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View Full Version : Is LOKD the last game in the LOK series??



kongg
8th May 2003, 13:42
I sure hope not. Chris...........any hints??

Evelin The Winged
8th May 2003, 14:09
I sure hope not.

fneh
8th May 2003, 14:11
Obviously they'll make more if it's sucessful...

If it flops they'll never make another. doesn't matter if the game ends like SR2 did either.

Riovanes
8th May 2003, 15:44
I've been under the impression - from reading interviews with Amy Hennig and from things said by members of this board that have had contact with CD staff - that Defiance will be the last one in this story arc. They've always said that SR3 will close up Raziel's story - and this looks like an SR3/BO3 combination. I actually DO hope this is the last one - I'm getting sick and tired of cliffhanger endings, it's time we had some closure for the story.

And for those of you who are thinking, "You're not a true fan! You want the series to end!" Look at Tomb Raider. What does it do right now? That's right, it sucks - why? Because the same character, acting under the same concept, has been so thoroughly overused that it's no longer fun to play. The story just keeps GOING - if you never reach a conclusion, how the hell do you know where you are in the continuity?

Or look at Star Wars. The last two SW films have been CRAP. Why? Because they don't measure up to the original three - not because the acting's bad, or because the effects aren't good, or even because of poor scripting (although there were places the writing made me want to puke) - it's because the first three SW films captures something original - it was new, fresh, exciting. When that first story arc (the rebellion) closed with Return of the Jedi, people felt satisfied with it. It wasn't "noooooooooooooo!!! Make more!!!" People then understood that all good stories must end sometime, in order to give you a chance to assimilate all the events of that tale in your head, and to try to give it some order and meaning. Series that continue forever suffer from an eventual degradation in quality of plot, scripting, and general fun factor - again, look at the last two Star Wars films.

And yes, I know there are some people that will still disagree with me. Screw the story, give me Raziel. I know how that is - it's called being a fanboy. Fanboys (and fangirls) are interesting in that they will generally buy ANYTHING associated with their favorite product, just so they can say they have it. CD could start producing LoK toilet paper - and these people would be the first to rush out and buy it. Really crappy Raziel costumes would hit the market - and you'd have instant cosplayers. Not that there's anything wrong with cosplaying, but here's the point - if you're going to be willing to buy ANYTHING with the LoK logo on it, despite it being crap or otherwise, then perhaps it is YOU who needs to consider the depth of your interest in this series. In my mind, a true fan cares more for the quality, depth, and integrity of their favorite character/series than they do for the series continuing into antiquity. Someone who likes it simply because "Raziel looks so cool," is on a more surface-level fandom - and that's the kind that winds up creating series like Tomb Raider, Sonic the Hedgehog (in his later years), and *shivers* Mortal Kombat - games that have gone on so long they've lost their point.

As Umah said in another thread, a concept can only be stretched so far before it breaks - and LoK is looking at losing a bit of elasticity if they try to force it beyond Defiance.

BAH!!!

Baby_drew
8th May 2003, 16:10
I have to say i completly agree here, althrough i think that the 'Nosgoth' World is EVEN stronger than the story, I could see other spin off games not based on kain or raziel but set in the LOK world being successful.

N0V4
8th May 2003, 16:18
SW movies are NEVER crapy!
And hell teh saber battle are WAY better!!!

Pffff, you are like a trekky.


Anyways.


I think they should end the story with the hereos but not end Nosgoth's saga.
No, I dont mean make new hereos.....
I mean a little genre with 6 letters.

MMORPG

Its the future...consider it guys.

Vampmaster
8th May 2003, 16:30
The difference between Tomb Raider and LOK is that LOK actually has a plot! Games can have sequels without the previous game being a cliffhanger. I mean in movies you can get to the end and think "that's it they won", and then the sequel pops up and it turns out the characters overlooked something and have a whole new completely different set of problems.

