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View Full Version : Help me decide please!



The Godfather
20th May 2003, 11:31
Ever since I've seen X2 twice and The Matrix Reloaded I can't make up my mind which film is better. X2 was better than X-men, but The Matrix Reloaded was not as good as it's predecessor which puts these two sequels in the level now. They're both very good I think, but which one's better?

X2 is def. a better sequel, but somehow I still have doubts if it's better than The Matrix Reloaded. Anyhow, both films are very good and promise a good and long run for the many upcoming sequels such as T3, MatrixRev. and LOTR: ROTK.

It is not thé most important thing in the world, but I keep a list of all films that I've seen and that list consists out of two parts: one part where I classify all films by abc and one by year and quality (going from 5 *s upto half a * per year).

Tonight I'm gonna see The Matrix Reloaded a second time, so this may shed some light on my insecurity regarding both these films. Anyhow, they're the very best of 2003 ... so far; that is.

Sorry if this thread should come over as super-silly, but I just had to ask.

THE True Lara
20th May 2003, 15:51
Well, I'd say X2 was the better film, but as I hate the Matrix vehemently I would.

And Reloaded is worse than the first film you say! (excuse me whilst I laugh hysterically for a moment) -Well in that case X2 is definately better!

I also think you're jumping the gun saying they're the best of 2003, so far. May I gently point out; you've not seen all the films released so far, if you had 'Equilibrium' should have been on the list....

Go with X men and don't give it another thought.

Cyber_Punk_303
21st May 2003, 01:26
X2 was better than Reloaded. It was pretty true to the comic books, had great characterization and developement, balanced action, and a good storyline. Plus it had all these little cameos!!! WOOHOO!!!

Reloaded dissapointed me so much... The Matrix is my religion. The sequel lacked soul/heart/mystery/intruigue/mysticism. It answered too many questions that did not need answering, and it became a sort of caricature of itself. The way the story flowed was much like a tv series. The action was so over the top and endless that it left you numb. The first one had me on the edge of my seat. And the philosophy was made too blatant and in your face this time around. It was like a lecture. I didn't like the flow... Here is your mission breifing, go complete it, bam-bam-bam monologue and so on and so forth. Neo should not have become super-man. Too much comedy and so many USELESS characters just got in the way. And PS: A sex scene does not make up for lack of character developement.

Nothing can touch the original.

Cyber_Punk_303
25th May 2003, 17:35
Let's hear some more opinions damnit!!!

I feel like discussing Reloaded, cuz i personally was SO dissapointed. I'm gonna go see it again tonight - see if maybe i was expecting to much and let that cloud my judgement...

The Godfather
27th May 2003, 19:20
Well, I did see The Matrix Reloaded a second time and I think it's a tad better than X2 ... don't know why though. I just feel that way. Thanks anyways!

natasha_johnson
7th Jun 2003, 22:48
I personnally preferred the matrix reloaded than the original ,but I got to agree that the action scenes were getting long...but that's what poeple wanna see isn't it? And for the sex scene, I was asking myself questions;why was it there? It was so misplaced. But I preferred the matrix reloaded cuz I didn't really pay attention to the matrix I while I was watching it (I was eating nachos, and nothing can make me turn away from food...Ohh...Nachos!!). And for X2, I also think it was better than X-men. Just for the scene with Nightcrawler (he is my favorite, I always pick him when I play), I would say that X-2 was better than The matrix reloaded. That scene was awsome and got me fixed to my chair. Just from the beginning of the movie I was all excited about being there and watching it!!! Go with X2!

DaveJ
9th Jun 2003, 10:00
You need help deciding which film is better? :eek:
Can't you make your own mind up and have an opinion of your own?

There is no better or worse....its down to the individual.

X2 I liked as it built on (and delivered) the promise of the original.

'Matrix Reloaded' I liked because it didn't just try to remake or out-do the original, and pander like most sequels do.
The original had the element of surprise...and I'm glad the Wachowski's didn't fall on their a$$es trying to achieve that again.
Those who say it explained too much....what did you expect the first of two sequels to do.....fight for 2-4 hours? :D So the explanations don't fit in with some fans theories...the beauty of the first film was that it left you with plenty to think about (if you so desired)...and this second one does the same. ("The Animatrix" builds on that even more by giving more food for thought, without preaching or pandering.)

Seen both twice now, and on a second viewing of X2 I admit I was getting a tad restless....but on viewing Reloaded a second time my appreciation of it increased massively. It rewards multiple viewings like the first one did. And not many sequels have the kind of depth to them that both these sequels displayed. They usually go for the LCD tactic of making a quick buck by simply re-hashing the popular elements of the first.


ps. "Equilibrium".....ROTFLMAO!!! Also known as "Fahrenheit 1984 in the Matrix of John Woo's Gattaca". :D

THE True Lara
9th Jun 2003, 13:20
DO NOT get on my wrong side where Equilibrium is concerned, I'm well aware of it's many similarities to other films, but people who dismiss it solely on that premise simply aren't looking close enough. There was alot of clever thought behind it all, and it made a good film out of a lot of concepts that were ill expressed in others. Infact I liked the fact that it revisited the ideas that were so intriguing and thought provoking to people at the beginning of the last century, but have been forgotten in the poseing, computer generated, grungey, sunglasses in the dark wearing excitement of recent years.
At least Kurt Wimmer was trying to tell a story, not sell a franchise to the computer age.

DaveJ
9th Jun 2003, 14:34
Originally posted by THE True Lara

....but have been forgotten in the poseing, computer generated, grungey, sunglasses in the dark wearing excitement of recent years.
At least Kurt Wimmer was trying to tell a story, not sell a franchise to the computer age.

