View Full Version : A Great Idea: The Perfect Way To Make All Our Feelings Official To Eidos. Please Read

18th Jul 2003, 12:04
Ok, so here's what I was thinking. The Godfather sent a message to Eidos persuading them to check out the forum so they can see what we all think. The problem with that is, the forum's an over-hard to navigate labrynth of thoughts, feelings, jokes, debates and polls... As they're busy people I doubt they'll have the patience to search through it all to find out what people like and don't like about AOD.
Here's the plan:

STAGE 1> I post this thread. I'll look for a number of official Eidos or Tomb Raider production team email contacts (unless anybody knows some already, then please post them here)

STAGE 2> What I'd like you folk to do is to take a minute to state the ONE thing that you really liked about AOD and state the ONE thing that you really hated about AOD. If you want to go into detail about your main points then by all means do so, just be precise and straight to the point, try to cut out and excess chatter. This way we'll have a really neat collection of everyone's most fundamental thoughts on AOD.

STAGE 3> I'll send an email to the addresses we collect, the official adresses, high ranking Eidos officials. I'll post a link to THIS thread in the message and ask them to take a little 5 minutes of their time to have a look, check it out, see precisely what people thought about the game in a nutshell. This way they'll know what they did wrong and what they did right.

THE END RESULT: Eidos officials will have infront of them a nonsense-free list of the very best points of AOD and the very worst points of AOD from a group of die-hard Tomb Raider fan's perspectives, the people who KNOW what they're talking about, the people who KNOW what makes TR good or bad... not just any old people who'd never even heard of Tomb Raider until 3 weeks ago, we're a reliable source if you ask me.
Then hopefully they'll consider this post when designing the next Tomb Raider games.

I think this'll work...

18th Jul 2003, 12:09
BEST POINT: Combat. Be it hand to hand or with guns the combat in AOD was immaculate. The realism of gunfights was almost scary, hand to hand combat is a great addition as a riskier way to kill enemies and conserve ammo.

WORST POINT: Restrictions on the control system. The game really needs to handle EXACTLY like the previous Tomb Raider games, those controls were faultless. The AOD controls don't give the player enough control over Lara, very slow and sluggish, must finish doing one thing before you can do another. Way too restricting.

18th Jul 2003, 12:13
1) Do you really think they don't know what's wrong with the game?
2) Do you really think they care?

Because if they don't know what wrong then they must be crazy, and if they cared it never would have been released the way it was. Plus it's not a one bad thing or one good thing issue with AoD, the problem is they had this grand scheme to make this game bigger than life and it blew up in their faces and they had to chuck a lot of things-trust me, they already know exactly where they went wrong......so the true question is do they already have plans to fix it or will they just limp along doing the same thing?

Seeing as people still keep buying and saying the game is wonderful and are able to convince themselves that they are extremely happy with it, I bet that they forge on with their plans of release and jerking the public of their funds.

The answer though is very simple......rental! Or going to a store with a definite money back guarantee/ return policy!

18th Jul 2003, 12:22
How would they know? They can't just guess what fans think they have to be told.

Why would they care? Because if they release a game that people don't want to buy then it's a sales slump. A good game is a game that sells, give the fans WHAT THEY WANT and they'll buy it.

18th Jul 2003, 12:23
Without questioning your intention I take the liberty to point out that there is a similar thread (http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=19915), and the latter is the link Godfather inserted into his message that was sent to Eidos/Core so they do not need to wander the forum cluelessly.

Anyway, I have already stated my opinion here: http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=223138

18th Jul 2003, 12:29
I don't mean to be a pain in the neck, but I already started a thread like this ... which already had lots of responds from many of us and I already notified Core Design about it and if they would take the time and the effort to check out our feelings, then I'm sure it would be this link


since it's the one that I gave them and (hopefully) they're gonna read it too!

As you stated yourself so beautifully, this forum is indeed a mish-mash of thoughts, feelings, jokes, debates and polls ... but I gotta tell ya: by adding another thread like this one here which has exactly the same purpose as the one I had started up one week ago, you'll only enlarge this mish-mash.

So, I would like to suggest that each and everyone who wants to share her/his opinion about Tomb Raider-games, you do it in the link I've given above. NOT because it's a thread that I started, but MERELY because it already contains soo many useful ideas.

I am sorry RebeL_fARmeR for the work you put into making this new thread, but can I ask that you delete this one and copy all information into the original one?

If we really wanna reach Core Design with our ideas and thoughts, then we must do it properly instead of making a mess out of it. One thread for all thoughts ... otherwise they may loose interest in this and refuse spending time reading it all!

Thank you very much and who knows?

Maybe someone is already reading my e-mail and taking a first look into this thread.

