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View Full Version : Do you like Kurtis or not.....



tomb_raiding
29th Jun 2003, 21:58
After you've experienced TRAOD, do u think Kurtis is a good 2nd playable character in TRAOD and should he have his on game or u think that this is a very BAAAD Idea ? :)

tomb_raiding
29th Jun 2003, 22:39
Can u please post why do u hate him or like him??!! :(

traider28
29th Jun 2003, 22:42
I liked him because he was a different element, although I wasn't to fond of him crawl animation.:D

Mgardiner
30th Jun 2003, 00:41
He's not my Lara! Lara forever!

TriggerHappy
30th Jun 2003, 00:55
He put his hands on my Lara! Now he must die!!!

I think that you missworded one of the questions. So, I was unable to vote.

Sdaltland
30th Jun 2003, 00:57
Whoa, shes mine I tell you.

tomb_raiding
30th Jun 2003, 10:46
Originally posted by TriggerHappy
He put his hands on my Lara! Now he must die!!!

I think that you missworded one of the questions. So, I was unable to vote.

Which question? :(

TriggerHappy
30th Jun 2003, 21:35
The third one.

Did you mean 'don't' instead of 'do'?

Justin888
1st Jul 2003, 00:01
I'd be interested in seeing him in his own game.

Apocrypha Roxy
1st Jul 2003, 02:45
My sister thinks he's hot... :D

I saw some *sparks* fly when they first encountered... :p

tomb_raiding
1st Jul 2003, 09:49
Originally posted by TriggerHappy
The third one.

Did you mean 'don't' instead of 'do'?

oOPS I mean dont, I cant edit it now, sorry, u can vote now Trigger ;)

Omega_Weapon
1st Jul 2003, 14:02
Don't like him; He looks like he should be rolling doobies somewhere, and his attitude is a little too much like Vincent Valentine from FF-VII.

TriggerHappy
1st Jul 2003, 14:36
Originally posted by Omega_Weapon
Don't like him; He looks like he should be rolling doobies somewhere,

Worse than that. He looks like a cigarrette smoker.

Apocrypha Roxy
1st Jul 2003, 16:43
He is a cig smoker. The brown paper wrapped. You'll see...

tomb_raiding
1st Jul 2003, 20:02
Looks like there are more Kurtis Lovers/fans than haters :)

Justin888
1st Jul 2003, 20:46
9, 5, 7...Hmm. :rolleyes: I wonder if Core will really go through with it? (as in making a game just for Kurtis. Lara can make a cameo :))

tomb_raiding
1st Jul 2003, 21:25
Originally posted by Apocrypha Roxy
My sister thinks he's hot... :D

I saw some *sparks* fly when they first encountered... :p

LOL :D

TriggerHappy
1st Jul 2003, 23:05
Originally posted by tomb_raiding
Looks like there are more Kurtis Lovers/fans than haters :)
But, the majority don't want him in the next TR.

Omega_Weapon
1st Jul 2003, 23:11
Originally posted by TriggerHappy
Worse than that. He looks like a cigarrette smoker.

Oh no! Execute him Nazi style!!! :rolleyes:

Seriously man; smokers don't have the best habit but you're a bit much with your assessment.

Apocrypha Roxy
2nd Jul 2003, 01:01
Everyone watch out, it's the Clear Lungs Brigade.

:p

tomb_raiding
2nd Jul 2003, 10:25
Originally posted by TriggerHappy
But, the majority don't want him in the next TR.

Although I don't see that in the Poll, I voted that I like his Character but prefer Lara, and a TOMB Raider Game ;)

halkwind
7th Jul 2003, 09:32
I liked The idea of bringing in a new Charatcter in the TR series. It worked with me, i liked kurtis Thumbs up :D ( which i hope they do make a similar game just with him ) The only 3 things that did dissapoint me was It was a short amount of time I got to use this Character, and the slowness of him.( Maybe thats cuz hes a man and much heavier than lara, i just dont know) Plus i didnt get to use the metal disk, (which would have been great)

XanderD2
7th Jul 2003, 10:24
Somebody has already posted a message to this effect, but I must agree with his opinion:

HE TOUCHED LARA! Now Core may as well start to look for a new guest star for the next game.

BkBaby999
7th Jul 2003, 13:23
I liked when he was fighting Boaz and she'd knock him over and his legs would just fold at a 90 angle at his hips behind his body and then he'd do a reverse somersault and kinda crumple back up. That was funny :D

Actually though I think he looks mad scuzzy, not cute, he's got extra wiggle in his walk so I don't really think he's Lara's type....maybe Pierre's, he was slow and hard to manuever although lucky for me I got a good glitch and he came with tons and tons of ammo, and as I was fighting Boaz and cussing him out for being so unweildy and wishing it was Lara (forgetting that she doesn't fight as good either anymore now that flip and shoot is gone....by the way that auto-lock thing is very frustrating when you want to run and shoot at the same time)! Overall I think Kurtis was a waste of polygons especially since you couldn't use his special abilities and weapons.

chemistry_boy
7th Jul 2003, 14:15
I liked kurtis! i think he is a good character and can c the potential 4 his own game.
Although i did think he looked really silly wen he jumps!!! Cool gun tho!

:p

glasgoo
7th Jul 2003, 14:16
He adds something new something + to the game. He doesn't make the game less. I certain he is a keeper and after this triology he will definitly be part of the TR-tradition.

Crazyhid
7th Jul 2003, 14:23
im really not sure about him he seems a bit dodgy id say he is ok id need to see him again but i dont think id like him enough for his own games but maybe later

Anki
7th Jul 2003, 17:45
I like Kurtis an would like to see him in a more important role again. As a female fan of the tombraider series I would prefer playing Kurtis not Lara. Sorry guys!
;)

ObsessiveAttitude
7th Jul 2003, 18:52
I think he's really good and cool but i think that Tomb Raider is better with just Lara Croft as the playable character... so i think that Kurtis should have his own game and maybe Lara could appear in it, but not as a playable, just a friend or something, and he could appear in future tomb raider games as a friend of Lara's

Atreyu
7th Jul 2003, 22:00
I LOVE Kurtis. he should definitely have his own game. but it shouldn't be an adventure game. no. it should be a PORNO game. he's damn sexy!!!! DAMN SEXY!!!!!!! uh-huh, uh-huh, uh-huh!!!!

shalalala
7th Jul 2003, 23:46
Curtis was kinda cool, but I had a few minor probs with him, mainly i wanted to use his "blasty the doors open skill" and the wiggy flaming shuriken. that woulda rocked. And make him a bit faster...Oh and lose the walk a few steps before running and the new targeting system, but that should go for Lara also, I liked the old shoot while runnin' normal so much better. Curt was cool but coulda been better.. I still prefer Lara ;-) btw, what happened to my moonsault jump? :-p

Landru
7th Jul 2003, 23:57
Well, I'm not qualified since I haven't played him yet in the game, but I just made it to the first cutscene where he strips Lara of her guns. Man, nice cutscene!

Yep. KURTIS: EXTREME TOMD RAIDING would be a cool game.

rebus
8th Jul 2003, 19:17
I am not too keen on him. He doesn't spoil the game for me but at the same time he adds nothing either. He is just a different skin, with Lara's moves.

And I don't understand why they changed the name to "Lara Croft Tomb Raider" if they intended to make you play as a different character.

If I want to play TR as a character saying crap one-liners in an american accent I will just play the Indy games instead.

Anime_Girl
8th Jul 2003, 19:23
I think Kurtis is a great character, adding a whole new element and pace to the game. Which is great, I've completed it and starting it again tomorrow!

He is gorgeous, so its nice for the ladies! Yummmmm.

I think a kurtis game at this stage wouldn't appeal to everyone, because we don't know alot about him, he should have is own profile like Lara and have a deeper role in the next couple of games and then he could strike out on his own!

Kurtis!!!!!! Keep him, he's gorgeous, mysterious and wicked cool!

P.S. Lara is stunning in this game, keep it up girl. :D:

Leigh Croft
8th Jul 2003, 20:48
He's GRRRRRR8888888! :p He's a gr8 character and realy adds an extra element to the game! I love the cut scenes with him in, theyre gr8! He's a cool character and think he should stay!

