View Full Version : Questioning Ariel again

17th May 2003, 01:28
I just remembered something this morning. Something that may or may not be a clue as to how much Ariel knows about what is going on.

Back in SR1, Ariel's first line was "Who are you little soul?" Asking him who and what he was as if she didnt know. But at the end of that conversation she says this: "Then we have a common foe Raziel".

So my question is this: During that entire conversation, Raziel did not once mention his name. If she already knew it, from just watching all those years at the pillars, she would have not asked. So how is it she suddenly comes upon his name. I believe she let it slip, unknowingly. That she did indeed know Raziel, or atleast of him. And sought to manipulate him even then.

Ariel used to believe in balance above all else. But after living in her private hell for so long, could she really be after anything else except freedom?

Umah Bloodomen
17th May 2003, 01:39
Ariel is a tricky character, IMO. On one hand I'd like to assume that she's just selfish and has her own agendas about persuading whomever to rid Nosgoth of Kain so he can take her place, she can be free, la de da da da.

On another hand, as you've pointed out, her character implies that there is something more to her than what meets the eye. (Or it was a mishap in scripting :p).

At this point, I have preferred to sit back and wait for how Ariel will conduct herself in LOKD (providing she makes a cameo, which it's a pretty safe bet that she will). It's a bit hard to do, seeing I am hell-bent on non-typical theories, but it looks like she is merely acting for herself, trying to be freed of the Pillars. If she was working with someone else (Squiddy, Morty, whomever), I think that is what she also had to gain by helping out. (In the end at least). Some have suggested that Squiddy may have informed Ariel of Raziel (being intertwined with the Pillars and all). But now with Defiance in the not-so-distant-future, perhaps Ariel will have met Raziel first-hand (while she was alive) via time-streaming.

Now the thread I'm about to provide you was created last July, but it does contain some rather interesting ideas on this, some have changed as time has passed. (Mine especially).

(REPOST) Ariel Might Know More Than We've All Considered (http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1281&highlight=Ariel)

17th May 2003, 13:38
EDIT: Must have clicked the button twice.

17th May 2003, 13:53
I don't think there needs to be a balance ghost at the pillar. She's just there because of how (mudered) and why (to corrupt the pillars) she died. I think she'll be able to leave once this whole thing caused by her death is resolved. Maybe she's in fact stuck there because she allowed the circle members to carry out their plot to destroy the pillars. It sounds like she could have prevented some of what happened. When Kain dies, I'd assume his soul just needs to go to the pillar to let it know he's dead and then once the pillar's chosen a new balance guardian his soul can go elsewhere.

17th May 2003, 13:58
Thanks, didn't quite get it the first time. :rolleyes:

17th May 2003, 18:21
Happy now? :p

17th May 2003, 18:25
When Raziel first appears at the Sanctuary of the Clans, Kain and Raziel both call each other by name. She must've seen and heard what happened, and so the question "Who are you?" isn't asked in the sense that she is asking for his name, but who are you. Not sure if that will make sense but thats my reasoning.

17th May 2003, 18:38
Yeah, warp, that was the flaw in my thinking aswell.

Whether she meant it literally or hypothetically. But her curiosity seemed genuine, or was supposed to. Not simply asking who he was, but what he was. As if she had no knowledge of him prior. This is of course probably due to the fact that in this time line she did not meet him the past like she does in SR2.

But one thing has always puzzled me about Ariel. For one trapped to the Pillars and the Sanctuary of the Clans, she seemed to know alot about what happened in the rest of Nosgoth, and where Raziel's Brothers lay.

17th May 2003, 19:16
I think Kain would've tormented her and that could be why she knows what she does. The Sanctuary at one time was also probably a busy place, she could have overheard things.

I guess knowing what we know now, we could say her curiosity is genuine because Raziel was defending Kain and then attacking him (albeit 1000's yrs later), thus the question "who are you?" This is a big stretch though cause we know it was not supposed to happen that way.

18th May 2003, 12:26
If Raz had killed Kain when he was "supposed" (according to Moebius) to, then Moebius wouldn't have needed to send Raziel in to the era where he met Ariel.

Is Ariel even bound to the pillars or are they just here favorite sulking spot? In BO1, Kain says that Ariel led him somewhere, but I guess he could have meant she directed him.

18th May 2003, 23:19
Originally posted by Vampmaster
If Raz had killed Kain when he was "supposed" (according to Moebius) to, then Moebius wouldn't have needed to send Raziel in to the era where he met Ariel.

Is Ariel even bound to the pillars or are they just here favorite sulking spot? In BO1, Kain says that Ariel led him somewhere, but I guess he could have meant she directed him.

No! He always goes to the future, he must, he needs the Aerial Reaver. Otherwise he cant get to Janos and thats the plan.

19th May 2003, 21:17
don't forget that when ariel met raziel in SR1 it was after he shouted at her in SR2 chronologically so it was at least their second encounter

20th May 2003, 11:19
I knew that. I was just saying that Raz only met her in SR2 because he changed history otherwise SR1 would have been the first time.

I don't know about why he had to go to that time period to get the Air Reaver. If the entrance to the Air forge was blocked he'd probably have found another way in. I think we'd need to know a bit more about her character before we decide when she was telling the truth and when she was lying. I think you were right the first time Warp. She asks what he is as opposed to who he is.

20th May 2003, 23:41
It could also be that she is asking to try and see if he is who she thinks he is. A few thousand years is a long time, and even for a Guardian ghost, her memory could get fuzzy... She could just be confirming that this entity has in fact 'returned' that she met so long ago.

But at the same time, as soon as they have their conversation, she has the health and glyph restoration ready for him. Did she know ahead of time? Or did she just whip it out for him on the spot? Questions, questions...