N0V4
8th May 2003, 17:46
Amen!
Tomb Raider was nothing like LoK.
Why?
It had an ending and than they started a new story...TOTAL new story...but wait a minute?
SAME CONCEPT!
Go from point A to B,back to A to open door to go to C and than to go to E to open door to D to actually THAN leave the level.

So you see.....not only is it an annoying run.....ITS ALL THE SAME!

Vampmaster
8th May 2003, 18:56
That's not quite what I meant. Tomb Raider had almost no plot. While it did start a new story each time, the stories weren't interesting and were too similar to each other. By the end of defiance the pillars will hopefully be restored but there's nothing stopping the writers from having something happen that has nothing to do with the pillars or the hylden. Maybe defiance could end with Kain finding the pillars restored and stops there with us thinking we've done all we need to do and then in the sequel he goes back to his own time and finds out that yeah the pillars are restored but his empires's still a wreck and it's turned against him or something. As long as the game stays fun they should keep making new ones. Just keep letting us think it's over, then suprise us.

Matthew
8th May 2003, 19:19
Rio has a solid point going on there.

As much as I dislike the LOK series to end, we have to face it - sometimes, they are gonna end. If LOK-D is gonna be so fine as they describe it to be ... why not end it with that?

In sum - I, as many others, do think that it's time to close Raziel's storybook. It's been more than fun and LOK-D promises to end it with might.

As for the prequels and stuff ... not so sure. A lot of people would protest against it, as countlessly seen on these boards.

I'm just gonna sit back, relax, eat some pop-corn, wait for LOK-D, play it and see what'll happen. :cool:

- Matthew

Valaquen_
8th May 2003, 20:05
Well a lot of people say they wouldn't mind a chronicles game (sorta like the TR one, but not as boring) where you can see events far back and forth in Nosgoths history and the such

Matthew
8th May 2003, 20:12
Yeah, that's exacltly what I meant with "countlessly discussed".
...
... But that's also what I meant by "countlessly protested against"...

- Matthew

fneh
8th May 2003, 21:26
I agree 100% with Riovanes. I don't know if it's a good thing but I can't seem to stop agreeing with you lately!


one thing I want to say though is I don't want the ending to be what I think it will be Raziel being sucked into the reaver forever


I don't have a problem with it happening, it's just that I won't feel anything when it happens. I want something amazing to happen like SR2 did. I NEVER saw that ending coming (well apart from the last battles. I worked that out quite early in)

Matthew
8th May 2003, 21:32
[sarcam] Not only are Tomb Raiders getting dumber, Lara's bazooms are getting bigger and bigger :D :P [/sarcasm]

- Matthew

fneh
8th May 2003, 21:55
that's not sarcasm. you might wanna look up about using it appropriately. Lara's jubblies DO get bigger in each game anyway.....

Umah Bloodomen
8th May 2003, 22:22
To elaborate a bit more on what Rio said, I actually said this in another thread:


Originally posted by Umah Bloodomen
Realistically, there is more room for Lara Croft to keep raiding tombs because her story wasn't actually centralized around any specific thing and is always left open for some new artifact or whatever. (Don't get me wrong, it gets old very quickly as I am sure the sales and hype around TR has shown, as have TR's recent rise in competitive series'.). LOK has been built around the concept that Nosgoth is corrupted and needs to be restored and once that's done, where do you go with the series? I mean in a forward sense, not in a chronicles-type aspect or into the stories of less-predominant characters. I am talking about with Kain. I seriously don't think you can accomplish much with him without altering his personality as a character and I don't forsee that to be something I'd enjoy.

There's only so much that can be done with any given series. I still enjoy the RE games, but the zombie-virus is how old now?

Exactly.

Eh, it's alright fneh, not everyone can master the art of sarcasm in this day and age. That's why people like Rio, Rando, Willow and I remain pioneers. :D

Just to point it out to the padawan learner, THAT was sarcasm.

