PDA

View Full Version : Extra question for Chris



Hanpolo
18th Jul 2003, 03:52
Hi everyone,

What is Nosgoth, a land, a continent, or a planet?

That way we can get a better perspective on the scope of the story. Does it afects the entire planet or just an area arond the pilars?

What is the main religious believe?

We had seen many Cathedrals and churches, dedicated to whom? We know some people pray to demons others to vampire gods, but I have the impression that humans have a very organized church based on one divine god of life, heaven and light. Or at least they thinhk there is one.

How does the evolution of vampires works?
From watching Kain, we know that after 400 years, he still doesn't have the "clawvens"( I think that is the word for the claws). Nor any of the other vampires that he encountered in BO2, with the exception of Vorador and Janus, had changed that much.

What are the identities of the circle guardians that Vorador decimated?

I don't expect Chris to tell us things related to the story behind their attack, but it will be nice for us to know their names and their decinated guardianship. Also explain why any of them did not look like their replacements. I did not see any sings of their colum tokens. No Nunraptor' s kind of head(especially this one because the other may leave their token behind or keep them out of sight but the head should have been visible,), no anthlers, no insulated rope(for the energy body), no third eye, etc...
I am sure their some kind of explanation, and we can expeculte but I will like some thing more... oficial from CD.

It will be nice to have the extra information. It hepls to make the world of Nosgoth more complete without giving out any elemnts of defiance's polt. And It is an extra bone to keep us beassy untill the next game arrives.

Hanpolo out.

punkst4r
18th Jul 2003, 04:15
I think that Nosgoth is the whole world because some of the characters mentioned that by kain refusing the sacrafice he damned the whole world.
I think that this thread should be some where else because I don't see what it has to do with defiance.....Oh well I don't really care soooo....hope it helps.:D :)

Glucolisis
18th Jul 2003, 05:30
I posted the same question like 2 years ago and we didn`t get to any conclusion.

You can say that it is earth with another name.

blincoln
18th Jul 2003, 07:44
I get the impression that it's more of a fantasy world. Maybe it's not even round, just a plane that extends as far as necessary to tell the story.

Matt from Spam Buddies
18th Jul 2003, 08:57
I recall hearing from somewhere that vampires get their 3-clawed hands and 2-hooved legs, when they reach the age of 1000 years.

In TLOKS-BO2, Kain and all the other vampires he had encountered, we're merely let's say maybe 600-700 years old?

When a vampire is born, then it looks almost human. But eventually the nails on hands become stronger and become claws. And later on they become 3-clawed. And then the skin starts to change. Vorador and Kain, for example, are green-ish in their high age.

As for Nosgoth, I believe it's a planet, named after its single continent named Nosgoth. But none of this have had any confirmation, and I doubt it will. But we'll see.

- Matthew

Valaquen_
18th Jul 2003, 13:25
I recall hearing from somewhere that vampires get their 3-clawed hands and 2-hooved legs, when they reach the age of 1000 years.

I have some knowledge in demonology, and according to folklore the older a vampire gets then the more demonic he/she will become, until it becomes siniliar to its demon brethern, so Kain and Voradors evolution are meant to resemble that of demons, the word demon actually describes a human being capable of performing god-like feats, its no wonder that Raziel described themselves as Dark Gods. I think thats the reason behind their evolution anyway.

Oh BTW I've heard people refer to enemies as Seraphim, do they mean Sarafan?

Seraphim: The highest order of angels. God’s grace flows through the seraphim to the angels below, dispelling darkness and purifying the universe.

I guess thats how the sarafan see themselves huh?

Matt from Spam Buddies
18th Jul 2003, 14:32
Apparently so.

It is said that 3 claws and 2 hooves are symbol of demons, the forces of evil and darkness.

- Matthew

Dark God Francisco
18th Jul 2003, 15:16
Originally posted by leazy
I have some knowledge in demonology, and according to folklore the older a vampire gets then the more demonic he/she will become, until it becomes siniliar to its demon brethern, so Kain and Voradors evolution are meant to resemble that of demons, the word demon actually describes a human being capable of performing god-like feats, its no wonder that Raziel described themselves as Dark Gods. I think thats the reason behind their evolution anyway.

Oh BTW I've heard people refer to enemies as Seraphim, do they mean Sarafan?

