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weishaupt
18th Jul 2003, 05:18
i'd like to add my name to the list of people that think, based on given screens / movies / feedback so far that IW is going to be a bad game.

the straightforward gameplay (find the key!)
the monsters (in one german video)
the changes (biomods?)
the hud (get with the times)
the lack of inventory

what are they trying to do? enlarge the fanbase by making it all simpler? DX1 was GOTY, that's a big enough fanbase for anyone, isn't it? i'd be happy with a simple expansion for DX1 at this point.

hey, it's not all bad... there are some good points.

the atmosphere (open corporate atmosphere)
the engine (looks good!)
the weapons (but i don't know if they can be modded yet)

add your two cents to the pile.

Ductonius
18th Jul 2003, 05:55
Originally posted by weishaupt
i'd like to add my name to the list of people that think, based on given screens / movies / feedback so far that IW is going to be a bad game.

the straightforward gameplay (find the key!)

"Find the key" is probably only one solution to the problem of the locked door, as it was in DX1.

The other soutions will probably range from "pick the lock" to "blow the sucker right off its hinges".



Originally posted by weishaupt
i
the monsters (in one german video)

What's wrong with the monsters?


Originally posted by weishaupt
the changes (biomods?)

No-one who hasnet played the game knows how these will fare. I dont think speculation about - either for or against - the biomod system is worthwhile.




Originally posted by weishaupt

the hud (get with the times)

I had no idea HUD fashion moved so quickly. Did Raulph Lauren release his fall HUD lineup yet?

Summary: What are you talking about?


Originally posted by weishaupt
the lack of inventory

Beleive it or not, but the lack of an inventory in the HUD is probably an improvement. Seeing your stuff layed out by number did not help immersion at all. Other games (thief, SS2) hat have an inventory, but didnt use an onscreen inventory didnt suffer by the decision.


Originally posted by weishaupt
the atmosphere (open corporate atmosphere)

As is noted from the DX:IW website, you will, as in DX1, do a good deal of globetrotting. If you make conclutions based on only the videos you have seen, you will make many erronious conclutions.


Originally posted by weishaupt

the weapons (but i don't know if they can be modded yet)

They can be modded, I beleive this has been said directly.

Le`Sauveur`De`Ces`Dames
18th Jul 2003, 07:25
this, post, again.

Ok, I think I have already answered to this one.

at least, if you wanted to go on with this topic, you could put it in the old thread, so we wouldn't have to say everything all over again

crack_head
18th Jul 2003, 09:25
im looking foward to dx 2

weishaupt
18th Jul 2003, 16:07
oh, i'm looking forward to it. i'll buy it, as i did with DX, and as i will with HL2 and Max Payne 2.

finding the key is unfortunately remnant from the first-generation fps games. DX1 was so great because sometimes there was no key; instead there were seven ways around needing one in the first place. it made for killer maps and a completely replayable game.

the monsters themselves i have a problem with, but it's probably just me. there were only two that I can remember in DX1, the Karkians and those green poisonous reptiles, both the products of genetic engineering. they were both placed in the game with a purpose; they added more to the atmosphere of the game than to its look or difficulty.

i do wonder what will happen to the biomods. skills have been around so long in RPGs, it would be sad to see them go.

the tunnel-vision hud has been tried before in Aliens vs. Predator and at least one UT mod - i was very much against it, as it forced the viewing area into a vertical rectangle instead of a horizontal shape, as in widescreen TVs. it is restrictive and would fare better for games where there is little action or sideways scrolling, or in 3D games turning.

i haven't played thief, but when it came out i heard good things about it. SS2, however, i enjoy very much, and after playing the illegal version for a few months i decided to buy it on eBay. its inventory system is original but useless; i found it very hard to use, especially while under attack. a very simple way to switch between key items chosen by the player was used in DX1. i liked it very much.

i mentioned that i enjoyed the atmosphere, and i stated the corporate setting as an example. i wouldn't jump to the conclusion that every setting would be a similar setting because of what i saw in one video.

i didn't read the post that mentioned that weapons could be modified. thanks for correcting that.

[SYN] Nexus
18th Jul 2003, 17:51
I dont think warez is allowed and however I think its kinda cheap, I suggest you edit that last post even if you bought the real version after it.