SirRaziel
8th May 2003, 22:56
When you finish the game you'll find out.

kongg
9th May 2003, 00:26
I think the world of Nosgoth is too rich and the plotlines too deep to just discard it like that. Maybe the new games will be based on other characters. Hint--->>Presequel like in Star Wars?Maybe we get to play Janos Audron when he is young??Set in the timeline during the Ancients vs Hylden war age??

Or maybe we get to play the Sarafan!!:D

warpsavant
9th May 2003, 02:18
I hope Kain dies and thats the end of his story.

Edit: oOOps

Umah Bloodomen
9th May 2003, 02:21
Originally posted by warpsavant
I hope Kain dies, and the world is born anew.

As much as I enjoy Kain as a character, that's the only hope for the franchise to continue. New characters, new plot. (Of course that means a new title).

Gravy Omen: Legacy of Biscuit

Kind of catchy, IMO. :D

Or the vampire-games are dropped totally.

Anubis_Orr
9th May 2003, 02:23
Vampires won't like that.... clogs the arteries ;)

warpsavant
9th May 2003, 02:26
Yeah that game would be awesome with mashed potatoes!


Every thinks Raz is gonna die, so why not Kain instead. It looks like somebody has to die, either them or maybe Ariel to end anything I think. I really have no idea, I honestly dont even care if this game has any type of conclusion, as long as its got action and its long.

Umah Bloodomen
9th May 2003, 02:31
Yeah, but then you're eventually back to where we are now. Where do you go with the storyline without it getting overly stale?

warpsavant
9th May 2003, 02:35
I don't know, ask Amy. :p

Umah Bloodomen
9th May 2003, 02:46
I am not saying CD doesn't have the talent to pull it off for awhile, don't get me wrong. It's very obvious that they're a talented bunch (Amy included ;) ) but even the creative and talented types know when to stop.

Griever
9th May 2003, 03:35
Originally posted by Umah Bloodomen
I am not saying CD doesn't have the talent to pull it off for awhile, don't get me wrong. It's very obvious that they're a talented bunch (Amy included ;) ) but even the creative and talented types know when to stop.


I am reminded of a quote from quite a lovely novelette called "Beauty and the Opéra or the Phantom Beast" (Suzy McKee Charnas) :

"Never repeat even the prettiest melody more than thrice at a go, my father used to say. Knowing it must end enhances its beauty and prevents boredom in its hearers."

Yeah, ok, thats talking about music. But you get the point. ;)

keepittrue
9th May 2003, 07:57
3 things.

1. Hi everyone.

2. I completely agree with Rio, which I dont too often.

3. I think Kain and Raziel ends up dying.

fneh
9th May 2003, 10:54
I actually have a couple of ideas that could work beyond defiance.

my particular fav:

an (online maybe) RPG where you control a human character or vampire character in the decaying future wasteland as seen in SR1 (only an earier version before raziel was reborn). During the era when Dumah was all powerful.

Humans: can gang together and help each other to defeat the vampires with the ultimate goal of destroying Dumah's empire (as we see the remains in SR)

Vampires: any clan. Start as a fledgling and your goal is to kill humans basically. Perhaps the vampires could even evolve as their masters evolved.


I personally love the idea of ganging together and taking on the Mighty Dumah. even everyone from these forums could gang up together.......and stab each other in the backs!:D

fneh
9th May 2003, 10:56
I can't see Kain dying. Unless he's killed then he's not going to die. Kain wouldn't give his life for nosgoth.

I like the way kain is actually seeing raziel as an ally while raziel is probably seeing kain as the enemy


Are you enjoying this KAIN? was this your plan for me all along????

Vampmaster
9th May 2003, 11:41
I just want no cliff hangers so I don't need to care if there's no more games. They should just stop making the series when they run out of ideas for it, but if they still come up with new stories for after the pillars are fixed, they should do that.

Riovanes
9th May 2003, 19:02
Personally, I just want some steak and eggs...

BAH!!!

N0V4
9th May 2003, 19:09
Originally posted by fneh
I actually have a couple of ideas that could work beyond defiance.

my particular fav:

an (online maybe) RPG where you control a human character or vampire character in the decaying future wasteland as seen in SR1 (only an earier version before raziel was reborn). During the era when Dumah was all powerful.