Fraser
9th Jul 2003, 00:04
I thought Kurtis was a cool character. He was well written into the game, I like his subtle humour and his way of doing things. A new character is a good addition to Tomb Raider. Sure, give the man a game of his own, but I really want him to feature in the next Tomb Raider game, he worked really well in TAOD. Are you listening to this Core?

XanderD2
9th Jul 2003, 00:20
Now that I finished the game I hope that Lara will keep the Chirugai Blade, and the next time we see Kurtis will be in his own game so the TR series may be Lara's exclusive playground again.

D3v1L80Y
10th Jul 2003, 20:43
IMO, the levels where you play as Kurtis were all too easy and pretty straight forward....and it really sucked that you never really got to use his "Jedi-like" powers or his little Xena Warrior Princess frisbee thing in the actual gameplay....I believe the game would have been fine without him

Chilled Unit
10th Jul 2003, 20:44
D'oh#!

I missed this when I went looking for a thread like this :) !

Anyway.. nope, didn't appreciate Kurtis one bit.

Well.. I guess he's ok if he goes and stands over in the corner. And is definitely not playable. Out there. Out of the game. Don't bother us ever again.

:D

Lucifer666
10th Jul 2003, 20:46
Coz he sucks ass and shouldn't be in this one!

The fifth element game - which was actually worse than this one - thats what he reminds me of!!!!!
(I recon somewhat dated!)

owen10
10th Jul 2003, 20:50
I didn't dislike him at all. The cutscenes with his blade thing were boss imo. He hardly outstayed his welcome, either. Lara needs some mates if you ask me, and I'm not sad enough to want Lara, "all for myself". :rolleyes:

Chilled Unit
10th Jul 2003, 20:56
But what about the lone feeling of exploration and pride in figuring something out.

I didn't like the way he outsmarts her in this game, I mean yeah, it's just a plot device, but it sucks and undermines the resourceful belligerent cunning Lara attitude.

If this is an example of "new Lara" it sucks... "new" in that she's too dumb to solve some puzzles without the help of some butch looking made-to-be-cool rentahero?

Never been the case.

g3rmz
13th Jul 2003, 05:30
I hate him. They should have spent more time fine tuning lara instead of working on him.

You can't even use his special powers of his werid weapon. He is merely a less agile version of lara who only has 1 gun - a gun that is always out of ammo at that.

He is a completely pointless, superficial addition to this beta of a game.

For that boaz fight why the hell does he think he needs to rescue lara?? He has only 1 crappy gun that is constantly out of ammo. He can't sprint. He doesnt leap as far. Lara at this point has 2 sub machine guns, and a machine pistol and a luger... She would have made that lame Boaz fight far less painfull.

Aquitaine
13th Jul 2003, 16:44
I loved Kurtis and hope he will be in the next game, preferably playable. Mind, I want some unique moves for him or I don't see the point.

Oh, as for the Boaz thing? I got the impression he was the one to stay there because he could give Lara a 'boost' onto the ledge whereas he couldn't do it for himself.

Raven
13th Jul 2003, 19:25
I like him. I think he's cute, and after male gamers have been drooling over Lara's curves for years, it's only fitting that the many female Tomb Raiders should have some eye candy.
He could certainly use some work; special moves/weapons as has been said already, but as long as this is sorted out I would love to see him in future TR games, or in his own series.

LaraslostLove
14th Jul 2003, 03:12
I thought Kurtis was a very nice addition to the game. In the cutscene at the Louvre, the sexual tension between them was so thick youd have to cut it with a knife. It was hot. Err... but yes i do think that they should let us gamers play with his chigarui (yes i spelled that horribly wrong, get over it) and give him the same amount of time in the next one. Possibly a bit more. I love Lara, and I love Kurtis, and im sure Lara has a thing for Kurtis. Did you see her like 2 inches from Kurtis. She wanted to kiss him, you could tell.
Now that ive gotten the gossipy 12 year old out of my system...
Or have I?...

Sleep-Over At the Croft Manor

Sophia: Okay Lara. Who do you like.
Lara: Im not telling.
Natla: C'mon we told you ours.
Lara: You guys! Dont make me.
Janice: I know who it is.
Natla: Who is it? It isnt that hobo i saw you talking to in the park was it?
Lara: Janice! Shutup! You said you wouldnt tell.
Janice: I cant help it...Lara likes Kurtis!
Lara: I do not!
Sophia: Oh my gosh you like Kurtis Trent. He is like so hot. I know lets call him right now and ask him out for you.
Lara: Stop it you guys. This isnt funny.
Sophia: Yeah hi is Kurtis there (giggles)...yeah hi Kurtis, Lara Croft wants to know if youll go out with her.
Lara: You guys! (blushes)
Sophia: OH MY GOSH HE SAID YES.
(girly screams)
(the door opens)
Winston: Girls keep it down. Now who all wants some popcorn.

AND SCENE...
(ha ha that was a lot of fun i have to say)
:D

Raven
14th Jul 2003, 09:42
*LOL* Ha ha! Great little scenario there, LaraslostLove :D
You're right about the scene at the Louvre, it positively sizzled. I seriously thought they were about to lock lips.
I did fear for his life later on when he locked her in the elevator!! It would be nice if they got together at some point-not that I want Tomb Raider to become all about romance-but Lara seems to have finally found someone who is a match for her and who would fit into her lifestyle.
I seem to recall seeing a Kurtis fan club in someone's sig. Might just have to join ;)

Marijn
14th Jul 2003, 10:00
About a possible game starring Kurtis:

you DO realize that it would have to be a prequel-game, right? I'm affraid his adventures are over with forever after he got killed by Boaz. Yes, he DID exist and yes, he really IS dead by now.

Silvers
14th Jul 2003, 10:24
I didn't mind him, I just hated him being a playable character - the games was so untombraiderish - you totally lose the point when Lara isn't even on the screen!

He is referred to in our house as " The lumbering ape" (if you don't know what I mean stick him in crawl mode and walk along making monkey noises).

Raven
14th Jul 2003, 10:29
LOL, you do have a point there Silvers....as cool as he is, I think his animations need to be a little more fluid....I realise they wante to make his moves distinct from Lara's but I think they've gone a little too far in the opposite direction. He does look a bit ape-like at times-I mean come on, men can be graceful too :)
I reckon his arms are a tad too long, and hands slightly too big for his body-gives him a vaguely Neanderthal look when jumping in particular.

Silvers
14th Jul 2003, 10:39
I think I first noticed it when he hit a wall and sounded like a gorilla - hey maybe that's teh real story behind Kurtis - all this is he a nephilim stuff is way off - he's actually an ancient human ancestor from the dawn of time who has been watching out for us and has now stepped in to save a small (but perfectly formed) part of it...

...Nahh

Cee-Jaay
14th Jul 2003, 12:45
kurtis is a lazy get

As for the 'relationship': I'm waiting for them to do the truth-or-dare scene from South Park as a cutscene!

Suny
15th Jul 2003, 06:49
I liked Kurtis' character for the most part, my younger sister seemed to be attracted to him, which is starting to weird me out. ;)
I thought he brought a new element to the game, but then again, what is the point? Tomb Raider only needs one character to make it succesful...Lara Croft.
The idea of Kurtis being a love interest for Lara seemed cool for about 10 seconds...then I realized that this is a video game, and although the cutscenes are cool, I don't want the games turning into a movie about her love life.
The cut scenes should simply move along the story, not develope Lara's love life. I mean, whats next? Tomb Raider: The stay at home mom.

Let's leave that to the comic books, movies, and fanfiction.

Curtissux
15th Jul 2003, 08:01
I don't think that it was a glitch that you get so much ammo with him, due to the retard not being able to retarget. I positively, absolutely, without question totally despise Kurtis. I have been messing with this fight now for quite some time, and well going to try once more and if he won't target something other than the front to pods again I will turn it off and go sell it to some poor unsusupecting individual.

Deserteagle_girl
16th Jul 2003, 00:57
Originally posted by Curtissux
I don't think that it was a glitch that you get so much ammo with him, due to the retard not being able to retarget. I positively, absolutely, without question totally despise Kurtis. I have been messing with this fight now for quite some time, and well going to try once more and if he won't target something other than the front to pods again I will turn it off and go sell it to some poor unsusupecting individual.

