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Turel the King
20th Jun 2003, 01:08
I heard that Turel will have a role in the game. When will he appear and ho will they explain him?

Turel the King MUST KNOW!!!

The Amazing Rando
20th Jun 2003, 01:14
Try looking in the officially answered Q's thread, and you will notice that CD is not going to say who's in or not at all, and they sure aren't giving any story away. But we are all welcome to speculate on what might happen.

warpsavant
20th Jun 2003, 02:14
I'm not even sure how Turel is going to fit into the game. But if he shows up in the Blood Omen era near the lake of Lost Souls...

punkst4r
20th Jun 2003, 03:14
I think that Raziel is gonna kill Turel in Defiance and that's how he's gonna gain the ability to use the telekenetic combos like Kain becaue by killing the Turelim in SR1 he only learned to shoot projectiles.

What do you guys think?

Matt from Spam Buddies
20th Jun 2003, 08:34
Originally posted by Turel the King
I heard that Turel will have a role in the game. When will he appear and ho will they explain him?

Turel the King MUST KNOW!!!

-sigh-

No one knows.

- Matthew

Iceburg
20th Jun 2003, 12:29
Of course he kills turel... then it will explain (for stories sack) why he wasn't in SR1... he kills turel in a time before the events of SR1.

Vampmaster
20th Jun 2003, 19:07
I think we should meet (or just hear from him) Turel a few times before we kill him. That way he'll still get to be a "critical piece of the puzzle" and Raz gets his soul later on in the game. Oh, it would be cool if he's leading the Razielim in the war against the Hylden.

warpsavant
20th Jun 2003, 19:16
No, thats not cool. If he leads the Razielim (who are dead BTW) then why would Raziel kill him?

I don't want to see any more rogue vampires traveling thru time. I think the best way for him to be in the game is if he is playable.

So far, I think Iceburg makes the most sense.

Vampmaster
20th Jun 2003, 19:38
Kain never said what he did with Raziels clan. He just let Raz keep beleiving they were dead so he'd stay angry and follow him. Raziel always has the "you threw me in the abyss" excuse. I think Raz is still the key (no pun intenden) figure. Turel is expendable or will be as soon as Kain and Raz are ready to end it. I'm not sure what era the game will finish in. If it's during the 1000 years Raz was in the Abyss, then Turel wouldn't have needed to go back in time.

warpsavant
20th Jun 2003, 19:46
Well, that is a good reason to kill him. (Turel) But what matters more to me than what is not said, is what is said, and what is said is "You are the last to die!"

Vampmaster
21st Jun 2003, 11:02
But does that really mean the last of his clan or the last of the brothers or that by the time Raz dies (if he fulfils his destiny) no one else will need to die.

Apocrypha Roxy
21st Jun 2003, 15:02
We don't know how Turel will be in the game.

We don't know the circumstances.

But we do know that he'll probably be in it.

Note when Amy said 'Turel's a critical piece of the puzzle'. That automatically puts him in either Defiance or in the next installment.

And when Chris says he can't give away the plot... well... :D that's kind of a hint, in my opinion...


I think the best thing would be if Turel is at the end of the game, like in a cliffhanger. You don't see him, or maybe just his eyes, or something. But, it would go like... uhm...

Raz: Turel

-fade to black-

I know some of you will throw stuff at me for proposing another cliffhanger. I've got padding on, it won't hurt much. HIT ME!! :D

Matt from Spam Buddies
21st Jun 2003, 15:06
Nuh-uh.

I'd actually love another cliff-hanger than the probability of LOK-D being the last LOK game. :)

- Matthew

Vampmaster
21st Jun 2003, 15:52
No, don't have a cliff hanger. Just let us think Kain and Raz have won and then find out in the next game that they've still got more problems to fix (or cause!).

Matt from Spam Buddies
21st Jun 2003, 17:05
Yes-yes-yes. Cliff-hangers or no cliff-hangers.

All fine as long as the series will continue. :D

- Matthew

fneh
21st Jun 2003, 18:04
no more cliffhangers!!!! They're EVIL!