DXIW will be a superbe game as well as DX1 was.Warren Spector you have my support!

Raccoon
19th Jul 2003, 00:35
Why in the world is every so pesimistic on this forum?? Every time I come onto this forum (even though I don't post much) someone is always *****ing (for lack of a better term) about something be it the hud (which I personally think is quite cool, but that is just my opinion) or someother stupid crap like that. When will you people learn, YOU CANNOT TELL HOW THE GAME WILL PLAY BY THE SCREENSHOTS, and if I am not mistaken it was the gameplay, not the graphics(or the hud), that made Deus Ex one of the greatest games of all time.

Serephin11
19th Jul 2003, 03:07
All I care about is the story, if its not as good or better than the original, i aint gettin it. Plus from the screen shots the graphics are excellent, and people worry about the hud?

thats my 2 cents

Catman
19th Jul 2003, 03:26
As for the warez issue: I do not read weishaupt as advocating warez; however, it's pretty close to the line. Let's just say that downloading warezed games is not something anyone should admit to on forums owned by a company in the business of marketing games, even if you eventually buy the game.

As to the issue of whining: People apparently like to worry over things which they have no control over. I for one trust Ion Storm to produce a game I will enjoy. Yes, I'm concerned over some of the decisions which have been made, but until I have the game running on my computer, I'm reserving judgment and comment.

Big Ragu
19th Jul 2003, 06:16
Developers frequently read forums and such to get user feedback, so I think "whining" is good in some cases about certain features that you would like in the game, etc.

But come on, don't whine about stuff like this, whats the point!? It isn't like Ion Storm is going to completely redo the gameplay. If I read another new thread that talks about how "I don't think IW is going to be good because blah, blah, blah. " I'm going to hit myself with a crowbar.

Mr.Tellurian
20th Jul 2003, 15:05
My two cents on DX2?
Well... judging by the screens, movies and facts so far I have high hopes that it will be a worthy successor of the best game ever created ;)
Btw: The Ingame music still made by Alexander Brandon? (the guy that made the same thing in DX1) I loved his BGMs in DX1, they added SO much to the game's identity and athmosphere... So I'd be very pleased if he'd be doing the BGMs on DX2... But well thats just my thoughts...
What I'm very curious about are the Missions that are going to be set in Germany... Being a German I come to find it quite funny how game developers think our country looks like. So I'm curious about wether these missions will be based on clichee or on research...

My two cents on the Inventory/HUD Issue:
I dislike the fact that the Incoming messages seem to be occupying the entire field of vision, even if they've got some transparency. And I actually don't care so much about the inventory as long as it doesn't makes the game unplayable. If the Athmosphere's right as well as the plot I really don't give a thing on the inventory.

soeren
20th Jul 2003, 22:23
Originally posted by Mr.Tellurian
[...]Being a German I come to find it quite funny how game developers think our country looks like. So I'm curious about wether these missions will be based on clichee or on research... [...]
Remember how they depicted Gunther Herman in DX1?
His dialect, his lisp, his attitude, his lederhosen :D

Mr.Tellurian
20th Jul 2003, 23:38
Oh yeah 'course I remember Gunther. And his Dialect-thingy (never heard a real talk like that... but that's probably just me... I mean *changes voice* nott evriehwon off uss haess siss nasstie aekksent! aektschullie no won autside holliewuut haes! *changes back to normal*) but I understand that certain exegerations are neccessary... And I don't have a real problem with that. ;) No really, I liked Gunther! Although I didn't get what his Killphrase was supposed to mean...

And I think of Leveldesign and Character Design as two diffrent things. A german Character has to sound like one. I would be a bad german character as I lack the distinctive dialect.
A "German" Level then again shouldn't be as cliche, espeacially not in a game like DX. Usually the foreign cliche of Germany is that we've got our puny small villages where all people run around in Lederhosen and stuff, drinking Beer all the time while performing strange rural dances - While Hitler is still Kaiser...
Allright you got me, now I am exagerating, but my point is that DX had a lot of distinctive Locations that had something typical to them while not being cliche. That is what I hope the DX2 will feature too...
*shudders when thinking of a possible in-game Enemy: "Dschörman Sekuritie Gard" displaying a Uniform that combines Body Armor with Lederhosen*

By the way the _worst_ thing a game ever did with Germany was RTCW. It was a fun play, but still a pain in the ass for me as the got nearly nothing correct.... but hell it's just a game ;)

Random
21st Jul 2003, 01:34
Good grief. It's been a while since a saw such an uninformed post (no offence).