Humans: can gang together and help each other to defeat the vampires with the ultimate goal of destroying Dumah's empire (as we see the remains in SR)

Vampires: any clan. Start as a fledgling and your goal is to kill humans basically. Perhaps the vampires could even evolve as their masters evolved.


I personally love the idea of ganging together and taking on the Mighty Dumah. even everyone from these forums could gang up together.......and stab each other in the backs!:D


Didnt I state this before?
MMORPG.

I think of it liek this.

You can only be a human, its the era where Kains empire falls at stuff, your goal?
Make friends, become powerfull and survive the hunt down.

We could Maybe even make it in teh begining of the making of Kains empire.
So there would be alot of towns.

You could have different "race"of humans...like in LotR they have Numeror race(Gondor), the southern race(Egiptians), the Northern race(Rohan).


Oh well Ill probably make something up and post.

fneh
9th May 2003, 21:35
I don't think ripping of lord of the rings is going to get pulled off do you?

jesta
10th May 2003, 00:10
In my opinion if defience is the last one the i hope it goes out in a blaze of glory.

Let it end on a high i would hate to see a good series go stale as it could do if they just kept pumping them out.
and on another note why does everone think that Raz or Kain may die? I do supose it posible but then its also posible that there may be more than one ending, several in fact all we can do is wait and see what CD do, lets face it its been worth it up to now.

§ycavier
10th May 2003, 16:14
As for this being the last game in the series, i am stll slightly partial on the issue (i would have really liked to see a SR3).

But for the end of Kain and Raz what role will the hylden play in all of this?

Will Raz still be the savior of the vampires somehow?(however few may be left)

Will he do as depicted in the murals of SR2 and possibly destroy the hylden (or banish them or whatever) once and for all? (also possibly destroying himself in the process some how)

And what role will kain play in all of this? after all will the pillars be restored to their PROPER gaurdians?

i hope all of this will be answered along with all of the other questions that we all have asked so far.


Vampmaster
10th May 2003, 17:15
Originally posted by Riovanes
Personally, I just want some steak and eggs...

BAH!!!

Chris hasn't banned wishlists. And I was just saying I'm pretty much done asking for new stuff and more concerned about things getting left out.

N0V4
10th May 2003, 17:25
Originally posted by fneh
I don't think ripping of lord of the rings is going to get pulled off do you?


Its not ripping off!!!!

Im giving examples since being a vampire would mean to be stronger than a human and that wouldnt be nice since everyone would want to be a vampire and there would be no balance!

Gsus, its like talking to a 1 year old (joke :p )

Vampmaster
10th May 2003, 17:30
Originally posted by jesta
In my opinion if defience is the last one the i hope it goes out in a blaze of glory.

Let it end on a high i would hate to see a good series go stale as it could do if they just kept pumping them out.
and on another note why does everone think that Raz or Kain may die? I do supose it posible but then its also posible that there may be more than one ending, several in fact all we can do is wait and see what CD do, lets face it its been worth it up to now.

Chris posted in the magical ask Chris thread that Amy said they'd make LOK games as long as we buy them. As for sequels, maybe Kain and Raz (strapped to his back or coiled around his arm :D) decide to cure the blood curse. Then they fail and and cause a whole new new list of problems.

N0V4
10th May 2003, 17:33
Than we are gonna break the FF record if they keep going like that :D

Vampmaster
10th May 2003, 17:37
As long as it doesn't get boring! Some people who I won't mention are bored already but I'm not.

fneh
10th May 2003, 18:06
I'll be happy to see more games (as the one I mentioned above for example) but one thing that I DON'T want to see is if they keep giving us cliffahnger endings!
:mad:
There is very little I hate more than cliffhangers.

N0V4
10th May 2003, 18:09
But cliffhangers are what kept the SR series ALIVE!