Together we can make a difference ... go to the link and shout it out!!! Give me your idea ... your thoughts ... your opinion!! Lend me your voice and raise it!! :)


Bye for now

18th Jul 2003, 12:37
Originally posted by RebeL_fARmeR
How would they know? They can't just guess what fans think they have to be told.

Why would they care? Because if they release a game that people don't want to buy then it's a sales slump. A good game is a game that sells, give the fans WHAT THEY WANT and they'll buy it.

How would they know? Don't they do testing and have people actually working on the game. I have an image of some poor meek dude sitting in his corner hearing the game is about to be released and saying "uh dudes, dudes.....the game ain't finished" and getting ignored. We know the game was released after months of delays on the day it was released to try and get some sales before the end of the financial year and to coincide with the publicity boost from the upcoming movie. I don't think they are stupid at Eidos or Core.....they really do already know what exactly is wrong and the real question in my opinion is if they plan to fix it or not. If so, if they care then they are already on it......if they don't care then whatever we tell them doesn't mean squat. It's not like if they can't know what the problem is with the game :rolleyes: because it's blatantly obvious. But they also know that many people are going to buy it regardless of the condition it's in.....just like when people were here June 20th and June 21th saying the game was messed up....you see how many people still bought the game, right? You see that many people are convinced the game is wonderful and perfect and fun??

I'm not saying that it's not a good idea either to tell them how you feel....just saying that the likelihood that the PTB already know what a shoddy mess they have is very very likely and whether they decide to add all the options and tweaking that they didn't get to do with Aod will depend on just how they feel about whether the fans are happy or their financial bottom line!

18th Jul 2003, 12:39
Son of a... where did THAT some from? Never even looked at that post before!

So, looks like my thread has behaved like a British-made SA80 Assault rifle: It's been around for 20 minutes with good prospect and already it's buggered beyond use in a way that cannot be described.

Another one of my plans blown to ****.


18th Jul 2003, 12:40
Originally posted by RebeL_fARmeR
Son of a... where did THAT some from? Never even looked at that post before!

So, looks like my thread has behaved like a British-made SA80 Assault rifle: It's been around for 20 minutes with good prospect and already it's buggered beyond use in a way that cannot be described.

Another one of my plans blown to ****.


sorry? I just want the best for Lara Croft and Tomb Raider, don't you? :( :confused:

18th Jul 2003, 12:48
yeah but I looked at the thread and the list of what people like is so varied....some people like Kurtis, some don't, some people like the controls, most don't.......you have to pick through the personal things that people like or don't like instead of focusing on the things that need to be changed....the things that they already know they messed up on because it's in the manual (like changing control options and stealth +weapon) that they printed for the game but not in the game itself!

I'm telling you, they know exactly where they dropped the ball on this!

18th Jul 2003, 12:55
"Because if they don't know what wrong then they must be crazy"

Well, we are talking about the same people who made TR3 and TRchronicles.

18th Jul 2003, 12:57
UUUUUUGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHH, I spend ages planning this freakin' thing out and guess what? IT'S ALREADY BEEN DONE!!!

Wasting my bleedin' time, what I did wrong in past life I'll never know...

Let's look on the bright side, it's been done, excellent, I'll add to it sometime.

18th Jul 2003, 13:09
Blimey, I just went and checked out The Godfather's post. It's like IDENTICAL to this one!!!

Here are the rules: you can only mention two good and two bad things about AOD and in doing so you have to keep it short and to the point! Also: don't show your signature.

How about that for wasting my bloody time??? :(


P.S. I'm not annoyed with anyone from the forum, I'm annoyed at my bad luck! FATE, WHY ME?
The Godfather's post looks good, let's hope it makes a difference.

18th Jul 2003, 18:01
Forumites should just go thru ALL the Topics & copy & past the essentials in one thread...& have them read that.

All the info is already posted.......just needs collating.

Make it simple

18th Jul 2003, 18:05
For EIDOS & Core...
I wanted to put this in a topic, is a reply I made in another topic on finishing the game.

The last things are what I really think the TR Franchise should do!
(1 yr. per game/cycled...could have one every 6 months.....& IF anybody really got 'tired' of it,...THEN...they could cut back on schedule of releases. I THINK IT'S A GREAT SUGGESTION! I'm talking about continuing to original engine/& other team (Core) on the NEW efforts. It wouldn't hurt at all to have TWO series. They'd still be about the same person, concept, gameplay, etc.
I think it's the thing to do! Anyway here's what I wrote & were replies too to some of the others appraisals of the game:

I've finished it too on the PC.

1. I would like to know how hard it is & how much time it takes to make cut-scenes...I'd like to ask Redlegg to find out about that.
Just very curious.

