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gears86
7th Jun 2012, 11:02
i think FFXIII is one of the best game in FF series.


i like the characters especially Vanille and Serah...


the story is good and make you wonder a lot at the first time....


the term Fal Cie and L Cie makes me confuse at first haha

PAT2K9
7th Jun 2012, 12:13
I also loved FF XIII. However, Serah and Vanille were my least liked characters in this game. They were way to childish for my taste, and I did not really like their character designs. I think that Lightning and Fang were much better characters.

Warmatcher
8th Jun 2012, 16:23
My idea is this is NOT! No more anything like the game that appassioned everyone of the RPG fans. No moving freedom, no classes or jobs and a combat style that have been adapted from FF X-2 till now and that is NOT a Final Fantasy style! Best ones are the older ones, becoming acceptable from the 6th chapter (Final Fantasy 6) and flown over its layout from Final Fantasy X-2. Writing this things cause i don't wanna see THE BEST RPG SAGA OF EVER finish eaten by the modernization, i just finished FF XIII that i haven't liked and i just bought FF5 cause is only the one of the best in the PSN Store, maybe only the remake of classics will be a good idea, and maybe in other languages like ITALIAN too. I hope you will gain my advice as a friendly tip and NOT as a critical^^. thank you again for the best times passed in front of the TV, bye

iambasho777
8th Jun 2012, 17:15
There is nothing "friendly tip"ish about this topic. All you've done is make an a** out of yourself by pointlessly flaming the best selling FF game yet. Yes, it is a Final Fantasy game. Saying it isn't is either displaying narrow-minded elitism or illiteracy. No, it is not the best game of the series. We all know that. It is strictly linear for 90% of the game, but that makes it so much more enjoyable when you finally reach CH11. It does a lot better job at invoking emotion that the majority of the other FFs and makes you empathize with the characters, which is the POINT of a RPG.


If you're saying this "isn't a Final Fantasy game" because of the linearity and new gameplay aspects, they you should also be saying 3 (added the ability to change jobs), 7 (added 3D graphics), 8 (enemies leveled up with you), 10 (added voice acting), 11 (MMO), and 12 (took out the battle screen) "aren't Final Fantasies" because they innovated the technology and gameplay aspects of the game. Every series evolves, if we still got the turn-based system or 2D graphics of the games of old the FF series would flop because those games don't sell well anymore.


Also, please work on your English and proofread your posts here. It took me five or six reads of that to understand what you were attempting to say.

RatchetGuyClanks
8th Jun 2012, 17:45
Just because Square-Enix has been creative and made it's own unique (and awesome) game doesn't mean it's not a FF title. I think after twenty-five years of Final Fantasy, they decided that introducing a new way to play their games would be a good idea which I agree with whole-heartedly. You can still level up and do similar things in traditional RPGs; it's just switched up in fun, unique ways.


I'm sorry if you don't like the game, but all I can say is that if you like the old-school FFs then play those. If you don't want to delve deeper into the great storyline and awesome mechanics of XIII and XIII-2 then don't complain about it and find another game, lol.


-RGC

Squall-Nathan
8th Jun 2012, 17:59
There is nothing "friendly tip"ish about this topic. All you've done is make an a** out of yourself by pointlessly flaming the best selling FF game yet. Yes, it is a Final Fantasy game. Saying it isn't is either displaying narrow-minded elitism or illiteracy. No, it is not the best game of the series. We all know that. It is strictly linear for 90% of the game, but that makes it so much more enjoyable when you finally reach CH11. It does a lot better job at invoking emotion that the majority of the other FFs and makes you empathize with the characters, which is the POINT of a RPG.


If you're saying this "isn't a Final Fantasy game" because of the linearity and new gameplay aspects, they you should also be saying 3 (added the ability to change jobs), 7 (added 3D graphics), 8 (enemies leveled up with you), 10 (added voice acting), 11 (MMO), and 12 (took out the battle screen) "aren't Final Fantasies" because they innovated the technology and gameplay aspects of the game. Every series evolves, if we still got the turn-based system or 2D graphics of the games of old the FF series would flop because those games don't sell well anymore.


Also, please work on your English and proofread your posts here. It took me five or six reads of that to understand what you were attempting to say.





Fully agreed. It's as if some people want the same formula for every game; innovation ceases and gamers lose interest. Square Enix is doing a great job of keeping the Final Fantasy series modern and appealing.

member_10822883
8th Jun 2012, 18:08
My idea is this is NOT! No more anything like the game that appassioned everyone of the RPG fans. No moving freedom, no classes or jobs and a combat style that have been adapted from FF X-2 till now and that is NOT a Final Fantasy style! Best ones are the older ones, becoming acceptable from the 6th chapter (Final Fantasy 6) and flown over its layout from Final Fantasy X-2. Writing this things cause i don't wanna see THE BEST RPG SAGA OF EVER finish eaten by the modernization, i just finished FF XIII that i haven't liked and i just bought FF5 cause is only the one of the best in the PSN Store, maybe only the remake of classics will be a good idea, and maybe in other languages like ITALIAN too. I hope you will gain my advice as a friendly tip and NOT as a critical^^. thank you again for the best times passed in front of the TV, bye



Paragraphs would be a good start if you want to make an effective argument. Like others, I had a hard time reading this.


Also, there are "job classes" if we're being honest. The Paradigm Shift is simply a variation on that, and yeah, it draws a lot of influence from X-2's system. Some are going to like it and others won't. I've always admired Square's insistence on contually changing and trying new things in their releases. I don't always like the changes, but I appreciate that they're not selling me the same game over and over again. Speaking of which...


As for rereleasing or remaking the classics, Square does that fairly often. In Italian too. I don't know whether you're in North America or Europe, but the PAL releases all should have an Italian option. FFV included.


ETA: While I can understand the linearity complaint, I still find it a little interesting given the series has never truly been non-linear. Even when it did offer more freedom, your options generally came down to following the main story's instructions or going off into territory where higher leveled monsters would shred you apart.

member_10027469
8th Jun 2012, 18:15
As much as I agree with Warmatcher about not liking the game, I strongly disagree it should even be a question whether or not this is really a Final Fantasy game. As mentioned above, practically every Final Fantasy had some changes and or introduced new elements of game play, whether radical or not.





This is hardly the place to nitpick about a Final Fantasy title you didn't like. It really is, in a way, offensive to do so specially on this site, the maker of the game. If you didn't like it, then play the ones you did or go find some other RPGs you'll enjoy and stop posting useless topics that are just going agitate the fans of the game into a frenzy.





"advice as a friendly tip"

Zench-XIII
8th Jun 2012, 18:24
Though the game was linear from the very beginning to the end of Chapter 10, that didn't stop me from liking the game. I enjoyed the fast-paced battle system, and the story was its strong point (at least to me). I was more interested in the characters rather than comparing the game with the classic FF games. Innovation is needed, otherwise the franchise would lose its place in the market.


And let's be honest, a thread like this one is bound to create nothing but conflict and disagreement.

Copedw25
8th Jun 2012, 18:45
Admit it. You're just mad because Orphan whooped your ass. Don't feel bad. I raged hard too when I couldn't beat Omega Weapon in Final Fantasy VIII.

member_10074094
8th Jun 2012, 19:51
Hmmm... there are several things here that I agree with from both sides... and things I disagree with.





1) I give credit to SE for trying to be innovative, undeniably change needs to happen or the series will die. However, this game had a neat idea that was poorly implemented. I haven't played 13-2 yet and am hoping for improvements there, but 13's gameplay revolved around the role shifting and, again while this was a cool idea, it was poorly implemented. Grinding for experience and rewards took too long because the only enemies that were worth fighting were mini bosses (so grinding took way to long, either fighting many weak enemies or fewer long battles against stronger ones). Only the real bosses provided a challenge enough to shift regularly, but even then the shifting was not required often enough. The X button was mashed and auto battle was selected way to frequently.





2) the story makes no sense. While the nouns that were created where already pointlessly similar to each other (L'Cie, Cieth, Fal'Cie is just asking to confuse people), the characters insisted that they would NOT fight because it would destroy cocoon, but the only antagonist that was presented for them to fight against was the enemy they didn't want to fight, yet went charging at him anyways instead of running in the opposite direction. The characters where, for the most part, the same whiny teenagers we can see in any anime. The all had their moments, but more often than not the story was more of a drama than FF players are used to. And while this might be another attempt to inovate the series, many older fans and even newer ones find this game in particular unappealing (and it annoys most westerners).





3) If the sales where higher for this game than any other, consider a few things. It was on multiple consoles. It looked amazing. As much as the gameplay isn't really all that fun, it is flashy and looks good. I can't tell you how many people I know who have bought the game and never beat it, because they saw the opening cutscene and some fights at a friend's house. XIII-2 hasn't been out nearly as long, but the sales are still drastically lower. There is a reason for this. Even if XIII-2 is an improvement, XIII left a bad taste in the mouth of many gamers.





4) Why would anyone cry against Orphan... FFXIII was an easy game compared to some of the older games. Comparing Orphan to Omega weapon makes no sense either, Orphan is a final boss for a story and Omega Weapon is the ultimate lvl 100 boss of a seperate game...





Lastly, I want to say that the replies here are more insulting and offensive than the original post. Forums exist to give opinions. He shared that he did not think the game was as good as the older games, but I don't see how that is in any way offensive. Someone even said that you shouldn't complain about a game in the developer's forums... the developers actually WANT to see customer feedback, you know. Good and bad. Clearly, you have never been to a Bioware forum. I realize that, speaking from personal experience on this site, SE fans and members tend to find zero faults in SE games, while other developers have a much more critical fanbase, but the occasional poster who disagrees with the general consensus should not be offensive to you, and is not "making an @$$ of himself". He said he doesn't consider ff13 part of the series. I don't consider the mmo's to be part of the series myself. I don't see how any of what he wrote was offensive, it was just an opinion about a game (I never understood how insulting a game could insult a fan of the game, its not like he is saying YOU ALL STUPID FOR LIKING FF13)

iambasho777
8th Jun 2012, 21:20
Hmmm... there are several things here that I agree with from both sides... and things I disagree with.





1) I give credit to SE for trying to be innovative, undeniably change needs to happen or the series will die. However, this game had a neat idea that was poorly implemented. I haven't played 13-2 yet and am hoping for improvements there, but 13's gameplay revolved around the role shifting and, again while this was a cool idea, it was poorly implemented. Grinding for experience and rewards took too long because the only enemies that were worth fighting were mini bosses (so grinding took way to long, either fighting many weak enemies or fewer long battles against stronger ones). Only the real bosses provided a challenge enough to shift regularly, but even then the shifting was not required often enough. The X button was mashed and auto battle was selected way to frequently.






I agree that one could abuse the auto battle system if you were just wanting a button masher, but I and many others rarely if ever used it. The AI was horrible, and selecting abilities always proved superior.






2) the story makes no sense. While the nouns that were created where already pointlessly similar to each other (L'Cie, Cieth, Fal'Cie is just asking to confuse people), the characters insisted that they would NOT fight because it would destroy cocoon, but the only antagonist that was presented for them to fight against was the enemy they didn't want to fight, yet went charging at him anyways instead of running in the opposite direction. The characters where, for the most part, the same whiny teenagers we can see in any anime. The all had their moments, but more often than not the story was more of a drama than FF players are used to. And while this might be another attempt to inovate the series, many older fans and even newer ones find this game in particular unappealing (and it annoys most westerners).






Those nouns were created that way to show their relationship. The cast returned to Cocoon in the end to stop the Cavalry from destroying it, and then decided to try to find a way to stop Barthandelus so that the mess that was happening to Cocoon would never happen again. The only character that was whiny in the least was Hope, and after chapter 10 even he cleaned up his act. Even though I personally did not enjoy this game nearly as much as any other FF I've played, I can see why a ton of people enjoy it.






3) If the sales where higher for this game than any other, consider a few things. It was on multiple consoles. It looked amazing. As much as the gameplay isn't really all that fun, it is flashy and looks good. I can't tell you how many people I know who have bought the game and never beat it, because they saw the opening cutscene and some fights at a friend's house. XIII-2 hasn't been out nearly as long, but the sales are still drastically lower. There is a reason for this. Even if XIII-2 is an improvement, XIII left a bad taste in the mouth of many gamers.






I only used that point to show that it has a lot of support. I am aware of why it sold well, but that does not change the fact that it did. It was also quite well received, which is somewhat proven by the fact that Hope now has the largest fangirl following since Cloud. The gameplay, to me at least, was a blast. It took a ton of strategy both before and during the battles to succeed. I would like to see someone kill, say, a shaoulong gui with just the auto-battle command. It's nearly impossible. Also, the real reasons XIII-2 isn't selling as well? It didn't get all that great of reviews and it's a time travel game. A lot of people I know that loved XIII refused to buy XIII-2 not because it left a bad taste in their mouths, but because they stay away from time travel games.






4) Why would anyone cry against Orphan... FFXIII was an easy game compared to some of the older games. Comparing Orphan to Omega weapon makes no sense either, Orphan is a final boss for a story and Omega Weapon is the ultimate lvl 100 boss of a seperate game...






While this isn't the best comparison, I understand why he made it. Omega Weapon is something you can accidentally come across in Ultimecia's Castle. This makes it the hardest boss one is likely to fight. Due to the extensive mission list, most of the more casual gamers won't make it to the long guis making the adamantoise and Orphan the toughest fights they are likely to see.






Lastly, I want to say that the replies here are more insulting and offensive than the original post. Forums exist to give opinions. He shared that he did not think the game was as good as the older games, but I don't see how that is in any way offensive. Someone even said that you shouldn't complain about a game in the developer's forums... the developers actually WANT to see customer feedback, you know. Good and bad. Clearly, you have never been to a Bioware forum. I realize that, speaking from personal experience on this site, SE fans and members tend to find zero faults in SE games, while other developers have a much more critical fanbase, but the occasional poster who disagrees with the general consensus should not be offensive to you, and is not "making an @$$ of himself". He said he doesn't consider ff13 part of the series. I don't consider the mmo's to be part of the series myself. I don't see how any of what he wrote was offensive, it was just an opinion about a game (I never understood how insulting a game could insult a fan of the game, its not like he is saying YOU ALL STUPID FOR LIKING FF13)





He did not "share that he did not think it was as good as the older games". If he did, that would have created a constructive discussion of the faults in FFXIII and ways other player work around them (for gameplay faults, at least). He said it should not be called a Final Fantasy title because he did not enjoy it. He did not come in here to share an opinion, he came here to be a troll. I don't like trolls, which is why I was slightly rude towards him. If you think SE has a non-critical fanbase, you need to actually meet the SE fanbase. A lot of the people I encounter, especially in real life and GameFAQs, that are SE fans are more critical of SE than the majority of people who play a SE game here and there. Here we gather because we all enjoy the majority of SE games, so you'll only really encounter the most supportive fans. Also, nitpicky bit here but Final Fantasy isn't technically a series. It's a collection of titles featuring similar elements, but the majority of them are entirely unrelated. This is why it is idiotic to say that a specific title is "not an FF game". There is nothing that makes something a FF game other than the title of the game. I didn't call him stupid for not liking the game, I called him narrow-minded and said he was being an elitist for declaring that FFXIII should not belong in the FF franchise simply because he did not like it.

member_10074094
8th Jun 2012, 21:50
if this was trolling, it was a bad attempt at it. He actually does say that it is "his idea"(opinion) that it is not considered part of the series (which he has every right to say; again, I say the mmo's aren't part of the series because, to me, the main numbered final fantasy series is made up of single-player story driven games, and therefore FF mmo's are spinoffs and not main entrees to the series for me) and lists reasons he thinks so, comparing it to FFX-2, FF6, and lastly FF5. He did have some incorrect information (as several people rightly pointed out) but in general it feels like the rude responses are unnecesary and uncalled for, and if he is indeed a troll (again, it is a bad attempt at it, the fact that its his only post on the website suggests that it is a troll, but most trolls come better prepared and would actually target a game that is less conroversial than FFXIII, which actually has polarized the fanbase; he would target a game with more excitable fanboys like FF7, where he knows people will get mad)but if he is indeed a troll, then the rude responses MAY be deserved (again, I don't see how anything he said would offend anyone here) but rude responses to a troll serve to feed the troll, an angry response is the reason the troll trolls to begin with, and long paragraphs countering what he said is further proof to him that he angerd you. Lastly, two wrongs don't make a right, so the rudeness wouldn't be justified to begin with.