Seraphim: The highest order of angels. God’s grace flows through the seraphim to the angels below, dispelling darkness and purifying the universe.

I guess thats how the sarafan see themselves huh?

I knew it vampires are demons but there pride and arrogance just makes them not accept that fact.

Valaquen_
18th Jul 2003, 19:55
so does seraphim = Sarafan?:confused:

Umah Bloodomen
19th Jul 2003, 03:08
The Sarafan are technically a holy order (with Raz & Co. being warrior priests). Because of this, the variation of the Seraphim is present.

As far as Nosgoth is concerned, I believe it's a continent. Obviously there are other islands/continents surrounding it (Hylden City being present on one of them).

You can find a related discussion here. (http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6452&highlight=Nosgoth+land+planet+or+continent%3F)

As far as the *religious belief* system of Nosgoth, I believe that a variant of real-world Christianity is the major religious sect (to which the Sarafan and many villagers presumably belong to). Paganism is also quite evident (because of the various occultish activity happening). I would assume of course you have your variants of the main religion as well (ranging from anything like real-world the Lutheranism, Protestant, Catholicism, as well as Judaism, Hinduism etc.)

In response to the places of worship inquiry, I believe that of course that many of the places would be related to the specific sect in any given area. You of course have your exceptions within the Human Citadel, Silenced Cathedral, Avernus (specifically the alter of Hash'ak'gik below it), which are the places where occultish activity transpired beneath the guise of a typical religion.

The speed of vampiric evolution hasn't been established. Obviously Kain underwent a physical change (skin pigment, hair pigment), but he's still a relatively young vampire in BO2. (Only 400 years old or so). Vorador and Janos are ancient vampires (moreso Janos, who even predates Vorador). You're talking a millenia at least for their age, which allows for plenty of evolutionary changes, IMO. Also, I and many others have speculated before that after so many changes over so much time, that eventually no more can change physically. Also, you can't really use BO2 as a good example of evolution on account that a different team worked on the title, and many graphical changes occurred which really had nothing to do with their evolution, however was a result of *creative license*.

The six guardians who fell to Vorador in SR2, have yet to be named. Obviously their titles were: Balance, The Mind, Energy, Dimension, States, and Nature. (Process of elimination, seeing how Mortanius (Death), Moebius (Time) and Malek (Conflict) were the only ones who survived). Also, the energy token is an insulating cloak not rope, and I just assumed that they were passed down to their replacements after the slaughter. (With of course the exception of the Death Orb, Helmet and Hourglass).

It isn't clear if each guardian was allowed to choose their own token which served as the conduit between their pillar and themselves or if they were passed down.

EDIT: Spelling adjustment.

The_Hylden
19th Jul 2003, 05:21
With regards to the cloven hands and the two toed feet being of a Demonic resemblance, then why do the Ancients have them before the blood curse in the Murals? Unless you are saying they are a Demonic race. I find it fascinating still that a breed of Humans who became Vampires, ones who weren't infected the same way (blood gift) but of necromancy (raising their souls) would have the same features as a race before such a curse. I think it is related to the Ancients, not to a demonic resemblance. Of course, if Janos' beast form in BO2 was his true form, then maybe they both are related to a demonic form. I hope more of the relation between the two classes of Vampires is addressed in Defiance.

Hanpolo
20th Jul 2003, 03:31
Thanks Uhma, you are always a light in the darkness.. or perhaps a shadow in the light.

Yes, I tend to agree with most people in the forum. Nosgoth is a continent or the main continent.

In regards to the question of religion, I reasoned out pretty much the same way Uhma did. But I was hoping for some clarification from Chris. I just want to know if the humans(including the Sarafans) believe in one powerfull benebolent god. It could be that Moebius and the circle have so much influence on the land that the humans are mistakenly worshipping our little squid as the benevolent god.


As for the decimated circle... I just want to know more periferal information. Perhaps Chris can tell us things that are not important to the game and the story but could only be importnat to lunatics fans that look for every single detail.
We know which guardians were killed by Vorador and we have their faces from SR2 but can we match them? I think that information will never get addressed in any of the future games but it could be great for all us to know.

Perhaps after Defiance we can put a list of things that we will like to know or to be clarify then add it all to the art book that someone subgested before.


