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View Full Version : What I *don't* want LOKD to have from SR2



xarax
22nd Jul 2003, 19:26
Greetings all,

I just finished playing PC SR2 again. This time it took about 8.5 hours to play through all of it. I wanted to try the invincibility cheat, but I couldn't get it to work. Oh, well...

Anyway, I really do NOT want to see the following in LOKD:

DEMONS: I hate those stupid demons. They're nearly impossible to fight with the stupid PC combat controls and the stupid camera flying around and changing what "LEFT" means in the middle of the fight.
Sucky combat system: The SR2 combat system really sucked. I had a very hard time getting autoface to work, couldn't figure out why Raz would sometimes autododge, then auto-attack, and couldn't get manual dodge to work at all. Add to that the stupid camera thing, and it's amazing that I finished SR2 in only 8.5 hours.
Savepoints too far apart: I hate redoing the last 20 minutes because of some glitch or something that forces me to reload. I want to save anywhere, anywhen, and reload back to the point. If you must use checkpoints, then do it the BO2 way, where the player can save at anytime and reload to the last checkpoint. And put in plenty of checkpoints.
The stupid combat camera thing: The stupid camera flying around changes the meanings of the directional controls. I find myself running around in all different directions, because the camera decides it wants to be elsewhere. Make it more like BO2.
I don't want the stupid hungry reaver thing: The reaver was virtually useless in combat. I had to resort to using projectiles for most battles. Also, the reaver didn't sustain Raz in the material realm; he continuously lost health.
Forget about linear gameplay: The real strength of SR1 has a large, seamless world, but was still dogged by getting upgrades to proceed with the game. The more abilities that I have at the beginning of the game, means more exploring and variety of playstyles, plus improved replayability. Make the world large and non-linear.
Pest monsters: Those stupid pest monsters that spit stuff, but don't give out any soul energy when you whack them. A big waste of time and just plain annoying. Not fun.
Stuck in cutscene: I want to be able to skip or replay a cutscene. Replaying is likely not possible, because cutscenes are probably in-game, rather than video. SR2 dealt with that by having the text of the cutscene available for later viewing. Perhaps some canned "slideshow" images for replay, along with the actual dialog (and text for visually impaired like me)?


Also, I get much more enjoyment and replayability when I can replay the game with cheats turned on, so I can do more exploring without dealing with the actual gameplay (like flying around, invincibility, erase all monsters, etc.). Please allow for greater exploration by including these kinds of cheats in the retail version. (I promise I'll play it through without cheats the first time.) [;)]

Fifer
22nd Jul 2003, 19:33
Gotta say I agree with about all of that. Especially the combat and "autoface" function.

blincoln
22nd Jul 2003, 20:04
I can guarantee you that it won't have a camera system like BO2. Have you watched any of the previews? It's like DMC.

If you get the PS2 version and an Action Replay, you can use my debug menu codes to enable a BO2-style camera system in SR2 (but only when you use autoface). It's pretty cool, but I guess it wasn't finished in time for the game. It doesn't look quite right when you're fighting the demons.

Matt from Spam Buddies
22nd Jul 2003, 20:14
DEMONS: I hate those stupid demons. They're nearly impossible to fight with the stupid PC combat controls and the stupid camera flying around and changing what "LEFT" means in the middle of the fight.

There will be demons around in LOK-D, as Lucent said.
I disagree with You. The demons should and will stay in. They were awesome. It's just that combat-system, yeah, I can see Your point. But the combat-system will be all-new. So don't worry. You'll be able to kick some demonic booty with better style this time around. ;)


Sucky combat system: The SR2 combat system really sucked. I had a very hard time getting autoface to work, couldn't figure out why Raz would sometimes autododge, then auto-attack, and couldn't get manual dodge to work at all. Add to that the stupid camera thing, and it's amazing that I finished SR2 in only 8.5 hours.

I myself experienced no difficulties with TLOKS-SR2's combat-system. It's all in the wrist, mate. ;)
Anyway, it depends on the person and I agree that most people shall not tolerate this system again.
But You should already know that LOK-D will come armed to the teeth with new kick-booty fighting-system.


