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solidsnake
14th May 2003, 01:53
Haven't been here in a while... I get back and all this talk of Defiance has put me in overload here. Back when it was rumored that Kain could be playable, we all talked of how it wouldn't be possible due to his godlike powers. A lot of people brought up that they had to compensate for Kain being too powerful in BO2 by him being severely weakened due to him being unconscious for 200 years. My question is how do you think they will handle Kain's array of powers in this game? It hasn't been mentioned... but we know Kain should be able to teleport(SR2 intro) and his lightning attack could be devastating, how do you think that will be compensated for? The obvious would be tougher enemies... but would that alone be enough? Any thoughts or comments appreciated.

Umah Bloodomen
14th May 2003, 01:58
Well, his power is a bit limited on account that he only has an "empty shell" for a weapon. (The Reaver).

Compared to DMC-standards (which this game does a lot in the many press releases) perhaps he will be semi-powerful as the game starts and picks up different abilities throughout his journey. (And throw something in like an increased life-bar depending on how far you progress).

We could also go back to our roots and implement a BO-type method of gaining new abilities. (Different areas have different abilities, weapons etc.)

It's a bit too early to speculate on this from my perspective because I feel that there are so many angles to take.

solidsnake
14th May 2003, 02:05
Thanks for your thoughts Umah, very interesting. What do you think they'll do about the countless abilities that we know he already has? Case in point-lightning attack. Another would be the teleport mentioned earlier. That would be a little weird having to re-earn abilities we already know he posseses. But I can see him earning new abilities that we haven't seen.

Reaver of Souls
14th May 2003, 02:19
What they could do, is give him the important abilities (the ones you've mentioned), and leave out the rest (Chris has said there are 50ish). They could easily make Kain all powerful to start off with, but then like you said, all the enemies would also be very powerful and it wouldn't be any different than if he were weak and against weak opponents (except there wouldn't be spiffy powers to use :( )

Umah Bloodomen
14th May 2003, 02:37
Originally posted by solidsnake
Thanks for your thoughts Umah, very interesting. What do you think they'll do about the countless abilities that we know he already has? Case in point-lightning attack. Another would be the teleport mentioned earlier. That would be a little weird having to re-earn abilities we already know he posseses. But I can see him earning new abilities that we haven't seen.

You're quite welcome, solidsnake. (Good to see you back BTW). :)

Well, for their sake, I hope they don't omit one here and there. **coughcoughSR2andthevanishingabilityofconstrictcoughcough** :p

It's clear Kain has a very powerful telekinetic ability (which I will assume he does right off the bat) but as we noticed in BO2, he didn't have the same abilities from BO. Again, it's a bit early to speculate, but they could continue with that, giving him very few of his already acquired abilities (if any at all), and swapping them out for new ones, or enable him to find the old ones, but new and enhanced versions of them.


Originally posted by Reaver of Souls
What they could do, is give him the important abilities (the ones you've mentioned), and leave out the rest (Chris has said there are 50ish). They could easily make Kain all powerful to start off with, but then like you said, all the enemies would also be very powerful and it wouldn't be any different than if he were weak and against weak opponents (except there wouldn't be spiffy powers to use )

What I said above addresses some of this, but to further the discussion of enemies, I believe we can expect enemies of varied difficulty, which (depending on where you gain your abilities) will coincide with how you can defeat them. As cool as it would be to start off with the high and mighty Kain, I think it would take some of the skill and fun out of the title if we were playing with him in the equivalent of *GOD MODE* right off the bat. I do find it interesting that he is equipped with the reaver though, (again, assuming it's right off the bat). It makes me wonder if it will be able to obtain elements (BO-fire reaver reintroduction anyone?) :D

Anubis_Orr
14th May 2003, 02:53
Actually that brings up an interesting thought for me.... What are they going to do if we manage to get Kain "killed"?

Unless he manages to find the HoD at the Sarafan Stronghold and reclaim it before he goes on.

solidsnake
14th May 2003, 02:56
Thank you Umah, good to be back! And with finals outta the way I should be here more often. And thanks for not smacking me with the search feature because I found a lot of info in a couple other threads... the same answers you rewrote to me...thanks alot. :D On another note, when the release date is announced who else is gonna time it right and play all the games again in a row(or in whatever order you choose) right before Defiance comes out. Personally, I'm going to try and time it to where I beat SR2 again the day before Defiance is out. Just my nerdy preference tho.

Umah Bloodomen
14th May 2003, 02:57
Originally posted by Anubis_Orr
Actually that brings up an interesting thought for me.... What are they going to do if we manage to get Kain "killed"?

Unless he manages to find the HoD at the Sarafan Stronghold and reclaim it before he goes on.