And I have seen seriously critical fans of final fantasy. I have also seen the massive numbers of over-dedicated fans who outnumber the critical ones. But my comment about that was because someone said that this is the wrong forum to post grievances that he has with FFXIII because it will anger the fans into a frenzy (if it is a troll, he is correct; if not, then he actually does have the right to post his issues with the game in this forum).

iambasho777
8th Jun 2012, 22:10
My problem with the post was that it sounds like an attack on the game itself, rather than an attempt to start a discussion. If he wants to rag on the game in such a manner, this is not the place to do so; a blog is better suited for that. These forums are for support and constructive criticisms of SE games. You are entitled to the opinion of not thinking a game is an "actual" FF game, but this really is not a good place for one to state those opinions in such a way that it can not foster an appropriate discussion. Would you go to SE's 11 and 14 boards and go "these aren't real FF games, take my friendly advice and don't play them"? I would hope not. That is basically what he is doing here, and it is if not trolling, then at the least he is unnecessarily flaming the game at an improper place to do so.


Also, I'm actually not angered in the least. I just have an abrasive attitude, always have. I didn't intend to be rude when I was typing, I just didn't bother to fix it when I proofread it because I didn't really care too much about being polite to him because he was being a bit of a troll. Had he framed his post to foster a discussion rather than attempt to dissuade people from the game, I would have tried a bit harder to not be rude.

member_10074094
8th Jun 2012, 22:24
having dabbled in trolling in the past, and having played MOBA's like League of Legends and seen real trolls at work, I have to say that this is a bad attempt at trolling if it is indeed that (his post implies that it might come across as trolling only because he is more familiar with Italian than English), again I personally would target FF7 or KKBBS to really anger people. If he is a troll, I aplogize for arguing it. I hope that my own reply, with my reasons for disliking FF13, was at least more acceptable and contributive to the discussion.





I am wondering if the OP will return to this thread at all, however. It will be interesting to see what s/he has to say after all this. If s/he returns at all.

YoshiKatYoko
9th Jun 2012, 01:38
Hmmm... there are several things here that I agree with from both sides... and things I disagree with.





1) I give credit to SE for trying to be innovative, undeniably change needs to happen or the series will die. However, this game had a neat idea that was poorly implemented. I haven't played 13-2 yet and am hoping for improvements there, but 13's gameplay revolved around the role shifting and, again while this was a cool idea, it was poorly implemented. Grinding for experience and rewards took too long because the only enemies that were worth fighting were mini bosses (so grinding took way to long, either fighting many weak enemies or fewer long battles against stronger ones). Only the real bosses provided a challenge enough to shift regularly, but even then the shifting was not required often enough. The X button was mashed and auto battle was selected way to frequently.


Auto-Battle wuht? You need to play this game more mate. You don't just "auto-battle" anything. You don't the game mechanics yet, either. If you played the game solely and competitively, you won't complain about auto-battles and grinding - 'cause they're rather easy in a good player.


2) the story makes no sense. While the nouns that were created where already pointlessly similar to each other (L'Cie, Cieth, Fal'Cie is just asking to confuse people), the characters insisted that they would NOT fight because it would destroy cocoon, but the only antagonist that was presented for them to fight against was the enemy they didn't want to fight, yet went charging at him anyways instead of running in the opposite direction. The characters where, for the most part, the same whiny teenagers we can see in any anime. The all had their moments, but more often than not the story was more of a drama than FF players are used to. And while this might be another attempt to inovate the series, many older fans and even newer ones find this game in particular unappealing (and it annoys most westerners).


What do you actually want to have in a Final Fantasy story? A love story?! Those nouns and names are MEANT to be made like that, so people can explore and need understanding more of the story itself. Some people don't even read the Datalog, which is an ingame function so the story can't be confusing at all. Those people just want an easy story that can be relatively shown in cutscenes - which are poor gaming people.


3) If the sales where higher for this game than any other, consider a few things. It was on multiple consoles. It looked amazing. As much as the gameplay isn't really all that fun, it is flashy and looks good. I can't tell you how many people I know who have bought the game and never beat it, because they saw the opening cutscene and some fights at a friend's house. XIII-2 hasn't been out nearly as long, but the sales are still drastically lower. There is a reason for this. Even if XIII-2 is an improvement, XIII left a bad taste in the mouth of many gamers.


Sales don't determine the likeness of the game itself. I don't have a PS3 back then, and I'm watching through Youtube. I got a little surprised because it's a lot of different from XII (which is the game I recently played before the XIII), and I'm complaining it's linear. But after some while, I got a demo for the game - and I love it like everything else. You know, people who only don't beat the game are "nostalgic old FF" players. They are comparing the game through the means of the older games. C'mon, I'm sick of that.


4) Why would anyone cry against Orphan... FFXIII was an easy game compared to some of the older games. Comparing Orphan to Omega weapon makes no sense either, Orphan is a final boss for a story and Omega Weapon is the ultimate lvl 100 boss of a seperate game...


Easy game? Lvl. 100 boss? Here's a deal - try defeating Adamantoise, Long Gui, Vercingetorix, and ShaoLong Gui's in XIII. I don't give a crap if you don't know how to beat them - relatively because you don't like Paradigm Shifts at all. You need good brains to have a good paradigm. AND THIS GAME is NOT about getting THE HIGHER status or whatever (like FFXIII). In this game, even though you are best in equipment, but your skills and strategy are crap, you don't gain a win.


Lastly, I want to say that the replies here are more insulting and offensive than the original post. Forums exist to give opinions. He shared that he did not think the game was as good as the older games, but I don't see how that is in any way offensive. Someone even said that you shouldn't complain about a game in the developer's forums... the developers actually WANT to see customer feedback, you know. Good and bad. Clearly, you have never been to a Bioware forum. I realize that, speaking from personal experience on this site, SE fans and members tend to find zero faults in SE games, while other developers have a much more critical fanbase, but the occasional poster who disagrees with the general consensus should not be offensive to you, and is not "making an @$$ of himself". He said he doesn't consider ff13 part of the series. I don't consider the mmo's to be part of the series myself. I don't see how any of what he wrote was offensive, it was just an opinion about a game (I never understood how insulting a game could insult a fan of the game, its not like he is saying YOU ALL STUPID FOR LIKING FF13)


That's his problem. He doesn't know what "he" is trying to say - he's all mouth and no brain.






See for yourself.

member_10074094
9th Jun 2012, 10:08
to your first point... two of your three characters are on an autobattle system. If a boss has been throughly scanned, the autobattle system is perfectly fine for your main character as well (as far as the story goes). completing the story requires, like all FF games, preperation (which paradgims you will use for which boss/portion of the game) and granted, shifting them when it is necessary takes brains. And you are right, auto-battles and grinding are easy... thats the problem. easy is also boring. I even said that I had fun during some boss fights... but getting to that point wasn't fun. It was tedious.





what I want in the story... I don't understand why you suggest a love story. FF13 does have a love story in it... so do other FF games. And I never mentioned that anyways... so I don't get why you throw it in my face like it is supposed to be an insult. And you're right, I don't read the datalog. The background information contained in it is "lore" meant for players who are more interested in the history of the world than a player who isn't all that interested (myself). I am more interested in the lore of FF12, Skyrim, and Mass Effect, but even in those cases I don't read the additional information. It is not required to understand the plot that the characters in the game I am currently playing... it is background info. If I am required to read it or never understand the plot... then something was missing from the actual plot. Do you get a "datalog" in a movie or tv show? But I don't see how that justifies the similar nouns. Basho for example pointed out that the point is to stress the similarity between the words... this is a better explanation than telling me to read the datalog. The nouns are still confusing to a new player, which is remedied by the repetition of these nouns until you remember the difference between them... but it has only been a month and I already forget whether the characters are Fal'cie or L'cie, and which of the two categories Barthandalus and Orhpan fall under.





The people who didn't beat the game aren't nostalgic old ff players. the ones I was referring to were experiencing their first final fantasy game. Many "nostalgic old FF players" actually beat the game. And yes, I do think the older games where better. And it isn't because they were older. I believe in innovation... I even said that. I am extrelemly excited about FFV13. and I hope to get XIII-2 soon because of improvments made to it, I also said that I think 13 had a good system but was implemented poorly because the shifting wasn't required often enough and auto battles kept the gameplay outside of my actual control. The point is, the game is about michromanaging your party's roles more than the actual actions they take... this was the goal of the new system. My problem with it is, not that I don't like the shifting, but that the shifting was not required often enough for me to be in actual control of the game. And I don't play games to not be in control. It was a good idea, but needed refinement. From what i have heard, 13-2 had many improvments in the direction I was hoping for.





"Easy game? Lvl. 100 boss? Here's a deal - try defeating Adamantoise, Long Gui, Vercingetorix, and ShaoLong Gui's in XIII. I don't give a crap if you don't know how to beat them - relatively because you don't like Paradigm Shifts at all. You need good brains to have a good paradigm. AND THIS GAME is NOT about getting THE HIGHER status or whatever (like FFXIII). In this game, even though you are best in equipment, but your skills and strategy are crap, you don't gain a win."






I think you mean FFXII since you mentioned that earlier... and I think you mean stats, not status... and lvl 100 boss was a poor choice of words from me. Omega Weapon in FFVIII is not a lvl 100 boss, because FF8 is a scaling game so "endgame boss" is more accurate. I am assuming the bosses you listed are also endgame bosses. My point is, Orphan is NOT an endgame boss. Omega Weapon is. The author of this comment is implying that, while he rages at the difficulty of an endgame boss, the OP rages at a end-story boss who is much easier. It is an insulting comment to the OP. And I appreciate the implication that I don't have a good brain because I don't have a good paradigm. But, like all FF games, XIII is a numbers game where your stats do matter, and the way you prepare for the battle matters... like other ff games. Your paradigm setup is part of your preperation. the cool thing about ff13 is that it is an editable part of you setup, something that you can change to change your strategy, wheras FFXII's preperation depended on the liscence board, which was fun at the start of the game but once you reached the end, every character had every buff so there was no variety in them except for the gear that you gave them (which could be changed in combat if you did need to change your strategy).






lastly, he does know what he is saying. He posts very coherent flaws he had with the game. And he compares it to other games that he believes where superior. You imply once again that you have a brain and someone else doesn't... a rather rude statement to make. Arguing shouldn't involve insulting your adversary. Even if he is no longer here to defend himself. It also only serves to feed the troll if he is a troll, as I already said, and further confirmation to him that he is getting to you.

member_10691345
9th Jun 2012, 11:42
I don't believe we are getting anywhere with this conversation. I understand that everyone has their different viewpoints on the matter, and we each want to show each other the different viewpoints, but as far I can see throughout this thread, we seem to be stuck between a rock and a hard place. In the end, we all bought FFXIII, and wether we liked it or not is solely up to ourselves, and SE want our feedback, rather negative or positive.


The only thing that actually ticks me off is right in the title of the thread. Yes, this is a Final Fantasy. No, this is not the best Final Fantasy. Truthfully, I find this one better than VIII or XII, but that is solely opinion. Likewise, I still call them 'Final Fantasy' due to the fact they are indeed part of the chronologic sequence of 'Final Fantasy'. And of course, gameplay is different between each Final Fantasy, but if it wasn't, we would just be playing the same game over and over again, wich would have become boring presumably after IV. In any case, the OP didn't simply comment negatively on the game or criticized it, he was raging on how he bought the game, played through it, and hated it. Rather than giving feedback, he instead just raged and probably talked people out of buying the game who heven't already.


Honestly, I don't care about what the OP said about the game. I liked XIII. But he did say "I hope you will gain my advice as a friendly tip and NOT as a critical^^," suggesting no one else should buy the game. I know the OP was trying to help, but it rubbed off negatively to me.


I also didn't like the way he compared FF titles. He stated the classics were better, but I have to dissagree. I played FF1 and thought is was okay. I played FFII and thought it was a bit wonky, but still a good game. I played FFIII and thought it was a bit over my head. I played FFIV, thought it was good, but also thought it was a bit wonky. I still have yet to play V or VI. I played FFVII, thought it was really good, but no in deserving a compilation. I played FFVIII, but never finished it because I got fed up with it. I playedFFIX and thought it was the best FF yet. I played FFX and thought it was fun and great for anyone to start the series. I am not goin to play the MMO FFs. I played FFXII and thought it could have been better. and lastly, I played FFXIII and thought it was an improvement from XII, but still not as good as IX. I personally beleive the later FF were better than the classics. But in the end, I don't like comparing FFs because each are almost entirly different from each other story- and gameplay-wise.


Of course, this is all entirely my opinion as I played through the series, and I still encourage everyone that is interested to play whichever FF they want to play. I just wished to state that FFXIII, by title, is a Final Fantasy. If someone feels as though the series is going downhill, simply comment on the game on its weakpoints and strong points, send it to SE, and wait for later releases. I'm sure this is what the OP intended, it just didn't seem like it the way s/he intended it to. That is all.

iambasho777
9th Jun 2012, 18:16
I think you mean FFXII since you mentioned that earlier... and I think you mean stats, not status... and lvl 100 boss was a poor choice of words from me. Omega Weapon in FFVIII is not a lvl 100 boss, because FF8 is a scaling game so "endgame boss" is more accurate.










Actually, the level scaling does not apply to Omega Weapon in FFVIII, no matter what level you are he is ALWAYS level 100, making him the only challenging part of a LLC run.


EDIT: Unless you were confusing the Ultima Weapon and Omega Weapon? Ultima is in the deserted research facility in the ocean, Omega is in Ultimecia's castle. Ultima IS scaled to your level, making him super easy to take out with meltdown/phantom train


Also, Yoshi, you can break a quote up so that your replies are where you want them to be in the quote but not part of the quote box. To end the quoted segment type:
[ / quote ]
without the spaces. To start it up again type:
[ quote ]
again with no spaces.


