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mercurypitt
15th Apr 2003, 23:52
just playing around with the game i decided to continue after i beat the computer. I was running around killing reminents of the defeated forces and decided to have fun by burning my troops alive in grass fires.:D with only four chieftains and 8 archers my population count was at 103/500. i thought that all the towers and towns were adding to my count so i burned them too. my count remained at 103/500, so i killed my cheiftains and the rest of my archers only to have the count drop to 87/500.
hmmmm
all my forces were dead, no towers or villages remained, so why did my count read 87/500?
i figured it was because the game was over and the program wasn't reading properly, so im about to do the same but not finish the game this way it may prove we could be cheated of valuable poulation points.
oh and has any one else noticed that the computer, no matter what level, throws a few big attacks and then stop trying?
i have. with all the available villages it seems the computer only grabs a handful and thats it. i find that the computer is too easy to beat. all you have to do i survive a few attacks and you got him beat. I would love to play some one who is between intermidiate and advanced, let me know.
i will get back with the results to the poulation conspierisy.

ps. my spelling sucks, i know.

mercurypitt
16th Apr 2003, 07:13
ok, so, to reply to my own thread, it is true. if you have troops and demote them and those troops die, it will only subtract the present villager count. for example, i created an army with nothing but barbarian calvary, this means 10 troops worth 48 villagers a piece(480) two chiefs at 5 a piece(10) and a scout with a priest at 5 each(10), this totals 500. it took me a while to get this to work in the game. SOOOOO.... i demoted all of the calvary in to infantry which would normally cost 32 a piece to make. Then i killed all of them but a chief. I dont know what you think, but, to me it would seem fair that i would have a count of 5/500......
NOPE.:mad:
i ended up with 165/500..... HUH?
it seems that the game doesn't take into effect that the demoted troops are actually worth 48 not 32, when they are killed it subtracts 32 leaving 16 points un accounted for and remains on your total. Me being the curious type i continued to do this untill i could not create any more troops, leaving my chief alive so the game would'nt end. here's what happened...
i created 6 more barbarian calvary at 48 a piece and ended up with a total of 453/500. demoted and killed them and had 271/500. All i had was a chief, a very expensive chief. again, i created 4 more, 463/500, demote and kill, 391/500. i did this untill i had one chief and a population count of 455/500.
At this point i could only have 1 CHIEF, 1 WARRIOR, 1 DRUID, 1 SCOUT....bringing a grand total of 498/500.:confused:
How long do you think you would last?
i dont know if this was meant to be as a penalty for demoting or just a bug, either way demoting troops is not a good idea so be careful if you have to or you wont be able to have much of an army to fight with. Points are valuable, so use them wisely.

pleasant dreams ;)

silvercue
16th Apr 2003, 08:15
I don't see why demoting troops should drop their pop count. If their initial cost = 60 to train/recruit then that should stay the same. Demoting should be a last resort when you have no auxiliary troops to take a town and their should be a penalty. Other wise no one would make them - just demote when they want a town.

Random
16th Apr 2003, 13:23
Nice work, mercury. I don't remember this being mentioned in any documentation, so I doubt it's intentional. And since you can end up with a full population with just 4 troops in actuality, it sounds like a bug.

mercurypitt
16th Apr 2003, 18:14
silvercue,
i think you mixed up. when you create a troop that cost 48 villager's your population count is 48/500. if you demote them to a LESSER value troop which is infantry your count should respectively read 32/500. right? ok so lets say there is a penalty and your count stays at 48/500, fine i can deal with that, however if that troop dies your count will read 16/500. even though you have no troops the 16 remains because they originally cost 48, the game subtracts the current value which is 32 leaving 16. so if you do this enough times you wont be able to produce any troops even though you dont have any.
as for the situation of people creating higher value troops and demoteing them seems a little redundant, infantry dies alot faster than most troops so why you would create powerful troops just to demote them doesn't make sense. infantry cost less and takes less time to create so why you would want to is beyond me. although if these are your tactics, id love to play you sometime.:D
also, people would make them because you need them to build towers, catapults and ballista's, i would rather save time and points by creating them from the village rather than demote a higher value and time consuming troop.
sorry if i didn't explain it well enough before, maybe this will help you see my point. many time i sat there in desperate need for a certain troop but could not because i had insufficiant control points, every little point can count.;)

prefect
17th Apr 2003, 00:21
hmm i wonder if anyone gives a damn. dont be overcritical of TINY issues. i find it funny that you have an angry face in there. if you dont like the bug then dont play the game.