Originally posted by weishaupt
the straightforward gameplay (find the key!)
Where on earth did you get this idea from? DX2 is not a 'find the key' game. :rolleyes:


the monsters (in one german video)
There were monsters in DX1 as well. Didn't stop it from being a great game.


the changes (biomods?)
The changes are for the better. Try thinking about them before you jump on the 'OMG ION DUMBED DOWN TEH GAME NONON!!1' bandwagon.


the hud (get with the times)
Apply this statement to yourself. The HUD is slick and effective. The only problem I have is with the infolink messages, but hopefully they'll be smaller on PC.


the lack of inventory

THERE IS AN INVENTORY, FOR GOODNESS' SAKE! The only change that's been made is that each item will take up one slot instead of several, but it IS still there.

Where does all this misinformation come from? I suppose siding with unreasonable pessimism takes less effort than checking the facts. :rolleyes:

I don't really mean this as an attack on you, but rather on the people who are spreading this false information. PLEASE, listen to what the developers say, not some teenaged forum-goer who has no idea what he's talking about.

operative x
22nd Jul 2003, 04:03
the HUD looks ok, but not an improvement on the previous DX2 HUD. And if it is too big for you there are options to make it more comfortable for your style of play and also by playing at a higher resolution the HUD will shrink.(I think)

Serephin11
22nd Jul 2003, 05:06
Theres no need to worry about the hud. If Ion storm had the brains to make DX the way they did, then surely in DX2 they would make the hud customizable, for PC at least anyway.

vick1000
22nd Jul 2003, 08:22
Oh darn,I thought the choices for the poll would be...

1.Yes,I want to hear your two cents.

2.No,put a sock in it.

Le`Sauveur`De`Ces`Dames
22nd Jul 2003, 09:06
yes it's always the problem when someone creates a poll: you can never find the answer that would suit you.

I would have liked an answer "Like everybody, I don't know enough about the game to vote on this poll"

crimson_stallion
22nd Jul 2003, 14:38
Originally posted by Catman
As for the warez issue: I do not read weishaupt as advocating warez; however, it's pretty close to the line. Let's just say that downloading warezed games is not something anyone should admit to on forums owned by a company in the business of marketing games, even if you eventually buy the game.

As to the issue of whining: People apparently like to worry over things which they have no control over. I for one trust Ion Storm to produce a game I will enjoy. Yes, I'm concerned over some of the decisions which have been made, but until I have the game running on my computer, I'm reserving judgment and comment.

Couldn't agree more. Well said. :)

operative x
22nd Jul 2003, 19:43
;) nicely put catman

AlphaAssailant666
22nd Jul 2003, 20:59
My two cents..

Im am dissapointed but im not sure yet. I will probably still buy it but i dont think it will live up to the first.


and if I am not mistaken it was the gameplay, not the graphics(or the hud), that made Deus Ex one of the greatest games of all time.

Yeah, it is about the gameplay but what if the hud AFFECTS THE GAMEPLAY for god sake. I mean i know i havent seen it in action but im just syaing WHAT IF, and if it doesnt i still think it looks too robotic

Other things i dislike:
-ammo is the same type (i mean how shallow can u get?)
-smaller levels (hopefully it wont affect the length of the game. p.s. they admitted it in an interview)

Neutral:
-No skills but it is replaced by biomods

Dont get me wrong it will still be a good game, the story will be good (hopefully)and graphics are awesome.

Yes I and others seems pesimistic but its just their opinion.

Big Ragu
22nd Jul 2003, 23:41
"The Quest stands upon the edge of a knife. Stray but a little, and it will fail, to the ruin of all. Yet hope remains while the Company is true."

Random
23rd Jul 2003, 05:25
Originally posted by AlphaAssailant666
-smaller levels (hopefully it wont affect the length of the game. p.s. they admitted it in an interview)


Can you provide a link to that interview? I ask because I've also seen a post on PDX's forums by a DX2 developer saying the levels are not smaller.

cball05
24th Jul 2003, 16:02
Originally posted by Catman
As to the issue of whining: People apparently like to worry over things which they have no control over.