U know what? if u can't beat boaz, just ask 4 help. Do u think that Kurtis acts different on your pc or ps2?
Well newsflash, he doesen't!
If u r not very good @ the game don't blame the characters! GOT IT?
If u still have the game, i could give u a save game! The retarget key is END, 4 Pc, & the square button 4 PS@!


I REALLY think that Kurtis is cool. He is soooo HOT! :D

Raven
16th Jul 2003, 01:01
Originally posted by Suny
I liked Kurtis' character for the most part, my younger sister seemed to be attracted to him, which is starting to weird me out. ;)

Heheh. A young lady of taste.



I thought he brought a new element to the game, but then again, what is the point? Tomb Raider only needs one character to make it succesful...Lara Croft.

Oh come on...let us female gamers keep our eye candy :D
I don't think the game will fall apart without Kurtis, but I think he's a great addition. Apart from anything else, the new TR games are supposed to have a strong ongoing storyline. I think the addition of a second continuing character will help this enormously. Most of the baddies (and goodies!) will be dead at the end of each game, after all...it seems a bit thin to me to have Lara as the only character who features in all three (planned) games. It's good for her to have a sidekick, I reckon...they wouldn't have to be joined at the hip, just touch base with each other fairly regularly.
If it's possible, I think the game should give you the option of whether or not you actually play as Kurtis. That way, people who aren't keen on him wouldn't be forced to play with him.
He does need more playable special powers/abilities.



The idea of Kurtis being a love interest for Lara seemed cool for about 10 seconds...then I realized that this is a video game, and although the cutscenes are cool, I don't want the games turning into a movie about her love life.

Agreed....if they get together, and I hope they do, it shouldn't dominate the game. It would simply be an element in the background. Subtlety would be the key here.


The cut scenes should simply move along the story, not develope Lara's love life. I mean, whats next? Tomb Raider: The stay at home mom.

*grin* But I'm sure it wouldn't come to that.....adventuring will always be the backbone of the TR games; if Lara does start a relationship it wouldn't mean the end of that. Like I said, it would just be a part of her bio., not the theme of the whole game. The fact that Kurtis is also a lone wolf type adventurer should see to it that Lara isn't sucked into a life of cosy domesticity.
I mean, would you ask her to iron your shirts? You'd never know what had hit you.


Let's leave that to the comic books, movies, and fanfiction.

Speaking of which....an advert in the back of the official strategy guide says that there's going to be a series of TR novels to tie in with the games......there's definite potential there for some slushy stuff ;)

t0Qt2BsNgl
16th Jul 2003, 06:51
Kurtis is one SECKSI BEAST! Him and Lara would make an INSANELY awesomely cute couple, and I desperately want him back in the next Tomb Raider!

BRING HIM BACK!!!!!

tomb_raiding
16th Jul 2003, 09:47
Hey cool down dude

As i see from the poll there are more kurtis lovers than Haters :)

XanderD2
16th Jul 2003, 10:54
Originally posted by tomb_raiding
Hey cool down dude

As i see from the poll there are more kurtis lovers than Haters :)

Yes, but if you add the number of Kurtis haters to the number of those who say that he's OK but they prefer playing Lara in a TR game then you'll get a majority opinion which says that "Kurtis may get his own game, but please remove him from the TR storyline."

So the majority likes him, but the majority does not want him to be in the TR series :)

Silvers
16th Jul 2003, 11:07
I don't think its entirely true that people want him out of the storyline - I think the poll suggests that the majority just don't want him as a playable character.

I have a feeling I said I hated him in the poll but actually he's okay - as a storyline character. I just didn't see the point of playing "Lara Croft - Tomb Raider - Angel of Darkness" with some bloke on the screen (and incidentally not in a tomb or indeed with any Angels of Darkness at that time).

Ah statistics aren't they great.

acemark
16th Jul 2003, 15:12
Lara, Kurtis, Lara, Kurtis, For what it's worth I reckon Kurtis can have his own game, and Lara can have hers. EVERYONE'S heard of Lara Croft havn't they? but who's heard of this Kurtis bloke? Love angle???? Oh please!!!!!!!!! god NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Raven
16th Jul 2003, 19:35
Well no-one had heard of Lara when she first appeared in a game, either...... :p
I think people would be more enthusiastic about him if you could use his special powers and weapons in game.
Anyway, I think a series of games entitled "Kurtis Trent: Demon Hunter" would be cool, eventually............:)

Tsyantas
16th Jul 2003, 19:43
I hate him! He just annoys the hell out of me. I don't know why, but he does. Besides, the title is "Lara Croft" Tomb Raider, not "Lara Croft and Kurtis". I honestly hoped she'd slap him or punch him or something

salvestrom
16th Jul 2003, 21:13
I voted that I'd rather play Lara... but you know what? I'd quite like to play Kurtis in his own game - provided we get to use all those nice little skills he's got. :)

tomb_raiding
16th Jul 2003, 22:30
Originally posted by XanderD2
Yes, but if you add the number of Kurtis haters to the number of those who say that he's OK but they prefer playing Lara in a TR game then you'll get a majority opinion which says that "Kurtis may get his own game, but please remove him from the TR storyline."

So the majority likes him, but the majority does not want him to be in the TR series :)

Unbalancable poll right :D

I just wanted to see if people liked him a little, and didn't really enjoyed it when they (I mean players) kill'em :)

(By the Way I DON"T want to see a TR game starring only Kurtis :)

Deserteagle_girl
17th Jul 2003, 03:15
Originally posted by tomb_raiding
Unbalancable poll right :D

I just wanted to see if people liked him a little, and didn't really enjoyed it when they (I mean players) kill'em :)

(By the Way I DON"T want to see a TR game starring only Kurtis :)

Agreed.
Ok Tomb Raider is more about Lara. Now come on, i"m sure that some people liked the game because of her. Yah ok the idea of a heroin instead of a hero is pretty cool.
As much as i love Kurtis, having only him in the Tomb Raider game, it would make it like all those boring shooters.
I liked playing as Kurtis. I hope he will be in the next Tomb Raider game or hopefully gameS.


PS.
KURTIS iz HOT

Raven
17th Jul 2003, 05:33
Originally posted by tomb_raiding
(By the Way I DON"T want to see a TR game starring only Kurtis :)


Make a Tomb Raider game without Lara? They'd never do that. I don't think we need worry.

saispas
17th Jul 2003, 09:55
I do not hate him, but I do not want him to be in the TR series ,either. Let him die. Lara does not need such a accompanier,she should be alone.

snake
17th Jul 2003, 15:22
OK may be you can give him a couple of missions in next game but no more. If people like him eidos could create a new game with him as the main hero.

arwen59
17th Jul 2003, 17:50
Yes, i like him.I think it's a good idea to have another character who helps Lara.But she is still the best!!!!

LuxAngel
17th Jul 2003, 18:13
Could. Kurtis. Be. Any. Slower? :mad: I was very excited about playing as Kurtis at first, but the wind was taken clean out of my proverbial sails. He hoists himself up like an old man, he trots along and can't sprint, and I hated that he does that walk-2-steps-then-run move; sure, Lara did too, but she wasn't as unweildy as Kurtis. Heck, both of them need to learn to RUN!!

Also, I wanted desperately to use his disk of death.:p Initially I thought he looked kinda dirty, like someone that lived on the street. I actually began liking how cool he is. With some movement improvements, I would really enjoy playing as Kurtis again.

Laras_BF
17th Jul 2003, 18:29
i buy tombraider games for LARA only
not a slow a s s jerk like kurtis
so in the future when they release a new LARA game and i hear rumours that i will have to play someone other than LARA i will not buy the game.

Raven
18th Jul 2003, 02:40
That's a powerful reaction. You only had to play Kurtis on three levels.
Lara will always be the main character. It's her game. If you enjoy her, I don't think there's any need to be put off completely by the inclusion of supporting characters.
BTW, what a surprise that someone whose username is Lara's BF should not like Kurtis :rolleyes: Come on guys, don't be jealous....don't you want our Lara to be happy? :D

John Carter
18th Jul 2003, 04:24
Hard to say about Kurtis, yet. Just got to the Sanitarium myself.

Kurtis appears to move a bit, shall we say, inelegantly, as one would expect a dude to move. Might be fun for a while. I tend to play Lara with the intent not to get her kilt, with Kurtis I might take more risks as I have less "emotional investment" in the character. After all, it's just a savegame reload.