The only kind of cliffhanger that is good is if it's done as a prologue to the next game. So after the credits the ending will have an extra bit that would give us a slight clue to the next game. Whether is be raziel meeting turel or Kain about to sneak up behind raziel and forge the soul reaver, something that doesn't mean the game was only half finished storywise,


PLEASE!!

darien_specter
21st Jun 2003, 18:42
By this point, a cliffhanger ending would have to be deliberate. It doesn't mean that they didn't get to finish or anything like that, it means that this is where they choose to end this part of the story, and the cliffhanger is meant keep us drawn in, so that we will have to get the next game to know how the story ends. This is why television programs have season-ending cliffhanger episodes; it's to ensure your return at the end of the summer.

I happen to prefer the cliffhanger ending to just a new game being pooped out after we all thought the story had ended. With the cliffhanger you know that they have indeed got more to tell us, and this is the end of that installment; thus when the sequel game is published then we know it was planned and necessary to continue the story. If the story comes to a satisfying conclusion, and then suddenly lo and behold there is another game, then that starts to smack of milking a franchise. (I'm trying to think of an example, but my knowledge of games is too limited; although just from what I've picked up about it having never played it, Tomb Raider sounds like a good example - hadn't she died in the last one or something? And yet you still get another game even before the newest one, because it's a money maker...) Now I'm certainly not saying that drawing out the story over more and more games isn't cashing in on a popular game; but it does seem less contrived to me.

Regarding the prologue idea... I really don't see much of a difference. The only way that a 'prologue' could be different from a 'cliffhanger' is if the story we have been playing actually ends in Defiance, but a new one is already begun. I would seriously doubt that this is either their plan, or what any of us would really want. The reason that it seems like a 'cliffhanger' is because the games (for the most part... ) tell one complete story; and if that story is going to span across several games, then it has to keep going, and a game just has to stop somewhere. To be sure, SR's ending may not have been part of that yet; the game was certainly left unfinished. But given how simple the 'Moebius room' is there at the end, I'd also wonder if, by the time they did publish it, they had the germ of the idea for SR2, and left it where they did deliberately. There's no real way to know, of course... But the only game in the story arc (this is sort of excluding BO2, which really just got shoved in there and is part of some 'alternate history' anyway) that didn't end with a 'cliffhanger' was the original BO. And the next game then picked up 1500 years later! So I guess to reiterate, the only way to have the story continue immediately is to have these abrupt endings. The cliffhanger is the lead-in to the next part of the story... And so I say just make it a good one! :D

Vampmaster
21st Jun 2003, 21:02
Originally posted by darien_specter
If the story comes to a satisfying conclusion, and then suddenly lo and behold there is another game, then that starts to smack of milking a franchise. (I'm trying to think of an example, but my knowledge of games is too limited; although just from what I've picked up about it having never played it, Tomb Raider sounds like a good example - hadn't she died in the last one or something? And yet you still get another game even before the newest one, because it's a money maker...) Now I'm certainly not saying that drawing out the story over more and more games isn't cashing in on a popular game; but it does seem less contrived to me.


As I was saying about DMC2, Tomb Raider never had much of a plot worth continuing. If the story comes to an apparant conclusion but a sequel has been planned all along, then it's fully intentional and not milking a franchise.

fneh
22nd Jun 2003, 09:50
hey...maybe lara made a deal with the elder to come back and make more games/money?:D

Apocrypha Roxy
22nd Jun 2003, 18:27
She sold her soul to bring more block-hopping, tiger-shooting, artifact-thieving goodie goodies to the public.

Raziel never sold his soul (well, maybe he did in regards to seeking vengence, or not) because he was ressurected before he made the deal.

Besides, there was nothing to buy, right?

Apocrypha Roxy
22nd Jun 2003, 18:30
(okay, okay, I confess, I'm going to buy Angel of Darkness, but solely because I've played every game I own pc/ps2 and I need something to hold my goldfish attention span of 4 seconds for the summer. Primal is doing a great job, but I'm already finished with Solum, so...)

