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Blue Raider
25th Jun 2003, 11:01
After seeing what is happening with Core/Eidos I feel they're losing their reputation more rapidly than what they think. It's really a shame because Core have incredible artists in their staff who are doing their best, along with Eidos, to make the Tomb Raider series solid and reputable in the game industry.

There is nothing more disastrous than being the laughing stock of everybody. It appears that from now onwards Core/Eidos will be synonymous of DELAY. They will cry wolf and wolf again but nobody will listen. But nevertheless, people will still buy their games but these two will always be crying wolf for a long time. One company stained by the other.
If this two companies separate in the future they'll take the curse with them. Other companies will shiver a bit before joining either of these two --such is bad reputation. I just can't understand why these two were unable to forsee the severity of their countless delays! The delays is looking more like the iceberg that sunk the Titanic.

AoD is a beautiful game so far, but years from now, after all the hype and disappointments are gone, the true highlight of the game won't be the graphics, the bugs or the controls, but the:

DELAY*delay*DELAY*delay*DELAY and.........,oh yeah, *DELAY* One more time everybody for history sake, slowly now, *DEEEEEEEEEEE-----LAYYYYYYYYYYY* Good.



--

XanderD2
25th Jun 2003, 11:18
Their reputation will be marred not only by the delays, but also by the substandard PR performance of Eidos. They release a game for the PS2 (although their advertising boasts that "PS2 and PC will never be the same"), but they fail to give international PS2 release dates, AND PC release dates days after the official release of the PS2 version. International Eidos and Tombraider sites display obsolete information and seldom get updated.

I understand that software development is a process full of unexpected and undesirable surprises, but the development process is supposed to have been closed before they released Aod for the PS2.

Omega_Weapon
25th Jun 2003, 11:56
I agree. There are many looking for any excuse to discredit Eidos/Core, and both companies served to feed the nay-sayers with AOD. It's a shame too because there's so much criticism for a game people aren't even willing to try before trashing it.

DaveT47
25th Jun 2003, 12:33
The fault lies with the project management at either Core, Eidos, or both. If I were the CEO of either organization, the person who keeps coming up with dates that can't be met would be in my office and the message would be - Give me a REAL date that will be met or have your office cleaned out by that date and start looking for another job!

XanderD2
25th Jun 2003, 13:00
If I were the CEO of either organization, the person who keeps coming up with dates that can't be met would be in my office and the message would be - Give me a REAL date that will be met or have your office cleaned out by that date and start looking for another job!

Actually, I would say to him:

"Ok, Mr. PR, I've just conceived the perfect schedule for your paychecks. First, I will announce that you'll get it 'when it's ready'. Next time I will delay it because the accurancy of the payroll records would benefit from further refinement. Then I will announce that you'll get it in the next financial quarter. Then I will give you a date but I will delay it again due to some problems with the printing of the check. And then you will get about half of your agreed salary but you'll have to go to the US to collect it. And I will not even speak about the other half.

Oh, no, please relax Mr. PR, it was only a joke. In fact, I have quite a different date in mind. (evil grin)"

:rolleyes:

Mangar The Dark
25th Jun 2003, 13:33
Their reputation has been in the dirt long before this fiasco. I remember the preview for "Project Eden" in PC Gamer magazine:

"It's by the people who made Tomb Raider. Unfortunately those are the same people who made all the Tomb Raider sequels. So, we know they're capable of making a good game, they just haven't done it in a long time."

And wouldn't you know it? When Project Eden was released, they completely trashed it. (which I thought was unfair, because I enjoyed it quite a lot, and it was actually ORIGINAL, not just another brainless FPS. Sadly, reviewers tend to love those brainless FPSs and the equally brainless Diablo games. Oh well. To each his own.)

XanderD2
25th Jun 2003, 13:53
Originally posted by Mangar The Dark
When Project Eden was released, they completely trashed it.

Shame on them. I enjoyed it very much.


Originally posted by Mangar The Dark
Sadly, reviewers tend to love those brainless FPSs and the equally brainless Diablo games. Oh well. To each his own.)

Bull's-eye! Some of the FPS games are almost a mental insult.

Zansky
25th Jun 2003, 15:22
Once again im seeing posts from people hating on Core/Eidos for delaying the game AGAIN. Everyone wants the game right...but do you really want it in the state that its in, im mean comon honestly. The game is crap on the Ps2, the TR fanboys my not think so but everyone else does. Once again i give props to both Core and Eidos for delaying again and fixing the games obvious flaws. Every game has delays, every game goes through these times. I think it would be better if they didn't even annouce what they were doing at all...pull a Valve with HL2... no one knew, thuse no one could complain. And thats what I see, people complaining. If the game is better because of delay the more power to them...if it sucks just as much...ill eat my words. But why not wait till then and then discuss it, instead of bit**ing around the forums complaining that the game hasn't been released.

