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View Full Version : Understanding the ending [SPOLILERS]



owen10
14th Jul 2003, 13:36
Ok. This is the thread where we talk about the game's ending, and not the software. ;)

I don't really understand what Karel was and how he can have helped Lara all the way through the game. We see that he used various forms to help Lara, but few of them make much sense.

For example, if he was the reporter who supplied Lara with the Strahov code, how can he have died at Eckhardt's hands? We see this happen in a cutscene.

Equally, Bouchard tries to kill Lara with the Cleaner. This doesn't make much sense if Karel is Bouchard, since he needs Lara to obtain the three shards.

There are more, and they seem to contradict each other. Anyone have any opinions on this? :confused:

Silvers
14th Jul 2003, 14:15
I think (and other threads agree) that Karel (who the ??? is he anyway - Lara seemed to know him - maybe met him in a bar in a cut scene or something), anyway, Karel took the place of various people at one time or another but that the characters themselves were real people (before they died).

I didn't really care by this stage. I hated the end, I didn't really like the game but it was "okay", I just disassociated it from the Lara I knew from all the precious games. Bugs weren't a big problem for me, my PC seemed okay with it.

But then in the last few levels/scenes, I began to really hate it.

There is a huge beast at the end and you can't defeat it - its called stupidity

a) Kurtis only uses his blade to kill Boaz after she stabs him.

b) Eckhardt is behind a glowing forcefield but runs in occasionally for the specific purpose of allowing you to kill him. Why?

c) Karel lets you run off and fires crappy firebolts at you that are just annoying.

d) He also leaves the only thing that can kill him lying not 1 metre away when he takes off after you.

These guys do not deserve to run the world - I hate stupidity and it unfortunately is becoming more and more a feature of entertainment.

Anyway - I wanted to shoot something - with a big gun.

By the way, any crap grammar or spelling mistakes are carelessness, so no - hah you can't even write properly, how can you complain about stupidity. I'm just very lazy. Some would say incredibly lazy but they are just being hurtful.

owen10
14th Jul 2003, 14:19
If he took the places of people, how come we saw him morph into them at the end of the game? Did he just hide the real people or something? Seems a bit of a stretch.

Don't take my thread off topic. There are loads of threads about complaining, go and moan in one of them, please. :)

Silvers
14th Jul 2003, 14:33
I came across the bodies of at least three of those people in the game. Besides I don't think he possessed them or anything, he could pose as them when they were still alive - like he did eckhardt when he killed Von Croy.

owen10
14th Jul 2003, 14:36
That's a good point. But one of the people Karel morphs into is the reporter (shown at the end). Are we to assume he hid the body, pretended to be him, and thus the real reporter was killed? Maybe the real one initially talked to Lara, and when he came back with the code that was Karel. The real one could have been taken inbetween when snooping round. I guess. :confused:

I wonder when he pretended to be Kurtis though?

Silvers
14th Jul 2003, 14:50
Don't know - I didn't actually pick up on the "Karel being other people when Lara met them" until I read some other threads. I had originally assumed that the people you meet are just he people you met. If he was doing any impersonating it was with other people - e.g. impersonating Bouchard to help you behind the scenes kinda thing.

It is more likely that the people he impersonates are people he met to help Lara - for instance he impersonated a contact that could get the reporter a code. The reporter gets it then gets killed. He impersonates someone else when he mets Kurtis - maybe Lara and that's how Kurtis gets caught so easily just before the boaz thing.

It's kinda confusing. I didn't really think about it too much till now. I expect the real answer is that its quite a cool effect and the writers know sad people like me will come up with stuff far more complex than necessary to explain it!

owen10
14th Jul 2003, 16:04
Originally posted by Silvers
It's kinda confusing. I didn't really think about it too much till now. I expect the real answer is that its quite a cool effect and the writers know sad people like me will come up with stuff far more complex than necessary to explain it!
Presumably to distract us from talking about the game's faults. :D I just hope the next game clears a few things up, like how Lara knows Karel. It's obvious she does, as she says "Too many people have died for me to trust you", insuating she otherwise would.