Since the game is still in progress (although you wouldn't know it from the website :rolleyes: ) there's not much better to do in this forum other than praise DX1 and whine about DX2. Personally I'm waiting for a little more information, but from what's been provided it sounds like a very promising game. And just for the record, the devs were able to make a great DX1 without our input, so I wouldn't expect them to majorly mess up DX2 :)

Le`Sauveur`De`Ces`Dames
24th Jul 2003, 16:34
Originally posted by cball05
Since the game is still in progress (although you wouldn't know it from the website :rolleyes: ) there's not much better to do in this forum other than praise DX1 and whine about DX2. DX2 :)

I have an Idea, let's whine about DX1 and preise DX:IW, for a change

Mr.Tellurian
24th Jul 2003, 17:51
HERESY!! How DARE you even think about such a thing!! ;)

Well of course there WAS a random handfull of flaws whithin DX1... They just were not severe enough to ruin the game or making it not a hell of a fun to play...

cball05
25th Jul 2003, 17:48
Originally posted by Le`Sauveur`De`Ces`Dames
I have an Idea, let's whine about DX1 and praise DX:IW, for a change

Good idea :cool:

PDenton
25th Jul 2003, 19:53
I know that from what I've seen and heard there will be some differences that I don't like for example the big bulky HUD and the new inventory, :( but Ion Storm managed a great sucess with Deus Ex and I'm sure that they can do it again. I have faith in them.

*silent prayer* Please, Please don't screw this up !!

Besides some negative changes, they must be making making it better in other ways. Whatever happens I'm still going to buy the game. :D

AlphaAssailant666
27th Jul 2003, 19:46
err i can tifnd the post that had a link to it i think it ws like a sticky but i dunno... ughh

AlphaAssailant666
27th Jul 2003, 20:23
Well this is not the interview where he said that but a preview of the game. On page 3 it says how it will be a shorter game. http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/deusexinvisiblewar/preview_2910952.html

Le`Sauveur`De`Ces`Dames
28th Jul 2003, 08:18
Besides some negative changes

you don't know yet they will be negative changes. you only know they will be changes

El Padrino
30th Jul 2003, 13:00
Originally posted by weishaupt
i'd like to add my name to the list of people that think, based on given screens / movies / feedback so far that IW is going to be a bad game.

the straightforward gameplay (find the key!)
the monsters (in one german video)
the changes (biomods?)
the hud (get with the times)
the lack of inventory

what are they trying to do? enlarge the fanbase by making it all simpler? DX1 was GOTY, that's a big enough fanbase for anyone, isn't it? i'd be happy with a simple expansion for DX1 at this point.


How are you getting "straightforward gameplay" from simply looking at the screenshots and very few movies that don't really do anything but show off the graphics? I'd really be interested in knowing how a bunch of 1-3 minute videos of a game that will take hours to play, and a few still shots of some guys standing around gave you enough information to make such a bold judgment call. I obviously lack the ability discern all that, and would really like to be able to make such a bold judgement call the next time a company decides to release a few teaser shots of their upcomming game. (Knowing months ahead of time which games will have simple, straightforward gameplay, despite what the deceptive developers are saying, would really help me decide how my limited budget gets spent.)

Maybe the answer to your wonderous abilities is obvious. If it's not shown in the screenshots and videos, it's not in the game. That's probably it. After all, just like all that hacking, lockpicking, sneaking around and all that other good stuff, there's no inventory shown in the screenshots and videos, so it must not be in the game. I guess that's why so many people are complaining about it being shorter. How long was the longest video? Three or four minutes? Yeah, that's a pretty short game. And it doesn't even have an ending or storyline to follow. But then how do you know it's just going to be "find the key" gameplay? I didn't see a key in any of the released media for DX2. I must've missed something...

I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say with your "get with the times" criticism of the HUD. What about our times makes the current DX2 HUB outdated, or in some way not with our times?

I'd also be interested in knowing what exactly is wrong with simplifying something, and how the so called simplifications in DX2 are responsible for the degraded gameplay and overall, uh, badness of the game. All this time, I've been thinking less things to fumble with that have a more significant impact on gameplay was preferable to lots of things to fumbe with that, concequently, would each have a less significant impact on the gameplay. Apparently, though, that makes for a bad game.