Savepoints too far apart: I hate redoing the last 20 minutes because of some glitch or something that forces me to reload. I want to save anywhere, anywhen, and reload back to the point. If you must use checkpoints, then do it the BO2 way, where the player can save at anytime and reload to the last checkpoint. And put in plenty of checkpoints.

Meh... Bare in mind that savepoints are the stuff that help make the game longer...
I think there should be savepoints and checkpoints in LOK-D, although I recall reading somewhere quite the contrary... That makes me worried... :(
Anyway, I have to agree that I found TLOKS-BO2's saving system much better than that of TLOKS-SR2.


The stupid combat camera thing: The stupid camera flying around changes the meanings of the directional controls. I find myself running around in all different directions, because the camera decides it wants to be elsewhere. Make it more like BO2.

No, no and no!
I did find TLOKS-SR2's camera rather frustrating, but definately it should not be like TLOKS-BO2's! Not in a million years!
The camera there was so stiff! I like boosted the mouse sensitivity sky-high and still I had to pretty much slide the mouse to the right, lift it up, move it back to left in mid-air, put it down, slide it to the right again, repeat, repeat, repeat, just to look slightly to the right. Geez.
... Aaanyway ... I'm glad that LOK-D's all-new camera looks way better than I imagined. I can now release a sigh of relief.

-releases a sigh of relief-

There.


I don't want the stupid hungry reaver thing: The reaver was virtually useless in combat. I had to resort to using projectiles for most battles. Also, the reaver didn't sustain Raz in the material realm; he continuously lost health.

That made the game challenging...
Yet again I must tell You that it will be completely different in LOK-D.


Forget about linear gameplay: The real strength of SR1 has a large, seamless world, but was still dogged by getting upgrades to proceed with the game. The more abilities that I have at the beginning of the game, means more exploring and variety of playstyles, plus improved replayability. Make the world large and non-linear.

I believe they've already taken notice of this, mate.


Pest monsters: Those stupid pest monsters that spit stuff, but don't give out any soul energy when you whack them. A big waste of time and just plain annoying. Not fun.

They are called Shades, just a heads up, mate.
-sigh-
You don't seem to like anything... They're adversaries... just simply learn how to fight them... it's so easy to kill three Shades without getting any harm.


Stuck in cutscene: I want to be able to skip or replay a cutscene. Replaying is likely not possible, because cutscenes are probably in-game, rather than video. SR2 dealt with that by having the text of the cutscene available for later viewing. Perhaps some canned "slideshow" images for replay, along with the actual dialog (and text for visually impaired like me)?

On this one, I can finally agree with You. Not on the replay feature, though. They're making a game, not a movie-viewing program.
Pause and skip. That's all we'll need.

Okay, enough of my rant already. I have only one thing that I wouldn't welcome in LOK-D.
Raziel's "chin".
In TLOKS-SR2 Raziel's model seemed to have a "chin". Well, we all know that Raziel doesn't have one, but his cowl showed quite the opposite.
While I was showing the game to my non-LOK-fan friends, they immediately noticed this small detail and it was rather awkward explaining it to them... Did I even find a solution to that?

- Matthew

Apocrypha Roxy
22nd Jul 2003, 20:26
Heck, I played both PS2 and PC versions of SR2, I never had any combat trouble... but combat was easier with an analog stick. Let's just say that in my bloodline, pinky fingers will not disappear alltogether. My hands are little, but those suckers can reach those keys like nobody's business! :p

If you want a game that has a 'slideshow' feature for the cutscenes, play Primal. You can quit the cutscene if you'd like, and can re-watch the scene, and pick up playing from that point, on.

I agree with the savepoint thing, though. Being able to save at a particular spot is convenient, and better than doing 'mission by mission', because if you flub up, you won't have to replay constantly what you've done. A prime example of this is my sister's attempts in SplinterCell...