This way you can splice quotes up and not have your replies in the quoted content.

member_10074094
9th Jun 2012, 19:27
I think you mean FFXII since you mentioned that earlier... and I think you mean stats, not status... and lvl 100 boss was a poor choice of words from me. Omega Weapon in FFVIII is not a lvl 100 boss, because FF8 is a scaling game so "endgame boss" is more accurate.










Actually, the level scaling does not apply to Omega Weapon in FFVIII, no matter what level you are he is ALWAYS level 100, making him the only challenging part of a LLC run.


EDIT: Unless you were confusing the Ultima Weapon and Omega Weapon? Ultima is in the deserted research facility in the ocean, Omega is in Ultimecia's castle. Ultima IS scaled to your level, making him super easy to take out with meltdown/phantom train


Also, Yoshi, you can break a quote up so that your replies are where you want them to be in the quote but not part of the quote box. To end the quoted segment type:
[ / quote ]
without the spaces. To start it up again type:
[ quote ]
again with no spaces.


This way you can splice quotes up and not have your replies in the quoted content.




Yes, I saw you write that in another thread somewhere and forgot to correct myself here. My point still is, Omega is an end-game boss not an end-story boss like Orphan... the challenge of Ultimecia isn't comparable to Omega either. they are meant to be on a whole different level of challenge to the player.





EDIT: the strategy guide for FF8 has scaling stats for Omega Weapon every ten levels. Not sure if this was a mistake when they published it or not. I'm curious if you know?

iambasho777
9th Jun 2012, 19:47
I do not. I only know that when I defeated him my lowest level playthrough (I never did a lvl 7 game, too much effort to avoid exp) my party's average level was in the 40s, and I'm pretty sure scan told me he was lvl 100. I guess you can edit his level by hacking the game, or use his stats to derive what his other leveled stats could be because the equations for stats were pretty straightforward. Also, strategy guides aren't always right, I have a BradyGames Guide for KHDays, and it's missing important points and has entirely incorrect information in other areas

member_10074094
9th Jun 2012, 21:21
I do not. I only know that when I defeated him my lowest level playthrough (I never did a lvl 7 game, too much effort to avoid exp) my party's average level was in the 40s, and I'm pretty sure scan told me he was lvl 100. I guess you can edit his level by hacking the game, or use his stats to derive what his other leveled stats could be because the equations for stats were pretty straightforward. Also, strategy guides aren't always right, I have a BradyGames Guide for KHDays, and it's missing important points and has entirely incorrect information in other areas






I know it. I buy the guides for the art and my 100% completionist addiction, and I have seen plenty of mistakes (just today noticed that, in the birth by sleep guide, one of the treasure chests had japanese characters labelling the item inside it instead of saying "hi potion").





I checked to see if it was a reposting of Ultima weapons stats and omegas where actually significantly higher. also the wiki shows his lvl 1 stats (but no other levels).





Ah, I just found it: It is always at level 100 in the PlayStation version, but can be on any level in the PC version. finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Omega_Weapon... (http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Omega_Weapon_(Final_Fantasy_VIII))(Final_Fantasy_VIII)





That explains it. So he is a lvl 100 boss for psx users and an any level end-game boss for pc. Personally never played this on pc... might have to check it out.

Aerith
11th Jun 2012, 17:18
I loved this game. I don't think I can quite overstate how much. It's one of my favorites in the series. The linear nature didn't bother me at all - X's also got the linear map style, and I loved it, too. Actually, I think the way it really pressed you to keep going through the story just helped to enhance the feeling of being hunted. In fact, I kind of liked being able to go straight through the game without worrying about stopping for side quests until chapter 11, because I wanted to know what was going to happen next. I felt like the characters were some of the most human in the series, with their flaws and doubts and secrets. I loved that you had such a disconnected party in the beginning, how they didn't really get along at all, and only managed to overcome that in the course of the hardship they went through.

member_10163369
13th Jun 2012, 00:46
Good game I liked it. The only complaint i had was that you had to grind/farm for money. Other than that i enjoyed the game.


This is some of the good stuff right here....

Copedw25
13th Jun 2012, 15:52
This game was good, don't let the trolls get you down if you're iffy on purchasing it. Most of them are older gamers who want nothing more than clones of Final Fantasy IV's, VI's and VII's.





As Aerith stated, the development of the characters was well paced and they all have that "human" quality to them. Like him/her, I found them splitting up for the first 20 or so hours very realistic and for the best. As far as gameplay, don't let people say "all you have to do is press X to win" (auto battle). That's one of the dumbest things I think people point out in this game. You definately need to take manual control of your character for a lot of the fights if you want to get 5 stars. For instance: Can my Lightning make it in time when Snow hits the ground, to keep the Staggered enemy in the air with some Flamestrikes? Or, should I go for a quick Thunder and follow it up with some Aeros? People who rant about the game are those with the least amount of experience with the battle system. They probably just pressed X without giving it a second thought which is why they complain. Or they couldn't figure out why they weren't gettting a 5-Star rating when they were a full 45 seconds under the Target Time.


As for the story, it's pretty easy to follow through the game. Confusing with all the Cie words the first hour, but after that, you'll understand it for the most part. I can't think of any story/book/game where I wanted to completely understand everything at the very beginging. If I did, what was the point in playing/reading it? The Datalog is completely underrated by all the haters. It offers a lot of information on just about everything you experience in the game, and definately helps create your mental image of the world and it's story. I didn't read it until post game, which was fine as I understood the story perfectly. But, reading the Datalog gave me so much more, and made me feel even more connected with the story as it offered a little bit more depth to the game itself.


Anyways, that's my say in the game. I loved it, and still play it, as I'm not 100% done with it. Need to get Treasure Hunter and finish with Tier 3 weapons, then I'll be done.

Aerilina
14th Jun 2012, 07:46
I agree with you completely regarding how people say this game was lacking. If you take the time to read the datalog and to truly master the battle system, you can get more out of it. I think some people just picked up the controller and started to rush through it (me included on the first run). You almost have to play it multiple times to grasp the full story of what is going on;)

member_10829610
15th Jun 2012, 17:55
Overall, I liked XIII. At first, I thought the battle system was all too easy and even flawed, but came to like it later on.


The story was pretty good for the most part. I haven't beaten it yet because of technical difficulties, but I plan on getting it again & beating it.

ZackBalboa
17th Jun 2012, 19:25
I love that this game has attracted such attention while topics for IV and VI are practically dead. That's the sad reality of gaming now: people only care about the newest thing.

RoyalJam
18th Jun 2012, 14:48
This was and I hope the only FF I have ever been disgusted with. I liked or loved them all until this one. I can forgive the linearity of the game but the script was horrible and so was the pacing of the game due partly because of the editing since the lamebox couldn't handle the game. You should never have to read a novel in order to understand a game's plot and history. That said I loved the music and graphics. I'm indifferent to the battle system. I liked it here but don't want them to use it on another game. Even though I don't like it, I still play it from time to time because it can be fun.


The sequel I liked overall though so they did improve it.

member_10822883
19th Jun 2012, 15:44
I love that this game has attracted such attention while topics for IV and VI are practically dead. That's the sad reality of gaming now: people only care about the newest thing.






I'm playing through II, III, and VI right now. The reason topics for older games are dead is because they've been out for ages. They're also smaller games and there's less to discuss. I don't think it has that much to do with people only liking the newest thing.






You should never have to read a novel in order to understand a game's plot and history.






Of all the XIII criticisms I see, this I think is the most accurate and fair. It's true. You shouldn't have to read the Datalog in order to understand the plot. I still think the biggest headscratching moment in the game is near the beginning when they all have their Focus glimpse and exclaim "Ragnarok" as if the player is well aware of what that's supposed to signify in the game's world. It's poor storytelling to require or strongly suggest supplemental reading. I like the Datalog myself and really enjoy XIII, but I wouldn't ever suggest to Square to use that as a buffer again.

iambasho777
20th Jun 2012, 15:24
Square has been using that buffer in the KH series since KHI. The Ansem/Secret Ansem/Secret/Xehanort Reports are more important to the storyline that 3/4 of the cutscenes, and it works. It allows the information needed through cutscenes to be condensed and allows more cutscenes for comedic relief and allowing us to get to know what's going on with the characters. I would much rather prefer reading the Datalog and the KH Reports than to have to watch 50 extra cutscenes a game just to get across was is almost always only mildly important information.

member_10691345
22nd Jun 2012, 21:54
I liked the fact that you had a datalog to understand how the story goes/where to go next/fal'Cie mythos, but at the same time you SHOULD not have to read it for the current story. I'm the kind of person that will just spam 'auto battle', but I think some strategy is needed for the paradigm switches, so battle was okay. I LOVED the characters with the soul exeption of Fang. She just seems to cocky. Loved Lightning because she was badass. Loved Snow because he was really into everything. Liked Vanille because she was peppy, but annoying. Liked Sazh because he was funny. LOVED Hope because he was VERY emotional throughout the story and I can relate so much to him. Story was okay in the beginning, but by end I was dumbfounded. Linearity was a bit much for me because I wanted to zip through the story, and when I got to the Ark, I died a few too many times. I personally like this FF as opposed to others (FVIII and FFXII for me).

member_10770952
22nd Jun 2012, 22:03
I love that this game has attracted such attention while topics for IV and VI are practically dead. That's the sad reality of gaming now: people only care about the newest thing.





*nods* i know the feeling.

member_10073902
25th Jun 2012, 01:41
I've played, beaten and enjoyed every numbered Final Fantasy, save the MMOs, and XIII is my favorite by far. It does take way too long to ramp up, but I got hooked on the characters and their plight and couldn't put it down once the whole party came together. I know people don't like it (in part) for its linearity, but I think that made sense given the story they were trying to tell and I appreciate what they were trying to do. With the exception of Snow and the poorly fleshed out villains, I loved the cast and the battle system is one of my favorites in any JRPG. Also, the soundtrack is fantastic. It's probably blasphemous for me to say this, but I actually prefer Masashi Hamauzu to Nobuo Uematsu, and XIII's score is really top notch work.


It bums me out a bit that XIII gets so much hate but everyone's got their different tastes. I hope that maybe ten years from now the fan sentiment will have softened a bit, the way it has with VIII over time.






I would much rather prefer reading the Datalog and the KH Reports than to have to watch 50 extra cutscenes a game just to get across was is almost always only mildly important information.






I would agree with this wholeheartedly except that the KH Secret Reports are often a pain to collect and/or it's not obvious in an average playthrough that they exist or how to track them down. I think a lot of people end up missing out on the information that they convey as a result, which makes the series plot that much more inscrutable. :-/ I'm fine with things like the XIII datalog, where all of the info you need is unlocked naturally as you go along, and agree with the sentiment generally though. :-)

kimmstaa
25th Jun 2012, 20:53
When I first attempted to play this game as soon as it came out, I couldn't because my TV screen was too small and I couldn't make out any of the battle options on my screen. Of course, that wasn't really Square Enix's fault, but it was still frustrating I had spent 60 bucks and couldn't play.


Then, a year later I finally got another TV and started to play. The story was so overwhelmingly confusing I had to put it down and walk away.


Now, in the past month I got ahold of this game and started playing again. I'm so thankful I did. Of course I was confused once again, but after rereading the Datalog about a hundred times and finally realizing there were two different types of Fal'Cie, I really started to enjoy this game. I think the battle system is fantastic. I love all of the ways you can customize your battle team. I'm also really glad that the Crystarium is basically a more organized version of the Sphere Grid from FFX. The Sphere Grid was always so addicting for me and the Crystarium is no different. I like how there's a seperate one for each character. I also liked how CP is accumulated by everyone regardless if they were currently in your party or not.


The story (now that I understand it) is fantastic. The characters are all very unique and well developed. I still haven't beaten the game, so I'm really excited to see how it ends. I've already ordered the sequel. Can't wait!!

YukiTsubaki
26th Jun 2012, 21:59
Pre-ordered this one as I have with all of the FF games, MMO excepted, since FF IX. Marveled over the graphics of the game and enjoyed the lush soundtrack. Battle system? Took some getting used to, the same as all new FF titles. Shiva bike, Odin and all the others? Seriously badass! Loved them!





Deal breaker? Snow and Hope, who I wanted to completely throttle by the time I got to the midway point of the game.


Snow: I'm the Hero!


Um...no. Your future sister-in-law Light could whip your main character wannabe behind like a level 1 Flan. You did not deserve the Shiva Sisters! Seriously, when I first got this game, I really, really wanted to like Snow, I did. Sadly, this was not to be. I passed over his Play Arts Kai with no remorse whatsoever.


Hope wasn't so bad, just that I found him whiney. Even with big sis Lightning, it took him so long to get it together, although much like any other anime protagonist.


Sazh was the character I ended up liking the most: of them all he seemed the one with the least neurosis ad the most grounded.

Castiel
1st Jul 2012, 18:05
It's definitely a "Final Fantasy" title, it's just less "free-for-all" and more focused on the main storyline. I'm not gonna lie, the first nine chapters were a little boring (except for the chapter in Palumpolum, that was epic). For me, it's not truly enjoyable until the party is complete and you can freely change the line-up (after the first fight with Barthandelus). Once the Cocoon chapters are over and you end up on Pulse, it's much more freeing and enjoyable. I got lost in Pulse and I couldn't believe how huge it was and I loved it (almost as much as FFXII). Is it Final Fantasy? Absolutely. Does it follow the same formula of previous titles? Absolutely not. And that's a good thing. Oh, sure FFXIII is like shooting through a pipe with no control over where you&rsquo;re headed or how fast, but it's still an epic ride nonetheless.<o:p></o:p>

WorstBirthdayEver
13th Jul 2012, 17:06
For what it's worth, FF13 wound up being a decent game at best. Out of all the games I've played in the series (6, 7, 8, 9, and 10) I wouldn't put this game at the very top of my list as it would be at or near the bottom. The series has went from a have-it-all to an all-or-nothing setup which unfortunately revolves around what Square can do around the graphics. This has forever been Square's philosophy; get the most out of the hardware, which worked fine up to the PS2, but today's hardware cannot support Square's aim for making a game that is great in every aspect. The end result is exceptional graphics and much less content. One can only wonder what will become of future Square RPGs for future consoles if they continue their old ways. Will they wind up being labeled 20-hour "cinematic RPGs?" like Parasite Eve 1 for the next generation? (Not knocking on PE, that's one of my all-time favorites.)





On the other hand, there are things that are lacking which graphics would have little to no affect on the quality of certain parts of the game such as the voice acting, the weapon upgrade system, transportation, and aspects of the endgame. The crystarium system which requires a lot of micromangaging to get the most out of is something I'm partial to. Some time to develop the bad guy would've been nice for the quality of the story as it seems like the only character that had a sense of development was Hope. Though the sound direction overall is nice, I miss Uematsu. This game has very few memorable tracks whereas the rest just don't leave much of a good impression on me and I'm not convinced that the current composer has the finess and refinement of other composers who have done work with Square.





