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Uncle Ben's Rocket
22nd May 2003, 07:47
Deus Ex, a game filled with forties, wine, designer labeled "zyme", drunken bums, crack whores, and the whole shabang. Not your typical sim. Does this at all worry gamers who are concerned at the very least about the decadence of society and all that good judgement and sobriety stands for?

Hubo
22nd May 2003, 10:38
Since when does Deus Ex promote drug use.I played the game to the end three times and you saw crack whores and drug-dealers but the game never promotes drug use. The game does tell us the more desperate people like the hotel manager in New York care more for JC then people like Morgan Everet or Stanton Dowd, the rich corperate Elite.

The fear of drugs created in computer games, telivision and politics, THAT I think is an arch-conservative way of abusing the American constitution. I am from the Netherlands (a country american politicians call a narco-state) and as you may know som e drugs are legal in my country. Yet the annual income of the average dutchman is much higher then that of the average American, and poverty has almost dissappeared because of government education and employment policies. The people in Deus Ex are not desperate because of zyme, but because of the lack of interest the government shows in them and the love the corrupt government seems to have for the corperate elite.

Oh yeah I can hear you now, a bloody European communist!!. Well I'm not, I am a liberal and I believe in freedom. True freedom for an individual to speak his mind on social an political issuis, and that includes drugs.

I am not saying I agree with the political opinion expressed in Deus Ex but I am grateful for the fact that the creators of deus ex had the guts to put such issues forward.

Ontrose
22nd May 2003, 16:46
Lol?

Uncle Ben's Rocket
22nd May 2003, 17:00
Pardon me for not taking into consideration the numerous socialist countries of Europe. In Cali, at least, drug problems are rampant. Not like anarchy but, pretty bad. We have gang wars and people die frequently. Average income is very low, especially now in America's less than favorable market value. Many of the guys I grew up with had messed up families. But concerning the game, which I still think is a good game(dont get me wrong), I think that the level of drug use possible takes the issue lightly. For example, booze gives you health points and takes you on a funky trip. There are no other sidefx. For me, I think this was a little out of taste. It added to the "sim" effect but in a rather superficial manner.

P.S. Europe is all right. I have nothing against socialists. ;)

daranz
22nd May 2003, 21:10
Um.. what socialist countries in Europe?:confused:

TheDerf
22nd May 2003, 21:12
There was nothing wrong with the drug use in Deus Ex. It is an M rated game now isn't it?

But even if someone who didn't understand drugs, or good shooting games for that matter, was playing Deus Ex and got high on Zyme while trying to kill a group of terrorists, he wouldn't be able to hit anybody anyway. So what Deus Ex is promoting is "Don't do drugs, because you'll have a hard time killin people."

daranz
22nd May 2003, 21:27
Anyway...

DX doesn't promote drugs, IMO. It shows us a futuristic vision of the world, where many people are destroyed by drugs (like all the junkies). I don't understand how the presence of junkies in DX can promote the use of drugs... Ofcourse, you can use drugs in the game, but you can also use cigarettes, that don't do anything besides damaging you.

Diesel(can)
23rd May 2003, 01:35
I agree with daranz i thought the hole drugs and junkies etc. stuff added realism into the game. That drugs and etc. problem will always be there in the future

Zero
23rd May 2003, 20:32
Good Lord, I hope Uncle Ben's joking.

Really, the junkies added to the atmosphere. Would it have been more realistic if the subways and streets were full of businessmen and women talking on their cell phones and chatting about the latest trends in the weather during the depression taking place throughout the game?

Sparhawk
23rd May 2003, 23:28
it's a cyberpunk setting, and DX has it's view on it how it should look like... and that's our playgarden...
does it promote drugs... nah, and the ppl playing games like this are not a target either i think and are not looking for drugs etc etc...
Never did i see or hear in the game that drugs were good or you have a great life when you do drugs...
for the ones that don't like to see all these stuff in the game, buy it, don't play it !! ;)

Uncle Ben's Rocket
24th May 2003, 06:37
I asked this question mainly because i am thinking a little about the next game. In the first game you would typically have to try everything to get the whole "real world" experience. Thus i was a bit surprised when the option of taking narcotics became available without real fx. Obviously, anybody curious enough to play the game might not be worried to use drugs, in the game, and some might not get the right impression about the game and or drugs. What I had a problem with was the trivialization of drug use. If the game were to be more realistic, drugs should have greater side fx and hurt Alex if he/she takes too much of something. Somewhere closer to a hangover after too many drinks or paralysis if od-ing on designer drugs and street crank. Drugs might actually work like alternatives to biomods, intense boosts of energy followed by drops. And of course, drugs should cost a crapload, depending on what types you use. It wouldn't be a bad idea if Denton grew an addiction and experienced withdrawal after a few days or hours without another fix, forcing players to address a problem and waste more cash. :)

To Zero: Why not have a few techno capitalists walk around? There were journalists, druglords, bums, and terrorists. Wouldn't it be reasonable to see a few day traders and complete the whole diverse atmosphere. But instead of talking about the prada and gucci they talk about underground tech and abuse the right to trade vital food resources that populations need. Just an idea.

