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View Full Version : Defiance Story Spoilers ( You have been warned )



Fox
24th Jul 2003, 05:08
Well, after visiting www.nosgoth.net and going to their defiance section I got some new info on the game. Not only that but if you tie the info with the pictures in the site then you get a clear picture of whats going on.

THE FOLLOWING SPOILERS MIGHT PROVE VERY ACURATE, YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED:

When the game starts we find out that time has changed. Thats where the line at the end of SR2 comes into play" time abhors a paradox ".The game starts out with kain being left alone in the sarafan stronghold ( time period may be different, probably is) having lost raziel because he went into the spectral realm. Having been trapped in the spectral realm by the elder god, Raziel tries to find a way to escape it. While this is happening kain is trying to leave the sarafan stronghold. Now if you remember at the end of SR2 vorador was taking care of the sarafan priests while mobius was dealing with raziel. Because vorador is in the same place as kain at the time ( ? ), the two are bound to meet. Something will happen with that meeting that will alert vorador of what is happening ( pict with voradors original suit ) and vorador will choose to help ( blood omen 2 ). While this is happening raziel escapes the spectral realm thru some means ( shifting into another form maybe) and is thrown 5 centuries into the future. Somehow or someone ( mobius or hylden ) has replaced janos heart. Because mobius has seen or can see the future he predicted that janos would become a tyrant due to his distaste for the humans that took away his life and becomes evil, obviously turning himself into a hylden or being possesed by one ( his green eyes in the pictures on website gice it away like the sarafan lord in blood omen 2). Raziel then reaches what looks to be janos" stronghold in the future when he has started populating the world with more vampires or hylden to take over.This explains the pictures of the huge mansion or stronghold depicting all kinds of feathered beings that raziel reaches at this time. Meanwhile kain is trying to find raziel and somehow ends up in a place that has a striking resemblance to where raziel is. By the symbols on the walls of one of the pictures in the site I realized that the symbols are the same as the ones in the mobius chronoplast chamber wich means that this is mobius's stronghold. Using the cronoplast chamber kain locates raziel in the furute. Why is the strognhold the same in kains time as the one in raziel's ? Is mobius playing janos or is janos playing mobius ?

I think that the hylden will show in this game because they are the ones playing the cards and we will finally know if mobius is working alone or with somebody else. Also the two will meet at the end of the game ( kain and Raziel ). Raziels origin will be revealed and why he survived the abbys ( demigod anyone ? ).

Well start speculating :-)

Fox
24th Jul 2003, 05:24
http://www.gamespy.com/previews/july03/lokdefiancemulti/

Zephonim
24th Jul 2003, 08:26
whoo yeah ,i cant wait for Defiance ,and if we are gonna get a story that newbies can follow we must get a good proplogue or something like that at the start of the game!

Stukedogg
24th Jul 2003, 14:55
That sounds like it could be a very acurate prediction. I have a thought or question to throw out there. What was up with Janos devolving into that huge beast on BO2? It happens to all of Raziel's brothers on SR1 also. Do you think that has anything to do with the Hylden's curse?

Also Moebius has got to be with the Hylden. Because he wants Kain dead so bad. And we see at the end of BO2 that the Sarafan Lord, pretty much says that when he dies the way will be cleared for the Hylden.

I'm getting totally antsy for this game, and we are still 3 0r 4 months away!

fneh
24th Jul 2003, 21:03
...here's something that doesn't make sense. either you're wrong or there's a HUGE plot hole that will be passed off as being because of the paradox made:


raziel: you must hate them (humans)
janos: no........blah blah blah they fear what they do not understand blah blah blah
raziel: vorador does.......
janos: blah blah blah......

When janos DIED he was not bitter at all. He accepted that his sole purpose in life was to die there saving raziel





so janos being all evil because of hatred of humans is REALLY wrong.

Fox
25th Jul 2003, 03:52
Well first of all I stated that this was a theory but I am confident it will prove to be correct. Janos will turn and become evil I can guarantee it no matter what the reason for it is. It has been stated by the people at eidos.

As far as me being wrong, well we will just have to wait and see but it is a fact that he turns evil in defiance that I know is 100 certain and the green eyes give away the fact that the hylden are behind it all.

At the end of SR2 raziel states that time and memories had changed of events that had never come to pass of that had not happened. There is a reason janos must stay dead. What that reason is we still dont know but my theory is that after mobius tried rallying humans to purge the vampires and it didnt work this time he will revive and use janos to go on a crusade against anybody that opposes him by janos creating a winged being race and taking over nosgoth or maybe we will see the famed battle between the winged races. Maybe mobius is building an army to kill of the hylden and then he can take over nosgoth.