Right?

(provided of course there's not some semi-metaphysical alternate-universe thing going on where the little animated sprite collections die real deaths and scream out their rage at their inept puppetmasters with their dying breaths, time and time again...)

tomb_raiding
18th Jul 2003, 13:24
Yeah when Lara dies I feel it like it is a pain flaming in my Heart :o
Don't ask me what I felt in the Last TRLR FMV :D

Silvers
18th Jul 2003, 13:29
Originally posted by John Carter
(provided of course there's not some semi-metaphysical alternate-universe thing going on where the little animated sprite collections die real deaths and scream out their rage at their inept puppetmasters with their dying breaths, time and time again...)

Hmm was I being too careful with him, one wonders!

Stormgard
19th Jul 2003, 10:03
I played the sanitarium for the first time last night.

I had to resist the urge to throw him down the elevator shaft. His moves are clunky, especially the roll, I mean come on, look at Lara's roll & look @ Kurtis' roll. The crouch thing is dodgy too, & he takes too long to stand up & too long to start moving when crouched.
Don't even get me started on his 'special' abilities.

In conclusion, I hope he doesn't make another playable appearance in a TR game. Maybe a spin off, but not a main one.

Pinguicha
20th Jul 2003, 12:58
I LOVED Kurtis! He gave something that was missing in the game... He should be in the next TR game!:) AND if we put together the ones that think he should have his game with the ones who like him, but prefer Lara... they're more than the ones who hate him!:p

Deserteagle_girl
20th Jul 2003, 15:29
When ppl h8 someone, they find a lot of reasons why!
OK I understand that some guys h8 him, cuz they have a crush on Lara, it's ok 2 b jealous, but come on, let's face it Lara is NOT real!
Some ppl say that he is way 2 slow and he walks like an ape!:rolleyes: U know what, that's a silly reason 2 h8 someone! Who cares if he moves a little weird as long as he does the job done!

Oh and remember the Boaz? Some ppl h8 KURTIS cuz THEY can't kill it! What's up with that if u can't play very well it doesn’t mean that the character u play is stupid!
Let's face it ppl Boaz was NOT that hard 2 kill! After all those bosses in TR 1& TR 3, Boaz was easy 2 kill.

So in the future ppl find a GOOD reason 2 h8 Kurtis! (If there r good reasons 2 h8 him).

Deserteagle_girl
20th Jul 2003, 15:31
oops i missed my coffee 2 day:o
*Who cares ow he moves if he GETS the job done! Sorry bout that everybody

Pinguicha
20th Jul 2003, 15:35
Deserteagle_girl, you're RIGHT!! If ppl want to hate someone, find GOOD reasons to hate! Boaz ISN'T THAT HARD to kill... she just toom me 5 minutes or so... When someone finds A GOOD reason to hate Kurtis, please, post it...

I WANT KURTIS IN THE NEXT TR GAME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

XanderD2
21st Jul 2003, 11:57
Originally posted by Pinguicha
When someone finds A GOOD reason to hate Kurtis, please, post it...


Let me counter your request with my own: "Please post a good reason to love Kurtis." Ravings like 'he is sooo coool' do not count. :rolleyes: ;)

Notts Raider
21st Jul 2003, 12:56
it was like playing a level out of syphon filter, dont get me wrong, i like syphon filter but not in the middle of TR.

Deserteagle_girl
21st Jul 2003, 16:45
QUOTE]Originally posted by XanderD2
Let me counter your request with my own: "Please post a good reason to love Kurtis." Ravings like 'he is sooo coool' do not count. :rolleyes: ;) [/QUOTE]

OK here r some good reasons y ppl like Kurtis:

It's good playing as someone else 4 a change (no offence Lara)

He doesn’t look that bad as some ppl say.

He HELPS Lara!!! He doesn’t try 2 kill her!!! If u don't think that this is important, then try 2 remember when Bouchard tried 2 kill Lara, when he sent in the "cleaner"...what do u think 'bout that? Or 4 those of u who messed up with Bouchard in his hideout remember when he pulls out a gun & shoots Lara...did u like that? No.. I don't think so! :mad:
I don't understand y ppl h8 Kurtis so much...after all, u have 2 admit that he is with the good guys.:D

XanderD2
21st Jul 2003, 18:50
Originally posted by Deserteagle_girl
OK here r some good reasons y ppl like Kurtis:

Now that you have posted your reasons for loving Kurtis in the game, here are my problems with the guy:

a) Lara's first encounter with Kurtis ends with Kurtis robbing Lara of the first Obscura painting. OK, he did not know what Lara wanted to do with the painting (although I find it very strange that somebody with such psychic powers was unable to sense Lara's motives. /lameness?/). Basically he did the same thing as Karel, he let Lara do the hard work for him. Nice! After that I could have killed him on sight.

b) His debut in AoD was pretty lame. The only weapon he used was his touted pistol. And the Chriugai Blade? Nope.

c) His abilities seem to be a cheap copy of certain Jedi abilities (far-seeing, telekinetic powers, throwing the Chirugai blade = lightsaber throwing) which were featured and better implemented in Jedi Knight 1 and 2.

d) For me his presence somehow made the game less 'tombraiderish'. TR is about tombs/adventures/artifacts AND Lara. (Go ahead, call me a bloody conservative :D ). He may be a guest star (for one episode), he may get his own game (God knows, it might be fun if they 'upgrade' him ;) ), but let LARA do the tombraiding ALONE. The feeling of loneliness was part of the mystery in Tomb Raider 1. You are on your own against the odds. There is nobody else to help you. Now, with this guy meddling in Lara's business, this wonderful feeling is gone.

e) According to Kurtis biographies, he sought revenge for the death of his father. And in the end, he again let somebody else do his dirty work.

f) Hopefully, the developers do not wish to work a lame love story into the TR series. A Bond-girl for Mr. Bond, a Lara-guy for Ms. Croft, and no commitments beyond a single episode, eh? Ouch! On the other hand, Kurtis and Janice would be a perfect match. :p

Pinguicha
21st Jul 2003, 21:38
Ok, you asked for it... GOOD reasons to love Kurtis:

-He helps Lara
-It's good to control someone diffrent for a while (BUT I prefer controlling Lara, she's the star of the game...
-He's hot for a game character (oh, come on, say that it doesn't matter! Most of the ppl started playing TR because of Lara's looks!!!)
-He has those "cool" and special powers... :D

XanderD2
21st Jul 2003, 22:22
Originally posted by Pinguicha
Ok, you asked for it... GOOD reasons to love Kurtis:

-He helps Lara


Or exploits her rather shamelessly.



-It's good to control someone diffrent for a while

I've never felt the urge to control anybody else in a TR game.



Most of the ppl started playing TR because of Lara's looks!!)

Really?. I've been playing TR games since TR1 came out, and in the good old TR1 Lara was far from being a bomb-shell with her pyramid breasts, and brick-shaped buttocks. It was the gameplay and the spirit of adventuring that made TR1 so successful, and not watching Lara's backside all the time.

Pinguicha
21st Jul 2003, 22:38
Well, XanderD2, I'm not saying that YOU started to play TR because of Lara's looks, but, if you came to Portugal, you'll see about what I'm talking... I GOT MY CLOTHES WET when I was young and walked to a man who was watching Lara on the screen... drool everywhere...:eek: And if you didn't need to control another character besides Lara, that's YOU... Go and ask to the girls in this forum and tell me how much of the like to play as Kurtis... (oh, and I must agree with you in some point... At the Louvre, Kurtis "helped" Lara quite shamelessy...)

tomb_raiding
21st Jul 2003, 23:03
Come'on Xander you don't have to be so jealous cuz Kurtis is with Lara :D

Notts Raider
21st Jul 2003, 23:14
Kurtis would be ok in his own game, his mission in AOD was a cross between Syphon filter and resident evil. it was a pleasure to get lara back

Pinguicha
21st Jul 2003, 23:19
tomb_raiding, I can say you're 100% right... All male TR players are jealous of Kurtis because he touched Lara like that... :D
I've played TR since it got out (with just seven years!) and I NEVER saw anyone with a male character like that before... FACE IT, MEN, YOU'RE ALL JEALOUS! :p

XanderD2
21st Jul 2003, 23:20
You said yourself: "the girls on this forum" :) That's another reason why I don't like Kurtis because he is simply a marketing ploy. TR1 was successful because it was innovative and the gameplay was brillant. You are right, after the success of TR1 Eidos began to focus its marketing on Lara's other, hmm... assets.

