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Cornbred9
5th Jun 2003, 18:58
There's not a video out, you've never played the game, you've only seen a few screenshots and already you're freaking out over a hud... please, isn't there far more to Deus Ex than the hud? Besides, it could be cool. We haven't seen it in action. And what really makes Deus Ex an incredible game is the plot driven story-line, innovated player freedom and sweet graphics. Bottom line, it's too early to be tearing it all down over a screenshot. Please...

VodunLoas
5th Jun 2003, 19:22
there are videos already out on the web, search for them. ;)

cball05
5th Jun 2003, 20:11
I agree with cornbred all the way. Even if the HUD is bad (and we don't really know if it will be) there is still plenty of the game to enjoy.

sean74
6th Jun 2003, 03:09
People are entitled to their opinions. You apparently don't care that the new hud is going to obstruct your peripheral view. Most people think it needs to change.

Will I still play the game with that new crappy HUD? maybe.. I guess... but I'd much sooner have those bastards GIVE ME A DECENT HUD! :)

Big Ragu
8th Jun 2003, 01:22
word

bonobp
19th Jun 2003, 23:41
Agree. People are whinig all the way about the game, "uh no, we don´t want biomods instead of skills, we don´t want no new hud, we don´t want faster pace, uh, the game is totally dumded down, this sucks, it´s all about money making nowadays, everyone knows that, no?"

this is ridiculous, most of the changes are fine. DX never was a RPG and shouldn´t be, it was all about story, characters, interaction, and innovations. It´s SUPPOSED to be accessible, and being accessible has nothing to do with being "dumbed down". Stop acting elitest, "I´m such a highly skilled hardcore-l33t-gamer-nerd, DX2 doesn´t suit my needs"...

btw. Half Life 2 totally rocks and will be a milestone in gaming, like HL1 was. Stop critizing action games simply because they are action games, that´s just stupid.

Random
20th Jun 2003, 00:05
I've seen some small shakycam videos from E3 with the new HUD -- and the first time I watched I never even took note of the HUD. I had to watch the video again specially to look at it; it didn't get in the way at all.

Having said that, I think it could and should be smaller on the PC version.

TheDerf
20th Jun 2003, 03:28
this is ridiculous, most of the changes are fine. DX never was a RPG and shouldn´t be, it was all about story, characters, interaction, and innovations. It´s SUPPOSED to be accessible, and being accessible has nothing to do with being "dumbed down". Stop acting elitest, "I´m such a highly skilled hardcore-l33t-gamer-nerd, DX2 doesn´t suit my needs"...

First off; you die.

Being that none of us have ever played the game, you cannot regard us, or our opinions as mistaken. There's nothing wrong with stating that the blue, circular, annoying, boxy, translucent HUD is a bad change, and you would not know if the changes are "fine" or not.

Why do we judge the screenshots? There's a huge F***ing blue thing blocking my whole view.
Why don't we want a faster game pace? That's one of the reasons Deus Ex was in a league of its own.
Why don't we want this game dumbed down? Figure that one out for yourself smart guy.

No one is debating about the accessibility of the "Deus Ex world" or whether or not Deus Ex was an RPG, but I'll start one anyway. There's less to access if you dumb down the game you doober, affecting it's accessibility.

...and we can criticize fps action games as much as we want, because they're all the same. "Shoot this guy, get the key, open the door, shoot more guys, pick up the ammo that you've convieniently emptied from a gun at the speed of light, progress to the next level." Now I'm not saying Deus Ex was not like this. After all, it is a shooter, but the main elements of a shooter happen in Deus Ex in a blown up, futuristic, and somewhat realistic fashion with many innovations.

NoNicknameForMe
20th Jun 2003, 03:53
Do I wan't the hud to be top and bottom, yes.
Do i give a fuc* if it is or isnt, no.


It will have an opacity slider, and you will be able to change its color, that should be enough for me to live with it. This isnt serious sam where there are 10,000 enemys flying across the screen. At most you'll probably have 2-4 enemys that probably are moving slowly or not moving at all. DX really dosen't require you to have utmost awareness of whats going on, its not a fast paced game. Even if you charged in with a GEP gun you still wouldnt have too many enemys to deal with. Why don't we all put that perspective on our opinions of something we havent even seen and stop acting like Chicken Little?