We will wait and see.

As far as the deevolving of janos that is a very interesting point maybe that will play into the confrontation that kain and janos will sooner or later have there is no other choice only together will they be able to defeat whoever is behind this and restore balance to nosgoth. But remember janos said the pillars are the lock and the reaver is the key. If janos wants to free the hylden or the elder then he needs the reaver himself which will mean that he will try to get it from raziel or kain himself. Or if he plans on waging war with the hylden then he still needs it.

Raz
25th Jul 2003, 09:35
Originally posted by Fox
Well first of all I stated that this was a theory but I am confident it will prove to be correct. Janos will turn and become evil I can guarantee it no matter what the reason for it is. It has been stated by the people at eidos.

I'd be amazed if that's the case, especially as the people at CD are keeping the script and a draft of plot details belonging to Defiance in Fort Knox... ;)

There's no way that any plot details would've leaked yet, despite what some people may say... :p

Dragonkid
25th Jul 2003, 22:44
Personally, I choose to hope that Janos does not turn evil, as he is one of my favorite characters (along with half the other Legacy of Kain characters). I also think that it is unlikely that the people at Crystal Dynamics would give away such information that is that important to the Legacy of Kain storyline. Of course...speculation is half of the waiting for the game.

Fox
26th Jul 2003, 06:16
Raz, I can assure you that it is going to happen. It has been said by the people at eidos you just dont know it. The internet has a lot of places that you can find interesting info on such things directly from the mouths of employees but I will let you find these for yourself.

If you want one from not a great source but correct never the less, go to the link I have in this topic and read the whole preview article you might find some information interesting if you know what I mean.

Umah Bloodomen
26th Jul 2003, 16:11
Yes, and we all know how the internet is always 100% reliable. :rolleyes: :o

I prefer to actually obtain my LOKD info directly from the mouths of CD employees right here in the forums, and so far, Chris and Amy have yet to confirm anything other than what has been answered in the question thread(s).

jasonxxx
26th Jul 2003, 16:15
well that is good of u cause i re read the articl and he got the guy who plays janos name wrong not only that i read some were in this forum that he has no clue what he is talking about so i could be wrong besides it is to big of a plot element to be given a way so soon

Threnodi
26th Jul 2003, 21:17
Originally posted by Fox
Well first of all I stated that this was a theory but I am confident it will prove to be correct. Janos will turn and become evil I can guarantee it no matter what the reason for it is. It has been stated by the people at eidos.


Huh. Well I tend to agree with Umah and co. and get my info here...none the less, I think that if Janos does anything especially evil it'll be because he's posessed. You noticed the odd green eyes..sounds like posession to me. And you know how Lucent was saying that lady in the demo chained to the wall turned into a big fire demon when you don't drain all her blood?

Apparently posession when weak is a thing that might happen in this game to people. Janos just gasping back life with his heart restored sounds like a prime target for posession. he's the last ancient, for goodness sakes. I'm betting Janos gets posessed, does some bad stuff against his will and Raziel has to figure how to un-posess him, or else regretfully kill him again.

That's my two bits of speculation. ;)

Riovanes
1st Aug 2003, 15:08
"Janos will be evil."

Wow, way to copy the Gamespy article! Considering it comes out and SAYS he's a boss - you've shown an excellent proclivity for stating the obvious here.

Goodness - why is it we have to rip theories off of other sites and then claim them as our own? Credit where it's due, please.

And really, until Chris or Amy say something, I'm not gonna worry about what a gaming site says.

After all, I was told DMC2 would be incredible - and I almost resorted to using the disc as a frisbee.

BAH!!!

moose562
1st Aug 2003, 19:20
Originally posted by Riovanes


After all, I was told DMC2 would be incredible - and I almost resorted to using the disc as a frisbee.

BAH!!!

You must be insane! I *LOVED* DMC2 - the graphics were fantastic, even if the story was a little 'pants' ahem ;) Anyway, that would have made for a pretty expensive frisbee wouldn't it? ;)

L_Master562
1st Aug 2003, 23:43
It all depends on if you buy it used or not. But it would still cost like four times the average 5 dollar frisbee (set).

Still, I avoid believing anything now untill I see it in the game. Sure, people hack it out eventually, but that is besides the point. I do some hacking along those lines myself and it works well usually. But we have obsessive people doing everything in the first few days of the Pc versions but we don't know if this will have one(yet, but I've seen game sites that mentioned it).