In a nutshell, I have nothing against DX attempts for realism, it however was flawed. If they are going to put drugs in the game, make them have significant effects, so that choosing to use them may be in better taste and affect the gamer's decisions and responsibilites.:cool: :cool:

Zero
24th May 2003, 17:22
Meh. In Deus Ex, JC could metabolize the drugs fast enough that they didn't have long-lasting effects on him, although if you'll notice he did lose ten points of health when he smoked cigarettes: anti-drug reinforcement right there. Besides, ever look at the junkies who didn't have the benefit of nano-augmented metabolisms? They don't exactly look too comfortable or happy. As a matter of fact, they look downright miserable as a result of their drug habit. I think that that should do fine for those few people who can't tell a game from reality and might otherwise use drugs at the urging of a game they played (see how lame that sounds? Oh, my son's crack habit isn't caused by me neglecting him or his dad getting drunk and beating the **** out of him on a regular basis. No sir, it's caused by that damn game).

Uncle Ben's Rocket
24th May 2003, 20:32
I’m not saying that Deus Ex will definitely cause anybody to start drugs, but it certainly doesn’t do a good job educating people!
The dad beats the kid after cooping him up all day while he is alone with his computer. He plays DX and says, if JC does it, it might not be all that bad . Then he goes to school and kills everyone cuz everyone makes fun of him and his dad beats him and he blazes and plays DX.
No sir, it's caused by that damn game
Pretty bleak.
Back to reality. So crackwhores were miserable and smoking took a few points off your health. Denton could take 2 packs of smokes, a few sodas and a forty and he's back to where he started in a few seconds. Good jerb. But the realism should be evenly balanced. Saying JC's or Alex'S metabolism was high enough to bypass drug inflicted ailments doesn’t take into account the fact that drugs can do more than screw up their digestive systems. For the sake of the game and Denton would probably not get cancer, but there could be symptoms that would only accrue with the high metabolism you speak of. Heart problems would be one example. The only thing I could think of that could fix that would be Denton's regeneration augmentation. What else could mess up Denton? Well maybe some of these narcotics JC, or Alex, takes interfere with the electrical synapses of cerebral cortex. This would affect mood or maybe even motor functions. (Scenario a: Denton finds zyme in crack house, goes to bar, takes zyme, spazes, falls over unconscious, wakes up mugged and beaten, and is unable to walk.)

daranz
24th May 2003, 20:39
Denton can use a small medkit to heal himself instantly... And he will also heal right after eating something... it's only logical that drugs won't have a lasting effect on him. If you had a long term effects of drug use, you would need long term effects of bullet wounds, etc.

Phronesis
27th May 2003, 14:06
I'm sorry to say but anyone who uses drugs based on the influence of a game that is centered so far from reality is doing us a favor by clearing their genes from the gene pool. Anyone so easily influenced shouldn't be doing anything other than sitting in a padded cell completely sheltered from the rest of the world. Honestly, its about time people started taking responsibility for their actions and stop blaming things on society at large or the media. Society sucks… yes… but half the reason it does is because people are too ready to blame anything but themselves. Someone uses drugs because they make the choice to, not because a game tells them to. If you’re going to argue that a kid might be easily persuaded to take drugs and shoot people, maybe our focus should be on not letting the kid play the game rather than the game itself. Or perhaps we can look at the parents who are buying the game or letting the kid play a game they really shouldn’t be. Rather than passing the bill on blame, maybe we should improve the parenting skills of this country.

brilliantcombat5
27th May 2003, 17:54
Um i believe Sweden is socialist, on eof the scandanavian countries.

america is great because we have total freedom, freedom with religion, and free enterprise. the more the govt comes in and tried to employ people and get them off the streets it only patches the problem. United States busts thwem puts them in jail and tries to rehab them. In California anyone from europe would be running scared and Im on the east coast.

