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View Full Version : The First LOK-D Trailer Discussion (Spoilers)



Matthew
13th May 2003, 22:22
I rolled the trailer many many times and paused on certain spots to take a closer peek. Doing so, many questions and thoughts were raised. I think many of You have experienced the same. Thuought we could concentrate all the trailer-related discussion into this thread. Anyway, shall we begin?

Vorador's silhuette
That can be seen somewhere between 11-13 (12-13 more accurate) seconds. It seems that he's walking in a corridor with torches on the walls. Any thoughts?

Ward Gates in Vorador's Mansion
This can be seen right after Vorador's silhuette (13-14 seconds). Is this even Vory's Mansion (looks like it), is that green thingy even a Ward Gate (looks like it). What's it doing there? Thoughts?

Winged
Now this is the most interesting part. At 20-23 seconds Raziel seems to be surprised by a being behind him.
The being, at first, looks like a statue made of stone.
But, ah - it moves! And very elegantly also.
It also has those gauntlets like Janos had in BO2 (not so important).
But most of all - that figure seems to have black feathery wings.

Now I'm not sure if its the figure seen later in the trailer, because I think that the one later in the trailer is maybe a boss-adversary (some stone-gargoyle or ... something).
Thoughts?

- Matthew

Ladra de Almas
14th May 2003, 01:12
Matthew

First of all, sorry for the terrible english ..

I really believe it´s not Vorador in (12-13 seconds). I captured those images and it seemed to be a kind of a stone monster. But a little while after that, there is some dark image .. and perhaps .. that could be Vorador, but I doubt .. The camera is behind his head .. that´s the kind of camera only for Raziel or Kain ..

Well, I didn´t play BO, so I don´t know Ward Gates ..

Yes, there is a winged been, with black wings too .. but it really seems to be made of stone

http://www.thekey.kit.net/forum/1213.jpg

http://www.thekey.kit.net/forum/vorador.jpg

http://www.thekey.kit.net/forum/winged.jpg

That´s it ..

http://www.thekey.kit.net/thereaver.jpg

Umah Bloodomen
14th May 2003, 01:20
I will agree with Ladra. There is an obvious presence of statue enemies in the trailers. (Which are probably triggered the closer Raziel gets to them, or following the completion of a puzzle or something).

As for the ward gates, I think it's a bit early to assume that at this point. (Although I wouldn't totally rule it out on account that it's pretty obvious there will be time streaming involved in this title).

It was clear that TSL and his revived Sarafan were responsible for ward gates in BO2. This implies that the BO2-storyline is going to be touched on in some aspects, (most likely during the time BO2-era Kain was unconscious - seeing he had no recollection of a ward gate during his first empire).

blincoln
14th May 2003, 01:34
SR2 also had green energy barriers. I wouldn't assume it's a ward gate just yet.

I have a feeling Vorador will make an appearance in this one, but I don't think he's pictured in the trailer.

warpsavant
14th May 2003, 01:38
I thought the rock that came to life looked like Janos. (31 secs and again at 39)

L_Master562
14th May 2003, 01:43
Variety of enemies as seen already. We have robed and armored knights by the looks of it, stone monsters and some spiky human like thralls. Those I would love to kill. Then we have the most common enemy which was those dark skinny things. The trailer quality was good but they were Raz like jumpin', so for the most part I was getting that or back shots and they were carrying blades. The normal human thing is great to have return. In Sr2, I felt as though everything we ran in to was armored. Bo2 had so many commoners I had fun. Knowing Bo2 was caused by Sr2 from some interviews, it wouldn't be hard for me to believe that it was a possible ward gate or simply a demon gate. Who knows, a new barrier even. Waaaaannnntttttt.....MORE!!!!! Tantalizing in the least. Too early to make assumptions past what we have seen prior or been givin on the new game though. When I see the mansion and such, I just think of the Sr1 cut cathedral with the darkness and stuff. No clue why. They aren't exactly alike which is why I don't know how I get that feeling.

saravok
14th May 2003, 07:12
If you freeze the trailer at 12secs, the shadow looks a lot like Vorador. Old characters would make a cameo so it could be him.

darien_specter
14th May 2003, 08:01
I vote for that being Vorador. It really looks a lot like his SR2 silhouette; more importantly, in screenshot numbber 8 at the Eidos E3 site, there is a scene that is clearly Vorador's mansion because it has: 1) A big tapestry of Vorador. This would also indicate that Defiance is going to follow the SR2 character model trend rather than the BO2 (thank God).