They're going to laugh hysterically. :p

Seriously though, I doubt we're going to see a reintroduction of the HOD in the same manner it was used in the original BO. Seeing that it's been established that there's only one and not 99 and many are content with it having one use. (Not to mention the thing has to be found and possibly returned to Janos, la de da da).

I think we're possibly going to see a restart from where ever your last save was. (On account that the ability to autosave has been confirmed).

bnfdhfdhfd
14th May 2003, 02:58
Actually, I did that the day before I first heard about Defiance, Solidsnake

Anubis_Orr
14th May 2003, 03:00
Yeah, that's what I thought they would probably do. Though Kain may end up with the HoD just so Raziel doesn't get a hold of it and restore it to Janos, brings more tension to the story and another reason for them to mistrust the other.

Umah Bloodomen
14th May 2003, 03:03
Originally posted by solidsnake
Thank you Umah, good to be back! And with finals outta the way I should be here more often. And thanks for not smacking me with the search feature because I found a lot of info in a couple other threads... the same answers you rewrote to me...thanks alot. :D On another note, when the release date is announced who else is gonna time it right and play all the games again in a row(or in whatever order you choose) right before Defiance comes out. Personally, I'm going to try and time it to where I beat SR2 again the day before Defiance is out. Just my nerdy preference tho.

I can't very well whip out ye olde SEARCH function when a question hasn't been answered too indepthly. ;)

Besides, the majority has resorted to using the function first anyway. (Some need to work on it a little bit more than others, but there has been a definate improvement). :D

I actually pop in my LOK games frequently. (Not so much within the last few months on account of work, school and playing Thief). I'll probably do it again sooner or later. I have an urge to go through BO for like the eighth time. :p

Out of curiosity, what did you all think of the fire reaver possibility? I kind of liked it myself. ;)

solidsnake
14th May 2003, 03:06
Now I'm kind of wondering who will we end the story with? Kain or Raziel? And I wonder if it'll have a Getaway-like ending, though I know you the game won't play in halves like the Getaway did. Ok... this is like my 3rd edit. I totally misunderstood the fire reaver thing. I for one would like to see it again, too.:)

Lady Kreliana
14th May 2003, 04:47
Maybe they'll have you use both characters to end the game, but each in their own way. ... Ok, that sounds ridiculous. :D

(What kind of an ending did Getaway have? I've never heard of it. :))

solidsnake
14th May 2003, 05:18
The Getaway was a 2 character game and you experience the ending twice through the two different character's point of views, 1st half one character and 2nd part the other character. It's similar to GTA with more mission oriented play IMO. Pretty good game, I recommend it.

Soul Reaver
14th May 2003, 09:31
Vampire Kain (demigod) + Super powers + Moebius's staff = Quite weak ordinary vampire Kain with the Bloodreaver having to reclaim his powers.

That would even up the odds. You can't just throw all mighty and strong enemies at Raziel that get easiliy vanquished by Kain. If Kain is to be all-powerful I prefer that he goes to complete a task in some stronghold filled with strong enemies while Raziel tries to get his powers back.

CyberFish
15th May 2003, 18:38
About what happens when Kain dies:

In all probability, the game will reload from the most recent savegame or the start of the chapter. That will add way more tension to the combat than simply having Kain restored instantly by the HoD or anything like that.

However, I also suspect it will be possible for Raziel to die and be forced to restart from a save, if he gets killed in the Spectral Realm. If he's not on the best of terms with the Eldar any more, and the portals have stopped working, there's a good chance that the instant-ressurection trick won't work either.

Abellah
15th May 2003, 19:41
If he's not on the best of terms with the Eldar any more, and the portals have stopped working, there's a good chance that the instant-ressurection trick won't work either

Unless Raziel was right in SR2, and he's unkillable, or at least no one knows how to kill him, save by being absorbed by the Reaver.

Wise Man Domingo
15th May 2003, 23:54
Here's your compensation of sorts:

Raziel is weaker than Kain, but he can't really "die", he just shifts to Spectral, and if he dies there, he winds up being sucked to a checkpoint beacon (assuming the system works like SR2's did).

Kain, well, he's a really, REALLY, REEEEAAAAALLY powerful vamp, but if he dies its GAME OVER!

That is, assuming anyone can actually kill Kain...

OH! and Kain's immobilized by that blasted staff Moebius has! crap, I forgot!

someguysteve
16th May 2003, 00:03
What they could do, is give him the important abilities (the ones you've mentioned), and leave out the rest (Chris has said there are 50ish)

only so many can be used for battle right, he wont need his talk to squirls power


Kain, well, he's a really, REALLY, REEEEAAAAALLY powerful vamp, but if he dies its GAME OVER!

maybe he'll teleport away when his life gets too low. like he'll have a regular life bar, but when it reaches 1/8 life he'll teleport so in essence that 1/8 part of his life bar might as well not exist