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One_Winged_Angel
11th Jul 2003, 22:36
I apologize if this has been mentioned before, but I'm at work right now and I don't really have enough time to search through all of the LOK forums.

By the end of SR2 we could all tell that Moebius was a twisted, devious, little snake, and if I remember correctly even his staff is a snake, and this was centuries before Ariel's murder and the corruption of the circle, so just what happened to him to make him so evil?

Apocrypha Roxy
12th Jul 2003, 01:17
He's always been a rotten lil' bastard.

Guess he didn't get hugged enough as a wee time-streamer.

Umah Bloodomen
12th Jul 2003, 01:18
Human nature. Seriously though, Moebius and Azimuth weren't all that right in the head even before they were corrupted, but the corruption certainly didn't make matters any better.

I would assume that Moebius figured out real quick after assuming his role of the Time-Streamer that he could play with the events of history to any advantage (including his own). You tell me if you think that power wouldn't go to one's head (especially someone who is supposed to stay in line like a good little git). Throw in a sweet deal from a *dark god* and you've got someone ready, willing and able to do whatever it takes to benefit him.

punkst4r
12th Jul 2003, 23:10
When and from who do you think that he got that staff? Obviously it wasn't given to him as a token for being a guardian because the makers of the pillars were vampires and I don't think they would like to disable their own race.Probably whoever/whatever he's working for gave it to him.

hm_rules
13th Jul 2003, 00:13
maybe mobeius is possessed by a hylden spirit which is making him do all these things. maybe he truly is good in heart.

Sade Lyrate
13th Jul 2003, 14:07
Originally posted by punkst4r
When and from who do you think that he got that staff? Obviously it wasn't given to him as a token for being a guardian because the makers of the pillars were vampires and I don't think they would like to disable their own race.Probably whoever/whatever he's working for gave it to him.

Personally, I've been intrigued by the fact that Moe's staff has quite a
lot in common with the pillar in the Air Forge in SR2. That pillar also has
a snake wrapped around it, the serpent's mouth open, just like in his staff.

And perhaps the staff was indeed given by the ancient vampires, the builders
of the Pillars, to the original Time Guardian. Perhaps it would have kept
him/her from twisting the timelines with his/her powers (the orig.
Time Guardian being most likely a vampire, too). Of course, that
feature might have been implemented later on, perhaps being a 'blessing'
of Moe's lord.

Yours, with deference

Apocrypha Roxy
13th Jul 2003, 16:05
Originally posted by Sade Lyrate
Personally, I've been intrigued by the fact that Moe's staff has quite a
lot in common with the pillar in the Air Forge in SR2. That pillar also has
a snake wrapped around it, the serpent's mouth open, just like in his staff.


You know, I never thought of that, before...

Interesting... :)

Matt from Spam Buddies
13th Jul 2003, 16:13
Heeey...

Sade Lyrate's theory is interesting... :)

Bad Moe!

-taps Moe on the head-

Don't pillage dead Pillar Guardians! :D

- Matthew

Sade Lyrate
13th Jul 2003, 17:11
...it's surprisingly satisfying to learn that my notions/ideas are
considered 'interesting', even by people who've been here on the
forums for a while already (Like you, Roxy)...;)

Something that just occurred to me...
Perhaps the orb on Moe's staff, rather than the staff itself, is the
source of the vampire-weakening-field(tm)? I mean, it flashes
when that 'field' is activated (or at least _I_ recall something like that)...
Take away the Orb, and compare the staff and that Air Forge-pillar:
see similarities?

Also, perhaps Moe 'inherited' the staff from the Time Guardian preceding
him. Or just found it laying about...;)

Btw, agreeing here with Umah: human nature may quite easily
stumble into foulness...imo, that is.

Yours, with deference

Apocrypha Roxy
13th Jul 2003, 17:36
Now why would you think Senior Members like myself would automatically disagree with you? Silly girl! :p

I always thought it was the orb that had the disabling property. The staff was just a way to carry it around. Think about it - kind of inconvenient to carry a crystal ball around all the time, right? At least the staff doubles as a walking stick for the old coot. :D

HERE'S AN IDEA!!! What if, in Defiance, Raz shatters Moebius' staff? He'd ruin any chance of Vorador being disabled when the presumably capture him for his execution. So he wouldn't die - thus the events of BO2. Riiight???

Oooh, we're smart...

-wrings hands eebily-

Matt from Spam Buddies
13th Jul 2003, 17:54
I saw a daydream once, about Raziel braking Moe's Orb.

Yes, I am weird.

- Matthew

PhoenixReaver
13th Jul 2003, 18:22
Originally posted by Apocrypha Roxy
HERE'S AN IDEA!!! What if, in Defiance, Raz shatters Moebius' staff? He'd ruin any chance of Vorador being disabled when the presumably capture him for his execution. So he wouldn't die - thus the events of BO2. Riiight???

Oooh, we're smart...

-wrings hands eebily-

I like it! Either that, or Raz and Kain prevent "young Kain" from killing William the Just.

.. or something.

someguysteve
13th Jul 2003, 18:27
i'd like to see Raziel waste Moebby with some reaver upgrade or new ability.

nice theory with with air forge, i noticed the sinilarity but never thought about a possible connection. maybe the orb was added to modify the staff's power

punkst4r
13th Jul 2003, 20:23
The air forge's pillar does look like the staff but to me it doesn't explain why the crystal would be made by the ancients.....the hylden/Elder God mabey but not the ancients.:confused:


And if the staff had anything to do with the air forge pillar I would atleast expect the pillar to disable the reaver not enhance it.

garbagefanuk
13th Jul 2003, 20:38
Originally posted by PhoenixReaver
I like it! Either that, or Raz and Kain prevent "young Kain" from killing William the Just.

.. or something.

Now that is a very interesting idea... If they did prevent it then Mobius wouldn't have a reason to get everyone into anti-vampire mode... The serafan would still exist instead of Mobius's mercenary army hence the alternate time in BO2 where the serafan are around... Although William would have conquered Nosgoth... but then again it is like 200 years after that so he might have lost what he conquered... Ack so many ideas.... not enough space in brain :eek: :confused:

Time Streamer
13th Jul 2003, 22:23
Well, something will definidently happen to the staff since Moebius doesn't use it to disable Kain near the end of BO1.

Angel of Music
14th Jul 2003, 01:20
Ol' Moebius is just another picture of capitalism in action, just like those damned seagulls in Finding Nemo, but to a much more sinister and extreme degree.

punkst4r
20th Jul 2003, 19:47
Why is it that Moebius never has the staff when he really needs it?

http://smilies.networkessence.net/s/cwm/3dlil/eek13.gif :confused:

Osyris
20th Jul 2003, 20:42
the only reason he is ever without the staff is to give Raziel a sense of power, he knows exactly what to do and how to play people. its all part of his beautifully crafted game. which kain mangled mercilessly at the end of SR2:D

punkst4r
20th Jul 2003, 20:48
I don't think that it was safe for Moebious not to carry the staff when raziel picked up the reaver because didn't it cause a paradox(a temporal distortion) and moebious never knows what could happen next after a paradox is created...and he always leaves his staff because he knows what will happen ahead of time he doesn't worry about it.

http://smilies.networkessence.net/images/confused.gif

Zephonim
20th Jul 2003, 20:48
its all part of his beautifully crafted game. which kain mangled mercilessly at the end of SR2
Kain what a kanker ,

but what about when moby says"by my soul ,you almost had me my little blue assasin but thats the only chance you get" he seems genuinely scared .........but he does seem in control when raz makes him use the chronoplast ,(that wicked grin said it all)http://www.gamers-forums.com/smilies/otn/violent/stormzap1.gif

Edit:thats a good answer for when moby didnt have the staff never thought about that damm my slow typing ,so thats the onlt time he took a risk then.

punkst4r
20th Jul 2003, 20:50
Just because he is cought off guard doesn't mean he cant' switch things around.

Osyris
20th Jul 2003, 21:00
Originally posted by Zephonim

when moby says"by my soul ,you almost had me my little blue assasin but thats the only chance you get" he seems genuinely scared

ah! forgot about that :)

Originally posted by punkst4r

I don't think that it was safe for Moebious not to carry the staff when raziel picked up the reaver because didn't it cause a paradox(a temporal distortion) and moebious never knows what could happen next after a paredox is created.

I think what you said here is right too, and it supports what Zephonim’s quote from SR2. but, still. he would never have risked himself if he didnt think he had a good chance of getting out of it unscathed.

Zephonim is right, that scene is the one time moby took a chance.

punkst4r
21st Jul 2003, 03:07
Moebious was probably there thinking that he knew what came next until the paradox was created which lead to him trying to convince raziel to spare him by mentioning 'the wheel of faith".

Zephonim
21st Jul 2003, 10:32
Yeah i remember hearing Moby say to Raz the thing about the wheel of fate/death rebirth etc and i remember shouting at Raz"Dont listen to him , cut his head off Kain style!
That would have caused some ruckus in Nosgoth if Raz killed moby at the start of sr2

someguysteve
21st Jul 2003, 17:09
i just played the first part of SR2 and after Raziel touched the second soul reaver, which nearly killed him, he suspects Moebius and he was going to kill him. with that i think the distortions indicated an event like Kain's edge of the coin, a pivital point when an event in history could be changed. i think under normal events Raziel would have killed Moebius there, but with him being the timeguadian he has knowledge of what he has to do to allow himself to live, so for eternity he was meant to die, but he always evaded it. He really was terrified when talking to Raziel at that moment, i think he know what could happen and was gambling with his life that eveything goes well for him.

Igraine
27th Jul 2003, 03:48
I don`t know if anyone else has brought this up but, I tend to agree with Umah that Moebius is playing both sides so to speak. Moebius is going to do whatever it takes to come out on the winning side. His allegience is only to himself.

I also thought that there was something interesting that happened in BO2. We see the statue of Moebius in the EP. Magnus says something that got me to thinking(sometimes a bad thing). He tells Kain that he was struck down, helpless at the feet of the SL. I only know of one thing in any of the games thus far that can render a vampire helpless. That staff that belongs to Moebius.

Does anyone else find this interesting or is it just me?

punkst4r
27th Jul 2003, 07:44
I also thought that there was something interesting that happened in BO2. We see the statue of Moebius in the EP. Magnus says something that got me to thinking(sometimes a bad thing). He tells Kain that he was struck down, helpless at the feet of the SL. I only know of one thing in any of the games thus far that can render a vampire helpless. That staff that belongs to Moebius.

Now that you mention it, it does seem interesting...but since I always thought that moebious worked for the hylden I thought that the hylden were the one's who gave him the orb so mabey they could have used the same sort of power or glyph magic.Mabey the orb sends out like a field of some sort of glyph magic that disables vampires.I think the staff is just to carry the orb around and it's also very convinient for the old geezer to use as support.

To me it makes scence that the hylden inflicted vampirisim on the ancients and at the same time a way of making them helpless by using vampirism to their advantege...I really don't think that the staff has anything to do with disabeling vampires like someone else menitoned how the staff is so similar to the pillar in the air forge but it was a very interesting theory. < this is just me thinking out loud so don't really take this seriously.:D ;) ;)