I also lean more towards a demon barrier than a ward gate; though that's only rampant speculation, as it is (as has been noted) too early to tell. In support of a demon gate, though, some of the screenshots have looked very cathedral-esque... possibly Avernus? Which as we all remember was demon-infested. That'd make a nice harmonization all the way back to BO.

Murals look like a big thing again; some VERY interesting ones at :10 and :50. The latter one seems to be an Ancient again; the first one is completely foriegn to me...

I think that, looking at the two instances of light shooting out of people, we may be seeing instances of the possession mentioned in some of the articles as a method of Raziel returning to the material plane. Any thoughts?

Matthew
14th May 2003, 09:32
Originally posted by Umah Bloodomen
I will agree with Ladra. There is an obvious presence of statue enemies in the trailers. (Which are probably triggered the closer Raziel gets to them, or following the completion of a puzzle or something).

As for the ward gates, I think it's a bit early to assume that at this point. (Although I wouldn't totally rule it out on account that it's pretty obvious there will be time streaming involved in this title).

It was clear that TSL and his revived Sarafan were responsible for ward gates in BO2. This implies that the BO2-storyline is going to be touched on in some aspects, (most likely during the time BO2-era Kain was unconscious - seeing he had no recollection of a ward gate during his first empire).



Yeah, I agree on that, too.

It's VERY likely that the creature that surprised Razi is a boss-adversary or just a walking statue-adversary. Kind of a ... stone gargoyle.
But it was so strange because that creature walked SO ELEGANTLY.
Oh well, maybe only my imagination.

But I'm 85% sure that the silhuette we saw there is Vorador (yes, the camera is behind his back and we can only see his head).

And yeah - that could be just a demon gate. VERY likely.

So basicly at the moment we have the following adversaries:

Lesser Thralls
Thralls
Sarafan
Stone Gargoyle monsters (?)
Fat Ogres
Magma Monsters

Saw anything else?

- Matthew

Soul Reaver
14th May 2003, 09:40
I think the statue was Janos or some other Ancient. The guy was blue for crying out loud. He had the smae hair style as Janos the wings and don't forget the white robes. But still I don't roll out the possibility of it being a statue-golem or something like that...

Anubis_Orr
14th May 2003, 14:00
If you compare the statue and the silhouette closely you'll see that they are both "on fire" at the same spots and both have the curved shoulder blade. The reason we probably see from behind it is that it's probably the first time Raziel encounters such an enemy. Thus there's a scene where we see it "activate" and turn towards Raziel to fight.

I don't doubt that Vorador is in the game but let's not be jumping at silhouettes. ;)

As for the "ward gate"... I'm leaning towards more of a demon barrier because of the "fog" effect that can be seen, there also doesn't seem to be anybody close enough to make it go opaque.

~darien_specter - I don't believe those are images of Raziel's new form of possession. In the first instance you can clearly see Raziel's leg between the gargoyles legs showing that he's a distance behind him. In my opinion we're seeing the "death" of the creature and the shell can no longer contain the energy within and it is being released (of course for Raziel's consumption :D).

darien_specter
14th May 2003, 21:02
Ohhhhh, right, Anubis. Also the screenshot of Raziel feeding shows the souls as resembling the creatures they once inhabited (not unlike the new Reaver...) Watching it again, I see what you're talking about - though not Raziel's leg, but I do see the Reaver, and what looks like his head.