I don't know, maybe when the game comes out, I'll scream for the old system, with it's plethora of skills, many of which only impacted gameplay two or three times in the entire game (and of those two or three times, none were significant), that were separate from it's many augs, three of four of which were worth using on a regular basis. After all, if there's one thing DX2 needs, it's more to mess around with for the sake of more to mess around with.

And what's up with the monsters in DX2? I mean, I know they were in Deus Ex and that game was great, but to have monsters in DX2 just makes it scream "bad, simple game." Who wants more of the same in a sequel, right? That's exactly why this game is going to be bad.

BrainPrawn
30th Jul 2003, 18:36
I think there may be a problem with expectations here as well. It reminds me a lot of the Star Wars prequels and the grief they seemed to cause a lot of people. (Follow me here for a second)

Everyone has had a long time since the original was released to think about "How they would have done it" and "How this or that should have been done". Many people already have DX:IW already installed in their minds and are critiquing it based on a lot of hearsay and their own opinions and expectations.

When they finally do get to play the game, they will go into it looking for certain things and if they are not immediately what they expected, then they will hate that it was not done "Their way". Besides, "Their way" would have worked better, right?

Everyone should go into this game with an open mind. They changed a few things that may or may not work better with the new game. I have had other game features that sounded dumb until I got to use them in-game and found they worked very well, so I will give them the benefit of the doubt.

The point is that no one will know until they play the final release of the game.

Well, that is my one cents worth. (I must have a hole in my pocket)

freakzilla11
1st Aug 2003, 15:26
Originally posted by AlphaAssailant666
Well this is not the interview where he said that but a preview of the game. On page 3 it says how it will be a shorter game. http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/deusexinvisiblewar/preview_2910952.html

It will be a shorter game if you blow through all of the main story and do nothing else.

sneelock
2nd Aug 2003, 00:23
the only change i want is to be able to shoot out some lights

yes yes your all laughing at me (i get that a lot):D

Sense
6th Aug 2003, 17:15
Originally posted by weishaupt
i'd like to add my name to the list of people that think, based on given screens / movies / feedback so far that IW is going to be a bad game.

the straightforward gameplay (find the key!)
the monsters (in one german video)
the changes (biomods?)
the hud (get with the times)
the lack of inventory

what are they trying to do? enlarge the fanbase by making it all simpler? DX1 was GOTY, that's a big enough fanbase for anyone, isn't it? i'd be happy with a simple expansion for DX1 at this point.

hey, it's not all bad... there are some good points.

the atmosphere (open corporate atmosphere)
the engine (looks good!)
the weapons (but i don't know if they can be modded yet)

add your two cents to the pile.

Making it smaller isn't a good idea, in my opinion. I don't know if that's what they're really doing, but if it is I'll be a little disappointed. I've heard it will still have lots of depth but I don't see how it's really possible with small levels and a shorter game. Personally, I loved the depth in deus ex.. but I want MORE depth in DX:IW. More character involvment and more options--less of YOU MUST DO THIS.

I haven't seen any screenshots with monsters, if they truly did add monsters that will seem a little odd... I don't mind karkians or greasels but if they're HL-like monsters, it'll be pretty dumb.

PDenton
6th Aug 2003, 18:10
Originally posted by Sense
Making it smaller isn't a good idea, in my opinion. I don't know if that's what they're really doing, but if it is I'll be a little disappointed. I've heard it will still have lots of depth but I don't see how it's really possible with small levels and a shorter game. Personally, I loved the depth in deus ex.. but I want MORE depth in DX:IW. More character involvment and more options--less of YOU MUST DO THIS.
I can't remember where it is but somone posted part of an interview that said that although the game's going to be shorter, there are going to be more side-missions. I also read that the levels are going to be bigger and look better with the new engine. I think it will just give you the option to complete the game quicker, but add much much more replayability.:)

Ion Storm managed to make Deus Ex well and they probably know better than to screw around too much. I think that they just wanted to try to meet a wider market who want to be able to play and complete a game quickly, whilst still catering for us die-hard fans who will play the game over and over again.:cool:

Picasso
9th Aug 2003, 11:53
Posted by drloomis, one of DX2's designers, on the PDX forums here (http://www.forumplanet.com/planetdeusex/topic.asp?fid=2757&tid=660681).