That kind of dismissal is also an example of people not looking close enough past the surface gloss, (or only looking at what they want to see) as the Wachowski's are simply trying to tell their story too. So they made the mistake of telling a successful one...does that de-merit it?

Had Equilibrium spawned a sequel, could 'franchise' be laid at its door too?

Sadly I didn't rate Equilibrium on its own merits as a particularly good "What if?" film, I'm afraid. Its derivative nature got the better of it ultimately. A nice enough story lost amongst the lack of its own original contributions. It would've been better off without the action movie elements, almost like it was afraid of finding an audience without them.
IMHO.

Whilst The Matrix movies are also wildly derivative, they at least brought some originality to the mix. And any 'blockbuster' movie that requires the audience to *gasp* think is a rarity indeed.

But again, there is no right or wrong...."Equilibrium" clicked with you the way "Matrix" did with me...so nobody loses out. ;)

Omega_Weapon
9th Jun 2003, 16:30
I liked Matrix better. I am an X-Men fan with over 250 issues of uncanny X-Men in my collection, including the Phoenix saga, but just didn't like the movie. It wasn't too true to the comics in the sense that it was the hellfire club that drove Jean into becoming what she did become.........which is a spoiler for those who haven't seen the movie, and no Magneto was not even part of the original Phoenix story either. With Logan wanting Jean as well as various age discrepancies (Bobby, one of the first X-Men, should be among the oldest and not some teen and Rogue didn't come into the picture until much later after Phoenix's *spoiler*), it combines the old comics with the new ones and it looks a bit messy if you're used to the comics. Then again, Joe Quesada runs Marvel now, and he's the master of completely screwing up continuity just to make a fast buck.

The Matrix, on the other hand, was a bit more interesting to me. I liked the goth overtones to it, and the fighting scenes were better than the last Matrix movie. Jada Pinkett was under-utilized, and the mentioning of the Osiris was no doubt an attempt to get you to buy the Animatrix DVD to fully understand what they're talking about. Morpheus finally got to show some whoop-*ss, which was cool, and the Silvers were cool too. I'd rather have Matrix's half-*ss plot than to have X2's ridiculously messed-up plot.

resh
12th Jun 2003, 16:58
They are both great, don't choose, life is already so full of choices, forget about this one. :D

Just enjoy the memories of both? ;)

I know, why not make a film with influences from both, sort of join them, now that would be a movie to see! :D ;) :D :p ;) :D

Cyber_Punk_303
13th Jun 2003, 10:48
Everyone has great points... However it still baffles me how many people liked Reloaded. I saw it twice, and although i understood more the second time, and got to really immerse myself in the script... i didn't find it *enjoyable*

NOTHING can top the action of The Matrix. I thought the action in Reloaded was over-done, too long, too elaborate, and devoid of intensity. Long live Trinity's opening scene/The Lobby Scene/The Helicopter scene/and the final fight scene of the original!

I realized what i didn't like about Reloaded... It wasen't seen through the eyes of Neo like the first movie. So you had no one to relate with. Neo and Trinity were so cold in this one.

And the first movie was deeper, but not in a LECTURE kind of way.

I was really hyped cuz i heard there would be WEAPONS, but what i got was SO dissapoiting. The sword fighting was very bare and newbie, and Keanu using the bo was so boring cuz it was all CG. I was looking forward to seeing him do some REAL martial arts stuff with it. Not fast forward CG crap.

And did they HAVE to make the Achitect use such uneccesary words, like ERGO!? Ergo means therefore or whatever, so why not just say THEREFORE!? Some ppl try too hard...

Also, i thought the first movie was more of a metaphor for life, and it was more of a head-trip. This one was just over-the-top sci-fi.

Cyber_Punk_303
13th Jun 2003, 10:51
I was hoping to see Neo coming to terms with his 'Oneness', and i thought he would be training alot again, in order to fully hone his skills, you know, carve his mind around the idea that he IS the One. I thought maybe everyone had a "Neo" inside them - and that Neo would help show Morheous and Trinity how to bend the rules even further. I dunno, i wanted to see the tables turn between Neo and Morph - it woulda been cool.

It would have been cool to see Neo and Trinity actually COMMUNICATE and GROW as characters. I wanted to find out who and how they really are as people, not warriors.

I also was interested in what Neo left behind. Didn't he have family or freinds?

Zion also had alot of potential. But AAARGH it was so ugly and horrible. So boring. So grey.

And why was EVERYONE flying around in the sequel *groan*.

DaveJ
13th Jun 2003, 17:13
I remember Neo flying...but no-one else. As to him having family and friends....he never really had a 'life' so that wouldn't be of much concern.

Zion was beautifully realised....of course its bleak and austere....you expected an Eden at the earth's core? If it was there'd be no reason for them to escape into the Matrix. Its the last bastion of mankind...beggars can't be choosers. But it was stunning to see it from above on that big screen.

Sounds like you had too many pre-conceptions of what you wanted the sequel to be about (Matrix 2, for instance) and if it had done that you would have had just cause for saying it was predictable. As it was it defied your expectations. The fight scenes are not the reason I went to see the movie.... I don't put that much value on their presence or lack thereof.

I liked the new direction it took...why should one think one has all the answers after just one movie? If that was the case there would be no need for the trilogy. Neo and Trinity developed further as people; more people are convinced Morpheus is two sarnies short of a full picnic hamper; and we have a better grasp of how the real world humans exist, and that the Matrix is soooo much more than we realised.

And as to your other concerns....the story ain't over yet. ;)


Now go see it again and ENJOY IT DAMMIT!!! :D

natasha_johnson
14th Jun 2003, 13:20
For the One thing in the Matrix, I'm convinced Morpheus is the one, and not Neo. He seems so much more wiser than Neo...