All in all DX was great and the drug use added to the game. If only you could make the drugs and sell them a la Morrowind. Lets wait and see for DX2

NoNicknameForMe
29th May 2003, 23:31
A game that let you kill children then rape there corpses wouldnt be in violation of anything since it is all fantasy, and therefore not bound by morals.



Then agian there are some real idiots in the world so i'm fairly glad there isn't a game that lets you do this.

daranz
30th May 2003, 14:04
Originally posted by brilliantcombat5
Um i believe Sweden is socialist, on eof the scandanavian countries.


NEWSFLASH: There are no socialist countries in Europe! Sweden is a constitutional monarchy...

Stormraven
31st May 2003, 03:36
Some of us are definetely too heavily influenced on the media we see/play.

wait. i saw the same argument in a Time Magazine (Canadian edition:p ) article. let me find it

crap it's buried under a ton of identical red-bordered Time Magazine issues.


Neways, just because James Bond flies around in small flying-skateboardy things, drives cars amazingly fast, blows stuff up in every movie, and casually kills people for a living, doesn't mean that people watching the movie will suddenly feel an undenying urge to join the MI6, buy Austin Martin Vanquishes, skydive on skateboard-with-wings-contraptions, and blow stuff up with home-made explosives. Not to mention killing people in every single way imaginable.

You anti-drug guys are to vigilant. The game is rated mature. and the ESRB does not recognize DX in having oppressive messages about drugs/alcohol. else it would have been banned in some stores, like GTA 3

sean74
31st May 2003, 13:42
D.A.R.E. = Drugs Are Really Expensive.

Honestly I don't think this is an issue at all. Taking drugs had a negative effect on JC Denton when he took them, I don't know what else you could ask? They woulda made it take longer, but then if you took drugs you'd be screwed and have to restart the game from a previous save. Who wants to wait out an 8 hour acid-trip in real time in a FPS?

If you want to get all up in arms over a game's portrayal of drug use, go post on the forums for Postal 2. You smoke a pot-pipe to gain back lost health in that game!

Leo
1st Jun 2003, 13:35
Smoking seriously damages your health.

It is totally true, DX showed me how dangerous they [cigarettes] are. This may be off topic but I was really low on health and decided to pop some smoke and JC died, like, I really laughed afterwards :)

Le`Sauveur`De`Ces`Dames
3rd Jun 2003, 15:39
I agree with Sparhawk, DX shows a cyberpunk world, so the drug is a part of the decadence in the world. But again, the decadence of the world IS PART of the cyberpunk movement (read Neuromancer, by William Gibson, for example, or Isolation, by Greg Egan). this has nothing to do with promoting drugs. it's just an acknoledgment, I think.

(and btw, there ARE some countries with socialist governments in Europe, it's not the same as Communist, and even if "socialist" is not in the name of the country, they are still socialist countries)

DarkForge
3rd Jun 2003, 20:10
The storyline for FPS "Sin" became involved with the drug/chemical called U4, but in no way did it promote drug usage.

Granted, "Deus Ex" leans on the subject more heavily, but it's not promoting drugs. It's just trying to make the world realistic. Just realistic.

Nothing more. Nothing less.

NoNicknameForMe
3rd Jun 2003, 20:13
The game is all about drugs. DX that is. If your not looking for this "ambrosia" your hunting it down or collecting it. Millions are addicted to it, to the point that there is a government conspiracy to keep those in charge from going into withdrawal. DUH!


/making fun of Uncleben

Big Ragu
8th Jun 2003, 18:59
Who cares. I'm pretty sure all the little kids that play this game arn't gonna go hunt for green drugs to take or look for some zyme.

ikkyo
13th Jun 2003, 00:12
I always thought DX was meant to be doing the whole dystopian future thing and like and lot of people are saying, its part of the territory.

People are always blaming various media formats for corrupting the young. Its nothing new. And its a bit of a cop out. Credit where credit is due, its society as a whole that puts the right person with the wrong friends in the wrong situation.

Did anyone watch "Trainspotting" and think "Hey, heroin seems like a good lifestyle choice..."?

Phew. I'll be quiet now.
:)

sean74
13th Jun 2003, 02:30
Originally posted by ikkyo

Did anyone watch "Trainspotting" and think "Hey, heroin seems like a good lifestyle choice..."?


EXCELLENT POINT!