For me, the game's biggest strength was the visuals. As futuristic settings and themes seem ever-so-popular since 7 (or 8), 13's Cocoon and it's populace is interesting enough to make me wonder what the designers left out of the game that's within this world. Even more than the visuals was the battle system felt like a step forward with what I've experienced since 10 and seen from 10-2. The pace of battle is fast, and there is some trial and error involved with getting the most out of battles. Allowing characters to play various roles was a plus and some of the harder battles require certain roles to be used more efficiently than others. Other than it having a few issues (game over if main character dies, first paradigm shift makes everyone pose individually) it was fun finding various ways of defeating an enemy. Though the topic isn't 13-2, I must say the removal of Libra and the lack of a 3rd character slot was enough to prevent me from getting 13-2. Not to mention, the story... is just a simple mess. 13 however, was at least good enough to reinvigorate my interest in the series and RPGs in general. Right now, FF4 Complete and FF12 have my attention.





Overall: 7 out of 10.





If there will be a 13-3 and Square decides to take out the dumbness in 13-2's battle while retaining the proper improvements (switch lead if lead character dies in battle, no extended animation for initial paradigm shift though they could've kept the brief cinematic camera change from the first game - that was nice), then I might actually look forward to playing it.

member_10803211
21st Jul 2012, 23:32
Overall, I didn't care for it at all, and to be honest it has made me a little bit more wary of any future FF games. I've never felt like I should go rent a Final Fantasy game before i decide to buy it, but I'll probably do that in the future. (But on the same note, a lot of other games have made me feel the same way, so it isn't just FF).


This is just my opinion on the matter of course. But for me, I hated having to use the datalog to help clear things up (I saw that being talked about already). I realize other games have used the same overall idea, like in Kingdom Hearts, but at the same time I didn't -have- to read through the data if i didn't want to. There were many points through FF13 that I did. Secondly, I didn't care for many of the characters. Something about Snow drove me up a wall, Hope took too long to get his act together, and Vanille was just too over the top. Half the party I wanted to just kick to the curb but at times I was stuck with them.


The biggest killer for me though was it took too long to get going. I played for six hours over the first day and the maps just kept moving forward in a... line. I've become used to being able to roam at random for the most part, with a decent amount of hidden items and things to go find, and it just took too long to get to that part. Plus the amount of cutscenes just made it feel more sluggish. I felt too much like I was being forced foward when I rather have explored the areas a little bit more.


Also, and this is really just my own random feelings, but I hated the new summon system. They looked awesome, don't get me wrong, but something I've always loved is the FF games where you get to go hunt down your summons. And there were always so many of them to find, it made for a nice break from your main story quest.


I'm not really one of those who feels the game suffers just because it isn't FF7 or like any of the old games. I like to see forward progress but for me FF13 just missed the mark, and then when I heard how FF13-2 ends I've decided to be done with this set and wait for the next numbered FF to come out, lol.

YoshiKatYoko
22nd Jul 2012, 03:53
The only thing that I will complain about XIII is the summons's mechanics in battle. That's all.





I loved XIII, next is XII. Personally, before XIII got out, I loved XII. When XIII is released, I watched the walkthrough via YouTube. I got sick by the confusing storyline and linear areas.





Now, I bought a PS3 and the first game I bought is FFXIII. Now, I can see for myself IT'S THE BEST FF GAME ever made. Mechanics is what I'm aiming, this games have difficult mechanics like XII did. I loved the story goes well, each character changed as the game progress, I loved the story goes to Greek Mythology and challenging my understanding of the genre. The Paradigm System is completely the best mechanics I had seen. You have the opportunity to combine roles for a strategic match-up.


I loved farming, it can net you to explore deeply the whole Gran Pulse and not just in the Archylte itself. By farming you get to have strategies for Tortoises since they drop the most valuable items.






shigeru_mid
23rd Jul 2012, 00:08
I got it just recently. It's very good. Graphics are brilliant. I find myself staring at the character models and the environments a lot. As for the gameplay, I'm still experimenting on my Paradigms, but it's pretty much good. I'm not really picky with my games. If I like something (and I like the FF series a lot), even though it's negatively recieved, I play through it and enjoy it. The only thing I don't like is Hope.

LennethLionK3
23rd Jul 2012, 05:55
I've played and beaten most of the FF series, and for the longest time I havent understood the negativity fans display with FFXIII and FFXIII-2.


I'm starting to think that maybe everyone who played all the earlier games in the series can relate to those games better because you can see the charcters thru your own eyes. I mean it seems like the earlier games characters and stories can be more open to interpretation than the newer games. Maybe I'm wrong tho.


I love all the older games, but honestly, they could hardly spell, or even translate the dialog correctly back then. Plus, SE is always pushing the limit when it comes to great graphics, no matter what era, so there arent any problems there, right?


As far as story goes, in the FFXIII series, you Have To Submit to the game and how it operates to be able to enjoy it. That means learning the terminology and following the story, using your brain. I've read too many times how ppl didnt like FFXIII because "it was too hard to follow" or it was "to linear". How about fully emersing yourself into what is presented all the way thru, and then judging the game. There is ALOT of exploration and hunting to be done once you get to Pulse, if your heart desires.


Do I think Snow is corny? Yes. Does Hope cry alot? Yeah. But try looking at all of the characters from there own point of view, there personalities reflect there positions pretty well, for every character.


If your someone who understood the whole game without much trouble and still didnt like it, then thats great, not everyone will. But if you didnt give it a fair chance, or couldnt wrap your head around it, please stop flamming the FFXIII series.


Overall opinion, Excellent game, if I were to change anything, it would prolly be the map layout/functions. FFXIII-2 has improved on this tho. Maybe the number of components are excessive as well, but neither of these things are a big deal.


Lets all start to appreciate these works of art for what they are, and not hate them for what they dont do for you personally. Noone has ever tailor made a game for anyone at any point, so why is it always expected of SE and Final Fantasy?

ZackBalboa
2nd Sep 2012, 23:47
I decided to make a little movie describing my feelings about FFXIII in celebration of the series' 25th anniversary.

blip.tv/the-zack-balboa-experience/ffxii... (http://blip.tv/the-zack-balboa-experience/ffxiii-review-part-1-6333293)
blip.tv/the-zack-balboa-experience/ffxii... (http://blip.tv/the-zack-balboa-experience/ffxiii-review-part-2-electric-boogaloo-6333400)
blip.tv/the-zack-balboa-experience/ffxii... (http://blip.tv/the-zack-balboa-experience/ffxiii-review-part-3-review-harder-6333458)
blip.tv/the-zack-balboa-experience/ffxii... (http://blip.tv/the-zack-balboa-experience/ffxiii-review-part-4-his-name-is-douche-6333511)
blip.tv/the-zack-balboa-experience/ffxii... (http://blip.tv/the-zack-balboa-experience/ffxiii-review-part-5-big-finish-6333563)

alanman178
22nd Sep 2012, 12:34
There have always been differences of opinion with these games. I've been there since the beginning of the US releases. I've heard and read so many likes and dislikes over the last 22 years. Of all the original single-player US releases(FF1, 4, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 12, 13, and 13-2), I've never seen the fans as divided as they are now with the FF13s. While all ff games have their linear moments, FF13 really was the most compact of the series. There were a lot of things that people were looking forward to that were not included in the game. A lot of fans have loved the series for more than just the story. They enjoyed being able to take a break from the story for a little bit to earn some items through side-questing or mini-games. I am one of those people. While I may criticize the game, I'll never criticize the people who enjoy them. I've had so many people attack me with all sorts of unnecessary or adolescent comments. I gave FF13 a 7.5 out of 10. It wasn't a horrible game overall. It just didn't feel like a complete FF game to me. I didn't score the game lower because, I thought the game did alright with what was there. I think Square-Enix is getting a little closer to the perfect battle system for the series. With a little more work, I wouldn't be surprised if most of the fans end up enjoying it.


My favorite ff game is 7, followed by 6. That doesn't mean the rest of them suck. I guess this is where I wait for someone to reply with something like, "You're a Doo-Doo Head", or something of that nature. lol

member_10723676
22nd Sep 2012, 16:36
I think FFXIII is just as much a Final Fantasy as any other in the series. And one major reason I think the fans are so divided when it comes to this game is because of time. The game only came out three years ago. And from my experience, FF games are judged alot better after initial reception. I sound like a broken record but when 9 came out, there were people who deemed it childish. When 10 came out, it was too linear, had a "whiny" main character, the story "wasn't good". When XII came out, it was deemed an "offline-mmo", the main character was bad, and the story was "all over the place". There is still a little hate towards this game today, but nowhere near as much initially, even though it is one of the msot critically acclaimed FF's.


First it was "1-9 were the best, and it went down hill from there, to "1-10 were the best, and...." See where I'm going with this? The numbered FF's are gems, but each time a numbered FF comes out, the fans set their expectations higher and higher. And technology has advanced since then, "fans" are alot more verbal with their opinions on the internet, some of them love to spam that hate, and be heard.





TL:DR FFXIII is an amazing game, and an amazing Final Fantasy. The story was a little convoluted and the character development was 'meh", but the game nonetheless, was still great. The reviews by critcs weren't excellent, but still great. Fans compared XIII to previous FF's and set their expectations too high, longing to recapture that magic they had when they experienced the Final Fantasy's when they were growing up, IMO.





And just because my username is Judge Balthier, it doesn't mean my first FF was XII. My first FF technically was VII, I grew up with 3, 4, 8, 10 and 12.

alanman178
22nd Sep 2012, 20:41
Any time a game is released as a continuation of a series, it is expected that they retain some of those traditionally loved key elements(as is, or with enhancements) of the previous titles all while implementing new ideas into the system. People tend to get attached to some of those ideas as they're added and/or enhanced in each game made. Especially in a series over 20-yrs-old. Lots of things have been done in that period of time. So when those things are reduced or removed, here come the rants. lol


The new game will always be compared to the previous titles because, it has been given the name and next number in the series. If it ends up being too different, once again, here come the rants. One of the things I agree with FF13 fans about is, the people criticizing the game when they haven't played all of the way through it, shouldn't rate it. You can hate it. Just don't rate it. I made sure to do as much as I could before rating it myself. After I finished the story, I maxed out the characters so I could handle those giant Tortoises. I remember killing one of those nasty ones. I did those Hunts. I went through Titan's trials. I don't think I ever did get a Trapezohedron.


Anyway, that's about all I have for now. I'm still looking forward to "Lightning Returns". It'll be interesting to see how that game plays out.

member_10194366
24th Oct 2012, 20:49
FFXIII ruined the FF series for me. Everything about it was terrible.


I really wish Square Enix would stop sending me emails as I have not opted in for any emails.

marceloiwai
6th Nov 2012, 15:57
I Just got the game. Hope I like it.

danielgmz
24th Nov 2012, 20:49
I just bought the game and it looks great on a large full hd tv


however I miss the freedom and control other FF's give to the player


and I don like having to change professions (since FFX-2)


party characters fighting automatically is another bad idea to me :(


also I miss some more consistant level up and equipment upgrade


but it's not that bad, instead we get badass enemies, great characters,


fast paced action, plenty of cinematics and cutting edge graphics for less than $30


it's totally worth buying!!!!

member_10687105
25th Nov 2012, 13:12
however I miss the freedom and control other FF's give to the player


and I don like having to change professions (since FFX-2)


party characters fighting automatically is another bad idea to me :(



It may help to realize that "changing professions" is the control mechanism you have over the non-leader characters. It's control on a strategic level, instead of the full tactical control you have over all characters in previous titles, but it's still a good amount of control. You also have full tactical control over the party leader if you use manual command entry over Auto-battle.


I have to say, I like the level up system used. I like having full control over whether or not to power up, and what abilities or stats to prioritize when I do level. I think the Sphere Grid from FFX is my favorite implementation of a system like this, but I definitely prefer the systems used in X, XII, and XIII over the experience-->level systems seen in previous titles.


Anyway, glad to hear you're enjoying the game!


t~

WynterHewett
26th Nov 2012, 20:52
I liked Final Fantasy XIII a lot. I loved how they showed Lightning and how she began to be nicer to the others through out the game. All of the characters were great. I love the music too http://na.square-enix.com/tools/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/img/smiley-laughing.gif

billmaster17
29th Nov 2012, 20:37
I thought this was the best game ever made http://na.square-enix.com/tools/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/img/smiley-smile.gif


and the international trailer is the best game trailer ive ever seen

catoplebas
11th Jan 2013, 13:21
I dont like FF13 in the gameplay system because hate the RPG in witch one i dont control all the caracters i a battle, i love the way of battle of FF10, thats the mark that make a FF a good game. The battle system of FF 13 its like if i was playing a god of war, heres is no strategy at all, to lay a FF i tha way i prefer to lay castlevania or ubcharted because i the end is the same way. Tis is the reason that F series are not popular like in the psx or ps2

moooka
11th Jan 2013, 21:43
I liked the game but it's not my fav FF, not even close. I think the game should have had more open areas and some backtracking and towns. There was very little exploration in the game, mainly on Gran Pulse. I wish XV has a bigger world.

Timmei
13th Jan 2013, 18:42
I finally got around to playing Final Fantasy XIII after almost three years of waiting, because I never had enough money to afford a system to play it on. Well after buying a PS3, I have FINALLY been able to play this game!


I came into playing FF XIII with very guarded feelings, knowing that many people had said horrible things about it, though I had also heard some praise for it as well. I really expected to hate it...


But, in all honesty, I really like XIII. I can understand the reason that many fans don't like, with the linearity of the game and the completely different battle system than any other in the series, but I liked it for what it was! No, it is not my favorite game in the series at all, but I felt the game was done well enough to give it props for all the hard work that went into it! (Plus, I absolutely LOVE Vanillle, especially after being privy to a phone conversation with her voice actor and Fang's voice actor! :D ) I feel that the game has a quite a bit of charm, with the wonderful graphics, and yes, the new battle system. I think it fits the feel of the game very well. And, honestly, I didn't mind the linearity either. It felt so awkward once I got to Gran Pulse and I got to do what I wanted.


Overall, FF XIII is not my favorite in the series, but I did like it enough to go through the whole game, and enjoyed it while I did! I will try to remember not to listen to others opinions before I jump into another video game from now on, considering peoples opinions will always differ!

FantasyFinale12
15th Jan 2013, 22:03
I'm really enjoying this game as well. I'm fairly new to Final Fantasy still, but have been captivated by it since first playing Crisis Core on a friend's PSP (Sadly could not finish it). FF XIII is a really good game with lots of story to it, and that's not all. It has interesting, bold, unique characters and settings that capture the player's attention.

kmj856
21st Feb 2013, 22:39
I finally played all the way through FF 13, and I have to say that it was a truly terrible game. This is a real shame because I really loved the Final Fantasy series, FF7 still rates as my favorite game ever. Clearly this was an attempt to recapture the magic of FF7, it even starts off the same way: Main protagonist on train, ex soldier, black sidekick who uses guns. Then you spend the next 40 hours running in a straight line through a hallway. The real sad part was it was clear that the game could have even been great, the story, while overly long and complicated to the point that you had to inclue hundreds of pages of reading just to clear up what the bloody hell everything was and what they were supposed to be doing, was compelling enough to keep my interest, and I loved the redesigned combat system, it was challenging enough to be interesting, and completely new. The best part of FF7 was getting to see the world though, which happens right out of Midgar. Here you run in a straight line right up to the end of the game with no side quests or exploring at all until the last area. I will not be purchasing any spin-offs of this series, not matter what reviews or news that is released about it. Truly, truly awful.

marcelomaia
22nd Feb 2013, 06:57
I finally played all the way through FF 13, and I have to say that it was a truly terrible game. This is a real shame because I really loved the Final Fantasy series, FF7 still rates as my favorite game ever. Clearly this was an attempt to recapture the magic of FF7, it even starts off the same way: Main protagonist on train, ex soldier, black sidekick who uses guns. Then you spend the next 40 hours running in a straight line through a hallway. The real sad part was it was clear that the game could have even been great, the story, while overly long and complicated to the point that you had to inclue hundreds of pages of reading just to clear up what the bloody hell everything was and what they were supposed to be doing, was compelling enough to keep my interest, and I loved the redesigned combat system, it was challenging enough to be interesting, and completely new. The best part of FF7 was getting to see the world though, which happens right out of Midgar. Here you run in a straight line right up to the end of the game with no side quests or exploring at all until the last area. I will not be purchasing any spin-offs of this series, not matter what reviews or news that is released about it. Truly, truly awful.