Hanpolo out

Dark God Francisco
20th Jul 2003, 04:11
Originally posted by Umah Bloodomen
The Sarafan are technically a holy order (with Raz & Co. being warrior priests). Because of this, the variation of the Seraphim is present.

As far as Nosgoth is concerned, I believe it's a continent. Obviously there are other islands/continents surrounding it (Hylden City being present on one of them).

You can find a related discussion here. (http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6452&highlight=Nosgoth+land+planet+or+continent%3F)

As far as the *religious belief* system of Nosgoth, I believe that a variant of real-world Christianity is the major religious sect (to which the Sarafan and many villagers presumably belong to). Paganism is also quite evident (because of the various occultish activity happening). I would assume of course you have your variants of the main religion as well (ranging from anything like real-world the Lutheranism, Protestant, Catholicism, as well as Judaism, Hinduism etc.)

In response to the places of worship inquiry, I believe that of course that many of the places would be related to the specific sect in any given area. You of course have your exceptions within the Human Citadel, Silenced Cathedral, Avernus (specifically the alter of Hash'ak'gik below it), which are the places where occultish activity transpired beneath the guise of a typical religion.

The speed of vampiric evolution hasn't been established. Obviously Kain underwent a physical change (skin pigment, hair pigment), but he's still a relatively young vampire in BO2. (Only 400 years old or so). Vorador and Janos are ancient vampires (moreso Janos, who even predates Vorador). You're talking a millenia at least for their age, which allows for plenty of evolutionary changes, IMO. Also, I and many others have speculated before that after so many changes over so much time, that eventually no more can change physically. Also, you can't really use BO2 as a good example of evolution on account that a different team worked on the title, and many graphical changes occurred which really had nothing to do with their evolution, however was a result of *creative license*.

The six guardians who fell to Vorador in SR2, have yet to be named. Obviously their titles were: Balance, The Mind, Energy, Dimension, States, and Nature. (Process of elimination, seeing how Mortanius (Death), Moebius (Time) and Malek (Conflict) were the only ones who survived). Also, the energy token is an insulating cloak not rope, and I just assumed that they were passed down to their replacements after the slaughter. (With of course the exception of the Death Orb, Helmet and Hourglass).

It isn't clear if each guardian was allowed to choose their own token which served as the conduit between their pillar and themselves or if they were passed down.

EDIT: Spelling adjustment.


Hmm from what I read in SR1 and SR2 manuals it seem to me that vampires in LOK can actually choose when to evolve but not what to get during the evolution this evidenced further by what Raziel said in the SR1 intro in which Kain always evolved first then his children.

Umah Bloodomen
20th Jul 2003, 04:33
You're quite welcome, Hanpolo. :)


Originally posted by Dark God Francisco
Hmm from what I read in SR1 and SR2 manuals it seem to me that vampires in LOK can actually choose when to evolve but not what to get during the evolution this evidenced further by what Raziel said in the SR1 intro in which Kain always evolved first then his children.

I suppose I can agree with that to an extent, (as far as timing is concerned), although as with butterflies for example (no pun intended to my favorite deity of course ;) ), I would assume that their bodies told them when that time would come, and then they naturally would go down the line until they each completed the process.

I didn't get the impression that vampire Raziel was typically defiant of Kain, so I don't believe that he vindictively made it a point to *surpass the master*, however, if Kain actually was complete in his physical evolution (which I believe he was), then his body wouldn't feel the need to do it first, giving the Jawless Wonder ample opportunity to continue forth with his own.

Naturally they're not all going to do this at the same time (the empire would be vulernable). But at the same token, there's only so much *putting it off* that can hapen. When you've got to change, you've got to change, and Kain just didn't have to change, IMO.

Dark God Francisco
20th Jul 2003, 15:25
Originally posted by Umah Bloodomen
You're quite welcome, Hanpolo. :)



I suppose I can agree with that to an extent, (as far as timing is concerned), although as with butterflies for example (no pun intended to my favorite deity of course ;) ), I would assume that their bodies told them when that time would come, and then they naturally would go down the line until they each completed the process.

I didn't get the impression that vampire Raziel was typically defiant of Kain, so I don't believe that he vindictively made it a point to *surpass the master*, however, if Kain actually was complete in his physical evolution (which I believe he was), then his body wouldn't feel the need to do it first, giving the Jawless Wonder ample opportunity to continue forth with his own.