That same shot (at :30) shows a creature that looks very similar to the creature that causes Raziel to whip around earlier. This too from Anubis makes sense; there have after all usually been little cinematics the first time Raziel encounters an enemy.

If that's how creatures die when Raziel kills them... oh man that'll be spectacular! :D

EDIT: Or at least those, anyway; they seem to be the only ones to explode in light like that... heehee...

Abellah
15th May 2003, 17:23
If it's what I think your talking about, at first I thought it was Vorador's silhuette as well, however looking at it closely and very slowly, I don't think it is Vorador, but rather an extreme close up of someone's cloven hands ( I think Raziel's, but I'm not sure) and it looks like he's doing something with fire (the afore-mentioned pyrokenetic Reaver?).

I can't check it because IGN is claiming I've used up my daily alloted time.... I think they're toying with us to get you to sign up for IGN Insider just to sate our fandomism of Kain... And the streamed video from the official site is also giving me problems again, doing audio only and no pics... Damn computers

Stukedogg
15th May 2003, 17:40
We all know Vorador has got to be in there whether he's in the trailor or not.

darien_specter
15th May 2003, 19:18
You just need to download it; then you can watch it as often as you want... :)

That silhouette does seem more ambiguous now; I thought I had seen eyes before, but another viewing proves otherwise. Hmmm... Nevertheless, we are at least going to Vorador's mansion, because there are screenshots with big murals or somesuch of him...

And I just noticed that throughout the trailer, Raziel's fingers are now the actual bone color of all the artwork, no longer blue as they had been in the previous installments. How sweet is that... I may need a new graphics card for this one!

Sayel
15th May 2003, 19:57
hmm...as I looked closer to the surroundings of Kain when he fought all those Sarafan (from the 28th second) , don't you think it could be Maleks Bastion.

It is also snowy, it resembles a castle and all Sarafan Warriors, like in Blood Omen, have got that silver-violet suit.

A scene like this when Kain arrives at the place for the first time:
Kain delves in his fragmented reminiscences. He remembers this to be the old Bastion, where he fought Malek the first time.
Immediately the first warriors show up and he doesn't hestitate to attack them with a little grin on his face.

Abellah
15th May 2003, 20:38
Memories.... Got nothin' but memorieeeeees...

At first I thought it was the Sarafan Stronghold from SR2 because it was snowing there in 500 years before BO1.

However, if it IS Malak's Bastion, that'd be a welcome return to the original. Again, going in full circle, and ending the story from whence it began.

So, we have possible Bastion, Avernus, and Mansion... Anything else that would be great to return to? Ackbar, er um, Otmar's kingdom? That bar where Kain gets killed?

Speaking of which, I think Kain needs to do something completelly unredeemably evil in this game. He was evil in BO1, malavent in SR1, then made a complete change to be a father figure in SR2, and we'll ignore him being a putz in BO2.

So, maybe Kain should burn down that town with the pub. Maybe do that while playing as Raziel to get the full effect of how callous Kain is. We don't want to humanize Kain too much, it'd ruin his intrinsic charector.

Sayel
15th May 2003, 20:47
First why should Kain burn down Ziegsturhl, from the look of the SR2 Kain it was millenias ago, so it is pretty certain that he doesn't care anymore.

Second we would have a paradox, during the whole Blood Omen 1 Game, of course until Kain goes back in time, we could see Ziegsturhl unmarred.

Kain will do something evil, we all know. But this will be much greater and will have a bigger impact on the whole plot.

Abellah
15th May 2003, 21:01
The main reason is to show that while Kain is highly evolved, in SR2, he's too 'nice'. I'd like to see him do something petty and vicious just because he can. Reaffirming the charector from the earlier games.

It was just a random idea, and although it's true that Ziegsturhl is fine all the way to the end (minus the corpses that Kain feeds upon in passing) this could've been an allowment in time. I think that the way time flows in LOK allows for little deviants in history with each passing, unless something really big happens (like Raziel not killing Kain, or getting absorbed into the Reaver).

As far as we know, nothing happens in Ziegsturhl that anyone would miss it's passing, other than Kain's murder, and I kinda think LOK-D will take place shortly after Kain returns in the first game- blame it on the Nemisis, or the generic vampires that Moebius hunts down. Of course, it would be ironic if something as petty as that spelled Kain's defeat, something gods, demons, sorcerors, vampires could never do.

Anyway, I just thought it would be a return to Kain's personality if he did something evil, but not in the grand scale of things. It's unlikely we'll see something like this, but ah well.

Soul Reaver
16th May 2003, 11:53
I checked the video overandoverandoveroverandoverandoverandoverandoverandoveroverandoverandoveroverandoverandoveroverandoverandoveroverandoverandoveroverandoverandoveroverandoverandoveroverandoverandoveroverandoverandoveroverandoverandoveroverandoverandoveroverandoverandoveroverandoverandoveroverandoverandoveroverandoverandoveroverandoverandoveroverandoverandoveroverandoverandoveroverandoverandoveroverandoverandoveroverandoverandoveroverandoverandoveroverandoverandoveroverandoverandoveroverandoverandover

And I'm still confident that the being is an Ancient or Janos.

Fact 1. It has black wings.
Fact 2. It has a two-toed foot.
Fact 3. It's lightblue.
Fact 4. It has three-fingered hands.
Fact 5. It wears white robes.

And it seems to talk to Raziel, who isn't too eager too attack it.

Sayel
16th May 2003, 13:54
Anyway, I just thought it would be a return to Kain's personality if he did something evil, but not in the grand scale of things. It's unlikely we'll see something like this, but ah well.

Well it is still some time to the release. Everything is possible :)
I'm already very anxious for the next piece of information, or even a new and longer Trailer.

Evelin The Winged
16th May 2003, 16:14
which trailer is this?

Sayel
16th May 2003, 17:12
go to www.eidosinteractive.com

There a new window will pop up with all new games presented at E3.
Click on Defiance, there will be a Trailer sub-menu. You can either choose to stream the video or to download it.

Reaver_Fan
16th May 2003, 20:33
http://www.gamershell.com/hellzone_Playstation_2_Legacy_of_Kain_Defiance.shtml

Picture 12 shows that the creature Raziel is fighting is probably a statue of an ancient, you can see it in the background. Most of Raziels scenes in the trailor seem to be taken from thise area.

I also thought the statue in the background of picture 2 is interesting, although I can't quite make out what it is.

--edit aslo just noticed the statue casts no reflection in the floor...

Reaper007
17th Jun 2003, 15:13
Originally posted by Reaver_Fan
[url]I also thought the statue in the background of picture 2 is interesting, although I can't quite make out what it is. http://www.nosgoth.net/Defiance/Screenshots/Dscreen_20.jpg

looks a lot like a statue of Vorador to me.

Reaper007

punkst4r
20th Jun 2003, 04:12
To bad the mediaplayers don't have like a slow play button so that we can catch all the quick screens.

Lucent
20th Jun 2003, 07:53
I'll smoosh a few of these rumors and questions, since I was able to play the demo at E3.

1: The statue warriors- They're statues of bird-winged ancients who guard the exterior of Vorador's Manor from intruders. Vorador has dozens of blue-ancient decorations throughout his mansion.

2: The statue in the foyer- Yes, that is Vorador himself.

3: Ward Gates - I don't think they're ward-gates per-se, however when you enter the main ahll of Vor's mansion, several of the doorways are sealed off by shimmering green light until you kill a small horde of enemies. Doesn't sound like how a ward gate works to me...


Hope that helps out.

-Lucent

Zephonim
26th Jun 2003, 16:01
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Lucent
[B]I'll smoosh a few of these rumors and questions, since I was able to play the demo at E3.

Can i just say
YOU SPAWNY GET!!!!!;)