Tomb Raider died because she kept ending the story and starting a new one.
Well ok they are actually always teh same story with characrters with other names and thats it.
But still.
BAH!
You knwo what I mean

Riovanes
10th May 2003, 23:18
Originally posted by §ycavier
As for this being the last game in the series, i am stll slightly partial on the issue (i would have really liked to see a SR3).



Technically, this IS SR3. It's been called "SR3 and BO3 rolled together." It's basically the perfect way to end the series - with the two principle characters coming together for one momentus last effort. Their fates are, after all, inextricably linked - might as well go out together.

BAH!!!

Future's Scribe
11th May 2003, 07:13
I hope this isn't the last. While this may end the current story line, and that would be fine, there's still room for a BO3. Before someone re-states that Defiance is SR3/BO3, I'm talking about that space of time between BO2 and SR. It's possible, although this isn't my story so I won't tell them how to write it.

Cliff hangers aren't a bad thing. They are a good thing, but I do hope this one has a resolution, like SR. SR2 didn't have a resolution. It was just felt like it was cutting off half way through the story, as though they just ran out of time and released the game.

I agree with Fneh(sp?) on the end of Raziel's story. That seems to be the only possible outcome, especially with the end of SR2 where he realizes he can't escape his destiny to become the Reaver.

If they do make another, I pray(to CR, I guess, being an atheist) that it isn't an online role playing game. Where is the story in those? There isn't one. There can't be, other than something really general because there are too many peoplecoming in at different times to have the same level of story.

I think I had more to say, but I've been waiting on the frelling registration so long, I forgot. If I remember, I'll be back.

Matthew
11th May 2003, 09:13
Chris said that there are no current plans for SR3 or BO3.

He and Amy also said that LOK-D is NOT the last game in the series. As long as the series remains popular.

SO HELP AND SPREAD THE WORD! :D

- Matthew

N0V4
11th May 2003, 09:45
Originally posted by Future's Scribe
If they do make another, I pray(to CR, I guess, being an atheist) that it isn't an online role playing game. Where is the story in those? There isn't one. There can't be, other than something really general because there are too many peoplecoming in at different times to have the same level of story.

I disagree.
In MMORPG's you dont just play teh level and dont make any choices.
YOU DO make em....its like playing AD&D.
The story of your character depends on YOU!
YOU make the choices and YOU make the story.

I think I know why you dont like it THAT much.....because you are only one of the pawns in a MUCH bigger story.....you would like to be someone that is important.

Yeah, that cant happen :D.

If you try playing AD&D with the right people ( wich means roleplaying and not making jokes all the time) than you would have lots of fun.
Try playing Asherons Call2 roleplaying you WILL love it.
If someone comes up to you saying "YO SUP DUDE!" you answer him saying "I beg your pardon but I didnt understand that. Can you speak the common language?"
Or if you are roplaying an evil character you answer "If thou art speaking to me I would talk in common or alse hold thy tongue before I rip your longs out of your living chest!"
(Thou,Thy etc...only use it for irritanting someone because talking like that is saying you are above him)

See how much fun it can be :D

blincoln
11th May 2003, 09:53
I fully agree with Future's Scribe. I really don't care for MMORPGs at all.

willow
11th May 2003, 09:59
I can dig an MMORPG... but for LoK? I don't think I like that idea too much.

Kinda like... I sure do love pizza... and I love me some tacos... but a pizza taco? nope. not for da willow.

Future's Scribe
11th May 2003, 10:08
Mmmm... Pizza Tacos, but they have to be soft tacos. I don't really like crunchy pizza crusts.

EDIT:NOV, the point is that an MMORPG wouldn't be Legacy of Kain. It is something specific and that is not an MMORPG. You have certain expectations when playing LoK. Could you really see those being met in an MMORPG?

blincoln
11th May 2003, 10:15
Basically if it's online-only, I have no interest. I like to be able to revisit my favourite games down the road, and I can't do that if it's an online game whose servers were taken down because it wasn't popular anymore.