The whole part where he went diving in the toilet for that suppository was absolutely the grossest and saddest thing I've seen in recent memory. Anything that would be such a strong motivator as to make someone reach their hand into an unflushed toilet that they just took a (expletive deleted) in just CAN NOT be healthy :P

Leo
13th Jun 2003, 13:02
DX promotes killing not drugs

sure, if there would be more of those litle amrosia vials in the game, if JC had a secondary goal to heal some of the ppl, maybe then, but who said ambrosia is a drug :confused:

Recall Paris, there was that guy who wanted to acctually buy zyme, man, if I knew this earlier I would save some zyme from the drug dealer in the Brooklyn bridge station [yeah, i sniped him to get that LAM]


_______
no consoles, they pollute PC games and delay the release date

ikkyo
13th Jun 2003, 19:26
Good choice (I sold him the drugs... I guess that says something:D )

Its nice to have the chance to do something like that, the option to sell some scumbag drugs or shoot him...

I thought the whole point of that kind of part of the game was so you could choose. Its up to you. Hope theres more of that in DX2.

Bit of an aside, but isn't the "illuminati" ending where after slaughtering masses of "baddies" you become a coporate whore a little more depressing that the option to get wasted...?

I know it made me feel a little uneasy.

Catman
13th Jun 2003, 19:40
Gee, I usually sell him the drugs, tranq him and his large friend, and leave them in the bakery for the Sicilians to find in the morning. As for the drugs, I dump them in the ocean.

vick1000
18th Jun 2003, 10:43
It's a programmer's depiction of a futuristic society,if drugs were
not present,it would lose alot of realism.I think it's ingenious
that they give you a choice,like in real life,on how you approach
the drug use.You can pretend to be a user,dealer,or vigilanty
cleansing the world of both of the prior two.If anyone thinks
that the GAME is detrimental,or otherwise damaging,then they
don't meet the age requirements for the GAME mentally(17+).

BTW: Are not Britian and France socialist?It seems my knowledge
of politics and econmics has left me,is socialism an economic
system,or is communism the economic one?

Le`Sauveur`De`Ces`Dames
18th Jun 2003, 12:27
neither socialism nor communism are more than word, for they are not applied by the governments that call themself socilaist or communist.

france is actually not socialist, (since the 05/2002 elections), and britain has a "liberal-socialist" government, I think)

back to the topic,

I tried almomst every possibilities concerning drugs, from user to seller to vigilante (in the game, I mean), the result is often the same, with a few more bullets in your inventory, and a few less credits if you kill the bad guys (choose your bad guys). no hang over, no consequences. You have the choice, but it doesn't influence the game.

I hope we have at least the same number of choices in DX:IW, but as someone said at the beginning of this script, I would like our choices to have consequences, on the world and/or on our character.

Leo
18th Jun 2003, 13:16
for example?! I do not get ur idea, could u explain ... how can drug sell or anything else "small time" affect the story ine .. maybe some little dialogues or sidemissions, but not the main story! sorry, if I am wrong in anyway, in life I am not mean

Le`Sauveur`De`Ces`Dames
18th Jun 2003, 13:25
I was more thinking about side effects when you USE drug, but you could also miss some informations if you sold some guy a zyme, and he isn't able to answer your questions after that (Or, he could be more willing to help you later, cause you sold him some. It wouldn't be moral, but realist, I am NOT discussing moral issues here, just gameplay). wouldn't change the world, but it could change the game

ikkyo
18th Jun 2003, 13:31
Ahahahahahahahahahaha:D

Oh God I laughed so hard I think I coughed up my spine! Just to clear this one up, the ruling party is Labour. Now a long, long time ago in a galaxy far, far away Labour once stood for the little man, the under-privileged and generally everyone gets to a "have" rather than "a have not" (incidently our NHS was a labour concept, so I can see why you might be confused).

However in the real world they are just out to f@ck us all over, not listen to the people of the uk and make sure the rich get richer and and the poor, well you get my point...

Anyway sorry for the rant, its just politics makes that vein on my head throb and the terrible headaches start :)

note: these are just my opinions so don't sue me!

Foten
18th Jun 2003, 14:08
Oh yeah I can hear you now, a bloody European communist!!


Just so u know to be a communist is not bad it was just the leaders that used it in a bad way. The communist thinking is that everybody should have the same incom and stuff like that.
(Dont make fun of me for my english, i suck at my own languish to.)