Aquitaine
14th Jul 2003, 19:11
Originally posted by owen10
Presumably to distract us from talking about the game's faults. :D I just hope the next game clears a few things up, like how Lara knows Karel. It's obvious she does, as she says "Too many people have died for me to trust you", insuating she otherwise would.

Not to mention, the tone of voice in which she says his name indicates that it's someone she knew - but wouldn't have expected to see there.

I like the idea of an ongoing storyline, I just hope they don't ignore it all when they move on to the next game.

Marijn
14th Jul 2003, 19:14
Here's my two cents:

To my opinion, Karel was Nephilim and therefore was able to change into other forms (this is shown during the last bossbattle)--though he's NOT the Sleeper itself. But he couldn't actually BE all those people all along, because in that case the murders we get to see wouldn't make sence at all. After all, Eckhardt DOES get 'stronger' after each killing, it's not that they are fake murders. SO the statement that there actually never was a real Bouchard or reporter is therefore wrong to my opinion. So Karel takes the forms of others to help Lara...but why? Think about this: What if Karel was a Nephilim all along but kept this a secret to everyone? He probabaly has been a member of the Cabal ever since the day that group got founded, just like Eckhardt (Eckhardt found a way for immortality after all). His goal, just like Eckhardt's, was to awaken the Sleeper and by that reviving his own race once again. He wouldn't want Eckardt to be in control over this race (and thus the world) though, but at the same time also needed his black magic alchaemist powers to actually do the job. He obviously couldn't do it with his own Nephilim powers. So all this time he played the roll of Karel, being a loyal follower of Eckhardt. He made sure that nothing would stand in the way for Lara, since with her arrival the final awakening of the sleeper was at hand. In order to get in contact with her he changed into people that she had met before, and this way could give her crucial items and help. In the end, when the Sleeper was almost fully awakened by Eckhardt, Karel finally revealed his true identity, including to Eckhardt. Karel didn't need Eckhardt's black magic anymore at that moment and therefore simply got rid of him (the 3rd Shard). After he found out that Lara wasn't gonna join him in his plans (reviving the Nephilim race), the only thing left for him to do was getting rid of her as well. This is where things went bad for him for the first time ever. Not only wasn't he able to kill her (our Lara is quick and strong...gotto love her ), but also was she able to destroy the Sleeper in the process...the only artifact that could ever revitilize the Nephilim race...oops!! Good thing that he got destroyed along with it as well....good riddance and a happy end!!
Now, all of this still does not explain how Lara knew Karel or his name. I'm sure that in the original story plan there was a part where she would get to deal with this specific Cabal member and/or meet him. Obviously that part didn't make it into the game for whatever reason. But apart from this minor plothole, I still think the plot was pretty cool! Karel, the last living Nephilim, tricked and used everyone, even his own 'boss'....cheeky b*astard! Gotto like him hehe .


All of this is my own opinion about the plot. I can't and won't guarantee that this opinion is perfect, but it does the job for me I guess!

owen10
14th Jul 2003, 22:07
Does the job for me as well. :)

But when are we to assume Karel used Kurtis' identity to aid Lara? In Paris, the Louvre, the Sanitarium or against Boaz?

In Paris, Kurtis doesn't speak to Lara, or help her in any way.

At the Louvre we see Karel knock out both Lara and Kurtis. We know this because Lara runs out to see Kurtis' body on the ground, after which a guard hits Lara unconscious. What's odd is that Karel is shown disguised as the doorman, Bouchard's supposed bodyguard. This itself doesn't make a lot of sense, but tells us that Kurtis must have been real, and not Karel.

Then, we control him at both the Sanitarium and against Boaz. I'm obviously reading too much into this, but I can't see where he could have been Kurtis. It all seems annoyingly contradictory, unless I'm missing something. :confused: