View Full Version : kain/raziel

9th Jul 2003, 02:45
ok this may be a stupid question, but what do you think the realationship between raziel and kain will be? Like a uneasy alliance?
A ever lasting grudge between the two.
or bitter rivalry?
Or just two individuals out doing their own plans?

The Amazing Rando
9th Jul 2003, 03:13
I think they'll both be working towards a common goal, whether Raz realizes it or not is another thing. Raz will prob be semi-distrustful of Kain, but will listen to him since his other choices are a giant squid and a time-streamer, both of which seem to have had their own goals for Raz in the past. Mostly tho, I think'll they'll be working mostly separately, with Kain a type of mentor to Raz at times.

9th Jul 2003, 10:15
It would be even more intriuging to learn that Raziel is Kains Great-Great-Great-Grandfather (is that enough "Greats" http://forums.eidosgames.com/images/icons/icon5.gif) I've been wondering if Kain and Raziels noble lineage has anything to do with the story. Something to think about...

Later! ;)

Matt from Spam Buddies
9th Jul 2003, 10:18
Many people think that a new grudge will spawn between Kain and Raziel since Raziel tries to resurrect Janos but Kain tries to prevent it at all costs.

This could prove true and the initiation of a new hatred between them.

Kain and Raziel grew allies in TLOKS-SR2 as we all saw. Perhaps they even learned to trust each other like they used to in the "old days".

But most likely this relationship will be destroyed, too, since Raziel doesn't trust anyone no more... Maybe only Janos...

I think that Kain and Raziel wont meet in the beginning of LOK-D, I'd guess Raziel wants to work as a lone wolf.

- Matthew

9th Jul 2003, 13:23
Fate, destiny, or whatever. If I were Raziel, I'd still be POed about having parts of my body ripped off because someone didn't like them and then thrown into an abyss of eternal pain resereved for "cowards and weaklings." I'd slap Kain around any chance I'd get!

9th Jul 2003, 13:31
You said it, so would I!

Apocrypha Roxy
9th Jul 2003, 17:50
I'm thinking the relationship between them will be a rickety bridge: unsteady, potentially crashing, but it needs to be crossed.


(I personally think Kain needs a little slap, but Raz needs to have some sense beat into him, also. WAKE UP!) :rolleyes: :p

Matt from Spam Buddies
9th Jul 2003, 18:16
Raziel listened to Kain in TLOKS-SR2. To be honest, he listened almost to everyone and acted accordingly.

I think that in LOK-D, Raziel will finally do what he and he alone wants to do.

So I'd guess Kain needs Raziel more than Raziel needs him... Kain's a mentor and one of his student's is not listening to him and running away... In addition, that student is a walking paradox machine.

Let's face it - Raziel's stupid :p and doesn't know what he's doing. Kain will do everything to stop him.

- Matthew

Apocrypha Roxy
9th Jul 2003, 19:10
Umah said it best: The Jawless Wonder is a TWIT.


Umah Bloodomen
9th Jul 2003, 20:31

I believe Amy has also made mention of Raz being a Twit, so I am even more confident in my opinion. :p

Apocrypha Roxy
9th Jul 2003, 20:40
You must tell me where she made mention of this - Lady Hennig knows all. And if she said Raziel is a twit, then he most certainly is one! :D

Matt: Maybe that's why they named it Defiance? :)

Of COURSE Raziel will act like a shmuck and do what he wants - he's sick of being manipulated! Can't blame him, but when good advice is hard to come by, and it's there, he's going to dismiss it as some sort of trick.

The little blue b*stard is screwed 6 ways to Sunday.


(He's more pathetic than Pecola Breedlove...) :rolleyes: :D

Matt from Spam Buddies
9th Jul 2003, 20:57
Yup-yup. Raziel's a twit, a major one.

Originally said by Amy Hennig
"Part of what we want to have come across is a change in his character, not necessarily his physical form but in his character, because he's kind of a self-righteous little twit, in a way, and he's got a lot of stuff to learn."

And here's some more.

"IGNPS2: You just said "self-righteous little twit." [laughs]

Amy: Don't you think so?

IGNPS2: Oh, yeah. But I'm not creating the game.

Amy: [Laughs] No, I mean, that was intentional. Usually you don't do that to your game characters, I guess, but I hope it came across. I mean, it's funny, everybody has different reactions depending on how hard they listen to the voiceover I guess, but Kain's a little bit more mature than Raziel is, and he's definitely an interesting character with an interesting history, and that's something that we want to continue exploring."

It can all be found by clicking just right here (http://pub6.ezboard.com/fnosgothfrm9.showMessage?topicID=122.topic).

So, there You go. :)

- Matthew

9th Jul 2003, 22:01
So what you guys are saying here is that Kain is trying to get rid of Janos and that Raz is a twit.......makes sense to me:p

Apocrypha Roxy
9th Jul 2003, 22:07
Actually, I don't think Kain is trying to 'get rid of' Janos, just prevent his ressurection so the events of Blood Omen 2 don't take place. Of course, Raziel never listens...

(Raziel's gonna ressurect him, and all Hell will break loose. Classic LoK Murphey's Law)

See? Perfect sense! :D

10th Jul 2003, 00:04
I guess Raz would be more of a Dunce! And Kain is more of a Anal Retintive kind of Person:D

10th Jul 2003, 00:37
Originally posted by Katen
I guess Raz would be more of a Dunce! And Kain is more of a Anal Retintive kind of Person:D

*holds comments*

10th Jul 2003, 00:50
or would Kain be more of a tyrant:cool:

Apocrypha Roxy
10th Jul 2003, 01:38
Nah, Kain's not anal-retentive... anal-retentive is when you're room is clean and your mother has a conniption fit that there's a solitary sock under the bed.:rolleyes:

Kain's just psychotic. Yet sane. A delicate balance. :p
Raziel, now Raziel, I can see as anal-retentive. :D.

Let's just put it this way: we're dealing with a pair of nutcases, loony in their own respective ways.

I guess family therapy never worked out for them, eh?

10th Jul 2003, 03:20
I would classify Kain as Antisocial with a touch of narcisstic personality disorder. I would say that Raziel is suffering from Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome.

10th Jul 2003, 13:04
I would classify Kain as a vampire/demi-god that thinks to much of himself but he holds alot of knowledge and he has all the wisdom to back it up too.
Kain is arrogant, wise, powerfull

Raziel is just a lost puppet who just cut himself free of the strings, but without it he wont have any help to stand up.
Kinda like a child who is discovering nothing is like it seems.
Raziel is immortal,powerfull but knows nothing yet.

Edit: Remember Kain was a noble and we all know that nobles were raised to think that they are better than the rest.

10th Jul 2003, 14:53
Kain just does what he want or what needs to be done regardless of any moral hangups. Raziel is the moral centre of the story and as such he's batted about like a tennis ball. i think kain will try and kill Janos. he wants him to stay dead for good reason, and Raziel (not seeing the whole picture) is not going to be a happy puppy.

i expect fireworks between our fine protagonists. i hope there will be anyway!:D

Apocrypha Roxy
10th Jul 2003, 15:37
The fur will fly, I can guarantee that much...

C'mon, what's LoK without a passionate argument that Raziel eventually looses? :p

15th Jul 2003, 01:40
RoXY-The fur will fly, I can guarantee that much...

C'mon, what's LoK without a passionate argument that Raziel eventually looses?

Its Blood Omen;)

Apocrypha Roxy
15th Jul 2003, 01:45
But Raz WAS in Blood Omen...

As the sword...


Dark God Francisco
15th Jul 2003, 01:51
The grudge part is still there since Raz still remembers what Kain did to him. But now it doesn't seem as bad as it was in SR1 Raziel learned a lot in SR 2 and matured greatly and it seems that Kain is trying to help him find his rightful destiny not what the dark forces want of him perhaps its cause Kain understands what its like to be used and abused by unseen forces and also cause he himself wants to find his own rightful destiny.

As for Raziel yeah it is confirmed his is gonna be more sinister but can you blame him. After what he passed through in SR2 only to find out he can't avert his destiny I believe any one would be pissed off.

16th Jul 2003, 05:16
If kains agenda benefits raziel then I think he won't see him as such traitor.Raziel will just slap kain and tell him not to ever throw him into the abyss again because he didn't appreciate it.