Leo
18th Jun 2003, 14:08
oh yeah, like, I remember now, and i get wht u mean.

do u remember that guy from Hells Kitchen, if u saved the guy he told u the password "underworld" .. Curly later in the game gave u the code needed to open a passageway to Brookly Bridge station .. yeah, the code is M-O-L-E, that is 6653. Playing the second time I ignored the guys and just used the code,

but

why do u want to have a lot of such options? well, yeah, can be fun, but if every civilian, .. no, wait, secret dealers, sidemissions, do what u want, follow the illegal dealers orders or do a police a favour .. man, could improve the game, interesting stuff,

anyway, I do not think it would be fun if u had to talk to everybody to just complete the mission the most easy way, I dunno .. if u could argument

Le`Sauveur`De`Ces`Dames
18th Jun 2003, 14:25
I didn't mean you have to talk to everybody
And you don't either have to give that guy a zyme (still following my example), there can be other ways (if you didn't have the MOLE password, you could always hack the numpad). What I mean is the fact you act a certain way or another SHOULD change the game.

But this was just an example, and the more interessing fact was in my opinion the fact that if Denton USES drugs, it doesn't imply in DX1 anything else than a few problems to walk for a few seconds(if you see how drug addicts are depicted in the game, one would be entitled to think Zyme does have a more longlasting effect), and that after you give a bum a vial of zyme, he just goes on walking around as if nothing has happened, even though he is supposed to have just had a shot

Leo
18th Jun 2003, 14:32
may sound silly, but how can u give a civilian zyme or other items?

Le`Sauveur`De`Ces`Dames
18th Jun 2003, 14:52
you just talk to them

remember, in the subway station, the sick boy who has a LAM and wants a zyme?

while talking to him, you can choose at one point to give him the zyme or not. if you chose to give him, the game displays "item lost : Zyme", and you have one less in your inventory

TheDerf
18th Jun 2003, 18:53
I think the people at Ion Storm need to let us use the drugs they put in the game in a better fashion. Instead of drinking a 40, why not smash it over someone's head or lodge it in a terrorist's esophogus? We should be able to buy large quantities of Zyme, concentrate it, liquify it, and inject it in someone's neck to make that person OD almost instantly. I think that will further promote the message they were using all along, "Drugs are bad."

There's some pretty sick, twisted stuff that I'd rather do with my drugs than use 'em and I've mentioned a few. I'd want to shove a full, burning pack of cigarettes into someone's mouth and wrap their head with duct tape, except for their nose. That right there is positive anti-drug reinforcement in action. Another use for zyme would be sort of a combat blinding powder. You throw it in someone's face and... their eyes boil up and start bleeding... and they die of shock. I'm a freakin genius.

I hope that wasn't too graphic.

Catman
18th Jun 2003, 20:32
Originally posted by TheDerf
I hope that wasn't too graphic.Let's just say that you frighten Joe Liberman. http://www1.iastate.edu/~wsthune/cps/ted/tedflee.gif

Leo
19th Jun 2003, 06:21
really,

I prefer weapons instead of drugs .. the charger and crossbow work nice, though charger is the best

yeah, like it is riot prod :)

I use charger to identify the impact hammer from Unreal, kinda like the word .. charge, charger, get charged [down]

FrogBlastTheVentcore
28th Jun 2003, 05:27
I asked this question mainly because i am thinking a little about the next game. In the first game you would typically have to try everything to get the whole "real world" experience. Thus i was a bit surprised when the option of taking narcotics became available without real fx. Obviously, anybody curious enough to play the game might not be worried to use drugs, in the game, and some might not get the right impression about the game and or drugs. What I had a problem with was the trivialization of drug use. If the game were to be more realistic, drugs should have greater side fx and hurt Alex if he/she takes too much of something. Somewhere closer to a hangover after too many drinks or paralysis if od-ing on designer drugs and street crank. Drugs might actually work like alternatives to biomods, intense boosts of energy followed by drops. And of course, drugs should cost a crapload, depending on what types you use. It wouldn't be a bad idea if Denton grew an addiction and experienced withdrawal after a few days or hours without another fix, forcing players to address a problem and waste more cash.

Wow, you sure have put a lot of thought into this. I was going to debate some of the stuff you said, but something tells me you would have an answer to anything I might say. I'm not insulting you or anything, but, again, wow. This is a realistic GAME. not a LIFE SIMULATOR.

HippieHunter
28th Jun 2003, 08:38
That damn game got me hooked onto Zyme! Now I'm drinkin fortyies all day everyday! This is what the liberals think games will do to people lol. And the Hippies are in on the conspiracy too, they want all games to be destroyed we can't let that happen!

lol, it's been fun all, cya.

Spock
28th Jun 2003, 15:47
"First amendment privelage"? The bill of rights guarantees freedoms, not privelages!

dirigimaster
29th Jun 2003, 19:45
With ya 100%,

DX1 made me a Zyme adict... I'm still hooked... I can't sleep at night and I smell bad...