But considering I've read that this game will come out when it's done and the high secracy, I'm not expecting much we've seen cut. Not much we have at all. I am wondering why there are the different colored Sarafan though. We had purple, green, red and I wonder if there will be more. What, does each of the Sarafan Brotherhood including Malek command their own sect? The only thing at this point I'm interested in though is seeing the CG intro.

Clearly red.
http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2001/ps2/soulreaver2/102901/sr2_screen005.jpg

Clearly purple.

http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2003/e3/0514/eidos/legacyofkaindefianceps2_screen001.jpg

These would be green in the front and the other 2 elsewhere.

http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2003/ps2/legendofkain/0711/kain_screen007.jpg

EvanK
2nd Aug 2003, 19:21
http://www.gamespy.com/previews/july03/lokdefiancemulti/

from the article: "My only disappointment was that it was not Peter McNichol reprising his role as Janos"...someone needs to get their names straight. :D

EvanK
2nd Aug 2003, 19:30
Apparently posession when weak is a thing that might happen in this game to people. Janos just gasping back life with his heart restored sounds like a prime target for posession. he's the last ancient, for goodness sakes. I'm betting Janos gets posessed, does some bad stuff against his will and Raziel has to figure how to un-posess him, or else regretfully kill him again.

well, i think everyones forgetting...WHAT exactly would happen to Janos once he's cast into the demon dimension (bo2)? here's my guesses:

-janos never gets his heart back, and he still never died, but just devolved into the hylden beast in bo2...we never know just how powerful the ancients are....

-kain uses janos' heart of darkness to resurrect vorador before bo2 ("vorador created my vampire army -- something i could never do")

-when janos is weakened by the sarafan lord and cast into the demon dimension, he's corrupted and turned evil (or possessed), then somehow returns to battle raziel.

Riovanes
2nd Aug 2003, 20:46
You seem to be forgetting that BO2 was played out on a COMPLETELY different timeline than SR2.

Not to mention that it takes place roughly 700 years after the conclusion of SR2. (500 years in the past at the end of SR2 + 200 years after Kain's birth in BO2 - for those that doubt my math). So Janos being thrown into the pit has nothing to do with the context of this game.

BAH!!!

EvanK
2nd Aug 2003, 20:55
Originally posted by Riovanes
You seem to be forgetting that BO2 was played out on a COMPLETELY different timeline than SR2.

Not to mention that it takes place roughly 700 years after the conclusion of SR2. (500 years in the past at the end of SR2 + 200 years after Kain's birth in BO2 - for those that doubt my math). So Janos being thrown into the pit has nothing to do with the context of this game.

BAH!!!

uhhh, it was my understanding that bo2 was on the unaltered timeline, right?

and if everyone else is jumping around in time, i would assume janos would be able to as well...

Raz
2nd Aug 2003, 21:11
No, Blood Omen 2 occurs on the altered timeline created by the actions of both Kain and Raziel at the end of Soul Reaver 2. This has been officially confirmed by Amy Hennig... ;)

Adrian Tepes
3rd Aug 2003, 06:26
My only disappointment was that it was not Peter McNichol reprising his role as Janos, the dopey museum curator from Ghostbusters 2, but I can live with a cool angelic vampire!

Obviously the person who wrote the article was just trying to be witty. His words didn't confuse me at all. However, it is apparent that he never played the other games if he didn't know much about the "Angelic Vampire".

diuqSehT
8th Aug 2003, 00:00
I loved when Pete walked by an artist in Ghostbusters 2 and said "Everything that you are doing is wrong. I want you to know this." But aside from that line the film blew pretty hard. Peter McNichols' true masterwork was as Michael Cage on Ally McBeal. He might be able to play a crrazy Moebius if they put him in heavy makeup.

Berkano
8th Aug 2003, 04:18
Take a look at that image

http://www.gamespy.com/asp/image.asp?&genre=action&image=/previews/july03/lokdefiancemulti/07.jpg

Is that Janos?!? Or is it some other ancient?

If so, it appears that they've gone through the same kind of 'wraith' transformation that Raziel had, minus the wings being all torn off.

And to my knowledge, Janos is the only ancient I've ever seen with feathered wings... then again I've only ever seen 1 ancient.

Can't be raziel in some other timeline, cause he had bat-wings.

Anyway... I believe my entire statement can be sumed up as:

Holy COW! WHAT THE HELL!? ARGH.. RELEASE GAME NOW!

Stukedogg
8th Aug 2003, 14:46
Rumor has it that is Janos. But you never really know for sure. It's been debated for almost half a month now.

I think it's time that they come out with some new sample pics. Right now it's like they're dangling a huge T-bone steak over a bunch of hungry bull dogs.