2. It undoubteldy takes alot of work to make a game, even a bad one. That 'lazy' appraisal, I noticed they did duplicate many things, areas, rooms, halls, ducts, etc. also DUPLICATED several people, the woman were all the same w/different hair or glasses, etc. (except the old lady)....

...yes was very poor A.I., & very few enemies as well!

...was pretty sparse on items for solving/entering areas, access cards, etc.

...true: really didn't need any health packs. She was overloaded so much w/health stuff she should have been nuked at least 23 times & would've survived, lol.

...was too easy, except for the VERY IRRITATING 2, the Ghost & Boaz (but big part of problem there was control difficulties, movement w/gun up & w/getting them to change targets. Sometimes just didn't want to do it.

...MAKES YOU WONDER IF CORE was/is TIRED OF TR & looking for a way out!!!!!!! ......maybe corporate things aren't so sweet these days. I do wonder alot whether EIDOS really has any real care or heart for it's 'CUSTOMERS,' or are just 'the evil men in black' lol!?

3. Ah, I'm glad the made the game, is definitely better than NOTHING! TR fans definitely want some new tombraiding to play, but I think they would've been better off just making a really good story w/the old engine w/some new special levels w/new vehicles...or even the old ones.
I think they had it right w/the 1st 3 TR's, even though #4 was still 'good' too as was Chronicles!

4. AOD was in a way DOA! Yes, it has upset most by taking so much time to make & then being so BUGGY. SHARP TURNING BUSINESS TACTICS & GOOD GAME MAKING may not go together at all!

5. Right, I didn't start enjoying the game until Archeological digs...& onward from there (I did like the Botanical Dome though), but the ending was easiest 'boss' of all. The story really was fairly POOR imo.

...It makes you think they can't figure out what to make a game about anymore! I'd think there's PLENTY scenarios they can come up w/that would really be good. I'd think give a team 2 weeks to come up w/the rough draft...& should be able to do it...ESPECIALLY if they are people w/history, archeological, mysticism, etc. type degree's or knowledge.

...I really don't buy the 'copying other games,' etc. Stealth, & all the other items are JUST STANDARD FARE, really!

...The introduction of Curtis Trent was good & I really enjoyed playing him, & the golden triangle thing was cool. Also his PHARSEE powers were really cool too.

...Aside from maybe 1/6th of the game overall was VERY POOR. It was indeed like a ROUGH DRAFT, like an experiment that you'd think would be for the production process & NOT FOR THE FINAL VERSION.

6. Yep, I think it was/is a MAJOR BLUNDER for them NOT to have set up a team to continue the TRADITIONAL TOMBRAIDING SERIES as I spoke of earlier! EVERYONE, that loves tombraider would've liked that, for real...whether they'd say it or not, as long as was a really good playing game, environment, puzzels, & story like TR1-3.

...Sure, go for the NEW ENGINE & 'aod' stuff w/a team, Core I guess...but they should have kept the regular version going by someone else. It shouldn't have been any problem to have done that.

...Cycling: would be able to put out a TR every 6 months! I think would've made much more money & had many happy customers IF they had done that. OR WILL DO THAT. Think would become SATURATED? I don't think so! DELAYING a game, dumping all the tried & true good stuff, waiting THREE YEARS w/NO game out ----AND THEN PUTTING 'DOA' out IS THE WAY TO KILL A GAME & also it's hard core fans, even!!!!!!!!

...I think they may have alot of JERKY WAYS that may or hasn't been in the company's best interests for sure.

7. There very best I could give TR-aod would be a 6 out of 10.

IS A SHAME (even though it was better than nothing.)

18th Jul 2003, 18:06
What do you other Tombraiders think about a continuation of the TRADITIONAL TOMBRAIDER FRANCHISE along w/any NEW ONES?

Timeline wouldn't matter. All the Traditional ones could be squenched inbetween all the previous TR's, etc...Or in the future in various spots.

Here's just a few ideas I posted in TR Legacy Forum to a Topic on 'you write next tr script,' etc.:

w/out any thinking a few ideas pop up that I'd like:

1. I would like 4 levels or so leading up to & having to defeat a 'boss' Bigfoot, a real one somewhere, maybe even Alabama, lol

2. I definitely would like an area like Peru or such explored again, of course w/different things...& yes would be nice to find that secret dinosaur area.

3. Would be cool if she could capture a wild horse & ride it in that level.......or even if just in a cutscene, ...maybe a T-rex ripping the horse out from under her just as she escapes w/goodies back thru the small hole or portal or whatever.

4. I always like SNOW ENVIRONMENTS so some of those as well, maybe Iceland or such, maybe a frozen caveman type that has to defeat as well, etc. to get 'that artifact.'