Random
17th Apr 2003, 03:08
Originally posted by prefect
hmm i wonder if anyone gives a damn. dont be overcritical of TINY issues. i find it funny that you have an angry face in there. if you dont like the bug then dont play the game.

:confused: This forum is a great way to let Pyro know about bugs in the game. Why should we have to live with bugs like this when there's a chance it might get fixed? This isn't a 'tiny issue' either. It's feasible that a player could be cheated out of 100 or so troops because of this, which could easily make the difference between winning and losing.

mercurypitt
17th Apr 2003, 04:31
i dont see how i was being over critical. i was meerly explaining how the bug effects the game. i never said it was a bad game nor did i say i would never play it, i was saying be careful about demoting your troop's because you sacrifice valueable points. NOW im say dont put words in my mouth and makeing an issue about me making an issue is doing exactly what you were where trying to criticise, in other words I DONT GIVE A DAMN ABOUT YOUR REPLY!
or maybe i do...
i dont know ...
the leafs lost...
im depressed...
im going away now...
and die....
somewhere...
dont know where....
but definetly not here...
maybe over there....
:(

prefect
17th Apr 2003, 05:00
im not sure what your point is, because frankly, if there was a tower of proper english, you would be the plane that crashed into it.

"meerly" explaining how a bug effects the game? thanks, i couldent figure out the effects of this bug for myself. look at you. you had to ressurect garbage math to explain a bug NO ONE would have noticed, yet you choose to post on Eido's message board as opposed to actually emailing the people WHO MADE THE GAME. Eidos PRODUCES the game. do you think that the forum administrators for Eidos are going to send a nicely written technical bug report for you? no. nice job.

well: youre both wrong. It doesnt 'cheat' you out of anything. you fail to realize that this bug effects EVERYONE, thus every idiot who demotes all his troops is at a marked disadvantage. why the hell are you demoting anyway? i have not once had to, or even WANTED to demote my troops. why the hell make them worse? what good are auxiliary infantry anyway? why dont you just build the units you need at the time?

once you "use" citizens you cant put them back. there are still 30 people in the legion. way to go.

mercurypitt
17th Apr 2003, 05:14
i dont know exactly what your problem is, but the maturity level you possess is clearly shown by taking cheap shots at peoples lack of intelligence.
second, i did not write this thread for you and by the way you are not the centre of the universe.
i was curious about the bug and examined it, rather than put the bug in a sentence i decided to explain it so very little questions were un answered, oh and some times developers do check forums out, so if by chance they read this they may fix the problem or explain why.
i am truely sorry that i wasn't born with a copy of praetorians in my mouth and there have been occasions that i did demote. I am certain that there are people who demote quite often and this information may help.
SOOOOO....
unless you have something constructive to say i would appreciate you taking you supreme attitude elsewhere, your not welcome here.
thanks for wasting my time:D

mercurypitt
17th Apr 2003, 05:34
once you "use" citizens you cant put them back. there are still 30 people in the legion. way to go.


oh and one more thing....
what are you talking about here?
i was talking about the citizen value of a troop. not how much your village can produce, this statement of yours really makes no sense, or maybe im just dumb for not having proper english, of which by the way is my second languge, so i believe im doing fairly well for a second language.

but then again, should i give a damn?;)

bond0bhave
17th Apr 2003, 10:36
Wooooah up everyone.

calm down, it is just a game, not life and death. Thanks for noticing the bug, it will make me not want to demote troops as much. I often have found that when I take a town out I dont have a troop of aux inf handy, so I demote, but now thanks to the math I wont because I "loose" troops when I do.

Developers often check out forums, they liek to know what is going on in games and look at feedback from the people who buy it.

MapMaker Monkey
17th Apr 2003, 13:35
Hi mercurypitt,

Thanks for the heads up on that. :) Some of the people who worked on the game at Eidos pointed out this thread and we will pass on your bug find to Pyro. http://forums.eidosgames.com/images/icons/icon14.gif

prefect, stop being aggressive towards other forum members, the Terms of Use clearly state that anyone who does so will be banned. So chill out before someone shows you the door.

MMM

mercurypitt
17th Apr 2003, 16:15
i must apologise for my lack of ethic's. everyone has a right to there opinion, negative or positive. any how, i think i forgot to mention that i only did this with the barbarians, dont know if that matter's or not, i'll will try it with the other two.

Mark OHearn
17th Apr 2003, 17:18
Thanks mercurypitt for taking the time to discover this bug. Notwithstanding this problem, which may be fixed if Pyro is still involved with this great game, there are important times when demoting is strategic.

For instance, towards the end of a game where your enemy only has one village left, and has setup towers and seiges - in other words, is making his/her last stand. Often at this point I might have many warriors (Barbarians) left.

Attacking would be pointless (though I have foolishly tried), and only result in great losses, which, while I can rebuild later if I have the population(s) to drawn upon, gives the opponent honour points to use to build better units (if he has any population left - which he will as time goes on and I waste more warriors to try to take his well-defended village).

Now, at this point in the game, I'll demote some warrior troops to aux and build seige weapons and towers to contain them in their present location.

I suspect the bug won't hurt my troop production because it is late in the game, and I significantly out number the enemy.

There is another time in the game that I demote, but that's been a tactic that has been rather effective in a number of 1 vs 1 online games that my "friend" TacticalSkirmish has enjoyed :)

Thanks again mercurypitt for your observation!

prefect
17th Apr 2003, 21:42
Originally posted by mercurypitt
i dont know exactly what your problem is, but the maturity level you possess is clearly shown by taking cheap shots at peoples lack of intelligence

enough said.

Spaceknight
17th Apr 2003, 21:58
chill out guys,

This is supposed to be a friendly forum.

You want to get your aggressions out, play the game.

ROM

prefect
18th Apr 2003, 00:28
:| fine, im sorry.

mercurypitt
18th Apr 2003, 04:19
(could he be any more pretentious)

any how i tried it with the egyptions and roman's, had the same effect. i also noticed a hunter flaw but i believe someone else wrote about that.
just so people understand this bug is not a huge issue but it can make a difference when you need a certain troop and are unable to create because of a few points. This was the only reason why i wrote this thread, to let people know.
once again i apologise to any one who was offended by me or my lack of proper english. im done with this thread.
who wants to buy it?

Athos
18th Apr 2003, 05:14
Hey don't get so down on yourself cause someone made a few inapropriate comments. You found a bug and you are contributing to Praetorians being a better game. Not many people can say that.

silvercue
18th Apr 2003, 09:41
Originally posted by Athos
You found a bug and you are contributing to Praetorians being a better game. Not many people can say that.

Especially Eidos with their non-existent support :)

- oh forgot - they're releasing a patch so the game actually works online for all those that it doesn't... :D

bond0bhave
22nd Apr 2003, 08:55
What is the hunter flaw, I have a problem where my hunters will just sit and do nothing.

IN skirmishes, I place them in woods on a hill overlooking a road used by the enemy a lot. My problem is that they wont attack even if I put them on aggressive, they wait until enemy units are on them to start attacking, all other ranged units attack when they have a range, now is there something i am missing?

Also with siege towers, In the manual it says that you can use ranged units from within them, I place archers in and they dont attack anything. how do i do that?

thanks

Random
22nd Apr 2003, 10:21
Originally posted by bond0bhave
What is the hunter flaw, I have a problem where my hunters will just sit and do nothing.

IN skirmishes, I place them in woods on a hill overlooking a road used by the enemy a lot. My problem is that they wont attack even if I put them on aggressive, they wait until enemy units are on them to start attacking, all other ranged units attack when they have a range, now is there something i am missing?

Make sure they aren't set up for an ambush (check their special abilities). The Hunter flaw that I've found is described in another thread from a few days ago. I'm not sure if what you have is a bug as well....