Mangar The Dark
25th Jun 2003, 15:29
Originally posted by Zansky
Once again im seeing posts from people hating on Core/Eidos for delaying the game AGAIN. Everyone wants the game right...but do you really want it in the state that its in, im mean comon honestly. The game is crap on the Ps2, the TR fanboys my not think so but everyone else does. Once again i give props to both Core and Eidos for delaying again and fixing the games obvious flaws. Every game has delays, every game goes through these times. I think it would be better if they didn't even annouce what they were doing at all...pull a Valve with HL2... no one knew, thuse no one could complain. And thats what I see, people complaining. If the game is better because of delay the more power to them...if it sucks just as much...ill eat my words. But why not wait till then and then discuss it, instead of bit**ing around the forums complaining that the game hasn't been released.

Thank you. I agree completely. Look what happened already:

FORUM: We want the game NOW!!!
EIDOS: Well, it's not really finished....
FORUM: I don't care, we want it NOW!!!!
EIDOS: Um, okay, fine. Here you go. Here's the PS2 version.
FORUM: Hey! This seems like it's not finished!
EIDOS: Arrghh!! (bang their heads against walls repeatedly.)

XanderD2
25th Jun 2003, 15:38
Originally posted by Zansky
Every game has delays, every game goes through these times. I think it would be better if they didn't even annouce what they were doing at all...pull a Valve with HL2... no one knew, thuse no one could complain. And thats what I see, people complaining. If the game is better because of delay the more power to them...if it sucks just as much...ill eat my words. But why not wait till then and then discuss it, instead of bit**ing around the forums complaining that the game hasn't been released.

The problem is that they do not have a consistent policy for handling release date announcement (or, actually, any announcement). First, they announce it for November 2002, then they delay it until February, then they say it will be out when it is ready, then they post a release date for the PS2 version, then the release date comes and the game is nowhere to be found, etc. Valve sticks to its policy of saying nothing. Epic/Infogrames also sticked to its policy of saying nothing about Unreal 2 (and still it sucked big time). The PC version may benefit from the delay, but dammit, they gave us a release date in and they promoted the game that "PS2 and PC will never be the same" so the ordinary mortals assumed that both versions would be out in tandem.

At least they should announce that they delayed the PC version again to weed out last minute bugs. That would stop a lot of people from complaining.

GoranAgar
25th Jun 2003, 15:39
Originally posted by Mangar The Dark
FORUM: We want the game NOW!!!
EIDOS: Well, it's not really finished....
FORUM: I don't care, we want it NOW!!!!
EIDOS: Um, okay, fine. Here you go. Here's the PS2 version.
FORUM: Hey! This seems like it's not finished!
EIDOS: Arrghh!! (bang their heads against walls repeatedly.)

:)

Zansky
25th Jun 2003, 15:44
Who cares if they don't "anncounce" a release date. That is their business, not ours. Yes games benifit from good PR, sometimes. But what about hype...hype destoryed Unreal 2. And if I remember correctly HL went through several delays, and so did other great games...Diablo 2, Warcraft 3, StarCraft, all those Blizzard games come to mind. They would annouce a date, then delay, and delay and delay. And about the "PC and PS2 will never be the same thing" comon its a marketing ploy, anyone who honestly thought that the game was going to "change" gaming forever was drawn in by a ploy. If they delay its none of the communitys business to bit** and moan, cuz its not gonna do anything. Its better to be patient, sit back, talk about how the game is gonna rock. Then when it either ends up rocking, you get to Throw your hands in the air and praise. And if it sucks you get to bow your heads and wait for the next one. Its just how things work

XanderD2
25th Jun 2003, 15:45
Originally posted by Mangar The Dark
FORUM: We want the game NOW!!!
EIDOS: Well, it's not really finished....
FORUM: I don't care, we want it NOW!!!!
EIDOS: Um, okay, fine. Here you go. Here's the PS2 version.
FORUM: Hey! This seems like it's not finished!
EIDOS: Arrghh!! (bang their heads against walls repeatedly.)

Do you really think that they listen to the people on the forum? :rolleyes: I think the rushed release of the PS2 version is due to Eidos' intention to include its sales in the current financial year of the company, and not due to people revolting on the board. Actually, I think Eidos acted foolishly: they should have released the PC version, even if it is crappy, because PC games can be patched unlike PS2 games.