NoNicknameForMe
29th Jun 2003, 19:53
I'm up to 1,000 dollars a day Zyme habit, but i'm Heart Attack or Bust!

Icarus
30th Jun 2003, 20:12
Originally posted by dirigimaster
With ya 100%,

DX1 made me a Zyme adict... I'm still hooked... I can't sleep at night and I smell bad...



I do not believe zyme made you smell bad, you were like that before.;)

operative x
2nd Jul 2003, 05:33
My god its just a game RELAX already. I dont know about you guys but i had fun with the idea of geting drunk and high. I pulled a scarface(the movie with Al Pocino) and took lots of zyme and beer in the devils kitchen bar and blasted everyone with my machine gun lol it was so funny!!

WSimons
2nd Jul 2003, 07:27
Strangely enough, I've never see that movie.

mikepayne666
8th Jul 2003, 01:35
Originally posted by Uncle Ben's Rocket
Deus Ex, a game filled with forties, wine, designer labeled "zyme", drunken bums, crack whores, and the whole shabang. Not your typical sim. Does this at all worry gamers who are concerned at the very least about the decadence of society and all that good judgement and sobriety stands for?

dude STFU if you think this game promotes drug use (which it doesnt) take a look at postal 2 (which it doesnt) but you can smoke crack, and how it doesnt promote it in postal 2 is cause a while after you smoke it it hurts you, and i think its the same w/ that zyme stuff in DX

Big Ragu
8th Jul 2003, 01:46
Come on, in practicially every game now you kill people. Kill lots of people. Just kill for the heck of it. What is worst, go out and shoot someone or drink a forty. Hopefully you said killing someone is worst, but does does killing in a game cause kids to do it in real life? NO!

How can anyone say this stuff causes drug use or violence? For every kid that goes and kills, that also owns a violent videogame, threre are millions more kids that don't. So how can it cause it? It dosn't.

And I'm sure all the kids that go home from after school and smoke pot don't do it because they saw a videogame character do it. Come on.

It almost always goes down to the parents. If the kids have parents that instill good values in their kids, the kids will reflect that. If the parents beat the kids and neglect them, then the kids are most likely grow up hating life.

mikepayne666
8th Jul 2003, 01:51
i totally agree, everyone always says what movies were they watchin, what games were they playing, what music were they listen to, well **** them, what was hitler playing in his PS2?!?!? was he bangin his head sum slipknot?!?! what was his favorite movie?!?!? how retarted can these people get!!!

Loreleye
9th Jul 2003, 15:03
Folks, I could not read all the threads cuz them are boring boring, come up whit something original.

Im from norway, and I must say that is USA is such a good country, why have to amercan said, Look to Norway, and their democracy?
Norway have also been the best country to live in, well UN says so! Why aint that USA?
Norway is a rich country, whit lots of water. clean energy, and not too crowded, just 4.5 million or so! No drugs besides smoke tobacco, and alcohol is alowed, but I feel good! If the drug policy in netherland where so good, why isnt that the best land to live in? Which UN said Norway is?

Ok, drugs in Deus ex, is either realism, or surrealism, neither educational, I hate that term, Educational. I think that the reason for why people start of whit drugs is cuz it is fun in the beginning, and not in the end, but the only way to stop drugs is to let it be a norm that it aint good to do, not only a public norm, but also in all the private communitites! That is it!!!!

Loreleye
9th Jul 2003, 15:05
Correction, I must say, If USA is such a good country, never ment to say that USA is such a good country!

Foten
13th Jul 2003, 20:28
Originally posted by Loreleye

No drugs besides smoke tobacco, and alcohol is alowed.

Hmm... Y r ppl allowed too sell and use drugs on the streets in Oslo then, if it´s not allowed?

sirus
13th Jul 2003, 22:20
killing children and raping corpses.... Sign me up!!!
(actually i think there saving that for thief 3)

and on a little more serious note i think it would be cool to slip some zyme into your enemys coffee and when he falls over run up and cattle prod him in..... well his "parts"!

ps. this poll is biased you should be able to vote no and not be in favor of legalizing anything.

vick1000
13th Jul 2003, 22:25
Originally posted by Loreleye
....Im from norway, and I must say that is USA is such a good country, why have to amercan said, Look to Norway, and their democracy?
Norway have also been the best country to live in, well UN says so! Why aint that USA?
Norway is a rich country, whit lots of water. clean energy, and not too crowded, just 4.5 million or so! No drugs besides smoke tobacco, and alcohol is alowed, but I feel good! If the drug policy in netherland where so good, why isnt that the best land to live in? Which UN said Norway is?....