Now, they seem to have decided that the "girl-power" is not attractive enough any more, and they needed something new or somebody new to spice up the game for the female players. So they resorted to a cheap trick, instead of improving the features that really count in a TR game: level design, level size, exploration, gameplay, responsive controls, and so on.

Honestly, is Kurtis really that cool? I think Alex Munroe from Elite Force 2 or Kyle Katarn from Jedi Knight is much cooler. ;)

XanderD2
21st Jul 2003, 23:38
Originally posted by tomb_raiding
Come'on Xander you don't have to be so jealous cuz Kurtis is with Lara :D

Oh, man, can't you invent a better riposte? It was old ten minutes after it was posted the first time on this board. :p

Pinguicha
21st Jul 2003, 23:40
Yes, XanderD2, Kurtis is THAT cooler... And maybe you're right with the thing to "spice female players up"... well, they did a good job in spicing us up, didn't they?:D If you play TRAOD, over and over againg like I've been doing, "pretending" that you aren't jealous of Kurtis, you'll see why he's cool... many males think he's cool too :eek: One of my friends DID get scared when I said I found Kurtis hot (for a game character)... and I noticed him getting my room all wet with the usual "drool" for Lara's "curves" AND HE THOUGHT I WAS CRAZY! They did a good job with both Lara and Kurtis... they spiced even the person I didn't expect to spice... Oh and I'LL ALWAYS PLAY TR!! I always did and I'll always do... I'm a TOMB RAIDER 4EVER!

XanderD2
22nd Jul 2003, 00:06
Originally posted by Pinguicha
Yes, XanderD2, Kurtis is THAT cooler...

Don't tell it to your boyfriend :p He may start smoking and sticking blade-like pieces to a freesbee. :D

So it's the Leonardo di Caprio effect, isn't it? ;).


"pretending" that you aren't jealous of Kurtis.

Funny, most of the Kurtis fans must have been cloned because they use this argument over and over :D My dear Pinguicha, I'm too old to be jealous of a bunch of polygons. And I prefer real women with whom I can interact in a more traditional way. ;)

tomb_raiding
22nd Jul 2003, 00:09
I AM a male, Pinguicha and I'm not Jealous, well maybe Partially jealous :p

and I once maybe 5 month ago posted on this forum a thread that is titled by "Are you Jealous with Kurtis being with Lara (for Males) LOL , but that was along time ago :)

Mike Hawthorne
22nd Jul 2003, 00:19
I don't like him, I'm happy with Lara!

I am playing him now and can't wait to get back to the real deal.

Mike

Raven
22nd Jul 2003, 03:12
Originally posted by XanderD2
a) Lara's first encounter with Kurtis ends with Kurtis robbing Lara of the first Obscura painting. OK, he did not know what Lara wanted to do with the painting (although I find it very strange that somebody with such psychic powers was unable to sense Lara's motives. /lameness?/).

-Telekinesis isn't the same thing as telepathy. Because he can manipulate objects with his mind, doesn't mean he can read other people's minds.


Basically he did the same thing as Karel, he let Lara do the hard work for him.

Well, first of all, he IS in a supporting role, rather than being the main character.....and if he had done most of the work, wouldn't the game have focused more on his activities, at Lara's expense? In any case, he was on the same trail as Lara, doing his own detective work, all the way through the first part of the game, which is why Lara kept catching glimpses of him. They couldn't BOTH get the first painting, and presumably he took it because he needed it to stop Eckhardt, and he assumed that Lara was simply collecting it as a trophy.



His debut in AoD was pretty lame. The only weapon he used was his touted pistol. And the Chriugai Blade? Nope.

A fair point. His Chirugai blade and special powers need to be usable in-game, that would have given people more incentive to play him. I don't see this as a reason to exclude him from future games though, it's something that will hopefully be addressed.
I reckon Kurtis' special abilities were orginally intended to be playable, and were one of the things that got cut due to the rush to get the game released.


His abilities seem to be a cheap copy of certain Jedi abilities (far-seeing, telekinetic powers, throwing the Chirugai blade = lightsaber throwing) which were featured and better implemented in Jedi Knight 1 and 2.

I've never played those games myself.....do the Jedi actually throw their lightsabers? Anyhow, with the amount of games around at the mo, it's going to be hard to come up with totally unique special powers for any game character. You could just as well argue that Lara's atheleticism and jumping ability is a copy of other game characters who are built along similar lines.


For me his presence somehow made the game less 'tombraiderish'. TR is about tombs/adventures/artifacts AND Lara. (Go ahead, call me a bloody conservative :D ).

You bloody conservative :D
I feel like I keep repeating this in my various pro-Trent posts, but TR still is, and always will be, about Lara. I don't think any supporting character will ever take her central position, or her glory. I like having him around, personally....it's nice to see her working together with someone else some of the time.



According to Kurtis biographies, he sought revenge for the death of his father. And in the end, he again let somebody else do his dirty work.

No, he had his own battle at the time; it's not as though he just sat on his backside while Lara did all the fighting.
He fought Boaz while Lara went after Eckhardt. It was all part and parcel of the same effort to stop Eckhardt and his Cabal.
Now in practical terms, the player can only control Lara OR Kurtis at any one time. They couldn't BOTH fight Eckhardt. You've been saying that you see Kurtis as intruding on Lara's adventures as it is; how would you have felt if the climactic battle with Eckhardt had been played as Kurtis instead of Lara?
Allow me to quote you again:


....let LARA do the tombraiding ALONE. The feeling of loneliness was part of the mystery in Tomb Raider 1. You are on your own against the odds. There is nobody else to help you. Now, with this guy meddling in Lara's business, this wonderful feeling is gone.

You seem to be saying that his very presence in the game is an intrusion on Lara's action, but then in the next breath criticising him for not doing more!
As I see it, the developers essentially included two boss fights so that both Lara and Kurtis could get a piece of the action. The biggest fight went to Lara, as she's the main character. I think that's a reasonable balance.


Hopefully, the developers do not wish to work a lame love story into the TR series. A Bond-girl for Mr. Bond, a Lara-guy for Ms. Croft, and no commitments beyond a single episode, eh? Ouch! On the other hand, Kurtis and Janice would be a perfect match. :p

It wouldn't have to be lame, nor would it take over the adventuring theme. If it did happen, it would just be a part of the backdrop. I think it would make no difference to the actual gameplay.
You can still be an action heroine and have a boyfriend ;) Lara will always be a free spirit. Still, I'll have Kurtis if she doesn't want him......


~Raven :)

Deserteagle_girl
22nd Jul 2003, 03:45
Originally posted by XanderD2
Now that you have posted your reasons for loving Kurtis in the game, here are my problems with the guy:

a) Lara's first encounter with Kurtis ends with Kurtis robbing Lara of the first Obscura painting. OK, he did not know what Lara wanted to do with the painting (although I find it very strange that somebody with such psychic powers was unable to sense Lara's motives. /lameness?/). Basically he did the same thing as Karel, he let Lara do the hard work for him. Nice! After that I could have killed him on sight.
OK so in the Louvre, Karel enter Kurtis' body. Remember the part when Von Croy got killed, the person who killed him it was Karel.
So basically Karel steels Lara's painting.

b) His debut in AoD was pretty lame. The only weapon he used was his touted pistol. And the Chriugai Blade? Nope.
Saying that u don't like Kurtis cuz u don't get 2 use his blade is like the one with the controls

c) His abilities seem to be a cheap copy of certain Jedi abilities (far-seeing, telekinetic powers, throwing the Chirugai blade = lightsaber throwing) which were featured and better implemented in Jedi Knight 1 and 2.
Oh gimme a break...don't mix them up!

d) For me his presence somehow made the game less 'tombraiderish'. TR is about tombs/adventures/artifacts AND Lara. (Go ahead, call me a bloody conservative :D ). He may be a guest star (for one episode), he may get his own game (God knows, it might be fun if they 'upgrade' him ;) ), but let LARA do the tombraiding ALONE. The feeling of loneliness was part of the mystery in Tomb Raider 1. You are on your own against the odds. There is nobody else to help you. Now, with this guy meddling in Lara's business, this wonderful feeling is gone.
AOD was less tomb raiderish with or without Kurtis!

e) According to Kurtis biographies, he sought revenge for the death of his father. And in the end, he again let somebody else do his dirty work.
Oh yah? He saves Lara's butt, when he helped her escape from Boaz.

f) Hopefully, the developers do not wish to work a lame love story into the TR series. A Bond-girl for Mr. Bond, a Lara-guy for Ms. Croft, and no commitments beyond a single episode, eh? Ouch! On the other hand, Kurtis and Janice would be a perfect match. :p
Ha-ha, very funny:rolleyes:
I still agree 'bout the "lame love story part"

XanderD2
22nd Jul 2003, 08:29
Originally posted by Raven
Telekinesis isn't the same thing as telepathy. Because he can manipulate objects with his mind, doesn't mean he can read other people's minds.


I did not say that he should read Lara's mind, I wrote that I expected that somebody with such 'occult' powers was possibly capable of sensing that the other person was a 'goodie' or a 'baddie'. Especially after tailing her for some time...



I've never played those games myself.....do the Jedi actually throw their lightsabers?

Yes, they do throw their lightsabers (Return of the Jedi, plus stories from the expanded SW universe).


Anyhow, with the amount of games around at the mo, it's going to be hard to come up with totally unique special powers for any game character. You could just as well argue that Lara's atheleticism and jumping ability is a copy of other game characters who are built along similar lines.

Not a very good point, I'm afraid. Athleticism and jumping, even when augmented beyond the ordinary human limits, are everyday abilities/characteristics while telekinetic powers and the so called "far-seeing" are occult or superhuman abilities (and the hallmark abilities of the Jedi. Try Jedi Outcast (a great game) and you'll see what I mean).


You seem to be saying that his very presence in the game is an intrusion on Lara's action, but then in the next breath criticising him for not doing more!

I was trying to point out the inconsistencies in his actions and in the story: he wants revenge for very personal reasons, and yet he lets Lara deal with Eckhardt (a contradiction in the plot). He is supposed to be a good guy, a yet the first impression you get (after a tricky-as-hell fight with that 'durn' ghost ;) ) is that he is an adversary who shadows and robs Lara, a shady character who is interfering with Lara's attempt to clear her name (badly orchestrated debut for a supposedly positive character which ruins his reputation in the eyes of many Lara/TR fans).

Listen, I'm not against dedicating a separate game to Kurtis so he can prove his mettle with all of his abilities enabled (I stated this opionon a couple of times in other threads), but I do not like the way he was introduced in the TR storyline (or, in fact, that he was introduced at all :) ). He would be OK in a TR RPG game, but I don't see TR evolving in that direction (despite attempts to implement RPG-style dialogues).

As to the love affair you wrote that


It wouldn't have to be lame, nor would it take over the adventuring theme. If it did happen, it would just be a part of the backdrop. I think it would make no difference to the actual gameplay.

Did I expect that Lara would always live her life alone? No. But this part of the story was left to our imagination. And that's the problem with this new trend in the TR franchise: they leave less and less room for our imagination and creativity. They tell us if Lara is not strong enough to perform a certain action, they show us with that hand symbol where to look for ammo and health pick-ups, and now a possible love interest of their liking is forced down our throat.

Sure, it wouldn't affect the gameplay, but it would certainly affect the TR universe as a whole. When everything is explained, every mystery is unravelled, every possibility is explored then nothing remains but boredom.


Still, I'll have Kurtis if she doesn't want him......

He is all yours! :D

Pinguicha
22nd Jul 2003, 11:08
Originally posted by XanderD2: Don't tell it to your boyfriend He may start smoking and sticking blade-like pieces to a freesbee.

LOL!!! But unfortunaltely, I don't have a boyfriend... but I'll say that Kurtis is coll and hot to the boy I like to see if he "starts smoking and sticking blade-like pieces to a freesbee... I'll be a good test, but about what I think of Lara's love life...

Why she can't have Kurtis like many people said? I'll only be a part of the backdrop, it wouldn't affect anything! Ok, maybe some little stuff, but I'm sure that Eidos/Core will NEVER do a sappy game (mostly because wi will not like it...), but our dearest poor Lara must have a LIFE... Anyway, Raven, if Lara doesn't want Kurtis, I think we'll be in a LONG line if we want to have him instead of her :( WHY THE "HOTTIES" ARE NEVER REAL!? *hits her head in the wall*

Raven
22nd Jul 2003, 15:42
(Hi Pinguicha...it was nice to see you joining us at tombraiderforums.com yesterday...my name there is Jordana :) )



Originally posted by XanderD2:
I did not say that he should read Lara's mind, I wrote that I expected that somebody with such 'occult' powers was possibly capable of sensing that the other person was a 'goodie' or a 'baddie'. Especially after tailing her for some time...


But that's still talking about him having the ability to sense
something of her mental state, isn't it?...or at least to pick up good or bad "vibes" from her, somehow. Perhaps "empathy" would be more accurate than "telepathy"....whichever, I just think this is a totally separate thing from the ability to manipulate physical objects with the powers of thought. From that perspective, Kurtis would only have known Lara by reputation-and of course her current reputation was that of a fugitive wanted in connection with several grisly murders. No wonder he was cautious.





Not a very good point, I'm afraid. Athleticism and jumping, even when augmented beyond the ordinary human limits, are everyday
abilities/characteristics while telekinetic powers and the so called "far-seeing" are occult or superhuman abilities (and the hallmark abilities of the Jedi. Try Jedi Outcast (a great game) and you'll see what I mean).

Well :p I think it's a perfectly good point; of course athleticism and jumping are common abilities, but they are Lara's specialties,
trademarks, if you like....the fact that other game characters also have those specialities doesn't make Lara a rip-off.
The whole concept of Tomb Raiding itself is hardly new....I mean Lara is in many respects a female version of good old Indy...but as I said, truly original (as in never been done before in any form) ideas for characters are pretty hard to come by.
I personally thought Kurtis' fiery frisbee was more similar to Xena's chakram than anything, but it didn't strike me as being a copy, as such...there are only so many types of weapons you can have, after all.

My main concern is that we actually get to use his abilities in
the future.




I was trying to point out the inconsistencies in his actions and in
the story: he wants revenge for very personal reasons, and yet he lets Lara deal with Eckhardt (a contradiction in the plot).


Well Lara's reasons for going after Eckhardt were no less personal. Both to clear her own name, and to get justice for Von Croy (and the others Eckhardt had slaughtered) Again, they couldn't both fight him. It had to be one or the other. It seems to me that Kurtis letting Lara deal with E. is no more unreasonable than if she had let him do it, except for the howls of protest that would surely have come from some gamers at Kurtis hogging the big final battle. Honestly, now-wouldn't you have been a bit peeved if it had happened that way? If it had, I think you'd have good reason to feel that Kurtis was intruding on Lara's business. Can't have it both ways :)
Perhaps the most realistic (and fun!) conclusion would have been to have them both take on Eckhardt, but we already know you can't control both Lara and Kurtis simultaneously.






He is supposed to be a good guy, a yet the first impression you get (after a tricky-as-hell fight with that 'durn' ghost ) is that he is an adversary who shadows and robs Lara, a shady character who is interfering with Lara's attempt to clear her name (badly orchestrated debut for a supposedly positive character
which ruins his reputation in the eyes of many Lara/TR fans).


Hmm...I thought the ambiguous intro. was quite deliberate...there's this guy who you keep seeing around,he nips in and out of the action, he seems to be ahead of Lara all the time, and you can't tell what his agenda is until he reveals it later on. I wouldn't say it shows him in a bad light, just that he's supposed to be mysterious at first.
As for him robbing her, he needed the painting to stop Eckhardt.
Neither of them knew they were both working towards the same goal until later on.




Listen, I'm not against dedicating a separate game to Kurtis so he can prove his mettle with all of his abilities enabled (I stated this opionon a couple of times in other threads), but I do not like the way he was introduced in the TR storyline (or, in fact, that he was introduced at all ). He would be OK in a TR RPG game, but I don't see TR evolving in that direction (despite attempts to implement RPG-style dialogues).