And I am kind of... interested in what exploits Lara's going to get into this time. On the lam for suspicion of murder? She's growing up! :eek:

Plus I'm a slave to the Eidos machine... what can I say?

someguysteve
22nd Jun 2003, 19:52
in the interviews and such i kind of got the impression that Turel would kind of be an ally, i mean he serves Kain who seems not to be total enemies with Raziel. also Turel wouldn't be such a puzzle if Raziel immediatly destroys him, then the puzzles would just involve his telekinetic powers instead of Turel so that fact that they would make the distinction says something. but then again i haven't read any of the interviews for a while.

anyway think they'll use their SR1 sketches for him or change him.

p.s. i'd like to see new and improved brothers and their clan in the defiance extras

Azazel
23rd Jun 2003, 10:00
I think it was sarcastic and maybe Kain and Raziel travel through time some more, but it isn't revealed yet that they will travel to the Soul Reaver era, because it is meant to be a surprise.

Azazel
23rd Jun 2003, 10:03
I'm not saying they will, I'm saying they could. But not all gifts were taken (Turel's).

Matt from Spam Buddies
23rd Jun 2003, 10:25
I also think there's the possibility that Turel is just too powerful to be defeated by Raziel.
But that doesn't mean Turel wont be a boss. I do believe he is and they indeed meet in the game. And fight. Maybe Turel wins, but willingly gives his soul to Raziel because his bigger brother has proved his worthy in combat... Kind of unlikely, but it would add a nice brotherly touch into the series... I think I'm gonna cry... :p

It would be just too robust to see Raziel merely slaughtering Turel and devouring his soul. But come to think of it... Raziel is nuts in LOK-D... Hm... So maybe the encounter between them will turn up into a slaughter-field... :confused:

- Matthew

kain to raziel
27th Jun 2003, 06:44
Just two requests for Turel make him more like an ally to Kain and Raziel and pleazzze keep the big ears from concept art because Lieutenant Turel did seem to have larger ears then the others!;)

Apocrypha Roxy
27th Jun 2003, 17:56
Wouldn't it be strange if Kain ripped off Turel's ears?

T'hell with Raziel's wings, your ears are bigger than mine! -rip-

YEOW!

garbagefanuk
27th Jun 2003, 19:49
I remember hearing something from Amy along time ago saying Turel will be in the 3rd game but i can't see Raziel killing Turel now. Simply because Raziel has come to the same conclusion as Kain did in BO1, that vampires are better than humans. He just watched Janos die in front of him to humans, i'd say his hatred of vampire kind is over now :)

Turel the King
28th Jun 2003, 03:17
Originally posted by garbagefanuk
I remember hearing something from Amy along time ago saying Turel will be in the 3rd game but i can't see Raziel killing Turel now. Simply because Raziel has come to the same conclusion as Kain did in BO1, that vampires are better than humans. He just watched Janos die in front of him to humans, i'd say his hatred of vampire kind is over now :)

I would have to agree with you. But my theory about Turel that I explained in my beginnings of a member of these forum lines still stays in my mind ( I also wrote a fanfic of it). But if you don't know, I believe that Turel knew about the wings before Kain, he simply played out throwing Raziel into the abyss because he probably knew Kain would kick his hind-courters if he didn't, and he knew that he was to evolve soon as well. Not wanting to be thrown into the abyss, and regretting what he had done, he, the Turelim, and the Razielim high tailed it off to the hinterlands. As it said in the Soul Reaver 1 booklet, most of the Turelim have gone off to the hinterlands, and the others stayed. They probably saw their leader as some kind of coward and decided to stay behind.

PS: what part of Nosgoth are the Hinterlands?

Vampmaster
28th Jun 2003, 11:59
I think Raz should kill Turel, but not right away. Turel should meet up with him a few times, explain what his task was, what he knows of Kains plan and their enemies, then at some unexpected point in the game he shouts "now face me!" or something and then finally tells Raz something of vital importance with his dying breath.

Zephonim
28th Jun 2003, 12:39
turel is a mystery to me but i do think we will find him in another part of time , what if you have to travel back to the future and see how screwed up the land getskill turel then travel through time again!!

prob just my ramblings but there u go

p.s not that it makes me better than anyone ,but yay im a member now!!:D

Azazel
28th Jun 2003, 13:20
Originally posted by DJpick
I'm just curious why a week ago I was ajunior member, and now I'm just a plain member :confused:
It depends on how much you have posted: first you're a junior member, next a member and finally a senior member.