Ohhhhhhh......the UN said it was the best
place to live,I gotta move there now.:rolleyes:

Fire_Power
13th Jul 2003, 22:26
Why do people keep saying the game is rated M?

Loreleye
14th Jul 2003, 21:16
I dont know!

crimson_stallion
15th Jul 2003, 02:25
I also thing deus ex does NOT promote drug use. When you drink forty's, the health it gives u is close to nothing, and the fuzz effect if disasterous if you are in any type of combat. You cant see, shoot or walk properly, and cant generally do anything. I don't see how this promotes drug use.

Secondly, I think it isa persons choice whether or not they decide to take drugs. I'm 19, most of my freinds have tried drugs of some form (not just tabacco, alcahol and nicotine either). I have watched all the movies, american gangster movies, played games with drugs, had friends trying them, but never in my life have I even considered it. If the movies, music and games did not talk about drugs, it would make no difference whatsoever. Most people who try or do drugs, would try/do them either way regardless of whether they see it 'promoted' in media.

A good example is smokign in deus ex. If you smoke, it actually damages you, and you lose health. This is definately giving the message "smokign is harmful".

Secondly, alcahol is not a particularly harmful drug if use properly. To have one or two beers wone hurt anyone (unless its a baby or someone allergic to alcahol) and thus there is no reason to have it as a bad effect int he game. As another person mentioned it IS rated MA15. Most people have tried alcahol of some sort before the age or 10 or 12 i would say (i.e. a bit of light beer, wine, etc) so its hardly a problem. If you start to drink alot in deus ex the effects are terrible, and you basicaly wobble around, cant walk straight, cant see anything or do anything. This to me is a way of telling people "too much alcahol can be a bad thing" rather then promoting it.

The zyme in the game has a similar effect if i remember correctly. At no point does JC drink and then drive, nor does smoking, drinking or taking drugs become a neccessary or important part in the game at ANY time. It is simply a possibility that the player CAN try if they really want to. Whether they do has no significance to the game itself.

The fact that the game includes cigarettes, drugs and alcahol is for realism. The world is set in a great depression where epedemics are all over the world, and causing general terror, bad health, and death everywhere. It is a given that drugs would oplay a big part in suh a society, because many people in such a reality would take drugs to get over depression or pain. I really get sick of all the people who say violence, drugs, swearing, etc in media (i.e. music, games, movies) is bad for society and should be cencored.

The fact is that in the real world these things DO exist. If children know about them, and know they are dangerous and bad, they may not take them. If they don't even know they exist, and are offered them, with no knowledge or what effect they may have, then will they honestly NOT try them? My parents always brough us up and told us at an early age that these thigns are bad, and not to try them. Other parents dont want their children exposed to the concepts, and thus dont tell them about them. They dont let them play the games that have them, listen to the music, or watch the movies. When (in the real world) they are one day offered these things, they have no idea what they can do to you, they dont know that they are bad, and get curious about what it might be like, so they try them.

IMHO, hiding these things from society is the worst thing we can do. Many movies portray characters beign killed over drugs, or as a result of drugs, or ruining their lives over drug use. Games portray these drugs as bad in teh way they effect you. IMO this is the best wat to make the youths avoid drug use. Don't hide it from them, show them the dangers it can bring and let them make the choice. If they see the dangers and try it anyway, then they would sure as hell try them without knowing these dangers.

Why do you think they have those drink driving ads on TV where they show people drinkin, diving off, and usually having an accident. A person dies, and the driver is put in prison, and has to live knowing they killed their freind etc. They do this because showing something as a negative thing, has a stronger effect then not showing it at all. Thats my personal opinion. Lat3r!

crimson_stallion
15th Jul 2003, 02:38
Originally posted by Uncle Ben's Rocket
I’m not saying that Deus Ex will definitely cause anybody to start drugs, but it certainly doesn’t do a good job educating people!
The dad beats the kid after cooping him up all day while he is alone with his computer. He plays DX and says, if JC does it, it might not be all that bad . Then he goes to school and kills everyone cuz everyone makes fun of him and his dad beats him and he blazes and plays DX.
Pretty bleak.
Back to reality. So crackwhores were miserable and smoking took a few points off your health. Denton could take 2 packs of smokes, a few sodas and a forty and he's back to where he started in a few seconds. Good jerb. But the realism should be evenly balanced. Saying JC's or Alex'S metabolism was high enough to bypass drug inflicted ailments doesn’t take into account the fact that drugs can do more than screw up their digestive systems. For the sake of the game and Denton would probably not get cancer, but there could be symptoms that would only accrue with the high metabolism you speak of. Heart problems would be one example. The only thing I could think of that could fix that would be Denton's regeneration augmentation. What else could mess up Denton? Well maybe some of these narcotics JC, or Alex, takes interfere with the electrical synapses of cerebral cortex. This would affect mood or maybe even motor functions. (Scenario a: Denton finds zyme in crack house, goes to bar, takes zyme, spazes, falls over unconscious, wakes up mugged and beaten, and is unable to walk.)

