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Pipa2
17th Feb 2003, 14:22
I was thinking that Thief III would be good with some control of cold temperatures, like other games use.

I mean, for example, in a mission with snow, when you are outside a little bar (or some other marker) that shows you how cold you get. If you stay out and the level of cold of your body is enough, you start receiving damage. And you die of cold if you do not get inside.

I think that would be good, there could be a couple of missions where you have to spend some time outside, and you are close to die of freezing. And of course, this would help inventing a new item: the "Warming potion" or something like that, which would increase your body temperature.

Munin the Raven
17th Feb 2003, 18:41
I've always thought it would be better for Thief to focus more on stealth and avoiding detection than having to worry about how environmental conditions impact health.

However, a game is coming out this year that will feature very sophisticated health and "sanity" systems, including a hypothermia factor: http://www.callofcthulhu.co.uk/ie.php

Thief13x
17th Feb 2003, 20:01
why couldn't he just wear a coat?:cool:

Zaccheus
17th Feb 2003, 21:26
Cold, hunger and tieredness could affect a thief and could be part of a Thief game.

Pipa2
18th Feb 2003, 01:25
Cold, hunger and tieredness could affect a thief and could be part of a Thief game.

Yes, it is true.

But, however, I was thinking that Thief missions are in real time, and that an average time to complete a mission in Thief is between one and two hours, and that time cannot be enough to produce hunger. Tiredness? That would be good, at least when Garrett runs too much he would need time to recover air.

And you are right Munin, Thief is a stealth game and environmental conditions should not impact on health.

Maybe the cold control would not work in Thief, but I thought it would be good because in Commandos 2 you have it, and it works pretty well in there. But of course, it is a strategy game and not an action one.

Munin the Raven
18th Feb 2003, 01:38
I've always thought that a stamina/"tiredness" meter might be a good edition to Thief, especially for higher difficulty settings. Return to Castle Wolfenstein has this feature. It's a bar that depletes when you run or sprint, and when it's fully depleted you can't sprint anymore but you can still jump, and it quickly regenerates when you stop sprinting or jumping. This allows the player a brief speed advantage over the AI for evasion purposes (unlike in Thief II), but prevents the player from just dashing their way to victory, something that's relatively easy to do in Thief TDP/Gold.

RicknMel
18th Feb 2003, 16:45
I always felt it was a little far fetched how much Garrett could carry too. Maybe the more he carries, the quicker he should get tired, and the slower he could run??

You would be forced to "think" about what you are going to taff...instead of just grabbing everything in sight "because you can".

I'm sure the slowness part would be a fairly easy addition. The sword already slows you down when you have it drawn, so "the code" already exists.

That is all....carry on.
;)

Mr. Perfect
19th Feb 2003, 21:31
O_O Egads. And how many people already hate the sword slowing thing? The things you're mentioning sound more like RPG features.

Keep it how it is. No weather, no stamina bars, no shanigans.

Munin the Raven
19th Feb 2003, 22:00
I'd really hate having more RPG-like features including being effected by weight and/or bulk and any kind of skill points/levels system.

I used to be opposed to the idea of a stamina bar, until I realized that it wouldn't disable Garrett at all. Garrett is way too slow in Thief II and the only reason he's fast in Thief TDP/Gold is because of the multi-jump. He needs a way to move fast in times of distress or when making a dash for loot, an exit, etc., but if he could constantly sprint it would make the game too easy. So the feature would give Garrett an additional advantage over his enemies without grossly overpowering him. I thought it was a well-used feature in RTCW.

ChangelingJane
20th Feb 2003, 19:48
Garrett sprints all that way, only to have the sounds of heavy breathing give away his position! Damn! ^_~

Pipa2
21st Feb 2003, 17:12
So the feature would give Garrett an additional advantage over his enemies without grossly overpowering him.

Well, I never liked that too much. Having additional advantages over enemies is good, but not too much. I think T2 is good as it is in how you are compared to your enemies. I always liked the fact that you are less resistant than your enemies to the hits of sword (In expert mode you die with almost two hits and a little more), and that is something that comes from TDP.

Munin the Raven
21st Feb 2003, 18:11
But Garrett has very little or no armor and isn't lugging around a heavy mace/hammer or large sword, so he should be able to outrun is enemies.

Thieves are tradtionally known for being fleet of foot as well as their deception and sneakery.;)

Shadow Man
22nd Feb 2003, 14:02
Originally posted by Munin the Raven
But Garrett has very little or no armor and isn't lugging around a heavy mace/hammer or large sword, so he should be able to outrun is enemies.

Thieves are tradtionally known for being fleet of foot as well as their deception and sneakery.;)

What about all the treasure he's carrying, gold, gems and goods can be pretty heavy.

Munin the Raven
22nd Feb 2003, 16:36
True, but I still don't think it compares to 50-60lbs. of armor and a 50-60lb. sword. with a belly full of ale.:D

Danventry
22nd Feb 2003, 17:43
I don't think a Stamina bar would really fit in Thief. Other adventure RPG like Tomb Raider is okay, but Thief? First of all, Garrett is supposed to be stealthy, so having to run for a long time shouldn't even be needed (and you are much faster than guards, so you shouldn't need to run long). And a good mission wouldn't let Garrett get far running around like a mad man. Too many AI would see/hear him.

drunkguard
10th Mar 2003, 19:22
Hi hope you all dont mind me hanging out here, major fan of thief that i am.

I think the stamina bar would not really come in play in thief. with me I only ran in the game when I first started or now when I know a level really well. if you have to run at all you probably got nabed anyway.:p

Shadow Man
15th Mar 2003, 16:28
Originally posted by Munin the Raven
True, but I still don't think it compares to 50-60lbs. of armor and a 50-60lb. sword. with a belly full of ale.:D

Garret has a sword too as well as a bow and over a hundred arrows(sometimes), but the armor would probeblay out weight the gold because it's not like garret goes around with all the treasure in a big sack over his shoulder, does he????

TRoosevelt_26
17th Mar 2003, 16:23
Originally posted by Munin the Raven
I'd really hate having more RPG-like features including being effected by weight and/or bulk and any kind of skill points/levels system.

I used to be opposed to the idea of a stamina bar, until I realized that it wouldn't disable Garrett at all. Garrett is way too slow in Thief II and the only reason he's fast in Thief TDP/Gold is because of the multi-jump. He needs a way to move fast in times of distress or when making a dash for loot, an exit, etc., but if he could constantly sprint it would make the game too easy. So the feature would give Garrett an additional advantage over his enemies without grossly overpowering him. I thought it was a well-used feature in RTCW.

Although a major RPG'er, I agree completely with M√ľnin on this one - and I really can't stomach a stamina bar either. It's just one more thing to remember, and, for my money, it cheapens the game.

Tomb Raider was at its best when it was simple: one set of clothing no underwater roll, no midair twist, no crawl, no swing-around-the-corner, no tightrope-walk, no bloody ingame cutscenes. Just Lara, pistols, a shotgun a pair of magnums and a pair of Mac-10s (they're not UZIs!).

Likewise, Thief is best when it is simple: no scouting orbs, no frogbeast eggs (although these fit and are even begged, to some extent by the plot of Thief II), no robots.

I can see no good coming from a stamina bar, weight limit, loot limit or like manner of things, call me an old fogey or whatnot. ;)

Bat-mite
17th Mar 2003, 18:04
How about one where you are sneaking up behind Benny, and he is staggering, burping, and hiccupping, muttering all kinds of drunken gibberish. When suddenly, just as you are about to blackjack him, he swallows an "Instant Sobriety Potion" that restores his full prowess as a guard and fighter!

Or, instead of using all his loot to buy weapons between missions, Garrett has to save some loot to visit the doctor so as to avoid pneumonia and the plague!

You see, they could make the games more and more difficult in a large variety of ways, but I think they are very fun and playable the way they are. People who want an extra challenge can ghost or perfect thief it. Others can take a more liesurely tack.

For myself, I want new sets, new characters, new gadgets...things that make you "ooo" and "ahh." But I want the essentials of the game to be the same. Don't make it so hard or so "realistic" that it stops being a fun pastime and starts being a headache.

ChangelingJane
21st Mar 2003, 23:30
If anything, I think it'd be fun if some of the guards had limited stamina, as a part of their character. Like, if there was an older guard, or one of the "lazy, donut-eating" variety.

Munin the Raven
22nd Mar 2003, 19:35
Actually, some of the guards in the original Thief missions and in many of the FMs have modified stats. It's quite easy to do in DromEd; you can adjust aggressiveness, hitpoints, speed, and other aspects of behavior.

Whatz His Name
1st Apr 2003, 19:45
Originally posted by Pipa2
... and of course, this would help inventing a new item: the "Warming potion" or something like that, which would increase your body temperature....

They already have warming potions. All you have to do is steal some of Benny's booze. :D

ChangelingJane
3rd Apr 2003, 03:25
Originally posted by Munin the Raven
Actually, some of the guards in the original Thief missions and in many of the FMs have modified stats. It's quite easy to do in DromEd; you can adjust aggressiveness, hitpoints, speed, and other aspects of behavior.

That's true, but none of the effects are immediately recognizeable. I'm talking about actual characters with their own appearance and voiceover personalities. Basically, kinda like how Benny was recognizeable.