Zephonim
28th Jun 2003, 13:43
Dya think ive we became vampires and posted on this for a few millenia we could become mods without having to sell our souls to the people who run this?:p ;)

Azazel
28th Jun 2003, 13:45
You could give it a try.

Zephonim
28th Jun 2003, 14:02
D@mn straight! I now offer my life blood as a trade for eternal life to any would be vampires out there but be warned i will rise and rule/destroy you all!!!!(except the mods i'll just take over their feeble minds and then free speach for all on the forums ):)
any takers?

Apocrypha Roxy
28th Jun 2003, 22:03
I'll bite. :D

Turel the King: I like your theory. Pretty damn interesting, when you think of it. Taking his clan and dragging his brother's children off to safety would sort of make sense - but then again, as Raziel said in SR2 when confronting his Sarafan brethren:

'... And here was my brother Turel, who along with Dumah would bear me into the Abyss. So dutiful and righteous, even as a vampire...'

Unless Turel played out a facade for a millenium, he'd never disobey Kain for the sake of his elder brother, because he was adamant in his belief in Kain's every act and deed, no matter what the cost. (total butt kisser, jah!) :p

It's got definate potential, though. Nothing in LoK is absolute, at all. Except that the Pillars need to be restored to turn Nosgoth from a dump back to it's former pristinity.

(Somehow, I don't think pristinity is a word, but you get my point...)

Kazael
29th Jun 2003, 01:53
Originally posted by Turel the King
PS: what part of Nosgoth are the Hinterlands?

Maybe it's like the Nether Regions. You know..... down there. The part that most people are too polite to talk about in public.

Anyway, I don't have any idea what Turel is up to myself, but you all have some interesting ideas. I'm looking forward to seeing him in Defiance. If indeed he makes an appearance.

Kazael
29th Jun 2003, 02:16
Originally posted by DJpick
Hinterlands has NOTHING to do with the Nether Regions if I remember correctly.

Relax, I was only being facetious (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=facetious)

someguysteve
29th Jun 2003, 02:32
As for Turel, is it just me, or did the 3 weakest ones (Melchiah, Zephon, and Rahab) stay loyal to Kain despite their decayed and devoloved forms (Rahab being the only one with a decent evolution), yet Razile, first born, evolved first, and Dumah spoke as if he was stronger than the master?

i think any loyalties were out of fear from Kain. As for Dumah, well in the game somewhere Raziel said that vampires' powers came from their soul's time in the spirit realm and as he has been there for however long he then gains the ability to run around people and do stuff like that, anyway he could be more powerful than Kain hence no fear. Turel i think recieved special treatment from Kain, saved from Raziel so that Turel could do blank in defiance (insert own imagination in place of blank)

Kazael
29th Jun 2003, 04:50
You raise an interesting point, DJ. How does a vampire know what his dark gifts are and how to use them? While I was thinking about this, I recalled Raziel's monologue during the SR1 intro. He says something like "Kain would enter the state of change, and emerge with a new Gift. Some time after the Master, our evolution would follow." Maybe, during that "state of change" Raziel mentions, the vampire has some sort of Vision or Dream, which reveals to them the nature of their new Gift, and how to use it.

The_Hylden
29th Jun 2003, 07:08
You can't judge a book by it's cover, the old cliché is very appropriate here. Yes, he didn't change that much physically, that tells me nothing of his actual evolution. What have his skills increased by? What in fact are his skills now? How has he differed in strength, speed, agility, etc.? Even magically, how have his powers increased, to what degree? I frankly, do not equate a great showing of evolution from Vorador's inhuman features. Janos is a different species, yet he remains more human like in facial and body features. Why should grotesque, or simply extreme changes in physiology designate evolution?

The_Hylden
29th Jun 2003, 07:21
I don't know, changing forms seemed to be an important thing in this series.

I'm not debating that, just pointing out that Kain could have evolved immensely, as I believe he has, without the drastic change.;)

The_Hylden
29th Jun 2003, 07:40
Well, I know what you mean, and I always attributed it to the fact that he was the true first born. The first necromantic vampire.

That's a very good point.:)

I also think that if we are talking physical change, it should be noted his marble-esque skin. It always made me think that his skin was stone-like. Extremely toughened. I think that's a pretty drastic change in and of itself. But, being first born and less .... susceptible, perhaps, and to devolve for reasons due to weakness. Both physically, or mentally, due to the rushed raising process of the Lieutenants. I think this may be in fact why Kain out of them all retains most of his original human features. Maybe Raziel would have been the exception, perhaps Kain gave the appropriate amount of his enrgy/soul to revive him that, besides the unknown reasons for the wings, Raziel may have been stable enough to evolve as Kain. Just throwing that last point out.:p It has no real bearing on this discussion, oh well.

The_Hylden
29th Jun 2003, 07:56
Yeah, where I came to this theory of sorts is the opinion that I believe Raziel was raised first. It makes sense. Kain needed him, he really didn't need the others, they were merely convenient and provided more ease for Kain's total rule while waiting for Raziel's change, and giving Raziel a sense of commonality. I doubt Kain could have kept Raziel in his favor for a Millennium by himself. No others to talk to, etc.

The_Hylden
29th Jun 2003, 08:21
Actually, in the opening FMV, one of the first things Raziel says is, "I am Raziel, first born, his lieutenants." I know he was first born, my theory is that he received the right amount of the gift, which is why he was so strong to survive the Abyss. Also, why he wouldn't have turned into such an ugly freak.

And, yeah, they were all one big happy family. Then the ratings went down and someone had to get bumped off. Raziel was asking too much money for his extenuated contract, so the producers, Moe inc. decided to cut him loose. The cast agreed, little did they know that the rat couldn't be killed!:D

The_Hylden
29th Jun 2003, 09:33
Kain couldn't survive the water, so why would his first born

I haven't seen Kain tossed into the Abyss so I couldn't agree on that one.;)

The_Hylden
29th Jun 2003, 10:20
Don't be silly, DJ.:p I know Raziel didn't really "survive" but he is still around and a unique being, unlike any other Vamp cast down onto the Abyss. Oh and Kain was much, much younger in both of your examples and thus, weaker, it still doesn't say for certain that Kain couldn't have survived/reimerged from the Abyss and not have been destroyed utterly. Remember, he is far stronger as the Millenniums pass by.;)

I would however love to see Kain sipping a margarita on a raft out in the Bahamas.:D It would be good for the tourist trade.;)

Riovanes
29th Jun 2003, 10:39
To go back to an older point in this thread: on the subject of how a vampire knows what its Dark Gifts are, and how to use them...

Anyone else here watch Animal Planet or the Discovery Channel? I myself admit a shameless addiction to The Crocodile Hunter, Emergency Vets, and a few other shows on Animal Planet. The point of that being this - if you've watched a few nature documentaries, you know that most animals seem to operate purely on instinct. Unlike humans, most animals do not teach each other how to do everything - giving birth, for instance, is something that a female animal has no advice on how to do - and yet, nine times out of ten she will perform her first birth with flawless expertise, despite having no previous experience or training.

In a similar vein (no pun intended here), perhaps vampires also have a sort of instinct that tells them about their Dark Gifts? After all, if it's something that gives them a predatory edge, or in any other way ensures their survival, then pure biological imperative alone should be more than enough to force them to understand how to use it. A chameleon, for instance, would be a very dead chameleon if it didn't instantaneously understand how to use its camouflaging abilities - maybe it's the same thing for the vampires.

I could be wrong, mind. I could just be some geek that watches animal shows constantly, and therefore thinks he knows something. But it makes sense in a way, doesn't it? I mean, you KNOW how to do certain things with your body, even if no one ever taught you - so why should it be any different for the vampires?

BAH!!!

Vampmaster
29th Jun 2003, 10:41
It seems the brothers are forced into some sort of trade off. As one aspect of them evolves (immunity to water, wall crawling etc) another (such as their physical appearance) devolves. The more of Kains soul they have, the cheaper the trade off and they get to stay more human in appearance while they evolve new abilities. It also seems that non Kainim vampires have less of a trade off since they don't have to share portions of a soul. So Vorador gets to evolve a lot of abilities without changing much on the outside.