Uncle Ben's Rocket
20th Jun 2003, 04:57
Personally I dont give a rat's crap about the hud anymore. Old news. That was way back in.... May! I want my frieking DVD with movies and explosions so I have better reason to get this game which doesnt appear to be coming out(or working right). We're all here talking about a game that's not going to be out for another 3 months...or more so everyone should calm the *** down since I dont think anyone's opinion here has an effect on how the game turns out.

NoNicknameForMe
20th Jun 2003, 23:19
If you had anything to make an opinion on, it might be taken as valid, however...

mR.Waffles
20th Jun 2003, 23:23
I am sure the dev team would not put anything that would horribly obstruct game play. If it exists it must work.

NoNicknameForMe
20th Jun 2003, 23:39
Cute *******, nice sarcasim...


Lets destroy you with logic then.

Have you done the following to DX:IW: played, watched, viewed, talked to a dev about, or spent time on/with.


No, you've seen a handfull of screen shots, a shakey cam not worth the download, some year old IGN movies.

You complain that DX:IW is too much of a shooter, what part about, "we want players to experience DX:IW in what ever way they choose" do you not get, guy. Face it, the only reason half of you liked DX was you could sneak around and pretend to be leet, only that wasn't the point at all. The amazing thing about DX was compared to any game beforehand you could actualy choose your playstyle. That has only been expounded on in DX:IW, if you fail to see that then you should just quit while your ahead, joe.

Uncle Ben's Rocket
21st Jun 2003, 00:23
All flames..... Chill you freik! Or I might call you Mary!
Mary! Damn you Mary!

Loreleye
27th Jun 2003, 17:03
Dont criticise the criticisers! If you aint know for sure, you cant criticise them, since you dont know if they are right!!!

And that is impossible to argu whit!

NoNicknameForMe
27th Jun 2003, 17:35
Don't tell the critical of the critical they cant be critical of the critical, are you fascist...



:o

























:D

Loreleye
27th Jun 2003, 19:30
Im not fascist, Im God, and if you dont believe so, you just are ignorant, and you just dont think so, because it aint likely, but who can know?

Dont be so damn high on it please!

NoNicknameForMe
28th Jun 2003, 05:17
Originally posted by Loreleye
Im not fascist, Im God, and if you dont believe so, you just are ignorant, and you just dont think so, because it aint likely, but who can know?

Dont be so damn high on it please!


Are you mentaly handicapped?

Do you understand humor?

Why is your English so horriable?


:confused:

HippieHunter
28th Jun 2003, 08:52
Loreleye if you're God, then How much would could a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck would? and if that very same woodchuck turned into a hippie how long would it take me to hunt it down considering I haveb the hippie track version 6.0! And! How much power would I need to chuck that woodchuck turned hippie into space? See if you can answer that!!!!!!

Loreleye
28th Jun 2003, 08:56
Ok, first of all, my english ain perfect cuz I dont give a dam wether it is perfect, I want it to be understood. The real answer is also that Im from Norway, and believe me, If I wrote perfect Norwegian here, you would not understand a bit! So I say that it is better whit my a bit bad english!

Im not God, I dont believe in God. I just said that for fun, where is your sence of Humor?

HippieHunter
28th Jun 2003, 18:29
where's your sense of humor? anyone with a quarter of a brain could see easily that I was joking around.

crimson_stallion
11th Jul 2003, 06:43
Originally posted by TheDerf
First off; you die.

Being that none of us have ever played the game, you cannot regard us, or our opinions as mistaken. There's nothing wrong with stating that the blue, circular, annoying, boxy, translucent HUD is a bad change, and you would not know if the changes are "fine" or not.

Why do we judge the screenshots? There's a huge F***ing blue thing blocking my whole view.
Why don't we want a faster game pace? That's one of the reasons Deus Ex was in a league of its own.
Why don't we want this game dumbed down? Figure that one out for yourself smart guy.

No one is debating about the accessibility of the "Deus Ex world" or whether or not Deus Ex was an RPG, but I'll start one anyway. There's less to access if you dumb down the game you doober, affecting it's accessibility.

...and we can criticize fps action games as much as we want, because they're all the same. "Shoot this guy, get the key, open the door, shoot more guys, pick up the ammo that you've convieniently emptied from a gun at the speed of light, progress to the next level." Now I'm not saying Deus Ex was not like this. After all, it is a shooter, but the main elements of a shooter happen in Deus Ex in a blown up, futuristic, and somewhat realistic fashion with many innovations.

