View Full Version : Why Janos Is given back his heart

29th Jun 2003, 18:29
I didn't want to clutter the ask chris thread up anymore with this so I'm starting it again here ok?

We KNOW raziel revives Janos during defiance for the following reasons:
- When making the paradox at the end of SR2 kain got the memories of this even happening. That means it happened. The only way to change time is if 2 soul reavers meet. Now despite my belief that raziel can make a paradox whenever he wants (because he has the wraith blade and the fact that it IS his own soul that is needed to make paradoxes in the first place) the only way Kain can change time to stop janos being revived by Raziel is for kain to stop raziel using a soul reaver. Seeing as kain just stopped the soul reaver being forged that makes it a little hard for kain to do this.......

- Because Janos is in BO2. I think that's fair enough reasoning don't you? Afterall, Amy herself said that BO2 is on the altered timeline.

29th Jun 2003, 18:34
Well it is possible with all this time traveling and what not that Kain may succed and prevent Raziel from reviving Janos thus preventing the events of BO2.

After all just because played the game doesn't mean that in the grand scheme of things the events of that game have to acutally occur.

29th Jun 2003, 18:40
If we're lucky Defiance will be able to completely remove the events that occured in BO2!!!!!:D

c'mon kain! If you do one good thing in your life this is the time man!!!!:D

Apocrypha Roxy
29th Jun 2003, 19:47

If there was no BO2, there would be no Mass, no revived Sarafan, no Vorador (think about it, he'd be headless), no Umah, no Sarafan Lord, etc.

Of course, there would be no reason to play that bug-ridden game.. :p
So I'd wasted $50 on a game that doesn't even exist in the story!

29th Jun 2003, 20:12
Originally posted by fneh
If we're lucky Defiance will be able to completely remove the events that occured in BO2!!!!!:D

c'mon kain! If you do one good thing in your life this is the time man!!!!:D
I'll definitely second that! http://www.imagemagician.com/images/rook/wayfarer/bigsmileltblu.gifhttp://www.imagemagician.com/images/rook/wayfarer/bluethumbuplt.gif

Umah Bloodomen
29th Jun 2003, 22:43
I believe Chris already made mention of LOKD incorporating BO2 more into the storyline, in an easier-to-understand way.

29th Jun 2003, 22:58
BO2 should be altered just slightly enough to keep Umah alive somehow, so Raziel can bring her back through a timestream. Raziel can be bestman, er, bestwraith at Kain+Umah wedding.


30th Jun 2003, 00:04
Um what do you mean by Raz can just go around making paradoxes whenever he wants? To me at least that would be pointless you could reshuffle history any old time and throw it way out of whack in the process. To my knowledge, the only time a paradox occurs is when Raz's is own soul is hovering both inside and outside the blade; as at the end of sr2 when Kain pulls it from him. If Raz could make a paradox anytime he wanted he would be on histories badside and likely thrown out of the past as Kain suggested...remember History abhors a paradox.;)

30th Jun 2003, 02:18
It could be that the nature of raz's soul was changed enough from being in the reaver so long (after all, when raz dies in the abyss he looks like his body did, and when the reaver was shattered on him it was an image of the reaver he touched right before it bonded to him) that the paradox isn't strong enough with just a blue raz and a blade raz. And possibly history didn't have to worry about paradox when he killed his human self for the same reason, or because the human self would remember none of this when it was turned by kain into vampire raz..that sounds like a thing that might make the meeting a lot easier for history to deal with.

Anyhow, if this was the case, Raziel would indeed need an incarnation of the soul reaver around to make a paradox... unless he somehow managed to un-derange the wraith blade enough to rediscover it's Raziel-sense-of-self... if he did that, -then- perhaps he could go around making paradoxes, which wouldn't be so bad as all that. it'd still prolly require a huge effort of will, not something to be mustered flippantly. Though that's only if he somehow helped the reaver soul become sane again, dunno how he'd pull that off, which means most likely he won't be going around making paradoxes at will.

30th Jun 2003, 02:20
I third fneh's notion.... :D :p And what could be easier to understand than, "Well, Raziel, we've changed history again! I don't remember any of that..." :p

I think what prevents Raziel and the wraith blade being enough to make a paradox is that they are different enough. I've posted a couple times recently about the only thing common to all three history-altering events being the wraith blade itself (just to say it again: when Kain fought William: two Soul Reavers, both with the blade within; when Raziel spared Kain: the wraith blade and it's twin within the Reaver; when Kain saved Raziel: the wraith blade and another incarnation emerging); but what occurs to me this time is why, perhaps. If you think about it, the wraith blade is sort of ageless; it exists because it is Raziel's soul trapped within the blade, but there had to be a blade for that to happen so Raziel could go back in time... well, you know the drill. In any case, the wraith blade, despite being Raziel's soul, differs from him in one major aspect: that it has been imprisoned within the Reaver for centuries and more... So when the two incarnations of the blade meet because one has been taken from its proper time, then the fact of two (nearly) identical beings existing in the same place in time and space creates the paradox. So I don't think Raziel and the blade are enough by themselves; gotta be two wraith blades!