Apocrypha Roxy
29th Jun 2003, 18:17
Maybe he was on a trippy and saw those cool energy bands...

Then when he got off his high, he found he could do the groovy energy band thing again.

The trippy made him smart, I guess. :p

I have a friend like that - he's really smart, but when he... uh... has a fragrant cig, he gets smarter. Then he does the crossword puzzle. :cool:

Apocrypha Roxy
29th Jun 2003, 19:42
Sure, he gets it right!

Riovanes
29th Jun 2003, 20:37
Not to be snottish, DJ, but I seriously doubt you can learn birth by watching - no amount of visual contact with a body will teach you the processes a body goes through in giving birth. True, the overall effect may be the same as relieving oneself in terms of muscular contractions, but the process is much more involved than the simple act of pushing - I really don't think the entire thing can be learned through visual input. Add to that the fact that an infant is not aware of its own birth - nor is it receptive to external stimuli in terms of processing for several hours - and most animals don't hang around long enough after birth to witness another litter - then I'm afraid the whole "learning by watching," deal is kind of out the window.

I will concede, however, that birth probably wasn't the best analogy. There are others - but they are not forum appropriate. Suffice it to say that some things are instinctual - and although use of Dark Gifts may not be, it is at least possible.

BAH!!!

Kazael
29th Jun 2003, 21:24
I could see most of the Dark Gifts being used out of instinct at first, then mastered through practice. But I just can't see that working for Dumah's constrict ability. You have to consider instinct vs. intellect. Even if Dumah were instinctively compelled to run a circle around his enemy, you'd think intellect would kick in and he'd think "What the hell am I doing? Why don't I just smack him around with my claws or something?"

someguysteve
29th Jun 2003, 23:08
i think after time they can choose their abilities, in the game it said vampires got 1 gift of the dark gods or something like that, but Kain enters the change thing and comes out with a new gift and the brothers managed to follow.


But I just can't see that working for Dumah's constrict ability. You have to consider instinct vs. intellect. Even if Dumah were instinctively compelled to run a circle around his enemy, you'd think intellect would kick in and he'd think "What the hell am I doing? Why don't I just smack him around with my claws or something?"

exactly, but if for some ungodly reason he thought it advantagous to have the ability to constrict something then he developes it on his own and then knows how to use it.

i don't think instinct explains it, think of poor Rahab staring at a puddle wondering why he has such an urge to jump in. He'd probable drown the first time unless he developed gills too at the start, the Rahabim have to fish him out with a long stick.

garbagefanuk
30th Jun 2003, 23:10
Originally posted by DJpick
Kain couldn't survive the water, so why would his first born :) [/B]


Actually i noticed something last nite on SR2, Kain can withstand water... In BO1 Kain can be hurt by rain (which was annoying when u were first born) yet in SR2 in the mountains in the 500 year since Kain's rejection at the pillars its pouring rain while he's talking to Raziel looking at the ruins of Janos's retreat and its not affecting him. He's simply talking to Raziel. :) Also each vampires evolution is different. Kain is a demigod vampire remember (as the new game says he is anyway ;) ) His magic and physical strength can be incredible but u don't need to look like melchiah to have it :) oki thats all really

Vampmaster
1st Jul 2003, 19:12
According to the blood fountain in BO1 "The rain will do you no harm. For our blood preserves!"

Also Kain experiances a dark gift first before his sons, but he only gets the ability and not the deformation that comes with it.

Apocrypha Roxy
2nd Jul 2003, 01:27
Maybe it was because Kain's a necromantic vampire, rather than the traditional 'bite' method?

It could be. You notice that Raziel, Dumah (for the most part) and Turel (possibly) retained their human aspects. We didn't have enough time to see what Raz would evolve into, but I doubt he would devolve. Of course, we never got the opportunity to solidify the argument.

Even more so, they were the strongest of the 6 - they got the best of Kain's soul, and the rest got slim pickings. Raz and Turel being stronger, though.

Or maybe it's just because he's Kain, Fate says he wouldn't devolve (just get a bit green), and the series wouldn't be as good if he were a fish or a bug, or some other wee beastie that isn't so wee. :)

I can't wait to see Turel... I'll have to, but I can't wait!