Naturally they're not all going to do this at the same time (the empire would be vulernable). But at the same token, there's only so much *putting it off* that can hapen. When you've got to change, you've got to change, and Kain just didn't have to change, IMO.



Well maybe physically Kain has reached a peak if not the peak. But that does not say anything about powers or power level so if kain was given enough time say 25 million years imagine how powerful he will be.

And yeah I agree Raz didn't mean to openly defy kain among the brothers he along with Turel were the most Loyal its just that durng one of his changes he evolved something no vampire in nosgoth had had he evolved a power say Kain's BO1 lightning spell(which he probably has) Kain wouldn't have had a problem with it since he already had it and it was stronger.

Like I said they can probably choose when to evolve but not what they get from the evolution so it really it really wans't Raz fault he got wings and also he said he surpassed his lord but his tone was never arrogant or defiant he was quite obidient to Kain.

And his tone when he was tossed into the abyss it sounded exactly like someone who felt betrayed after Raz serving Kain faithfully for a millenia he got discarded, cast aside like trash since he thought Kain never even took into account the centuries of service and loyalty he gave him.

Vampmaster
20th Jul 2003, 16:21
Originally posted by Dark God Francisco
I knew it vampires are demons but there pride and arrogance just makes them not accept that fact.

The LOK series sometimes has it's own folklore. For example the writers of LOK chose (AFIK) to have crosses and garlic not work and for water to burn regardless of weather it's holy and for other impaling things than stakes to work. When the term demon is used in Nosgoth it tends to mean evil, but if you're going off the meaning Leazy gave because vampires being demons doesn't make them evil, just "human beings capable of performing god-like feats". That either means the Hylden and the Ancients are both human or since they're not human, they're not demons.

I'd guess that meaning of the word has been lost in Nosgoth as much as it has in real life.

Dark God Francisco
20th Jul 2003, 20:41
Originally posted by Vampmaster
The LOK series sometimes has it's own folklore. For example the writers of LOK chose (AFIK) to have crosses and garlic not work and for water to burn regardless of weather it's holy and for other impaling things than stakes to work. When the term demon is used in Nosgoth it tends to mean evil, but if you're going off the meaning Leazy gave because vampires being demons doesn't make them evil, just "human beings capable of performing god-like feats". That either means the Hylden and the Ancients are both human or since they're not human, they're not demons.

I'd guess that meaning of the word has been lost in Nosgoth as much as it has in real life.

Hmm I never thought of that then again vampires are technically human only with a few afflictions and super human abilties Hylden and Ancients have human like characteristics who knows.

Mrxknown
9th Feb 2004, 07:05
Originally posted by Umah Bloodomen
... and I just assumed that they were passed down to their replacements after the slaughter. (With of course the exception of the Death Orb, Helmet and Hourglass).

It isn't clear if each guardian was allowed to choose their own token which served as the conduit between their pillar and themselves or if they were passed down.

Well if they didn't choose their own token, then I surmise that Nuraptors' head was around for a LONG time, before he was born :D

Chris@Crystal
9th Feb 2004, 21:44
Hey there Hanpolo,
I can try to answer some of your questions:

What is Nosgoth, a land, a continent, or a planet?
It has always been referred to as the Land of Nosgoth.

That way we can get a better perspective on the scope of the story. Does it affect the entire planet or just an area around the pillars?
I don't think a planet has ever been mentioned in the series. Since it is just a story, not all rules of science or logic apply. :)

What is the main religious believe?
I would say there are many religious beliefs, depending on who you are and what time period you are in. Humans, Vampires, Hylden, and demons have different beliefs for sure.

How does the evolution of vampires works?
I would say it takes time for vampires to evolve. There would not really be a set time, but it might depend more on abilities that a vampire might pick up along his path of unlife. Also in the LOK games vampires are created in different ways. I would just say the evolutions of vampires varies from one to the next.

What are the identities of the circle guardians that Vorador decimated?
If you are asking for their names, I don't think that has been revealed yet in the LOK games. But I do remember there being a thread around here somewhere about giving them names at one time.

Hope this answers some of your questions.
~Chris