View Full Version : Thief XP question No it's not about Lgnt

14th Feb 2003, 19:00
If you already have THIEF (all versions) installed on a 98SE system and use the XP update, is it still necessary to do the reinstall into XP?

If you overwrite the existing OPSYS with the new version will it (XP) pick up and run THIEF without the tweaking?

Munin the Raven
14th Feb 2003, 21:26
I don't know exactly how the XP update works, but from my experience, everytime I've seen XP installed, it needed to reformat the hard drive and wipe out everything on it. I had Windows ME on my current machine and XP Professional had to reformat my drive in order to install.

If you really can simply "update" Windows 98 to XP, I'd still recommend doing a clean installation from scratch.

15th Feb 2003, 19:11
I used to work in a software QA group where we had a $7M lab (under $1M for the PC-type computers) and lots of PC desktops. We NEVER did upgrades. Too often the garbage dragged along eventually would cause instability or erratic behavior. The tweaking in the registry often did not apply to the new OS version and some registry keys that get kept don't even apply to the new OS version (i.e., they are not there for a fresh full install). I never recommend upgrading and always recommend saving all your data files (or export the data if it isn't available separately) onto separate CDs, floppies, Zip disks, or whatever, make sure you can copy those files off that media (verify it is good), and then FDISK, FORMAT, and do a fresh install.

Even if you choose to do an upgrade, many of the 9x-based Windows drivers will not work on NT-based Windows, so download all the Win2K/XP drivers for your devices to get the latest version and get ready to have problems trying to update the drivers. For example, some modems once installed are difficult to disable and remove so you can install their correct driver because their uninstall leaves behind an .inf file and an enumerated device registry key that keeps getting in the way. Also, VXD drivers probably won't run on Windows 2K/XP. You need to upgrade to WDM (Windows Driver Model) drivers. However, with Windows 2K and XP, the WDM functions were expanded so old WDM drivers developed for Win9x/ME/NT4 may still not work; see http://www.microsoft.com/hwdev/driver/wdm/wdm.asp.

Some users just don't have the time to reinstall all their software and replace their data back into the system, so if an upgrade works then go for it. But the time spent in installing Win2K/XP drivers and resolving software problems thereafter usually doesn't save much time, anyway. You could get lucky. Or you could end up taking twice the time, once for the upgrade and then updating drivers and resolving problems, and a second time when you decide to trash the upgrade and do a fresh install. It takes me 2 long evenings to do a fresh OS install and to install all the applications for a total of 18 GB in OS and software apps, and a 3rd short evening to put the data back (99% of my data is on a different physical disk so it really just means I have to configure the apps to look over there for its data).

As far as Thief goes for an update, I can't say for certain that it does a hardware check but it sure seems like it does. When just upgrading my video drivers then sometimes Thief won't work, but reinstalling Thief after making any driver updates to video, sound, DirectX then gets it working. It's almost like it checks what hardware you have and adapts itself to that configuration, yet I haven't seen any files specifically modified to a changed hardware configuration. Changing drivers is equivalent to a hardware change to software that looks at the hardware.

There isn't anything you do to "prep" Thief for the OS upgrade. So you might as well as go for it, but copy your allsaves and saves directories to somewhere other than the OS system partition and/or boot partition, and Darkloader, too. In fact, copy ALL your data files somewhere else. If the XP upgrade works, and if Thief works, then woo hoo you're lucky. Because you were upgrading from 9x-based Windows, Windows XP might replace most drivers with Win2K/XP versions but probably not all, and then many of those drivers are generic Microsoft-built drivers rather than vendor-specific drivers. You'll probably still want to overwrite the drivers by updating them with their latest vendor-specific Win2K/XP versions, especially for the video and the audio.

And if you haven't used Windows NT2/2K/XP before, the concept of it as an "upgrade" from Windows 9x/ME is not accurate. There is some familiarity with the GUI (less so with WinXP) but there is a steep learning curve in understanding user accounts, security, permissions, NTFS, encryption, certificates, yadda yadda yadda. It really isn't an upgrade. It's a conversion.

16th Feb 2003, 01:14
I agree with the above. I would never upgrade an OS because of all the horror stories, and I would never buy an upgrade version. That may be of little help if you already have an upgrade version.

As for the Thief question, I do not know the answer, but I would assume that a reinstall would be required. If you are in that position, however, why not just try it and see if it works? What is there to lose? Here's why I guess a resinstall may be needed. Something must be different about the installation if NT derivatives need the -lgntforce switch. That being the case, it is easy to imagine that Thief installed without the switch would not be transportable.

16th Feb 2003, 08:22
I don't mind using a "upgrade" version to install the software as long as all it requires is just a prior version that does not need to already be installed. For the Windows upgrade, all you have to do is slide in a CD for any prior version of Windows that qualifies for the upgrade. So instead of 1 full version CD, I have 1 upgrade version and one prior version. But I still do a full fresh install of the OS. With applications, usually an upgrade that overwrites a prior version is okay.

17th Feb 2003, 04:15
I bought the WinXP upgrade version quite soon after it came out. I was running 98 before that. I just did the upgrade, and it worked smoother than pudding, and my various Thief setups worked from minute one :). I don't know anything enough to recommend it or not (the above posts seem far more informed than I am), but it worked fine for me, perfectly in fact, and I've had no problems at all since then :D

17th Feb 2003, 06:54
Thanks all. And particularly KOMAG. That is my situation. I have the Upgrade version, and your explanation fits my question exactly.

Thanks again to all.