Zansky
25th Jun 2003, 15:48
Ever thought tho that they "might" this is only a might. Have finished the PC version and are holding it till they can get a patched made. It is a possiblity that they can't fix the game in its current state, so they hold it. Make a patch...then release both the game and the patch. Its just a thought

maniac44
25th Jun 2003, 15:57
Originally posted by Mangar The Dark
Thank you. I agree completely. Look what happened already:

FORUM: We want the game NOW!!!
EIDOS: Well, it's not really finished....
FORUM: I don't care, we want it NOW!!!!
EIDOS: Um, okay, fine. Here you go. Here's the PS2 version.
FORUM: Hey! This seems like it's not finished!
EIDOS: Arrghh!! (bang their heads against walls repeatedly.)


Or, you could look at it like this:

EIDOS: We want the game NOW!!! It has to be in THIS Financial Year.
CORE: Well, it's not really finished....
EIDOS: I don't care, we want it NOW!!!!
CORE: Um, okay, fine. Here you go. Here's the PS2 version.
EIDOS: Hey! This seems like it's not finished! We're gonna get reamed on this game.
CORE: Arrghh!! (bang their heads against walls repeatedly.)

XanderD2
25th Jun 2003, 16:01
Originally posted by Zansky
Who cares if they don't "anncounce" a release date.

Me :)


That is their business, not ours.

And that's their bankruptcy, not mine. The keyword is: be consistent. If you tread on an unknown ground (like PS2 development) then don't announce release dates, and stick to this principle to the end. But if you do announce release dates, then be polite and keep the public informed.


Yes games benifit from good PR, sometimes. But what about hype...hype destoryed Unreal 2.

I don't think there was much hype around Unreal 2, surely some fanboys expected something groundbreaking again, but that's their problem. Epic kept a low profile, they did not even update the Unreal 2 website frequently.


And about the "PC and PS2 will never be the same thing" comon its a marketing ploy, anyone who honestly thought that the game was going to "change" gaming forever was drawn in by a ploy.

You misunderstood what I wrote. I said because of this line many people thought that the PS2 and the PC version would be out about the same time.


Its better to be patient, sit back, talk about how the game is gonna rock.

Now, speaking about feeding the hype... ;)

Zansky
25th Jun 2003, 16:08
I know I like hyping games up...in the end if its great i feel better and if not i really don't care. But the thing is they don't have to keep the public informed, they are in no way obligated to keep us informed, its just courtesy. And Epic was hyping the game up untill the pre-alpha was leaked then the game went Air tight.

Whether they annouce it or not it doesnt really matter, were going to get the game when we get it. In the end it doesn't really matter.

Mangar The Dark
25th Jun 2003, 16:10
Originally posted by maniac44
Or, you could look at it like this:

EIDOS: We want the game NOW!!! It has to be in THIS Financial Year.
CORE: Well, it's not really finished....
EIDOS: I don't care, we want it NOW!!!!
CORE: Um, okay, fine. Here you go. Here's the PS2 version.
EIDOS: Hey! This seems like it's not finished! We're gonna get reamed on this game.
CORE: Arrghh!! (bang their heads against walls repeatedly.)

Very, very possible too! Good one!

DaveT47
25th Jun 2003, 16:23
The problem with YOUR attitude is that it is the SAME ATTITUDE that Eidos has towards their paying customers. We'll just keep shi**ing on them - they'll buy the game anyway! I don't care about the delay - what I care about is that they announce release date after release date and never make any of them!

Like I said in an earlier post - the PROFESSIONAL thing to do is set a date that is real and can be met - then release it earlier if it's ready - not keep announcing and then missing release dates!

Eidos doesn't care about their customers - only the bottom line, so if millions of CD's sit on store shelves because people are tired of the delay - then they get hit where it hurts - the bottom line. Perhaps then, they'll get the message that the customers want better treatment from them - or least common courtesy!

Are all British companies this unreliable?

DaveT47

Zansky
25th Jun 2003, 16:31
Originally posted by DaveT47
The problem with YOUR attitude is that it is the SAME ATTITUDE that Eidos has towards their paying customers. We'll just keep shi**ing on them - they'll buy the game anyway! I don't care about the delay - what I care about is that they announce release date after release date and never make any of them!

Like I said in an earlier post - the PROFESSIONAL thing to do is set a date that is real and can be met - then release it earlier if it's ready - not keep announcing and then missing release dates!

Eidos doesn't care about their customers - only the bottom line, so if millions of CD's sit on store shelves because people are tired of the delay - then they get hit where it hurts - the bottom line. Perhaps then, they'll get the message that the customers want better treatment from them - or least common courtesy!

Are all British companies this unreliable?