I didn't like the shades either (the things that have no souls, just spit at you). Everytime I encountered them, I just ran past. When there were shades with demons, I just whack the shades away, and concentrate on the big guys. The demons were really tough the first time, but every time I replayed (that would be like 27 times on PS2, 5 times on PC, I suppose), they got easier. They honestly are quite stupid. Here's a trick: Push them into a wall, they'll stand on the ledge, a bit off the ground. Autoface, and whack the crap out of them. Easy kill. Easy snack. :)

Always remember to dodge and stuff. Will help you in your quests. And you eventually will become accostomed to the game mechanics - right now, you find the combat to be annoying and difficult, but after doing it a few times, it's a cakewalk. You can do it with your eyes closed (well, not really). Overall, the combat was tactical, not exciting. But it didn't really suck. It worked well, but wasn't eye-candy. Got boring. I never had any bugs.

As for the Reaver, I didn't use it often, I prefered scythes and swords so that it's hunger levels didn't start draining on me. But for a quick kill on a demon, the toughies, yeah, use it. The wraith blade was much more convenient as a key, a lightbulb, and a way to run through the muck. WOOHOO! No grass-stains, ma!

Hope that helps... a bit...

Glucolisis
22nd Jul 2003, 21:38
In my opinion, the demos should ALL be back, they were fun to fight after you learn how to kill them.

About the camera I think it was EXCELLENT in every aspect but if defiance will have a better I shlould welcome it. I must admit that it was hard to learn it at the beginning but after you play SR1 you shouldn`t have ANY problems with it in Sr2 (they were the same)

I didn`t find ANY BUGS in SR2, and I must say ANY because I played the first time from the beginning to end and without a PATCH and didn`t get troubles AT ALL (WinXP).

The only bug that happened to a friend was the blood thing in Janos`s home (it was really annoying).

Just learn how to play it and you`ll see how brilliant that game is.

punkst4r
22nd Jul 2003, 21:42
I don't know about #1&7 but I think everything else is changing....atleast that's what I've heard.

Saitou
23rd Jul 2003, 12:42
Well I have no idea how SR2 played on pc, but on the demons and shades, they were as matt said advesaries and good ones, it sounds like you dont want them to be challenging at all when you complain about them. Hmmm the pc version seems to be glitchy than, but I experienced no problems with autofacing or dodging in the PS2 version so this could just be in the pc one. I found the save points to be no problem though, they are where they needed to be IMHO. Point 4 again could just be pc, point 5 however was again mostly a good gameplay aspect, being able to summon it at any time and the more the reaver was eroused the stronger it became, I found this a good counter to not being able to sustain you at full health; though this will not continue Defiance I liked it. Points 6 and 8 however are great points and atleast the linear gameplay is being addressed for sure.

Kazael
23rd Jul 2003, 14:02
I had no problems with the combat system in the PC version of SR2. I didn't really like it... But once I got the hang of it, it was pretty easy. Demons? Too easy. Shades? Too easy. Sarafan? Er... Those guys actually gave me some trouble, especially the ones with those trident looking spear thingies. Their reach with those weapons was longer than the Reaver's, and I only had about a 50% success rate trying to dodge their attacks. That first encounter with the Sarafan, where Raziel has to fight 6 of them at once in their camp in the canyon was the hardest fight in the game for me. That was when I really missed the Glyphs from SR1 - could have busted out the Fire Glyph and fried those buggers where they stood.

I didn't mind the Reaver getting hungry and nibbling on Raziel, either. In fact, I used the Reaver almost exclusively. I kept using it until it drained my health completely and sent me into the spectral realm. Hell, Raziel can't really die so it doesn't matter if his weapon wants to eat him. When you get the Reaver all riled up, it's one hell of a weapon. Even the biggest demons in the game go down in one hit. What's really fun is when you have a big fight with lots of enemies and the Reaver sucking your energy constantly. Striking down the last enemy standing and being sent into the Spectral realm by the Reaver at the same time was pretty dramatic. I loved it.

fneh
23rd Jul 2003, 18:14
2. Sucky combat system.....
If you know ANYTHING about defiance you'd know that the combat is totally revamped...(excuse the pun)


Savepoints too far apart
You can save anywhere in defiance....



The stupid combat camera thing
Defiance also has a totally new camera.......


Forget about linear gameplay
defiance is also open to explore like sr1 was........


Stuck in cutscene
and, yes you guessed it: you can skip cutscenes..