here's the deal:

dx1 was too long and had too much unused space. also, the narrative arc totally bogged down after a while. by the end of hong kong, you pretty much know what's up with the conspiracy and all that, but you have to go to paris and vandenberg and the ocean lab to do missions that had great gameplay but also didnt really move the story along at all.

plus, dx2 can be as long or short as you make it. it will take about 20 hours to play through the game if you just do all of the primary objectives and run through the whole thing quickly.

on the other hand, if you take advantage of the NUMEROUS side-quests and spend time exploring the spaces, you'll get a MUCH longer game. it's up to you.

add that to the fact that the story will dynamically react to your actions (unlike the first game, where lots of players wanted to stick with UNATCO after finding out that paul was with the NSF....unfortunately, the game did not support that) and consider that we're including way three times as many biomods as the first game (read: more character customization and replayability with different characters) and you guys have nothing to worry about.

also, maps are not smaller than in dx1, and even if they were it wouldnt be b/c of the xbox. anyone who saw our demo at e3 (which was running the EXACT same content on both the xbox and the pc) knows that we can put a LOT of stuff in a dx2 map.

quotes can be read many different ways, and often quotes are mere paraphrases that totally misrepresent what was actually said.

and we are certainly not dumbing the game down for the consoles. if anything, we're trying to set a new standard of just how amazing a console game can be.

x Rich x
10th Aug 2003, 09:58
Thank you for that. It makes me feel better about the game, and hopefully will go towards killing some of this pointless negativity.

People seem to be forming opinions based on a whole bunch of rumours.

Trollslayer
10th Aug 2003, 11:48
Originally posted by x Rich x
People seem to be forming opinions based on a whole bunch of rumours.

Sadly, not only that applies to many takes on games before they're out, but it also applies to many real life situations :(

operative x
10th Aug 2003, 20:01
Guys! Guys! stop being sucked in by the rumors! Dx2 will be a great game. If you guys continue to worry about the HUD, flashy weapons, punching, then the game will seem less appealing to you more and more.

W.C. Duck
10th Aug 2003, 23:35
I'm not sure that DX2 will be as good as DX1.

What I AM sure of that I will find out the day the game is released here in the Netherlands.

There's just too little info about the game to say anything about how good it will be. For the actual effects of the changes they made (whether it's the 'skills', or inventory, or ammo, or whatever, IF THOSE RUMOURS ARE TRUE, which I doubt) you'll have to wait until you've actually played the game.

The only changes that one can judge right now, are the graphics and texture-design. This is just a small part of the whole game, and they can be changed the last days before the game-discs are being produced.

I personally think Ion Storm should do so, because I don't like the HUD that much, and the weapon design isn't that much good either (all the lights and backlit displays). I actually posted a thread about this, but for some reason I can't find it in the list.

As far as the rest of the game is concerned, I can't do much more than wait and pray.

I trust Ion Storm to not let us down.


hopefully will go towards killing some of this pointless negativity. - x Rich x

It's not pointless, and it's also not negativity (at least not all of it).
Most of it are posts from concerned gamers who want the game of the century (my opinion) to get a worthy no. 2.
The point of those posts is to warn the developers for possible flaws and to discuss their opinion with others (thank god for this forum).

Does anyone have change for a nickel?

drone1984
11th Aug 2003, 00:01
eh...

I also did not like the monsters in DX1... Well the grays were cool, and they were a great addition to the story...

I like killing/beating/stunning/tricking/electrocuting people a lot more than I like doing all those mean things to poor, innocent animals... That, and the %@#$ poisen spittle from the green things is $#@#$#$#@$ing irritating.

I expect the game play to be less linear than the origional, however it HAS to be linear to a point.

The HUD... ... looks gay... But we'll have to wait and see... I'm sure they will have an alpha control on it, if they dont have a control to change it.

As for the warez issue - get over yourselves. A demo is NOT a gauge of a good game - RTCW Beta Multiplayer was awesome!! ... Retail... not so awesome. If you buy anything more than 20 dollars without trying it out first - you are an idiot! Plus, if it wasn't for warez, I would have never known that DX existed!! I played the demo, and if that's all I had, I would have never bought it. NEVER. After acquiring the game illegally, I looked around for it in the stores - and guess what? Nobody sold it. I spent 70 bucks getting it over-nighted to me. [this is of course after I got a job] This issue was origionally about people selling illigitimate software, now it's about people sharing IP, with no money involved - and if someone really likes the game - meaning you did your job, they will probably buy it anyway - what's the big f'n deal? You discriminate against people who preffer food to games?

Trollslayer
11th Aug 2003, 00:23
Originally posted by W.C. Duck
It's not pointless, and it's also not negativity (at least not all of it).
Most of it are posts from concerned gamers who want the game of the century (my opinion) to get a worthy no. 2.
The point of those posts is to warn the developers for possible flaws and to discuss their opinion with others (thank god for this forum).

The problem begins when the majority of it is negative and/or pointless. If you look closely you'll only see posts like:

"Hi i'm Joe i don't like how the game is turning out, please make a game specially tailored for me, because i have internet access, and i'm always right!!" - the kind of "fan" that thinks games are custom made for him and him alone.

or

"Hello i'm Jack, and i'd like DX:IW to have X feature, Y feature and Z feature because its teh kewl!!" - the kind of "fan" that liked a cheesy aspect in some god-forsaken FPS or MMOG and wants it applied to every upcoming game, forgetting that every game is different, and therefore, there isnt' a point for all games to be the same.

or

"Dear sirs, your are being idiots! Dont 'change the HUDs, you don't know what you're doing!" - the type of "fans" that forget that they are not in the industry, and also forget that there's a reason for a company making a game - because they know what they're doing!! I really don't think these people realize what they are saying when they claim a company is wrong by doing something when the company itself (and its members) have been going sucessfully in the industry for years, and the anonymous user on the forum who has only played games for about 7 years thinks he has it all. God, 'tis frustrating!

Not forgetting the majority of this type of crap is usually posted by so called "fans" who actually only make 1 post and never return again - that's not being a fan, and its neither being concerned about the game. How many of you wanna bet they'll return after the game is released, and will whine about how the game isn't what they wanted? Hell, they're supposed to be fans and still ask questions which are already common knowledge about the game, or make whining comments based on outdated information.

Whats sad is that there are only a handful of people here who actually come up with good ideas, the rest is all regurgitated crap which, if included in DX:IW, would make it so bad, it would even stink more than the usual "Yo momma is so fat..." jokes.

Not only that, most reactions are due to what - some movies and some images? How does that make anyone have instant deductive powers over something they haven't even played? Most of them whine about gameplay being cut down - they haven't frickin' played the game yet!!! :eek:

If all the posts here would be taken into account by the developpers, then by god, i wouldnt' even look at DX:IW if it was staring at me with puppy eyes on my gamestore.

operative x
11th Aug 2003, 01:33
"The HUD... ... looks gay" Do you even know what the hell you are talking about my god!, FIRST see it in action, the thing DOESN'T get in your way. It DOESN'T look ugly!
Ya know trollslayer, you just can't please some people. Some will hate the HUD, some will hate the weapons, some will hate the small unimportant monsters:/

AlphaAssailant666
11th Aug 2003, 02:48
When i saw screen shots i thought it looked too robotic and would get in my way but after seeing an in-game movie i thought the HUD worked very nice. However operative x, its there opinion if they think it looks ugly.

Le`Sauveur`De`Ces`Dames
11th Aug 2003, 07:54
hmmm, I was so glad the word "gay" wasn't used here just as a basic insult (until now).

What I would like, is NEW screenshots, so we can see the evolution.

(and maybe, I don't know, a trailer...)

Trollslayer
11th Aug 2003, 11:21
Originally posted by Le`Sauveur`De`Ces`Dames
hmmm, I was so glad the word "gay" wasn't used here just as a basic insult (until now).


I fully agree with you. Hey, mayhaps we should ask Catman to see if the word can be banned.

BrainPrawn
11th Aug 2003, 14:01
True, its not a very "PC" word, but then again...

I HATE BEING PC!

Le`Sauveur`De`Ces`Dames
11th Aug 2003, 14:30
it's not a problem of being "PC".
it's a problem of using a word (and as an insult) outside of its meaning.
and I don't think using "gay" as an insult can be justified. I mean, I haven't seen anyone on any forum say "this game is so WASP" or "this game is so hetero", either.