5. Africa would be good to if they could do that w/alot of the indigenous wildlife. Maybe also goes down the Congo, gets captured by a tribe about to be boiled or cooked when maybe some remnants of that tribe that supposedly rescued her from trlr comes in for the rescue, & cut-scene...also answering trle questions & ah, we saved you again Lara...now we need your help: ...& another journey. Maybe a Hippo swallows the thing they need just before she can get it & has to defeat the extra large hippo to get it, etc. Also another cut-scene, having to slice the dead beast open, reaches in & grabs it...then has a nice dinner, ha.

6. Also always like South America.....that type tombraiding.

7. Who knows, why not even have her involved w/time travel & all kinds of exotic things could be created. A scientist that has made such a device, etc.

...maybe even the 'old idea' of having to go back in time to correct something, etc.

There's plenty of ideas though. They can even be made up w/out the genuine historical data. It's just a game afterall & most wouldn't even know the historical data......but historical is good too.

8. Have her use a bow & arrow while in Africa, etc.

9. Have her fly a Fighter Jet in the end game in some level & have a flying-shooting-escaping vehicle level.

10. Hot air balloon wouldn't be too bad either: for her to get to some location, from spot A to spot B...you doing the navigating, etc. & have to land in a very tricky spot...then get off before caught by the local natives or whoever.

11. Could have some special substance she must get & use to do some special feat, etc. the aim to get the substance...THEN to use it & succeed in the extra difficult feat...even w/these SUPER ABILITIES this substance gives her for a short period of time.

12. Could even have to do some Bounty hunting for someone to get some crucial data, info or item, etc. or help.

13. Could have a bar scene where, cut-scene she actually has a very good time, but gets completely loaded & passes out, lol.

...or someone slipping a mickey in her drink & then cut-scene, or afterwards & also stealing her items...she then has to recover & settle the score, etc.

14. Maybe she has to slip on board a Astronaut shuttle & get to the moon or elsewhere to retrieve some special material & get back undetected w/the shuttle. Have cut-scene w/her in spacesuit & if fail she swells up & explodes, very funny looking.

15. A 'Creature from the Black Lagoon' type monster would be fun back in S. America somewhere or on Dark Lake, etc.

16. Heck, she could fight the Scorpion King, huh!

17. Swing from grapevines...

18. Save a injured Tiger ... who later rescues her at just right moment...killing, chasing off her pursuers, etc.

19. She has to escape an Army of voracious Army Ants...

20. Could be put in a prison & have to cope & escape & clear herself again.


18th Jul 2003, 18:57

I think I'm blind from all the words :D
I freely admit I can write a lengthy post but......dang! lol

18th Jul 2003, 21:37
No, don't post thoughts and feeling here, go to the Godfather's post, that's the official Eidos/Core "contact post" if you will.

I still can't believe it, I think up a great plan, think it through, post the thread and it's precisely the same as an existing one!!! Absolute DOH!

19th Jul 2003, 04:15
Sorry, I don't see a real sense in this (write further good/bad points to Eidos/Core). Well, the most of TR7 is ready planed. The most enviroment is ready, the story too. I guess, Eidos/Core knows now what was good, okay and what not. In TR7 they will change some things, some not.

And btw: I remember the thread where someone pleased (Godfathers, hu?) to write TWO good and TWO bad points of AOD, that Eidos can read them. A lot of people wasn't able to count 'til TWO and write TWO points, they wrote a long/er letter with glitchies, little bugs lists and and and blah. If this letter would be for me and I would read "TWO points of", I would think: okay let's see and count what is mentioned twice or more. But if find insteed of the "TWO points" letters about glitchies, blah, I just would fly over this letter (possible the "letter writers" ruined the chance to get an influence - thank you). Well, I wouldn't have the time for blahs.
Crashs are importand, to easy or not, Kurtis or not. But "I could not use 2 weapons, could not drive, cannot swing with a rope, need more old power, where is etc." are not really importand. Just a could/should/maybe.

Let see what the future will bring. They are the makers and they are not stupid, they are learning, too. They allready had learned from the AOD1. We should not disturbe the comming/making of TR7. Anything -what ever they'll do- will so or so for some fans be wrong.
What ever, the time is changing everything. Lara, too.

And a real fan is a fan in good and in bad times!

19th Jul 2003, 05:22
Originally posted by RebeL_fARmeR
No, don't post thoughts and feeling here, go to the Godfather's post, that's the official Eidos/Core "contact post" if you will.

I still can't believe it, I think up a great plan, think it through, post the thread and it's precisely the same as an existing one!!! Absolute DOH!

Don't worry Rebel_fARmer. Sometimes you have to yell from two directions to get someone's attention. :D

22nd Jul 2003, 21:43
These forums represent the majority of TR players. EIDOS people watch the public opinion on their product through the forums, the magazines and the sales. They need to know what we like and what we dont like in order to improve their product and make more people buy it.