:39
I liked crates for the fact that they were loud as if i didnt know were the enemy was or how many there were of them then id 'open' a crate and kill them as they came to find out what the noise was



If there was no god it would be nessecery to invent him

Le`Sauveur`De`Ces`Dames
3rd Oct 2003, 10:59
Originally posted by sackme
I liked crates for the fact that they were loud as if i didnt know were the enemy was or how many there were of them then id 'open' a crate and kill them as they came to find out what the noise was


that's funny, I also liked the crates because of the noise, but it was for the opposite reason : you sometime had to choose between opening the crate (and alert the guards), and leave whatever was inside to keep yourself safe (I preferred to play discretion), another decision you had to make about the way you play

Trollslayer
3rd Oct 2003, 13:14
When confronted with breaking a crate and alert an enemy, or let it go, i pick the crate up, activate Silent Walking, run to a safe spot and break away :D

Le`Sauveur`De`Ces`Dames
3rd Oct 2003, 15:18
do you really use silent walking?

I have always prefered fast run/jump, since you can still run silent (crouch and run), but with silent run, you can't jump higher

Hannibal
3rd Oct 2003, 15:33
Originally posted by Le`Sauveur`De`Ces`Dames
do you really use silent walking?

I have always prefered fast run/jump, since you can still run silent (crouch and run), but with silent run, you can't jump higher

I played through the game four times and I only used it once -- when I was going for all nonlethal kills.

BMKane
6th Oct 2003, 04:29
The best way of storing items I've seen was in SS2. Stuff was in everything. Lockers, crates, bodies, garbage cans... And, when you opened them, you sometimes got crap objects which didn't have any use, but were interesting, like magazines and such

And, Half-Life crates kinda gave me the creeps. What sort of place stores, like, 45234952389358354923528952348965243958 unprotected hypodermic needles and several Miscellanious White Packages in a crate?

Gordon: *hacks away at crate with crowbar*
Crate: *explodes, spawing hypos all over the place*
Hypos: *sticks into Gordon's legs*
Gordon: O.O

Le`Sauveur`De`Ces`Dames
6th Oct 2003, 11:03
Originally posted by Hannibal
I played through the game four times and I only used it once -- when I was going for all nonlethal kills.

nonlethal KILLS? (how do you kill someone nonlethally?)

but as I said, with augmented speed, if you crouch and run, you are still silent, and go as fast as running without crouching and without speed aug.

so you don't really need silent run. or did I miss another use for this aug?

Hannibal
6th Oct 2003, 11:34
Originally posted by Le`Sauveur`De`Ces`Dames
nonlethal KILLS? (how do you kill someone nonlethally?)

but as I said, with augmented speed, if you crouch and run, you are still silent, and go as fast as running without crouching and without speed aug.

so you don't really need silent run. or did I miss another use for this aug?

Errr Nonlethal takedowns.