DaveT47

Well i think that the british comment was uncalled for. But what I believe is that, this is part of the industry. They don't have to do jack Shi** for you. If you don't want their game fine, don't get it. But don't hate on them for practicing what other companies do. They honestly don't care what the PROFESSIONAL thing to do is, cuz if they did they would have set a date released it and then people like you would hate on them for releasing an unfinished product. I haven't been "shi**ed" on...i just pre-ordered yesterday, i haven't been eagerly waiting for the game for 2 years, I don't let the release of a game effect my life in any significant way. I just don't understand how you can hate, and I mean HATE them for apparently "******ing" on you. Cuz you know what, i don't care about delay, i see delay as a good thing not a bad. Its not my fault that you are so negitive to making a product better. I just say its sad...thats all, they work hard and look what they get from people like you, grief.

XanderD2
25th Jun 2003, 16:51
Originally posted by Zansky
But what I believe is that, this is part of the industry. They don't have to do jack Shi** for you. If you don't want their game fine, don't get it.

The thing is: they want my money. So if they don't do jacks..t for me, then they won't get it.

Raven
25th Jun 2003, 17:48
Originally posted by Zansky
Who cares if they don't "anncounce" a release date.

Er, the thousands of people waiting for it to be released?


That is their business, not ours.

Wrong. They have a clear duty to keep their customers informed. They may well have a good reason for delaying the game yet again, but since they haven't told us what it is, how can we possibly be expected to be understanding?
The delays would be a lot easier to tolerate if Eidos would just TALK TO US.

Zansky
25th Jun 2003, 17:52
Originally posted by Raven


Er, the thousands of people waiting for it to be released?



Wrong. They have a clear duty to keep their customers informed. They may well have a good reason for delaying the game yet again, but since they haven't told us what it is, how can we possibly be expected to be understanding?
The delays would be a lot easier to tolerate if Eidos would just TALK TO US.

Alright you go find in writing where they have a CLEAR duty to keep us informed. Once you find it then ill begin to care that they are delaying without saying anything. Oh and the thousands that are waiting...to them, ITS GONNA BE RELEASED.

Zansky
25th Jun 2003, 17:55
Originally posted by XanderD2
The thing is: they want my money. So if they don't do jacks..t for me, then they won't get it.

And your not gonna give it to them because they delayed the game and didn't tell you why? Considering that delaying the game ususally means they're fixing the problems. Yah...that makes no sense.

Netslider
25th Jun 2003, 17:58
Eidos is in a bad situation now, and they will be in a worse situation if they decide to cancel Fear Effect 3. I swear I never buy a game distributed by Eidos if they do that.

XanderD2
25th Jun 2003, 18:34
Originally posted by Zansky
And your not gonna give it to them because they delayed the game and didn't tell you why? Considering that delaying the game ususally means they're fixing the problems. Yah...that makes no sense.

<sigh> I wonder how hard it is to understand when somebody speaks in general terms?

Omega_Weapon
26th Jun 2003, 12:11
Originally posted by Zansky
Who cares if they don't "anncounce" a release date. That is their business, not ours. Yes games benifit from good PR, sometimes. But what about hype...hype destoryed Unreal 2. And if I remember correctly HL went through several delays, and so did other great games...Diablo 2, Warcraft 3, StarCraft, all those Blizzard games come to mind. They would annouce a date, then delay, and delay and delay. And about the "PC and PS2 will never be the same thing" comon its a marketing ploy, anyone who honestly thought that the game was going to "change" gaming forever was drawn in by a ploy. If they delay its none of the communitys business to bit** and moan, cuz its not gonna do anything. Its better to be patient, sit back, talk about how the game is gonna rock. Then when it either ends up rocking, you get to Throw your hands in the air and praise. And if it sucks you get to bow your heads and wait for the next one. Its just how things work

That's excuse-making. it is our business, since we're the end custmers they want to buy it. It's hard to buy something when no one has a clue regarding when it's coming. Tomb Raider is not the only game series out there, and with the exception of the die-hard fans, many will skip it or at least postpone it for something else during the delay. Hell I did. I didn't rush out and get it once it was announced it was finally out. I took my time because I was busy playing another game I bought when the last delays was announced.

GoranAgar
26th Jun 2003, 12:35
What a waste of brain power.

XanderD2
26th Jun 2003, 13:18
Originally posted by GoranAgar
What a waste of brain power.

Hmm, from the reviews it seems that's exactly what the reviewers think about the game :rolleyes: ;)

GoranAgar
26th Jun 2003, 13:33
Ahhh, reviews, the joys of second hand experience. Works in every part of life.

And from what I can see in the Rate AOD now-thread most people are happy with the PS2 Version. Anyway, I thought this thread is about the PC Version delay.

Omega_Weapon
26th Jun 2003, 15:11
You thought wrong. You wasted brain power while thinking it was about the PC version. :p :D

GoranAgar
26th Jun 2003, 15:15
Strange. The topic starter (location U.S.A.) said something about delay. And since the PS2 version is already out in the US...

But other than that, well replied.

soniqstylz
26th Jun 2003, 15:37
Originally posted by Mangar The Dark
Thank you. I agree completely. Look what happened already:

FORUM: We want the game NOW!!!
EIDOS: Well, it's not really finished....
FORUM: I don't care, we want it NOW!!!!
EIDOS: Um, okay, fine. Here you go. Here's the PS2 version.
FORUM: Hey! This seems like it's not finished!
EIDOS: Arrghh!! (bang their heads against walls repeatedly.)

Actually, it seemed more like this:

FORUM: When's the new game coming out?
EIDOS: (insert date here)
FORUM: Woohooo!!!
EIDOS: Wait, no, how about this date?
FORUM: Woohoo!!
EIDOS: Well, crap, it's not done yet. Let's try this date.
FORUM: Hey, you said...
EIDOS: We know what we said. But that's not gonna work.
FORUM: You guys suck.
EIDOS: How about this date?
FORUM: I hope so.
EIDOS: Wait, we need another week.
FORUM: I'm not sure I wanna buy your game.
EIDOS: Ok, ok, here's something for the PS2.


If they'd have said July 2003 from the start, or just hinted at a new game, I doubt people would be *****ing as much.

In two words: Don't tease!

spanks
26th Jun 2003, 15:43
Originally posted by Blue Raider
AoD is a beautiful game so far, but years from now, after all the hype and disappointments are gone, the true highlight of the game won't be the graphics, the bugs or the controls, but the:

DELAY*delay*DELAY*delay*DELAY and.........,oh yeah, *DELAY*
--

EVERYTHING in that statement is false.

- AOD is not beautiful
- years from now, the only thing that will be remembered about AOD (if anything) will be the bugs.
- the only people that are concerned about the delays are people in this forum ... and even they'll forget about it after they've got the game in their hands!

Atreyu
26th Jun 2003, 18:40
guys can we leave eidos' good name out of this please? core is ***** yes that's right i don't program but i know it is hard. core gets paid to do it so they should do it a little better then they are. amatuer teams (counter-strike team) have written better games. in fact i can't remeber a good game that core as made since TR 2 but that's probably because my memory is horrible. but eidos on the other hand is a superb producing company that sure might set release dates and then not hold them (although i think this is more the developing side saying they're not ready and eidos saying that's fine) and maybe their site is out dated (then look somewhere else, duh) but they have a solid producing record. for a moment get your head out of the console world and look to the pc. they've produced two of the most famous games in recent history. Deus ex (amazing game, hailed as one of the best and no it isn't a "brainless fps") and the thief series (which has quite the standing strength in the pc world) and some others that i can't remember cuz my memory sux. so bash core all you want cuz they suck but look around before you bash eidos.

Atreyu
26th Jun 2003, 18:43
eidos has also produced greats such as hitman 1 and 2, commandos, timesplitters 2 (that's even the console world), and the italian job. well sounds like my work is done here. come kiki we're off to have hot sex in the back of my fiat polski. boo-ya.

Atreyu
26th Jun 2003, 18:46
damn that Spanks really spanks em out if you catch my drift ;)

moe888uk
26th Jun 2003, 20:16
gota agree with the quality of the games produced by eidos(except thief, thought that was horrible).

I wouldnt care about the delays, but it really pisses me off when delays happen and the Ive already pre-ordered the game. If they had told us that the games gona take 1 year to fix last november, Id have been happier, coz then I woulda cancelled the pre-order and wouldnt be anticipating the game that much until it was in the shops. But this delaying for every two months keeps people waiting for it and hence leaving people annoyed. Whatever happens from now, this whole 'delay saga' was very much amateurish.

I think soniqstylz put it very well. "Dont tease".

XanderD2
26th Jun 2003, 21:10
Originally posted by Atreyu
but eidos on the other hand is a superb producing company that sure might set release dates and then not hold them (although i think this is more the developing side saying they're not ready and eidos saying that's fine)

So you think the developers told Eidos: 'See, we are fed up with coding this darn game. Let's release it and to hell with the bugs."? Very likely, indeed.

Or how about Eidos saying: "boys, our financial year is over, this piece of crap must be out in the store because we need to impress the shareholders." More likely.


and maybe their site is out dated (then look somewhere else, duh)

Dude, you must be kidding! A game publisher's f...ing website is supposed to be the main source of information for the customers, and you say, 'look somewhere else'.


but they have a solid producing record. for a moment get your head out of the console world and look to the pc. they've produced two of the most famous games in recent history. Deus ex (amazing game, hailed as one of the best and no it isn't a "brainless fps") and the thief series (which has quite the standing strength in the pc world) and some others that i can't remember cuz my memory sux. so bash core all you want cuz they suck but look around before you bash eidos. [/B]

Let's see:
Deus Ex - developed by Ion Storm.
Thief 1 & 2 - developed by Access.

Eidos is a publisher, if you want to praise people who deserve it, praise the developers. Eidos has never written a single line of code.

Blue Raider
27th Jun 2003, 06:41
Originally posted by spanks
EVERYTHING in that statement is false.

- AOD is not beautiful
- years from now, the only thing that will be remembered about AOD (if anything) will be the bugs.
- the only people that are concerned about the delays are people in this forum ... and even they'll forget about it after they've got the game in their hands!


Thank you for quoting my opinion Spanks. Maybe you're encountering more doses of bugs than others players are, so I believe you in that the bugs will carry much more weight in your disappointment of AoD than the delays, controls, etc.

By the way Spanks, beauty and bugs are sometimes two different things. Sometimes, lets say, people buy a beautiful shiny sports car but to their disappointment the car isn't as fast as it should've been, or it stops suddenly in the middle of the road. But reasonably speaking this doesn't take away from the fact that the car has a beautiful sleek design, leather interior, a LCD dvd screen in the back and front of the interior an so forth. Truly, the bugs spoils the ENJOYMENT rather than the BEAUTY of the game to a certain extent.

Atreyu
27th Jun 2003, 10:04
XanderD2, you're an idiot. had you of read my original post you would have known that i acknowledged that eidos was a producing company not a developing company. and no where in my post did i say they were responsible for the creation of the games only the production of them.


but they have a solid producing record. for a moment get your head out of the console world and look to the pc. they've produced two of the most famous games in recent history. Deus ex (amazing game, hailed as one of the best and no it isn't a "brainless fps") and the thief series (which has quite the standing strength in the pc world) and some others that i can't remember cuz my memory sux. so bash core all you want cuz they suck but look around before you bash eidos. [/B]

notice the first words "a solid producing record" for they are a producing company. and it is true that eidos told them to release the game finally so they could get it in their financial year but remeber this is after a slew of delays on core's part so finally they had to draw the line and say put it out but not after allowing core to delay for over a year. and another thing, books are published. games are produced.

ps-Thief 1 and 2 were originally developed by the late and great Looking Glass Studios not Access. so think and research before you open your mouth otherwise you just end up looking stupid.

GoranAgar
27th Jun 2003, 10:09
Hi lads. Everything fine here? Good!

XanderD2
27th Jun 2003, 10:50
Originally posted by Atreyu
XanderD2, you're an idiot.

Ok, I won't drop to your level by responding with something equally insulting.

I reacted to your blaming the fiasco on Core, which, IMO, cannot be justified. There are a lot of games that took longer than 3 years to develop, and still the publisher/mother company did not force the developer to interrupt the development process, because some extra revenue in their books would appease their shareholders. Eidos posted those tentative release dates which later vanished into thin air, so the blame is again on Eidos for failing to stick to a "released when ready" policy regarding the release date.

As to your "valuable" final comments on who is the developer of Thief 1 & 2, I got the information from the Eidos website because the crap you posted did not worth more than a 2-minute research (and I've never played Thief). I don't really give a damn about who developed these titles I just wanted to show that Eidos has nothing to do with the actual development process, and that you are praising a company which finances, advertises and distributes these games, but has nothing or very little to do with the process that puts value and fun into the games.

I'm sure the guys at Core worked their a...sses off to get the game ready by the release date that Eidos set for them. Had they been allowed to work on it for another six months, we wouldn't argue here about who is to blame.

Atreyu
27th Jun 2003, 11:16
okay i apologize for losing my temper but i've understood from the beginning that eidos has very little to do in the development of games. i was simply saying in my original post (maybe the point was hard to understand) that eidos reputation is hardly on thin ice. in fact they are quite a reputable producing house. their reputation is stronger now then ever (due to the upcoming release of Deus Ex 2 and Thief 3). and i admit that eidos forced the game out but not before providing over a year of time after the initial release date so core should have had time to fix the little bugs and things throughout the game. but yes the release date annoyance is in part eidos fault and the other part is core's fault for saying that "yeah we can finish it by then".

the original developer of thief 1 and 2 was Looking Glass Studios which went out of business a couple of years ago and left the gaming world with a great void. now the games (thief 1 and 2) has been taken up by access but they have changed the game in no way so technically they are not the developers no matter what the website says. they are merely the company that owns the rights to those games now. the current developing team of thief 3 is ion storm (the same developers as deus ex).

i once again apologize for losing my temper and for ruining the respectful atmosphere of the forum. GoranAgar you still love me right?:(

GoranAgar
27th Jun 2003, 11:25
I love everybody here! It is in my program.

XanderD2
27th Jun 2003, 11:30
Originally posted by Atreyu
okay i apologize for losing my temper but i've

Ok, it happens to everybody occasionally. ;)

I understand that people also associate Eidos with other great games, but Tomb Raider was always a focal point in their marketing, so bad publicity for this game may make a big dent in their reputation (they had trouble with the value of their shares in the past, so maintaining the quality of the games that are released with their name as publisher on the box must be a top priority for them.) This is why I don't understand their actions because they could have done a better job in bossing Core around, and they could have handled this whole release date ordeal in a less annoying way.

Atreyu
27th Jun 2003, 11:30
still sticking with that program story huh?

Blue Raider
27th Jun 2003, 21:26
I think XanderD2 and Atreyu are having one of the best arguments in the forums. You know, after reading your points of view I hatched a strange question to myself: Did Eidos created a commercialized ultimatum for Core? What do you think?

Dead_Angel
27th Jun 2003, 21:57
Originally posted by maniac44
Or, you could look at it like this:

EIDOS: We want the game NOW!!! It has to be in THIS Financial Year.
CORE: Well, it's not really finished....
EIDOS: I don't care, we want it NOW!!!!
CORE: Um, okay, fine. Here you go. Here's the PS2 version.
EIDOS: Hey! This seems like it's not finished! We're gonna get reamed on this game.
CORE: Arrghh!! (bang their heads against walls repeatedly.)

you and mangar are making me crack up.

TriggerHappy
27th Jun 2003, 22:18
By the way things have been turning out for Eidos/Core, and other gaming companies; I'd say that the marketing of video games is still in it's infancy.

I immediately can think of one other game company that makes Eidos marketing strategy look saintly by comparision. Eidos hasn't lied (to my knowledge) about extra perks and side games in AOD. Eidos hasn't blatently started rumors about nudity in AOD. And, Eidos didn't try to misrepresent AOD by getting a false Adult ESRB rating on their cover.
Eidos/Core did deliver on a TR game that is fun, challenging, and even draws gamers to replay it without getting bored. Despite all the bugs.

Eventually, marketing officials will wake up, and see that posting release dates too soon, can occasionally create bad feelings among consumers.
I too became annoyed with the repeated change of release dates. I had planned on waiting til 'Pirates Of The Carribean' came out, to buy a game. Fortunately, my wife and son kept asking me to get AOD.

I've now resigned myself to the fact, that those who market games are scew-ups. However, as long as they are HONEST scew-ups, I will purchase any decent game that they sell.

RedLegg
28th Jun 2003, 02:53
Originally posted by TriggerHappy
. Fortunately, my wife and son kept asking me to get AOD.


Give your wife and son a hug from me! :D

Cheers,

TriggerHappy
28th Jun 2003, 05:28
They might worry about me, if I did something like that. But I did reload their ammo and cleaned their guns for them.
:D

RedLegg
28th Jun 2003, 06:52
Originally posted by TriggerHappy
They might worry about me, if I did something like that. But I did reload their ammo and cleaned their guns for them.
:D

Droll, very droll! :D

maniac44
28th Jun 2003, 16:47
Originally posted by TriggerHappy
By the way things have been turning out for Eidos/Core, and other gaming companies; I'd say that the marketing of video games is still in it's infancy.


Video Games have been around since the mid 70s. If marketeers can't get their acts together by now, they should find another job.

The question is: "Will some heads roll because of all the bad reviews/handling of AoD?"

I would say: "No, but the tester's pizza funds will be greatly reduced."

"No more North Beach Pizza for you guys. We can't afford it. You'll have to settle for plain cheese pizzas from Pizza Hut."

Now that will piss off the testers. They'll leave Eidos, and the Executives will have to test the games from now on.

On second thought, that's not a bad idea.

;)

TriggerHappy
28th Jun 2003, 21:08
<sneaks in to put habaneros and Turbo Truffles on their pizzas>

He he he... This will keep awake and working.

Blue Raider
28th Jun 2003, 21:34
Originally posted by maniac44

"No more North Beach Pizza for you guys. We can't afford it. You'll have to settle for plain cheese pizzas from Pizza Hut."


;)


Are you reffering to the San Francisco North Beach pizza place?

RedLegg
29th Jun 2003, 00:43
Originally posted by Blue Raider
Are you reffering to the San Francisco North Beach pizza place?