Now we are blaming scholl killings on people who play games? I say again, games have no effect. As another person here said, if you are unstable enough to be influenced by a game in that way, you are better off dead. Any person like that is a danger to society, and if games didnt do it, then tension would, or hearign about the guy that got killed on the evening news, or listening to stories told by your friends at school, etc. The list goes on. Games are not responsible for these behaviours.

Personally, I don't think any intelligent people think they are, even those who go waving statistics. You see, the fact is that people do go crazy, go on shooting sprees for no apparent reason, thenk kill themsleves. It happens. Governments cant control or stop it, no one can. People will complain to the government asking why they cant do somethign about it, and they will have no answer, so what do they do? find a target to blame it on. Every act needs to be blamed on someone, otherwise people start looking for WHO to blame it on. People blame it on media, games, music and movies, because they CAN. They don't have any other answers or solutions, so they blame these mediums to shut up the population. People in generally want an answer. They don't care if its the right answer, as long as it is AN answer. So that is what they are given.

One crazy kid, goes into his/her school, with a gun, and kills 10 people. First time ever it has happened in howmany hundreds of years. It goes all over the news. It's on the radio, on the tv, and generally anywhere else you can imagine. Other crazy kids think "wow if he did that theres no reason why i cant" so other craazy kid does same. Again its all over the news.

People realise this happens, they know that news is the best publicity for anything, and they know that it is here where more people will hear about it then anywhere else. BUT of coruse, you cannot ban the news. You cannot censor the news by only saying the NICE news. So what do they do? They turn to a medium where they can. Movies, music and games all get the blame, because something has to. REality is these things happen, and they always will. Entertainment has nothign to do with it.

HippieHunter
15th Jul 2003, 03:55
So UN said Norway was the best country to live in? Well, that's because they are jealous of the United States not to mention that they are complete PANZIES!!!!!!!!! Plus we would be a richer country if we weren't giving money away to countries that need help (or spending it on our powerful military). And about the whole violence and drug use making kids kill and ****, that is all bull**** coming from the democrats who are against violent games in the first place because they are PANZIES!!!! If the UN or the Democrats were anymore panzyish they would be hippies!

Icarus
15th Jul 2003, 05:39
The UN is run by a secret organization called MJ12... you'll believe me YOU WILL!

crimson_stallion
15th Jul 2003, 05:55
You see those black helicopters.....

HippieHunter
15th Jul 2003, 06:33
Exactly Mr. Icarus, you are correct! UN is just a tool of a bigger organization. It is pretty much MJ12's *****.

crimson_stallion
15th Jul 2003, 07:05
Originally posted by Big Ragu
Come on, in practicially every game now you kill people. Kill lots of people. Just kill for the heck of it. What is worst, go out and shoot someone or drink a forty. Hopefully you said killing someone is worst, but does does killing in a game cause kids to do it in real life? NO!

How can anyone say this stuff causes drug use or violence? For every kid that goes and kills, that also owns a violent videogame, threre are millions more kids that don't. So how can it cause it? It dosn't.

And I'm sure all the kids that go home from after school and smoke pot don't do it because they saw a videogame character do it. Come on.

It almost always goes down to the parents. If the kids have parents that instill good values in their kids, the kids will reflect that. If the parents beat the kids and neglect them, then the kids are most likely grow up hating life.

Well said. I think that parents are the most responsible. Of course, parents cant always be held liable, some kids are uncontrollable (even by their parents) but in the vast majority of cases its down to the parents just not taking the time to explain to them what is right and what is wrong, and to teach morals correctly. That and neglect which resutls in some kids wanting attention elsewhere...

Sadokitty
2nd Apr 2004, 15:46
rofl..

Deus Ex did in no way ever promote drug use, put the crack pipe down 'Uncle Sam'. :p

Seriously, if anything it showed that they were pretty pointless - they didn't help you in any way, smoking cigarettes was just a pointless waste of health, zyme made your vision all blurry.... Yes, really promoting drugs.... :rolleyes: