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Icarus
2nd Jul 2003, 01:14
What gender will you make Alex, and why?

Icarus
2nd Jul 2003, 01:18
Sorry, I'm thiking of Alex as being female so as to be different from the first game.

Big Ragu
2nd Jul 2003, 02:12
I gotta go with male *NOT TO BE SEXIEST* but I think being a female would change the entire mood of the game, perhaps if I played as a stealthy hacker I would be a female. But I have to go with male.

TheDerf
2nd Jul 2003, 03:46
Originally posted by Big Ragu
I gotta go with male *NOT TO BE SEXIEST* :rolleyes: :) I wish there was a laughing hysterically smiley for that sentence.

I'm going to make Alex a man, but listen to my logic. If I make Alex a woman, she would have to be hot. Game designers aren't going to put an ugly chick in as a main character (i.e. Tomb Raider, Blood Rayne, Resident Evils). The problem with the chick being hot is that I'm staring at her the whole game and not concentrating on anything else. So, I'll make Alex a guy just to save myself a few careless deaths and such.

operative x
2nd Jul 2003, 04:02
i would have to go with male all the way because when i play a game i wanna be some badass guy like snake,or duke nukem. Not some pretty girl, but hey, thats just me. But i like the idea that ion storm thought about makeing everyone happy, smart move on there part.

WSimons
2nd Jul 2003, 05:20
I would have to say male just because that's how I always have and will think of Alex. I just think female would seem weird.

Le`Sauveur`De`Ces`Dames
2nd Jul 2003, 07:37
I think I will choose a female Alex, cause I can be a man every day, so I tend to choose female characters whenever I can (what a cheesy reason, oh my god)

WSimons
2nd Jul 2003, 07:40
Well now that you mention it, I haven't played too many games where the main character is a female.

DarkForge
2nd Jul 2003, 11:37
Assuming that DX2 will have a lot of replay value (like the first game): I think I'd play as a male on most occasions, purely because I'm a guy and that's what I'm used to.

I'm not sexist though. I dare say that I would play as a female some times, as it would be an interesting difference from more or less all other FPS-style games. I'd be intrigued to see if the change in gender can make a sufficient contribution to the experience of the game.

Catman
2nd Jul 2003, 13:15
I'll go with both.

Lawnboy360
2nd Jul 2003, 13:31
I'll go with both.

Is the obvious joke intended?

swimp
2nd Jul 2003, 16:27
Originally posted by operative x
i would have to go with male all the way because when i play a game i wanna be some badass guy like snake,or duke nukem. Not some pretty girl, but hey, thats just me. But i like the idea that ion storm thought about makeing everyone happy, smart move on there part.

I don't think it's a smart move. A game is (at least for me) supposed to tell a story and if you can decide the gender of the main character I think that kind of ruins it a bit... just my ten cents.

Cerpin Taxt
2nd Jul 2003, 16:54
I too will go with both - one at a time tho, I'm not the man ... Catman ... is. Probably male through first time, and if the story rocks as hard as DX1, then I'll go thru female as I do the script. :) Speaking of which I need to finish the DX1 script... tonight!

Bio Denton
4th Jul 2003, 00:12
Err, Alex is JC Dentons brother, in the tube under Area 51. So he's male.

Not to point out the fact that he is on the main page of the site?

Bio

"The I Hate Hamsters & Wooha Rules Conspiracy"

JeffDenton
4th Jul 2003, 00:52
Most certainly male. Well, first of all, I am male myself. And of course, I agree with Bio Denton on the fact that it did say male; I just went through the game again and noticed that, so it would just be right to continue with the flow of the game. Plus, I think it would be sort of weird to play as a woman; at least if you were to try to play the way most people do; shoot and kill- not to be sexist or anything, but a man just seems a bit more suited to that type of gameplay, although both seem suited to a stealthy approach. I definitely would play as a female if I were to take the game on differently.

Ductonius
6th Jul 2003, 04:37
First I will play as a male Alex to get the plot and action.

Then I will play as a female Alex to stare at her ass.



Originally posted by TheDerf
:rolleyes: :) I wish there was a laughing hysterically smiley for that sentence.


http://burns.thefinaldimension.org/otn/laughing/yelrotflmao.gif

Uncle Ben's Rocket
6th Jul 2003, 05:31
Male.
For none reason other than because men shoot better than women. I know that was a very sexiest statement but who the hell cares.
And how the hell would anyone be able so stare at alex's ass. ITS FIRST PERSON SHOOTER (rpg), NOT Lara Croft thrid person chase view. The closest thing to what you all must be thinking about might be hooking up with another leatherclad NPC (as a female) and imagining a lesbian love affair. Correct me if im wrong or share your own ideas but thats not the spirit of the game. Shooting bums is fun might i add......(hobos, not canadian ass).

Ductonius
6th Jul 2003, 05:42
Originally posted by Uncle Ben's Rocket

And how the hell would anyone be able so stare at alex's ass.



Hellloooooooo Mr.Takes-jokes-too-serioulsy.

Anyway, if you actually did want to stare at the ass of any player, since its an incarnation of the unreal engine, the consol command "behindview0" (no quotes, of cource) will probably make the camera follow the player instead of from the first person prespective. Just remember to use "behindview1" to put it back in FPS mode.

This, of cource, is neglecting to mention all the various cutscenes, mirrors, views from robots etc, etc, etc. which could be used to view the attributes of the female Alex.

Big Ragu
6th Jul 2003, 06:03
Originally posted by Uncle Ben's Rocket
Male.
And how the hell would anyone be able so stare at alex's ass. ITS FIRST PERSON SHOOTER (rpg), NOT Lara Croft thrid person chase view. .

Has anyone played Tresspasser?

Leo
6th Jul 2003, 07:47
remember Agent Navarre?

maybe this model will be awailable ...
I doubt that there will be big difference between male and female, except the sound.

DarkForge
6th Jul 2003, 10:01
Originally posted by Ductonius
Anyway, if you actually did want to stare at the ass of any player, since its an incarnation of the unreal engine, the consol command "behindview0" (no quotes, of cource) will probably make the camera follow the player instead of from the first person prespective. Just remember to use "behindview1" to put it back in FPS mode.

Actually, that's the wrong way round. It's behindview 1 to switch to 3rd-person, and behindview 0 to go back to 1st-person. I believe there would be a space before the number as well.

You're right though: if you get that desparate - it's a valid option! ;)

swimp
6th Jul 2003, 11:34
Originally posted by DarkForge

You're right though: if you get that desparate - it's a valid option! ;)

Let's hope that DX:IW's story plot spares us all from becoming that desparate :D

crimson_stallion
9th Jul 2003, 02:25
I'd llike to see attributes for each, to give it more of an rpg flavour. Maybe the female would be stealthier, quicker, quieter, etc, while the guy could be stronger and thus better at handling large weapons (GEP guns, etc). Maybe the woman would by default run a tiny bit faster, be easier to hide in shadows, etc. This would make both genders different enough to be interesting and increase replayability as alot of gamers ould want to play through the game with both characters. Maybe the male character woudl be able to be more agressive in nature and get information out of some people that way, while the girl could be able to get out information from toher characters via seducing.

This would however have its advantages and disadvantages. Some gamers would like the uniqueness, while others may want to play a veyr stealthy male character or a very strong powerful woman character but will not have the same ability. In this way it would reduce the freedom of the user. As a result, maybe if such an idea was impremented, it woudl be best to make the differences small between them, but enough to make them different. i.e., woman can be a killing maching, guy can be a stealthy dude, but not quite AS effieciently. Or.. maybe its best left equal. What do you guys(and gals) think?

Back to the question, i was so engrossed in the first game and was so involved with JC, that i'd probably have to go with the male character. To me (not meanign to sound sexist) a female character doesnt generally really suit the whole super agent killing machine role. I would feel unrealistic having a girl carrying around 300 pounds of weapons and firing rockets and lifting massvie crates. I liked the female ninja characters in half life, and the male grunts, and this kinda influenced my idea about the stealthy female alex and strong male alex.

REgardless of whetehr the characters are made the same or not, i woulddefinately like to see changes in teh game depending on which u control. Whetehr it be changes in storylines slightly, changes in mission approaches, changes in missions themselves, or something of the like. I think having the game identical for both characters would jsut reduce replayability heavily. When you restart the game with the different character and realise byt eh 2nd level that nothing has channged you will probably loose interest i think. A bit think in DE was replayability. I've played through it about 4 times, and every time found something new. I jsut hope DE:IW has a similar feature.

Prohass
9th Jul 2003, 03:35
Im going to be male simply for roleplaying purposes. When I interact with people, I want to immerse myself, and being a guy, I would be much more immersed if NPCs reffered to me as male.

talley
13th Jul 2003, 08:49
once a man, always a man.

i can't imagine myself playing a female with kickass powers to boot and squish the badass like they were ants. that roles befits a guy better! don't get me wrong. imo, toasting 'em ants with guns blazing just doesn't suit the female physique and instincts! :D :D :D

if eidos wants alex to be a female, then she gotta be stealthy, sleek and silent, kinda like trinity!

alex gotta be a man at all costs! :cool: :cool: :cool:

Iluminatus
14th Jul 2003, 04:06
Originally posted by Prohass
Im going to be male simply for roleplaying purposes. When I interact with people, I want to immerse myself, and being a guy, I would be much more immersed if NPCs reffered to me as male.
the same, it whouldn't be the same if everyone started to treat me as female, it whould spoil my sense of actual being the agent and make me feel as the pupater.

PS: I'm ready to kill everyone here for some of the stereotipical post i just heard:female must be sleak, females don't shoot gud. I swear , if a multyplayer add-on does come out i will chose a female avatar get a BFG and kill some wakos just to eliminate the stress of this moment.

Montial
14th Jul 2003, 10:06
Male first definately, mainly because Alex was male in the nanotank-thing at Area 51.

crimson_stallion
15th Jul 2003, 01:55
Originally posted by Iluminatus
the same, it whouldn't be the same if everyone started to treat me as female, it whould spoil my sense of actual being the agent and make me feel as the pupater.

PS: I'm ready to kill everyone here for some of the stereotipical post i just heard:female must be sleak, females don't shoot gud. I swear , if a multyplayer add-on does come out i will chose a female avatar get a BFG and kill some wakos just to eliminate the stress of this moment.

Well my posts for starters were not stereotypical or sexist in any way IMO. It is a FACT that women are generally not as big or strong as men, not a stereotypical sexist comment, and based on that FACT i would not feel realistic controlling a woman and firing Gep guns (especially since in deus ex he had enough trouble firing it to begin with - until the skills were upgraded). Of course a woman can also be an assassin or a killing maching, but I just think that men have the advantage of strength and suze over women, while women have the advantage of flexibility and better communication skills in general, so I was saying that i think it would be good to see the characters based on the strengths/weaknesses of each gender.

Because women are more flexible, and DO have smaller physiques, then tend to be better at stealthy tasks, because they can make less noise, and take up less space, thus can hide it places that a big 90+kg (like me) guy can. Guys are generally stronger and bigger. A average height slim girl is probably around 5"7 and about 55-60 kg, while a slim average height guy is probably around 5"10, 70kg. The guy would probably be stronger then the girl (even though they are both aveage height and slim).

This is why I figured it would be nice to have these traits effect character development. Men can be stealthy, but women are more natural at it, so they could be given skill bonuses in those areas. Similarily, girls CAN build up, get massive, and fire rocket launchers, accurately fire weapons, etc, but guys are probably more natural at it because they are stronger, thus probably can control recoil better etc. Thus they could be given skill bonuses in that area. So both character can do both tasks, just that it takes longer for them to get trained in that area if they dont have a gender bonus there.

It was just a thought. And belive me, I am probably one of the LEAST sexist males you will find, so don't take it there. :eek:

Iluminatus
16th Jul 2003, 01:11
Originally posted by crimson_stallion
~snip~
This is a bio-enginered women, it doesn't comform with the normal laws of evolution, the fact that women have been kept out of jobs requiring strenght for thousands of years and that this has affected the female physique means nothing now. This bio-enginered women like her male counterpart has been made for maximum flexibility and strenght so there is no real diference, that's unless you whant to play a bio-enginered supermodel and do the same mistake the producers of Terminator 3 did.

edit: Oh and on your diference idea, that whould creare a major problem, i played DX as a silent spy, never actualy wasting ammo unless i knew i had to, always packing up on multy-tools, lock-picks and medkits more than guns but i chose here to be male for story reasons, does that mean i have to feel uncomfortable every time i talk to an NPC just because someone out there whanted to have an advantage with their male character and does that mean that i will be forced to resort to force just because someone out there wanted some extra stats , it will be a disaster for a game like deus ex with multiple choices each with their price and with their pay-offs ,both well balanced, to have gender stats which means that for story purposes you must abandon your style

crimson_stallion
16th Jul 2003, 03:42
Thats why i intended it merely as a suggestion, to see what people thought. ;)

If the two characters are made the same that wouldnt bother me, I just felt that having some difference between them (other then just a different voice and charater model) would make for improved replayability, and would possibly make for an interesting twist, thats all.

There may be players who want to try one gender, and have no interest in trying the other. Making enough difference between the two might make such people think "hmm.. maybe ill ltry the other one to see what direction the game takes".

I know I would play through the game with both characters, but would probably feel abit dissapointed if my choice didnt really affect anything.

On the other hand, according to the gamespot previews, it seems the player will be able to choose up to four different 'gangs' (if that's what you want to call them) to side with. If this is the case, then this should create great levels replayability.

I think the thing I loved possibly more then anything, is the amount of replayability deus ex had. I played through the game about 3 or 4 times, and each time I found something new that i'd never picked up before. I'm abit paranoid that the sequel wont have this 'ability'. Lets hope it does :D

Iluminatus
16th Jul 2003, 23:41
Ok, i agree with you, i'm also afraid that DX 2 will do the same mistake movie sequals do, using the same formula as the original and not giving anything new, (one good example is blair witch, the original was great, it was different, but the sequal was the same as most other horror movies and the ending was such a disapointment) but i don't think that difference betwen genders will help, it will be more like and impediment because we have the same story with the same nr of enemys but one gender will have a hard time exploiting stealth in mission where he finds himself outguned and with little ammo and the other will have problems dealing with mecs and large numbers, can you imagine yourself going through another game of DX without resorting to the GEP Gun atleast once.
If you plan to make a difference betwen characters you must do what Duality is trying to do, if it still exists, and instead of male/female put mercenary/hacker and make very different story lines for both of them, of course i disaprove of the fact that it uses the same stereotypes as many here have posted but atleast here the ruoles of gender evolution is more credible than in a game where a bio-enginered character made for performence. One question: Are the men in black and the women in black diferent? in my experience no, so point made.

Le`Sauveur`De`Ces`Dames
17th Jul 2003, 07:24
hmmm

I think I read somewhere that the dialogs wouldn't be the same for a male or a female Alex (that would be logical)

that might help for replayability

and once again, before being afraid DX:IW will be bad, I'm going to trust the developers, and wait for the release to make my opinion

Centauro
22nd Aug 2003, 03:31
I'll just get the Hermaphrodite Aug in the black market, so I can be both.:D

Seriously, I guess I'll be the girl first time I play start to end, for it could be refreshing and funny, I think, specially when interacting with rude male NPCs. After finishing, then I'll choose the male, which should have less surprises for old DXrs.

sajcd
22nd Aug 2003, 05:32
I've read where there may be four to six endings. I think your choice of gender will (to some degree) determine which ending you see because it will affect the way the whole game plays. In my opinion, Spector would not provide you with a meaningless choice especially one as significant as gender. I think the game play will be the same as far as stealth and fighting, however, the differences will manifest in the way NPCs react to Alex. For example, a child NPC may find a female Alex more approachable. The interaction between the NPC child and female-Alex may lead to the resolution of an objective that may not be possible with a male Alex. In one of the German demo trailers on the web there seems to be a domestic disturbance between male and female NPCs. One may think that if female-Alex encountered this situation the NPCs would react differently then for a male Alex. If this is the case, it would add substantially to the replay value of the game.

I will play through the game as female and male-Alex. I will also play the "good" role and the "bad" role. It's conceivable that this would access four endings! Excellent!

Trevion
22nd Aug 2003, 07:23
Female the first time through, mainly to make it different from the first game.

Re: Females dunt shoot gud cuz they r weak: First, has anyone seen the screen shots from DX:IW? The weapons all look fairly small, so even if you did subscribe to the aforementioned belief, it shouldn't have any difference whatsoever. Second, there's nothing preventing females from going through any training they want to. Why does everyone seems so convinced that because an average man might be stronger than an average woman a highly trained agent couldn't be as strong as she needed to be.

It doesn't bother me that it's sexist, more that it doesn't seem to be thought through.

Jovena
22nd Aug 2003, 08:18
Well I played a male in the first game as I had no other choice...Being a female it would be nice to have the option, but as its mostly guys that play these types of game I can see why they don't really cater to woman that much! I am hopeing in time this will change ...I think most woman would enjoy these games if they would give it a chance.

ginger_grunger
22nd Aug 2003, 11:32
i think that perhaps there should be slight differences in NPC responses...i mean, sometimes, a guy will respond better to a female, or vice versa....

And, i really like the idea of perhaps a slightly different mission and level structure, or different ways to do things as male and female seperately...however, i also dont want to lose the whole 'go anywhere, use your imaginationa nd eplore' ethic, tht for me was one of the key replayability points in DX1.

also, different options at the end of the game for male and female characters would be cool...(for instance, a man might not be allowed to be a member of soem ass-kickin feminist cult)

but no matter what happens, gender shouldnt really be an issue, at the end of the day its a game, its a distraction from reality...and above all, it should be just plain fun...

Lawnboy360
22nd Aug 2003, 14:08
its a game, its a distraction from reality

I hate that line!

*Currently* most games are distractions from reality, but that doesn't mean there can't or shouldn't be *games* (or whatever you would call an interactive virtual world that isn't only about entertainment, because the word "game" doesn't sound "serious" itself) "featuring" some "serious" topics, exactly like movies do, even if some movies are only about entertainment.

Well, that's only my opinion :)

AlteredGlyph
22nd Aug 2003, 20:47
Well, considering that i always roleplay as female, I think I will do the same here. A guy may be on average better at firing a gun, and a woman on average be better at sneaking, but... Alex isn't average. At all.

nasher842002
22nd Aug 2003, 21:05
male because im male and i like to base the character around myself,[how sad i know but it adds exitement] well i play [gsm]AGENTNASH on dx multiplayer so hi if u know me.
The names Nash, Agent Nash

operative x
22nd Aug 2003, 21:51
AltereGlyph, why do you always "roleplay" as a female?! lol

AlteredGlyph
23rd Aug 2003, 17:18
Originally posted by operative x
AltereGlyph, why do you always "roleplay" as a female?! lol

Actually, I don't know. I think it has something to do with girls being more naturally sneaky, as I love playing as a sneaky type person.

sneelock
23rd Aug 2003, 17:41
I will Play as a Female just because i always do. especially in Arena games like ut and quake. in high school we had 30 machines running ut at a time. and if you were female, it threw people off cause they were all males. so i dont think of females as being stealthier.

as for major female characters checkout juni in freelancer

-Bob Page-
24th Aug 2003, 09:05
ion storm seem to be unable to make a choice of gender... cos on site main page pic is male, and in trailer alex is female... hmmm, or they're just showing that can be male or female... anyway... i think ile be female first then play as male.

PDenton
24th Aug 2003, 12:42
I think that I'd play as female. I mean how many games are there where you can play as a woman. :D It really shouldn't matter what gender you are. However if the designers are sexist then I think I'll still be female because htey are stelathier and don't always go in gund blazing.

severijn
25th Aug 2003, 08:07
I can't decide if I'm going to be a male or a female... They both fit to my style. In dx1 I was an excellent hacker armed with a highly upgraded doomsday pistol sneaking through the shadows and strike in a split second, always having a one shot kill. When I failed I used my dragontooth sword + regeneration and demolish them as a demigod.

Maybe I will pick male again, because in reallife, I'm a sneaky type too. But then again...


I'll just flip a coin and replay the game to test the other side.

Deus (Seraph)
25th Aug 2003, 13:15
I'll play male, that's for sure. That is because I am one, and I like it to dive into a game world so nothing of me stays in reality. But I really appreciate that there is a choice, first because it adds to re-playability and second because it gives women the same choice of identifying with the main character.

Le`Sauveur`De`Ces`Dames
25th Aug 2003, 13:39
I've always thought JC let too much of his feminine side out to be immersive enough for male players, don't you? he is way too sensitive (or is it sensible? never could remember)

so this time I play a girl, at least it will be less confusing.

crimson_stallion
28th Aug 2003, 11:02
Originally posted by Trevion
Female the first time through, mainly to make it different from the first game.

Re: Females dunt shoot gud cuz they r weak: First, has anyone seen the screen shots from DX:IW? The weapons all look fairly small, so even if you did subscribe to the aforementioned belief, it shouldn't have any difference whatsoever. Second, there's nothing preventing females from going through any training they want to. Why does everyone seems so convinced that because an average man might be stronger than an average woman a highly trained agent couldn't be as strong as she needed to be.

It doesn't bother me that it's sexist, more that it doesn't seem to be thought through.

You dont need to br strong to fire a weapon because they are big or heavy, you do to handle recoil properly. Either way though a nao girl woudl probably have little trouble with such issues i suppose.

agent008
28th Aug 2003, 18:40
well to me there better be a difference between the mail and femail character well i highly think the following are the differences between them:

they both sound different in voice:rolleyes:
they both start in different areas when you start the game
the hud style and color is different

well thats all i got on my mind now:rolleyes:


o did any of you see the screenshot of the guy holding or putting aways the police stick nice:D do i hear talking the lw into your own hands? i would hate if you have to be an erran boy or girl like the first game

BMKane
28th Aug 2003, 21:54
I'll probably play Female the first time I play (Because you almost never see a female player character), and male the second time.

And, it is true that females are usually smarter, faster, more stealthy, and more agile than men, and men are stronger, but you gotta remember that these people are nano-augs. A nano-aug two-year-old could beat you to death with a pickup truck.

JC-Scourge
28th Aug 2003, 23:06
that is a good point. they are nano-aug people and therefore not at all like us, male or female. if it wasnt for that a female character would be a joke. i will someday play as female but not the first time around. and i just want to say this: they are going to make this game perfect so anything that we think might be bad about it really wont be, you see how they completely blew everyone away with DX 1.

Skul-Gun
28th Aug 2003, 23:38
I voted femal before reading anyone's posts. This was because it's always a refreshing change to play as a protoganist who isn't the usual gruff-voiced, dark haired, all-black wearing tough-looking male that we see in many games and films (Neo, Blade, JC, Sam Fisher, Snake etc.) Don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with that type of character, just that it tends to get overused and a change is nice once in a while.

But after reading everyone's posts, it made me remember all the times i have played a female character. Namely Tomb Raider and Bloodrayne. Both of those games weren't as much me 'being' the protoganist as they were me simply 'controlling' the protoganist. I realised my mistake after replaying morrowind as a female for replayability purposes. I found npcs calling me "maam" and "ms 'chosen-name'" and I'd be like "WHO? Oh right, I'm a female aren't I."

My point is similar to that which most males have made in that it is much easier for a male to roleplay as a male because it is easier to relate when it comes to npc interaction. I had no problem with tomb raider and Bloodrayne because there was no npc interaction besides cut scenes where the npc was referring to the character herself, rather than looking you in the eye and talking to you directly like is DX, morrowind, or other RPGS.

So if the game lacked much npc interaction (highly unlikely) it would be a lot easier for me to play as a female character than if the game had lots (which seems to be the general prediction).

Deus (Seraph)
29th Aug 2003, 11:23
Originally posted by Skul-Gun
...because it's always a refreshing change to play as a protoganist who isn't the usual gruff-voiced, dark haired, all-black wearing tough-looking male that we see in many games and films (Neo, Blade, JC, Sam Fisher, Snake etc.) Don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with that type of character, just that it tends to get overused and a change is nice once in a while.


Well I agree with you that this Type of Hero is overused and gets a bit too, well "normal" - but I have to correct you in one single little detail: JC was NOT wearing black - He is standing out of the crowd - and proofing that it doesn't need black to have a tough look! :D

Skul-Gun
29th Aug 2003, 11:38
FINE! dark blue. He wasn't really gruff-voiced either. HA!

Le`Sauveur`De`Ces`Dames
29th Aug 2003, 15:23
I would like a pink coat and fancy glasses for my male Alex (like the one in T3), when I replay it. do you think characters will be THAT customisable?

TehFreak
29th Aug 2003, 16:04
i'm not playing as a girl on the basis that i know a guy called alex, and it would be way to weird to play as a girl with his name. not the kind of thing i want slipping into my dreams..

BMKane
29th Aug 2003, 17:40
if it wasnt for that a female character would be a joke.

*raises eyebrow*

Oh, and, even if they weren't nano-augs, it wouldn't matter much. Women are better marksmen than men are (again, on average), anyway.

And there are some games where male/female character choices actually make a difference. A lot of times it's just aesthetics (Women would prefer to play a female character) but in some, like in Baldur's Gate and Neverwinter Nights, a female character can affect the game (In terms of side missions and gaining other characters' trust).

Icarus
29th Aug 2003, 22:29
Originally posted by crimson_stallion
You dont need to br strong to fire a weapon because they are big or heavy, you do to handle recoil properly. Either way though a nao girl woudl probably have little trouble with such issues i suppose.

I agree, Alex is no ordinary human being she (or he) is nano augmented, and since the technology is greater, they are more advanced than Paul, Simons, or (dare I say it) JC. Then again Simons was also more advanved than JC, and based on what I've already read in these forums, JC shot, stabbed, immolated, disemboweled, and dimembered him in just about every way possible. Anyway, just cause you may look better than the other guy on paper doesn't mean you're not immortal compared to him.


Oh yeah, I forgot *belches poison gas* I hate being a burrick. ;)

Edit:Hrrm in the time it took me to type this 20 more posts were added.

Icarus
29th Aug 2003, 22:47
Originally posted by Le`Sauveur`De`Ces`Dames
I would like a pink coat and fancy glasses for my male Alex (like the one in T3), when I replay it. do you think characters will be THAT customisable?

OOO OOO and I'd download SpongeBob's voice and use it on Alex.

Mission Giver: Alex, there are snipers on the roof!
Alex: I'M READY!!! I'm ready, I'm ready, I'm ready...

;) *Followed by a straight-jacket happy face.*

Skul-Gun
30th Aug 2003, 00:02
in Metal Gear Solid, Sniper Wolf claims that two thirds of the world's greatest assasins are female. Dunno if that's a correct statistic seeing as it's from a game, but it adds another argument for the reasons to choose a female alex.

It makes sense too, seeing as males are a LOT more distracted by the opposite sex than females....unless they're, y'know, fruity.

mark265
30th Aug 2003, 09:08
this is alittle offtopic...but was just curious..who's the bloke in the main deusex.com page? is that the male alex? what happened to the glasses he had in earlier pics ? :confused: will he be like that in the game or what ?

BMKane
30th Aug 2003, 17:31
My guess is he's Male Alex(tm)(c)(r)(patent pending). Glasses Alex is probably a choice at the beginning of the game, sorta like how you could choose different faces at the beginning of DX1. Personally, I wanna see Pimp Hat Alex... though the massive plumed feather sticking out of the side might hamper my ability to be stealthy.

Skul-Gun
30th Aug 2003, 18:32
*begins preparing to make the dx:iw pimp mod*

crimson_stallion
31st Aug 2003, 10:43
Looks like we will have quite a bit of customisation availiable.

This quote is taken from Uk's 'Computer and Video Games' magazine.

"Set 15 years after the original Deus Ex, Invisible War delivers a dark, dystopian world in which nano-technology is widespread, and a catastrophic worldwide economic crash has left various socio-political factions fighting for power. You play as Alex D, a next-generation clone of JC Denton, and have the choice of being male or female. Apart from having repercussions on how the game plays, this has also meant a massive amount of work for Ion Storm to implement thousands of voice lines for each gender - as well as options for skin tone, hair and clothing."

This was taken from this page:
http://www.computerandvideogames.com/r/?page=http://www.computerandvideogames.com/previews/previews_story.php(que)id=95157 (http://)

Appears that we will indeed be able to basicaly create an Alex that suits us best. This should also hopefully allow for great abilities in terms of later modding (character clothing models, etc).

Sounds good to me :)

Skul-Gun
31st Aug 2003, 12:13
will there be different voices intra-gender? or will there simply be a voice for male and a voice for female? I ask because of the option to change skin tone. In the first game, i played though one of the runs as a black guy, the voice didn't suit him at all.

So if this is implemented it would be nice.

mark265
31st Aug 2003, 14:57
Originally posted by Skul-Gun
will there be different voices intra-gender? or will there simply be a voice for male and a voice for female? I ask because of the option to change skin tone. In the first game, i played though one of the runs as a black guy, the voice didn't suit him at all.

So if this is implemented it would be nice.

yes...but do you realise How long and How much effort it will take them to do this? be happy that they could include a female with all her voice lines !

Skul-Gun
31st Aug 2003, 16:38
trust me. they've had enough time

Picasso
31st Aug 2003, 18:26
I think we'd have heard about it if they were doing that.

Trevion
31st Aug 2003, 18:38
Originally posted by crimson_stallion
You dont need to be strong to fire a weapon because they are big or heavy, you do to handle recoil properly. Either way though a nao girl woudl probably have little trouble with such issues i suppose.

You make a good point, but I still don't think it comes down to augmentation. There are girls on the crew teams at my college who are significantly stronger than 90% (maybe 95%) of the guys -- and, in fact, stronger than most of the ROTC etc. guys. I suspect that there wouldn't be anything with a strong enough recoil that, given trained individuals, the innate differences between male and female physical development would make a huge difference.

-Bob Page-
31st Aug 2003, 23:45
ion storm are naughty, on character selection for the first game you cannot be a black guy. you choose it but when the game starts you just have a darkish tan, i am disappointed in you ion storm for this :(

edit: and i wanted to play a black guy cos i completed as white guy, tanned guy, ginger guy (w00t w00t gordon freeman), and now i try to do a black guy but the game not let me :mad:

crimson_stallion
1st Sep 2003, 09:40
Originally posted by Skul-Gun
trust me. they've had enough time
dunno about that. Apparently there are thousands of lines of dialogue, which would take long enough to do with two voices. If they had like 3 different voices for each gender, thats like 3 times the amount of (already plentiful) voice recording they would have to do. Not to mention that it would be another 4 people theyd have to hire for voice acting. Then youd probably have people making up stupid arguments like "why does a black guy have a different voice to a white guy, i like the white guys voice, this is discrimination" ( or vice versa) or some crap like that. It's almose inevitable. Would be nice, but i think itd be acomplicated thing to implement. Not so much complicated, but time consuming.

Id rather they make one good voice for each character, and put the rest of their spare time into fine tuing the gameplay.

The_Guided
2nd Sep 2003, 15:41
it would have to be a man as, what bio man said, he is a male in the pod thingy with a sell by date of such a such a time, Unless they sort of do a tranny op on him before he is born then there would be no way he was female. Plus years of american films has burned into my mind that males were always better at killing people more brutally and efficiently than women (except for the terminator rise of the machine which, by the way, is an awsome film)

Amazon Warrior
31st Oct 2003, 03:57
I think I'll play as both, but I'm not sure which one I'd choose first. As has been pointed out, there aren't many female charaters for FPS/RPGs of this type. This means that devs in general have had much more practice with male charaters, and in by and large I've found the few female characters I've played to be annoying beyond belief. So I might choose male, cos its what I'm used to playing as, and it can be really comedy to be the 'wrong' sex in conversations. Some of the comments in DX had me splitting my sides! But it depends on what I feel like when I finally have the game in my hands, and what vibes I get from the characters.

You dont need to be strong to fire a weapon because they are big or heavy, you do to handle recoil properly. Either way though a nao girl woudl probably have little trouble with such issues i suppose.
*raises eyebrows, looks thoughtful* I used to be in the combined cadet force at school, and shoot .22 rifles, so I've fired a few different weapons, with both blanks and live ammunition, and with a fair degree of accuracy, too. The recoil is just something you adapt to. Firing an LSW on the ranges was a funky experience, but the recoil is a bit extreme if you're not expecting it! :cool: I'm somewhat over the 'average' height for a woman at almost 6' tall, however. It can be really crap to be too tall, too. :( Good for shooting stuff, bad for scaring people... :rolleyes:

Has to be said tho, running around dark woods on a wet night on exercise, hoping to get the drop on the enemy, was one of the most exciting things I've done. Escape and evasion means so much more when it's YOUR arse on the line, and everyone's packing! ;)

Tenkahubu
31st Oct 2003, 12:46
The name 'amazon warrior' is no joke then!

The_Guided
31st Oct 2003, 14:57
Jesus its been along time since i went on this forum. Any way i used to go shooting wit me dad some time ago when i was about 13, 14 year old and i used an air rifle with a slightly illegal overpowered spring powering it. Now that gave a kick when firing it but it was accurate as a result of its power as long as you could handle the recoil (i used to be able to shoot bottles a fair few yards away on iron sights). Then i tried a shotgun. It bruised my shoulder because i wasn'r holding it right. As I used to do weight training i'm not a skinny shouldered lad it was just the way i held the gun to my shoulder, its not all about strength ts about position.

This was totaly irrelavent but it was all i could come up with at the time. :)

Lawnboy360
31st Oct 2003, 17:43
But that doesn't compare to the infamous scope-induced black eyes...

Can be quite worse than a simple black-eye actually...

The_Guided
31st Oct 2003, 18:14
thats cuased by stupid people looking through the scope too close and the gun comes back and hits them with hilarious results followed by either a screaming pain (if they were a wimp) or a quite pronounced "owww" and a black eye.

I saw someone do that once, i was laughing that hard i leaked piss (slight exageraton but hey whos gonna know?). :D

gareis
1st Nov 2003, 03:54
I'll play a female Alex. Why? Because she looks so much cooler in the GameStar video.

Actually, I think I'll choose whichever looks the best for my first run, then whoever looks most exotic from the other gender for the next. I used plain JC followed by albino JC in the first one.

Prohass
1st Nov 2003, 04:08
Im gonna be male, simply because im male. And I wanna see the reactions of chicks when i crack onto them in the game. Although I guess the reaction would be funnier/sexier if you were a chick.

Zhanate
1st Nov 2003, 06:39
I usually like to play the female characters when I can because being female, it's cool to be able to "be me" in a game, since most characters are male.

But I really think Alex in Area 51 is a male--and if Alex and JC (and Paul?) are clones, they should all be the same gender. Sure, you could say they ousted the Y and duplicated the X, but it just doesn't seem to fit. So the first time through I'll definitely play as male, because in my Deus Ex world, that's how it has to be.

I'm also a little leary of the differences between what happens if you play male or you play female.

But if I can blow up anyone who makes a stupid remark, it'll be OK.

Amazon Warrior
2nd Nov 2003, 16:19
thats cuased by stupid people looking through the scope too close and the gun comes back and hits them with hilarious results followed by either a screaming pain (if they were a wimp) or a quite pronounced "owww" and a black eye.
Heh! something like that happened to me the first time I fired an SA80 with live ammunition instead of blanks. The recoil is much greater with live rounds (duh!), and the rear sight crunched into my glasses (fortunately, or I could have been without an eye). After that I had to remember to tuck my head much further back than I was used to doing on exercises, where we used blank ammo to avoid mass casualities and our parents suing the school... :p

Actually, you can cause damage with blanks too if you're not careful. This guy demonstrated by shooting a blank round at an empty cardboard ammo box, and the hot gases expelled from the barrel shredded it completely. Admittedly this was from about 6" away, but you take the point.

PS Tenkahubu: My nickname is the result of an off-the-cuff remark someone made to me in the first year when I was slightly *ahem!* drunk and standing on a chair in someones kitchen, trying not to hit my head on the ceiling! Something along the lines of "You really are an amazon warrior, aren't you?". Amazon Warrior became my computer's name on the hall shared network. Much better than The Welsh Woman, which my then boyfriend 'The Welshman' wanted me to be... Yeuch!!!!! Can't find a smilie being sick, so you'll have to use you imagination! (I do happen to be (part) Welsh, but I don't take it too seriously!)

Le`Sauveur`De`Ces`Dames
3rd Nov 2003, 16:41
I usually like to play the female characters when I can because being female, it's cool to be able to "be me" in a game, since most characters are male.

that's funny, I come to the same conclusion for exactly the opposite reasons : I am a male, and I usually play female characters whenever I can, because playing a male doesn't change enough from my everyday life (ok, being a nanoaugmented agent for a world domination conspiracy in a futuristic world IS a big change, but still...).

and since most characters in games are males, I prefer playing female characters everytime I can

GunGirl
4th Nov 2003, 00:20
to me, It usually doesnt matter what gender my Charactor is. Just as long as the game is fun and challenging! My brother likes to play ONLY Females though, but I think he wants to be a girl in real life or something..lol

It's funny though, I noticed when ever I'm fighting another girl on the game, I get a little bit more seriouse and I want to win more (not that i'm not trying to win all the time though)..but I don't know why...it's weird

AlteredGlyph
4th Nov 2003, 04:26
GunGirl, your brother sounds suspiciously like me, although he isn't me... I don't know why, but I do like playing as a female whenever possible. It's very confusing, but it's fun messing with peoples minds and telling them I am a girl, and then dashing their hopes against the rocks:).

The Glome
4th Nov 2003, 22:16
The male Alex looks kind of dorky, so i'm going to go with the female. Besides, i'm sick of listening to guys' voices in games all the time.

Err.. and the ass part. :)

ADP
5th Nov 2003, 15:28
Whatever the game starts off by default.
I choose that one!

hardbop
15th Nov 2003, 03:23
Male all the way. I am a guy and dislike playing females. In fact, I question the necesity of having a female player at all. Lets be serious about the market here: mostly male. Always design for your target market!!

And contrary to what some of you may think, most women do not crave being genetically-enhanced super-agents -- let alone playing them in computer games. I think it's just silly to pretend that this is true -- even in a game. It may be the future but girls are girls and guys are guys. We are hardwired in certain ways -- don't fight it.

Sure, there are a few exceptions, but I'm sure many women would care less if they were playing a guy if the game was any good.

And for crying out loud guys, please stop apologizing for "being sexist" when comments you make are simply facts.

Haratu
15th Nov 2003, 03:33
I will play a male character, simply because I am a male. That is the way I was born and therefore the way it should be, why pretend to be something I ain't.

MaxxQ
15th Nov 2003, 03:59
Originally posted by hardbop
Male all the way. I am a guy and dislike playing females. In fact, I question the necesity of having a female player at all. Lets be serious about the market here: mostly male. Always design for your target market!!

Along the same lines, why not design a game that may INCREASE the market? Why alienate over half the world population?


And contrary to what some of you may think, most women do not crave being genetically-enhanced super-agents -- let alone playing them in computer games. I think it's just silly to pretend that this is true -- even in a game. It may be the future but girls are girls and guys are guys. We are hardwired in certain ways -- don't fight it.

No one has said that most females "crave being genetically-enhanced super-agents." But there are probably a few out there that do, just like there are many who just want to play a good game that features a female protagonist. Again, why alienate them, or deny them the choice? Some of them will even play their first time as a male, mainly for the reason of continuity. I'm sure if the original game had JC as a female (a la' NOLF), then offered the choice in the sequel, some of the males here would choose to play as a female to again maintain continuity.


Sure, there are a few exceptions, but I'm sure many women would care less if they were playing a guy if the game was any good.

I'm sure there are, but then again, it's not like they have much choice. I'd like to think that even with a good game, it might be an even better experience for the ladies if they could also be ladies in the game. If the situation were reversed and most games featured female protagonists, don't you think you would enjoy it more if you could play as a male once in awhile?

Anyway, I'll probably play as a female the first time through, just because I can.

hardbop
15th Nov 2003, 04:36
Originally posted by MaxxQ
[B]Along the same lines, why not design a game that may INCREASE the market? Why alienate over half the world population?


Most women are not into computer games any more complicated than minesweeper, solitaire, or tetris.

The tiny minority that DO seek out games like Deus Ex 2 or other RPGs will buy the game REGARDLESS OF MAIN CHARACTER'S SEX. Why? Because they are such hardcore fans of the genre and gameplay that this little "downside" is either ignored or marginalized.

Did you not play the Amazon in Diablo 2 cause you were forced to play a female -- NO! What about Cate Archer in NOLF2 (even though she was unecessarily a ***** at times) ? See what I mean?

Now yes, this does sort of take the female fans for granted because it is essentially saying "We got you anyway, so stop your whining!!"




Again, why alienate them, or deny them the choice?


As I stated above, I think you are overstating the "alienation" factor. Regarding the loss of choices, I believe that development time is better spent fleshing out more story paths regading the different factions/classes than fooling around with gender issues.

Though, to their credit, the designers have said the differences are more "subtle" so maybe they didn't go overboard.




I'd like to think that even with a good game, it might be an even better experience for the ladies if they could also be ladies in the game.


Yeah maybe. But I still contend that the overall expereince would only increase slightly. And still most of the people playing women would be guys who are trying to get thrills from the wrong place (computer games).



If the situation were reversed and most games featured female protagonists, don't you think you would enjoy it more if you could play as a male once in awhile?


Perhaps. But the situation is not reversed, so lets deal with things the way they are, shall we?

SLI
15th Nov 2003, 11:45
Female all the way.

Yes, most games are male characters, but given the choice I always choose female and here's why.

Games are an escape, stress relief, WHATEVER you get out of it. Playing the opposite gender can be fun. I especially like it online because the majority of males hate to be beat by a girl. (so what if it's a guy at the other end, I just like messing with thier heads ok? :) )

You can count on one hand how many games (particularly FPS) that the main character is female (IE: Cate Archer in the NOLF series) Jedi Academy lets your Jaden Charater be female if you prefer. So I applaud Ion Storm for giving more depth/replayability to an already wide open game.

Why do you think the Sims is so huge? because it offers people an "alter-ego" if you will. Freedom to explore a different identity, or personality. And it's harmless fun. Choose what you wish to be but I'm very glad there is a choice at all.

lyra
15th Nov 2003, 14:34
FEMALE FEMALE FEMALE!!!!!!
i want a girl this time. that would rock. u wont believe how happy i was when i found out that we could choose a female character. definately female definately definately :D


hey one thing though. anyone know of wallpapers or any thing about the female character.....ahahaahhaha for one fleeting second i imagined lara but i was like no. ahahah still a funny thought

Sheepy_DeathStorm
15th Nov 2003, 17:11
when i get the ame, i'll decide then, i haveno strong prefrence really :p it's good to have this variety of carachter as well as the diffrent hair colours.

Picasso
15th Nov 2003, 20:47
My first character will be as close to my real self as possible, so male. After that, I'll probably alternate.

Sci
16th Nov 2003, 03:41
I almost always go with female in action games when given a choice, since all I ever see are male action heros. We need to switch the genders around from time to time.

Koif
16th Nov 2003, 23:13
Not meaning to go OT but is anyone else incredibly bored with the
Female - Fast but weak
Male - Strong but slow

stereotypical way of looking at charcters?

Dav1000
16th Nov 2003, 23:17
Yes. Which is why I'm glad they decided against going that way in DX2.

Huntress
17th Nov 2003, 04:35
I believe there was a similar thread concerning this subject and I'll answer the same way...

First time as female Alex D. cause I'm one and yes it will be a nice change for once (an all too often option not given) to play that side of the coin...and then next a male role to see what differences, if any, are really evident?

A couple of other games that had female leads were mentioned and I didn't care to play those games for various reasons...however another game that did come out by the name of Draken..remember that one ppl? It had a very neat way of allowing the two different genders to play at the same time with a very satisfactory way of doing it, IMHO :) I got to play a female lead but with a male dragon as my sidekick...so the guys could get their fun from the dragon's side of it while the gals could get their unique fun being the lead. She was steathly, a good fighter and had a very good story...even though some were disappointed by the ending...all life is not a happy ending..but the gameplay was great fun and an interesting multiplay feature...too bad it was so underrated :( Then too it was one of those early multiplayer games that perhaps was before it's time...development wise and player wise (activity)? Well anyway, that's why I want to try fem role just cause I don't have the opportunity very often :) Ta and Good Hunting!

FuriousNoob >:-(
17th Nov 2003, 06:01
Originally posted by Iluminatus
This is a bio-enginered women, it doesn't comform with the normal laws of evolution, the fact that women have been kept out of jobs requiring strenght for thousands of years and that this has affected the female physique means nothing now.


I'm not going to go into to much detail cuz I'm going to guess you were joking but - genetics doesn't quite work like that. Women not working in jobs requiring strength has nothing to do with women being physically weaker than men. A parents occupation would not affect their genetics nor would the parents decide which genetics go to their son (so he can be stronger) and which go to their daughter. An example would be the following:

If I were to practice pitching for baseball everyday of my life since I was 2 and when I turn say 30, I have one son and one daughter. My skill in baseball will not transfer to my children. Nor would my son have any genetic advantage over my daughter as applied to baseball.

You can work a job your entire your life, but this will not alter your genetics. Even if they could you could not choose which child would receive the advantage.

So why are men stronger than women and why do they generally make better athletes?

Well again i'm not going to go into too much detail but the main reason for the strength is because of hormonal differences. If u inject a female with male hormones, she will take on masculine characteristics including facial hair and muscle mass. On the topic of athleticism, men have an advantage because our bodies are not designed to support a child. Women's hips are different than men's and this impedes the average woman from running as well as the average man. Men also have larger hearts .

Women also have some advantages over men. Women typically have wider peripheal vision and live longer. They can also usually live longer when being starved to death due to the extra fat reserves.

Viking
17th Nov 2003, 07:15
Really now. So genetics doesn't control whether or not the offspring will have more male or female hormones, according to gender? Come on now.

As for the following quote...

This is a bio-enginered women, it doesn't comform with the normal laws of evolution, the fact that women have been kept out of jobs requiring strenght for thousands of years and that this has affected the female physique means nothing now.
Oy. All I've got to say is this: Sure, this female version of Alex may be augmented; she may be advanced. However, if she was as augmented as the male Alex, she'd be weaker. It's like adding 5 bricks to a tall building and adding another 5 bricks to a shorter building. The tall building remains taller, since the difference is the same. The thing is, this female would need heavier augmentation than the male version of Alex to be as strong as him; therefore, she's at a disadvantage. Just thought I should put forth my opinion at that. Anyway, it doesn't have any deeper meaning or anything. Ta! (I do realize how gay that "Ta!" was, don't even ask me why I said it, I don't know.)

oherror
17th Nov 2003, 07:59
uh i think i'll play as a male that halfway through the game gets a sex change.

FuriousNoob >:-(
17th Nov 2003, 14:06
Originally posted by Viking
Really now. So genetics doesn't control whether or not the offspring will have more male or female hormones, according to gender? Come on now.

I'm not sure if this was in response to my post; if it was if you could quote the part you don't understand i could clarify more easily. If it was in response to my post then you missed the point of the main message. The point was that your occupation does not impact your genetics nor your children's genetics. I understand what you said but if you look at my post again you'll see how's it divided into parts. The section discussing hormones was answering the question above it and not directly tied to the original quote. Maybe I made that unclear.

Kerghan
17th Dec 2003, 17:50
Don't get me wrong, it's great that they put in a female character for those who actually care...but if you ask me, it's just more unnessecary voice acting, and makes the decision about where to take the plot in future games more confusing. I'd play as male anyway.

WolfLV426
17th Dec 2003, 21:39
Female all the way, she has the best lines and reactions to many of the conversations, and female seems more suited to the actual dialogue of the game in terms of voice delivery.

Second reason: Mmmm, Laura Bailey :D

Devnull
18th Dec 2003, 23:42
Female, it's the default and I'd rather look at her during the game than her male version.

K^2
20th Dec 2003, 12:28
Originally posted by Viking
Oy. All I've got to say is this: Sure, this female version of Alex may be augmented; she may be advanced. However, if she was as augmented as the male Alex, she'd be weaker. It's like adding 5 bricks to a tall building and adding another 5 bricks to a shorter building. The tall building remains taller, since the difference is the same. The thing is, this female would need heavier augmentation than the male version of Alex to be as strong as him; therefore, she's at a disadvantage. Just thought I should put forth my opinion at that. Anyway, it doesn't have any deeper meaning or anything. Ta! (I do realize how gay that "Ta!" was, don't even ask me why I said it, I don't know.)
No reason to suppose that what so ever. Since we don't know much about the nature of nano augs, we might as well suppose that the augmentation of muscles replaces them completly, rather then strengthening them. In that case any advantage that existed before augmentation is rendered to null.

Infinite X77
20th Dec 2003, 14:42
I personally will be playing DX2 as Alex the man. However the female version is a good addition as I'm sure not all girls loved having to flirt with girls as JC. ;)

thegrommit
21st Dec 2003, 01:25
I appreciate having the choice ;)

artimus_king
21st Dec 2003, 05:23
yes grommit, i agree.

Beid
6th Jan 2004, 04:07
I kinda skipped page four and the second half of age three, so I'm not sure if anyone mentioned actual differences or not.

Spoilers both in Seattle, so no big secrets...
When talking to Sid Black for the first time, he will give you a 100 credit discount if you are female.

I am not sure if the minister of culture will ask you to be his chamberboy or not if you are female...

thegrommit
6th Jan 2004, 23:13
Yes Beid, there is a difference in your second scenario.

Hanneth
7th Jan 2004, 12:20
I went with female because hey, I just like looking at females more.
Made for an interesting time at Club Vox.
Plus, dude, male Alex has to do some thing about that hair.

DocStone
7th Jan 2004, 13:25
until there isn't a nude patch available, i'll prefer male!