Yes I believe he is. But we preferr Mr. PizzaMan here!

maniac44
29th Jun 2003, 00:46
Originally posted by RedLegg
Yes I believe he is. But we preferr Mr. PizzaMan here!

Mr. PizzaMan is Cr%p pizza.
Order from Pizza Love. They're closer and you get to talk to the Barry White guy when you phone in an order. :cool:

Atreyu
29th Jun 2003, 00:56
you guys can get your pizzas from whereever but we all know deep in our hearts that the best pizza comes Papa Johns. great pizza and they give you that garlic butter sauce for the crust. oh so good. but why get pizza at all? just get Taco Bell. tastes better and it's cheaper. nothing tops Taco Bell. oh so even better.

TriggerHappy
29th Jun 2003, 01:34
If you ever show up in Alaska, "Bullwinkle's" has the best pizza in the state! They also have games and an all you can eat salad bar, sort of like "Chuck Up Cheeses".
You won't even have to check in your guns at the door. The staff and patrons are all mellow and have the munchies.

Atreyu
29th Jun 2003, 01:37
Chuckie Cheese kicks ass!!! oh i miss the days when they let me play in their but alas i have grown up and i can no longer play their. that and i pissed in the ball pit last week. oooops. it slipped.

TriggerHappy
29th Jun 2003, 02:44
Originally posted by Atreyu
but alas i have grown up and i can no longer play their. that and i pissed in the ball pit last week. oooops. it slipped.

I wasn't detered, even though I'm over forty.
I had squeezed on a pair of literhosen and carried a balloon. When I went in, I explained that my bushy beard and moustache was from a whoremoan problem; and I'm only five years old.

It worked, because everyone stayed away from me after that.

I think that I've been in a couple of ball pits that you were at. What I tasted wasn't anything like spilled soda.

Blue Raider
29th Jun 2003, 04:11
Originally posted by RedLegg
Yes I believe he is. But we preferr Mr. PizzaMan here!


Hey, RedLegg I see we come from the same windy city of San Francisco. You know, a few years back I used to work for an antique furniture business in Brannan st. and to my surprise that's where Eidos is located, wow!, talking about proximity! So, anyways, is Mr. PizzaMan an actual restaurant in Frisco?

maniac44
29th Jun 2003, 16:13
Originally posted by Blue Raider
So, anyways, is Mr. PizzaMan an actual restaurant in Frisco?

They have several outlets in San Francisco.
(and, PLEASE, don't refer San Francisco to "Frisco". The city was named after a Saint and no one who likes the City calls it Frisco. Thanks!!) :D

Claus.DuBois
29th Jun 2003, 17:16
Originally posted by maniac44
....(and, PLEASE, don't refer San Francisco to "Frisco". The city was named after a Saint and no one who likes the City calls it Frisco. Thanks!!) :D

LOL. Pardon me, do you have any grey poupon?

maniac44
29th Jun 2003, 18:24
Originally posted by Claus.DuBois
LOL. Pardon me, do you have any grey poupon?

Hehehehehehehe, We call that "Chicken Mustard" here now. :D ;)

moe888uk
29th Jun 2003, 19:34
Lets rename the thread to "Core/Eidos reputation on thin crust"

Blue Raider
30th Jun 2003, 00:24
Originally posted by moe888uk
Lets rename the thread to "Core/Eidos reputation on thin crust"


Your are right moe888uk. It seems that the more a topic is replied to the more are the chances of it taking a mind of its own. Uhh, by the way, do you have Great Poupon?

maniac44
30th Jun 2003, 17:21
OK, so back to the topic at hand (sorry for that little side trip).

This was posted on Avault.com on June 30th...

"Eidos has confirmed the European release date for Lara Croft Tomb Raider: The Angel of Darkness, stating the title will not hit retail shelves in time to be included in the company's financial year.

The game will be available on the PlayStation 2 in the U.K. on Friday, July 4th, and in the rest of Europe in the week commencing July 7th.

The PC version launches this week in the U.S. and Europe. Consequently, Eidos has had to cut its profit forecast for its financial year, which runs until today."

"will not hit retail shelves in time to be included in the company's financial year."

OUCH, that's going to hurt Eidos. :eek:

XanderD2
30th Jun 2003, 17:36
They should start calculating how much profit they lost by not allowing Core to finish developing the game as they intended.

Blue Raider
30th Jun 2003, 23:43
Originally posted by maniac44

"will not hit retail shelves in time to be included in the company's financial year."

OUCH, that's going to hurt Eidos. :eek:


Well, some fans are not faring better. Some of them have "OUCHED" slowy since the delays. At least Eidos are going to get their OUCH swiftly and without any delays. OUCH!!!