Apocrypha Roxy
2nd Jul 2003, 01:30
Originally posted by DJpick
Kain couldn't survive the water, so why would his first born :)

Perhaps Kain didn't get Rahab's 'gift' before Raziel's execution.

By saying Rahab's gift, I mean withstanding to water - not that Rahab got the gift first. Then there'd be no point to toss him into the Abyss. :rolleyes:

Umah Bloodomen
2nd Jul 2003, 01:40
I didn't actually see Kain joining a swim league anywhere in SR1, did you? There's no evidence to show when Kain actually received the full immunity to water. He had slight immunity to precipitation in BO1, (which I assume carried over into BO2 - but we didn't see it rain/snow, so it's speculative). As I've stated elsewhere, he may not have been able to physically evolve after a certain amount of time, but that doesn't mean his abilities couldn't. If his immunity had evolved, it was most likely after the resurrection of the Sarafan. (However I am sure it was evolved during the events of SR1). Even Rahab wasn't always immune to water, so that right there shows you that evolutionary changes in abilities occur over time.

someguysteve
2nd Jul 2003, 03:12
I don't think they chose their gifts though. Cause If I was one of them I'd just be like "Yeah, time to hibernate, and when I come out, I'll be invincible" They could have been a little more creative. I mean climbing? Talk about no imagination. I think they evolved their gifts.

they did essentially (try taking any boss on with a spear), but evolution takes a long time. Kain probably didn't evolve on the outside, because he saw no need to.

Melciah devolved because he was so weak, but besides him the brothers saw their changes as advantages. Zephon thought he was so cleaver turning the human weapon into his home/body, Rahab was quite well addapted (he couldn't stand light at all so why have legs), Dumah was a giant and that was before he was impaled for centuries, Turel could probably hear your thoughts with those ears, and Kain grew that forhead to cover his baldness. While they were changing Kain just evolved their powers and grew stronger, we know he has very powerful telekinetic powers like Turel.

Vorador is probable just the result of being a half breed. in all likelyhood vampires probably didn't have the luxery of taking 10 years of at a time to sleep, they would either be killed or being just made 10 years would be too long a time and they would probably enjoy their immortality and died before they got a chance to evolve.

Vampmaster
2nd Jul 2003, 18:40
Originally posted by DJpick
Which is what's interesting about Kain. He didn't evolve/change in form as much as even Vorador, yet he has TONS of gifts, spells, and immunities. All that has changed is his hands and feet, and then his cheeks and forehead. Makes you wonder :)

Another point is that Raziel didn't grow all giant and ugly(er) on consuming his brothers souls either. He only got the evolved ability and not the devolved form that came with it.

Dark God Francisco
2nd Jul 2003, 18:49
Originally posted by DJpick
in all likelyhood vampires probably didn't have the luxery of taking 10 years of at a time to sleep, they would either be killed or being just made 10 years would be too long a time and they would probably enjoy their immortality and died before they got a chance to evolve.
But with their human followers, they probably had protection. Plus, they said that their evolution followed Kains, so obviously they all didn't have one hibernetic slumber party. Someone was around to stand Guard. Plus with their fledglings, they had protection. And it never said the 6 hibernated at the same time.

orador is probable just the result of being a half breed.
Vorador strikes me as being more pure than the others, because he recieved the blood of an Ancient. While Kain and his sons were raised through necromancy. Vorador was truly given a gift, while Kain raised his sons against their will, and prevented their afterlife in the underworld.

I agree that when Kain and the six are evolving they have more than enough protection with their fanatical followers and fledglings and adults.

I also agree that Vorador is more pure than Kain and his sons.


Originally posted by Vampmaster
Another point is that Raziel didn't grow all giant and ugly(er) on consuming his brothers souls either. He only got the evolved ability and not the devolved form that came with it.

Remember the reason Vorador looks like he does is cause he has been around for an extreme longer time than Kain by my estimate he probaly has more 10,000 years or more and janos is older than Vorador. By comparison Kain is kid in age.

Vampmaster
2nd Jul 2003, 21:04
I didn't mention Vorador, but I agree with what you said.