Yep feel the same, too. I love the FFVII game style and the others history before that, like FFI - FFVI. And i'm still waiting a game that we can play in scene that we can walktrough all the maps and fight the find encounter randomly..

moooka
22nd Feb 2013, 07:58
They made one, it's called Final Fantasy Dimensions.

member_10211040
22nd Feb 2013, 08:27
lol everyone crys about FFXIII, it's not a bad game, and yes it's linear but it's done this way to encourage non jrpg fans to play the game. If you want to go exploring just beat the game, and then grand pulse opens up and you can explore it's open beauty. Theres way more playtime in the after main game side quests than there is during the actual story. And yes everyone still yearns for FFVII remake, but I remember doing all those little side quests and by the time I got to the end I pretty much one shotted sephrioth and that gave me a huge feeling of lack of accomplishment, until in FFXIII where you're capped in your skills so the final boss is actually a challenge, even if he's not the hardest mob in the game.

kmj856
22nd Feb 2013, 10:29
Why would you make a JRPG for non JRPG fans? All that does is annoy your main fan base. The reason people play FF is because they like JRPGs, so why make something unrecognizable? It makes no sense. If you would just call it something else and make a proper FF game then odds are the fans wouldn't have been as pissed about it.

akjhu_
25th Feb 2013, 11:27
Oh come on, play 13-2. The gameplay is a little different, and if you liked the battles you should enjoy 13-2 because the battles in 13-2 are like 13 on 'roids. The story doesn't get any less convoluted, and unfortunately to get the whole storyline you have to buy DLC. I like characters, and there isn't much new worth mentioning. Crap, on second thought, if the first one turned you off, might as well stay away now.

Schala
7th Mar 2013, 13:01
Why would you make a JRPG for non JRPG fans? All that does is annoy your main fan base. The reason people play FF is because they like JRPGs, so why make something unrecognizable? It makes no sense. If you would just call it something else and make a proper FF game then odds are the fans wouldn't have been as pissed about it.






It was made with most gamers in mind, but the ones who complained were the American players, not all of them mind you (I'm a NA player, and found it ok).





In FF7, as much as you say you had "lots of freedom", you didn't. Get out of Midgar, then go to Kalm, then chocobo farm, then the cave, then Junon, and so on. You had the RTS-like Fort Condor and Gold Saucer on the way, but until you get the Highwind, you're stuck following a pre-planned path. Consider the Highwind like reaching Pulse in FF13. In FF8, you started having some freedom in Fisherman's Horizon, and more in Esthar. In FF9, once you get the first airship, then the one not needing Mist. In FF10, once you reach Zanarkand. They all have some linearity.

Grimoire
14th Mar 2013, 12:17
FINAL FANTASY XIII is, in my opinion, a fantastic game (only second to FINAL FANTASY VII in my personal ranking of main FINAL FANTASY titles). It perfectly suits my taste.


However, anyone is free to think what they want. To each their own. If they like it, then they do. If they don't, then that's it. It's just a game anyway.



Grimoire
14th Mar 2013, 13:01
In my (and Square Enix&rsquo;s) opinion: it had. Of course there are fans who disagree. But I for one, who don't have much time to spend on playing games, found it much more enjoyable this way. As I said, I am personally glad that they managed to create a game as amazing as FFXIII. (Besides, it sold pretty well, I must say.)

ryan.spaeleay
29th Mar 2013, 19:32
I'm going to start by saying, final fantasy 13 -2 is the one that started my love for the final fantasy franchise! With that being said, along with ff 13's being my favorite of the ff games to date, this may be a little abyss. I'll do my best though.
First ff 13. Love the story line! It starts out confusing but the beginning is one of my favorite parts since its bringing in most of the character conflict and goals. The game contains a few to many cinematics, to many for some people to bare. But I rather enjoy them. They continue to get more interesting as the game moves on. As you move along after the first 2 chapters, you quickly realize that the game gets very linear and straight forward by the end of chapter 3 and 4, and my advice is, you gone this far don't give up, cause it gets out of the gutter real soon. In about the middle of the game, a lot of story line conflicts are dealt with which is good, otherwise I would have been to bored to continue. And after that point, the game will stay permanently better throughout the rest of the story. So overall, the story itself, I give a high 8, or a 9. And as for character development, 7 or 8 on some characters, and a 9 on others.
BATTLE MODE: I for one, really enjoy all the abillities available to use in battle. Had it just been a few moves for each role, for each character. yuck. But in this game techniques, items (never used these much) and other battle options are available. However, for some reason, after awhile, I have a hard time getting to attached to the battle system (after the extensive 131 hours I've played this game) for several reasons. 1. It always needs the opening view before a battle, which consumes a lot of total accumulated time. 2. Healing (though extremely useful) defeats the purpose of items and also, in a sense makes the game way to much easier. I mean all you do is send out a medic and you're covered for the most part. 3. With auto-battle, all you're really doing is pushing x over and over, with an occasional R1 and L1. There are a few positives I would like to mention. The paradigm system, puts a lot of strategy to use. Over the span of time I've played ff 13, I decided to play ff 13 with out ever using crystarium, I did useweapon upgrades, yes), and after having to actually spend a lot of time planning paradigms, I grew to really enjoy the concept. Another thing was all the abillities significant to each individuals roles. Which brings me to staggering, which I like cuase it gives an aim to a battle, to improve defeating opponents.
Developing- enhancing characters: Rather difficult as far as crystarium goes. You sit there and attend ever battle that is available (until you get far enough into the game) so you can fill out all the crystals available for you in your current crystarim stage. But they do add a lot of abillities to make each role signifcantly useful in different situations. But boy oh boy. Gil... There could have been changes. It's just so time consuming to get a lot of it. All the best ways of farming just kill time. I think it would have been so much better if gil could also be obtained from defeating opponents.
...continued....

ryan.spaeleay
30th Mar 2013, 15:27
So maybe obtaining gil isn't the greatest, but it's still really nice that there are so many different shops to put the money to use.
The merchandise in the game is actually rather nice opposed to the whole gil fiasco. Its good that this game involves upgrading weapons, along with use of sol's as well. Weapon abilities and combination for added effects brings a whole different planning/strategy in play to this game!
Missions in this game were kind of a bummer. They're only like mini boss battles, period. I think there could have been challenges outside of just battling...
Everything leading up to the end of the game was great, including cinematics, the ending itself, and the battles. But once i beat it, i found nothing to do make a goal to max out all my characters crystarium and weapons. (haven't done either yet) but truly, once i beat the game, i had pretty much nothing to do... Which is a a disappointment. I think there could have been things added once you complete the game, but no, only a few more missions are available.
If there was ever a remake (which there probably won't be, just saying...) the improvements i'd suggest are: Put puzzles that aren't straight forward, Instead of making areas so lengthy and pretty much all battles and walking, make them hard to complete shorter areas instead and include things you need to complete to move forward and such, Create an ATB design like is going to be in lightning returns, Make missions that don't all involve battling, And put in live cinematics, like in ff 13-2

bigtakilla
10th Apr 2013, 18:57
There is nothing "friendly tip"ish about this topic. All you've done is make an a** out of yourself by pointlessly flaming the best selling FF game yet. Yes, it is a Final Fantasy game. Saying it isn't is either displaying narrow-minded elitism or illiteracy. No, it is not the best game of the series. We all know that. It is strictly linear for 90% of the game, but that makes it so much more enjoyable when you finally reach CH11. It does a lot better job at invoking emotion that the majority of the other FFs and makes you empathize with the characters, which is the POINT of a RPG.If you're saying this "isn't a Final Fantasy game" because of the linearity and new gameplay aspects, they you should also be saying 3 (added the ability to change jobs), 7 (added 3D graphics), 8 (enemies leveled up with you), 10 (added voice acting), 11 (MMO), and 12 (took out the battle screen) "aren't Final Fantasies" because they innovated the technology and gameplay aspects of the game. Every series evolves, if we still got the turn-based system or 2D graphics of the games of old the FF series would flop because those games don't sell well anymore.Also, please work on your English and proofread your posts here. It took me five or six reads of that to understand what you were attempting to say.


You should probably check your facts. XIII is not the best selling FF, VII is and probably always will be. Saying that was either the result of XIII fanboy white knighting, or just plain ignorance. I'll let the readers decide.

Leaferian-379423
10th Apr 2013, 20:05
I don't know why you felt the need to reply to a topic almost a year old, but yes Final Fantasy VII is the top selling Final Fantasy. The game is over 15 years old, and the sales numbers released to the public don't even include digital downloads for the PC or PS3/PSP. The game was wildly popular. As of this year, Final Fantasy XIII is the 4th top selling (After VII, X, and VIII in that order) globally with 6.89 million copies, and the 3rd top selling in North America (after VII and X in that order). I'll include the full numbers in a spoiler below.





What this person probably got confused with best-selling is fastest-selling. Final Fantasy XIII sold over a million copies in the space of a few weeks, making it the fastest-selling release in the franchise to date.





I have bolded the Top 5 globally, and italicized the Top 5 in North America. These numbers will eventually be edited to include all offline Final Fantasies as well. I sorted through the Final Fantasies that had been released under incorrect numbers, on multiple platforms in different iterations, and included all expansions for FF11 on PS2 and 360.





Please bear in mind these figures do NOT take digital sales into account, as Apple, Sony, and Microsoft are unwilling to let these numbers be publicized. This means most of the PC downloadable-expansions of FFXI, FFV iOS, and all PSN sales of I-IX+Tactics are not included .

<ul>
Final Fantasy I ~ 3.08mil Global, 1.33mil US
Final Fantasy II ~ 2.65mil Global, 0.97mil US
Final Fantasy III ~ 3.53mil Global, 0.85mil US
Final Fantasy IV ~ 2.77mil Global, 1.35mil US
Final Fantasy V ~ 3.68mil Global, 0.46mil US
Final Fantasy VI ~ 4.58mil Global, 1.32mil US
Final Fantasy VII ~ 10.35mil Global, 3.01mil US (#1 Global/#1 North America)

Final Fantasy VIII ~ 7.86mil Global, 2.28mil US (#3 Global/#4 North America)

Final Fantasy IX ~ 5.30mil Global, 1.62mil US
Final Fantasy X ~ 8.32mil Global, 2.91mil US (#2 Global/#2 North America)

Final Fantasy XI ~ 2.61mil Global, 1.32mil US
Final Fantasy XII ~ 6.06mil Global, 1.88mil US (#5 Global)

Final Fantasy XIII ~ 6.89mil Global, 2.7mil US (#4 Global/#3 North America)

Final Fantasy XIV ~ 0.66mil Global, 0.35mil US
[/list]

Stuff I&rsquo;m listing separately (for flow reasons) but are still mainline games (sequels or prequels to the above games) are as follows.



<ul>
Final Fantasy VII Crisis Core ~ 3.07mil, 1.30mil US
Final Fantasy VII Dirge of Cerberus ~ 1.48mil, 0.47mil US
Final Fantasy X-2 ~ 5.58mil Global, 1.92mil US (#5 North America)

Final Fantasy XII Revenant Wings ~ 1.34mil Global, 0.31mil US
Final Fantasy XIII-2 ~ 2.95mil Global, 1.05mil US
[/list]

Next are unnumbered/sideline Final Fantasy game sales. As with the games above, digital sales are not included. There are likely more games than what I list here, and over time I will be adding more to the list. I will not be including the Final Fantasy Legend titles, as they are actually SaGa games, or the Street Fighter crossover/cameos.



<ul>
Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles ~ 1.49mil Global, 0.72mil US
Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles: Ring of Fates ~ 0.65mil Global, 0.21mil US
Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles: Echoes of Time ~ 0.68mil Global, 0.32mil US
Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles: The Crystal Bearers ~ 0.36mil Global, 0.19mil US
Final Fantasy Tactics ~ 3.55mil Global, 1.35mil US
Final Fantasy Tactics Advance ~ 2.13mil Global, 0.82mil US
Final Fantasy Tactics A2: Grimoire of the Rift ~ 0.69mil Global, 0.35mil US
Dissidia Final Fantasy ~ 2.22mil Global, 0.48mil US
Dissidia 012 Duodecim Final Fantasy ~ 0.78mil Global, 0.16mil US
Theatrhythm Final Fantasy ~ 0.39mil Global, 0.16mil US
Final Fantasy Type-0 ~ 0.81mil Japan-only
Final Fantasy Fables: Chocobo's Dungeon ~ 0.20mil Global, 0.08mil US
Final Fantasy Fables: Chocobo Tales ~ 0.23mil Global, 0.10mil US
[/list]

alanman178
11th Apr 2013, 11:05
I wonder if they set a 'pre-order' record because, I think I had it pre-ordered for about 2 years. lol

SoulEaterQUEEN
11th Apr 2013, 18:13
So I finally beat this game a few days ago after I purchased it since it's release here. I have to say I have rather mixed feelings about it; to be honest, I was a bit confused by the whole story of the game. I felt it wasn't that strong, you get branded by the Fal Cie, and then you become a L'Cie, the most hated enemy of Cocoon, therefore are fugitives. However what I didn't quite understand what was the deal with the Fal Cie, I don't understand why they wanted to wage war against each other, and why they wanted destruction so badly? I just felt slightly ripped off for understanding the reasons behind the Fal Cie's motives for destruction - almost like there wasn't any explainable cause, but the fact that it was in their Godly genetics to act out this way. The whole concept, "I'm sick of humans, they are imperfect, it would be entertaining to watch them suffer" is a bit cliche in my opinion.


The game itself, I found it to be not that bad. I enjoyed it more than Final Fantasy XII, but then again the whole political aspect didn't envoke my interests. The gameplay was a bit boring, and way too linear. Final Fantasy X was linear, but I still had some room to work with (doing a few side things, such as exploration of the city, playing mini games - blitzball for a break to relax, etc.) but I literally felt so exhausted in XIII that I felt like it was way too long to sit. I wish it wouldn't have taken me about close to 2 hours to get through one chapter segment, because honestly I felt like I was going through random places. I guess if they introduced some towns to take a break at, it would have been okay, instead of constantly fighting monsters.