I'm going into withdrawls http://smilies.crowd9.com/contrib/edoom/sad2.gif

The_Last_Ancient
9th Aug 2003, 04:23
I have read the article at Gamsespy that Fox has gladly provided, and it does state that there is a boss named Janos, whom the author says is "badass", in his opinion.(Just had to add that ^^) The details of Janos' intent are not clear, however, so the knowledge that Janos Audron is truly evil is not confirmed either. My hope is that he is just possessed or something similar that hardens his reputation in the game for a time. In SR2, the winged dude seemed way to sincere in his beliefs to suddenly turn all homicidal and vengeful against the misguided Sarafan who killed him.

His solid benevolent attitude was what made him my favorite character in the first place--had CD truly intended to make the Ancient a bad character in the future, they would have made it more apparent in the earlier games. I am sure most of us out there would have noticed the dark side to Janos as well if this were true. Take Moebius for example. He tries to act all sugar-coated in the beginning, but we have already been given clues from BO1 and the cautious notions that Raziel remarks to him throughout SR2. There is just something about Moebius that rings that "DANGER" bell in our heads, and if Janos was destined to be a meanie in a later LoK installment, you'd think that we would have been given that same foreboding hunch.

But...like anyone else...I could be wrong...

And the green eyes part--that may prove a dead giveaway of some darker invader within Janos' soul....but I guess we will all just have to wait and see. ;)

The Amazing Rando
9th Aug 2003, 15:15
Gee, clues to Janos not being good in earlier games.

He wasn't in SR1, so you can't look there. He had a brief cameo in BO1, he had a cameo mention, besides the HOD, and that was that he terrorized Uschtenheim (thanks dark-chonicle, for helping me find the town name again). So only a brief mention, and it was that he was the greatest vamp to live, and that he terrorized a town. Not sounding too good.

BO2, well, there's the whole thing with his identity crisis. ;) Then there was some dialog that doesn't exactly make him look all noble later.

Not to mention there are parts in SR2 that seem to be hints, or don't seem to be exactly what they appear (from murals to dialog).

I think there are plenty of clues to suggest he isn't all that great.

And there was no clue in BO1 about Moe, they come right out and tell you he's been corrupted by Nup's mental blast.

The_Last_Ancient
9th Aug 2003, 15:40
Heh....you have your own good points there, Rando, and like I said, I could be wrong. It's just my opinion I guess.:)

The Amazing Rando
10th Aug 2003, 15:00
Well, it was mentioned that there no clues in the previous games to suggest Janos being 'evil' in the earlier games, and you can't get much earlier than BO1. If he fedon them anyway, when he did have an apparently unlimited source of blood at his aerie (unless that's how he accumulated that source, which I doubt), then he really shouldn't have needed them for food. I thought he just stood around all day watching the Reaver, but if he killed humans unnessecarily, then that in itself is another clue.

And chances are, IMO, humans weren't hunting the ancients/vamps until they started getting fed on. More of a "You killed my bro/sis/family member, take this-I killed yours" type of thing.

The_Last_Ancient
10th Aug 2003, 16:55
Originally posted by The Amazing Rando
And chances are, IMO, humans weren't hunting the ancients/vamps until they started getting fed on. More of a "You killed my bro/sis/family member, take this-I killed yours" type of thing.

Well there are several ways you could think about that. Either Janos was indeed picking on humans after a little while--and therefore became a wanted on the Sarafan list--or he was dropped under the spotlight because of the doings of other vampires and thus his reputation was spread in a different way. You can never really tell with the Moebius-led Sarafan either. The Time Streamer could have devised false stories about Janos Audron and his raids upon Ustchenheim(sp?), manipulate his faithful warriors into thinking negatively about Janos, and worsening the Ancient's chances even more.

Just some more little thoughts I've had that could have some significance....maybe.:rolleyes:

Stukedogg
12th Aug 2003, 03:21
Moebius had to know. All he had to do was look into the future and see what Janos would do. (That's why I think he's good, why would Moebius want to kill a comrade?)

But Janos is also a vampire and HAS to drink blood, so he took an occasional trip to town, had a night out. Sucked on a few villagers. They view Kain the exact same way. In BO1 they talk of how the Unspoken possessed people who were following it, or weakened. I see Janos being possessed as a possibility.

The demons in this series have been around since BO1. In fact the cathedral the housed the soul Reaver was even being gaurded by one. perhaps we'll see the return of Hash. Or one like him. The demons in SR2 seemed to know a lot. And I bet we'll be squaring of against the Hylden once again in Defiance.