BrainPrawn
11th Aug 2003, 14:34
"this game is so WASP"

Caused me to guffaw!

Agreed, the word "gay" is not bad itself until it is used the wrong way.

Catman
11th Aug 2003, 16:20
Yes, it would be best to avoid using gay to mean bad. Since that usage sparked a useful debate, I'm going to leave it alone in this thread.

But in the future, I'll star it out.

cball05
11th Aug 2003, 16:59
Originally posted by Le`Sauveur`De`Ces`Dames
What I would like, is NEW screenshots, so we can see the evolution.

(and maybe, I don't know, a trailer...)

Don't worry, I'm sure new screenshots are "coming soon" - in the next 20 years at least. :rolleyes:

drone1984
12th Aug 2003, 23:02
Actually morons, if you should remember that gay is synonymous with merry, you might actually understand the word's history... Back in the 60s and early 70s it was used to describe something that was unreasonably exuberant or merry - like someone on PCP. It was teH homo-gh3y groups THEMSELVES that called themselves gay. They didn't like being "queers" as "queer" sounds kinda... queer... So since gay means happy, it's even better!!! Super Specialer even! In semi-modern terminology it means flippant, or trendish... So..

The hud looks... gay... However I'm sure there will be an alpha control, or perhaps some way to change it - but I can't really tell if that's necessary until I play the actual game. I too saw the gameplay videos, and it looked like it had a great deal of potential to get in the way - which is unacceptable... But like I said now twice, we'll have to wait until we play ourselves until we can decide for sure.

Trollslayer
12th Aug 2003, 23:36
Originally posted by drone1984
Actually morons, if you should remember that gay is synonymous with merry, you might actually understand the word's history... Back in the 60s and early 70s it was used to describe something that was unreasonably exuberant or merry - like someone on PCP. It was teH homo-gh3y groups THEMSELVES that called themselves gay. They didn't like being "queers" as "queer" sounds kinda... queer... So since gay means happy, it's even better!!! Super Specialer even! In semi-modern terminology it means flippant, or trendish... So..


I already knew the term's origin, but thanks for the insult though, im just sure it was needed. :rolleyes:

Le`Sauveur`De`Ces`Dames
13th Aug 2003, 07:59
to answer to drone1984:
I have nothing against using "gay" to talk about homosexuals. (I think that was clear from my previous post)
what I HAVE something against, is using "gay" as a synonym for "bad, lame, ..." and other insults, since (as you posted) it doesn't refer to the original meaning, but rather to a negative view of the homosexual community.
this disturbs me even more, that I see it used that way in many posts on many forums (worst of all been the battle.net forums), without been banned.
(and no, I'm not gay. but I'm merry, and not too exuberant)

drone1984
13th Aug 2003, 08:40
Sorry for the un-needed insult, but I'm getting really tired with all this *****-BS about the words we use, and the implications of those words... I use a lot of words that just spew hate themselves, while I myself hold no begrudging feelings towards these people. I know you're not "gay" because you complained about it. I've noticed that most of the PC anti-hate stuff is pushed by a bunch of ***** white boys with no connection to reality. The only gays offended by that, are those that are just looking for something to be offended by. The same is true about racial slurrs and sexist remarks. [especially the sexist, because women are always looking for something to be offended about] Most the people who are offended are people who aren't in the least bit related to the situation. I wasn't offended when someone said the hud was "WASP" - and I would have just as much right to be offended as a gay would on my comments. I'm a WASP, and I happen to be the minority in my area, but I surely am not offended to be called a WASP...

"OH no he called it 'gay'!" Get over it. Life is mean, and so am I.

Le`Sauveur`De`Ces`Dames
13th Aug 2003, 09:29
I wasn't offended when someone said the hud was "WASP"
nobody did. I just used that to show NOBODY would use that as an insult try reading the whole post next time, even the first page

[especially the sexist, because women are always looking for something to be offended about]
hmmm I won't even bother for this one

Life is mean, and so am I.
lot of people here are polite, you could also try

Catman
13th Aug 2003, 13:10
Call it what you will, but using the word "gay" to mean "bad' is not allowed on these forums. If you don't like that, there are other places you can choose to be.

End of discussion.