Ah well, I think that was probably a case of Eidos-Core playing it
safe. Putting him in a TR game allowed them to introduce him safely, in the knowledge that the game would still sell well, because it's a very popular established series, even if Kurtis himself was universally hated. If they'd put him straight into his own game, he'd have had to carry it alone, and if he'd been a flop......that's quite a risk to take.
Additonally, according to Core themselves, TR fans have been requesting a second playable character since TR2 came out.


Did I expect that Lara would always live her life alone? No. But this part of the story was left to our imagination.


Personally, I'd be quite happy to see more about Lara's personal life. It makes her a more rounded character.



And that's the problem with this new trend in the TR franchise: they leave less and less room for our imagination and creativity. They tell us if Lara is not strong enough to perform a
certain action, they show us with that hand symbol where to look for ammo and health pick-ups, and now a possible love interest of their liking is forced down our throat.

They'd never have needed to tell us before if Lara wasn't strong
enough, because she always was. They're just trying to guide the player, IMO,otherwise, how would you know if the reason Lara couldn't open a door was because she needed a strength upgrade, or because it was permanently unopenable? (like many doors in the game) You could spend ages looking for more upgrades, all to try to open a door that you could never get in through. That'd tick people off. I feel that in large,
detailed environments like the ones Lara moves through in AoD, there needs to be some kind of indicator as to which objects you can interact with, in order to avoid the frustration of endless, aimless wandering, TR3 style :) Praise be to the Hand, I say!!
I think both the upgrade system and the dialogue could have been implemented better, but I also think they're steps in the right direction. I particularly like being able to speak with other
characters, as opposed to just having to walk past them and never say a word.
Interestingly enough, the movie Lara is also going to have a love interest in "Cradle of Life".


Sure, it wouldn't affect the gameplay, but it would certainly affect the TR universe as a whole. When everything is explained, every mystery is unravelled, every possibility is explored then nothing remains but boredom.


Oh, I don't think it'd ever get that far. We'd only have glimpses of
her personal life; it's not like she's going on Big Brother :)




He is all yours! :)


Well thanks, I......wait a minute...are you saying Lara doesn't want him? I beg to differ-look what happened to poor old Larson when HE tried to feel her up Quite different from her reaction to Kurtis :)
Quite a bit of what I've written above is subjective opinion, so we'll probably have to agree to disagree on some things.
In the meantime, I don't suppose I could interest you in joining the Kurtis Trent Estrogen Brigade? No? *ducks flying encyclopedia*

Oh and BTW-clearly you are just jealous of Kurtis, because you fancy Lara and he is sooooo cool :rolleyes:

Pinguicha
22nd Jul 2003, 15:56
Raven, I agree 100& with you!!! And I joined KTEB, too:D . And people can't say that the way Lara and Kurtis looked at each other at the Lovre wasn't "suspicious"... THE LEANT DOWN, for God's sake! (sorry abhout my English... it's not very good:( )

Deserteagle_girl
22nd Jul 2003, 17:29
Oh MY GOD!
I CAN'T belive, my post was all in a quote form, even the parts that were NOT in XanderD2's quote !!! :mad: :mad: :mad:

XanderD2
22nd Jul 2003, 21:59
Originally posted by Raven
Perhaps "empathy" would be more accurate than "telepathy".


Yes, empathy would be a better definition. Sending a mental eye ahead to see things in the distance is a spiritual process which differs from moving things by "pure" willpower, so I don't think it is a far fetched assumption that Kurtis must have some emphatic powers, too. After all, he survived long enough, didn't he? The good old sixth sense.



Well :p I think it's a perfectly good point; of course athleticism and jumping are common abilities, but they are Lara's specialties,
trademarks, if you like....

I see we won't agree on this one. Athleticism and jumping are human abilities, while powers like telekinesis, far-seeing, etc. are super-human or supernatural, and non-existent in the real world. Lara has human, albeit enhanced, abilities so I don't consider them Lara's trademarks. (Unfortunately, Lara's trademark dual guns went AWOL in this game :( )


My main concern is that we actually get to use his abilities in the future.

Don't you think it was a bad choice not to let us use at least some of his powers in AoD? All we got was a guy with his Boran X guns and the early symptoms of Alzheimer's disease as he simply forgot to use his trademark weapon, the Chirugai blade in a major boss fight. Oh, and I don't think it would have made the boss fight too easy. Core could have tweaked Boaz a bit to give us a balanced fight.


...the howls of protest that would surely have come from some gamers at Kurtis hogging the big final battle. Honestly, now-wouldn't you have been a bit peeved if it had happened that way?

No, the fight with Eckhardt is pretty easy once you figure out what to do. IMHO, Boaz was more difficult. I would have preferred it this way: Lara fights Boaz, Kurtis fights Eckhardt, and they fight Karel together (Kurtis being in auto mode ). Of course, the fight against Karel shoud be different in such a scenario.


he seems to be ahead of Lara all the time

Except in dangerous situations where he politely lets Lara take the lead. :rolleyes:


Additonally, according to Core themselves, TR fans have been requesting a second playable character since TR2 came out.

I would have preferred the Witchblade - Tomb Raider cross-over that had been contemplated for a while.


Personally, I'd be quite happy to see more about Lara's personal life. It makes her a more rounded character.

And less mysterious. Realism was never a factor in the success of this game, so a more rounded character would not add any extra value to it. On the contrary, revealing too much about a hero or heroine often backfires. Just let the fans' imagination do the trick.


They're just trying to guide the player, IMO,otherwise, how would you know if the reason Lara couldn't open a door was because she needed a strength upgrade, or because it was permanently unopenable?

Somehow I did not miss this kind of quidance in the old games. But it's entirely subjective. (I don't like these strength upgrades).


I feel that in large, detailed environments like the ones Lara moves through in AoD, there needs to be some kind of indicator as to which objects you can interact with, in order to avoid the frustration of endless, aimless wandering, TR3 style :) Praise be to the Hand, I say!!

Again we won't agree on this subject. IMHO, AoD levels are small and claustrophobic. Even TR1 levels were bigger and better laid out. And by the way, TR3 with its "aimless wandering" is my favorite.



I think both the upgrade system and the dialogue could have been implemented better, but I also think they're steps in the right direction. I particularly like being able to speak with other
characters, as opposed to just having to walk past them and never say a word.

I agree. I was pleased when I found that two different paths led to Bouchard's hideout, and I can choose between them by talking to this person instead of that one.


Interestingly enough, the movie Lara is also going to have a love interest in "Cradle of Life".

It's a natural story element in a movie. I suppose Lara had other love interests in the past, it's just we do not know enough about her private things, which is good. Some things are better left unexplored. :rolleyes:


Quite a bit of what I've written above is subjective opinion, so we'll probably have to agree to disagree on some things.

That's true, but it was fun discussing these subjects.


In the meantime, I don't suppose I could interest you in joining the Kurtis Trent Estrogen Brigade? No? *ducks flying encyclopedia*

LOL!! :D


Oh and BTW-clearly you are just jealous of Kurtis, because you fancy Lara and he is sooooo cool :rolleyes:

Hehe! Lara can only play second fiddle to my special one.

http://www.sighost.com/user/xanderd/myprecious01.jpg

tomb_raiding
22nd Jul 2003, 22:37
LOL Xander r ur posts always like that :D

XanderD2
22nd Jul 2003, 22:50
Originally posted by tomb_raiding
LOL Xander r ur posts always like that :D

Not always :). Usually I try to keep a low profile, but it's 0:45 AM here, and I still have a lot of work to do, but it's rather boring so I could not resist the urge to do something creative :rolleyes:

Raven
22nd Jul 2003, 23:31
Originally posted by XanderD2
Don't you think it was a bad choice not to let us use at least some of his powers in AoD?

Yes, absolutely! That's definitely something that was lacking; those people who liked Mr Trent anyway don't mind so much, but for those who didn't or were unsure, there's not much motivation to play him rather than Lara. He needed his own special attributes; as it is, he can't do anything Lara can't (other than his little ape impression as he crouches :) ) He needed to be more graceful in his movements as well. Granted that he's not as limber as Lara, he's still a trained fighter and should be more fluid (as he is in the cutscenes!)
As I've said before, I'm sure, from reading Core interviews, that they originally intended to have his Blade and powers as playable, but it got left out in the end. One of the victims of the rush to get the game released, probably.