Yep, as well as teh fact that it the game was not an all otu shooter. It did not have that "shoot everything that moves" mentality necessarily. In some cases it was possible to finish a level without killing a single person (instead using the prod or tranks to knock them out). One thing i tried once was to slip through the first level without being noticed. I got through the entire level without being seen, and without killing or paralysing anyone. The only opint i couldnt do this at was on the roof jsut before the ladder that leads to the terrorist leader, because as you come up the stairs they are facing the opposite wall so you cant really slip by unnoticed. Still, i ran out and prodded them (just enough to stun them, not knock them out) and then ran up the stairs. Still i didnt knock out a single person. In most games such as halflife, it is practically impossible to take such an approach. Also, deus ex is very non-linear, in that you dont have to take any set approach. Games like half life often require you to shoto the bad guys, save the scientist so he can activate the retinal scanner to open the blast door, run out, shoot more bad guys. The deus ex approach to that situation would be more like:

1) sneak past the guards, talk to the scientist, get him to get to the retinal scanner and open the blast door.

2) shoot everything that moves, includign the scientics, take their items, read nearby datacube to get computer login info, access termnal, bypass retinal scanner to open blast doors.

3) sneak to a security terminal, hack the terminal, gain control of a massive crazy a$$ mech outside, use the mech to kill everyone enemie outside, enable teh inside turret to kill all enemies inside, use terminal to open blast door.

4) sneak aroudn the back and use the alternative entrance/exit by picking the lock on a secret door hidden behind a bunch of wooden crates.

This very broad spead or approaches is what made the game so great. It was not neccessarily possible to complete every sigle level without killing a person, or without being detected, or by running out and shooting everything, but generally you could take a particular approach and use it in most parts of the game. Some levels would require you to change tactics somewhat, at different points you would have to decide what skills to upgrade, what aug will serve you best based on the style of game you play, what weapon you should use that siencer upgrade on, etc. These things made it neccessary for you to really think, because you never know what will lurk aroudn teh corner, and you dont know which skill/aug/mod will serrve you best, because once you chose one there was no going back. Should i go for cloak or radar transparency? Do i want to hide from those mj12 troops, or those badass mechs...do i want to have crazy melee strength, or do i want to be able to lift heavy objects when i may need to..decisions decisions. Sometimes i wouldnt even upgrade, i would leave my points until i got to a situation where i needed a certain skill, because i was afraid or upgrading a skill /aug /weapon to find it was a mistake later.

Half life, was essentially a no brainer. Deus ex was quite the opposite. It was not unusual to start a level, get briefed, and sit there for a minute looking around figuring out what the best approach is. Scouting out with a sniper scope or binnoculars, to see where enemies are, etc. Should i take him out with my sniper rifle and use my limited ammo, or should i try my crossbow. If the target is too far away and i miss then he may raise the alarm.. but i may need that rifle ammo later...

There are times when you jsut feel like playing a game like half life and just shooting. Gettign that adrenaline rush. Other times you want to play a game like deus ex and think about things. In a nomal FPS, if you get killed, you have to perfect your accuracy, try a different weapon, move faster, etc. Perfect your moves. In a game like deus ex, if you get killed, you might jsut have to try a different enterance, different approach, different weapon, throw somthing as a diversion, quickly disable that camera/turret, look for a security panel, etc. The game had me realy involved with the characters. I WANTED to see what was going tohappen next. WHY paul would go to the other side. WILL paul survive inthe end, Will i get my kill switch disabled on time. Can i trust tracer tong? Is maggie chow really good or bad? Was joining with paul the right path... (not like there was a choice in that one). Half life had a good story, but it didnt involve you like that. You played half life to finish it. You played deus ex to learn more about the characters. It was like watching a movie.

vick1000
12th Jul 2003, 03:56
I acttually completed the entire first level with out bieng seen,
after quickloading in a few tight spots,of course.If you wait for
the guys at the top of the stairs to stop talking,they turn and
face away from you,allowing you to slip by unoticed.The hardest
part was freeing Gunther,I had to sneak up behind the guy at
the desk,after disabling the camera of course,and toss something
to distract him.Then I slipped around infront of the desk,and
hacked the door open,tossed something again,and slipped in
with Gunther.It was all meaningless however,because I gave
Gunther a pistol,and he immediatly dispatched everyone on the
lower floor.I even did it twice,and refused his offer for a weapon,
and he whipped out a combat knife,and proceeded to eviserate
the NSF baddies anyway.

JeffDenton
12th Jul 2003, 04:04
Agree. People are whinig all the way about the game, "uh no, we don´t want biomods instead of skills, we don´t want no new hud, we don´t want faster pace, uh, the game is totally dumded down, this sucks, it´s all about money making nowadays, everyone knows that, no?" this is ridiculous, most of the changes are fine. DX never was a RPG and shouldn´t be, it was all about story, characters, interaction, and innovations. It´s SUPPOSED to be accessible, and being accessible has nothing to do with being "dumbed down". Stop acting elitest, "I´m such a highly skilled hardcore-l33t-gamer-nerd, DX2 doesn´t suit my needs"...

btw. Half Life 2 totally rocks and will be a milestone in gaming, like HL1 was. Stop critizing action games simply because they are action games, that´s just stupid.

Ok, listen up. DX was certainly an RPG, as well as a FPS. Your thoughts on DX being about the story characters, interaction, innovation and accessible are true- but that is what an RPG IS!!!!!!! You need to have those slow parts and character editing to emphasize the intensity of the action- and the RPG factors give point and extra fun and options to the action. We're not being elitist either- we're just agreeing, as the majority too, that Deus Ex was a masterpiece and Deus Ex: Invisible War shouldn't change the balance of the elements of such a masterpiece. We are not disrespecting action games either. We prefer more than just action, that's all, but if we want action we still will play such games. Trust me; most of us here will buy HL2 anyway (that includes me)!

JeffDenton
12th Jul 2003, 04:08
Sorry, double post! Oh, yeah... PCGamer commented on the new HUD. They said that it was very useful in action and that you could grasp items quickly as you need them. And, as I played the game at E3 I discover that this is completely true. Have no fear, DX lovers! The HUD may actually be more useful than its predecessor!

vick1000
12th Jul 2003, 04:10
I agree,they should have only built upon the game,not taken
away aspects that seperated it from the rest of the FPS crap.
The HUD looks lame to me,hell I prefered playing with no HUD
at all on DX1.

JeffDenton
12th Jul 2003, 04:15
Well, we all like to play different ways. For those who like playing with HUDs, you shall not be disappointed. And thanks for agreeing with my previous statements. I like it when I find people who like things the same way I do! :)

bonobp
13th Jul 2003, 12:36
well, when I think of first person RPG, I think of Morrowind, which is a great game IMO. If you compare Deus Ex with Morrowind, the skill-system isn´t as good, Morrowind´s is WAY more complex and interactive and the game is overall WAY more non-linear.

Then why is Deus Ex as good (or even better?) as Morrowind? Because of the different ways you are able to deal with problems in-game are new and innovative. The developers used RPG-elements to make this possible, but not simply because they think RPG-elements in FPS are cool. This is why they now chose to drop the skill-system, but still kept the different ways to solve problems. There is no reason to complain because nothing has really changed... IMO DX isn´t a simple FPS/RPG-mix, but something like an "interactive movie" that doesn´t pick up RPG-elements, but elements from movies and the "real world" (and you usually don´t have points to invest in your skills in real life, no?) In fact, it does the same that HL2 or MOH does, but it approches things from a different direction...

thx for reading this useless analyses (-;

vick1000
13th Jul 2003, 22:44
Don't get me wrong,I love Morrowind,but I would much rather
play Deus Ex,if there was new levels and such.Because
Morrowind is quite possibly the buggiest Game of the Year
ever,I guess that says something about the game's innovation.
My point bieng,give me a good game engine first,and all
the non-linear gameplay second.

cball05
15th Jul 2003, 15:07
Originally posted by bonobp
(and you usually don´t have points to invest in your skills in real life, no?)

I agree that the point system was sort of unrealistic - for example, you enter a secret area and get points and then suddenly you have the ability to fire a rifle better. What would be really cool is if your skills could come from experience, like in real life - i.e. you get better at a gun by using it often, you get better at swimming by doing it often, and you get better at medicine by frequently talking to the doctors and using medkits. Of course, there are ways to abuse such a system (fire at a wall for an hour to build up skill) but with some tweaking it could work.