The battle system, wasn't *that* bad. The auto-system has to go though -- it makes battles really thoughtless and more reliable on your reaction time to do paradigm shifts. I didn't find the actual paradigm shifts to be too bad though - I liked how each character had their own unique combinations of paradigm, and there was some flexibility involved. However, I wish there was more detail to some of the classes; instead of having one large path for the class, I would have had multiple pathways, where maybe for Ravager, I could have had a focus on pure magic, and the other pathway was more Magic-melee style with some strength bonuses involved. I just felt the Crystallurium system was a bit too linear for my tastes, and could have used a bit of tweaking.


As for the characters themselves, the cast was decent. I still don't buy the whole "Wow, fate all brought us together", I wish there was more time to recruit characters rather than bring 80 % of the cast together at once. Also, maybe we could have had some guest characters or extra characters so the game would feel a bit less linear. I did like the characters though, Lightning is a pretty strong protagonist, and is likeable, but honestly after completing the game, the character who got most of my respect would have to be Vanille. She is a bit silly to begin with, but she really matured by the end of the game, and had a lot of courage to confront her fears, which really made me feel sad that she there at the end (due to an unmentionable circumstance) with the rest of the cast.


If I were to rate this game myself, I would give it a final rating of being 7/10. It wasn't a bad Final Fantasy game, and I don't regret the entry in this series, but there were still some flaws that lessened the enjoyment value overall.

member_10687105
12th Apr 2013, 02:55
So I finally beat this game a few days ago after I purchased it since it's release here. I have to say I have rather mixed feelings about it; to be honest, I was a bit confused by the whole story of the game.



That's not too surprising. I rather enjoy the story, now that I understand it, but the presentation of the story leaves a lot to be desired. To pull it all together, you must scour the datalog, which includes unlocking all of the Analects by completing optional missions. It is also quite helpful to know about the overaching "Fabula Nova Crystalis" mythos that informs FFXIII and its sequels along with FF Type-0 and the (theoretical) FFvs.XIII.


Fal'Cie are the creations of the divine being Bhunivelze (the Maker). Bhunivelze took full control of the mortal world by killing his mother Mwynn, who passed to the unseen world. Seeking to enter the unseen world without dying, Bhunivelze created the fal'Cie Pulse, Etro, and Lindzei. Pulse was charged with finding the door to the unseen world. Etro's unintentional resemblence to Mwynn disturbed Bhunivelze, and he granted her no power at all. Lindzei was charged with the protection of the world and Bhunivelze. Bhunivelze then entered a deep sleep, waiting until the entrance to the unseen was found.


Pulse and Lindzei each created numerous lesser fal'Cie to assist them in their tasks. Etro, despairing because she had no purpose, killed herself, and her blood gave birth to humanity. Etro passed to the unseen world, where she found Mwynn being consumed by chaos. Etro charged by Mwynn to preserve the balance between the worlds. She did this by placing a bit of chaos within each human (granting them their "hearts").


Fal'Cie by their nature are limited in scope and in power. They can only act in accordance with their purpose, or to defend themselves, and they only have as much power as was granted to them at creation. They are even more restricted than l'Cie are; a l'Cie still has a choice about whether or not to pursue their focus, even if the potential consequences are unpleasant. Fal'Cie are denied even that level of free will. They can't even commit suicide by inaction; if challenged, they must defend themselves.


It is primarily the limitation on power that causes fal'Cie to use l'Cie as tools. Because of the chaos they harbor, humans are potentially unlimited in power; by turning humans into l'Cie, the fal'Cie can access potentially unlimited power.


With that in mind, let's take a closer look at Barthandelus. Barthandelus is created by Lindzei to construct and maintain Cocoon. That is Barthandelus's purpose (one that he cannot directly act against), but it is not his primary motivation. His motivation--one possibly shared by most or all fal'Cie--is to bring back Bhunivelze, which can only happen if a door to the unseen world is found. It is unclear whether this motivation is inspired by Lindzei.


Thus we come to the plot of the game: a convoluted, centuries-old plan conceived and orchestrated by Barthandelus, with the ultimate goal of opening a gate to the unseen world. Instead of searching for a physical door, as Pulse and his creations are doing (Atomos searches the earth, Dahaka searches the sky), Barthandelus saw that the death of a human opens a small and fleeting gate to the unseen world. He postulated that a sufficient quantity of simultaneous human death would force that gate wide open. An obvious way to arrange for that level of death is the destruction of Cocoon. However, he is bound by his purpose and unable to take any direct action that works against the preservation of Cocoon. This limitation extends to any l'Cie that he personally creates: he cannot grant a focus opposed to his purpose.


Consequently, he fosters animosity among other fal'Cie upon the world of Pulse, in particular Anima, by abrogating the realms of those fal'Cie while creating Cocoon. These fal'Cie, unconnected to Cocoon, are able to create l'Cie who have the focus of destroying Cocoon. Over the centuries, he manipulates the lives of each l'Cie who is granted such a focus, trying to build up their power to the point where they are actually capable of fulfilling the focus. He eventually succeeds in this with the events in the game, but is thwarted in his ultimate goal by Fang and Vanille's unconventional use of Ragnarok.


Does that help to make more sense of things?

SoulEaterQUEEN
12th Apr 2013, 11:01
So I finally beat this game a few days ago after I purchased it since it's release here. I have to say I have rather mixed feelings about it; to be honest, I was a bit confused by the whole story of the game.



That's not too surprising. I rather enjoy the story, now that I understand it, but the presentation of the story leaves a lot to be desired. To pull it all together, you must scour the datalog, which includes unlocking all of the Analects by completing optional missions. It is also quite helpful to know about the overaching "Fabula Nova Crystalis" mythos that informs FFXIII and its sequels along with FF Type-0 and the (theoretical) FFvs.XIII.


Fal'Cie are the creations of the divine being Bhunivelze (the Maker). Bhunivelze took full control of the mortal world by killing his mother Mwynn, who passed to the unseen world. Seeking to enter the unseen world without dying, Bhunivelze created the fal'Cie Pulse, Etro, and Lindzei. Pulse was charged with finding the door to the unseen world. Etro's unintentional resemblence to Mwynn disturbed Bhunivelze, and he granted her no power at all. Lindzei was charged with the protection of the world and Bhunivelze. Bhunivelze then entered a deep sleep, waiting until the entrance to the unseen was found.


Pulse and Lindzei each created numerous lesser fal'Cie to assist them in their tasks. Etro, despairing because she had no purpose, killed herself, and her blood gave birth to humanity. Etro passed to the unseen world, where she found Mwynn being consumed by chaos. Etro charged by Mwynn to preserve the balance between the worlds. She did this by placing a bit of chaos within each human (granting them their "hearts").


Fal'Cie by their nature are limited in scope and in power. They can only act in accordance with their purpose, or to defend themselves, and they only have as much power as was granted to them at creation. They are even more restricted than l'Cie are; a l'Cie still has a choice about whether or not to pursue their focus, even if the potential consequences are unpleasant. Fal'Cie are denied even that level of free will. They can't even commit suicide by inaction; if challenged, they must defend themselves.


It is primarily the limitation on power that causes fal'Cie to use l'Cie as tools. Because of the chaos they harbor, humans are potentially unlimited in power; by turning humans into l'Cie, the fal'Cie can access potentially unlimited power.


With that in mind, let's take a closer look at Barthandelus. Barthandelus is created by Lindzei to construct and maintain Cocoon. That is Barthandelus's purpose (one that he cannot directly act against), but it is not his primary motivation. His motivation--one possibly shared by most or all fal'Cie--is to bring back Bhunivelze, which can only happen if a door to the unseen world is found. It is unclear whether this motivation is inspired by Lindzei.


Thus we come to the plot of the game: a convoluted, centuries-old plan conceived and orchestrated by Barthandelus, with the ultimate goal of opening a gate to the unseen world. Instead of searching for a physical door, as Pulse and his creations are doing (Atomos searches the earth, Dahaka searches the sky), Barthandelus saw that the death of a human opens a small and fleeting gate to the unseen world. He postulated that a sufficient quantity of simultaneous human death would force that gate wide open. An obvious way to arrange for that level of death is the destruction of Cocoon. However, he is bound by his purpose and unable to take any direct action that works against the preservation of Cocoon. This limitation extends to any l'Cie that he personally creates: he cannot grant a focus opposed to his purpose.


Consequently, he fosters animosity among other fal'Cie upon the world of Pulse, in particular Anima, by abrogating the realms of those fal'Cie while creating Cocoon. These fal'Cie, unconnected to Cocoon, are able to create l'Cie who have the focus of destroying Cocoon. Over the centuries, he manipulates the lives of each l'Cie who is granted such a focus, trying to build up their power to the point where they are actually capable of fulfilling the focus. He eventually succeeds in this with the events in the game, but is thwarted in his ultimate goal by Fang and Vanille's unconventional use of Ragnarok.


Does that help to make more sense of things?






Wow, this is pretty amazing. I wish I had known about this and looked at the story further.


However I still have a few unanswered questions:


Who is Orphan or what is Orphan in all of this?


What exactly is Ragnarok?


The unseen world = Valhalla, correct? How did Lightning enter this place? (be aware that I haven't finished XIII-2 but I think I heard she is the reincarnation of the Goddess Etro, but I wouldn't imagine that Lightning decides to commit suicide)


If Rosch knew the truth about the Fal Cie, and the L'Cie, why did he keep turning against the party until the very end?





Thanks so much for your input, it really helps a lot!

member_10687105
13th Apr 2013, 02:38
Wow, this is pretty amazing. I wish I had known about this and looked at the story further.


However I still have a few unanswered questions:


Who is Orphan or what is Orphan in all of this?



Orphan is the fal'Cie that powers all of the other fal'Cie in Cocoon. If you think of Cocoon as a giant machine with the fal'Cie as various components and controllers of that machine, then Orphan is the main power supply.



What exactly is Ragnarok?



This is not well explained. Ragnarok is a specialized form that Fang and Vanille can transform into, and it is capable of killing fal'Cie.



The unseen world = Valhalla, correct? How did Lightning enter this place? (be aware that I haven't finished XIII-2 but I think I heard she is the reincarnation of the Goddess Etro, but I wouldn't imagine that Lightning decides to commit suicide)



Valhalla exists in the unseen world. How Lightning gets there is something that is explained during FFXIII-2. Basically, she gets dragged into the unseen realm by chaos.



If Rosch knew the truth about the Fal Cie, and the L'Cie, why did he keep turning against the party until the very end?



I don't think he really understood the truth. I think he believed the general propaganda about the evilness of Pulse, and I don't think he knew that Barthandelus was trying to get Cocoon destroyed. He knew that the "Purge" was actually about killing the people, not exporting them, but he was willing to do that because he believed it was for the greater good.

Leaferian-379423
13th Apr 2013, 04:38
Orphan is the fal'Cie that powers all of the other fal'Cie in Cocoon. If you think of Cocoon as a giant machine with the fal'Cie as various components and controllers of that machine, then Orphan is the main power supply.




This is accurate, but on top of that Orphan appears to have been the first fal'Cie constructed by Lindzei, and constructed specifically for the purpose of providing power to Cocoon. As an aside to this subject,it was revealed in the Final Fantasy XIII Ultimania that the 'first' form of Orphan, the sword-like construct which possesses Barthandelus' face, is meant to represent the theme of 'Sin and Salvation' common through both of the games so far. The golden, slightly feminine half (which vaguely resembles one of the logos) is supposed to represent Barthandelus' idea of Lindzei's form, and it is at least implied (although the translation I've seen outright states) that Barthandelus and many of the other fal'Cie of Cocoon have never met their parent god.





It's also worth noting that while the fal'Cie are bound to their purpose like machines or the Judeo-Christian angels, they appear to have at least some wiggle room. As the Orphanized Barthandelus says, "Too frail a shell, and humans should not thrive. Too stout a shell and they would not die." So, while the Cocoon fal'Cie cannot strike Cocoon down or cause it to fall through the failure of the world's systems, they can make sure the structure of the world is weak enough that a crash would almost certainly destroy all life aboard.




This is not well explained. Ragnarok is a specialized form that Fang and Vanille can transform into, and it is capable of killing fal'Cie.




My understanding from the datalog entries and small snippets in the Ultimania is that Ragnarok is a beast born from the crystal power of a l'Cie interacting with the fragment of Chaos that exists in every human heart. It is, essentially, a manifestation of the 'limitless power' the fal'Cie all hope to harness when they make l'Cie of human beings. It is implied that the form of Ragnarok may change depending on who becomes the beast, and as I recall it was offhandedly mentioned that the form of Ragnarok that Fang and Vanille become together has characteristics from both of their Eidolons.




Valhalla exists in the unseen world. How Lightning gets there is something that is explained during FFXIII-2. Basically, she gets dragged into the unseen realm by chaos.




This is a little difficult to pin down. Although Valhalla is mentioned as being the Unseen Realm, the XIII-2 Ultimania describes it as a sort of halfway dimension that souls pass through on their way to whatever comes next. The novel 'Fragments After' says that nobody knows what comes next, and theorizes that human souls may be consumed by Chaos, pass on to some 'other place', or simply be flung into the Void and destroyed.




I don't think he really understood the truth. I think he believed the general propaganda about the evilness of Pulse, and I don't think he knew that Barthandelus was trying to get Cocoon destroyed. He knew that the "Purge" was actually about killing the people, not exporting them, but he was willing to do that because he believed it was for the greater good.




This is fairly on the money. Yaag Rosch realizes very quickly that the l'Cie are not actually mindless, vicious monsters out to destroy Cocoon but feels they must be put down in order to quiet the minds of the people. I believe he even says as much to Snow in Palumpolum, when he asks if the lives of the l'Cie were worth more than the lives of the panicking innocents. He knew that the world was full of incredibly xenophobic people, and that fullscale riots would surely result from a failure to put the l'Cie down.





There are some more important bits that could do with mentioning, but it's not good to talk about them until one has beaten XIII-2.

Mikealpotter06
2nd Jun 2013, 23:30
^Kudos! Yous a baws. :P

horrorking34
18th Jun 2013, 17:21
wow ty ive been a fan since 8 bit ty so much square !!!

williamf14
25th Jun 2013, 07:25
^Kudos! Yous a baws. :P


please help me i have a bug, i can't back to the castle avalon (i ve finish the game)

williamf14
25th Jun 2013, 07:26
^Kudos! Yous a baws. :P

Leaferian-379423
25th Jun 2013, 16:39
^Kudos! Yous a baws. :P




Hahaha, thank you. :P I paid quite close attention to the games and to the various extra materials, so I try to clerar up confusion wherever I can.

bigtakilla
26th Jun 2013, 02:05
opinion of the xiii series, in one word, GARBAGE!

blackluster117
16th Aug 2013, 08:53
Although Final Fantasy XIII is one of the only games I've played in the series, it has still been fantastic. A responsive and well organized combat system, extensive leveling options, and compelling story round the game out nicely. Though Hope gets really annoying, really quickly. Like really freaking annoying.

Mauexxx
16th Aug 2013, 08:58
Although Final Fantasy XIII is one of the only games I've played in the series, it has still been fantastic. A responsive and well organized combat system, extensive leveling options, and compelling story round the game out nicely. Though Hope gets really annoying, really quickly. Like really freaking annoying.

XIII was ok in my opinion but the have better ones. My favorite is FFX & FFXII i put well over a 100hrs in each game and still play i started playing VII and i am loving the game and i also liked crisis core even tho it is not one of the main ones

DarkTiamatZERO
4th Sep 2013, 09:44
opinion of the xiii series, in one word, GARBAGE!

^ this.

DarkTiamatZERO
4th Sep 2013, 09:49
Is this a Final Fantasy? No, this is a PS3 tech demo.

That FF7 Opening you saw back in 2005? THAT was a Final Fantasy.

Hippy_Pickle
4th Sep 2013, 10:03
Is this a Final Fantasy? No, this is a PS3 tech demo.

That FF7 Opening you saw back in 2005? THAT was a Final Fantasy.

Why you resurrected this old argument after 4 months of inactivity is beyond me, I gather you like pulling off scabs and salting the wound don't you?! lol.

I think peoples gripes about XIII was the linear way it played, but that doesn't make it any less of a FF title, it's still got the FF feel with similar mobs etc, you still level and get new gear. The story was what mattered to me and as always with FF games it drew me in regardless of the linear gameplay.

I'll probably get flamed for this next comment but I think most would agree that the reason the game was so linear was because they had to cut out great chunks of the content to make it work on the Xbox and that still took up 3 discs which were compressed to the max. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for Final Fantasy getting out to the masses on any format but it shouldn't be at the expense of the game content being stripped away.

alanman178
27th Sep 2013, 02:23
I remember in one of his interviews, Yoshinori Kitase mentioned that they had never planned on using the "RPG Template" for FF13. He said they were hoping to create a new genre. So, where does that leave the RPG lovers? It leaves them shaking their heads while holding their arms up in the air.

Hippy_Pickle2
30th Sep 2013, 08:21
If you go on what RPG means, as in a Role Playing Game, then XIII is exactly that. You take on the role of a set of characters and go on a quest to save the world, whats not RPG about that?! It may not follow the same template as previous Final Fantasy games but it's still an RPG.

Mad_Angel
30th Sep 2013, 18:08
If you go on what RPG means, as in a Role Playing Game, then XIII is exactly that. You take on the role of a set of characters and go on a quest to save the world, whats not RPG about that?! It may not follow the same template as previous Final Fantasy games but it's still an RPG.

With that definition, every game is an RPG...

alanman178
1st Oct 2013, 00:59
All people have to do is play the first nine numbered titles. Then, play everything after them. After that, they 'should' understand why so many fans are a little disappointed.

Replace the guns with swords and magic, and remove co-op in the "Call of Duty" games. Then, listen to the developers talk about how they wanted to "try new things", and "create a new genre". Listen to them talk about "change" and "innovation" after that. It sounds pretty "out there" and really stupid, doesn't it? Well, now you know how people like myself feel.

Hippy_Pickle2
1st Oct 2013, 08:34
With that definition, every game is an RPG...

Ok to elaborate further a lot of complaints is the ATB system of past titles not being present in FFXIII but it is still there, you still have to wait to attack. Another complaint is that you don't directly control the entire party but where is it stated that's a necessity for an RPG?

I should have probably said JRPG where you take on the role of crazy haired and costumed characters to save the world ;)

Yes the format may have changed but it's still firmly got it's roots in the FF universe. If the fans were truly disappointed then it wouldn't have sold so many copies and spawned 2 sequels and you can't say it's just SE forcing sequels down our necks, if it wasn't selling then they wouldn't make it.

Everyone is obviously entitled to their opinions but for me it's a bit like Metallica, a lot of people hate the St Anger album but for me I will agree it's not the best but I don't dislike it because it's still Metallica. In the same way I don't dislike FFXIII, it may not be the best of the series but it's Final Fantasy :D

Mad_Angel
1st Oct 2013, 23:32
Ok to elaborate further a lot of complaints is the ATB system of past titles not being present in FFXIII but it is still there, you still have to wait to attack. Another complaint is that you don't directly control the entire party but where is it stated that's a necessity for an RPG?

Well, not really.
People complain because the game is very linear, the story makes no sense, there are no towns, the characters are annoying, the villains are laughable, all equipment is useless, character progression is fixed, 30 hours tutorial, ...


I should have probably said JRPG where you take on the role of crazy haired and costumed characters to save the world ;)
Honestly, with the massification of RPG-elements in other game genres, it is now harder than ever to define "what is an RPG". Yet, I associate RPG with freedom and choice:
Freedom to explore the world at my own pace.
Freedom to evolve and level up characters as I please, making each party element unique.
Different weapons/equipment to choose from and see how they change the way characters look and behave.
Many optional side-quest to choose from and be rewarded with awesome items for finishing them.

Unfortunately, FFXIII offered player neither freedom nor choice. Thus, to me, it is not an RPG.


Yes the format may have changed but it's still firmly got it's roots in the FF universe. If the fans were truly disappointed then it wouldn't have sold so many copies and spawned 2 sequels and you can't say it's just SE forcing sequels down our necks, if it wasn't selling then they wouldn't make it.

FFXIII-2 sold less then half of FFXIII, so I wouldn't conclude fans wanted another game set in the XIII universe. IMO, these 2 sequels only exists because they are really cheap to make...


Everyone is obviously entitled to their opinions but for me it's a bit like Metallica, a lot of people hate the St Anger album but for me I will agree it's not the best but I don't dislike it because it's still Metallica. In the same way I don't dislike FFXIII, it may not be the best of the series but it's Final Fantasy :D

And that is the problem. I can't like a game, or an album, or a movie a priori just because it is from a franchise or an artist that I'm fan of.
FF fans can't be acritical. If something is wrong we should make our voices heard so that SE realizes how they may improve in the future, believing that SE listen. If they don't, well... what can we do about that?

alanman178
2nd Oct 2013, 01:45
If the fans were truly disappointed then it wouldn't have sold so many copies and spawned 2 sequels and you can't say it's just SE forcing sequels down our necks, if it wasn't selling then they wouldn't make it.


Well, a lot of us have kept purchasing the games with the hopes of SE showing some love for the older fans. So, the "Sales" argument doesn't really work here. Personally, I want SE to continue to develop FF games. It would just be nice to see some games developed at least 'closely' to what got me into the series in the 1st place. I was loving the series from 1990 to 2000. Then, BAM! A sudden change, and the series has been very 'shifty' ever since. They've made the kinds of changes that 'failing' companies make after a few unsuccessful titles.

Hippy_Pickle2
2nd Oct 2013, 08:41
Haters gonna hate, don't like it, don't buy it. I like it, I'll buy it, simples ;)

Mad_Angel
2nd Oct 2013, 09:16
Haters gonna hate, don't like it, don't buy it. I like it, I'll buy it, simples ;)

LOL that is the way to go: If you can't counter argue, then say "Haters gonna hate". So cliché...

Hippy_Pickle2
2nd Oct 2013, 12:42
LOL that is the way to go: If you can't counter argue, then say "Haters gonna hate". So cliché...

What's to argue? Everyone has their opinions but as per a lot of the replies on this thread already, to say FFXIII is not Final Fantasy is silly, to say you don't like it or don't like the direction the series has gone in is fair enough but the bottom line is this is Final Fantasy, just not one you obviously enjoy yourself.

What's the point in arguing further? It's a game, no one is going to die because it no longer has what you may consider as a necessity to make it a RPG.

So in closing I'll repeat myself, if you don't like it then don't buy it.

Mad_Angel
2nd Oct 2013, 23:19
What's to argue? (...) What's the point in arguing further?

That was my point: If you have nothing to add, just don't reply. Your previous comment (calling people haters) is extremely disrespecting and only fuels negativity towards an already sensitive topic.

Hippy_Pickle2
3rd Oct 2013, 08:34
I didn't specifically call anyone a hater, it was merely a comment that there is a lot of hate towards this game and people that hate are going to do everything they possibly can to confirm their hate towards something. Also you have also just done a double negative yourself by saying
If you have nothing to add, just don't reply so what is that if not fueling negativity in itself?

Again I will reiterate previous comments from other posters that the OP of this thread was saying that FFXIII is not Final Fantasy but this game IS Final Fantasy regardless to anyones preference to what makes an RPG, regardless to changes to the games system and regardless to the direction the series of games may have gone or is going to.

I will say no more on the subject and if you consider that a win for yourself that I will not respond further then that's nice for you, enjoy your 'win'.

Mad_Angel
3rd Oct 2013, 09:52
I didn't specifically call anyone a hater, it was merely a comment that there is a lot of hate towards this game and people that hate are going to do everything they possibly can to confirm their hate towards something.
Not specifically but you did call anyone who doesn't share your opinion on the subject a hater.


Also you have also just done a double negative yourself by saying so what is that if not fueling negativity in itself?
BTW, a "double negative" occurs when two forms of negation are used in the same sentence. I don't see how that applies to that specific sentence or to what I said in my previous post...


Again I will reiterate previous comments from other posters that the OP of this thread was saying that FFXIII is not Final Fantasy but this game IS Final Fantasy regardless to anyones preference to what makes an RPG, regardless to changes to the games system and regardless to the direction the series of games may have gone or is going to.
So let me distill your argument: "Final Fantasy XIII is a Final Fantasy because I said so. I don't care for other's opinions or different arguments on what makes a game an RPG because FFXIII is axiomatically a Final Fantasy. That is final. No further discussion. If you disagree with me you're an hater."
Whatever floats your boat, dude.


I will say no more on the subject and if you consider that a win for yourself that I will not respond further then that's nice for you, enjoy your 'win'.
Sigh... again, very mature. Arguing is not about winning. It's about building a coherent speech that helps others understand what you believe in and why. If you can't do that, well then you lost. But no one won.

alanman178
4th Oct 2013, 02:23
There are people who loved everything, or dang near everything, about the series for 10 to 14 years before the major changes started. So, it's only natural for them to be upset with SE these days.

FF10 made me a little nervous because of how extra-linear it was compared to the previous titles. But, I did give Squaresoft some credit for adding voices to the series. And, they did do a good job with what they had set out to accomplish. But, I NEVER thought that FF9 would be the last time I'd see that world-design I'd loved for 10 years. And now, with FF15 around the corner looking a little "Devil May Cryish".... It just makes me feel a little sad.

SE owns "Final Fantasy". So, they can place that title on any game they make. Well, all I can say to that is I loved what they did for 10 years. I never had any serious issues with any of their games during that period. They were the Kings, and I was their loyal follower. Then, they started to change and eliminate things. I haven't been the same since.

DarkTiamatZERO
12th Nov 2013, 12:31
Lol no, this argument will NEVER go away. Because they're now releasing a 3rd GAME, 2nd SEQUEL to this stupid FF13 series.

As if the first two games weren't bad enough. As long as this series keeps pissing me off, I'm going to keep complaining about it. It's like everyone forgot that the original creator, Hironobu Sakaguchi, jumped ship after FFX-2. As if losing the original creator doesn't affect a franchise's quality in any way? Hello? This is reality on the phone: Of course the franchise is going to keep sucking because its going to keep being interpreted by other people who don't get the creator's vision. Just like how the movie Troy (2004) made me LoL when they had Achilles kill Agamemnon in the middle of the Trojan War. THAT NEVER HAPPENED in the book!

Let me make it real simple for you why FF13 is NOT a Final Fantasy and IS an eyecandy game:

1.) Dull gameplay: 1 PC and the rest are bots. Monsters take literally hundreds of strikes to defeat and their HP bars BARELY get reduced even by the end of the game with maxed out stats and gear. The stagger system is neat at first, but becomes irritating once you realize that its actually REQUIRED to exploit it in EVERY SINGLE FIGHT just to beat the game! And on top of that, you are REQUIRED to switch between 3 different Paradigms (classes) during every single fight or you CAN'T win. All of that tedious and unnecessary management wears on your nerves fast. Combat feels stiff and unengaging. It's just mashing the X button at the right time. Characters execute fancy flips and kicks on an ATB timer, but there's almost no input from the player. You can set the game to Auto-Battle and then even your PC becomes a bot. In fact, I use the Auto-Battle feature a lot because it's actually significantly faster than entering commands with the controller. It's like the game is playing itself! I think that the most important aspect of any game is the gameplay. And if you're not ACTIVELY PLAYING, then it's not even a game anymore. It's an interactive storybook.

The entire game is a linear and synthetic experience. Nothing about it feels real. There are no interactable NPCs (unless you count the handfull of Snow's group). There's no towns or stores to explore and buy things from. Everything is sold electronically through a floating save point. 30 hours of tutorial is annoying and makes you feel like you still haven't started the game yet. There are no dungeons anymore and no minigames. Well, unless you count the gauntlet challenge sidequest near the end of the game, but even that was short and extremely repetitive. You can only walk on one path through one endless hallway (at least until the VERY end of the game). All of the monsters are pre-programmed and sitting there waiting for you... there's no random encounters. Nothing about this game is random in the slightest. Everything is fixed and calculated down to the smallest particle. Problem is, that's not realistic. Gamers can't relate to a fakey, perfect world where nothing ever goes wrong. Life is full of entropy and unpredictability. Knowing that everything is pre-ordained and is going to happen in a certain order is just boring to the degree that there's no point in even playing the game. Because you don't feel like you've accomplished anything.

Upgrading equipment is pointless. Your starting weapons are just as powerful as any of the ones you can find, with VERY minor stat differences. And any weapon can be upgraded to the ultimate version, so there's no reason to find or buy anything. None of the accessories are required for completing the game, they just make the boss fights SLIGHTLY easier. Upgrading itself is dull. It's just grinding tons and tons of items from monsters, because they don't drop gil anymore (so idiotic...) and selling them for cash. It's just repeatedly exploiting gameplay elements for hours on end instead of actually playing through the game and enjoying it while you upgrade weapons.

The leveling system is utterly boring as well. Again, you just hold the X button to advance your character until the CP runs out. And every single character is pre-built into certain classes that you can't change. Their advancement is artificially capped at each point in the story to prevent you from becoming too powerful during the boss fights. It doesn't even have the freedom and complexity of choosing your own bonuses that you had in FFX. At least in that game, yeah things were linear, but you had SOME control over customizing your abilities and when you earned them. Here, everything is literally pre-ordained by the developers to the point that its LoL ridiculous. It's so ironic and funny that I honestly think that they did this on purpose just to fit the theme of the game: You can't change your own fate... everything is pre-ordained. There's no choice in your leveling, class, gear, party composition, conversations with other characters, where you want to go, or even how you fight your battles. You're overworked... underpaid... and have no control over your own life. And this is what the Fal'Cie keep feeding you throughout the entire game.