No, the fight with Eckhardt is pretty easy once you figure out what to do. IMHO, Boaz was more difficult.

True enough, but Eckhardt was the main villain, Boaz was just his minion, which is why I felt that the fight with him was more important to the storyline.
The idea about having Kurtis on auto so they could fight together was interesting tho; they did something broadly similar in the training level of TLR with Von Croy beating up wild pigs while you play as Lara. It would be good to see something like that in future games.



And less mysterious. Realism was never a factor in the success of this game, so a more rounded character would not add any extra value to it. On the contrary, revealing too much about a hero or heroine often backfires. Just let the fans' imagination do the trick.

I think you have to have some degree of realism-there needs to be a balance between it being mundane and totally off the planet. I would hazard a guess that most fans do want to know more about their heroine, so they feel that she's more real. Isn't that why Core created her bio and backstory? She's even got a blood group, favorite films and an educational history :)
Course we'd never know everything about her......



Again we won't agree on this subject. IMHO, AoD levels are small and claustrophobic. Even TR1 levels were bigger and better laid out. And by the way, TR3 with its "aimless wandering" is my favorite.

I quite enjoyed TR3, but I think I'd have come unstuck fairly rapidly without my trusty cheat book...ahhhh, strategy guide. But as you said, 'tis subjective.



I agree. I was pleased when I found that two different paths led to Bouchard's hideout, and I can choose between them by talking to this person instead of that one.

Yep, it's a shame this element just vanished in the later levels which were totally linear, unless Lara and I missed something on our tour :) Time constraints again, perhaps? Hopefully, this is something else which will be developed further.



It's a natural story element in a movie. I suppose Lara had other love interests in the past, it's just we do not know enough about her private things, which is good. Some things are better left unexplored. :rolleyes:

Basically, I'm just nosy :) But since I didn't like the first TR film, I doubt I'll bother seeing the next one. They seem to be going all James Bondy-y with it *shudder*



That's true, but it was fun discussing these subjects.

:cool:



Hehe! Lara can only play second fiddle to my special one.

http://www.sighost.com/user/xanderd/myprecious01.jpg

Who's the damsel then?? :)

XanderD2
23rd Jul 2003, 00:32
Originally posted by Raven
Who's the damsel then?? :)

My girlfriend.

fastclick
22nd Sep 2003, 19:45
Like i said in the other forum:
If he was a side char like van croy it would be ok but as we play with him i say LEAVE HIM DEAD!!!!:p :D :) ;)

angeleyes
22nd Sep 2003, 20:38
Well, i like your point of view xander. Someone can tell me the diference of the tomb raider II and the tomb raider II gold, or something like that?? Because in my country there aren't any tomb raider gold, if are they have another name.:)

baylisst
23rd Sep 2003, 16:12
so many quotes, so little time.............................

:D

i don't mind kurtis, i just hope they don't make him such a clumsy oaf in the next one, if he returns...

PMRGchik
24th Sep 2003, 05:28
Kurtis is sexy and I think he makes a good *ahem* partner for Lara. Great for the storyline, sucks as a playable character, in my opinion. I honestly don't think he should really get his own game, but if he did I wouldn't care. Although I doubt he ever will (those who have finished the game know what I mean). I would definetely like him to show in the next game by some twist of fate. :D Then I'll just have to buy it.

00Kurtis_Trent
26th Sep 2003, 18:47
I think Lara should continue with her game, and Kurtis should have a spinoff. I love them both- Kurtis is an excellent character!

Miss Natla
31st Dec 2003, 21:25
die kurtis die kurtis die kurtis die kurtis die kurtis...

insect
2nd Jan 2004, 22:11
live kurtis live kurtis live kurtis live kurtis live kurtis...

Muad Dib
4th Jan 2004, 06:41
TRAOD Design Team Meeting Notes

Date and Location: Classified due to concerns regarding irate TR fan club members. Participants are to be searched on entry for any recording devices.

Project Manager (PM): We have announced a release date three months from now. Marketing has promised the greatest 3d action/adventure game since the Commodore 64 was created. So where do we stand?

Team Leader #1 (TL1): Wellll.........we are not quite on schedule.

PM: Not on schedule!? How so?

TL2: Well sir, overall the player control is sluggish and the addition of an additional character has diverted programming resources from some badly needed quality assurance testing/tuning.

TL1: TL2 is correct sir. As a result Lara's control is poor and Kurtis' is, well, incomplete.

PM: Incomplete? Well what can he not do?

TL2: Most everything sir. And the little he does do he doesn't do well. He crawls/crouches like he has an upset stomach. He moves/runs as if he is on valiums and he pauses before responding to any button/trigger... just long enough to get hit by everything in striking range.

PM: Well, what about his telekinetic powers and farsee abilities?

TL1: Well he doesn't think real fast and he needs glasses too.... sir.

PM: WE HAVE TO DO SOMETHING GENTLEMEN! WE HAVE THREE MONTHS!

TL3: Sir may I suggest...

PM: Who are you?

TL3: Lara Lovelace, sir, ambiance coordinator.

PM: Yes well speak up.

TL3: We need to focus on clean up of Lara's activities as she is the mainstay of Tomb Raider. However, demographics show that Kurtis is considered a hunk by the survey of female TR fans who have seen the cut scenes only.

PM: What do you suggest?

TL3: Trim any further Kurtis programming effort. Limit/pare down the levels that have been completed. And kill him.

PM: Excuse me, KILL him?

TL3: Yes sir. We have three months. It's the only way we can provide a token fulfillment on marketing's promises, meet our expected playing time estimates and titillate our female TR fans. At the same time the uproar will divert some attention away the other problem areas that need improvement.

PM: What other problem areas are there?

TL3: Overall sluggish control response. Spastic character reactions when a weapon is targeted, no run and shoot capability, unable to look while kneeling or ducking, no binoculars, overly simplistic level solutions with little mystery/excitement....

PM: OK, enough already! I get the picture. So how do we kill him?

TL3: We put him into combat with a creature in which Kurtis' poor control and weapons are so outmatched that by the time the frustrated player can get Kurtis to kill it they will be glad to see him go.

PM: Alright then! KURTIS TRENT MUST DIE!
Let's meet again, same time, next week. Thank you all.

ALL: Thank you Mr Eckhart!

cherrynight
4th Jan 2004, 13:41
Oh, Kurtis! He is so cool!! I love him!!!

Kurtis LIVE LIVE LIVE LIVE LIVE LIVE LIVE LIVE LIVE LIVE LIVE LIVE LIVE LIVE LIVE LIVE LIVE LIVE LIVE LIVE LIVE LIVE LIVE LIVE LIVE LIVE LIVE LIVE LIVE LIVE LIVE LIVE LIVE LIVE LIVE LIVE LIVE LIVE LIVE LIVE LIVE LIVE LIVE LIVE LIVE LIVE LIVE LIVE LIVE LIVE LIVE LIVE LIVE LIVE LIVE LIVE LIVE LIVE LIVE LIVE LIVE LIVE LIVE LIVE LIVE LIVE LIVE LIVE LIVE LIVE LIVE LIVE LIVE LIVE LIVE LIVE LIVE LIVE LIVE LIVE LIVE LIVE LIVE LIVE

Lord Henshingly Croft
16th Jan 2004, 18:57
I do like Kurtis but only in lara croft, and it wouldn't suprise me if he's going to be lara's boyfriend:( (sorry guys), because this is the very first time that you can play another character in the tomb raider series (and he's a man) or he might be her "long last brother", and i like him because it is just something else.....

TO BE CONTENIUED

ILoveKurtis
18th Jan 2004, 04:51
Well... the name says it all.
I Love Kurtis.
He's hott.

Kurtis_Trent_Fan
27th Jul 2004, 00:13
Dude Kurtis is The hottest Dude i mean if he were my bf i would never let him go! Kurtis ROCKS!

Alti
27th Jul 2004, 23:34
I liked Kurtis he added something new to the game. I would like to see him in his own series, I think that could come up with something original!

Kurtis_Trent_Fan
28th Jul 2004, 00:00
Dude That would be the Best. i mean he is so cool! (i really need to stop saying dude lol) but i think that they should continue makeing lara croft games for die hard lara fans but make kurtis trent games.