2.) Dull story and characters: The story makes NO sense. Yes, I listened to every line of bland dialogue and read every single word of datalog in this entire game, and I STILL didn't understand the story until the very end. The whole theme of the game is that there is no such thing as choice. People are pre-ordained from birth by fate and incomprehensible beings (the Fal'Cie) to live certain lives, accomplish specific goals to each person, and die. That's it. Humans need the Fal'Cie in the same way that we need a God: To give us a reason to exist and to guide us toward a purpose. The twist here is that Lightning's group proves that people ARE capable of making choices and can decide their own destinies. And it's actually the Fal'Cie that need humans in order to have a reason to exist. This inverts the laws of the world as they know it and life changes forever. How does it change? I dunno. It's left open for interpretation. Pretty standard stuff, right? But the story is told in such an incoherent, backwards manner that its impossible for average people to understand. Characters don't act like real human beings. Entire settings are never explained. Background info is all buried within datalogs that you unlock by completing dozens of sidequests at the end. The protagonists never collect any clues, hell they barely even deal out exposition during the cutscenes. There is so much small talk and combat in cutscenes that its ridiculous. The villain never makes his motives or goals clear. The characters are never given a clear goal to follow, they just split up and wander around interpreting the plot however they feel like. When they FINALLY get something concrete to do, its near the very end of the game and its for reasons we either don't understand or care nothing about. We never see HOW Cocoon suffers, we never learn how its people think, we never see any of Pulse's backstory or why the two worlds hate each other. It's all TOLD to us through boring dialogue and stupid datalogs that nobody wants to read. We want to SEE how this stuff happened through a visual medium of storytelling. It's actually an amazing experience to sit through. How did they write something THIS bad? You have to TRY to do this poorly. I'm pretty sure they even did it on purpose just to totally alienate the fans.

I don't care about any of these characters. Not even Lightning (although her design is awesome). She and all the rest are just cardboard cutout eyecandy to me. Why? Well, all voice-acting aside, we never see the most important aspects of these character's backstories:

How did Lightning and Serah live out their childhood after their parents died/abandoned them? How did Lightning eventually come to join the Guardian Corps? Why did she grow up to be as cold and emotionless as she is?

Who was Sazh's wife and how did they fall in love and have baby Dajh? What was Sazh like spending time with his family intact before the events of the game?

How did Snow grow up on the streets of Cocoon and eventually meet his companions? How and why did they form NORA? How did he meet and fall in love with Serah?

What was Hope's life like with his mother and father before the game? How did Hope grow to resent his father and become more attached to his mother?

What was Fang and Vanille's life back on Pulse 600 years ago? What did Oerba look like before it was destroyed? What were the people like there? How did they act? How did they fight their wars? What was their culture like? How did Fang and Vanille get frozen? IMO, this one in particular was the BIGGEST missed opportunity in the entire game's story!

There's SO MUCH we could have learned. We could have actually felt the bond between Lightning and her sister. We could have believed the forced love relationship between Snow and Serah. We could have seen an upbeat and confident Sazh that changed into a cowardly pessimist. We could have grown to like an innocent Hope that went through turmoil to mature from a child into an idealistic young man. We could have seen exactly why Fang and Vanille were so close and actually cared about their fates at the end of the game.

But no... in this reality, we had to be TOLD about these character's backstories instead of actually SEEING and interpreting them for ourselves. We never feel any real emotional connections to these characters because we're never given a way to relate to them. So in the end, we don't care what happens to them. This is why FF13 is so god awful, terrible and doesn't even hold a candle to any of the earlier games. It's all of the gorgeous graphics and music we've come to expect... but with none of the gameplay and storytelling to back it up. It's quite literally the Starwars Prequels of the Final Fantasy franchise.

alanman178
14th Nov 2013, 02:27
Speaking of prequels... I would've rather had a prequel to FF13 because, I thought the ending of FF13 was clear and good enough. I'm not saying that I 'wanted' one. I'm just saying if they had to make another FF13 game, a 'prequel' probably would've been a better idea. But, all of it is really unnecessary anyway. We should just be talking about FF15 and FF16 at this point. Anyway, so continues the ongoing struggles of being a FF Fan. lol

Geomyrson
25th Dec 2013, 23:17
I agree with DarkTiamatZERO, but I'm rly rly attracted to the characters =).
Items are rly rly expensive in this game and you don't get enough money from battles.
The art is as always amazing but the gameplay lacks.
I still don't understand the story until now.... and I have yet to play ff-13 2. < heard its almost the same as ff13 in terms of gameplay.
I hope ff lightning returns is better =).

jimmylittle007
29th Dec 2013, 23:27
Wasn't loving it at first, stopped playing at CH10 because it was all too repetitive...then a mate got me FFXIII2 for Christmas so I started up FFXIII again just to tie up the loose ends...it's still a bit too 'cold' for me and suffers from the confusing story and one dimensional cliche characters that all FF games (and arguably most JRPGS) suffer from...but once you've mastered the combat techniques and the crystarium it's kinda fun to play from that perspective, FF for some reason is always a fun game to level/exp grind in. It's not a great game, but it's not as awful as its made out to be...FFXIII2 looks a lot better though (I've only played the intro bit so far before they get to the meteor crash site)...Serah's already an incredibly annoying cliche 'FF chick' though...whiny, weak and constantly expecting to be rescued...hoping her character might develop a little but not expecting it given Square's approach to female characters in general. Mostly I just wanna finish XIII so I can start XIII2 properly :p

ungamer14
16th Jan 2014, 18:48
i know you all treat a japanese game as an anime, but you also treat an english game as an A-movie film

well i don't understand how anyone and everyone can judge the difference between a good actor and a bad actor, whether it's a game, cartoon or film

soraeon
19th Feb 2014, 00:32
i love ffxiii series as well, in this game there is one of my 2 all time fav characters, number one being Vivi Orunitia, and number two Oerba Dia Vanille, i just love her carefree character from the outside with a dark secret and a worlds burden on the inside.

FrenchDog
19th Feb 2014, 22:10
Good to see people talking about the games and peoples different opinions.

Personally I didn't enjoy the game; The story was amazing, I loved the characters (Fang and Snow were my favourite), I really liked the environments including the monsters and bosses but I didn't like the combat system and unfortunately the combat system is a big part of the game. I loved the fact that SE tried to up the pace of combat by ditching the turned-based aspect but the combat system they used in 13 made me feel like I had little to no control of my combat decisions and character, it felt like what I did didn't really matter. I felt like although the battles felt far more fluid, the combat had lost depth in a way.

As I say this is my own opinion and other than that I loved the game and what I love even more is the fact that SE is trying to model FF into its own style and not just another turn-based J-RPG (not that the series has ever been just that). It's great news for gamers that there are companies out there like SE who arnt taking the "call of duty" route and releasing a game each year that is, in essence the same thing but newer.

Looking forward to FF15!

squall_kitsune
6th Mar 2014, 19:00
Loved it.

Didn't buy it till it was a bargain because of bad reviews and FF friends who told me I wouldn't like it. Also, I was turned off by lack of turn-based battle. I'm one of those "older" gamers…being over 30.

It took a little while for me to warm up to. But after I embraced the battle system, I loved it. I love the character designs (aside from Snow…mostly his hat/hair, haha). I love Lightning. Didn't like Vanille's voice at first, but she wound up as one of my favorite characters. Sazh has a chocofro.

Still wish it had the traditional Prelude and Victory Fanfare in the game…but, Hamauzu wrote some beautiful songs.

The trilogy taken as a whole is one of my favorite Final Fantasy worlds/stories. And I've played them all except XIV. It's not my favorite, but it shares something in common with my favorite (VIII) -- it has garnered a lot of hate. Not from me though, it's a great game, and I plan to replay it after finishing up a few other RPGs.

It's also been my favorite RPG of the generation. And I played most of the way through Lost Odyssey, and The Last Story (both of which I enjoyed, though I haven't finished either), and have limited time into Tales of Vesperia, Xenoblade, and a few others. I just bought Ni No Kuni and Tales of Graces f so haven't played either yet - and won't until I'm finished with Lightning Returns, which will probably be awhile…because I love it.

In short, it's a game that I think is highly misrepresented, subject to a lot of false accusations, and complete bias. Things that can be praised in other RPG reviews are penalized in reference to any XIII game. It's out of control, so even though I love XIII, XIII-2, and Lightning Returns…I'm glad it's over. Just in hopes that it means less pointless "journalism" aimed solely at mocking XIII, Square-Enix, and Lightning. Sorry to go off on a tangent.

ZetaThompson
23rd Mar 2014, 19:01
This topic is titled Your Opinion, So here is mine.

The battle mechanics were good, overall though I did not care for the game. I felt no empathy for most of the characters. Hope in particular annoyed me, as such I found myself avoiding using him. I stopped playing rather early on as neither the story nor the characters held my interest. On the other hand, I have talked to many people who viewed previous FF games as too difficult, who loved the interactive movie concept. FWIW all of these also like the Kingdom Hearts franchise while I do not. I think this was the Final Final Fantasy for me.

EmiyatheArcher
17th Feb 2015, 19:38
Something that generally frustrated me was that people were clearly biased against this game. I loved this game, and it was my first Final Fantasy so i appraoched with an open mind. I loved the story, characters, and the game play. The story was criticized for being confusing, but its silly to criticize it for being confusing as that means that you did not understand it, not everyone. The gameplay was difficult, but fun and sometimes epic. I loved the characters, aside from my mixed feelings toward Hope. The setting was fantastic, and i loved the message of the game. I will admit that I might be a little biased here, but so are the haters of the game. My one complaint is the linearity of the game, but I feel that it isn't relevant enough to warrant hate. I did enjoy the cieth stones on pulse, but they were a bit too late in the game. It might have been a bit wiser to place some similar content a little earlier.

Time for some general series stuff. Since I bought, and beat, the XIIi trilogy, I have started playing other Final Fantasy games. I have beat FF VII, and I am in the middle of VIII and VI. VII is so ridiculously over-rated that it isn't even funny. The fact that it is the standard for the series is a massive joke. Don't get me wrong, It's a great game. But the VII fans have corrupted their perception of the game to the point that they will never be satisfied. But i'll probably put some actual criticisms of the game itself on the VII page. Any other final fantasy game I should play next?

silentkiller17
18th Mar 2015, 23:37
I loved this game! I played on 360 + pc but the trouble is the performance... i'm getting 30fps when playing this game on my gtx 750ti....
I really hope to see some improvements done with LR. But i don't think they'll give dlc free... properly they will but who knows?

joswilliams85
1st Feb 2016, 13:22
I know that many people consider FF XIII the worst part, but I disagree with them. Yes, the game is pretty linear, combat system...well it's not that bad, but sometimes(especially during boss battles) it could be overfast, but like the story,characters... some of the previous FF games were a bit childlish, but that one has more serious,even depressing atmosphere- I think that's the reason I liked it.

SKape4
15th Mar 2016, 23:09
I really LOVE the Story of the whole trilogy, including the characters, the settings etc.
But I have one serious question, one that didn't even get answered in XIII-3. What exactly is the relationship between Hope and Vanille? I saw many opinions in a few forums (A lot different opinions). Those two characters showed so much hints, that they liked each other very much and I could really imagine those two as a couple, but those clear hints are sadly everything that the game offered in this direction, maybe I'm just interpreting too much, but there was never something that would invalidate such a relationship between them just the opposite (correct me if I'm wrong here). I even searched for a official Statement from SE for this (ridiculous, I know), but I found nothing and it kinda annoys me to have those questions after a whole trilogy, don't understand me wrong, this was just the most important question for me, there are some other little but ,,interesting" things that became forgotten in the main Story, in my opinion. Maybe someone here knows more than I do about this question.
Sorry if this isn't the right thread for this post, but I couldn't find a better one at the moment and sorry for possible grammar mistakes and similar things :)

RiedSagittaire
15th Apr 2016, 07:52
I know I'm speaking for a small part of the community but, I just wish I could play them all like the offline games from before (not that I"m requesting that, just being honest). I'm not really a gamer so I never came into the series wanting to challenge other people but rather for a good story. I only play Final Fantasy XIV and I know I'm not particularly good at the game but I do enjoy it every bit as much as the classics like 5, 7, 8, 9, 10, and 12. It feels like them and the story is multifaceted and engaging, but I have a hard time running the game with my network and honestly even if I didn't I would probably be more of a hindrance than a help for a good long while while I found time to practice playing with my graphics working above 7 Frames per Second. To wrap it all up, your multiplayer games are amazing, both XI and XIV had narratives that I enjoyed and was happy to pay for, but a middle ground between the nostalgia and lighthearted tones of your MMOs and the futuristic stark atmosphere your single player games would be nice. Square Enix does amazing world building but the more rising action, the less time there is to explore the world they built.

KingLeoryc
25th Apr 2016, 22:31
Greetings.

I understand that some people don't like FF-13 for some reasons, but I really can't understand why some of them HATE it.

I'm a old gamer, I'm 32 years old. I've played FF series since FF-8, and I've a special care for FF-8 and FF-9, FF-10 and 10-2 were good to me, but nothing so much special, FF-11 I don't played, FF-12 was a piece of junk, and because of my hate for FF-12 I was afraid FF-13 would be another trash. But then, I simply LOVED it.

The game is linear? Yes it is, but to me this is not a reason to HATE the game. I loved every character, specially Lightning, I loved the paradigm battle system, and the plot really involved me, specially in 13-2 and 13-3 (LR). FF-13 saga becomes to me the best FF ever.


I really LOVE the Story of the whole trilogy, including the characters, the settings etc.
But I have one serious question, one that didn't even get answered in XIII-3. What exactly is the relationship between Hope and Vanille? I saw many opinions in a few forums (A lot different opinions). Those two characters showed so much hints, that they liked each other very much and I could really imagine those two as a couple, but those clear hints are sadly everything that the game offered in this direction, maybe I'm just interpreting too much, but there was never something that would invalidate such a relationship between them just the opposite (correct me if I'm wrong here). I even searched for a official Statement from SE for this (ridiculous, I know), but I found nothing and it kinda annoys me to have those questions after a whole trilogy, don't understand me wrong, this was just the most important question for me, there are some other little but ,,interesting" things that became forgotten in the main Story, in my opinion. Maybe someone here knows more than I do about this question.
Sorry if this isn't the right thread for this post, but I couldn't find a better one at the moment and sorry for possible grammar mistakes and similar things :)

I believe it is only empathy. Vanille was the one who was together with Hope since he lost his mom, he was extremelly fragile at that moment (emotional), and Vanille is a very patient and benevolent person, she "babysitted" him. Lightning had not that same patience, she begins to admire him only after he becomes more "mature" during the development of the events.

I also believe them could to become a couple, if they had time to convive more, but in the end of the game Vanille did not leave the crystall, and they don't encounter nevermore.

joswilliams85
28th Apr 2016, 14:11
I'll make it short. I liked FF XIII. Really liked it. Story, characters...it was awesome. But sequels... I still have doubts whether The Lightning Returns was really needed.

KingLeoryc
30th Apr 2016, 03:37
I'll make it short. I liked FF XIII. Really liked it. Story, characters...it was awesome. But sequels... I still have doubts whether The Lightning Returns was really needed.

Of course it was. The 13-2 had a very unfair ending, and LR came to give the characters a good ending, Toriyama said exactly that. Actually the ending went not the best I had imagined, but it was good, at least.

But regardless the good ending, I loved to play FF 13 again, to me, how more FF 13 titles we may have, better, I wished even a LR-2, with Lightning as the savior of the Earth. It seems all other characters rebirth/reincarnate, only Lightning not. Thus it seems she becomes the new guardian of the new world. I would like to see a sequel for this.